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Praise the Lord. The Lord's really meeting here at these meetings. Can you feel his presence or is it just me? It's just alive. What we're talking about xxxxx is that I asked you to hold on to it until we could put it on the tape. Oh, the title pastor. Well, you know everyone that's in the ministry is imperfect, all of us are imperfect, all of us are imperfect, and no matter, God doesn't even want us to look at where we are in relationship to one another, he just wants us to do the job and minister to the people that he sends us to, okay. And some of us have revelations that others don't have, and then that other person can have a revelation that we don't have.
God has given me a tough ministry, he's given me some words that offend a lot of people. I hope you all....sometimes the truth is offensive, the truth is painful, it hurts you, and one of the truths he's brought forth here is that pastor is an illegal title except for the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul appointed Bishops, and he appointed overseers and when you're talking about the Book of Ephesians where it describes the five-fold ministry, it is talking about the sons of God. It is talking about the men in whom Christ is going to appear, and when Christ appears in you, you have all five of those offices, you're a pastor, you're an evangelist, you're a prophet, you're a teacher, you are everything in Christ, okay.
Jesus said, Let no man call you father, call no man father. He said, call no man teacher, and although he didn't say call no man pastor, I believe it's applied because Paul never called anybody pastor. Check it out, Paul never called anybody pastor.
Now I remember ten years ago, we were finding out that reverend is an ungodly title. Remember that? And the church that we went to at the time, he humbled himself, and he took reverend off which was the same man that you happened to mention earlier. He was calling himself reverend at that time, and he took the title reverend off of his name, but he didn't have a revelation that pastor is an illegal title, and very few people today have that revelation.
There are many ministers calling themselves by the title pastor, and they don't know that there's anything wrong with it, and we don't make a big issue out of it because it's not sin until God convicts us of it, and I wouldn't even call it sin. It's just we're trying to get....we're on a journey, and we're trying to get into perfection, and every thought in our mind that's not true is opposing our approaching unto perfection. So we want the truth, and we want all the lies cast out, okay.
So we have a pastor. His name is the Lord Jesus Christ, and he's amongst us right now, and he's manifesting through this body, this local group that we have right here.
Now, for whatever his reasons, I'm teaching, hopefully, by his spirit. I believe it's by his spirit, but if you have something to contribute, if the spirit of God moves upon you, it could be a question, I find the spirit of God moves mightily through questions in the believers, okay. The pastor is manifesting through you when you ask a question that comes out of Christ. If you give a testimony that he is moved upon you to give, the pastor is manifesting through you. He is in the midst of us. Remember he showed himself to the disciples and it said, Jesus appeared in the midst of them. And he's appearing in the midst of us today, and he's showing us his wounds and his wounds are his resurrected life that's manifesting.
Through every manifestation of his spirit and every word that's coming forth from his life, he is the pastor, Hallelujah.
Any questions on that? Yes?
COMMENT: In the same Scripture did it also say, call no man Rabbi?
PASTOR VITALE: It says call no man Rabbi, which means teacher, call no man teacher.
Jesus is the only teacher, okay. and it gets very hairy because if there's a ministry, if you are convinced that Jesus is teaching through that ministry, if you want to take a chance and call the person a teacher, you can. It gets very hairy, you see. I don't take any title, but I have to confess to you, that sometimes people push me up against the wall, because they want to know who I am, what are you? You're not a pastor, why don't you call yourself a pastor? What are you? And if they push me up against the wall, I say I'm a teacher, and, you know, that's not exactly accurate. If I can get a grip on the situation I prefer to say minister, because Jesus says....I'm not calling myself great now, don't lay hold of my words, but the greatest amongst you shall be ministers, okay.
Now I'm not saying that I'm great, but the way Jesus meant this is that right now God has imparted knowledge to me that he wants you to have. So in this little group here, I'm the one that he's brought in that has the knowledge. It doesn't mean that I'm great, and you're not great. God doesn't even think like that. God's mind doesn't go like that, okay. So the only Scriptural title that I can think of is minister, and I try to use it and I get carnal-minded people pressing on me, what are you, what are you, what are you? And sometimes I say teacher. and I really shouldn't do it. Yes?
COMMENT: Oh, you answered my question. I was just going to say, what do you think of minister, so you just clarified it. That's what I had thought right before you said it.
PASTOR VITALE: Well minister is Scriptural, minister is Scriptural and it's the only Scriptural title that I could find because I am not yet in full stature, okay, and as we mature in Christ, we will see manifestations of apostleship in us, manifestations of teacher in us, manifestations of pastor. We counsel, we help you, but nobody's in full stature yet, and Jesus is all of these things, and when Christ crucifies himself to us, let's talk about that this morning, and we become one with Christ, then we can take all these titles.
You know, a lot of people are very distressed about this doctrine called the manifestations of the sons of God, because they think that it's natural man claiming that he's a God, and they get very upset about it, and if someone's preaching that, you have a right to be....well we shouldn't be upset about anything. We have a right to reject the doctrine. There is no such doctrine in the Bible that fallen man shall be made a God.
Fallen man is being destroyed, he's being swallowed up by Christ, but when the Lord comes to destroy your fallen, sin-filled soul he's there to keep you alive, and when he becomes your life, you shall be as God.
Let's put this on the board. Paul said he was crucified to the world, he said he was crucified with Christ. We have two souls, again we're drawing our spiritual makeup as a circle. This is a man, and we have an Adamic soul that we were born with, and when you receive Christ, when you receive the Holy Spirit, Lord willing, well let's go back.... in the midst of your Adamic soul you have a spirit. It's the human spirit, and she is the piece of the original when the son of God was joined to the dust of the earth at the beginning of time to make the clay out of which we're formed. We now have a vessel made out of the dust of the earth with the wickedness that was in it and the son of God. We are in the likeness of God, in that we are spirit.
There is within us a human spirit, and when the Holy Spirit enters in, he goes right into the spirit and joins with it in a spiritual sexual joining. She is female, the Holy Spirit is male, and they produce a child. His name is Christ, and he is the Manchild that shall save us in childbearing when this spiritual child appears in our soul, okay. He shall grow up, he appears as a mustard seed, and when he grows up to full stature he's going to penetrate beyond our Adamic soul and give us a new layer out here.
Christ is now on the inside. He is going to the outside, and he's going to render everything within him dead. He's going to pierce through all of this, and I'm doing this very simplistically. There are more layers, he's going to pierce though. Now, what is the crucifixion? It is a piercing through. Everything in the natural is the opposite of what we see in the spiritual. In the natural when a man is crucified, they take a nail that's out here, and they stick it in his hands and in his feet. But spiritual crucifixion is from the inside out.
Jesus Christ has for one of his titles, the male, and I do have Scriptures on that. If you've never heard of that before, he is the male that the woman forced through Sisera's head, typifying his carnal mind, killing the oppressor of Israel, and the oppressor of Israel is your carnal mind. He's killing you and he's killing me. He is crucifying this Adamic soul or circumcising himself from the inside out.
So when Paul said, I am crucified with Christ, he meant that the same thing happened to him that happened to Jesus Christ of Nazareth, and when he said I am crucified to the world, he meant that, of these two men, Christ and Adam, they were now joined. He is now crucified to the world and of the twain. Of what twain? Of Christ and of Adam. The power of God made one new man, the glorified creation of God, which has authority over this soul. And when this happens to you, you shall be fully born again. because I'm sorry to shake your boat ladies, but we are not born again. We are in the process of being born again.
The first step has taken place. We've received the Holy Spirit, maybe the second step, maybe we've conceived Christ, okay, but he has to grow up and slay the enmity in our flesh. He has to circumcise himself. I'm sorry, again I apologize to you, but God is racy. Christ likens himself to a penis. It's in the Old Testament, he likens himself to a penis. He's the only male spirit in the earth.
