Part 1 of 2 Parts
The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For
Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By
The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.
We are picking up on Xxxx=s dream, and although I touched on it yesterday, I think we should begin with the section where it is the vision of Christ coming forth in Xxxx=s, the vision of His instruction, His assignment from His Father, and how He will be influencing the world, His public ministry, so we say. The line from Xxxx=s dream says, This service was a resurrection Sunday service. We are talking about the experience of the resurrected Christ, who hopefully is being resurrected in all of us.
There was extreme excitement and rejoicing. Sheila=s comment: There is extreme excitement and rejoicing in heaven when the soul begins to be born again into the kingdom of heaven.
I do not really know whether these are disembodied souls or the incarnated souls that are suffering in the earth today, I want to share an experience with you that I had, one night I had been studying for a very long time, so I was very ascended in the spirit, and I walked from my office across my living room, and I looked at the ceiling, and it was not the ceiling of my living room, it looked like the sky, there were stars in the sky, and many of those stars had a human face in them, and they were suffering, I could see the suffering on their faces, and I knew that I had pierced through into another spiritual realm, and that I saw the souls of people who were watching me, who knew that I was striving in the Lord, you can strive in the Lord to ascend to a place where we will be able to break the bondage on creation.
I do not know whether I was seeing incarnated souls because most of the people on this planet suffer, we are really very blessed in this country, no matter what problems we have, even people on welfare in this country are rich compared to most of the people in other parts of the world where they do not even have shelter. I have been in Africa where people just sleep on the streets, they sleep on stone pillars, you know how you would see a stone fence with a flat top, there are actually people that sleep on those stone fences, I do not know how they do it.
The most poor people in this country are very, very blessed, so I do not know whether these were souls of existing incarnated people that I was seeing in the spirit, or they were disembodied souls, because I still do not have it very clear in my own understanding what happens to a soul when the physical body dies and the soul departs from it, I do believe that, that soul incarnates again, but I do not have any understanding clear enough for me to share with you as to what the experience of that soul is during that transitional period, during the time that they exit the body that has died, and they enter into a new baby to be born, I do not know what that experience is like, but I have reason to believe that it is not pleasant, because a member of this ministry, well there were two sisters who were introduced to this message, one of them embraced it, very completely and is still with us, I think it is fifteen years she has been with us, and actually teaches the message herself, but her sister could not receive the part about the exposure of your sin nature, she could not deal with it, she thought that it was wrong, and so for all intents and purposes rejected the message, and shortly thereafter she contacted cancer and died as a young woman in her forties.
The sister who was in the message started having dreams about the sister who had died, and was convinced that the sister whose physical body had died, because you see our soul is dead, our soul is dead inside this physical body, so when this physical body dies, the soul departs from it, the soul was already dead, and it has some experience in this interim period before it incarnates again. The living sister was convinced that her sister=s soul was trying to get inside of her body with her, and she kept having these dreams where the sister was saying to her, Why did you not tell me, why did you not tell me?
That was an enlightening experience for me because this whole area, I have been praying about it for a long time, about incarnation and what happens after the soul departs from the body. I do not have, like I said, I do not have any theology that I would share with you, or any experience that I could share with you, I just have little bits and pieces that are definitely not complete, but this was real because the sister was calling me up and asking me for prayer, and I did not know what to do, and she was calling me as her pastor, and I just did not know what to do, and to be honest with you, initially it frightened me, so all I could do is pray about it and maybe six months later she came to visit me, and the anointing fell, it was not me, it was beyond my understanding, but the anointing fell, and she received some deliverance, but apparently, the dead sister was trying to get inside of her body and in the dreams, the message was, Why did you not tell me, in other words, I want to get back, it was like trying to get back into the womb, she was trying to get back into this world illegally.
The living sister has a daughter who is also in the ministry, and she too started to be afflicted by her aunt, so we just continue to pray, and the experiences stopped. I told you this whole story to tell you that it appears to me from this story that is an unpleasant experience to be caught between worlds, to be caught between incarnation and reincarnation after the physical body dies, at least according to this experience it is not a pleasant experience, but what that experience is to be disembodied, I do not know.
I told you this whole story to tell you that, after I was high in the spirit, I saw all of these faces, and they were faces in the stars. The Scripture tells us that we are all stars, each one of us is a star, when Christ is in you, you are a star, not that you are a movie star (chuckle), but you are a star in the firmament, what does that mean? It means that if Christ is in you, you have the ability to shine. What does it mean to shine? When Christ is in us, we are the messengers of God, we are the interface, we are the image that people that do not know anything about God can see.
People that know nothing about God but are desiring God, are seeking God, are crying out for help, they do not know where to look, where to go, how to contact Him, we are the stars that shine, we are supposed to be the representatives, the ambassadors of God to the world, and this is why it is such a painful thing for someone who is truly manifesting Christ to see some of the errors and the abuses in the traditional church today, because there are people out there hurting crying out for God, and they go to the church, and they see people, we were having a conversation earlier, people who have the ability to give large sums of money, being given preference over people that do not have that kind of money. This is not an accurate reflection of the nature of Christ.
In many instances, this is not at all uncommon in the church, I have experienced it myself, I have heard horror stories, the one that comes to mind is a married couple that went to a particular church, they got divorced, the man was a man of substance, the woman did not work, she had five children, and he was not supporting her, he was not supporting her or her children, but he was giving large sums of money to the church, and the whole church loved him and they thought he was this wonderful man, and his kids were starving.
The wife who went to the same church, went to the pastor and said, This is the situation, and I do not think you should be holding up my exhusband as this great man because the money is giving you he is robbing from his children, not taking care of his children. The pastor put the woman out of the church.
This is not the reflection of God. It is painful to people, it is painful to me to see something like that. One of my earliest experiences when I was child, as a ten year old child, and in case you do not know it, I am Jewish, my family was secular, and they did not practice their religion at all, but my mother wanted me to have some in her words religious background, I believe it was the Lord moving on her, so she sent me to Hebrew school.
An offer was made to the Hebrew children, the child that attended the most Sabbath services would receive a reward, I went every Saturday, and it was in those services that the Lord touched me, so that was the good that came out of it, but I should have won that prize, it was a 14 carat gold Jewish star, and the Rabbi gave it to the daughter of a man who gave large sums of money to the synagogue, and I was so, I had the spirit of righteousness, everybody that is called to Christ, usually you will find that they have a spirit of righteousness, I was offended, it was not that I did not get the prize, I just knew that it was wrong, and I left my education, I did not understand that I was being prepared for this, so I walked away from an opportunity to be studying the Bible in Hebrew, that was what my class was up to, they were starting with Genesis 1, to be studying it in Hebrew, and I walked away from that.
Today I regret it, because I had no understanding and my parents had no understanding. We are the ambassadors of Christ, the church today is not an accurate reflection of Christ, and therefore it is being taken down. It will either convert, or it will be taken down, and I do not say that with any unkindness, it is just the reality of who we are and what we are called to, the kindness, the mercy, the wisdom and the judgment of Christ, because judgment is the mercy of God.
Correcting our thought, correcting things we are doing wrong is the mercy of God, because the Lord cannot help our situations if we continue to do something that is producing the unhappy situation. Judgment is the mercy of God, it comes to us, it says, Look, I want to heal you, I want to help you, but you are doing this which is contributing to the problem, you let me help you to stop doing that, and I will heal your situation, that is that the judgment of the Lord, when it is ministered accurately, and that is who we are.
The Bible describes this ministry as shining, it is the Spirit of God that shines and He is supposed to be shining through us. We are told in the gospel of John, that a light shined in the darkness, and he was talking about the light that shined through the man Jesus of Nazareth, a light shined in the darkness of this world, and the darkness, the darkness did not consume it. The meaning, I cannot remember the exact King James at the moment, but the correct meaning of that Scripture is that the light shined in the darkness and the darkness did not swallow it up, it continued to shine despite the depth of the darkness, that light that shone through the man Jesus of Nazareth, it could not be put out, that light shone, it could not be swallowed up.
Then the verse goes on to say, but His own people did not embrace that light, why? Because they loved the darkness more than they loved the light. What does that mean? Does it mean that they love to murder, or rob banks? No, I do not believe it means that at all, it means that the people to whom the light was first revealed, and even the people today to whom the light is revealed, frequently prefer the darkness of their carnal mind, to the bright shining light of Christ, because that bright shining light of Christ when it shines through us, it changes our life, and sometimes things that we like to do, we have to give up doing, sometimes things, plans that we have, have to be given up.
I remember the day when I packed up, I use to be a big baker, you know, I loved to bake, I baked my own bread, I baked cookies, I was a big baker, and I could not do everything, I remember the day I packed up all of my baking tools and I gave it to someone in the church and there was a bitter spirit on me, but I knew that I had to choose God over baking. That may sound frivolous to you but it was a big thing to me. I liked to bake, it was very important to me, I could not do everything.
When that light shines, that light divides the goats from the sheep, it separates, it reveals who you are in your innermost being. Are you a person who has been born to follow after Christ or are you not, and the Lord is not condemning people today who are not following after Christ, He is just calling out the people that will follow Him, He is calling out the people who are willing and who desire Him to shine through them, and then we have to pass through and it affects our lives, but that is the condemnation. That is what Saint John said, And this is the condemnation, the loved the darkness, they loved the thoughts of the carnal mind, and the lifestyle of this world more than they desired to pursue Christ.
This condemnation, it is not the condemnation of a human being, it is not a condemnation that says, you are bad, you rejected Christ, you do not desire to follow Him at this time, you are no good, it is not that condemnation, it is a condemnation, the condemnation is that you continue to abide in the darkness of this world. It is the consequence or the fruit of your choice, because everybody in this world is condemned, the whole world is condemned, we are all under a judgment of death, and the light shines and invites you to be delivered from death, and if for whatever reason, you do not choose to follow that light, you abide under the condemnation. You are already under the condemnation, I cannot condemn you, you are already under the condemnation, and so am I, we are all under a judgment of death. If the Lord does not intervene, we will all die, physically die, but that is the condemnation.
This kind of condemnation that comes from the carnal mind, it never comes from the Lord, that is not one of His qualities, it is just not, even when the Lord was talking to Adam after the fall, early in the book of Genesis, He says, and this is what is going to happen to you Adam, and this is what is going to happen to you woman, and this is what is going to happen to you Serpent, it was not like that at all, Jehovah was simply reiterating, restating the law to them, and I believe that, that law was given to Adam before the fall. I believe that when Jehovah put Adam in the garden, He said, Now look, this is what you have to do to survive, and He read him the whole law, which is encapsulated in probably one sentence in the book of Genesis, where Jehovah says to Adam, Keep the garden.
The Hebrew word translated keep means militarily guard the garden. What was the garden? Was it a garden like we have out here? No, the garden was the female aspect of Adam, you might say the ovarian aspect of Adam, that part of Adam that was capable of reproducing itself, and filling the earth with a many membered creation called mankind. Jehovah said to him, Guard those ovaries, guard your virginity, because if you get pregnant by the wrong man, you are going to bring forth an offspring that will not be in my righteous image, it will be corrupt, and it will become subject to the sowing and reaping judgment, your offspring will now become subject to the sowing and reaping judgment, and you will no longer have all of your needs met, your supernatural provision, but you will have to labor and you will be subject to all of the torments of this world which we call hell.
I believe that, that whole explanation, probably much more so than that was given to Adam when he was first put in the garden, guard the garden, guard your life. How many lives have been ruined because young people bring forth a child when they are sixteen, I hear there are nine and ten year old girls having babies today. What happens to your life, do not do it, guard your garden, live your life with your mind, but Adam did not guard his garden. His wife, the woman, was impregnated by the Serpent, and we are the offspring, that offspring. The woman was impregnated by the Serpent. Do you know in the book of Numbers, there is a very interesting passage where it talks about how you prove if a woman committed adultery. It sounds bizarre, I have not really looked it up to see how I would interpret it, but in the King James translation it says, this is how you prove if your wife committed adultery, you have to take her to the priest, and you prepare a particular potion, I do not remember what it is made of, and you force her to drink it, and if her belly swells, you know that she is committing adultery, and you cast her out.
Is anybody familiar with that passage? I want you to know that, that is what happened, the female Adam drank the potion of the Serpent and her belly swelled, and we are the result of it, and we have been proven, because we are the female aspect of Adam, we have been proven to have been in adultery. Our present condition is the result of spiritual adultery and rebellion against the law of God, and every human being born of a woman, if it were possible for them to never do one thing wrong in their lifetime, we are still guilty because of the sins of our ancestor, of spiritual adultery, and rebellion, which is the sin of witchcraft, that is the problem, that is the predicament of mortal humanity, and we are called to be instruments of God=s solution to resurrect, to reinstate the woman who has gone astray.
