237 - Part 3
ROMANS CHAPTER 8

Part 3 of 7 Parts

 

The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For
Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By
 The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.

 

We will be doing verses 18 through 27 today, of Romans 8. Verses 19 through 21, however, we dealt with on message 196, part 1, verses 19 through 21. Those were, sort of, difficult verses, and we studied them in-depth and worked up the Alternate Translations for them on message 196, part 1, "Subject to Vanity." So what we will be doing today is, for those 3 verses, we will just -- I am going to incorporate the Alternate Translation in this message and just comment on it briefly.

Recap, Romans 8:1-17, "Therefore, the wrath of God is no longer directed towards those in whom Christ Jesus is ruling, who conduct their lives according to the internalized law of the Spirit of Christ and not the spirit of Satan. Behold" -- I am sorry, "Indeed, the controlling force in Christ Jesus which produces life has set me free from the controlling force which causes me to do dishonorable misdeeds, which bring the misery and suffering of this existence upon me."

Can I have a little more volume there, please? Thank you.

"And because God thrust His own Son into the fallen living soul to do what the law could not do and condemn sin for its own good, that we might be filled up with Christ Jesus, the one who pardons us from the wrath of God and be controlled by the Spirit of Christ, instead of the spirit of Satan," and please note this is all one sentence, "and because those things, which are in the soul are born of the flesh mind, but those things which are in the spirit are born of the spirit, and because the mind which is born of the flesh kills the soul," that is the carnal mind, "but the mind which is born of the spirit gives it life and peace. Now, therefore, the mind which is born of the flesh hates God because it is not, nor can it be subject to God. So then men with flesh minds cannot please God."

That was verse 8. Verse 9, "Nevertheless, if the Spirit of God truly lives in you, your mind is born of the Spirit, not the flesh. Therefore, anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ is not Christ. But if Christ is truly in you" -- verse 10, "But if Christ is truly in you, your soul is still dead because of the sins of your flesh mind, but your human spirit is alive because Christ has made her acceptable to God."

Verse 11, "So if the Spirit of Christ, who was raising up the man Jesus from the dead, is living inside of you and influencing you for your good, that same spirit is raising up Christ Jesus from the dead in you also and shall make your souls alive also because His Spirit is in you, is internalized in you."

Verse 12, "Therefore, brethren, we no longer owe our existence to the mind which is born of the flesh."

Verse 13, "Because if the mind, which is born of the flesh, gives you existence, your soul shall separate from your body without being reformed. But if you separate your human spirit from the sinful deeds of your soul and join with Christ, you shall live because men who are born of the Spirit of God are the sons of God."

Verses 15 and 16, "Indeed, you have not received the spirit of the carnal mind, which brings your human spirit into submission to Satan again, but you have received the engrafted word by which we are crying to Jehovah, the Lord Jesus Christ, to avenge Himself, which cry is the immature manifestation of the Spirit of Christ personally acknowledging that Christ Jesus is appearing in our human spirit."

Verse 17, "So if we are truly heirs of God and joint-heirs of Christ, then we are sons entitled to inherit the kingdom and share in God's good opinion of the Lord Jesus Christ, if we truly experience His painful penetration of our carnal mind."

Please, mark that down, brethren. We must be penetrated by His mind. Our existing mind, whose name is carnal, must be penetrated by Christ for us to inherit the promises. Now our body does not have to die and go to heaven, but our carnal mind must be penetrated. You have received a false message, brethren. Jesus.

Continuing with Romans 8:18, "For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us."

Reckon, 3049, means to think, or we can say to draw -- the word reckon means to draw a conclusion after weighing the issues, to think something through after weighing all the pros and cons. Sufferings, 3804, means misfortune, calamity or evil. Worthy, Strong's 514, signifies having value. And the word glory -- the Greek word translated glory, we have talked about that so many times. It means the Spirit of God in the soul realm.

Alternate Translation, Romans 8:18, "Because I believe that the calamities of this present age are nothing in comparison to what we shall experience when the Spirit of God is revealed in us." That is not a full sentence. "Because I believe that the calamities of this present age are nothing in comparison to what we shall experience when the Spirit of God is revealed in us." That should really be a comma there.

Verse 19, "For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God." OK, I am going to put this all together for you. It sounds like it is not running in sequence, but if you will just bear with me, I will put it together for you.

OK, now we have an Alternate Translation for verse 19. You may recall this is one of the verses that we worked up on message number 196, part 1. "Therefore, the creature is laboring to give birth to the sons which God is eagerly expecting."

Verse 20, "For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope."

And our Alternate Translation for that is, "Because the creation was not subjected to Satan because the Father or the man desired it, but was -- but the creation was subjected to Satan in the hope of the other guy, meaning Christ, subjecting the one who subjected us." OK. The cr- -- let me go over that for you.

Well, let me back up to verse 19. I do not think you should have any problem with that. "Therefore, the creature is laboring to give birth." Who is the creature? The whole human race is a creature, "is laboring to give birth to the sons which God is eagerly expecting." Now when the creature gives birth to the sons of God, what is being born in her?

            Christ.

And Christ is a what?

            [?A mind?].

Is a mind. When soul has a union with spirit, the offspring is a mind. When soul has a union with spirit, the offspring is a mind which fills that soul. When soul has an incestuous union with itself, the offspring of that union is flesh. We call it the mind of the flesh, but it is not spirit. You see, mind is supposed to be spirit. When a spirit joins with a soul and produces an offspring, it produces a mind which is spirit and strong enough to rule the soul in righteousness. But when the soul joins with itself in an incestuous union and brings forth a mind within itself, that mind is playing like a spirit, but it is really a soul and not qualified to rule, and that is why we are dying. Is everybody OK? OK.

Verse 20, "For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope."

Alternate Translation, "Because the creation was not subjected to Satan because the Father or the man or Adam desired it" -- neither one wanted it. You will hear it preached in the church world that the Father wanted it. It was His intention. It was part of His plan. He knew it was going to happen. No, the Father did not want it. Neither did the man want it, OK. But the subjecting of the creation to Satan was the result -- does anybody remember? Was the result of the testing of the man, which testing he failed. It was not that the Father wanted it.

There had to be a free, unassisted testing. God gave the man everything He could give him. He did everything He could do for him, and now the man had to stand up and function. And when he tried, he found out that his legs did not work. Praise God. So it was not the intention of God, nor was it the intention of man, but God had made a promise to the man. He said, "Do not worry about it," and I think I tell you this all the time.

Do the best you can. Do not worry about me corre- -- do not get upset if I correct you. Do not get upset. I am saving your life. Do not get upset. Take a right attitude. I love you, I love you, every one of you. I would hate you if I did not tell you. If it is really coming out of you and you do not know it and I did not tell you, I hate you. My Bible says I hate you. So I love you when I tell you the truth. Stay in a right attitude. It is not easy to tell you the truth. I get beat bad sometimes for telling you the truth. It is an act of sacrificial love for you when I tell you the truth. Your carnal mind tries to kill me every time I do it.

So it was not God's desire, nor was it the man's desire, but when he was put to the test, he failed. And God told him, "Do not worry about it. Do the best that you can. If you pass the test, praise God. If you flop on your face, you are going to have a few moments that you are going to cry. But I am going to pick you up, and I am going to clean you off, and I am going to stand you on your feet. And I am going to fill you with my righteousness. I am going to correct the defect that made you fall, and I promise you it will never happen again." That was God's promise. I think it is a in a subsequent verse.

So, you see, it was not God's desire that we should be down here in Hell suffering like we suffer. Neither was it the man's desire, but we have skinned our knee, brethren. We have skinned our knee, and for some of us, that skinned, spiritual knee is more painful than for others. You know, there are people who have lived who have been tortured to death. They've been burned at the stake. They've been skinned alive. There have been physical martyrs of every type. They've been boiled in oil. They've been sawed in half.

And then we have had spiritual martyrs. People have gone insane, Micaiah the prophet who died in jail on a diet of bread and water because he told Ahab the truth. So many have suffered much more than we have suffered. We have had a privileged life in this nation. Even though I am one who has suffered emotionally, severely, I still think that I have had a privileged life compared to a lot of people that I read about. I have never slept on the street. I have never been without food. I have been sick, and the Lord has provided for me every time.

So it was not God's intention that we should be down here in Hell. As hard as it might be to believe, this is a spiritual skinned knee. And the Lord is going -- is fixing us up and is going to fix us up, and we shall be fixed up. And He shall correct the defect which was in man, and it was not really a defect. I have to correct that because the Scripture says that the creation was good. It was not a defect. It was -- does anybody remember the correct word? An immaturity. God will deal with the immaturity of the creation. The creation needed to be matured. Now we -- if he passed the test, he still -- I do not know. I do not know what form it would have taken, but he still would have had to gone through some maturing experiences because he could not stay the way he was even if he passed the test.

And what was he? He was a creation with no experiences. You cannot function without experiences. That is the way God set us up. Maturity is having a whole series of overcoming experiences in -- behind us to back us up so that when we are confronted with a problem, we know how we dealt with it in the past, and we know how to take the victory. So we could not have stayed the way we were at the beginning of time. How God would have matured us b- -- if we did not fall, I do not know, but I believe He could have done it. He had a way to do it, but the man fell. So we are maturing through pain, brethren.

We are learning -- and what does this maturing h- -- mean? We are learning to deal with the evil that we are joined to because this creation is made of light and darkness. If you remember the teachings on the creation when every time the Scripture says, "And the morning and the evening, it was the first day. And the morning and the evening, it was the second day," you may recall that we found out that what God was really saying here was that as He formed the creation, there was a mixture of light and darkness. The Lord called it morning and evening, and the evening and the morning. I think I said it backwards, and the evening and the morning was the first day, saying over and over and over again this creation is a mixture of light and darkness. And this creation shall live when the light, which is in the creation, becomes mature enough to rule over the darkness.

But at the beginning, when the creation -- when the man had had no overcoming experiences, he found out that his light was not strong enough to rule over the darkness. And does not the New Testament say that the children of darkness are wiser than the children of light? But we shall not stay children forever, brethren. We shall mature, and we shall grow up, and we shall become full-grown men in Christ, and we shall rule the darkness with a rod of iron. And she shall serve us, and forever we shall be with the Lord in the light of His glory and His grace, and we shall live in His sight.

So we are working on Romans 8:20. "Because the creation was not subjected to Satan because the Father or the man desired it, but it -- the creation was subjected to Satan in the hope of the other guy, or of Christ, arising in us and subjecting the one who subjected us."

Let me say it again. We were sold unto Satan. We sinned, and we were sold unto Satan. We became subjected to Satan not because God hated us, not because we were punished, but in the hope -- and that word hope means expecting, expecting that even though we are down here in Hell with all this pain and torment, that Christ would arise in us and subject the one who was oppressing us. So, you see, the mature Christ was ordained and destined to arise in humanity whether the man passed the test or whether the man did not pass the test. It was just a question of the circumstances surrounding the birth. But God's plan always was, and now is, that Christ should be born in us and subject the darkness in the earth. Quite a message, huh? Praise God.

Romans 8:21, "Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."