Don't you believe Satan's a male because it's a lie. She's a woman, she's a Jezebelic raging woman, and she's out of control. Christ is the only male, and he needs to be circumcised because he's covered over with this Adamic soul which is likened to his foreskin. He's cutting away the Adamic soul, and he's going to appear, and the symbol, the war-like symbol of military strength to Old Covenant Israel, was the penis. And we have found Scriptures in the Old Testament where Jesus describes himself as the jagged rock. He is the jagged rock that is penetrating our soul, and our natural type is sexual intercourse, where a man and woman come together and pull apart, but when Christ comes together with you, brethren, he's not pulling apart. He's going to abide within the midst of you for the life of the ages.
And right now, we are experiencing a spiritual experience that can be likened to sexual intercourse in that the Lord joins with us and he pulls back, he joins with us and he pulls back. We see it on two levels. We see it in the church world. Everybody's waiting for revival. Ask anybody with any maturity in the church at all, God comes in waves, and when the latest wave pulls back everybody's gasping for water. We're all waiting for this revival. Where is God? The church is dead! Well, the wave is pulled out. We're waiting for him to pour out upon us again, and it could be years in the natural, but we also have a similar personal experience where he pours himself out upon us in such great power, and then you're just flying for three days, and you wake up the next morning and you say where did he go? The feeling is gone.
And the Song of Solomon tells us about it. It says the woman goes flying down the street saying, have you seen my beloved, where's my beloved? Where is he? He's not manifesting in me, he was there last night. That was a great meeting, or if you're a little more mature, and you're at the place where you're feeding yourself, there was a great outpouring when I prayed and read the word the other night, but he's gone today because he's joining with us and pulling back. But the day is coming that he's going to join with us, and he's going to stay in the midst of us, and he's never going to leave us, and at that point, you and me too, we shall be fully born again. We have to born of water, and we have to be born of blood. This whole world is 96% water, our bodies are 96% water. We have a nurse here, that's true is it not?
We're all water, this whole system is water. You cannot be born again if you don't have a body and a soul to start with, so you must get a body, and you must have an Adamic soul. Why? Because we are the incubator for the Christ, which is the second birth. He is the second birth. Again, I keep apologizing, I have to. I don't mean to be unkind, but the truth is going to set you free.
Whoever is here and wherever this tape is going to, you can't tell me that you messed up, and you lost your cool the other night, and you're cursed, and that you're born again, because you're not. You may be on the road, you're in the process of overcoming what cursed in you last night. That thing that rose up and cursed in you last night needs to be overcome and slain, and when he is dead, dead, dead, you shall have been born again. Right now you're in the process. Hallelujah.
So this is what's happening to us, and before this can happen to us, God wants us to have a perception of the two minds in us. This will never happen to us, this is the way God set it up, this isn't my doctrine, this is his doctrine. We cannot be fully born again until we enter into this warfare. I read in a newsletter not too long ago a preacher was preaching that these two powers and principalities are waging this intense spiritual warfare, and we're just standing here, and it's not true.
We are laborers with Christ, we are crucified with Christ, and we are active participants of his life, as he permits us to enter into it. So we have to be engaged in this circumcision, you have to be engaged in this crucifixion, and it's a crucifixion of the mind. So how can you enter the warfare if you can't tell who's on which side? We must be able to discern the mind of, the thoughts of Christ, and the thoughts of our carnal mind. And the thoughts of our carnal mind are not necessarily "go kill somebody." They're not necessarily what we would call evil thoughts, but they are thoughts that are in place of God. Anti-Christ means instead of God.
And if we have a choice of going to the left or to the right, when we say to ourselves, well what's the big difference, if God wanted me to go to the left, and I missed him and I went to the right, what's the big difference? You don't know, it's not....you're not going to hell because of this, that's not the point. The point is he wants to raise you from the dead, and you can't be raised from the dead while you're thinking with the carnal mind. So there's no condemnation in this. We're in training to discern between the carnal mind and Christ, and we must be able to tell which is his voice.
I had an experience just the other day. Somebody called me up with an offer, I really don't want to go into any of the details, but I thought it might have been God, I didn't think so, but it might have been God. See, when it's cut and dry it's easy. When it's not obvious, that's when it's hard, and I live my whole life like this. I just want to give you an example of how to try these spirits, you know, we all heard....all spirits are not of God, brethren, so try the spirit. We recognize rage and we recognize anger. Well, that's good, but you know that's not really where it's at. We have to try the spirit when it's hard to tell the difference.
So this person called and made me an offer and I said, well Lord, it sounds like it might be you, you know, and if it's you I don't want to miss it. So I continued to pray, and I said it doesn't sound like you, and I agreed to do something, and I said, if it's not you, just take it away, and the next day came and the person called back. I was supposed to do it Tuesday, and I said, well Tuesday is no good, we could do it Wednesday. Now I had already agreed to do it, and I hung up the phone and I said, I've got someone coming here Wednesday morning, I've got someone else coming here Wednesday night, it's going to be.... and I'm going to be up til eleven o'clock Wednesday night and I'm going to stick this in the middle. Confusion is not of God.
I said, Lord I've made a judgment that this is not of you, but if you wanted me to do this, you wouldn't be doing this to me, okay, but I'll still go through with it if you permit it, but I'm asking you if it's not of you wipe it out. They never called me back. They were supposed to call me back Wednesday morning. I never heard from them Wednesday morning, Thursday morning, they disappeared out of my life. Yes?
COMMENT: Do you feel confused? Was that one of the signs of God confirming that it was not of him? Did you feel a sense of confusion or uneasiness?
PASTOR VITALE: Well, I want to tell you that confusion tried to get on me, but this is not the first time God has tried me like this, and in the past I have experienced a lot of confusion, and I, in my spiritual growth because I'm not fully born again either, I now am at a place where I'm saying, I'm not going to let this happen to me. Now if you're not there yet, you're not to be condemned. This is a warfare, it's experience, and it's learning that we go through everyday, and it tried to come on me, but I refused to allow it. And I stood on the ground that I am in Christ, and that he is my head, and that he has brought me to where I am, and no matter what the circumstances look like, he's going to save me and if he doesn't, let me die.
Now I'm telling you that's the only way you're going to make it. Whether it's a physical problem or an emotional problem or a spiritual problem or a financial problem, it's the only way you're going to survive because if you don't stand on Christ, and if you don't believe that he's going to deliver you from every destruction, if you don't believe it, you're going to try and save yourself. And when you try and save yourself, you're going to not do what God wants you to do.
And this is a very hard word, but it's the hour of entering in, and if the word has come to your ears, he's asking you. You know, if you don't have the courage, don't ever be condemned by....a lot of people don't understand me, don't ever be condemned by anything that I say. If you hear something that I say, and you're honest enough with yourself to say, I haven't got the guts for that, all that you do is say, Lord I haven't got the guts for it, if you want me to do this, you're going to have to give me the guts, okay.
Don't let a spirit of condemnation come on you that's going to separate you from God, because if you're hearing this word, he's calling you in this hour to be amongst the first that enter in, and anything that's going to separate you from God....I got a lot of people telling me this, I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy, I'm.... how could God use me? But the reality is that your carnal mind is separating you from God. God wants you, and you have made a judgment that you're not good enough, and that's pride. God says you're good enough, God says you're worthy, but your carnal mind says, oh no, he couldn't take me, so I'm leaving, and God's sitting there saying, come back, come back. And you say, Oh no Lord, I'm not good enough, and it's pride. That's what it is, it's pride.
How is it pride? You have a thought in your mind that's different than God's thought. God says you're worthy. Why are you worthy? Because the first fruits sanctify the whole lump, and Jesus Christ did it. What did he do? He overcame his Adamic soul, he pierced through, he crucified it, he circumcised it, and he rose from the dead and that life, that resurrected life is in you. You're worthy, you're sanctified, I don't care what you look like, I don't care.
And when we went through the Book of Revelation we found some Scriptures that gave qualifications or prerequisites, as they call it in school sometimes, things that you have to fulfill before you become qualified to rise from the dead, and one of the things, one of the qualities that has to be found in you for you to rise from the dead is an understanding that every human being on the face of the earth is worthy. Why?