We are the bridegroom company, if Christ is in you, you are a member of the bridegroom company, and you are sent to shine the light onto the understanding of the woman which is mortal humanity that she might repent and be restored to a life of prosperity and safety, deliverance from hell and death. That is what we are called to, to be a part of this great plan of reinstatement of the wayward woman, the wayward spiritual woman. The Lord has a plan to put an end to the rebellion and the adultery, because the rebellion and the adultery continues to this day in every fallen human being, in our mind, we rebel against God, it is not in our conscious mind, certainly from our unconscious mind, we rebel against God continuously, and we commit spiritual adultery every time we agree with our carnal mind, which is all of the time, because we cannot do anything but, we have inherited our ancestor=s, we have inherited a spiritual condition which is the fruit of our ancestor=s adultery, and our only hope is Christ shining into the darkness of our fallen soul, and reforming back into His image, the righteous image.
The Lord has invited us to be a part of that great work. It does not matter who you are, whether you are male or female, what you do, what your work is in life, it does not matter if you are an intellectual genius or you have trouble reading, it does not matter, He has picked you for whatever reason He has picked you, or He has invited you to be a part of this great work, and He will work with you through the indwelling internalized Christ in you, to equip you to do your part, He will equip you to do your part.
If you are responding to this message, you need to say to Him, What is my part? He will most likely, from everything that I have seen, He looks at you, He evaluates you, of course, He does not have to do that, He already knows, and He will draw upon your talent, whatever your potential in life is, He will take that and use it for His kingdom. It is not likely that He is going to ask you to do something that is alien to you, like I cannot carry a note, I have always had a dream of being musical, I cannot sing a note, I was asked to be quiet in high school choir, I am completely off key and I was not singing next to Xxxx last night because I did not want to chase him away from me, he was too close.
I cannot carry a tune, so the Lord did not use me as a musician, and at one time I was really petitioning Him, banging on heaven=s doors, Lord I want to sing and I want to play an instrument. You know what He did for me? I actually ran up to an evangelist coming to the church saying, Pray for me, give me the gift of music, because I believed and I still believe you can receive that gift by the laying on of hands. We saw in the church that I was raised up in, we saw someone who could not sing or he was so unmusical that the music teacher said to the parents, I cannot take your money, there is nothing I can do for him. He got the gift by the laying on of hands, he could sing and he could play three or four instruments.
I wanted that gift so bad, and the Lord was getting tired of hearing me, because He had no intention of giving it to me, so He moved upon a family in the church, they turned over their whole home to me for a whole evening, and I played that piano, for me it was good, I played a couple of chords, there was such an anointing on me, and I just sat at that piano, and it sounded okay to me, and I sang, it sounded okay to me, and after that whole evening, the Lord said to me, That is it, do not ever ask me again. He said, You are a teacher, you not a musician, and there is only twenty four hours in the day, you cannot do everything. Most of my free time, I do not have any free time, I study, because my desire in my free time is to study, that is my vacation. I have not asked Him since.
He goes to you and He reaches down deep inside of you and He takes what your potentials are, and He enhances them, He uses them for His kingdom. Do not worry about what you are lacking, He has a plan for you, He has a plan for you, He has a place for you, He has a need for you, so you have to really be careful, because it is a human tendency for pride to rise up and say, What could God do with me, I cannot do anything, I cannot do this, just ask Him what He has for you to do, and then ask Him to help you do it, because we are the best He has, we are all He has got, and there is only a few of us.
Remember Gideon, the majority of this people that were following him left, they were fearful, and large numbers, I think five hundred people that witnessed Jesus= resurrection departed from Him, or when He told them, Drink my blood, eat my flesh, all of those large numbers departed from Him. The Lord works with small numbers, we are all that He has got. If you are the one that is called and you recognize that call, just submit to Him, do not worry about it, just submit to Him, we are that shining light. Each one of is a photon, light is made up of many particles called photons and each one of us is a photon, a particle of light, and He wants to shine through us, because He is going to reinstate this fallen woman, He is going to reinstate her, He is going to forgive her for her adultery, we are the illegitimate child, mortal mankind is the illegitimate child that was born of the adultery, that is why He is adopting us, you do not adopt someone that is your own son or your own daughter. We need to be adopted because we are the bastard child of the original creation.
When He adopts us, we cannot stay or keep or remain in the nature of the bastard child, which is the nature of the Serpent. He wants us, He is calling us back, He is receiving us as His own, but we have to be converted into His nature, you cannot bring the Serpent=s nature into His household, and that is the problem, our fallen nature does not really want to be converted, it is squirming and screaming and has all kinds of problems. But we, who are we? We are the personality, and when Christ comes to us, He strengthens us to make the choice if we want to.
Before Christ comes to us, we really do not have the strength to follow Him or to make the decision to follow Him because the only person for lack of a better word, is our carnal nature, that is the old man. The old man is the personality married to the carnal nature. We cannot be leaving that husband, Paul calls Him our husband, we cannot be leaving him because we have no place to go to, but when Christ comes into the household, we now have a place of safety to run to, and Paul says, Act like you are not married to that guy anymore, do not obey his thoughts, do not obey his inclinations, do not obey his attitudes, cleave unto Christ, and cleave unto the attitudes, thoughts, ideas and obedience of Christ. In Christ, we have the ability to be obedient.
Eventually you know, you fake it until you make it. When you start cleaving to the thoughts, attitudes, ideas, and the thinking, the thought process, the rationale of Christ, you start to separate from that carnal mind. You start to separate, because the way you think, that is who you are, the one that you choose, that is who you will be. How you think of yourself, that is who you are. If the Lord tells you that you are Christ, you now have the opportunity to say, Lord I believe you, I believe you or believe that feelings that my carnal mind are giving me, I am not sure, I am confused, everybody goes through that. The reason for this kind of preaching and this kind of teaching is to encourage you to choose with your mind and not to choose with your emotions. We can choose to believe God. I am who God says I am, I am not who you say I am, I am not who Joe blow out in the street says I am, I am not who anybody who disrespects me says I am. I do not care what it looks like, I am who God says I am. There are people who say I cannot preach because I am a woman.
God says I am a preacher. Only a few months ago, I had somebody tell me I should give up this ministry because I am a woman, the ministry is twenty years old, what are you out of your mind. No, God says I am in charge of this ministry, I do not care if you do not like the way I look, I do not care if you do not like my sex. A lot of people did not like my voice, my voice is deeper now, if you hear my early tapes, I sound like a child, on those early tapes, and I actually had people tell me, I cannot listen to your tapes because I do not like your voice. It is up to you, you know, I am a preacher, and I am the person that the Lord raised up to bring forth the doctrine of Christ, and if you want to listen fine, and if you do not want to listen fine, that is between you and God, here I am and I am not moving.
Each one of you, you are who God says you are. If you are the only person in the world who believes that you are called to be Christ, to be a shining light to the world, to be a true accurate reflection of the nature of God. If you are the only one in the world that believes it, if God told it to you, then that is who you are. In due season others will believe it. If our opinion of ourselves is what the people out there say we are, we are believing our shadow, if you can hear it, we are believing our reflection, I do not believe my reflection, I believe the one who sent me, the one who established me.
We have to choose with our mind, and that is the whole purpose of this kind of preaching, to encourage you to choose with your mind, do not follow after your emotions, your old man is in your emotions, God, Christ is in your rational mind, your rational mind of Christ. He will speak to you, He does not drive you, He does not pressure you, He does not control you, He talks to you, He encourages you, and He strengthens you with His word and with His life, and you choose, if you choose to follow Christ, He will get your through.
It may be tough and rough going for a while, but He will get you through, with your mind, you hang on with your mind. If you follow your emotions especially if you become empathetic, we were talking about this, this morning, if you start to experience the feelings of Christ, Christ is severely persecuted in this world, if you start to experience the feelings of Christ, and you follow after the feelings, it could be painful. You will not prosper, so the Lord is training us to do as a result of our mind.
It is very common in a meeting like this, you are all here except one person is missing, Satan will get you in your emotions, she will stir up a fight, she will do something to upset you, and I am certainly not criticizing the person, the person that is not here, I am just giving you all the information, and then you have a choice, Am I going to go to that meeting because I know I wanted to go, not only did the Lord tell me to go, I know I wanted to go, and now I am all upset, something happened in my life that upset me, and I am going to follow after my emotions and not go.
We have to grow up out of that, and again, please, I am not criticizing the young lady, maybe you will talk to her after I leave, somebody will get an opportunity to talk to her, we cannot follow after our emotions. If God told you to do something, if you set your mind to do something, you follow through no matter what you are feeling, there could be a storm raging in your heart, and you just do it. The Lord told me that the way I express that is that I have break Satan=s back, she cannot stop me. Satan first will try to stop you with pain, she will cause pain in your life, she might make one person sick, she will give you physical pain, she will cause emotional upheaval in your life, if she can control you with pain, she will do it, if she cannot control you with pain, and I have gone, because I was so physically ill, this is my background, that I was so physically ill for so long, I would go to church half dead, I was in a church, and I thank God for that, where, it was a deliverance church and all of this was understood, I have been in church where I took my beach chair to church because I was so ill that I could not sit up in a chair like this, so I took my beach chair to church and put it in a reclining position and I sat in the service. I have been in services where I was laying on the floor. Satan could not keep me out of church.
She had to put me in the hospital, I mean I had to be in the hospital, really incapacitated, she could not keep me out of church. It was this attitude that lent towards my being healed. If she cannot control you with pain, I think I got it backwards, I am sorry, first she will try to control you with pleasure, well we were talking about this earlier, it is a nice day out, I do not know if I want to go to church. I have something better to do, I really wanted to see that movie, or that program on tv. That is how she starts with the young Christians, and when you overcome that, then she tries to control you with pain, sorry I got it backwards. The bottom line is that Satan is trying to control you, Christ is not in your emotions, He is in your mind, He is in your mind.
When you set your mind to do what you believe He told you to do, and if you take this attitude that nothing can stop you, the opposition to your serving God gets weaker and weaker and weaker because Satan starts to give up.
COMMENT: That makes sense because I go so many headaches yesterday before I came, and then this morning I had another one, so it is that pain, it makes sense.
COMMENT: It was this morning about 6 or 7 or so, and I just had a terrible night of sleep and dreaming and stuff, but I just happen to wake up this morning early and I just prayed for Xxxx and within five seconds, praying for her headache, I had a severe headache, but her headache is gone so, (people laughing).
PASTOR VITALE: Christ is being resurrected in you. Who is Christ, how can He be resurrected in you, to say that He is resurrected in you, He must already be there. We are all born with Christ, only He is dead. Christ is a Greek word that mean the anointed one, and in each age, God has an anointed one. The anointed one of the age of innocence, I believe in mentioned this yesterday, was Adam before the fall. Adam before the fall was the Christ of the age of that age. He died, and he broke in to many pieces, and each one of those pieces fell down into the earth and became covered over with earth, and that is us.
Each human being is that dead piece of the Christ of the age of innocence that fell down was covered over, buried under the earth. We are spiritually buried under the earth. The doctrine of Christ says that the personal name of that root in you is Abel. Cain is the earth, and Abel is the dead sea. Abel is dead, Cain killed him and buried him under his own earth, they were buried under the earth. The Christ that is being resurrected in you is Abel. If you have any objection to that name or that word, or you hear it a different way, please do not get hung up on names, the Lord has told me that it is Abel, it helps me to present this message to you to him a personal name, but if you have any objection to it at all, what you need to understand or to pray about, is there is a dead root in you, a root, a dead root of the Adam who is glorious in the day of innocence, because only that which came down from heaven can go back up to heaven. Every human being has a potential to go back up to heaven. Animals do not have this root, animals are formed of the spiritual earth only.
We have this root that has to be resurrected, and the way it is resurrected is that the glorious seed, or the seed of the glorious Jesus Christ, joins to Abel, kisses, the parable is kisses Abel, awakens him from the dead and strengthens him to rise up out of the ground and throw off the earth that came and buried him under, that is the resurrection of Christ in you, that is who Christ is. This is really important because there is a whole movement in the spiritual community today, that teaches that the Christ consciousness is in you, everybody has the Christ consciousness and Christ does not have to be resurrected in you. The Christ consciousness is a false Christ because Christ is dead, Abel in all of us is dead until the seed of the glorified Jesus Christ quickens Him. The Christ that you are born with that is conscious is the counterfeit Abel. Who would the counterfeit Abel be? Who is the other side of Abel? Cain. It is Cain, and Cain actually is the man of sin that is sitting in the temple of God calling himself God.