Alternate Translation, "Because the creature itself" -- that is humanity. God sees us as one many-membered creature. "Because the creature itself will be freed from the slavery of corruption" -- that is our condition now, where we are subject to corruption, and God calls that subjection a slavery. We are bound to corruption. Why? Because corruption is a person, just as life is a person and immortality is a person and glorification is a person. Corruption is just another way of saying death, and he is a person, and we are in slavery. We are in bondage. We are bound to Satan by chains of darkness we are told, in one of the epistles of Peter.

"Because the creature itself will be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God." When? When Christ arises in us and subjects the one who is subjecting us. That is what He is going to do. We are going to be delivered out of the slavery of this form of existence into the glorious existence of the children of God.

And what makes us a child of God? The mind that is in us. You see, it sounds wonderful to say, "I received Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior, and I am a son of God." Brethren, you could say it. You could recite that from morning till night for the next 200 years, and it is not going to make you a son of God. You can declare yourself pregnant for the next 200 years, brethren. You must have sexual intercourse with a man. You must conceive, and you must bear that child. For you to be a son of God, His offspring must be in you, and the offspring of God's marriage to a soul is a what? It is a mind. His mind must be in you.

And do not tell me that it is already in you because, if it was, you would not have the problems that you have. You would not ever be sick. You would not be aging. You would not die, and you would be on top of every unhappy circumstance in your life, leading an absolutely unequivocal, victorious life. And I do not know anybody that is doing that, so do not tell me it is in you because it is not.

It is not -- let me correct that. It is not your mind. It is not the mind that gives you existence. The mind that gives us existence right now is the carnal mind. The mind of Christ is in some of us but not as the mind which gives us existence. It is an invading force. It is a new mind that is trying to unseat the existing mind. And because of that condition, we only have access to it. We have access to the mind of Christ, but it has to be called up. And for it to be -- who remembers what has to happen for us to gain access to the mind of Christ? What has to happen to us, anybody? Our carnal mind must be wounded.

When we call upon the name of the Lord for counsel or wisdom, when we say, "Father, I want access to the mind of Christ. I pray it every day. I pray it all the time. Father, how do You see this circumstance? What is Your reaction to this circumstance? What do you think about this circumstance? What is Your answer to this circumstance? What should my thoughts be? What should my mouth say? What should my body do?" When you pray like that, Christ will arise in you and wound your carnal mind. He will make it go down, and Christ will temporarily arise and become your mind, and you will know the answer to all your questions. You will see with Christ's eyes, and you will think, with response to this problem, with His mind. You will hear with His ears, and you will solve the problem with His mind. And when your need has been met, He will go back down, and your carnal mind will arise once again. And this procedure will continue every time you call upon His name and access Him until -- does anybody know until what? Until --

            [INAUDIBLE]

Well, that is close. Until your soul is beheaded. The carnal mind must be guillotined off of your soul so that Christ will be seated permanently on the throne of your heart. The way the Scripture expresses it is on the throne of your heart. Well, I think that is how the Scripture expresses it. Jesus. And the name of that event in your life, do not give me lip service, when it happens to you, when your carnal mind is cut off of your soul and Christ replaces him and becomes y- -- the head of your soul, which is giving you existence, no longer a secondary head, the name of that experience is, anybody?

            [INAUDIBLE]

Full stature. That is what it is, and at that point, you shall cease from sin, in your mind, because you shall have received a mind which is incapable of sin. And that mind which thinks sin has been cut away from you, and your soul shall receive life, and your body shall be preserved. Jesus.

OK, we are still taking Alternate Translations from another message. I combined verses 19 through 21, and I interspersed them and made some changes as follows. "Therefore, the creature is laboring to give birth to the sons which God is eagerly expecting because the creation was not subject to Satan because the Father or the man desired it, but in the hope of the other guy subjecting the one who subjected us. Because the creature itself will be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God."

I guess I decided to do this the long way. And now I have -- I put all those three verses together and made one paragraph out of it to put it in better English, and this is it. Romans 8:19-21, "Therefore, the creature is laboring to give birth to the sons which God is eagerly expecting because neither the Father nor the man desired that the creation be subjected to Satan. Nevertheless, because the Lord has given us the hope that Christ will subject the one who subjected us, the creature will be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God."

Continuing with Romans 8:22, "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." Groaning together is one Greek word, Strong's 4959, and that is pretty much what it means, groaning together. Webster's says to groan means to make a harsh sound under sudden or prolonged strain, strain, brethren, strain. You are not going to sing and dance and one day get caught up to heaven.

Now, for everyone who thinks I am too hard on the church, I am very sorry, but I am here to save your life. You are not going to sing and dance your way into heaven. You have received a lie. You are going to groan and moan and strain and suffer your way into heaven. Amen. And our natural example is childbirth. You are going to have pressure. There is going to be pressure on you, brethren, difficult times, emotional pain, trouble. Paul said, "Trouble on every side," and he was an apostle of God.

To groan, to make a harsh sound under sudden or prolonged strain. Prolonged strain, brethren, prolonged. It goes on, and it goes on, and it goes on. And let me give you a bit of advice. If you wake up one morning and you perceive that the strain is gone, enjoy every second of it because you do not know how long it is going to be gone. Take advantage of every happy moment. Take advantage of every stress-free moment because you do not know when the next wave is coming. In childbirth, we call it a contraction. Do not be deceived, brethren. Until that child is fully born, you shall not stop contracting.

And a contraction is what? Pressure. And what does the doctor tell you to do when you have a contraction? Push. You have got to work with it, or you are killing yourself, and you are killing your baby. And it is that baby Christ child that is going to save your life. But I have got news for you. He is not going to let you stop Him from coming out by not pushing. He is going to beat you because the natural urge is to push, so it would be some ungodly thing in you that would refuse to push or to labor with God to bring forth this new heart in you. It has to be an evil heart of unbelief that does not want to die, so Christ will kill him.

But I tell you, enjoy every second of pleasantry that you have, and [?I?] -- that is not -- it -- that is not bitter. If anyone's trying that spirit out, that is not a bitter spirit. I am telling you the truth. This war is hard. It is troublesome. It is painful. It is grievous. There will be moments that you will be very unhappy. So when you are very unhappy, know that this is just a trail, and it will end, and you shall be happy. And when you are happy, lay hold of it, and do not let go for as long as you have got it because the next contraction is a coming.

And when you are in pain, endure hardness like a good soldier because, brethren, there is no place to run. And once you get the revelation that there is no place to run, it does get easier. There is no place to run. Some people run with their body. They run away from a place God put them in. Some people run with their mind. They refuse to face the problem, but God will just bring you back. Every time you run, He will bring you back. He will bring you back; He will bring you back. So lay into -- put your shoulder into the contraction, brethren. Push it out.

I firmly believe that the more of an effort you put into your labor that the more quickly you w- -- I cannot say the more quickly you will be born because we have to enter into the season, but I believe that those people that really put this effort in, that they gain a dominion over their life that they never had before, and they gain a dominion that a lot of other people do not have. I believe that with all my heart. Everybody does not mature at the same rate of speed, and it is to your benefit to be in a position of authority. What happens when you rise up in authority is that God just sends you to help other weaker people to bring forth Christ in them.

But if you have to be in a war, brethren, I would much rather be in a war in a position of authority than to be in a war where I am being beaten every day. I have experienced both. I was beaten for years, and now I am in a war every day of my life, and I am doing the beating, and I will take this any day. If that is the only two choices I have, I will take this. It is better to be fighting and victorious than fighting and being defeated. Hallelujah.

So we are talking about verse 22, "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." And, remember, that we have had many messages where we found out, mostly from the Old Testament, that the Lord describes man's communication as noise. What we have to say, the thoughts that are expressed through words that come from the carnal mind, God calls it noise. He does not even take it seriously. So we are groaning. We are making noise. That is a sign that we are fallen. OK. Christ does not speak noise. Christ speaks life. He speaks words of life.

And as you ascend in Christ and you speak more and more about the Scriptures, you are going to find fewer and fewer people that you can relate to because most people cannot bear it, speaking about the Scriptures for hours. Most people cannot bear a meeting like this. That is why we [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- we are as small as we are. They cannot bear it. This kind of a message burns people. It exposes their sins. They cannot bear it. So as Christ increases in you, your circle of friends will become smaller and smaller, and the chances are that God will give you a teaching ministry. He will send you to people that might not be able to relate to you on your level but who will be willing to accept small nuggets of truth that you could give them.

Because once you reach a point where Christ is being formed in you, to -- I do not -- I cannot tell you what the measure is. It is a certain point that you have to reach. That is all you are going to want to talk about are the things of God. Everything else will seem so meaningless to you, yet you will have to use the -- to use other subject matters to relate to people who are not where you are. But if you had your choice, you would just want to speak about the things of God all day long. And you will find that as God brings you to a place in your life where you just speak about the things of God all day long, you will be in a much higher place. You will be ascending into heaven, and you will be in a realm of power the likes of which you have never known.

And when you are in that realm, God will bring you things to do. He will bring you ministry. He will have you intercede for people. Now if you have a family or if you have a secular job -- excuse me -- that keeps you down in carnal realms, well, there is nothing much you can do about it. You know, but do not feel bad. I spent a couple of years. I was pretty much in heaven, I am telling you. I was in heaven. I spent two, almost three years, almost my whole waking time in the Scriptures studying, communing with God, getting revelation, and He has pulled me down out of that heaven. I believe it is just for a season. He has given me a work to do in the earth right now. It is very carnal. I cannot say I am thrilled with it, but I am down here. I have nothing to say about being raised up, and I have nothing to say about being taken down, and I am doing the carnal work as faithfully as I can do it in the hope that I shall be restored back up into heavenly places.

So whatever assignment God gives you, brethren, do it faithfully. Try not to be bitter. If you are bound up in carnal pursuits right now, if you see people that seem to have more spiritual opportunities than you do, I encourage you to employ the weapon of confession. It is extremely powerful. Tell the Lord you are envious. Tell the Lord you are frustrated. Confess it. Do not try to hide your sins. Confess it. And who knows? You never know. All things are possible with Christ. You do not know what is going to happen. Do not yield to envy. Do not yield to self-pity. I do not care what your life looks like. All things are possible in Christ. Do not make any judgment that it could never happen to you because you do not know. You do not know what is going to happen to you tomorrow. You do not know. So just tell God how you feel, that you would like it too, and you are frustrated because it looks hopeless because of your family commitments or whatever your situation is. Just confess how you feel and express what you would desire, and then leave it with God. All things are possible with Christ. Jesus, OK.

"And the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." Travaileth means to undergo agony, the kind of agony that a woman experiences in childbirth. So we are groaning together. We are making a harsh sound that comes as a result of sudden or prolonged strain, and we are in agony. We are in agony. And be careful, brethren, because when you enter into this kind of agony, there are going to be people in the professing church that are going to come and rebuke you and tell you that you should not be in agony, that you should not be groaning, that you should be happy and dancing and singing.

But I want to tell you, brethren, these people mean well. They mean well. They just have not experienced what you are experiencing. So you have to go to people that can relate to you, for your counsel and for your prayer, because people who have not experienced what you are experiencing, they have nothing within themselves to give you, and condemnation will come forth. They do not mean it. Nobody means it. Everybody is trying, but condemnation is coming forth because they have not gone through what you are going through.

That is why you are sitting under me, because I have gone through what you are going through or what you are about to go through, and I have overcome. That is why you are sitting under me. I have people coming to me telling me, "Thank God. You are the only person that understands what I am talking about. I have tried to speak to many people about my experiences. They do not know what I am talking. That is why God sent you to me."