Because we are made out of the very life of Christ. The Scripture says, can you just hold it one second, okay, the Scripture says that he died so that we could live, or he became poor so that we could become rich. He permitted himself to be joined to the dust of the earth in which Satan dwells so that the clay could be formed, so that we could come into existence, and everybody, no matter how reprobate, has something of Christ in him, and they are worthy. The whole creation is worthy.
Only God can make a judgment that one vessel has been so wicked that God's going to wipe him out, and, in that event, when that happens, his body goes back to the dust of the ground, and his soul goes back to the lump. The spirit goes back to God, and the Lord uses that lump to reform vessels of honor. But we cannot look at any man and say," you're not worthy to be saved." Because from where we're standing, everyone in whom the breath of life is, is worthy to be saved. Do you have a question?
COMMENT: I think you might have answered it. Is there something in the Scriptures that says, you know, when John the Baptist said to Jesus, that he's not even worthy to tie his own shoes, or that we're not really, what does it mean when the Scripture says that we're not worthy? Is there something in the Scripture saying that we're not saved by works, and what we do, because we're not worthy, but by the grace of God....
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, John the Baptist said, I'm not worthy to untie his shoe latches, but John the Baptist didn't have Christ.
Jesus said, the least in the kingdom of God is greater than the greatest prophet. John was a natural man. The provision for this to happen to him, the provision for Christ to be born in him, was not available to him. He was under the Old Covenant. And why was it not available to him? Because he died before Jesus rose from the dead. The provision that makes you worthy is that the glorified Christ is in you.
COMMENT: That part.... but the rest is it like the carnal man....
PASTOR VITALE: It's like, how's he going to save your lungs but not your heart? That's what you're saying.
You see, you're all one. You're not worthy in your own righteousness, you're not worthy in your righteousness, but you're worthy in his righteousness. You are, we are the second generation of Christ. The first generation was Jesus Christ of Nazareth and in Isaiah 53, the Lord promised him to prolong his days through his seed. He promised him children, and we are his children. How are we his children? He was raised from the dead, he was glorified, he ascended, he's in pure spirit form now, and he's pouring himself out upon all flesh, and now he's spirit. Right? Let me back up a little.
Okay, this is real touchy, brethren. A lot of people have a problem with this, so we're going to try and explain it today. This is really important. When Jesus Christ of Nazareth walked on the earth 2,000 years ago, the Book of Hebrews says that in the days of his flesh, he was a man like you and me. Okay, he was a man like you and me in that he had an Adamic soul that he got from his mother, Mary. He inherited an Adamic soul from the house of Judah. Amen?
Okay, but he had something that all of the other men, that all of Israel didn't have, and that was a human spirit that had given birth to Christ, because the Holy Spirit hovered over Mary. He not only impregnated her with a natural flesh baby, but that natural flesh baby had a human spirit that was fertilized by the Father, and the seed of Christ was already in him. Does anybody not understand this?
Let me say it again. We all are natural Adamic men. We are born with human spirits, we, the human race, we are the female seed of the creation of God. Our natural type is human sexuality. We are the woman, the human spirit is our ovum. It's the egg that's going to be joined with the sperm of God which is the male spirit of God, the Holy Spirit, and they're going to produce a child which is Christ, and that is the child that will save us in childbearing.
So Jesus Christ of Nazareth was a man, he was a baby that was born with a human spirit that had been fertilized by the Father. Christ was in him in seed form from birth, different than any other human being that ever lived. And because he grew up and he overcame his Adamic soul, we're told in the Book of Romans, he brought it into submission to the spirit of holiness and purified that Adamic soul. He refused to let it sin by the strength of the Christ in him. When he died, the Father raised him from the dead because he purified his Adamic soul. He refused to let it sin.
As we are told in the temptation, the demons came to him. He didn't do what they said. Satan came to him, he didn't do what he said. He only did and said what his Father in heaven told him. Okay, but he was a natural man, he had a body and a soul when he was crucified, and when he was raised from the dead and ascended he went back into the heavenly realms. He became one with the Father, he became spirit again. What was the difference between Jesus and the Father when he was on the earth? Jesus said, The father and I we are one, nevertheless, the father is greater than I. What kind of a riddle is that? The difference is that Jesus Christ of Nazareth was God in a soul form. He was living down here in the earth, and he had a soul, and the soul realm is weaker then pure spirit.
The soul is weaker than the spirit, the soul is weaker than spirit just as jungle animal life is weaker than soul. We are superior to the animals, we are superior to king Kong. We just take a gun or a grenade and blow them up. Spirit is superior to soul. When God is in the form of a man, an unglorified man, Jesus....this was before his glorification, he was in a weakened condition, put there by himself waiting for the joining. Does anybody not understand me?
Okay, even soul is weaker than spirit. Jesus Christ rose from the dead and ascended into the heavenlies and went back into spirit form.
COMMENT: Didn't he go to heaven with his body?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, but it was glorified. This was after the crucifixion.
Everything was joined and became one, it became one, it was spiritualized. His soul and his body was swallowed up by the realm of the spirit. You see, before the crucifixion, this was before he was circumcised, here I'll draw it for you again. This was before he was circumcised, and he was in here, and his Adamic soul was on top of him, and the Adamic soul was laying on Christ. That's why it was a miracle that he took authority over this Adamic soul and he pierced out through it, and put the Adamic soul inside, and he went outside and, by doing that, he killed his Adamic soul, and it became utterly submissive to him, and it became spirit. The spirit swallowed up the realm of the soul.
We could talk about it later, okay. Do you have another question? Yeah okay, is there anybody else that doesn't understand this? Okay.
So Jesus before the crucifixion, he was vulnerable. okay. He was in a soul body, but after the ascension, he became....the whole creation became spirit. So he became spirit again and now he's in the earth in the form of the Holy Spirit, and he wants to do in you what he did in the man, Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Now he's gotten into your heart, because of the spirit of adoption and he's fertilized your human spirit, and now he wants to take authority over your soul, and do the whole thing. This is the resurrection of the dead.
You see, if anyone of us were to get hit by a car now we would die even if Christ is conceived in us, but when he comes to this point where he swallows up our whole being, if we get hit by a car we'll just get up and walk away. That's what the resurrection of the dead is. Yes?
COMMENT: When Mary Magdalene wanted to touch Jesus after his resurrection, and he says, no, please do not touch me, I haven't ascended up to my Father, there was something about bringing his blood to the mercy seat. Is that just symbolic, or did he really have to go to another realm?
PASTOR VITALE: I don't really have any revelation on that, but I don't believe it was symbolic, and I believe when he said he hasn't ascended yet, that it doesn't mean that he ascended up into Mars.
I mean....I believe it means that he had not fully been converted into pure spirit form. Now why he told her not to touch him, I don't know. Maybe he was hot, I don't know. Maybe she would have been electrocuted, because there are several ministries in the country today that are acknowledging that this conversion....see whether they argue, whether they think it's a rapture or whether they think it's....it doesn't matter what the details are, there are a lot of ministers in the country today that believe that the power that's going to be exerted to raise us from the dead it's going to be likened to atomic fusion.
Now when the creation came into existence, it was....it happened by atomic fission, the division of the atom. God is an atom, and he split himself, he split the son off from himself. It's likened to the dividing of the atom which is atomic fission, a lot of heat and a lot of power, but there's something that creates much more power than the splitting of the atom, and it's called atomic fusion, and it's the joining of atoms.
And I'm suggesting to you that the Son of God was divided into many members by the power likened unto atomic fission, but now he's joining us back together again. All things are being reconciled into one, in Christ, and that's going to be done by atomic fusion. It's going to be great heat, and great power, so when Jesus said, I have not yet ascended, and I have no revelation on this, but my feeling would be that he was electrified, that she could have been killed if she touched him. Yeah?
COMMENT: Doesn't it say in the Scriptures, is it true, didn't he ask Thomas to touch him or something?
PASTOR VITALE: Yeah, but that was later on. It was later on.