It is Cain, and Cain is just the end of a long line of an extended family, Cain is connected to Leviathan, who is connected to Satan, who is connected to the Dragon, who is connected to the Serpent, I may have the right order there, it is a whole line, just like a root. You have a dandelion in your back yard, and you see the flower, do you get dandelions here? Okay (laughing), you try to dig up a dandelion, and that root goes really deep, so the flower that you see, this conscious is immediate personality that you see. It is just the surface of a deep root that goes deep into the spiritual plane, and the human personality is a manifestation of Cain that is backed up by the spiritual strength of her whole family line.
That is why Abel cannot stand up, until Christ, the seed of the glorified Jesus Christ joins with Him, and the seed of the glorified Jesus Christ has attached to Him, the seed has attached to Him, the glorified Jesus Christ, Elijah, Moses, the archangel Michael, and the whole family line, that whole root, so then it becomes a warfare between Cain and Abel, both of them fully strengthened by spiritual roots going way deep into your spiritual history, it is a warfare, who is going to possess the vessel, who is going to possess you, and who is going to possess me. We as the personality, our choice, it is more than significant, but we cannot choose, if we do not understand what we are up against, because Satan is a deceiver, and Cain comes from Satan=s household, and that whole household is identified with witchcraft, and witchcraft and witchcraft is identified with seduction and seduction is identified with deception.
The household that is occupying humanity, that Paul calls that man of sin, in your vessel, they are a squatter, we belong to the Lord Jesus Christ, and He is come to free us from the grip of this man of sin, of this squatter, and the way He is freeing us is that He is enlightening our mind and He is enabling us to tell the difference between the squatter and the real king. Because we are so, all of humanity, we are literally possessed of this carnal mind, we tend to think as a default, that the manifestation of the carnal mind is Christ, the carnal mind gets it backwards, so we have to have our mind renewed so that we can recognize who the Christ really is because the average person decides that they think they are Christ, and that the other guy must not be Christ, and this is what is going on through the whole church.
The Scripture says, Christ came to His own and they knew Him not, why? Because they thought they were Christ. The Pharisees thought they were Christ, so when Jesus came to them, or Jesus of Nazareth came, telling them by His behavior that they were not Christ, they said, Who do you think you are? And that is why He said to them, Look, you are just vipers. He was not insulting them. He said, You are the offspring of the Serpent, I am the real mcCoy, you have got it backwards. So it is with this message, I have had people say to me, You think you are right and the whole church is wrong? Absolutely, absolutely. I am right and the whole church is wrong. You are not a reflection of the living God, your doctrine is not a reflection of the living God, your behavior is not a reflection of the living God, your choices are not a reflection of the mind of God, you are the squatter, I am the real thing.
This message and the power of God is given to you to help you, to enlighten you, that you should be able to distinguish between Christ and your carnal mind, because if you cannot distinguish between Christ and your carnal mind, you are dead at that level, if you cannot distinguish between the two, you will believe that the carnal mind is the mind of Christ, because we are all in a deception, all of humanity is deceived.
That is why the Scripture says that the five fold ministry is sent to equip the saints. That is not happening.
One of the first messages that I ever preached was that, the church that is out there today, is not the real church, and this is not to put anybody down, I believe that is what the Scripture teaches, it is not the real church. It is one of the earliest messages, I think the name of it is The End Of The Commandment Is Godliness. It is does not matter what kind of gifts you have, are you godly, is your behavior godly, is your thought process godly, are your motives godly, do you desire godliness, or do you desire to be a great prophet? Hopefully we desire godliness, that is the sign of the true church, not how much doctrine you know, not how many gifts you manifest, but do you desire godliness. That is the sign that Christ is in you.
The true church is coming forth, we are coming out of the fore runner, if I wanted to be unkind, I would call it the counterfeit church, which is the truth, but I will be kind, it is the fore runner church, because the people in the church, they think they are doing the right thing, and I do not want it to sound like I am against these people, because they are just people, we are all just in the same boat, we are all fallen, some of maybe a little more enlightened than others, but we are all dead. Our soul is dead. The Scripture says, when once the Lord joins His Spirit to you, you are alive this day, but our spirit is alive, our soul is still dead. What we talk about is the salvation of the soul.
I mentioned this last night. We have life today because the Spirit of the Lord has joined Himself to us, but our soul is still dead and we are trying to get that saved, and our physical body is dead, because you cannot kill life, you see. Jesus said, No one can take my life. Why could He say that? Because He was alive, He was fully alive, you cannot kill life, you can only kill somebody that is already dead. If you look in the Hebrew, Jehovah says to Adam in the book of Genesis, And now dying you shall die, not just that you die and you are going to be dead, but it is a process, dying you shall die, shall continue to die over and over and over again, because you are dead. If you are truly alive, you just live eternally. If you dead, you die over and over and over again, from generation to generation, dying you shall die, you keep dying.
The experience is death, your foundation is death and therefore you continue to experience death, you continue to experience what you are.
If you are alive as Jesus of Nazareth was, if you are alive, you continue to experience life and He is still alive. But we died, in Adam all died, and so we continue to experience death, we live for a season and we die. Now, since Jesus of Nazareth, we have a company of people whose spirit has been made alive. First, the first layer, our spirit has been made alive, and now we are trying to get our soul which is our personality preserved. Why would we want to preserve our personality? Because I do not know about you, but I have spent twenty one years, my whole life, you know, studying, working, working my fingers to the bone, and I am not asking for any metal, that is who I am, I just work all of the time, I just want this revelation all of the time, I am seeking God all of the time.
Do I really want to pass out of this world and start all over again as a little baby? I really do not, I want this soul preserved. Who knows what we would be, as we begin to overcome death and not die, and we retain all of our experiences, all of the knowledge that we have gained, all of the wisdom we gained just from living life, it is not life, but just from experiencing this existence, and experiencing all of the problems that we have solved, and we grow and we mature, can you imagine three, four, five, six, seven hundred years of experience? Just look at yourself compared to when you were twenty years old, you are much more mature, you were talking about your experiences earlier, we have grown, we have matured, can you imagine what we would be like at five hundred years old, of overcoming learning experiences? We would be great compared to what we are today. We would be the great ones in the earth, able to help those who have only lived a few years.
Experience is very valuable, living life is very valuable. This is why I want my soul to be saved, I want to continue on, I want to see who I would be in Christ, can you imagine twenty one now, and after five hundred years what I would be like? That is a joke. It would be incredible, that is the reason I do not want to die, and I really believe that it is that motive for wanting to live that puts me in the running, I hope to enter in to immortality, I hope that I will not die, and my motive for wanting to not die is my number one reason to believe that I just might make it.
I went through a period of time where it had to be Christ in me just crying out to God, it went on for days, Oh, God, I cannot die, I just cannot die, all that I have been through to get to where I am now, all of the trials and the tribulations that I have overcome, not dying, overcoming death three times, all of the things that you showed me in my personality that were wrong and needed to be corrected, all of the changes that I have made, all that I have learned, you cannot let me die, I have just got to go on. That is my hope.
If you want to live, I do not know, I think if you wanted to live to raise your family, the Lord would honor that, but you need understand that He has a plan of salvation for humanity, and when we line up our goals in life with His goals, He is most likely to answer our prayers. I am really in the running because He should want me to live, to train other teachers, to teach you all, to share with you whatever I can share with you. My life is a part of His plan, so I have got a real crack at it, there is a real chance that He will do that, because my goal lines up with His goal, maybe He will do it.
Just like someone going to, a man with a big corporation or a woman with a big corporation saying, I need a job. The employer says to the person, What can you do for me, what can you do for me? I have money, I have enough money to hire another employee, you tell me what you can do for me and convince me that you are worth it and I will give you the job. When we convince the Lord that it would be in His best interest to keep us alive, we have reason to hope that we will overcome death. That is the way you do it. Does anybody have any questions or comments before I go on?
This is the resurrection of Christ in you, it was a resurrection Sunday service. There was extreme excitement and rejoicing, all of the oppressed souls of the creation are jumping for joy, plus the entities and the aspects of God, and the angels in heaven, everybody wants to see the woman restored. Great celebration parading through tall hallways with singing and banners. My comment is: This sentence, the celebrating began, parading through these tall hallways with singing and banners, this brings to my mind David dancing as the Ark entered Jerusalem.
I think I told you last night, I do not particularly believe, it is not my opinion that David was dancing in the street, but that his spirit was extremely stimulated, and he became very highly spiritual as a result of his exposure to Ark. That whole context of Michael his wife despising him, I have a whole message on this, that I do not believe that she despised him because he was physically dancing in the street.
The truth of the Scripture if you pursue it, is that Michael was Saul=s daughter, and Michael and David were separated when David went in to exile and Saul gave Michael to another husband. David really did not, I could not find anything in the Scripture that indicated that he loved this woman, and you have to realize that it was a different society, people did not necessarily, they did not get married for love in those days, marriage was a contract, Saul said, I will give you my daughter, so the young lady she went and she married David because her father said you have to marry him. It was a completely different society than it was today.
We are told that Michael loved David, but David really did not appreciate her, and he took other wives and then after David came into his kingdom, he wanted Michael back, now he did not want her because he loved her, the Scripture is very clear, he said, I want my property back. That was my wife, Saul had no right to take and give her to another man, and now I am in power and I want her back. He did not care that she had another husband.
How do I know she had another husband? The Scripture says she had another husband and he cried, the husband cried the whole time the guard was forcing her to return to David, who had like four or five other wives. I may be wrong about that number, but he had multiple wives already, this was not an act of love, it was an act of I believe abuse of power. I believe that although the Scripture does not say so, she must have had children, everybody had children in those days, when you got married, you had children. She left her husband, she left her kids, the husband was crying the whole time, and David did not care, and Michael despised David, she despised him. I do have a message where I go into that.
COMMENT: That message is called, they loved him, the people loved him, God loved him, and he was very wicked.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, David was a very wicked man, he did a lot of very wicked things. The Lord loved him, the Scripture tells us that the Lord loved him because he did everything, David, he did everything that Lord ever told him to do with one exception, and that is in the matter of Uriah the Hittite. The Lord never told him to kill Bethsheba=s wife, but that is a very interesting, that is very interesting, you know you really have to think about these Scriptures, listen to that, David did everything the Lord told him to do except the Lord did not tell him to kill Uriah. By reverse inference, what did that say about David=s behavior with Bethsheba? Do you hear what I am saying. David did everything the Lord told him to do, except the Lord never told him to kill Uriah the Hittite. Did the Lord tell him or not tell him to take another man=s wife, Bethsheba? David did everything the Lord told him to do except in the matter of Uriah the Hittite, he should not have killed Uriah.
What about taking Uriah=s wife, and how come out of all of the wives and the children that David had, the son who was God ordained to inherit the throne came from that union? The union of David and Bethsheba, the stolen wife, think about it. This Bible is very interesting, you have to ask questions, it is very interesting.
COMMENT: I heard the other day from someone, God is not afraid of your questions.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, God is not afraid of your questions. We are told in the dream, this was a pretty mild fellowship without much of an outward show. Again, that I believe is referring to Xxxx=s outward appearance and she is being changed from the inside out. I guess we did this yesterday, I told you about that Star Trek episode where that alien came into the plane and started transmuting all of the stone and the decorations and just by way of review, transmutation of matter, in theory would mean, the ability to take a solid piece of material, of furniture like this, and break it down into its subatomic particles, and then reform the subatomic particles so that this table was converted into that couch, that is the principle of transmutation of matter.
It is also called, it can also be called a form of alchemy, that is an ancient theory anyway, we do not know that it really existed, that it existed in medieval times, the concept of alchemy, the ability to take base metal, like led, and transmute it, melt it, and melt it to the point that you could convert it into gold, not just melt led so that you have molten led, but to break it down into its spiritual parts, so completely that it could be reformed, the combinations.
Everything that we have here is just a combination of atoms, so if let us say to simplify this, this table is made up of four atoms, one, two, three, four, and they are combined in that order, one, two, three, four, and I have the ability to melt this table down into its component parts, and I could change the order of one, two, three, four, into one, four, two, three, when it took form again, it would not be a table, because one, four, two, three is a code for a different kind of object, one, two, three, four, is the code that would produce this table. It is called alchemy. There is alchemy of metals, there is alchemy of spiritual powers.