See, there is a new experience in the church today. It is likened to childbirth, and we must be very careful that we do not misunderstand these Scriptures. It is one thing to count it joy. That does not mean that you do not experience agony. You have got to get the whole counsel of God, brethren. You have got to get the whole counsel of God. Count it joy when you can, but when you are in agony, are you counting that baby joy when you are in the agony of that childbirth? I do not think many women are. I do not think so. I do not think they are stopping as they are screaming some blood-curdling scream. I do not think they are stopping to say, "I count it all joy." When it is over, they say, "Well, it was worth it." I do not know any woman that would not go through it if it meant she would not have her children. It was worth it. I count it all joy, but when I am being ripped, I do not count that as joy. Does anybody here count it as joy when they are being ripped? OK. Glory to God.

We have got to get this straight. We have got to get it straight. Why do we have to get it straight? Because it is our job to assist the laboring woman. That baby must come forth. We have to learn how to do it. God will teach us. We have to learn how to do it.

Alternate Translation, Romans 8:22, "Because we know that the whole creature is groaning with labor pains until this present time."

So my Bible says that all of the agony that is experienced by humanity is labor pains. What does that mean? Well, all of the pain that we experience down here in Hell is a result of sin in our life and on our family line. So what does that say? That says, to me, that the experiencing sin and the penalty for sin is a labor pain. All things work for the good for those who love the Lord, and do not tell me all these people do not love the Lord. There is something in them that loves God. It just has to be dug up. It is in there. It is in Christ. It is in your dead human spirit. It is in there. So every sin -- excuse me.

The penalty for sin that we experience is a labor pain. And is that not what we have been saying here, that the immature Christ died because of a lack of experience? So every penalty for sin that we experience, every stroke of the rod that we experience as children, every spiritual stroke that we experience, it is a labor pain which is birthing Christ in us. Christ can come in many forms. Strokes that we receive which are penalties for sin are birthing common sense in us, are birthing intelligence in us, are birthing prudence in us, are birthing righteousness in us, are teaching us to choose the good and reject the evil.

Brethren, if you do not beat your children, my Bible says you hate them. If you do not beat your children until they decide to choose the right and reject the wrong, you have failed as a parent. And I want to tell you, if you beat those children and they still choose the wrong instead of the right, God will pick up the rod. I tell you a truth. It might happen 10 or 15 years later after that parent gives up. But I want to tell you that if you name the name of Jesus Christ and you beat that child and do everything that that Bible says and he will not turn, somewhere down the road, five, 10, 15 years later, the Lord Himself is waiting for that child, and He will beat him until he repents. I promise you because my Bible says if you train up a child in the righteous ways of God, when he is hold, he shall not depart from them. Because if you could not do it, by the time God gets through with him, he may be hold, he will be honoring the Lord.

It is a great mystery, brethren. It is a great mystery. God honors your parenting. I do not care how it looks. I do not care if you look like you are the biggest failure. You do what God says to do and trust in Him. And if you did not know what the right thing was to do and you did not find it out until your child was 10 or 15 or 20 or 30, start doing the righteous thing today, and the Lord will back you up.

And if you will not do the righteous thing with regard to your children, He is not likely to back you up. Do not get on your knees and cry, "Oh, Lord, oh, Lord, oh, Lord, oh, Lord." Get up on your feet, and go give that boy a stroke, and then He will back you up. I want to tell you if you are in the corner yelling, "Oh, Lord, oh, Lord, oh, Lord, oh, Lord," and that kid is doing anything that he wants, all "Oh, Lord" is going to do is get on your tail because you are being a bad parent. Ladies, I have been telling you this for a long time. God will not deal with your husband until you get in order. He will not deal with your children until you get in order. I tell you the truth. Do what you have to do.

OK, I have inclu- -- now, remember, verses 19 through 21 are from another message, and I have now interspersed verse 22, which we just did, with verses 19 through 21. It reads as follows. "Therefore, we know that until this present time, the whole creature is groaning because of the labor pains which precede the birth of the sons which God is eagerly expecting because neither the Father nor the man desired that the creation be subjected to Satan. Nevertheless, because the Lord has given us the hope that Christ will subject the one who subjected us, the creature will be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God."

Verse 23, "And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body."

"And not only they, but ourselves also." After studying this phrase in the Greek, I have decided to move the word also to the next phrase. "And not only they, but ourselves," and I am moving the word also into another place. Let me just remind you that the translators of a la- -- of other languages, in particular the Greek and the Hebrew, take much license that the Greek, when you translate it word-for-word is not in good English. And translators -- and the King James translators have taken great measures of license in moving words around and adding words and removing words. I have talked about this a lot over the years. So it is really nothing unusual or illegal for me to move a word like also to another [?verb?].

And as we will find out, in other verses further on, that it is not at all infrequent for the King James translators to take a small word like not and put it in a phrase the changes the entire meaning of the whole sentence, and I think we will find that in verse 24 and 25. They put the negative in the wrong phrase, and when I moved the negative to the next phrase, it changed the whole meaning of the sentence. So let us just go on right now with verse 23.

"And not only they, but ourselves, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves." Groan, 4727, it is a different word. It is a different Hebrew word than groaneth. In verse 22, the word translated groaneth is 4959, and in verse 23, the word groan is 4727. You have to check these words out. You know, if you are a baby Christian, if you are a young Christian and you are just taking the word at surface value, that is fine. If you are just putting the word in you and faith is being built in you, all that is fine, but as you grow up, brethren, as you grow up and when you are ready for it, you cannot take this Scripture right off of the King James. You cannot because this happens. This is -- we have been studying here for years. This happens all the time.

The same Greek word is frequently translated as two different English words, and sometimes two different Greek words are translate as the same English word. And for you to assume that it is the same Greek word is a mistake because frequently it is not, and sometimes there -- it does not mean -- it does not create any big problem, but sometimes it creates a big problem because the entire idea of the verse has been changed. Are the King James translators malicious? Were they malicious? Were they trying to sabotage the Scriptures? No, they did the best job they could do, but they were not spiritual. They were scholars, and they were not perfect, and God let it happen. But for those of us that are moving into deep doctrine and maturity in Christ, we really have to go into the Greek and the Hebrew as God leads us.

So the word groan -- translated groan in verse 23 means to sigh with grief, and in verse 22 it means to groan together. So, "We groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption." The Greek word translated waiting means patiently waiting or eagerly expecting. And, "The redemption of our body." There are several Greek words translated redemption. This is Strong's 629, and this word means to rele- -- a release which is effected by the payment of a ransom.

So let me go over that just for this message and for those of you who need the review. In the natural, if a child is kidnapped and the wealthy father pays a ransom, the thief runs away with the ransom, and the child is returned. But in the spirit, our Father God is paying a ransom for this creation. We have been stolen by Satan who has birthed his mind in us, and our Father God in heaven is paying a ransom, but the ransom is not going with Satan who is running away and returning the creation to us. Satan is remaining in the creation, and the ransom is the Lord Jesus Christ which is being added to the creation and joined to Satan through what procedure, somebody? How is Satan -- well, actually, it is Satan and his offspring the carnal mind, is being joined to the ransom, which is Christ.

            [INAUDIBLE]

Crucifixion, through crucifixion. That was true, but more accurately through crucifixion, OK. Now, look, Satan has stolen the living soul. He is demanding a ransom. The Father God is giving a ransom. His name is the Lord Jesus Christ, but Satan is not running off with the ransom. Satan is being crucified to the ransom, and through that crucifixion, the entire living soul is being given life. Why? Because our life and our righteousness is being fused to us. We are down here in Hell and dying because we are lacking righteousness, and we are lacking our life. It is like saying a child was born dead. The body is there. Every organ is there. All of the spiritual being is there, but they are just not breathing. The breath of life has to be breathed into them. That is what we are.

It is hard for us because we walk, and we talk, and we move around, and we have babies. And we have an experience down here. We have an existence down here. But the spiritual truth is that every child we bear is born dead. We are dead, and every child we bear is born dead. Why? Because this whole place is dead. Everything in it is dead. It is the realm of the living dead, and we are waiting for the breath of life to be breathed into us.

"To wit, the redem-" -- we are waiting for the adoption, "to wit," which means "which is." What is the adoption? The adoption is the redemption of our body. Now let me remind you of something we have been teaching here for quite a while now also. A body is a container that contains something. This physical body is the container of our soul, but from the moment that Christ begins to be formed within the carnal mind -- now let me say that again. Let me say that again. This body, this physical body, is the container of our soul. Right now there is a mind in that soul, but let me remind you it is the mind of the flesh. It is a mind that is made out of the same material as the soul. So Christ is being formed within that carnal mind. From the moment Christ, which is spirit, begins to be formed within that soul, that soul becomes the container of Christ or the body of Christ. Is anybody not following me at this point?

Now, look, the body of Christ is not your physical body. The body of Christ is not the physical bodies of human beings. The body of Christ consists of souls which contain the forming Christ. Is everybody OK? This is very important. This physical body is not the body of Christ. And those who are sick and dying because they cannot discern the body of Christ are sick and dying because they cannot perceive the soul in which Christ is ruling or being formed or manifesting. They cannot perceive Christ in themselves, if He is there, and they cannot perceive Christ in other people. They are going to the wrong people for prayer. They are going to the wrong people for counsel. They are going to the wrong people for teaching, and they are sick, and they are dying because they are looking for big buildings and big money and flowery speeches and degrees from Bible colleges and T.V. programs and large congregations and acceptance by other people. And they are sick, and they are dying.

So the adoption is the redemption of our body, I suggest to you. It is the redemption of the body which contains the mind of Christ. I suggest to you the adoption is the redemption of your soul, brethren. It is not talking about this physical body. This physical body is an expression of who?

            [?Satan?].

Satan. The Scripture calls it the outer court. It is not of God. He has nothing to do with it. He is tolerating it for a season. Why? Because His Son is being incubated in a soul that cannot live without this body. But as soon as Christ, in His people, is mature enough to live without this body, this body will be no more. It is a prison house. It is vile. It is corrupt. It is an instrument for torture and for pain and for torment. It is not of God. So the adoption is the redemption or the giving of life to our soul, those of us in whom Christ is being formed. I was so sure I had something else on this. Maybe I lost it out of the computer. OK, I will just go on.

I always wondered about that word adoption, you know, the adoption of our body. I always wondered about that. The second witness to that is Romans 8:11, which says, "If that Spirit which raised Christ from the dead dwell in you, He will quicken or give life to your mortal body," or your soul, your soul which is mortal, which is not immortal, your soul which is capable of dying. That is the same thing as the adoption of our body. It is the giving of life to the soul which is dead. Because, you see, brethren, there is only one living soul, and it is either dead or alive depending upon the mind which is being expressed through it. If the mind in your soul is carnal, your soul is dead. If the mind being expressed through your soul is Christ, that mind will give life or quicken your soul or your mortal body or adopt your soul. Christ, the mind of Christ in you, shall adopt your soul and give it life.

Is not adoption the giving of life? If you take -- the whole concept of an orphan is that they are dying out there in the world with no one to take care of them, so we are a human race that is an orphan, those of us in whom Christ is not being formed. We have been orphaned. The Father gave us over. Do you know in the Spanish cultures, in the Latin cultures, ev- -- if you still have one parent, if you still have a mother, you are still an huérfanito. You are still an orphan. Is that true? Do you know that? Yeah.