COMMENT: I thought maybe Christ asked Thomas to touch him because Thomas had a spirit of unbelief, but Mary Magdalene believed?
PASTOR VITALE: Yeah, well God hasn't spoken to me on any of this, but I doubt it.
You see, because God's not a man, okay, and he's given himself for the whole world, and he's no respecter of persons. So the chances are she would have been harmed if she touched him, that's my opinion. If God tells me anything else, I'll tell you. So we get....did you have a question?
COMMENT: When he came back to the apostles, and he was cooking the fish on the shore, and they didn't realize it was him at first, but then they realized that it was the Lord, well he had a body then didn't he, or was that a different body.
PASTOR VITALE: He had a glorified body, because they didn't know who he was.
The Scripture clearly states that they perceived by discernment that it was the Lord, but they didn't recognize his appearance, and when they saw him on the road to Emmaus they didn't even know who they were talking to, so he took another form. See, he was no longer the man, Jesus Christ of Nazareth. He was the resurrected Son of God, and as we become resurrected we're being joined to him. There's nothing but him, he's everything. Yes?
COMMENT: comments incomprehensible.
PASTOR VITALE: Well I don't know what they mean. You know, to some people it means the....that he's going to appear in Israel. I don't know what they mean, but what I mean by it, is that yes he's appearing in us and he's appearing in you and he's appearing in me, but only in little spurts, but he's going to pierce us. You know, we're told in the Book of Revelation, and those who pierce him shall see him. You know that Scripture in Revelation 1, and all the carnal minds, including mine, I even have it on a tape, number 35, all the carnal minds in the world says, Yeah those that crucified him, they're going to see him. No, those who pierce through him, those who enter into his soul, they're going to see him. Why? Because when we see him, we're going to be like him, and we're two separate souls now.
Let me draw this for you again. You see, this is the Adamic man that we were born as, and Christ is now coming forth in us. He's a new soul, and these two souls....you see Christ is getting bigger, and bigger, and bigger, and now he's getting outside of the Adamic soul, and when he gets outside of the Adamic soul, the enmity in our flesh has been slain, and we're no longer called Adam, but we're called Christ, and we shall pierce him. We shall have pierced into his soul life, and we are no longer abiding in Adam, but we're abiding in Christ. And when you've pierced him, you're going to see him, and when you see him, you're going to be like him. So it's not his enemies that are going to see him. It's his friends that are going to see him. Hallelujah.
So right now we are the second generation of Christ. The first generation was Jesus Christ of Nazareth, and he said, but if a corn of wheat falls into the ground, it shall bring forth a great harvest. Jesus Christ could have lived forever in his resurrected condition. He didn't have to....you know, he died twice.
He died, he was the spiritual son of God, and he let himself be joined to the clay so that we could be formed, and then after his father raised him from the dead, he agreed....well I'm sorry, he didn't die again, but he had himself slaughtered a second time. Forgive me, he was slaughtered the first time.
The Scripture says he was the lamb slain from the foundation of the earth, and if you look up the word "slain," it means slaughtered, and dressed for market. Like you cut up a cow into steaks and all kinds of meat, that's what the Scripture says happened to him. And after he was resurrected from the dead, he was slaughtered again in that, he permitted his glorified life to sprinkle out upon all of humanity. And he said, there's a piece in you, and there's a piece in you, and there's piece in you, and there's a piece in me.
So he's been slaughtered again, but it's his intention to glorify all of our bodies and souls, and bring himself together in one. So we are the second generation of Christ. The first generation of Christ is in our minds. He's our new mind, and we are his children, the Sons of God, and those of us that follow after his spirit and not the carnal mind, we are the sons of God, because now we have two souls. And natural men only have one soul, they have no choice.
So I don't even know how we got on all this. Did I answer everybody's question or did I get off the track. Okay, are there any questions about this, that we're being crucified to the world and that the world is our Adamic soul, that we're being crucified with Christ. What does that mean that we're crucified with Christ? God only created one living soul, and he likens it to a plant with many leaves that unfold from it, and we are the leaves of that one living soul.
So when Christ crucified his Adamic soul, he was only one leaf of the whole Adamic soul. So when we say we're crucified with him, it means that, that soul which is in us, which is really one with Christ....let me put this on the board for you.
We are many members of a living soul. Now it's hard to understand because we don't look like we're joined, but we're joined, okay, and everyone of us has a human soul that's going to have to be penetrated by Christ. Now over here, we'll draw it in a different color. Over here, we have Jesus Christ of Nazareth, and he's all Christ because he's crucified his soul, and he's the only one right now, but he's getting inside of all of us, and when this glorified spirit gets in this man and penetrates his soul and crucifies it, this vessel moves over here. Can you see that?
When this man gets his soul crucified, the Scripture says we're found in Christ. He moves over. This one gets his soul crucified, he's not in Adam anymore, he's dwelling in Christ. Yes?
COMMENT: When Paul died, did he get into this position?
PASTOR VITALE: I really don't know to be honest with you.
I know that....I think there's a good chance that he didn't because he said that he was born out of season, and it wasn't time for the whole body to be joined yet, but I believe, I believe that he joined with Christ, but not as the individual personality.
COMMENT: What does it mean when it says in the, I think it's Thessalonians, where those that went on before and those that are now, will any of them have a chance, or are they're finished because they were out of season?
PASTOR VITALE: I believe the personality will not rise again. The personality will not rise again, okay.
Once the body leaves the earth, he took his soul with him. You see, his soul was crucified to his spirit and he said, to die is gain. We know spirit is superior to soul, okay, and we are a soul man. You have a ten-year old, a one year old, a five year old, and a twenty year old, okay, and all of those bodies, and all of those ages, and all of those emotions and thoughts that you experience in those ages have been swallowed up by the mature woman that you are. Okay, you are the sum total of all your experiences and all of those bodies that you lived in, and they exist only as a memory which is a part of you. Christ is a superior....
Christ is a superior spiritual being who is growing up and having many childhood experiences in each of us. See, he's graded in the soul realm. You only had one age at a time, one, two, three, four, five. He's experiencing this existence through the many members of the living soul all at once, and when he stands in full spiritual maturity, every one of us in this stage is going to be one of his younger years, as typified by Moses and Elijah on the mount of transfiguration, except for those that are here at the time that he stands up in full stature in us.
That's like the woman that you are now. This is your body, you're a mature woman. This is your body, and your ten-year old body doesn't exist anymore. So all of the people that he's lived through, and he's had experiences through....after their body dies, their spiritual being is a part of the mature Christ as a memory likened to your ten-year old child. We're his childhood.
COMMENT: I guess I'm not comprehending it. It almost makes me feel sick inside to think that because they lived in a wrong time, and they lived to the best of their ability, because they're not living at this particular time when Jesus is formed in each of us, that they missed out.
PASTOR VITALE: Yeah, but no that's not correct.
Let me try again, okay that's not correct. You see, the catch is that we are Christ. You are Christ. You're not the lady that's born. I don't want to put your name on the tape. You're not who you think you are. You're not this soul woman that's bore six children and lived in West Babylon. You are Christ, you are Christ in his childhood.
It's not that you're born out of season, and you are not this lifetime, you are spirit and you are Christ, and it's him in you that's growing up, and you are going to be found in him just like your ten-year old is found in you. You don't understand?
And one of the problems that we run into....this is very tough because the carnal mind resists this revelation, because what it's saying to you is that your individuality is going to be swallowed up by something greater. John the Baptist said, I must decrease so that he should increase, but the carnal mind wants to say to itself that I'm going to remain independent. It's like your ten-year old child saying I refuse to grow up. And but we must fade away so that he can mature through us.
So if someone who's living today, if their body dies, and their spiritual being goes on with Christ to a greater age, but that ten-year old is no more, where is your ten-year old?
COMMENT: Where is that greater age that goes on with Christ you say?
PASTOR VITALE: It's coming here. We are waiting for him to stand up in full stature.