Martial artists practice spiritual alchemy, they have the ability to take the energy from the different parts of their body. I do not understand it completely, but this is the best I understand it. Let us say, well we do have energy in every part of our body, and each one of our organs have a certain measure of energy. These martial artists, they have the ability to draw the energy from one organ, and this I am going to make up just by way of example, I do not know if it is accurate, they have the ability to take energy from their spleen and transfer it into their lungs and their lungs become supernaturally strong, or they have the ability to take the energy from their organs and transfer it into their arms, and that is how they can break a piece of stone like this with their hand, because it is supernatural energy coming out of their hand, and they transmute it, they gather up this energy by the power of their mind, energy from all parts of their body, and it goes into their punch or karate chop, it becomes supernatural, supernatural power.
If you watch any of these martial arts movies, in these extreme cases, they do not even touch you to kill you, they kill from over here, they look at you, and they go, and you strangle. It is a level of witchcraft, it is mind power.
COMMENT: That reminds me of a teacher that I met at college, she remembers the very day it happened, she used to be a missionary, and she was driving down the road and she just happened to look over and I think it was in South America, and she saw a witch doctor, a very powerful witch doctor, she said, just by looking at him, she knew he was putting a curse on her, and well it did not kill her, but it put enough of a sickness on her to where she could not be a missionary any longer, she had to stay in the United States because the disease that she had, she needed medical treatment consistently. But just what you are saying there, just looking at it, an altering something, a gene of some sort, one, two, three, to one, four, two, three, whatever, it is amazing.
PASTOR VITALE: It is real, you see, we need to know this because as we come into our power, power that comes to us in righteousness, we will be dealing with these kinds of things, the sons of God are the policemen of the world. When witchcraft starts to cover the earth, the police are not going to be able to help you. Right now today there are incidences in Nigeria for example, there are large, there is a large Moslem community, and large Christian community. The Moslems would like the government, they would like the whole country to be under the Moslem law, if you steal they cut your hand off, an enforced Islam, that is what they would like to do.
In the east, they are actually events of fighting, the Christians fight with the Moslems, and there have been incidents of the Nigerians in that area, I think they still live in, I do not know if they still live in straw huts or not, but anyway, there houses were burning down, let me say that, houses burning down, and everybody knows that the people whose houses burn, the Moslems and the police, they know the houses are igniting as the result of the Moslem prayer, and nobody can do anything about it. There is no justice, no defense, no help, for people who are the victims of that kind of witchcraft. What are you going to do, arrest the people, how do prove that they did anything.
Yet on the other hand, there are people in federal prison today, I am told, who are there because they have murdered with their mind, and I was really surprised to find that out, that there are federal laws that deal with that, that it is recognized that it was happening on Indian reservations, and the result of it was that the law was written into the federal roster.
I was speaking to an Indian about it, and I said, Well how do they prove you know that this person you know is responsible? Because when you die by witchcraft, usually you suffocate or you have a heart attack, they squeeze your heart. That is what they do, in their own house, they squeeze your heart, and you die. I was speaking to this Indian and I said, How do they prove that by the laws of this land? At that point, he would not tell me, a veil came down over his eyes and he would not talk to me anymore, but he said that there were people in federal prison today for murdering with their mind. It is a known thing, you see, but we are naive here in the west, it is a known thing in other parts of the world, that it takes place, and it is possible that it can be done, and as lawlessness covers the land, the sons of God will be the only source of true justice.
You know what is interesting about this. You may see movies about this, and you think this is folklore, you think it is not true, the Legend of the Ninjas, the Japanese heros, who saved the people that are suffering, the Kung Fu, there was a series called Kung Fu on tv, maybe twenty years ago, where the Chinese priest comes and he would be the defender of the innocent, the one that is being afflicted, we see a natural example of it, with this concept of organized crime. They threaten people, and go into small business men and say, You have to pay me to protect yourself, you have to pay me so that I do not beat you up or ruin your business, you know that kind of protection. It is very hard you know, a lot of store owners will not even go to the police because they will just be killed or their families will be killed, this kind intimidation from organized crime, it is going to come to a point that there is going to be such a degree of witchcraft operating in this nation that the sons of God will be the only source of protection for people, because I do not know how I got on this subject but I will just go with the Spirit.
This thing is real, I personally knew a woman, who had someone knock on her door and said to her, We are giving you a free sample of this laundry detergent, would you use it in your laundry and we will come back in a few weeks and ask you to answer a few questions? She used the laundry detergent, and her husband got up and left the house with another woman, moved out and moved in with another woman. She was a South American woman, and she knew that it was witchcraft and that it was directly related to that laundry detergent, that she put in her laundry, and her mother who came from South America, the answer of her mother was to go to another witch to counteract that curse. That is the, see the point that I am trying to make, I do not think I am getting there, is if you go into these nations where this kind of witchcraft is practiced as a matter of course, everybody knows about it, and if you get cursed, you go to a stronger witch who is going to break the curse, this is spiritual violence that exist in these countries, it is called good against evil.
I do not know if any of you people here see movies, but there is a theme coming out of Hollywood right now, and there are movies coming out that do not honor Christ, but the themes are good against evil, even that things, like that movie that Mel Gibson was in, The Gladiator, or something like that, several movies like that, there is nothing about God in it, it is just good against evil, and it is the tearing down of this righteousness of Christ in this society, you see Christ is above good and evil.
He is above the two which is fighting with each other, He is righteousness, His power comes out of doing what is right, not who is the stronger one, good against evil, the one who is more powerful wins, with Christ, no righteousness wins, it does not matter how powerful you are, He is the defender of the widow and the orphan, he is the defender of the victim, our righteous Jesus Christ, He is the defender of the victim, the one who is being afflicted, the one who cannot defend Himself, we are the defenders of the innocent.
This situation of witchcraft exists all over the world except in the west, but as the west withdraws from Christ, this level of witchcraft is starting to descend on this nation. Does anybody not understand what I am saying? Now it used to be years ago, that if you were a tea leaf reader and you opened a shop and said, I am going to read your cards, or read you tea leaves, in New York anyway, they arrested you, I do not know how it was here in Minnesota, but they arrested you in New York, you could not put up a plaque, do you have that around here, people putting up signs saying, I am going to read your...
COMMENT: Tarot cards.
PASTOR VITALE: Tarot cards, stuff like that. It used to be illegal in New York, they would lock you up, you could not put out your shingle, because that kind of, well what is wrong with somebody reading your palm or reading your tea leaves? A lot of people that use it to victimize the people that they read for. Who goes to have their tea leaves read? Usually people that have a problem, what is going to happen to my marriage? What is going to happen with my finances? My mother is sick, is she going to live? Go the tea leaf reader. There are a lot of unscrupulous people using that authority, sitting there having the ability to say to that person, Well your mother is going to be okay, just give me a hundred dollar bill and come back next week, and I will pray for her and she will be okay. It is open door for victimization, and it was illegal in New York for the longest time. But all of these barriers are coming down, because Christ, the presence of Christ is dissolving, and the righteousness of Christ is dissolving, and because the righteousness of Christ is dissolving, the battle between good and evil is coming to the forefront.
The righteousness of Jesus Christ kept down repressed the battle between good and evil, where only the stronger one prevailed, not the right one, the stronger one prevailed. That was repressed because the righteousness of Christ was repressing it, and as He dissolves, this, it is a spiritual jungle. In civilized society, the strongest one does not win. In civilized society, the righteousness wins, and we are losing that, and you can see reflected in the movies, you can see it reflected on the tv, if you have eyes to see, that is what is going on, spirituality without Christ, and good against evil, and with good against evil, the good does not always win, more often than not, the evil wins, because evil is stronger than good. That is in the Bible, evil is stronger than good.
We, the sons of God, of course we are spiritual babies right now, we do no have that kind of, we have some power, but we do not have the power that I am talking about, but that is our potential to grow into that level of power, so that we can come in and defend the victim, that is the Scripture, this is true religion, the defense of the widow and the orphan and the provision for the innocent.
That is what you are called to, that is what He wants to do in us. It is not a gift that He can give us though, you do not get it by the laying on of hands. This structure of righteousness that I talked about last night, has to be built in us, it has to come out of our nature, it has to come out of our nature, and in order to build this righteous nature in us, we have to be willing to give up our unrighteous nature, and we all have an unrighteous nature because we were born, inheriting the nature of our, the fallen nature of our ancestor.
For this reason, we have to sacrifice our pride, Leviathan. We sacrifice, see the church world will tell you that Jesus died in your place, He did not die in your place, and the Lord does not require bloodletting, that message in the church is a complete abomination that God the Father sacrificed Jesus and wanted to see Him bleed to death so that we can live, it is just an abomination, it is absolutely untrue.
The sacrifice of Jesus Christ gave us, reestablished our entrance or our ability to enter into the holy tabernacle, the spiritual tabernacle where God is. The sacrifice of Jesus who is now the mediator, Christ Jesus, He is the mediator, through Him we have access to the Father, we have access to the throne room of God, but everyone that comes to God has to come with a sacrifice. We have to come with out own sacrifice, and what sacrifice, what could we possibly give God? What could we possibly give God? Our sin nature.
Everyone comes with a sacrifice, we come with out sin nature on a plate, saying Lord, it is yours, kill, chop it, boil it, burn it, root it out, rip it up, root it out, it is yours. We say that knowing and believing that He is going to replace it with His righteous nature. Jesus did not die in our place, the message in the church is death, it is the Serpent=s message, it is unbelievable, the more I learn, the more amazed I am, the message in the church, aside from the grace of God, and the forgiveness of sins which is obviously the truth, they do not get, that is the end of it, everything after that, it is false doctrine.
We come with our own sin nature, saying, Here it is Lord, take it. Everyone brings his own sacrifice. Did you have something you wanted to say?
COMMENT: That verse that I shared with you, yesterday that was in 2 John, it says, He who says he abides in Him, ought to himself also walk just as He walked. If Christ is in you, we are to walk as He walked. He explained to me how it is not you walk like He walked, but you have the nature of Christ in you.
PASTOR VITALE: Right, it is nothing that you consciously do. Just like, we do not consciously sin, anybody that is in this room, you are all seeking God, nobody would consciously set their mind to go out and sin, but it is a part of our nature, we sin because we have an inherited sin nature.
The Lord wants to rip that up, rip it out, root it out, which Xxxx just discovered is the meaning of Armageddon, the final battle is the uprooting and the ripping out of our sin nature, so that we can have His righteous nature, replace it so that we, without thinking, unconsciously we do righteousness.
Our whole life today involves keeping sin underfoot, recognizing sin in our mind and in our heart, and saying, I reject you, I hate you, get down under my feet, that is a labor, that is a tiring spiritual labor, it is only temporary, the Lord wants to change our nature so that we know, because it is our nature that we are forcing down under Christ, it is our sin nature that we are forcing down under Christ. When that sin nature is ripped up and rooted out, we will naturally, automatically do righteousness, and the law will lose its power over us, so it will be the end of the sowing and reaping judgment in our life, because there is no law against a righteous man.
That is what this is all about, people are not even being told the truth. Being told you answer an altar call and then you go to heaven, is just complete lie, Jesus did not die in your place, Jesus is, and not even His death, but His resurrection has given us access to the throne room of God and then you go with your sin nature on a platter.
I will tell you something, after Jesus was crucified, and Peter said, I go a fishing. I have news for you, Peter was not going, that did not mean that he was going on a boat fishing, he meant now Peter knew the doctrine of Christ, he said, Wow, now that Jesus is going to be resurrected, I will be able to fish for Leviathan, he said, I go a fishing.
I have heard it preached that Peter was so devastated that Jesus was crucified that he was going back to his previous employment. No, he said, Well here is the resurrection, and I am going fishing for Leviathan, going to eat him for dinner. Leviathan, the judgment for Leviathan is that Leviathan will be boiled, Leviathan is the Serpent that swims in the sea, the sea symbolizes Satan, and Leviathan, and Satan=s judgment is that she will be boiled unto distillation, so Leviathan is going to be cooked and he is the food, Leviathan is the food for the high priest of God which is the glorified Jesus Christ will consume him.