If you do not have a father, you are an orphan because it is going on the basic concept that women -- you know, the way it used to be, women could not earn a living. Women could not really raise their children, so in days past -- it is not true in this country today, but women who did not have a husband but had children, frequently, were beggars in the streets, begging to survive for themselves and their children. So that is the scriptural concept. This living soul has a mother, but we do not have a father. Why? Because Satan cannot be a father. Satan is a what?

            [INAUDIBLE]

She is a female, so we are an orphan unless Christ is being formed in us. So the adoption -- let me say it again. The adoption of our body or the adoption of our soul, the second witness to that is Romans 8:11 whereby, if Christ is raised from the dead in us, Christ will adopt our soul, thereby giving provision and thus life to it. Is everybody OK? OK.

Alternate Translation, Romans 8:23, "And, indeed, not only the whole creature, but we ourselves, having the firstfruits of the Spirit also, having groaned within ourselves, are patiently waiting to be adopted as sons, which is the ransom of our soul."

I amplified that to make it more understandable. Romans 8:23, "And, indeed, not only the whole creature, but we who have the firstfruits of the Spirit" -- this is the apostles speaking. "We who have the firstfruits of the Spirit within ourselves, having labored also" -- you are not exempt from laboring if you are an apostle, brethren. You have to labor to become an apostle because what is an apostle? The definition of apostle is one in whom Christ is being formed. When Christ is being formed in you and begins to manifest in you and your life comes under His dominion and you are being directed by Him, you are doing things and going places under His direction, you become an apostle. That is the definition of apostle.

So Paul is saying, "Not only is the whole creation laboring by having painful experiences, but we ourselves, even though we already have the firstfruits of the Spirit, we also have labored and are patiently waiting for our soul to be ransomed by Christ Jesus, which is our adoption as sons." So let me say it again. Christ Jesus is being formed in the apostles.

Now the apostle Paul -- I am of the opinion that the apostle Paul did attain to full stature. Whether or not he was in full stature when he wrote the Book of Romans, I think he probably was, but I am not sure, OK. So I am -- just for this argument, I am going to say that he was in full stature when he wrote this. Well, if Paul was in full stature when he wrote this, how can he say that he is still waiting for his soul to be ransomed, which is his adoption as a son? Because the ransom is the what? The -- it is the crucifixion. The ransom is the crucifixion. The ransom is Christ, and the giving of the ransom price is the crucifixion of ri- -- of Christ to the carnal mind, OK. And when the carnal mind is crucified to Christ, the carnal mind what? Dies. The carnal mind dies, and Christ becomes the mind of the whole vessel, and the soul receives life. And this is the ransom or the adoption of our soul, which is presently dead.

I have Christ. I have Christ being formed in me. I have lots of fruit that shows I have Christ being formed in me. My soul is still dead. It is not given life until the crucifixion, and the crucifixion does not take place until Christ arises into full stature in me, and He is not in full stature in me. I have Christ, but He is not fully matured yet. Maturation is a process. Just as a woman conceives and there is no signs that she is pregnant, but as the time goes by, there is on big sign that she is pregnant. Amen. Everybody knows what she did, as time goes by.

So we have a lot of people today that have been intimate with the living God, but there is no visible sign that they have had this intimacy. There is no sign coming out of their mouth. There is no sign emanating from their behavior. There is no sign emanating from their thinking, but they, nevertheless, have been intimate with the living God, and His Son is in them. Some of the Scripture says, "Beware, you may be entertaining angels unaware." Be careful who you abuse, and be careful who you mistreat. Much better to treat all men as you would have yourselves be treated. Much better to be fair and decent and honest and to move with integrity in all of your dealings and to be kind and gentle to all men, except where in certain circumstances where a rebuke is necessary, because you never know when you are dealing with a son of God. You cannot tell who is pregnant with the Son of the living God because the one who is pregnant with the Son of the living God, which is a mind, he himself is a son of God. It is a big mystery.

And I want to tell you, brethren, a degree from a Bible college does not make you a son of God. Be very careful. The mind of Christ makes you a son of God. That does not mean you cannot go to a Bible college if you want to, but one thing does not necessarily have anything to do with the other. God will choose His sons, and if you have a thought in your mind that someone cannot be a son unless they did this and they did this and they did this, you are bound by pride, and you shall surely stumble and spiritually die if you do not repent quickly.

Amplified translation, Romans 8:23, "And, indeed, not only the whole creature, but we who have the firstfruits of the Spirit within ourselves, having labored also, are patiently waiting for our soul to be ransomed by Christ Jesus, which is our adoption as sons."

And you might notice that I put that -- I took that word also out of the first phrase, and I put it in the second phrase, which says, "We have labored also." Hmm, I guess I -- OK. I have another amplified translation. Just let me tell you what I am doing here. Sometimes, when I amplify these verses and I put them in more and more understandable English, by the time I finish with it, it does not sound anything at all like the King James. And because I am trying to help whoever is seriously studying with us, I am trying to help you to see how I get these translations. I am trying to minimize any doubt that you might have that I am doing something that is out of order.

So what I do is I take an Alternate Translation where I show you step-by-step how I go from one translation to the other, and I start out by using every Greek word. Sometimes I will take a different translation of that Greek word, and then I ma- -- in this case, I think I have four -- excuse me. I have four amplified translations here because I keep putting it in better and better and better English. And if you want to, you can go back to the first Alternate Translation and see how I got to where I am. That is why I keep -- I give you so many amplified translations.

OK, I did it again, Romans 8:23. I did it two more times. "And, indeed, not only the whole creature, but we also who have labored so that Christ could be formed in us," apostles speaking, "are patiently waiting for our soul to be ransomed by Christ Jesus, which is our adoption as sons."

And the emphasis here is that the apostles have labored also. No one shall enter into the kingdom without labor. By much tribulation, brethren, we enter into the kingdom of God. No one shall enter in without labor. Do not believe this lie that is being preached by the professing church because you will die. You will be like a flower on a tomato plant that never turned into a tomato. I tell you the truth. The Holy Spirit is likened to the flower. You must bear the fruit. Every flower does not bear fruit. Do not be a flower that does not bear fruit. You need to know that every flower does not bear fruit. You need to know that the presence of the Holy Spirit in you is likened unto a flower on the vine. Do not assume that you shall bear fruit. Some flowers fall off the vine, especially after a big storm. Did you ever go out to your garden and see those pretty little yellow flowers laying on the ground? And they will never bear fruit. Do not be fools, brethren. Do not believe this lie that is being preached because that is just what it is.

One more time, verse 23, "And, indeed, not only the whole creature, but we also have labored, apostles also have labored, so that Christ could be formed in us and are patiently waiting, just like you are or will be patiently waiting, for our soul to be crucified to Christ Jesus, which is our adoption as sons."

So what is the apostle saying? He is saying we are no different than you. I am no different than you, with one exception. I am a little more along the path than you are. I am a little more mature than you are, and God has put me here to help you, but we are all having the same experience. That is the bottom line. We are all having the same experience. It is the same experience. That is why I am qualified to help you. I am one or a couple of steps ahead of you, so I can make it easier for you. Brethren, I did not have anyone to make it easier for me. I paid a price to be sitting up here. I did not have anyone to call on the telephone. I did not have anyone to talk to. I did not have anyone to pray for me. I did not have anyone to confirm my revelations to me. I went through Hell for years. I laid on this living room floor on my face saying, "God, if this message is not of You, for God's sake rip it out of me." Jesus.

Please note now that verse 24 -- we are going to start with verse 24 -- begins a whole new line of thought. "For we are saved by hope:  but hope that is seen is not hope:  for what a man seeth, why does he yet hope?" So we see that all of these preceding verses, we are talking about the creation, laboring to give birth to the sons, and now all of a sudden, Paul says, "Because we are saved by hope." It sounds totally different, or I should say not that verse 24 begins a whole new line of thought, but appears to give a whole new line of thought because, I remind you, that hope -- who is hope? What is our hope, somebody?

            [INAUDIBLE]

           

Christ is our hope, right. Christ is the hope of glory. So we could really say, in verse 23 and all those preceding verses, we are talking about the creation laboring to give birth to Christ, and Christ is our hope. But the way it is translated in the King James, it sounds like a whole new train of thought. And I am not against the King James translators, but we must get the truth. We have to have the truth. We have to have the truth, brethren. They did the best job they could.

So we are hearing in the previous verses about the creation laboring and bringing forth Christ. Well, what is this big deal about the creation bringing forth Christ? Well, we are saved by Christ, verse 24. We are saved by Christ. That is why He has to come forth. We are not saved by the Holy Spirit. We are saved by Christ in you, the hope of glory, and they shall be saved in childbearing. He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit. You have to labor unto the birth if you want to be saved. You are not saved when you get the Holy Spirit. It is a lie. It is just one step in the process.

"For we are saved by hope." The Greek word translated for is 1063, and it means "for this reason." Thayer's says that this word can be used to show that the following sentence is giving the reason for the previous sentence. For this reason, then -- for what reason? For this reason, we are saved by hope. For what reason? So that we can be adopted as sons. We are waiting and hoping so that we can be adopted as sons. We have to get Christ being formed in us because He is the hope of this soul realm, glory, this soul realm. And when Christ is formed in us, He is going to give life to our soul, and then He is going to be joined to the carnal mind, and we shall be saved, got to get Christ. I do not see Holy Spirit here. You have got to get Christ. They are not the same. Christ is the Son, is the mature Son, and the Holy Spirit can be likened to sperm that will eventually produce a son. You are not saved by a sperm, brethren. You do not have much of an existence as a sperm. You have got to grow up and become a man. You have to become an adult to have any kind of life. A life has no exis- -- sperm -- what kind of a life does a sperm have? It has to join with the female seed.

Hope is Strong's 168. Thayer's says it means expectation of good, but we know that Christ is the hope of glory. Colossians 1:27, "To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles." It is a mystery, "which is Christ in you, the hope of glory," the hope of this soul realm. The only thing that is going to save this soul realm out of this realm of -- the only hope that is going to save the living soul, which is down here in Hell, is the formation of Christ in you. It is the hope of this whole soul realm. My Bible does not say the Holy Spirit. It says Christ in you. They are not the same. You have got to open your eyelids, brethren. God does not say Holy Spirit in one place and Christ in another place because He does not have anything better to do. They are not the same.

The church is filled with Christians that want to believe they have got it all, that they have got this Holy Ghost. They have not paid any kind of a price to get it. It was a free gift, and they want to think they are going to go sleigh riding through. Well, they are not, brethren. It is fun making that baby, but one morning, you wake up, and you are carrying a burden. And when that burden is born, it becomes a bigger burden, and you carry it for years. It is fun getting the Holy Ghost. The gifts of the Spirit is fun. They are fun, the gifts of the Spirit, but one morning you are going to wake up and find yourself pregnant, and that baby gets heavier and heavier and heavier.

And the more Christ matures in you, the heavier He gets until He crushes everything that you are in this carnal world and swallows it up, until there is nothing left of you, but all that there is, is Him. And that sounds like a tragedy to you, but in that tragedy, to the carnal mind, is born the life of the ages. You just think it is a tragedy. It is not a tragedy. It is the best thing that ever happened to you from the day that you were born.