COMMENT: So those from the past will be with him then?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, but not as their.... the type the Bible gives us is the mount of transfiguration where Moses and Elijah were found in Christ, but they weren't separate from Christ. See, they weren't separate from him.
COMMENT: I couldn't see that God would allow them to be born, and they pass and there's all, just a memory of them, that's it period. That's the part that's making me sick inside.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes. No, the memory of Christ is great. We saw that Moses and Elijah was a part of Jesus Christ of Nazareth in his maturity.
Yes, so this is a difficult word, it's a difficult word, and it's attacking.... I'm sorry, I don't mean to hurt your feelings. It's attacking our pride something awful because it's telling us that we're not all as important as we'd like to think we are.
I read a testimony by Bill Britton once and he's dead now, I have a lot of respect for the man, and his testimony was that he was really hoping the sons of God were going to manifest in his lifetime, and he was getting older and older, and he said to the Lord one day, Lord you know what's going to happen here, he says, I read in the Scriptures that you said, no great ones are going to enter into this, and you've given me an international ministry, I don't want to miss out on this, where does this leave me? And the Lord said to Bill Britton, "If you knew how unimportant you were, you wouldn't be worried about it," and he wrote that down, and he preached that testimony. We're just not that important.
COMMENT: So then we're not truly worthy?
PASTOR VITALE: No, no, we're not important in the way we would like to be important you see. We would like to be exalted in ourselves, but we shall be exalted in him.
We shall be very important when he appears in us, okay in us, and we aren't....maybe I shouldn't have put it that way, I didn't mean to put anyone on a false track. We are as important as your ten-year old child was important. Where would you be today if you were never nine, ten, or eight years old? Where would you be today? So we have a place in the creation, and we are very important.
Jesus says, you are more important than the sparrows, and he says that you're very important to his purposes. We are very important to his purposes, and to his life, and to his maturing into full stature, but we as individuals are not important. Did I make that clear?
We cannot build our own kingdoms. W cannot say that we are important because we preach the message, or we are important because we built a city. W can't say it because that's pride. It's not God. The only thing that matters is Christ in the building of his kingdom, and we'll lose everything that we have if we do that. You know, you're mature believers here. I know that you know that if you want to lose what you've got with God, it's the first.... just lift yourself up in pride, build your own kingdom, and say that you did it.
The Scripture clearly states they exalted Herod as king, and he received their worship, and he immediately died and he was eaten of worms. And in case you don't know what that means, it means that he died spiritually and that the soul of Christ in him, of that which was of Christ in him, was devoured by the earth worms that dwell in the Adamic soul. God stripped him of his spiritual life, and then he died. I believe he died naturally also.
We can exalt the individual, we are one. You see there's no division in Christ. There's division in the Adamic man, and because we were raised this way and because this was the way, the condition of the living soul for thousands of years now, everybody is out there doing their own thing and trying to make their own names for themselves. And it's just human nature, it's human nature, but it's got to go because our human nature has to go, and we have to get the Christ nature.
So to think that they did the best they could, and they were just forgotten, that's not how God is seeing it. Okay, did I help you at all? It's very hard. It's very hard. Praise the Lord. You didn't what?
COMMENT: I'm so concerned about Paul being done out of it.
COMMENT: The Christ in Paul is with Christ, but the Paul that was Paul is just a memory.
PASTOR VITALE: Right, the spiritual life that was in Christ is right there with Elijah and Moses, and he's going to appear with him when Christ....we're waiting for him to appear again, and when he appears in full stature, every vessel in whom Christ appeared in any measure is going to be found in him, in that day in his glory, but not necessarily as an individual. Jesus said, behold look at Elijah, look at John the Baptist, he says, if you can receive it, this is Elijah, this is Elijah. So the man, the Old Testament prophet Elijah, his body and his personality did not appear again, but the spiritual life that he was appeared again in a new....a different man with a different soul with a different personality.
COMMENT: Is this what you were making reference to once that God would take that clay when he's finished and he'll remold it into another?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, and he'll remold it into a new house for the spiritual life.
We are spirit, we are spirit, we are spirit. We are not this body, we are not this personality. As much as we love our kids and our mothers and our fathers, and whoever we've joined ties with, this is just a temporal, passing away life, and I know that it's hard, but if you open your heart to the Lord, he'll help you with it. I know you love your kids, I know you love your mother and your aunts and someone....I know, but it's passing away, and the only thing that's going to abide is what's inside of us that we can't see which is Christ. Okay, when he comes to the outside like on the mount of transfiguration, what's inside of us is going to get outside of us, and you're not going to see us anymore.
What happened on the mount of transfiguration? You didn't even....no one was even talking about Jesus anymore. They were looking at Elijah and Moses, and they got so scared they fell asleep. Yes?
COMMENT: It does say, too, in the Scriptures that heaven and earth shall pass away, and everything will pass away, but the word of God will always be forever.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes it's all passing away, and, you know, a lot of people get scared when they hear this.
I've had a lot of people come to me, and they told me that they're frightened because they feel like they're being destroyed, they feel like they're losing their life. I've had a lot of people tell me this, they're very frightened of this message, and sometimes they're very frightened when they're around me which doesn't make me feel wonderful, but there's nothing I could....it's not me, it's Christ in me.
I had an old friend of mine that was at that meeting that I had on a Tuesday night. These ladies weren't here, and she hadn't been to a meeting for a long time but I've known her for years, and she's a strong Christian, and she can tell the difference between Christ and Adam in her mind, and she called me up on the phone, and she said, Sheila, was I scared, I was so scared my teeth were shaking. And I want to tell you that not many people would come to me and tell me that, but she knew it was Christ, you see. They think it's me, it's not me. I'm a pussycat.
So they're scared of the authority that's here, and they're scared of the word because they think they're being destroyed. And I've prayed in deliverance for people that God is calling to this ministry. I don't mean me, I don't mean Living Epistles. It's this ministry of Christ that's pouring out in the earth in this hour. It's called perfection, the ministry of perfection, and they're really frightened, and they've come to me and said, you're killing me, I'm going to die. And I said, I'm not killing you, but your Adamic soul it must die. It's Christ in you that's coming forth and he is, indeed, killing your soul. He is killing your soul, it's true you're dying, but you're not going to be wiped off the face of the earth when you die. When you die you're going to be raised from the dead in him. You can't be resurrected until you die. Yes?
COMMENT: We have to remember in our weaknesses, is strength. Praise God, that's how I always look at it when I'm going through that myself.
PASTOR VITALE: That's true. When we try to save ourselves, we prevent Christ from being fully born in us,
It's a spiritual mystery, and it makes no sense to the carnal mind at all, but if we don't have any revelation that it's Adam thinking in our head, that we're now two men, we're Christ and we're Adam and hopefully we're Christ. We become Christ when we reject the Adamic thoughts, but we go through a season where we may not be able to tell the difference. If we get thoughts in our mind that we're dying or we're being destroyed, Adam's being destroyed, it's true.
So you have two choices. You can join with Christ to kill him, or you can try to save your life, and what did Jesus say? He who saves his life is going to lose it, and he who offers up his life is going to find it in the resurrected life of Jesus Christ. But I find people in their.... I'm glad whenever anyone communicates with me. A lot of people just go away, you know. Talk to me, if you tell me anything, you can tell me anything you want to tell me, anything that's bothering you, you could tell me anything, I'll listen to anything that you have to say as long as you're not screaming at me, you know. I'll listen to anything that you have to say if you talking in a civil tone to me.
Some people think that their life is in danger. I've had people tell me, my life is in danger. I said you're right. Why are you defending your wicked sin-filled life? It's funny but it's true. I mean this particular person was terrified, she was really scared. I don't know....everybody's been reading the Bible, these people, they've been raised in the church and they're reading the Bible for years, you know, he who tries to save his life is going to lose it, you know, and then they find out that they're dying, and they're trying to save their life.
So what does that mean? It means that there are very few people in this hour that these Scriptures are real to. They're not....they think they understand them, but, you know, you really don't. I don't....if you personally....but most of us.