Christ in you, more likely Christ Jesus will be consuming Leviathan in you, and that is the internal change that begins with the seed, and that is what this dream is all about, it is that seed, that living seed is the beginning of the this whole process for you. Our old man sees that seed of Christ as a virus coming in to literally destroy his kingdom, because each one of was, or to whatever degree we still are a kingdom for the old man, the man of sin that is sitting, he is not coming from out there somewhere and sitting in our temple, he is already there, we are born with that man of sin, sitting in the temple of God calling himself God, that is why you have to raise up your children.
Children naturally default to doing ungodly things, they misbehave, you have to teach your children to be civilized, we have to civilize our children, otherwise they hit their sisters, they hurt each other, they will break the furniture in the house, we have to raise up our children to teach them to respect themselves and to respect other people and obey the laws of civilization, because we are all born with a sin nature, we default to destruction. It is that sin nature that has to be sacrificed.
Jesus did not do that for you, what He did was make the power for you to do it available to you, the power to sacrifice your sin nature, was imparted to you by the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ. What did He sacrifice? He gave up, well, there is different levels, you could say He gave up His immortal existence in this world, but even more than that, His sacrifice was, that He incarnated, there was a righteous spirit that incarnated in a human baby, a righteous spirit that had the liberty of all of the heavenlies, and He constricted Himself, this righteous spirit, He constricted Himself, funneled Himself down and put Himself inside of a human baby which was jail for that righteous spirit, that righteous spirit put Himself in jail, put Himself inside of an animal nature, which to an exalted spirit is a horror, can you hear this?
Therefore, we have the typical example, the Scripture says, And the baby Jesus was born and Mary laid Him in a manger with the animals. Well the spirit that incarnated in the baby Jesus was incarnated in a stable, He was incarnated in a, when He opened his eyes, He was in a stable, He was locked up in this physical body, it is a nightmare for Him, He is in jail, that is the sacrifice He made for us, and He is subject to all of our sins, our sin nature, they wound Him. We are told righteous Lot was wounded all of the day long by the sins of the Sodomites. Christ in you is wounded, every time you sin, in thought, in attitude, it is like putting a knife in Him, and as you get closer and closer to Jesus, and become more and more empathetic, you feel that pain, and then once you feel the pain, you are now in a position where you can forgive the person, how can you forgive somebody when they have not done anything to you.
Jesus said, whoever=s sins you forgive, will be forgiven, and whoever=s sins you do not forgive, will not be forgiven. Well it is very easy to say to everybody, I forgive all your sin world, I forgive all your sins. What do you do when someone hurts you, when someone puts a knife in you, when someone disappoints you, when someone betrays you, when everything in you rises up to retaliate against them. Are you forgiving them then? That is when it counts, you see, when they hurt you, when they wound you, when they steal from you, when they deprive you and they hurt your kids, are you forgiving their sins? That is when we have the ability to forgive their sins.
The Scripture says we are the saviors of the world, we are saviors coming out of Mount Zion, that is what the prophet said, but we have to be trained up, this is the beginning of the training, making you aware of what you are in school for, that is the beginning so that you can agree with the process, because the Lord is not knocking you down, and forcing this on you, He is just not.
It is the same message that He gave to Gideon, if you are not interested, go home, there is no condemnation, you do not want it, go home, it is okay, do not stay here and mess it up for everybody else, it is okay, do not stay here and be a negative influence. It is okay, go home, there is no condemnation, there is not going to be any negative consequence for you, just be honest, if you do not want it go home, because it is hard enough, it is a hard enough lifestyle without people undermining us.
COMMENT: A couple of things, in one of your messages you said that, there was a passage that said that Christ died for our sins, and then you said, No that is not right, Christ died because of our sins, and when you look at the churches that is one of the major problems of the churches today is they do not separate Jesus of Nazareth from Christ, the two different, carnal, being born of a carnal mind, woman. With that said, it was kind of like what Xxxx was saying when she was talking to a coworker, well have you ever looked, Christ, Christ Jesus, Jesus Christ, all of these different names, when you look in Scripture, and it says that God made Jesus both Lord and Christ. What is, is the Lord aspect would Kurios in Greek is that correct? Is that the Greek? Yes? So what would, we know that Christ was formed completely to Jesus, fused to Jesus, the Lord part would be Father?
PASTOR VITALE: Well no, my studies revealed that, that word Kurios, the Greek word Jesus had now been named Kurios, Lord and Christ, it means controller. I believe what it means is that now that He is glorified, He can enter into our spiritual being as our ability to control our sin nature, He is our controller, He is the one that is going to bring us into righteousness because it is His power that is going to enable us to stop sinning. We have to fall out of agreement with that sin, and then His power will choke it off in our life, He is the controller. He is the Lord, He is the controller of our sin nature and He is also Christ, the source of the control.
COMMENT: But in what we see really there the Lord of a king is just like one of the lords right? I mean that is where I think that I can get confused too the lord is not the king, you know, I do not know.
PASTOR VITALE: I am not sure what you mean.
COMMENT: Were you saying king of kings and Lord of lords? Is that what you were kind of separating the king and lord.
COMMENT: Well like we have kings, well not in the United States, but they have a king, but then there are lords underneath them.
COMMENT: Like in Great Britain, there have lords and kings.
PASTOR VITALE: I do not know how to relate it to that, but I have studied this issue and I believe that, that is what it means. That He is now become the controller, and the source of the control.
COMMENT: What would be the king aspect of Jesus?
PASTOR VITALE: The king, Christ in us is the king of our world, Christ in you is the king of your vessel. Each one of us is a world in itself, He is the king of kings meaning the Lord Jesus Christ, is His seed in you that makes, He is over the king in you, He is the king of your king, and Christ in everyone of us is a king, Christ in you is a king over your vessel, Christ in you is a king over my vessel, and the Lord Jesus, He is the king over all of the kings.
COMMENT: It is almost like it is an aspect of His Lordship, controlling them, a king, but by the Spirit of Christ by which He does it.
PASTOR VITALE: Actually...
COMMENT: It is just oneness, you know, it is not different personalities or anything, there is not any separation, that is one of the...
PASTOR VITALE: Actually we are all clones, we are clones of Christ, He is the original cloner, you know, and a cell of Him is grafted to each of us. It is the legal cloning, it is the cloning that our medical community is doing is not godly, it is a very dangerous thing to do be doing, this cloning, its potential in the long run is horrendous, the potential of raising up a slave race, and you just grow people in a laboratory, it is a very dangerous kind of thing to do, but everything that Satan does has the counterfeit of what the Lord does.
The Lord Jesus is cloning Himself, that is exactly what He is doing. Those of us that have begun to manifest the nature of Christ, well I should not even say that, once that seed is grafted to us we are a clone, now every clone does not survive. Your best bet of surviving is this understanding which will help you agree with what is happening to you.
Can you imagine some young girl that did not know anything about life being raped and finding herself pregnant, and not knowing anything about it, or what is happening to her, or I think I even saw a tv program once about a retarded young lady being raped and she got pregnant, so it was not even possible to explain to her what was happening to her, and she was in great distress you know, as her emotions, her hormones started to flow, and her emotions changed and her belly started to get bigger, and then she was nauseous, and she was terrified, absolutely terrified and in great distress.
Jesus said that He is coming like a thief in the night. He is not coming to you like a thief in the night, because you are finding out what it is all about, and to whoever is willing to listen to this message, He will not come to you as a thief in the night, You will be prepared for this pregnancy, because it is a spiritual pregnancy. If Christ is grafted to you, you are pregnant with the child that will save you in child bearing. Paul said that they shall be saved in childbearing.
Some preachers preach that the only way a physical woman could be saved is by having a baby. That is completely ridiculous, I know thousands of women that have babies and they are not saved. It is a spiritual child, you have to bear the Christ child of Revelation chapter 12, He is salvation. Jesus said, I am the resurrection, do you not get it yet, I am the resurrection. Christ in you, He is the resurrection, He is salvation, salvation is a person, Christ in you is salvation. When He stands up in you, your soul is saved. The development of His nature in you will save your soul. He is salvation, and we are all clones of Him.
COMMENT: How do you react or respond to somebody that talks about salvation being resurrected and that, because I have come across that a couple of times, just in the last couple of weeks, what is a good response to it, I mean other them looking at you and saying, You are crazy. How can you plant that seed for them to...
PASTOR VITALE: That is a very hard thing to do. If it were me, I would pray as soon as I saw the conversation was going that way, I would pray silently, Lord I pray for this person, if you are willing to use me, I will speak it, you put the word in my mouth and I will speak it, and it is up to Him, and when it does come out, it usually comes out in a way that is not recognizable to them that you are disagreeing with them. You do not want any controversy, and at the moment I cannot think of an example, but I know that it comes out that way, that they do not even get it, and it slips into their consciousness.
COMMENT: It is like the story you told about your brother-in-law last night, it was just the simple sentence that you said, and it stopped the whole screaming and everything, and he just walked away and went to bed.
PASTOR VITALE: That is true, but even more than that, I would always hope that I could say something that would give them the seed, because once that seed begins to prosper, then the person, all of a sudden, they can understand this crazy doctrine that they heard three or four years ago, and then they start craving it. Jesus is coming as a thief in the night to all of the Christians that are rejecting this message now because their carnal mind cannot receive it. Every interaction that you have had with someone who has caused you grief or upset you or, anything you were able to say to them went in as a seed, so that would be your sacrifice you know, and hopefully that seed will prosper, and it takes from my estimation, an average of three years for that seed to prosper.
COMMENT: Why is that? I have heard this said many times, I mean by experience of course, but it just, is there any spiritual significance to that?
PASTOR VITALE: I do not know. Some people are more spiritually fertile than others, and the spiritual fertility, the way it manifests in our life is their willingness to be taught. If you get a pharisee that really thinks that he has the answer, he is likened to hard earth that you have to take and an implement to break up that earth, an axe, or I am not a farmer, whatever you use to break up that earth you know, but if you get somebody that is really seeking the truth, it will happen faster, and also the more submissive we are, the person is to Christ, the more responsive they are to Christ, the faster it will happen.
I have seen it happen in a year and a half, with someone who was very spiritual and responsive to Christ, and open to different doctrine, and then there are other people, that I know got that seed, I know they got that seed and it is already five years, and I have not really seen anything yet. That seed is pushing against that hard earth trying to come forth, and that hard earth is in absolute refusal to believe. Anybody else. The Lord seems to be taking a break here, do you want to take a 15 minute break.
COMMENT: It was funny you know because we remind each other of these revelations, because I will get this revelation, and I will tell Xxxx about it, they will by like, remember what you said before, I thought you got that. But anyway, an example was, that the kids, I was feeding the baby and Xxxx was in the tub and the boys went in there and by the time I made it in there, they were spraying water all over Xxxx and stuff, and by the time I went in there, there was water everywhere, you know, and I was already ooh, and so I was, I started, saying, you know better than this, on and on, and they all looked at me like this, and I, instantly it was like, what, there is no reasoning at all, there is no help, it is not doing a bit of good, I was just bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, and that was what it was, it was just like Charlie Brown, when I put it together with all of this, and just think about how we are supposed to be encouraging them to expand their mind, and it is like I was telling Xxxx, because we had this long talk about Sunday school, you know and how are we going to get our kids to learn, and I said, Even the Lord I believe gave to me is, even if we cannot explain this to them without confusing them, and explain this to them in a way that they are going to be able to understand and retain it, we can at least teach them to develop their mind, to expand their mind, ask them questions, tell them to come up with certain answers, what do they come up with. So it was just that when we were talking about discipline last night, and spanking and using the rod and all of that, I was in the kitchen when you were having this discussion, but I wondered how that, you know, how does that fit in to, I was trying to fit it into the doctrine of Christ, an example came to me, and I just wondered if you had any depth or insight on it.
PASTOR VITALE: The example of this doctor with his brain?
COMMENT: Yeah, and how does that relate spiritually?
PASTOR VITALE: It is absolutely correct, that is how it works, that it is the, the Christ mind is the rational mind, and it is continuously antagonistic towards our emotions, the emotions want to prevail because the emotions are Satan, see, and they want to prevail, and as soon as Satan gets for that manifestation, Satan has gotten on top of your Christ mind, just like Cain covered over Abel, for all intents and purposes, Christ in you was just killed, but the Lord Jesus keeps raising Him from the dead, Cain just buried Him under the earth, he killed Him.
It is your will, your understanding, and your will of the situation that would make you choose to the fullest degree that you have the ability to choose to not yield, not to sow into your emotions, that will eventually cause Christ in you to cover over those emotions so completely that they never get out again, and that is one of the aspects of full stature, that is the warfare that we are waging.