Thayer says -- oh, I read that already, OK. Please remember that Christ appears in three stages. His most immature stage -- does anybody remember what He is called at the very beginning?

            [INAUDIBLE]

No, I am talking about Christ being formed in you. What is He called at the -- what is the very first stage, anybody?

            [INAUDIBLE]

The engrafted word. It can be likened to a male sperm cleaving unto a female ovum. There is no external sign. Usually the woman does not even know herself. But when the two cells join, they join so completely, they become the first cell of a new baby. This is the engrafted word, which is the Holy Spirit engrafts to your human spirit, and once that joining takes place, the name of the Holy Spirit, which is the sperm of God, changes to the engrafted word. Why? Because it is now engrafted. When it is -- when the seed of God is the Holy Spirit, it is not engrafted. It is the seed or the sperm of God. When the seed of God engrafts to your human spirit, it is no longer the Holy Spirit. That is the name of the seed of God that is unattached. Now that it is attached, the name of the seed of God changes to the engrafted word. Is everybody OK?

The engrafted word is an immature manifestation of Christ. It is a manifestation of Christ which is not manifesting as a warrior. The engrafted word is not the spirit of might. He is not a warrior. You do not even know He is there. Lots of times, you do not even know that He is there. He is the very beginning stages of Christ. The second stage we will call Christ Jesus. He is the mature Christ who is manifesting as the warrior spirit of might, and Christ Jesus, in a manifestation that is a warrior, has a span. It is just like saying you are a teenager from 13 to 19 years of age. When the engrafted word matures to a place where that engrafted word now becomes a warrior, His name changes. He becomes Christ Jesus, but Christ Jesus of a 19-year-old is much stronger than Christ Jesus of a 13-year-old. Why? Because Christ Jesus at 19 years old has had many overcoming experiences, and He has all of the strength behind Him of everything that He has learned. He has all the muscles that He has developed from all of the warfare that He has practiced.

So, once again, we can have two believers, both w- -- manifesting Christ Jesus, both manifesting a Christ who is engaged, actively engaged, in warfare. We have two spiritual males here, but one is dominant [AUDIO CUTS OUT] -- supposed to submit to the more dominant manifestation of Christ. Before you can submit or before you can make a judgment as to which human being has the most mature manifestation of Christ, you must be able to discern Christ, and you must be able to recognize the signs of His maturity. And then you must have enough dominion over your pride to not let it stop you from seeing the instances in which you are the one to submit to the more dominant or the more mature Christ.

So the Bible says [AUDIO CUTS OUT] -- but there are certain circumstances under which you do not submit. What kind of circumstances would you refuse to submit under? Circumstances that concern righteousness. You do not submit to someone who is trying to force [?their?] unrighteousness [?on?in?] you. [AUDIO CUTS OUT]

Brethren, you have to think. We are coming out from under the law. We have to think. When a group of spiritual males get together, there is always a head. Any gathering of the body of Christ has a head over it. I spoke to someone not too long ago that has an end-time group like this in another state, and she was telling me how they never invite anybody to preach there because they have body ministry. It sounded wonderful when I first heard it, until I later on found out that she was letting anybody say whatever they want to say. Brethren, you have body ministry when it is Christ that is manifesting in everybody, but if you have people who cannot recognize that they are not manifesting but they are manifesting the carnal mind, somebody must be ordained as head to tell them in a loving way, "Brethren, that is not Christ, and you are going to have to stop."

If you do not have a God-ordained authority to do that, you will have chaos in the meeting, and not only will you have chaos, but the meeting will be stolen or usurped by the carnal mind. He will set himself up. He will erect his bones. He will set himself up over the meeting, and he will have full reign of what was meant to be unto God's glory. What an abomination? Body ministry does not meant that you get a group of people and everybody does whatever they want to do. It must be Christ manifesting through the people.

And in this hour, I have yet to see -- that does not mean it is not there, but I have yet to see a group of believers gather where everybody is so mature that nobody manifests the carnal mind ever because, when that happens, you no longer need a head. I have not seen it happen yet. It will happen someday. I have not seen it yet. We are still in training. We are still learning, so we need a head. Some places in the world, they would call it a moderator to just see that everything is in line and make sure that someone's carnal mind is not trying to bully its way in and take over the meeting without the person realizing it. That is where we are.

So this woman does not have body ministry. She has chaos. I have a whole message on this, "Signs of Spiritual Manhood." It is essential if you want to function in the body of Christ. If you want to be a son, brethren, if you want to be a member of the two witnesses company, you must know your place. Everybody has a place, and your place changes. With one group of believers in one situation, your place is one thing, and in another place, your place is something else. In this meeting, I am the head, but I go visit somebody in their home, I shut my mouth. It is their home. I go to visit another ministry, even if I think they are out of order or they are not manifesting Christ, I am in their house. It is their ministry. I submit.

You have to know when you are an authority and when you submit, and if you do not know, do not be embarrassed. Just confess it. Confess it. It is a weapon. Confession is a weapon. Tell the Lord you just do not know. He will teach you, and He will probably teach you by experiences, and He will probably -- at least part of it, if not the whole thing, will be me showing you. That is the way He set it up. I am sorry, but it has to come naturally through you. And every time I come to you and I say to you, "You did something wrong," or, "You were out of order," or, "That was your carnal mind," I am wounding your carnal mind. I am wounding that power in you, and I am sowing Christ into you. When I come to you and do that and you submit to it, I am sowing the seeds into you that will sprout and will be your ability to have this knowledge yourself. That is what is happening here. It is got to come forth from within you.

Either you have it or you do not. If you do not have it, get it. You want wisdom, brethren? Ask God, He who gives to all liberally. It is His desire for you. Do not be discouraged. You come out one morning. You break the ground, and you drop a seed into it. You have to wait expectantly for that seed to sprout. Do not be discouraged. It will come.

And the third stage in which Christ appears is the fully born Christ, and in the New Testament, we call Him glorified. What does that mean? He no longer needs a body. You see, when Christ is fully born -- we are His womb. When Christ is fully born, He exit out -- exits out of His womb, and He no longer needs the womb or the amniotic sac. He no longer will need this body. So in the New Testament, we call that glorification. Jesus exited. I should not say Jesus. Christ, in the man Jesus, came into a condition where he no longer needed the human body of Jesus of Nazareth to live. He became a glorified man. The body of Jesus of Nazareth was swallowed up, and now this glorified Christ can take any form that He wanted. He appeared as Jesus of Nazareth with the holes in His hands and His feet, but He also took many other forms. He was a glorified man, a man who was superior to Jesus Christ, Jesus the Christ. Jesus the Christ evolved into a higher measure of the godhead, in fact the highest measure of the godhead, pure spirit yet with an ability to take human form.

In the Old Testament, this condition is called -- does anybody remember? We found it in Daniel 7. And this condition of being so spiritually mature that you do not need a body -- a fallen body like this to survive, it is called the Ancient of Days. He appears in Daniel 7. You have a body, but it is a glorified body that can take any form you tell it to take. Jesus of Nazareth, who was Christ, had a mind which was born of God, and His soul had received life, but He was still trapped inside of a fallen body.

So the third stage in which Christ appears is the stage in which He ascends to such a high place that He no longer needs this fallen body to survive. And it is likened to a fetus that no longer needs his mother's body to survive. And that does not include a premature baby who goes into an incubator, so pretty much a baby has to be at least eight months, to the best of my knowledge, maybe some seven. I am not -- I am excluding an incubator now. For that baby to be born and survive outside of the womb and outside of the mother's body, pretty much it has to be at least eight months in utero. Is that not true, at least eight months? Perhaps a seven-month child could survive, but mostly you have to be at least eight months.

Now please notice that the natural baby, the human baby, is encased in an amniotic sac which is encased within a human body. And Christ is encased in the carnal mind, which is likened to the amniotic sac, which is within a human body. So Christ in us, at some point, will exit both our carnal mind and our human body and be able to live without it, and that is the fullest measure of maturity of Christ. There is an evolution of the godhead, and I do not care how much you Pharisees scream. It is still true. Jesus was the Son of God, but He said, "The Father is greater than I," and in glorification, Jesus became one with the Father.

Are you all OK? Everybody OK? I feel that you are OK. We will go on. I -- if I can, I will finish this. If I feel that I am losing you, I will stop. I did verses through -- 24 through 27. It is three more verses we have to do.

Verse 24, "For we are saved by hope:  but hope that is seen is not hope:  for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?" I do not know about you, but that really does not make much se- -- it never did make much sense to me, so let us try and pull this apart. The word -- Greek word translated saved is 4982, and it means to be made whole, to be rescued from danger.

"For we are saved by hope:  but hope that is seen is not hope:  but what a man seeth." Those two words, seen and seeth, they are the same Greek word, 991, and it means to look, and there is another word in the Greek which would make it legitimate to translate these words to look for. Well, I do not know about you, but to say to see, to me, is very different than to say to look for because, to me, seeing is almost an involuntary act. I am just sitting here, and I see you. But to look for something, that is a totally different word. And I suggest to you that the correct translation of this word for verse 24 should be to look for.

We are looking for something. What are we looking for? We are looking for Christ. Well, maybe He is in there. Well, I do not know whether you conceived or not. I will have to get you a sonogram. I do not know. Sometimes I see signs which will say to me, "Well, I think I see signs that you have conceived," but do not be discouraged if I do not see any signs because that does not mean that you haven- -- the fact that I do not see it does not mean that you have not conceived. Because when you first conceive, you cannot see it, so you have to look for it. That is what this verse is all about.

Because we are saved by Christ. Hope is Christ. "But hope that is not seen is not hope." Well, that negative is in the wrong place. So let me -- I am just going to take this straight from my notes. This is -- this verse 24 is why God did not let me preach this message for three meetings. I had missed the whole significance of verses 24 and 25. OK.

The interlinear says hope -- but, well, OK, let me give you this again. The King James says, "For we are saved by hope:  but hope that is seen is not hope." Now the interlinear says, "Hope but being seen is not hope." Let me say it again so you can hear the difference. The King James says, "But hope that is seen is not hope." It sounds like, if I could see this thing, then it is not hope, that faith has to be based on some hazy, nebulous thing. I just believe. I just believe. Why? Because I just believe. Is that not what it sounds like?

            [?Mm-hmm?].

That is not what the Greek says. The Greek says the exact opposite. "But hope that is seen is not hope." The interlinear says, "Hope but being seen is not hope." Now the Greek word translated is -- "hope but being seen not is hope." I think I read that to you wrong. "Hope but being seen not is hope." That Greek word translate is, it is in the infinitive form. Now we have had this before. Frequently, in the Greek -- well, the infinitive form is -- the infinitive form of a verb is an unconjugated verb. To conjugate a verb means to break it down to say I am, you are, he, she or it is, we are, they are, you are. I have just conjugated the verb, to be. I have given it a personal pronoun and the form that goes with that personal pronoun. Is everybody with me? OK.

It is not at all unusual for the Greek to not conjugate a verb. [?It?] just sticks it in there in the middle of a sentence in the infinitive form. And the way we know that a verb is in the infinitive form, that it does not tell you. It is a secret. It does not tell you whether it is saying we, he, she, it or you, but it says to be. Now you guess whether I am talking about he, she, it, you, we or us. Everybody following me? OK.