Until God comes to us and makes a particular Scripture alive for us, we really don't know what it means. It happens to me all the time. I hear a Scripture, I say, ah is that what that means? Because I still have plenty to learn too. Jesus was in full stature, and he expounded on the whole Bible. He spoke all through the Scriptures that talked about his being raised from the dead on the road to Emmaus. He knew the whole Bible in his heart, so I know I'm not raised from the dead yet. I don't have to worry about that. So we're all learning, and we have to get the spirit of this word. We walk around with this book and it's nice, the book. We need the book, but we've got to open our hearts because that letter's going to kill us. You have to die, and you have to be willing to die.
I know there was a woman I was ministering to for months, and the Lord was calling her, and she called me up on the phone, and I would tell her what I knew the Lord wanted her to hear and she says....and she was getting so mad at me, she says to me, I'm very irritated with you. I want to you know, I have five, but you don't understand, I have five children. And I said to her, all I'm asking you, all I'm suggesting for you to do, is say, Lord, if you want me to do such and such a thing, you know I have five children, make a way. That's all I'm suggesting that you pray. But you don't understand I have five children.
I saw her last week. She's been in church every night taking her kids with her. And I said to her, but I thought you had five children? She finally prayed the prayer and the Lord made a way. Got to let go. Everything is possible with Christ, but we want to rule, and we want to be in control, and we're being afflicted by all kinds of unGodly thoughts and motives coming from our Adamic mind that do not want us to enter in.
See, what we see in the Christian world today, it's really kindergarten, it's kindergarten. This is the real thing, this is the real thing, and I don't even know what the Lord wants me to say. It's for mature people. There are some young people, but most of the people are not twenty years old. I know you're in your twenties, but it's not typical. You need some kind of foundation in life, you know, some kind of strength. You live for a few years, you go through hard times, you overcome, you get stronger.
I don't see many young people called, although I see a very heavy call on your life, but you're not typical. It means that you're not the average person that I see. Maybe he's doing something else in China, I don't know, but from all the people that I see him calling to perfection in this hour, you're one of the very few young ones. I've seen a couple of young ones, but you seem to be moving in a lot of strength, you know. Very few young ones, and very few men, very few men, very few men.
I see him calling mature people that have been through things in life, and I see him calling, as a general rule, mature believers. The ones that seem to be receiving this, the stronger the background you've had, you know, the more likely you are to be receiving this word, but, of course. God could do anything. I'm just giving you my observations.
God could do anything, and by the time he stands up in full stature, he could turn this whole thing completely around. I don't know, but the way I see....I see people that have been in deliverance being very likely candidates for this, that have had any kind of deliverance in their mind at all. If they sat in a deliverance ministry for a couple of years and whatever God's done with their minds, they're very likely candidates, but they're not the only candidates, you know. Some people just have an open their heart towards God, Yes? Just do me a favor and...
COMMENT: Is that why I get attacked all the time emotionally, and spiritually, and mentally because of my calling?
PASTOR VITALE: Oh yes! Definitely.
COMMENT: Because I know some Christians that don't have the problems I have.
PASTOR VITALE: Welcome to the club, welcome to the club, yeah....
COMMENT: Not that I'm better than they are. I just want to know is it because my calling is a little deeper or something?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, because the two minds are operating in you.
You see, every Christian out there does not have the mind of Christ. They have the Holy Spirit, okay, but he has not formed Christ in them. Christ must be formed in us, and when Christ is formed in us, no matter how basic a stage, he starts attacking our carnal mind, he starts giving us different ideas, and that's when you have the conflict, well is this true or is that true? But if all you have is the Holy Spirit, and life is wonderful as it is when you're in the carriage when you're six months old, and you get fed every time you cry, and your mother changes your diaper and powders you up, you know.
It's very nice to go to church and experience all this comfort, but you've got to grow up some time, and God, apparently, has called you to this. So as soon as his life starts appearing in you, and you have two different sets of thoughts in your mind.... First of all, Christ.... there is a conflict over that, but Satan rises up and does everything he can to convince you to get away from where God wants you, and you have all that you do frequently. And I'm not saying you have to have it, I'm not putting anything on anybody, but frequently you have a lot of conflict, and I know that I've been in need of prayer almost continuously for years except the Lord's bringing me to a place now where he is rising up from within me and delivering me.
You know, I don't know anyone else so I don't have exact answers for you in a lot of ways. There are preachers out there in the world today, they're in the Sonship and they're in the kingdom camp, and I heard them preaching years ago that they didn't believe in prayer lines anymore, that you don't need hands laid on you, and you don't need deliverance because now Christ is being formed in you, and he's suppose to rise up and heal you, and deliver you, and I could never receive that. I prayed about it, and I prayed about it, and I prayed about it, and I knew that I needed prayer all the time, all the time, you know.
And I was physically sick, and I had great conflict in my emotions, and oh, I want to talk about that too. I had great conflict. I don't want to forget what God just told me to talk about, conflict in my emotions, okay, I had great conflict in my emotions and spiritual attacks that stole my peace and my well being, and a lot of Christians that don't understand tell you, well there's something wrong with you, or you have no faith, or there's sin in your life, or there's something wrong with you. You shouldn't need prayer all the time like this, you shouldn't need help all the time. And I really prayed about this, and I felt that it wasn't true, and I even stopped praying for people for a season because I wanted to be in with the "in" crowd.
And this was the kingdom camp, you know, but God showed me that the number....if there is a number one catch-word in his kingdom, it's mercy and compassion, and you have to have mercy and compassion on the people.
So I started praying for people again, and the Lord has just recently shown me that we do come to a place where Christ will be mature enough in us to deliver us from within, but you can't tell people that are not in that place that I'm not going to pray for you, you know. And this is the same thing that we went through when we came out of deliverance. I found a lot of ministries that were in deliverance, they went on to the kingdom message and they said, deliverance is not valid. I got all the deliverance I needed, so I don't need it anymore, so you shouldn't have it either. That's what they were saying.
That's like saying, I graduated from the third grade so let's wipe out kindergarten and the first and the second grade, and all these people coming up, you can't get educated, that's what they were saying, okay. So the Lord is recently bringing me into a place where the Christ is rising up in me and bringing deliverance, and I want you to know it's very exciting, but I'm not completely in that place.
Sometimes he'll send me for prayer, but if you feel you need prayer, don't let anyone condemn you for it. If you need prayer for a physical ailment or if you need prayer for a spiritual attack in your soul, or emotional distress, prayer is the children's bread, deliverance is the children's bread, don't let anyone condemn you on that or take it away from you because it's just a lack of understanding in the church. Everybody means well, you know, most Christians mean well, but there is a lot of ignorance in the church.
Xxxxxx and I heard a testimony last week. We were talking to a paranoid, schizophrenic man, highly demonized man, such a sweet person, and he said he had started going to a Pentecostal church, and he was going like five nights a week. It was an active church, they had a lot of campaigns, and his symptoms completely disappeared, and they came to him, the elders of the church came to him and said, you never got baptized with the Holy Spirit, you don't speak in tongues and you're not saved. And he got so upset he left the church, and his symptoms came back and got worse.
So there's a lot of ignorance in the church. So I wanted to talk about the conflict in your emotions. You get attacked in your mind, okay. What's happening to you, and if it isn't happening to the other people sitting here, if it's not happening to you yet, there's a good chance it's going to start happening to you, so it's always good to be warned in advance. Right?
Well, you all heard about the battle of Armageddon. I'm sorry, it's not in the Middle East. It's in your mind, it's in your mind, okay and there's two ruling spirits, Their names are Christ and Satan, and they want to be your thoughts, and they want your body to do what your thoughts tell you to do.