Over this past year, the Lord has given me a lot of victory in that area, with losing, sometimes the frustration of the just the whole scene just gets to me, usually it gets to me in the secular aspect of the ministry, because there is never enough help, there is no end to the work, the whole story, you have heard the whole story here, and it just gets to me, and my emotions just rush up and it comes out of my mouth, just like that, and over this past year, what has been happening, is that while I am yelling, I hear a voice in my head saying, I do not remember what he said to me, but it is something like it is not you, you know, it is not you.
The whole time I am yelling, I hear this voice telling me, it is not you or this is wrong, or something like that, I do not remember what it was, and that voice strengthened me to say, What am I doing? At one point, the yelling was coming out of my mouth while my mind was saying, What am I doing, I am screaming, and my mind was saying, What am I doing? The Lord is saying, this is wrong, I am saying, What am I doing, and I am screaming. It gave me the strength to stop screaming.
COMMENT: I am finding that with myself as well, I scream, and I am saying, What am I doing, that does not agree with me.
PASTOR VITALE: What it is, is it is the rational mind contending with the Satanic emotions.
COMMENT: That is a good thing. Your mind is getting stronger.
PASTOR VITALE: Right, and that just excited me so much, that in the midst of my manifestation, Christ, that still quiet calm voice was saying, This is wrong. This is wrong. It just excited me beyond my ability to express it, that He was standing up in me, He was fighting for me, because I knew I would be sorry after I did it, the minute I stop yelling, I am embarrassed, and I am more embarrassed than one of you, I mean in my position, I am yelling like this, this should not be you know. (People laughing). I do not want to tell anybody you know. I said, I do not want to be one of these people that lose it on a plane, do you remember Xxxx, what is his first name with the glass cathedral?
COMMENT: Robert Schuller.
PASTOR VITALE: Robert Schuller, he lost it on a plane, it was all in the newspapers, Robert Schuller yelled at the stewardess. I said, Lord how absolutely humiliating, I mean yelling at a stewardess you know. I know that if I yell at Xxxx, then I have a potential to yell at a stewardess you know. So I am working on it now, while nobody knows who I am.
COMMENT: You know what is funny, is I actually had a thought last night of you walking up to those two police officers and yelling at them, and I thought how could you yell in Christ at two police officers that are completely watching these two women who need help.
PASTOR VITALE: I almost told them, I guess it was not the Lord because if it was the Lord, I would have done it, it was really on my heart to walk up to them and say, Excuse me officers, you know, but do you think you could help those two ladies? That is how I would have done it. It really offended me.
COMMENT: That is the biggest battle that I have, getting a hold of that.
PASTOR VITALE: It will come.
COMMENT: I struggle with that big time too, it just follows a pattern where you feel bad afterwards. (Words inaudible)
COMMENT: Yeah, I suppose it is kind of a building in a sense, these triggers that happen, you know what I mean, in yourself, they build up, and it is kind of like it starts building, and...
COMMENT: Well I think what is happening is in the context of subcortex and the emotional thing being behind it, is it slowly, this is just being cut off little by little, and it is sort of like repressing feelings that should be expressed in another way, maybe in a more godly way, and it is just sort of cutting it off a little at a time, and pretty soon, it is completely cut off and I have this big explosion and my emotions are in control, back here, and this is parts completely cut off.
COMMENT: It is really interesting that you put it in that context, and that is the whole doctrine of Christ, to have that wisdom behind it, to know what is happening, to feel the, visualize what is going on in the spiritual realm or this case the physical realm, and to be able to have that understanding, it is just a breath of fresh air.
COMMENT: I see that you are analyzing, you are analyzing everything.
COMMENT: Sheila gave a message on the brain, and I know she could explain it more than me, you gave a message on the brain, about the cortex and that the carnal mind, the cerebellum, and the different parts of the brain, and how much that Satan has a great deal of control, and then Christ has a small amount of control in the brain, and then, initially, yes, and then He, as you grow, He takes over the bigger part where Satan has control, and that is just what you are saying.
COMMENT: I remember another one too where you did a study, the Lord told you to do a study on hormones, where you looked up the different pituitary gland and all of these different glands so that you could specifically name them, Night Time Sexual Harassment.
PASTOR VITALE: I do not remember doing it.
COMMENT: (people laughing).
PASTOR VITALE: Lovely, my students teach me, I really love it, yeah.
COMMENT: But you did, you said the Lord brought you to the library, with this big stack of books and you went and studied because you wanted it, and you said every night before you prayed, before you went to bed you prayed, Lord take control over the this gland, and that gland, whatever the names are, yeah, because everybody was having these weird dreams or something. It is neat because God really does meet us where we are at, and I have always been interested in the whole body and how it works, and always interested in what is going on in it, and you know I have given up a little bit because I think I go a little too overboard, and get to concentrated on the physical body and not on the spiritual part, but now I can put the two together.
COMMENT: (a time of several people talking).
COMMENT: I got a question for you, and I might not understand this, I want to understand it all with reverse inference, I understand that, you say your shirt is orange, well then you know your shirt is not black, you know your shirt is not white, you know those things, but if David did everything that the Lord told him, and he maybe had an affair with Bethsheba, to me that would be true that the Lord indicated him to that, but the word had to be David did only what the Lord told him to do. Am I right now? Because if I leave my house, I say to my children, okay, what I want you to when I am gone, is sweep the deck and I want you to clean the kitchen. If I come home, and they have done that, but they have also ripped a hole inside the swimming pool outside, outside the kiddie pool and then left the chicken gate open and all of the chickens are out, that would mean that I asked them to do that.
COMMENT: But you did not tell them not to do that.
PASTOR VITALE: You did not tell them not to do that, (laughing).
COMMENT: You know what I am saying, is that?
PASTOR VITALE: Yeah, I know what you are saying, you picked what I was suggesting, you got right, the suggestion is that the Lord must have told him to have an affair with Bethsheba.
COMMENT: No, that is not what I am saying, If David did everything that the Lord told him to do, maybe the Lord did not tell him to have an affair with Bethsheba, but he did everything that the Lord asked him to do.
PASTOR VITALE: Okay, but maybe the Lord did not tell him that.
COMMENT: So the word that would make that true what you are saying in my understanding, is only, David did only what the Lord told him to do.
PASTOR VITALE: It did not say only, it said he did everything that the Lord told him to do, except in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.
COMMENT: It did not say everything he did was what the Lord told him to do.
PASTOR VITALE: It did say...
COMMENT: Right, he did everything that the Lord told him to do except kill Uriah, so the Lord told him to have relations with Bethsheba.
PASTOR VITALE: That is the suggestion, you have to ask yourself, how come Solomon came out that adultery. Solomon did not come out of the adulterous union, the baby that came out of the adulterous union died, but Solomon came out of that marriage.
COMMENT: What does that say about God though, to have an adulterous relationship?
PASTOR VITALE: I know there is surprise that I said that at this meeting. The Zohar which is the foundational book of Kabbalah, which is a commentary, an advanced commentary on the Scripture, the writer of the Zohar says that the reason that David did not die for doing that, because you know after that adultery, the prophet came to David and said, Do not worry, you are not going to die. He should have died for that, but the baby of the union will die. The Kabbalists say that the reason that David did not die, wait a minute, I have to back up, there is a Kabbalistic doctrine that I never embraced before this, I really rejected it before this, and I cannot believe that I brought this up in this meeting. It is called the doctrine of the soul tie, and it says that every soul that reincarnates, that souls reincarnate in pairs, and that they may reincarnate in pairs and then they are drawn towards each other.
There is a man named Carl Armstrong, a Christian man named Carl Armstrong that got a hold of this doctrine and it did a lot of damage in the church, I am telling you right up front, it did a lot of damage in the church. He was preaching this soul tie doctrine, so if it just turned out that your soul tie is not your wife, or your soul tie in not your husband, the doctrine says you cannot go to heaven without your soul mate. If your soul mate happens to be someone that you are not married to, I do not know whether he was telling them to get divorced or just get into adultery, it was a complete disaster, and it came into Africa right after I left, it came into Nigeria right after I left, and it blew the whole fellowship into the water, everybody was in adultery or fornication, and it was a disaster. That are Carl Armstrong, and that is the danger here. The Kabbalists are saying that in the case of David, king of Israel, not in the case of the average person in the street, but in the case of David, king of Israel, it was ordained, see, this is the suggestion that the Lord wants to bring forth a Solomon, and we are told in the Scripture that the Lord knows the seeds, the seed in the woman=s ovary, the Lord knows them as a conscious being while they are still a seed, an ovum, and a decision was made somewhere on some level that this ovum that sperm was going to produce what Solomon represents to the whole church, which was he was the wisest, what does Solomon represent to the whole church? He represents God=s ability to prosper us to that complete degree you know when we keep His statutes, and keep His commandments and love Him with all of our heart and stay away from idolatry. That is the result of it, wisdom and prosperity. You should not be seeking God for prosperity alone, you seek, of course you want your needs met and all of that, but Solomon was not looking for prosperity, he was looking for wisdom to judge his people, his heart was right and in addition to the wisdom, he got prosperity, and he was the greatest king that ever lived, of wealth and everything else that went with it.
This is what came out of this sperm and this egg and that somehow in the spiritual realm, it was discerned that this sperm and this egg were required to produce this example for the whole world. It was not the man in the street, it had to do with God=s purposes, is everybody with me, this is a very dangerous topic, and that David saw this woman, there is not one Scripture, I searched the Scripture, I could not find one Scripture that Bethsheba loved him, all that I read is that he saw her, and he sent his guard and said, Get her, something similar to what I was saying about Michael, and she came, married the king.
My understanding of it is this, see David was punished but he did not die. He did not die because it was God=s ultimate purpose that Solomon should be born of this sperm and this egg, but yet he committed adultery, he did commit a sin. It is like a paradox, it is a complete contradiction. What I understand, the way I understand it is that David was attracted to this woman, but he did not have the understanding in his mind, that there was something spiritual operating here, he could have done it another way, he could have called her, he could have had them get divorced, he did not have to steal her and kill her husband. I do not know, maybe it was the Lord=s will that these two were called, and maybe there should have been a divorce and a union, I do not know, but the way David did it, there was this overwhelming attraction for this woman because it was more than lust, they were soul mates, and it was intended at the time that they incarnated to cohabit to produce this Solomon, and I have gone before the Lord, and I said, Lord, you know, why did she have to be married, they polygamy in this days. If that was really your will why did she have to be married, why could she just not be married? I have not heard any answer yet.
This is as far as I have gotten, that it was determined in some high place that these two would bring forth a Solomon, and because this is an imperfect world, the will of God came to pass in imperfect circumstances and sin was revealed in David, but he did not die because the driving force that led him to it was this underlying spiritual attraction based upon the theory of soul mates, and he did not deal with it properly, it could been done in a different way, anybody understanding this, this is really serious, I do not want anybody walking out of here with the wrong idea of what I am saying. There was this underlying pull that David felt he had to have her, but he did not have the understanding, so he went about it, he abused, he acquired it by abusive power. This is a very important principle because when Christ starts to be formed in us, we are going to be feeling all kinds of feelings, Christ is going to be stimulating us to do things that our mind does not agree with, and Satan is going to be stimulating, so we are going to have to negotiate, we are going to have to work together, our emotions and our mind, and find out what is God.
Let me give you an example, when Christ started taking over my life, I would wake up in the morning and these were the days when I was just studying, I studied every day, there was like no office work because I took the papers, and my filing, and I threw it, really I did that for years until we went, until we had to become not for profit, and I had to start answering to the government, because I did not want anything to do with office work, I just was at my computer day and night, mail came in, chucked it, could not find anything anywhere, it was a disaster. In these days I was just working around the clock, and I would get up in the morning and I would have it in my mind what I was going to do, what I was going to work on, what I was going to study, and I go to my computer, and I would be doing something completely different, and I would be sitting there typing away, working on a project or a Scripture that was not my choice, and I would be praying saying, Lord, if this is not you, you better set me free because I am being controlled, I do not want to be doing this, I do not want to be typing this, I do not want to be working on this book today, or on this Scripture today, my heart is literally dragging me to do something else and I am not resisting, I am going with what I feel to do, what I am doing here, I am typing right, and I said, if this is not you, if this is Leviathan, you have got to tell me because otherwise I am going to go with it.
He never corrected me, so I learned that this was Christ giving me an assignment that was different than the assignment that my mind wanted to do that day. That really does not happen to me much anymore, as He cleaved to me and grafted to me more and more, my mind is more in sync with Him, although it still happens sometimes but not very much because my mind is more in sync with Him.