So this word translate is, it is in the infinitive form. The Greek does not tell us who it is talking about. That means that the translator has the freedom to decide which person the Holy Spirit was talking about. Now why does this happen? I -- it is been my experience that the deeper the mystery that the Lord is bringing forth, the more likely the verbs are to be unconjugated. Why? Because it is hidden. It is a secret. It is not for everybody to understand. And if you do not get it by the Spirit, you are either not going to get it, or you are going to get it wrong.

So this word translated is, is not conjugated. I am going to suggest to you then that the phrase, "Hope but being seen not is hope," should be translate as a question. Let me remind you also that there is no punctuation in the Greek. There is no commas. There is no periods. There is no capitalization. There is no question marks. And I want to suggest to you that this phrase should have been a question and that for whatever their reason, the King James translators did not perceive it to be a question.

Let me show you what it will sound like as a question. Let me read it to you in the interlinear again. "Hope but being seen not is hope. But how can hope, which is not seen, be hope?" OK [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- listen to this. King James says, "But hope that is seen is not hope," which means you are not supposed to see it, King James. Vitale says -- what can I tell you? The Lord says, "But how can hope which is not seen be hope?" the exact opposite because they put that word not in the wrong place. They put the negative in the wrong place, so it came out with the King James saying that if you could see hope, it is not hope. There is supposed to be some fuzzy, hazy, spiritual person flying in the clouds just believing but not knowing what you are believing because you have hope. But I suggest to you that the not, that negative, should be put in another place, that the phrase should be a question and that it should be saying, "But how can hope which is not seen be hope?"

Brethren, how can you have hope if you do not know what you are hoping for? You have to know what you are hoping for. God has not called us to be a bunch of spiritual freaks floating around the street saying, "Hallelujah. I am waiting for some miracle, but I do not know what." He want you to know what you are hoping for, and it is not a mansion in heaven with streets of gold and an Italian dinner. It is just not. How do I know that? God is a spirit. He does not need a house to live in. He does not have feet, so you do not streets of gold to walk on, and the whole thing is just a fairy story. I do not know about you, but I gave up Santa Claus a long time ago.

So we see the professing church teaching that the only true hope is based upon a faith which gives us no clear vision of God's intentions for us. But very much on the contrary, brethren, I suggest to you that the correct translation of the second phrase of Romans 8:24, "But hope that is seen is not hope," should be the exact opposite of the professing church's doctrine, and that is, "But how can hope that is not seen be hope?"

How can you hope for what you cannot see? Brethren, how can you hope for what you cannot see? I like that couch. I want one just like it. How can you hope for what you cannot see? "Without a vision, brethren, My people perish." You know, the church that I was raised up in had that Scripture on a big banner across the top of the pulpit. I read that thing every time I was in church for years and never knew what it meant. For years, I never knew what it meant. Brethren, how can you hope if there is nothing that you want? How can you hope if you cannot see the promise?

So if you cannot see the promise, you hope for something that is not even real. You hope that you will not go to Hell after you die. You hope that you will go to heaven, and your Father in heaven will give you a Cadillac. You will never realize those hopes, brethren, because they are not something that was promised to you by God.

We have a whole church going out there and exercising faith, charging hundreds of dollars on credit cards because they have faith that God will pay the bill. You fool, get ready for bankruptcy court. You have to have faith that is based upon a promise that God has made to you. If you are dying and God says, "I will heal you. Serve Me," you drag yourself for the next 14 years because God has said He will heal you, and you believed Him, so you survive for the next 14 years. Brethren, you have to have a vision. You have to have a promise. How can you have faith without a vision?

We must understand what God is promising us. He wants us to understand what He is promising us. Why? Because if we do not understand what He is promising us, as sure as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, our carnal mind will convince us of some ridiculous thing that God has promised us, which is a lie. We do not exist in a vacuum, brethren. Where Christ does not speak, the carnal mind will fill in. Where there is an absence of knowledge, error will jump in. Where there is an absence of truth, the lie will jump in.

There is no vacuum in this creation, brethren. Do you know what a vacuum is? A vacuum is emptiness. If Christ does not give it to you, it does not remain empty. If I have a glass of water, it is now half full and half empty. Well, that is not a good example. If I put this glass in the ocean, this glass will not remain half empty because if I put this glass in the ocean and the ocean was flowing over the top of the glass, there would be water on top and water in the glass, and that would be a vacuum. This empty area of the glass would be a vacuum. There is no vacuum in this world. The seawater would dump into the glass and fill it up.

So sometimes Christ does not speak right away. Sometimes Christ does not speak clearly. Sometimes He speaks right away, and He speaks clearly, and we are so dumb we do not understand what He is talking about. And the carnal mind gets right in there with her lies. God wants us to understand His purposes for us, and He wants us to expect them to happen to us. Do not you go around saying, "Oh, it is not happening to me. Oh, it is not happening to me." He wants you to expect it to happen to you.

So now remember that the Greek word translated seen can be also translated to look, so now we can say, "But how can hope that is not looked for be hope?" You have to be looking for it, brethren. You have to get the message of His intentions towards you, and you have to be looking for it. You have to be wanting it. You have to be asking for it. You have to be praying for it. Do not just go around living your life dancing down the streets waiting for some rapture somewhere.

Romans 10:14, 15 and 18, "How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him whom they have not heard -- of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear about Him and His promises without a preacher? And how shall they preach? How are the preachers going to preach, except they be sent?"

So you better be getting your message from a sent preacher because the church is filled with preachers that were not sent. They just got up and went. And there is all kinds of doctrines in the church, and that is why, because every preacher is not sent. So if you get your doctrine from a sent preacher, you are going to find out what God's purposes are for you and what His intentions are towards you. And once you hear that message, you can start hoping for it because you have now seen it. You have seen what He intends to do for you. He intends to raise you from the dead. Now you can hope for it.

I hope to be raised from the dead. I hope. I have faith for the day that this body will no longer be a torture instrument. I live, and I hope, and I believe for the day. I have faith for the day that the mind of Christ shall give life to my soul and preserve my body. I have heard the message. I believe it, and I hope for it.

"How shall they preach, except they be sent? As it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" Brethren, please note that the message in the course today, overall -- in the church today, by and large, is the gospel of the cross. It is the gospel of what happened to Jesus. It does not teach about what is about to happen to us. It is good to learn about what happened to Jesus. That is a good message. Knowledge is always good, and there is spiritual power in that message. But for us to have hope, we need to hear the message of what God's intentions are towards us, and that is not in the gospel of the cross.

But we are told, in Romans 10:15, that message is called the gospel of peace. And I remind you that Paul says, "Satan shall shortly" -- Satan? "the God of peace shall shortly bruise Satan under your feet." Brethren, God makes peace in only one way. God never negotiates. God does not negotiate. God either converts or destroys every enemy. That is how He makes peace. Either you convert over to His side, or He kills you. Wake up.

Verse 18, "Where there is no vision, the people perish:  but he that keepeth the law, happy is he." Jesus.

Alternate Translation, Romans 8:24, "For this reason, then, that we should be adopted as sons, we were being rescued from the death of this existence by Christ, but Christ is not being seen. So why, then, does anyone look for Him, and why also does anyone expect good things?"

Do you not hear it, brethren, every day, 2,000 years since the crucifixion, the resurrection and the ascension? Where is He? What happened to Him? It was a phony. It was a farce. Look at the hypocrisy in the church. Look at the sin in the church. Show it to me in the Scripture, all the wiseacre comments. Christ cannot be seen. Well, 2,000 years, and Christ cannot be seen. So what are we looking for Him for, and why should we expect good things that are promised by Him?

Amplified translation, "So, then, the engrafted word was rescuing us from the death of this existence, that we should be adopted as sons. But since the immature Christ cannot be seen, why would anyone look for the mature Christ Jesus or expect the good things which are associated with His life?"

Verse 25, "But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it." Webster's says that hope also means trust. Now you may notice that somet- -- this word hope, it is used several times. Sometimes I am translating it Christ. Sometimes I am translating it to expect good things, and now in verse 25, we may be translating it trust. And trust -- Webster also says trust means assured reliance upon the character, ability, strength or truth of someone or something, assured reliance.

So they have used this same word several times, and they have translated it hope all the time. And I do not know about you, but these verses always confused me. So we are j- -- I am just going by the Spirit and translating that Greek word, which means hope, either Christ, hope, the expectation of good things or a trusted reliance on someone's character. All are legitimate translations of the same word.

"But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it." The Greek word translated patience is 5281, and we translated that word endurance in -- both in Revelation 13:10 and Revelation 14:12. We worked up those Alternate Translations on t- -- well, the first one, Revelation 13:10, we worked up an Alternate Translation on message number 166, part 4, and that is "The First Beast." And Revelation 14:12 we worked up the Alternate Translation on message 75, part 3. That is "The Angel Flying in the Midst of Heaven." I am going to read you those Alternate Translations. Now if you should decide to review the messages where we worked this up, you might notice that I made some minor changes. Just -- I just more or less updates these Alternate Translations in accordance with the more recent revelation with j- -- they are just minor changes.

Revelation 13:10, translating the word patience as endurance. "The men who are maturing from Adam into Christ" -- that is us. We are maturing from Adam into Christ -- "must ha-" -- now this is what you need to mature from Adam into Christ. "You must have a moral conviction that Christ shall appear in your human spirits, thus making the destruction of sin and the abolishment of death a personal reality for you. And you must also consistently endure the warfare between Christ and the carnal mind which shall result in your new state of being."

Patience and endurance, that is a big difference. "You must consistently endure the warfare between Christ and the carnal mind." Brethren, you are not inheriting this new life by just walking around the street. There is a price to pay. The free gift is Christ, and once He arises in you, the war begins, and that is the price that you have to pay.

Well, I would like to read that again including verse 9. This is Revelation 13:9-10, Alternate Translation, "If there is any man who is capable of understanding spiritual things, then let him understand that Satan, who incarnates men so that they can be his prisoners in this realm of appearance, must himself become a prisoner of Christ, and that the carnal mind who kills men, by causing them to sin, must be killed because he has sinned. The men who are maturing from Adam into Christ, therefore, must have a moral conviction that Christ shall appear in their human spirits, thus making the destruction of sin and the abolishment of death a personal reality for them. And they must also consistently endure the warfare between Christ and the carnal mind, which shall result in their new state of being."

Revelation 14:12, Alternate Translation, "The righteous spiritual condition of the men who are being resurrected out of this realm of death is resulting from their consistent endurance" -- that is the word patience -- "their consistent endurance in the warfare between Christ and the carnal mind. This is the spiritual state of mind which protects us from the thoughts of the carnal mind which result in death. The thoughts of our carnal mind are killing us, and it protects us from them by exercising God's rules concerning sinful thoughts and behavior. And it is the spiritual place where men faithfully and consistently agree with the mind of Christ."

So this word patience, we have found two other witnesses, is intimately associated with the endurance that is necessary to wage this warfare against our carnal mind. It is a long war. It goes on for a long time. We are told in the Old Testament that David's war was a long war before he inherited the throne of Israel. It is a long war. You have to endure hardness like a good soldier. You cannot be a little baby, brethren. If you are a little baby, God is going to grow you up. It is a long war.