At an extreme, for an extreme example, Satan ruling in your mind wants you to fornicate, he wants you to commit adultery, he wants you to beat your children, he wants you to engage in homosexual activities, he want you to take drugs, drink, smoke, that's obvious, that's obvious, but the battle gets very subtle, and it's a continuous battle. Again, this is your condition. Christ starts in a position of weakness. He's got this Adamic foreskin layering over him, and there's a warfare going on. It's called the White Throne Judgment, because every time Adam gives you an ungodly thought, Christ is right there. He's your new conscience, and he's saying to you, oh no.
Okay, and then sometimes Christ gives you thoughts, he'll give you thoughts with regard to doctrine, truth, he'll give you thoughts with regard to instructions for your spiritual education, and Adam which is ruled by Satan, Satan is the unconscious mind, Adam is the conscious mind, is going to start saying lies, don't obey the instructions. This is not the truth, and a lot of people....and you went through it for a few weeks but, apparently, you've got a strong relationship with the Lord, they get so distressed, they just withdraw. Right? You went into confusion, didn't you tell me that? That you didn't know what to do, you didn't know what was true, and you became frightened, and afraid of being deceived.
Okay, so the average person when this conflict attacks their mind, they withdraw, but what has happened? Satan has won. If this was Christ talking to you with regard to true doctrine and instruction for your spiritual education and Satan succeeds in making you confused and afraid and fearful and mistrusting of where he is sending you, so you withdraw, Satan has won. So how do we deal with this?
I think we touched on it earlier today. We must be in constant prayer, we must be constantly open to whatever God wants for us, whatever truth he has for us, wherever he wants us to go and ask him to deliver us from the deception, but it can be very painful, it can be very painful.
And frequently the....we're not without a knowledge of Satan's devices, but we read about it a lot in the Bible, and when it happens to us we don't recognize it. He makes us leery and distrustful of people that God's put in our lives. I had a woman going through this last week, she came to me. The night that I met her she had, had a dream about witchcraft. The Lord gave me an interpretation of her dream. This was months ago, eight months ago, she just said to me recently, you know I decided that, that was you in that dream with the witchcraft. We were laughing about it because the Lord gave her the victory, she got deliverance, and she was telling me all these things that she was thinking. So we have to really get before God, and I tell you fear is never of God. Although, withdrawing for a season is a Godly way to deal with it as long as you remain open to the Lord, but as we move on with God, and as he makes us aware of these things, he expects us to get stronger and stronger because the attacks are going to come stronger and stronger.
Oh, I know what I wanted to talk about. Thank you Jesus. And as Christ grows in us, this is really important, as Christ grows in us we start entering into a deep spiritual realm. Now you've heard of discernment, but this goes beyond discernment. Jesus knew everybody's thoughts, he knew what every man was thinking and we're....if you haven't already started to enter into it, you're going to start to enter into it, and I'm telling you it's true because I experience this. You will start hearing people's thoughts, you will know what they're thinking and sometimes you will....sometimes I hear an audible voice. Have you experienced that so far?
Okay, now it can be very frightening. Do you want to give us a testimony?
COMMENT: I was praying for this young couple about two years ago. I've been praying for them for like eleven weeks, and after I was praying for eleven weeks, I felt something in my spirit about this young man. I felt that he was thinking this way, and he was feeling this way, and nobody told me anything, but I had this feeling. I had these thoughts about something, and then when I was in Puerto Rico I kept having these feelings, and these thoughts, and these dreams and then when I came back from my vacation, I found out that what I thought was going to....what I felt that this person was thinking, I was praying for God's will and that everything would be okay, and you know, oh, I was praying that they were going out, and that God's will be done if they are to be married that....you know, that the Lord will just deliver them out of lust and fornication and that God will help them make the right decision, you know, and I just was feeling that this person was feeling a certain way, he was feeling a certain way. I just kept having these feelings about something, and then a couple of weeks later a lady told me what was going on, and I was like Gee, I felt that this was happening. I had a feeling that this was going on. Nobody had told me anything, but it was just a feeling and a thought, and what I was feeling was what this person was going through, and it came to pass a couple of weeks later. So is that the same thing what you're saying?
PASTOR VITALE: It's similar, it's similar, but it starts to get very intense, okay.
So the Lord wants you to know about this so when it happens you can recognize it. That's the way it could begin, okay. The way it started with me was that I would find myself having....I use to call them imaginary conversations, and I'd be sitting reading the Bible and all of a sudden I'd be having this conversation with somebody, usually I'd be rebuking them or arguing with them, and I didn't tell anybody because I thought I was losing it, you know, and then these would come to pass, not exactly the same words, but the incidents would come to pass, and the Lord told me that I was entering into a deep realm of the spirit, and that I was in a trance, and that this certainly was not imaginary, but something was happening. I actually entered into the realm of the spirit, and something was happening.
And this happens to me from time to time. I have no control over it. The Lord brings me in, and I know that it's a prayer, it's a deep prayer that the Lord is working through the realm of the spirit. Sometimes I hear people's voices. I remember when this first started with me, I wasn't preaching yet. I was in another church, and I heard, I recognized the voice and she was saying very cruel things about me, and I got very frightened.
Right away I thought that it's a demon, and I went before the Lord, and I put it before God and I asked him if it was a demon to help me, and if it wasn't to just witness this whole thing to me, and I went into church that night, and we had a visiting preacher and he preached on Elisha knowing what the king of Assyria was saying in his bedroom, and I knew the Lord had told me that I heard what this person said, and it was revealed three months later, that she had, in fact, said that, and she was trying to do evil to me.
And sometimes it comes as thoughts in my mind. Now this is the really important part that I'm trying to get to you. I'm having a little trouble getting it out. We know that the living soul is likened as water. The Scripture likens it as water. Right? I'll draw it like this, and we are Christ and we're living under water because this world is 96% water. This is the sea over here, it's the sea of the living soul. It's like we were in a deep sea divers suit, and we're down under the water, and sometimes when we get spiritual communications, it doesn't sound exactly right. Now what seems to happen....now we know that the living soul is the mirror image of the spirit. Let me erase this over here.
When we look at a mirror, we see an exact duplicate of our self, but when a spiritual being looks in a mirror, this is the mirror, when a spirit looks in the mirror and he looks on the other side, he doesn't see the exact same thing, he sees a soulish thing, and we know that when the spirit of God looks in this mirror, he sees a glorified man.
I'll draw a scepter in his hand, he's a glorified man. This is when God the Father looks in the mirror, he sees Christ, and when Satan looks in the mirror, he sees a natural man. On one side of the mirror is the spiritual realm and on the other side of the mirror is the soul realm. So when we get a communication from over here, it has to go through this mirror, and it's not going to come out the same way. So what am I trying to say to you?
This is the way this discernment works. Someone's filled with hate, okay, sometimes I feel love, but I have to tell you the truth, usually it's ungodliness that comes through. Usually God shows me people's sins. Why? So that we could pray for them, okay. We have to ask God what he wants us to do. I'm having trouble getting this word out, I don't know why, just help me Lord.
True discernment is not seeing little green men, okay, and we have a measure of discernment where we could look at somebody's face and see anger. Okay, that's a measure of discernment, but it goes much deeper than that. And a deeper level of discernment is feeling in your heart what somebody's feeling.
Now this person might be wise enough to know that they can't let you know that they hate you. Okay, they're covering it up, but God lets you feel what they're feeling, and the first thing you're going to think is that it's your feeling, and you're going to think that it's your sin. This is what I'm trying to get out. It's really important that when you start to be aware of sin in your heart, you have to ask the Lord whose sin it is. If you're sinning against another human being, there's another person involved, and your thought comes into your mind that you hate them.
Of course if it's you, you have to repent, but what I'm telling you is that it may not be you. And the way I deal with it is, I go before the Lord immediately and say, Father, if it's me I repent, have mercy on them, break any curse I may have put on them, bless them, and help me. Who wants to hate anybody? But if it's not me, if they're hating me, reveal it to me so that I don't have to walk under....I know I'm not suppose to be condemned, but it's not a pleasant feeling knowing that there's hate in your heart for somebody. So if they're hating me, let me be aware of it, and tell me what you want me to do about it.