This is what I am trying to tell you, as Christ matures in you, you are going to have these conflicts, your emotions are going to want to do one thing, your natural mind is going to want to do one thing and your Christ mind is going to be pulling, you are going to be pulled in all different directions, and you are going to have to pray your way through it to find out what is God, and these pulls that can be very, very strong, they can be emotional pulls, they can be mental pulls, very strong.
This is what I think happened to David, that he felt this pull. You have to remember that this was a different society than we have today. I honestly do not know the answer to this, but it might of been very legitimate for a king to desire a woman and to arrange for a divorce, that might have been acceptable in those days, but he did not do it that way. I am just going to take this an example, I am not sure if it is true, but this is what I am going to use to explain this to you, at this point, I believe that souls incarnate in pairs, today I believe in the doctrine of soul mates, which I resisted that doctrine for years, and that David was destined to impregnate Bethsheba with Solomon, but he did not understand it, he just felt that overwhelming desire for that woman, and being the king, he just did what he did.
But perhaps in that day, it would have been legitimate for a king to say, Look, I really want you, and I want you to divorce your husband, it would not have been sin under that society perhaps. The whole message is you are going to be, I guess maybe the Lord wanted me to tell you this, it scares me to tell you all things like this, I saw a whole fellowship come down, this guy Carl Armstrong came in right after I left town, several people were writing me from Lagos, Nigeria, it was complete chaos, the whole fellowship went into adultery and fornication, one of the brightest young fellows there who I was personally discipling was killed in a car accident, and the whole fellowship came down. All of the marriages were breaking up, it was complete chaos.
COMMENT: After this guy came in.
PASTOR VITALE: Yeah, but you have to realize that this guy, he did not only come in with the doctrine, he came in with an unclean spirit, you know, but understanding is the name of the game. I teach some very radical things but you have hear it, you have to hear it.
COMMENT: I guess I was going to make a comment, you know we talk about counterfeit, a lot of times people say counterfeit is the opposite, it is not, counterfeit almost is like a parallel, it just some point takes a small skew that makes it wrong, or when you deal with, just as an example, (word inaudible), it is identical in every way except one thing is out of tune that makes it that counterfeit, and a lot of people think well if it is opposite it is not right, not necessarily, the counterfeit can almost be identical, have a mirror image.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, that is true, in the same manner, the word anti-Christ does not mean opposite of Christ, it means in place of Christ, anti-Christ will replace Christ. If someone has a spirit of anti-Christ, they think that they are Christ and therefore they cannot receive the true Christ because they think they already have it. I think I am saying the same thing.
COMMENT: I had a question here, a couple of different things, you know you, with the Bethsheba you know you asked the question, why a married woman, and you know listening to some of your previous messages, you have talked about just the disobedience, the sin, I mean the churches of these days look at these men of old and think, look at how godly they were, and yet they were not, is it possible that Bethsheba was told, you know, I look at today at certain individuals that should not marry. You have given words saying, this man is not right, or this woman is not right, and yet they have married, is it possible that Bethsheba was told by God not marry because of the future of the relationship that she would have with David, and that was her disobedience? The second thing is, is that this union, should I stop there before I go on?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, let me answer that. That is a very interesting comment that you are making, and what has come into my mind is that in those days, I do not think women had a choice who they married, so I think the answer is, that because of the time, because of the society it was not feasible to keep her single until the Lord could bring them together, because you see the will of God filters down into this world, and it plays itself out, you know, that is why Jesus said, No man knows the time, not even me, only the Father in heaven, because the will of God filters down through everybody=s carnal mind and whatever these forces are, I do not understand them completely that bring people that brought you to me on the internet, whatever these forces are that bring people into each other=s lives, it is not an exact science.
If you can think of us as puppets trying to bring us together and this one leaves the scene just before this one gets here, and you keep bringing everybody around and around until you get together. Maybe the way things, the will of God worked out in this world, was that king David did not see her until after she was married, and I think that is the answer.
COMMENT: Is it also possible that the parents were disobedient?
PASTOR VITALE: Absolutely.
COMMENT: Because Bethsheba, the way it sounds was a beautiful attractive woman, and with some parents that you talk to, they say, you know my son is going out with this beautiful girl, and boy will they not have a beautiful looking children, I mean it is that type of you know...
PASTOR VITALE: That was the society, I think everything was a contract. I know girls were promised and children were mated before, when they were five, six, seven years old.
COMMENT: I suppose that the parents of Bethsheba were prestigious people and Uriah was of prestigious people as well, and so they put them together.
PASTOR VITALE: It must have been a fixed marriage. I believe the Lord spoke through you, this is true body ministry, this is exciting, yes.
COMMENT: The second thing that I have then is, with the union of David and Bethsheba going back to, when you look at Adam Kadmon, I mean we come from one Adam, the primordial Adam, when we, we will eventually go back to one Adam. Is it possible that with the joining, that there was more of a spiritual matter of Adam within David, as a son of God... When Adam fell, he fell into many particles, when you look at David, could David have had more of a consciousness, more particles of Adam as a son of God within him?
PASTOR VITALE: Than who?
COMMENT: Than others, he was more spiritually enlightened.
PASTOR VITALE: Well he was, David was the precursor of who we are today, today it is possible for just about anybody to have Christ grafted to them if you pursue God properly, but in those days it was not for everybody, but David had that experience, Christ dwelt in him, absolutely.
COMMENT: So David had more, can some people be have more of Christ, can they be born with more of Christ than others?
PASTOR VITALE: Everybody is born with a dead Christ, but Christ does not mature equally.
COMMENT: Can they have more of the dead Christ that will have more potential. The son of God, because like I said, eventually we are going to go back to one, so more matter, spiritual matter of the dead Christ that was in David, and more matter of the dead Christ that was in Bethsheba, and when both of them joined together, they produced a Solomon who had, can you hear what I am saying, I do not know how to say it but...
PASTOR VITALE: I can hear what you are saying, with questions like this, it is just my opinion, I do not really see it that way, I do not see someone having more of the dead Christ, but I am enlightened by what you said in that, David definitely was the manifestation of Christ in the earth in one man, he was the precursor of Jesus, he was the one that manifested the anointing, and as far as Bethsheba goes, I do not know who she was, you know. Apparently those two people were ordained to produce this child, and I really received what just came forth, that, I do not really know if I made it clear or not that when the will of God filters down, you see this world is a temporary world, everything is continuously changing, you know, it is like being up in a satellite, and having the earth turning, and you are up there, and you want to drop a bomb, or you want to drop something on a particular geographical area, and the earth is turning and turning, and you say, Well here it comes, I am going to drop it now, and it may hit where you want it to hit but it may not hit where you want it to hit, so the will of God comes into this world and has to work its way through the carnal minds of disobedient people.
The will of God is moving on some carnal person to do this but they are listening to their carnal mind, so they did not go there, maybe it was the parents who were disobedient, maybe the Lord was telling the parents to not marry her to this man, I do not know how old she was when she got married, but I think that we really hit on what happened you know, that, that is how it worked out, and that maybe she was married at 14 you know, and it just, maybe David was still out in the middle of the battlefield in a war, so that is how it all played together.
COMMENT: Is it possible that God was using that as an example for the church, in that David being Christ, and Bethsheba being the church, that even from her adulterous relationship, wisdom comes out with Solomon, the perfect union.
PASTOR VITALE: That good could come out of it. That is interesting. I am sure it is true, interesting.
COMMENT: I kind of look at it also as spiritual alchemy, is it not? I mean with you know, with Bethsheba had to be the one that had to be that one, two, three, four.
PASTOR VITALE: I think I missed what you were saying before, I think were you saying, in order to produce this incredible anointing on Solomon okay, that they, that perhaps Bethsheba had more than average person.
David definitely had the anointing, you know, and I believe that each ovum in a woman is a living person, a person whose in a different form, just like your infant is in a different form than you, so God knew the potential of that ovum, and perhaps that potential, that ovum had a potential to be very anointed, but I do not think it came from the dead Christ, it came from the living seed, the woman=s ovum, and David=s sperm.
COMMENT: Before you were saying that if you go back to generations, like if you were, like if my family, like if my mom=s mom=s mom=s mom, they were all grounded in Christ, then it is like from your roots, now could that be what he saying, is that you know maybe there is more of Christ built up in him than others?
PASTOR VITALE: It could be, it could be. I did want to clarify something that I said before, as Christ is formed in you and as become more and more spiritual people, we are going to find ourselves attracted to other spiritual people. I think Xxxx is the one who was saying at the table that what really blesses her is to be in company of other spiritual people.
I was saying that we are told in the book of Acts, that this spiritual blood, if it is not true in your life now, will eventually be a stronger tie than our blood relations, it is a very strong pull, and we are all male and females, so it is possible for a male and female, for Christ in us to be drawing two people together, and it can misunderstood by the carnal mind as a sexual attraction. I did not get it out, but this was the whole warning that the Lord wanted me to give you, to not confuse this spiritual attraction with sexual attraction, because it is the same energy, sexual energy and spiritual energy are the same energy, it is energy that either goes up to brain or it goes down to your genitals, it is the same energy, it either goes up or it goes down. A lot of people that have high spiritual experiences find themselves sexually stimulated.
COMMENT: That is probably why we find so many pastors...
PASTOR VITALE: They run off with the church secretary?
COMMENT: Yeah.
PASTOR VITALE: Yeah, so your anointed group, you are all called to a high place and the Lord is warning you that this is what is coming, and it has to do with living out of your mind, and not out of your emotions and not out of your sexual feelings, and you are going to have to pray, if it happens to you, to pray it through, you know, and of course if something starts rising up in you, for another woman or another man, you rebuke it, you know, we are in control of this body, you know, but the whole issue is are you going to be deceived and think that you are madly in love with that other person, you know, and follow after it sexually, you have to know in your mind, you are now forewarned that if this happens to you, do not go into condemnation, do not let it frighten you, just rebuke it, and you do not have to be afraid of that person, you do not have to not have a relationship with that person, of the other sex, do not be afraid of it, deal with it. It is in your mind, you do it through your mind, that is the message.
COMMENT: You talked about soul ties, what came to mind was the story of Ruth, how God was going to use Moab, he was going to connect Moab, bring them, the two daughter-in-laws of Naomi and bring the one, which is Ruth back to Israel, back to, was it Israel? I cannot remember, where Boaz was. With that happening, God knew all along that he was soul tie Boaz with Ruth, but he had to wait for the husband to die, and it was in another country, you said it could be somewhere else, well that was the case, it was somewhere else, and God had to wait for time to pass, and they became, and he became an ancestor of David.
COMMENT: Maybe David because he had ordered the Hittite to be killed, the Hittite may have already been, God maybe was already going to take care of it, because...
PASTOR VITALE: David jumped the gun.
COMMENT: Exactly, and took matters into his own hands, which we all love to do.
COMMENT: That could have been the disobedience, well no because it still gets back to adultery anyway, but yeah it is still there anyway.
COMMENT: What is interesting is that the son or the baby, the child, I do not know if it was a son of Bethsheba and David=s first offspring was illegal, and it died, and then God brought forth something greater after he took Bethsheba as his wife.
COMMENT: I guess that I was saying, because of that, had they waited just maybe a month or whatever, it is possible that God would have taken care of it, and Bethsheba would have been legitimately, and he would not have had that as a mark against him.
COMMENT: He gave over to that sexual drive that you are speaking about instead of keeping it up in the mind.
PASTOR VITALE: Right, I believe he did not understand it, he yielded to the sexual drive as king you know, and he did not understand that it was ordained. Although at some point he had to be, he had to understand that it was ordained because at the end of the book of 1 Kings, Bethsheba comes to David and says to him, when David=s son Adonijah was making himself king, David was on his death bed, and Adonijah, the true heir to the throne after the flesh, was claiming to be king, and Bethsheba came to David, and said, What is going on, Adonijah is making himself king, do you not remember that you told me that Solomon would inherit your throne? David must have heard prophetically from the Lord, that, that boy would inherit, now I do not know whether he knew it before the child was born or not, but the Solomon would be the heir to the throne, and the priest witnessed to it. It was the will of God and David knew about it, and Bethsheba knew about it, that they had brought forth an anointed son, it was ordained of God.
COMMENT: Did Nathan the prophet tell David the son would not live, the first time?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, I believe it was Nathan again who said it was Solomon who was to inherit the throne.
COMMENT: And David did not take the word of the prophet because he what fasted and prayed for days, thinking that God would change his mind and spare the child.