So continuing with Romans 8:25, "But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it." W- -- "Do we with patience wait for it." The Greek word translated wait is Strong's 553, and it means to eagerly expect. This is the same Greek word translated waiteth in verse 19 where we translated it eagerly expecting.

Alternate Translation, Romans 8:25, "Because by understanding God's intentions and promises towards, we can eagerly expect what we cannot see at this time. We will be able to endure the hardships which precede His appearance." Something is wrong there. "Because by understanding God's intentions and promises towards us, we can eagerly expect what we cannot see at this time and be able to endure the hardships which precede His appearance, if we rely on Christ's strength."

What did I do here? Oh, God. "But if we hope for that we see not, then we do with patience eagerly expect it then" -- oh, I see what I did. Can I borrow your pen, please? Thanks. "Because by understanding God's intentions and promises towards us, we can eagerly expect what we cannot see at this time and be able to endure the hardships which precede His appearance."

I did not note down how this verse reads in the interlinear Greek. I should have done it, and I apologize, but apparently I came up with this Alternate Translation. I do not have it to read it to you now, but I came up with the Alternate Translation as follows. "Because by understanding God's intentions and promises towards us, we can eagerly expect what we cannot see at this time and be able to endure the hardships which precede His appearance, if we rely upon Christ's strength."

Well, I am sorry. I will try to get you the interlinear text on this for the next message. We have one more message on this. I cannot do anything more for you now. I will just make myself a note here. I amplified that verse 25. "Because by understanding God's intentions and promises towards us" -- see, this phrase here, for we -- for what we see, well, I am going to let it go. I will just comment on it on the next message.

"Because by understanding God's intentions and promises towards us, we can endure the hardships of our spiritual labor and eagerly expect Christ to appear in us, if we rely upon His strength." Well, I will go over it on the next message. I will tell you how I got that.

2 Timothy 2:3 and Romans 5:3-5 are second witnesses to Romans 8:25. 2 Timothy 2:3 says, "Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ." Romans 5:3-5 says, "But we rejoice in our hardships as well, understanding that trouble builds endurance." Trouble builds endurance, brethren. Do not hate the trouble. Trouble builds the endurance, and without endurance, you are never going to wage this warfare that is going to kill your carnal mind and let you enter into life. Hear that, Kathy?

            [INAUDIBLE]

Trouble builds endurance, Kathy.

            [INAUDIBLE]       

OK. "So we rejoice in our hardships as well." Now, look, if you are not rejoicing in your hardship when you are going through it, do not let anyone condemn you. It is hard to rejoice in hardship, to say it is wonderful when you are going through it. I do not rejoice when I am going through it. I usually yell very loudly, those of you that know me. But after it is over, I say it was worth it. I say look what I learned. Look at how I have grown. I know it was for my good. I thank God for the trial, would not want to go through it again, but I thank God for the trial. OK, so do not condemn yourself if you are not rejoicing when you are in pain.

"But we rejoice in our hardships as well, understanding that trouble builds endurance and that endurance shall be tried." Your endurance shall be tried, brethren. Trials are going to come your way, and we are going to see how long you stand under how much pressure. Pressure is not coming off, Kathy. The pressure is on, and it is not coming off, and you are supposed to be getting stronger because of the pressure. And guess what? The stronger that you get, the more pressure. The stronger that you get, the more pressure, OK, because you are supposed to get very strong.

"So your endurance shall be tried by experiences which shall prove whether we are fallen Adam or Christ, and that responding to those experiences out of our Christ mind shall not dishonor us but rather produce an expectation of good things from God because the gift of God, which is the Holy Ghost, is poured out into our carnal minds as an expression of God's love."

Verse 26, hang in there. We are almost done. Are you OK? I could stop now if you want me to. Everybody OK? OK.

Verse 26, "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities:  for we know not what we should pray for as we ought:  but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings" -- [AUDIO CUTS OUT]

The Greek word translated likewise can also be translated in the same manner. In what same manner? The Spirit of Christ cannot be seen any more than Christ can be seen, but just as Christ gives us understanding which produces endurance, the interceding Spirit of Christ gives us strength to overcome our weaknesses. You cannot see it, though. It just happens. I know it happens with me. I feel like I am drowning, I feel like I am drowning. I cry out to God, and I am just coping. I cannot see that Spirit. I just know that I increase.

So in this immature stage, we cannot see Christ, and we cannot see the Spirit of Christ. Nevertheless, Christ produces understanding. Christ in me is giving you what I believe the true doctrine -- it may not be perfect because I am not perfect, and it may be off in shades, but it is the true doctrine. And Christ in you has to be receiving it. You could not be receiving this doctrine if Christ was not in you. You could not be understanding it. I do not believe it. So Christ gives you understanding, and the Spirit of Christ gives you power to overcome your weaknesses. Why? Because He is expo- -- Christ is exposing your weaknesses. He is not exposing your weaknesses so you should be condemned. He is exposing your weaknesses so that you should overcome them. So He also -- the Spirit of Christ gives you the overcoming power.

"So as Christ gives us understanding which produces endurance, the interceding Spirit of Christ gives us strength to overcome our weaknesses." Please note that the intercession of the Spirit of Christ is not limited to any one vessel. The Spirit of Christ -- Christ is not divided, brethren. Christ is not divided. That means, when the Scripture says to you, "The Spirit of Christ will help you to overcome your weaknesses," it could be Chri- -- the Spirit of Christ arising in you, or it could be the Spirit of Christ arising in me. It could be me helping you to overcome your weaknesses through encouragement, through counsel, through beatings, through rebukes.

Brethren, whippings make you strong. I want to tell you it is the truth. It is the truth, physically, with our children, and it is the truth spiritually. Tongue lashings in Christ as well as physical lashings to your -- the physical body of your children weaken your -- the sin in you. Sin is called weaknesses in you. The beating of that sin weakens it and gives Christ in you a chance to rise up in that area. I tell you the truth. In this hour, as the judgment of the cur- -- of the church falls, it falls with heavy judgment because judgment is the only thing that will bring forth Christ in your soul. Your carnal mind must be whipped. That is the job of the two witness company. And as soon as your internship is completed, you will have disciples whom you will be judging, but do not go out before Christ sends you because then it is witchcraft.

But that is what is happening. The church is under judgment. The judgments of God are merciful. They are killing your carnal mind. The whole problem is it feels like it is killing you. That is the whole problem. You have to have this understanding in your head, brethren. It is important. It is going to get you through, to know that it is killing the carnal you, but there is a new you standing on the horizon, ready to jump in and be your life.

Isaiah said, speaking for Israel, "If the Lord had not saved a tenth of us, we would surely have perished." Everything that is not of God, which is almost all of us, must be destroyed. It is only that tenth, that seed of Christ in us, that is going to survive and regenerate the whole creation. Excuse me a minute. [?Freezing in here?].

So the two witness company in this hour is actively involved in strengthening the infantile sons to overcome their weaknesses by beating them, spiritually with the -- verbally beating them. I tell you the truth. As well as giving them the understanding which is enabling them to endure hardship.

"Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities." Helpeth, 4878, can be translated to take hold of another. So the Spirit of Christ helpeth our infirmities, lays hold of our infirmities. And, brethren, when the Spirit of Christ or any manifestation of God lays hold of sin, righteousness is not corrupted. Sin is neutralized. What does that mean? It cannot function. So the Spirit of Christ lays hold or joins Himself to our sins and prevents them from operating. Infirmities, weaknesses of human nature.

"But the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us." Maketh intercession is one Greek word. It means intercedes. "With groanings which cannot be uttered." Groanings -- the Greek word translated groanings means sighs and groans. "Which cannot be uttered." The intent of that word is that they cannot be expressed in words. OK, now, brethren, I know for a long time, I thought that is Scripture was speaking about the Holy Spirit and the speaking in tongues. But I want to suggest to you that this is not speaking about tongues, and I will tell you why.

Now remember the sounds of the Holy Spirit are described as utterances, tongues and or languages, but the sounds of the Spirit of Christ are described as groanings which cannot be uttered. This verse is not speaking about tongues. Did you not always think it was speaking about tongues? Did you hear what I just said? It is the -- it is right there in front of your nose. It is just that you are not thinking that way, so you do not see it. It is even in the King James here. "Groanings which cannot be uttered."

            [INAUDIBLE]

Which cannot be expressed in words. Also, we found out earlier groanings are sounds which are produced under strain, and I suggest to you that the utterings of the Holy Spirit are not brought forth under strain or stress and that this Scripture is speaking about the groanings and sighs of believers who are experiencing great tribulation in their lives. And I want to tell you, brethren, I have experienced it. I groan. I moan. I have come out of a heavy battle recently, just laying on the couch and just moaning.

Alternate Translation, Romans 8:26, "And, also, in the same manner, the Spirit of Christ helps us to control our weaknesses because we do not know what to pray for. But the Spirit of Christ intercedes for us with moans and sighs which cannot be expressed in words."

Amplified translation, verse 26, "And, also, in the same manner, the Spirit of Christ intercedes for us with moans and sighs which cannot be expressed in words but which helps us to control our weaknesses because we do not know what to pray for."

Brethren, I have been teaching you this here. I have been trying to teach you this here for months, for months. Brethren, we do not know what to pray for. We have a whole church world out there that thinks they know what to pray for. They have the Holy Ghost. That every go up to somebody. Someone says, "I have a -- this problem. Will you pray for me?" And they, instead of just praying, waiting on the Lord or praying for God's will, because people do not understand -- I am not indicting anybody. People have not been taught properly. They think that in their carnal mind, because they have the Holy Ghost, they also have the ability to evaluate that person's problem and decide what the answer to their problem is, and then they pray for that.

And this is error because only the Spirit of counsel and wisdom has the understanding, the connection to God's mind, as to what the answer for this person's problem is. And those -- that Spirit of counsel and wisdom is not in the Holy Ghost. Counsel and wisdom is in Christ. So we have a big problem in the church. People come for prayer, and the person, right away, wants to counsel them. Now it is OK if you are qualified to counsel. It is not OK if you are not qualified to counsel.

So we do not know what to pray for, and as people get deeper and deeper into this tribulation, we know less and less what to pray for. And I have been teaching you here for months, my prayers have become very short and very simple. I rebuke powers and principalities. I rebuke everything that is not of God. I break curses, and I pray for God's perfect will. Now unless I get a specific word of knowledge, that is my prayer.

Some people get upset with me, but, believe me, you are much better off with that than with me praying some prayer that is totally out of God's will. You are much better off with that than me totally re- -- misevaluating your problem and setting myself up as knowing what you need. I do not know what you need, and some people get very distressed with me. They think I know and I do not want to tell them. I do not know what you need. I do not know what I need, and I have been teaching you here for a long time now. Present your problem to the Lord. Do not tell Him what you need. Say, "Lord, this is my situation. This is my problem. This is how I feel. This is how I hurt." But do not tell Him what you need because you do not know what you need. And the chances are, what you think you need is going to bring more destruction into your life, so do not be telling God what to do. Tell Him how you feel, and tell Him what the problem is, and let Him decide what you need. You cannot lose.

OK, I amplified that one more time, verse 26, "And likewise our present manner of prayer is ineffective when the judgment seed of Christ exposes the hidden sins of our heart, so the Spirit of Christ helps us to deal with our human weaknesses, which are exposed by the judgment seed of Christ, with moans and sighs which cannot be expressed in words."