PASTOR VITALE: I had some revelation on that but it is eluding me at the moment.
COMMENT: The other thing, there was another verse I wrote down and looked up too, was that when that baby died, David said, He will not come to me, but I will go to him. I think that was very interesting verse, I was going to ask you about that, what you felt that would mean. When the baby died, I think it is in 2 Samuel 12, he was fasting and praying and basically just crying out to God to save his child=s life, and the servants were taking note of what he was doing, and when the baby died, he got up and he ate. And they go, What are you doing? And then he goes, Well God made the decision, the baby is dead, there is nothing I can do about it, so I am going to live. What he said was, While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept first, I said, Who can tell whether the Lord will be gracious to me that my child may live, but now he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him but he shall not return to me.
PASTOR VITALE: Oh, talking about the child, I shall go to him but he shall not return to me. I think the question that came to my mind on that, was that David was, you know David had multiple wives, you know, marriages were different than they are today, even children, kings were not close with all of them, they had like ten, fifteen, twenty children, however many they had, they were not close to their children like you are close to your children today, and they had all of these different wives and each wife had her household and raised the children, and it was just different, and the thought came to me, that the reason David was moaning and groaning and carrying on like that, was that he had a revelation that, that union was to bring forth Solomon, and he did not know, he thought he was losing, how do I say this, he thought that, that would be the end of the opportunity, he did not know that the Lord would bring forth another child with that same promise afterward. It was not just that he was crying over this baby, I believe that is what is in my heart, that is what the Lord told me that, that he thought it was the baby that was anointed to take the throne, and his sin because he did it, now you have to read into the Scripture, Well yeah if you would have left it in my hands, I would have taken care of it, or you did it the wrong way, or whatever, and he was thinking that he messed up God=s plan, and that it was because of him that the anointed heir to the throne died, and that is why he was carrying on like that.
COMMENT: Okay, praise God, that is awesome.
PASTOR VITALE: And then when he said, He will not come to me, but I will go to him, when I get a chance I am going to look up those words in the Interlinear because what is in my spirit is that, at that point, he knew that there would be another child born. He would see another child, he would go to him, but there will be another, see this soul that was getting ready to incarnate in that baby, would incarnate again in another offspring. He has several children with Bethsheba, Solomon was not the next child that was born, did you know that? He had I think three or four children with Bethsheba and Solomon the third of fourth. It is interesting. Solomon was ordained to be born, and he thought he messed up God=s plan, and that was the reason for that show of mourning and regret. It just gets deeper and deeper and deeper.
COMMENT: In the Scripture generally is it not when they say, this was begat this one, they are naming the sons, not the women that were born, that they have been the tenth child, we do not know.
PASTOR VITALE: Where it gives the genealogy, and says, that Solomon had five sons or what, it just says he begat, that is very interesting. I think that there is a good lesson in that, that if we make a mistake and God=s plan is not manifest in us at a particular time, we should know that His will, will always be manifest, be manifest in another way, another time, even another generation, so we never mess up that bad that, it is really a real spirit of pride that would say, Well I messed up God=s plan, and it is finished forever, nobody has the power to mess up God=s plans and He works everything for the good for those who love the Lord, everything just manages to straighten itself out. Who could understand the mind of God, you know, who could comprehend that.
COMMENT: Or His timing, I would say also.
PASTOR VITALE: Or His timing.
COMMENT: Do you have that answer?
PASTOR VITALE: I will let you know. Anybody else?
COMMENT: What was Solomon=s downfall, you know I hear that Solomon, he lost his power, how did he lose his power?
PASTOR VITALE: Idolatry, he worshiped other gods, the worst spiritual crime that you can commit is idolatry, because if you worship other gods, you cut yourself off from the living God and if you cut yourself off from the living God, you die, because life is only through union with Him.
COMMENT: Did he not marry someone from another tribe?
PASTOR VITALE: It is amazing, he had something like four hundred wives.
COMMENT: He not only had wives, but concubines.
PASTOR VITALE: And concubines, yeah, and they were women who worshiped pagan gods, and he was influenced by the women that he was cohabiting with, and he did, this is an interesting point, he did not influence them to worship the living God, but they influenced him to worship their idols.
COMMENT: And he fell under that?
PASTOR VITALE: Right, he fell under that and the final straw was when he himself built an altar to another god, I am not sure which pagan god it was, but he himself actually built an altar, Solomon who built this great temple in honor of Jehovah went and built an altar, I think it was to Baal, but I am not sure, and that was it.
COMMENT: Do you understand that spiritual significance of having so many wives?
PASTOR VITALE: I do not, and I really question if he really had that many wives or they were spiritual interactions, I have thought about it, I do not really know, because to have that many wives, it has to be a manifestation of intense pride, how many women can you get to, you know. He had more than three hundred and sixty five women. (People laughing).
COMMENT: Where was that in the Scripture that it talks about that there were three things that David was not, that the king of Israel was not supposed to do, they were not supposed to heap themselves camels, I thought wives, and count the people.
COMMENT: And there were like three things that the kings of Israel were forbidden to do.
PASTOR VITALE: I know that they were not allowed to count the people but I have not...
COMMENT: It was something about, it was in 1 Kings or something like that?
COMMENT: There were three things God told them not to do, and one of them, camels and count the people, and all three things David did.
PASTOR VITALE: What did he do with the camels?
COMMENT: I think it was more of a massing of great wealth or I am not really sure, do you know what I am talking about?
COMMENT: Yeah, I have read it.
PASTOR VITALE: Well I cannot counting of the people, my understanding of what that means is that is referring to gathering an army together and you are not supposed to go to war unless the Lord tells you to go to war. If the Lord tells you to go to war you do not have to count the people, you just go, that means David did that, he went to war in his own strength for his own motive, that was the danger of that, but I am not familiar with the other two.
COMMENT: With Solomon, it talked about strange women, it said he had seven hundred and princesses and three hundred concubines, and his wives turned away his heart.
PASTOR VITALE: Proverbs talks about the strange women, so it could be a spiritual thing, I am not sure, I am just questioning it.
COMMENT: I was watching a show about Solomon where the show was saying that he would put on a ring, and I do not know if you have ever heard about this before, but he would put on a ring and he could command the spiritual demons, and that is how he had the temple built, the force of the ring.
PASTOR VITALE: You must have been watching an occult program.
COMMENT: It was on the history channel, it is kind of like the old lost Bibles stories or something like that.
COMMENT: (laughing), the old lost fairy tales.
PASTOR VITALE: The producers on the discovery channel, and all of those channels, they have been brought up by some conglomerate of evil, I mean it cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy those (word inaudible), and they are putting all of these gnostic teachings on the tv, and Gnosticism is, how to I explain it, it is not, how do I explain it, it looks like Christianity, it sounds like Christianity, it talks and walks like Christianity, but it is not Christianity. Unless you have a deep knowledge of the Scripture, and there are like thousands of people out there in this country today that are being seduced, being completely fooled thinking that they are learning Christianity and they are not, it is gnostic doctrine. It is the anti-Christ doctrine.
COMMENT: You know in Hosea, I see that God told to take a wife of whoredom, so God was doing things like that, so you know in David=s time, God could do anything you know, and so here it is in Hosea what He is doing, you know where He is telling the people to do.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, and I believe at this point that Hosea did actually marry a prostitute, but even that is not in the same category as committing adultery. God will, I believe, I think I know your point, and I do agree with you, God will ask His anointed people to do things that appear to be outrageous to even the rest of the church, so it is really hard to be a called out one of God, because you have to really hear from the Lord, and if He is asking you to do something that is not socially acceptable, it is a real challenge.
COMMENT: They had to question that somehow you know.
PASTOR VITALE: Well I do not know if they questioned it, I do not think, the king, he just called her and she came, you know, and he was just driven by his lust, I do not think he questioned it, it does not appear that he did.
COMMENT: No, I mean in Hosea.
PASTOR VITALE: Oh in Hosea. Yeah, well now here we have a prophet okay, who had to have an intense relationship with God to bring forth the prophecies that he had, so he must have been convinced that the Lord told him to do it, but what is interesting is that he really sacrificed his whole life, I do not know what his life was like being married to a prostitute, we do not know what kind of a personality she had, she could not have been a woman of God, he had a family, had raised children with her, his life may have been a living hell, you know, but he did it as a natural example of Christ marrying the prostitute church.
As I said earlier on the message today, all of mankind is guilty of spiritual adultery and rebellion, and to God=s estimation, if you, you know, harlotry does not necessarily mean that she was a prostitute, she could have been an adulterous woman, Scripturally speaking, you are a harlot if you commit adultery, if you fornicate, if you have sex outside of marriage, Scripturally speaking, you are a harlot, that is the mentality of the Scripture, so we do not know who this woman was, you know, she may have been a young woman that had sex once with another man, she could have been a prostitute, going with many men, she could have been an adulteress, we really do not know who she was?
COMMENT: Could a harlot have been raped?
PASTOR VITALE: I do not know.
COMMENT: I think of Rahab.
COMMENT: I was thinking of Rahab too.
PASTOR VITALE: What about Rahab, she was a harlot, but we do not know what was a harlot. It is a good question. I would not think so, this is just coming out of my gut, how can you pronounce someone a harlot because they have been raped, because it is talking about an act that is generated by a sinful attitude.
COMMENT: Well you look at in the eastern countries these days, and the Muslim women will be considered harlots when they are actually not.
PASTOR VITALE: And if they are raped and they bear a child, they are considered a harlot, you are right.
COMMENT: Who was the woman in the Bible, and a king raped her and then he decided he loved her, and he wanted to make union with the other tribe? He said, I want to make this right, he said, I want to trade with you guys, I want to get along with you, so he agreed to get circumcised, and they all were circumcised, the men of that tribe, the son came in, the father was not doing anything about it, killed them all. You had commented that the father, you know I did not understand that for a long time, but he was, it was Christ in him, he was not obedient to his own desires but to the Lord.
PASTOR VITALE: Vengeance, and the Lord was not telling him to take vengeance and so he did not do anything.
COMMENT: In other examples like that, I do not recall that they called her a harlot.
PASTOR VITALE: No, I have no recollection of that, that they called her a harlot. That is right, because they went and they took her back, they took, we do not know if she wanted to stay with him or not, see women did not have much to say in those days, she was captured, kidnaped and raped, her brothers came and captured her back. I do not believe that her brothers went, it was two brothers, it was Levi, and I do not remember the other one, I do not believe they went to rescue her because they loved their sister, and I think it was a pride issue, and it clearly says in the Scripture, They cannot do this to us, that was our sister, so maybe she loved the guy, maybe she wanted to stay, but we do know, they went and took her back, and I actually researched that once, and I could not find anything in the Scripture that tells us anything about her life after that, what happened to her, if she has children, if she, I think the way things were those days, there would be no one who would marry her, she might have been better off with him. I am glad I am not living in those days.
COMMENT: Even when Absalom raped his sister, you never heard of her anymore.
PASTOR VITALE: The last thing we heard, we did hear about Tamar, that she was depressed and she, I think there was an indication that she lived out the rest of her life as a recluse. But with Dinah, we do not know anything about her. It is interesting that we see an account in the Scripture of Michael=s emotions, that she loved David, and then she hated David, but we do not know how Bethsheba felt about him, and we do not know how Dinah felt.
COMMENT: Are they the same author? When we were in Bible college we learned that, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John all had, like say Matthew was a tax collector, so he had a slightly different twist on it, and Luke was a doctor, so he had maybe more of an emotional twist to it, so if they were different authors, I do not know, maybe they have just like one author decided to pay more attention to Michael=s emotions, and the next one did not.
PASTOR VITALE: I do not know, but that is an interesting point, or if they thought so little of women that they did not put down their emotions, I do not know.
COMMENT: I suppose when you think about it though, spiritual scholars, they spend their time alone with the Lord, and they spend that time around other men, so as much time as they have infused into the brotherhood of that teaching, women are just kind of part of their conversation, because if you are doing something day in and day out over and over and over again, you know, women are correct? I mean Kabbalah they are supposed to be married right? You know, but yet a true Kabbalist, I mean like yourself, I mean you get so fused into the doctrine, yeah, that you just, everything around you, whether you have family or not, it is just...
PASTOR VITALE: What I would be curious to do, see I have the Zohar on cd, I would be curious to go into the Zohar and search and see if the writer of the Zohar has anything more to say about Dinah, I could do that, you all want me to do that? I could get my computer. That would be the way to go for me.
09/28/08rr