Let me read it again. "And likewise our present manner of prayer is ineffective." What present manner of prayer? What is our present manner of prayer? Tongues. Now I am not telling you not to speak in tongues. Do not anyone misquote me, but sometimes that just does not cut it. I find it harder and harder for me to pray in tongues. All I can do is bless, ask that God fulfills these -- this person's potential to the fullest measu- -- I have the same prayer for everybody. People that do not understand me think I am faking out. I am not faking out on you. I have the same prayer for everybody, and God honors it. I rebuke your enemies that are in your mind, and I ask God if He will fulfill your potential to the greatest measure that He is willing to do so, because everybody does not have the same potential. But may you ascend into the fullness of your potential that God has granted to you.

So likewise our present manner of prayer is ineffective when the judgment seed of Christ exposes the hidden sins of our heart, so the Spirit of Christ helps us to deal with our human weaknesses with moans and sighs which cannot be expressed in words." And what is our present manner of prayer? Well, I just told you that, OK. Huh, what did I do here?

"But the Spirit itself maketh intercession." OK, the definite article, the, precedes the Greek word translated Spirit, indicating once again that Paul is speaking about the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. That goes back to verse 2. We talked about that on the last message. It is speaking -- he is speaking about the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus and not the Holy Spirit. So we see that this whole chapter is not about the Holy Spirit, but it is the Spirit of Christ.

"So we see that it is the Spirit of Christ and not the Holy Spirit which maketh intercession for us. " And, once again, what is the difference? The Holy Spirit can be likened unto the sperm of God, the seed of God, the male seed of God. The Spirit of Christ is the spirit that is operating at a -- out of a mature manifestation of the Son. It is the difference between a male sperm and a 19-year-old boy, a 19-year-old man that is -- who is already a warrior. That is a big difference. It is the difference between the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ. That is a big difference, brethren. God is not play games when He changes the name. The Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit, there is a big difference. One is a man, and the other one is not even a baby yet.

"So we see that it is the Spirit of Christ and not the Holy Spirit which maketh intercession for us. And, indeed, for there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," 1 Timothy 2:5.

Continuing with Romans 8:27, "And he that searches the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God."

"And he that searcheth the heart." That word and is Strong's 1163. It can be translated moreover, and we shall translate it that way. Searcheth means to examine into, to look into. Hearts, 2588. The heart is the center of anything. It can mean the physical heart. It can mean the center of one's being. Christ examines the hearts of men through the two witness company and the sons of God. "And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am He which searcheth the reins and the hearts:  and I will give unto every one of you according to your works," Revelation 2:23. It is Christ that examines the hearts of men, and in this hour, Christ is a glorified spirit, but He is appearing in His sons, His -- who are still imperfect in this hour.

So a human being in whom Christ is appearing can and should have the ability to look into the motives and the intents of your heart. And one of that problems that you are going to have as you move into this office is that you are going to be looking into the motives and the intents of the hearts of people who cannot see their own motives and intents. It is a big problem. It is a big problem because you know what they do? You know what the average person does? I am not condemning anybody. Do you know what 2-year-olds do? 2-year-olds have temper tantrums. I am not condemning anybody. Do you know what the average person does? They think that what you are perceiving is in your heart. They think it is in you. You come to them, and you try to tell them, "Look, there is something in your heart. It is not of God. I want you to deal with it. I want you -- to make you aware of it," and they think it is in you. That is the average person. That is what you are up against.

Now some people will say, "Well, I will pray about it," as Mary did. I have great respect for her for that. She honestly could not see it, but she is willing to pray about it. I have great respect for anyone who would do that. But the average person that you go to, they would say, "What in the world are you talking about? You know what is in my hear more than I know? You are telling me what I am thinking?" That is what they are going to tell you, so it is a whole training as to how to deal with these people. Basically, you do not tell them. You just pray, but you have to be led by the Spirit. Every case is an individual case. It is a hard ministry.

And also 1 Corinthians 2:10, "But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit:  for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God." So it is the Spirit of Jesus Christ that searches the hearts of men, and that spirit is in men. And He is in imperfect men in this hour. And I want to tell you men that love their sins do not appreciate you shining the light on their sins. They do not appreciate it. They do not like it, and they are going to turn around. They are going to accuse you of evil. They are going to accuse you of everything that is in their own heart. That is what they are going to do. It is not conscious. They do not even know. Well, some of them know what they are doing, but I - you know, it is just a way of life. It is just the way they live. The best defense is an offense, you know.

OK, we are still working on Romans 8:27, talking about hearts, "He that searches the hearts." The Hebrew word leb, translated heart, includes the definitions for the two Greek words translated heart and mind. Now check this out. In Greek it is two words, heart -- one translated heart and one translated mind. In the Hebrew, both of these definitions are found under one Hebrew word, translated heart. There is another Hebrew word that is translated mind and soul. It is one Hebrew word. Sometimes it is translated mind, and sometimes it is translated soul. And this is the equivalent of the Greek word translated soul. And then there is a Hebrew word translated spirit, and it is the equivalent of the Greek word translated spirit.

So what am I saying? Let me give you that again. In Greek, the word translated mind is the equivalent of the Hebrew word that is translated heart. In Greek, the word that is translated heart, it is the same Hebrew word that is translated mind. Yet, do not be confused because if you look in the Old Testament, there are words that are translated mind, but it is not the same word that is translated mind in the Greek. The Hebrew word that is translated mind is the equivalent of the Greek soul. Gets confusing, huh? In the Hebrew, you will see the word mind and the word soul. It is the same Greek word. It is the equivalent of the Greek soul. Just a point of information. Do not get confused.

This is the last verse. "And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit." Mind, 5427, speaking about the thoughts and purposes of the Spirit of Christ. So the one that searcheth the hearts and the motives of men, He knows what the thoughts and purposes of the Spirit are, not to condemn and destroy but to expose and destroy -- well, to condemn and destroy sin but not the person. So anyone through whom the Spirit of Christ is truly operating will be able to see into the hearts of men to recognize sin and to understand what the thoughts and purposes of the Father are with regard to that person so that they can use this gift to help them and not destroy them.

And that is another problem you will run into as a member of the two witness company. People that have not had this teaching will assume you are coming to destroy them. They will not understand and recognize that the exposure of sin is necessary for Christ to come forth in them. And even if they understand that, sometimes the sight of your imperfections will cause them to reject you and defend themselves. It is a very difficult ministry, but all things are possible with Christ.

"And He maketh intercession for the saints." This word translated maketh intercession is Strong's 1793, and it means to fall in with. I think we had that word before, and it was a different Greek word. We had that in another verse. Verse 26, maketh intercession, intercedes. I do not know whether it is a different word or not. I did not put the number down in verse 23. But in verse 27, the Greek word translated maketh intercession, 1793, means to fall in with or to fall into agreement with. The sons of God fall into agreement with the will of God for that person. Therefore, their prayers have great power.

And let me tell you something, brethren. The will of God for that person is always that they should live and not die, that they should overcome sin, that they should prosper. And then God says, "Well, for me to answer your prayers, they may have to have such and such and such a hard experience," but the will of God is always life and prosperity and victory and health and whatever glorifies God in that person.

But in another place, the Scripture says, "And the Lord put them in the valley of Hamongog" -- I think I pronounced that right, Hamongog -- "where He pleaded with them with blood and pestilence." I did not understand that Scripture for years. Brethren, God pleads with us to repent by shedding our blood and sending pestilence upon us. He answers your prayer to give that person life by sending pestilence upon them and by shedding their blood.

Alternate Translation, Romans 8:29, "Moreover, we know that the one who examines the hearts of men understands the thoughts and purposes of the Spirit of Christ because his prayers agree with God."

Amplified translation, verse 29, "Moreover, we know that the sons of God examine the hearts of men with the thoughts and purposes of the Spirit of Christ because their prayers agree with God."

We are going to know that you are the sons of God because you are going to be able to examine the hearts of men, but your purposes are going to be the same purposes as the Spirit of Christ, and your prayers for that person will agree with God. And I want to tell you, brethren, if you are wishing evil on anybody, your prayers are not in agreement with God. You have to learn to examine yourself. If there is vengeance in your heart, if there is retaliation in your heart, if you are getting a charge out of seeing someone punished, you are not -- do not be condemned, but you need to know that it is not Christ because Christ does not punish for punishment's sake. He punishes so that the person will mature and grow spiritually. He wishes well to all of us. You see, His thoughts are not our thoughts, and His ways are not our ways. He is marvelous in our sight.

OK, that is pretty much it. I would like to read you our Alternate Translations from verse 18 through 25. And you may recall that verses 19 through 21 were worked up in another message. I further amplified those verses. That means I made some more changes. Every change that I make fits in with the Greek, but I -- when I read all of these verses together, sometimes it is necessary to choose another translation, out of the 10 translations that I could choose from, to make the message flow smoothly. When I get 10 verses ahead of me, I sometimes realize that I really should have chosen a different translation or some such thing. So that is what I have done.

I have made some minor changes. If you -- what I am going to read now, if you take it and refer it back to the earlier part of this message, you will see some minor changes. And the reason I made it was that when I put all these verses together, I recognize that to have a smooth flowing message, I had to make some other choices. Everybody OK with that?

Recap, Romans 8:18-25, and I now have verses 18 through 22 in two paragraphs as follows. "Nevertheless, because the Lord has given us the hope that Christ will subject the one who subjected us, I believe that the calamities of this present age are nothing in comparison to what we shall experience when the Spirit of God is revealed in us and the creature shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God."

"Therefore, we know that since neither the Father nor the man desire that the creation be subjected to Satan, the whole creature is groaning until this present time with the labor pains that are preceding the birth of the sons which God is eagerly expecting."

Verse 23, "And, indeed, not only the whole creature, but we also have labored" -- excuse me. Verse 23, "And, indeed, not only the whole creature, but we also have labored so that Christ could be formed in us and are patiently waiting for our soul to be crucified to Christ Jesus, which is our adoption as sons."

Verse 24, "So then the engrafted word was rescuing us from the death of this existence, that we should be adopted as sons. But since the immature Christ cannot be seen, why would anyone look for the mature Christ Jesus or expect the good things which are associated with His life?"

Verse 25, "Because by understanding God's intentions and promises towards us, we can endure the hardships of our spiritual labor and eagerly expect Christ to appear in us, if we rely upon His strength."

Verse 26, "And likewise our present manner of prayer is ineffective when the judgment seed of Christ exposes the hidden sins of our heart. So the Spirit of Christ helps us to deal with our human weaknesses with moans and sighs which cannot be expressed in words."

"Moreover, we know that the sons of God examine the hearts of men with the thoughts and purposes of the Spirit of Christ because their prayers agree with God."

Brethren, the sign that it is a son, a true son who is exposing sin in you, is that his prayers for you agree with God, and that means his prayer will be that you will be delivered from the grip of this sin, that you will repent and confess your sins and be delivered and grow and increase in Christ. His prayer for you will be that God will forgive your sins and prosper you. That is how you recognize a son, and do not get confused with a harsh rebuke coming forth. Examine the whole picture because even a harsh rebuke always leaves room for repentance and restoration, which comes through repentance. Glory to God.

02/19/15 Transcribed by VerbalFusion

02/20/15 1^st Edit CAS/BP