Okay, and it happened right here in this apartment. There was a woman here and there was a second woman here, and I knew that the first woman was angry at the second woman. I knew because she had told me, no super spiritual thing. She had told me she was very angry at her. About a week before, she had told me that she was very angry at her, and they both came the same night and neither one knew the other one was going to be here, and when the second one walked up, and they met each other, and they kissed and they hugged, and they asked each other how they were, and I'm standing there watching this. She had just told me I'm mad, and I knew she was still mad at her.
You would have never guessed it in a million years, and the evening went on, and the first woman that was angry, she was leaving, she was sitting right over there, the second woman was sitting over there, and I was sitting over there, and this woman, who you would have never believed in a million years was angry, and you know she did the sociably acceptable thing. She knew that her anger wasn't justified, so she kept it quiet. She left, and this woman says to me the one that was left, I am so upset, my head....you wouldn't believe the thoughts that are going through my mind, and she thought it was her thoughts, and she was so angry, and she was so condemned, and all the thoughts that the first woman was mad at her for. She was mad at her because she thought that this young woman had no right to be doing some things, which really wasn't her business anyway you know.
So this young woman was saying, ah, I'm doing this wrong, and I'm doing that wrong, and I shouldn't be doing this, and I'm sitting there looking at her, and I knew because the woman had just spoke the same exact words to me on the phone the week before.
And I tried to tell this young woman that you were just attacked spiritually, and these are not your thoughts, these are the unspoken....well the words were spoken, but they were spoken today, and I want you to know that I had a lot of trouble convincing this young woman that it wasn't her thoughts, because she had a heavy spirit of condemnation on her, and she received that she was thinking these wicked thoughts, and they were wicked.
So as we enter into spirituality, we're not only going to know what people are thinking, we're going to be feeling what they're thinking and feeling. We're going to be feeling their anger. We're not just going to be knowing the words that they're speaking, but their anger, and their hate, and their envy is going to be registering in our own soul. We're going to be feeling it.
Have you ever been in a service where a preacher stood up in a healing service and he says, "Oh, I've got a pain in my left hip, there's somebody here with a pain in their left hip, oh it's you come up I'll pray for you, I got a headache, there's somebody here with a headache, come up." Were you ever in a service like that?
This is the same thing spiritually. They're hating, you feel the hatred, they're jealous, you feel the envy. Only with the natural gift if you're in a healing service, you know that it's a gift and God's calling all these people, but we're in higher grades now, and this isn't going to happen only in a church service. You don't even have to be in the presence of the person for it to happen. They could be on the other side of the world. I want to tell you....I'm going to give you a testimony.
A couple of months ago, you see I'm really....God is training me, I'm not a hundred percent, but I'm very well trained, as soon as....and this is the catch word that the Lord gave me, this is the tester. If there's something manifesting in your heart that's not typical of you, it's suspicious. I woke up one morning, and there was wickedness in my heart. I was mad, I was looking for a fight, nothing happened to me, I didn't have any reason to be mad at anybody and I put....and I started resisting it, and I put it before the Lord. I didn't know of anybody who was mad at me, and I started praying and rebuked it in my own mind, repented in case it was me, I covered all bases. This went on for almost a whole day of praying, rebuking it, and praying, and the thought came to me of a particular ministry, a ministry out of state, and I said, well I don't know why they would be made at me, but I bless them and I started praying for them, and I asked the Lord to reveal it because this anger was damaging me, and I was getting exhausted from waging the warfare, because if I would have....I don't know if I made this clear or not, if I didn't wage warfare against this anger, this anger was registering as my anger. It was registering that I was angry at these other people that never did anything to me.
So if I yielded to it, it would have been sin for me, if I yielded to it, it would have been sin to me. So I was in warfare all day rebuking this stuff in my own mind so, finally, I said to the Lord, Father would you reveal the source of this, I'm getting exhausted, and if I can't keep this up I'm going to fall into sin. Well, within three hours the phone rang, and I got a call from California, and this was a woman, she's not the most stable woman in the world, and she had gotten a hold of this ministry in a third state. It was in California, it wasn't New York, and she had called them up, and she had mentioned my name for no reason. She had mentioned my name, and she had provoked the other minister to think evil of me, and the other minister didn't satisfy her need, whatever she wanted from them. She wanted some kind of satisfaction, and she didn't get it, and she was very angry at that ministry, and it was that anger that was just pounding on my heart.
And she called me up, and she tried to draw me into the anger and told me things that they said about me which they probably didn't even say, and I had to put a stop to it and whatever, however I did it, and I offered to pray with her on the phone, and she prayed with me and she must have calmed down. She's not right in her head, she must have calmed down and it went away.
Do you hear what I'm saying? I woke up with this rage towards someone that never did anything toward me.
The rage wasn't towards the woman that was making all the trouble. I was affected, I was an innocent party. It was towards another ministry, they were innocent, and it was this woman's rage that was pounding in my breast. So it's not enough as we enter into this, it's not enough if we feel something negative in our heart.... then, we will feel things negative because we're not perfect yet. Right? It's not enough to say, Lord I repent. At this point, we have to start asking the Lord whether it's us or whether it's somebody else, because I.... actually, by following this procedure, I helped this woman, because she was having all these curses from God come upon her for cursing God's very faithful ministry. You know, I really helped her by asking God to reveal it, and I helped her to repent and to lay it down.
So as we enter in, we are becoming intercessors for the entire body of Christ, and sometimes people that are not yet in the body of Christ. As we become God's servant, we're going to be moving into a more and more supernatural realm, and he wants us to start trying to follow after his spirit, because he wants to start giving us instructions, and he wants us to follow his instructions and, for whatever his reasons, God does not say to me, I don't.... maybe he'll do it to you, but he doesn't say it to me, Sheila, I want you to go talk to somebody and they're waiting for you in front of the bank. He doesn't do that. Or they're waiting for you in the diner.
He puts a thought in my head to go to the diner, and I have to decide whether the thought is from God or whether the thought is from my carnal mind, because I don't know what he wants me to do in the diner, and this is what you're all being called to. And lots of times the thoughts that he puts in our mind, they sound like they're little....well, why would I want to go to the diner? And the way he doesn't....one night, he put an overwhelming urge for White Castle hamburgers in my heart and, at the time, White Castle hamburgers, they don't even agree with me, you know, and finally I yielded. You know, I thought I was yielding to some compulsion to eat.
I jumped up and drove all the way to White Castle on a Saturday night, and I walked in there and there was this highly demonized young man, and he was just pacing around. Of course, I bought my hamburgers, even though they don't agree with me, I was sitting there eating them, and he's pacing around and pacing around, and the Lord said to me, minister to him. And my carnal mind said, Oh no I can't minister to him. I mean it was obvious that he thought that the answer to his problem was to pick up some woman, and it's Saturday night and I'm single, and he'll never believe that I'm just trying to minister to him and I'm in danger, and I refused to do it, and he stayed there twenty minutes more, and he kept looking at me, and it was public place, you know.
God wasn't telling me to leave with him. There was no reason why I couldn't talk to him, but I refused to do it, and as he walked out the door, the Lord got through to me, and he was suicidal. The Lord told me he was suicidal, that I didn't have any desire for White Castle hamburgers, that was God's way of getting me over there, and I didn't do what I was suppose to do.
So I felt very bad, I just prayed for him. And another night I had an urge for a hamburger at the diner. I'm just giving you examples how God works. I don't know why he doesn't say to you, you know, xxxx get up and go, I want you to minister to somebody, but he's doesn't do it that way. I had this desire for a hamburger in the local diner, and I walked into the local diner. It was a Sunday night, and there was only one seat in the entire diner. It was at the counter next to a drunk, and he was a loud drunk, and you couldn't miss that he was drunk, and when I sat down everybody looked. As soon as I saw him I knew it was God. I'm getting better at this stuff. Right? As soon as I sat down everybody stared at me, because what does the carnal mind think? Ah, she's going to take advantage of him because he's a drunk.
So as soon as I sat down, he had several hundred dollar bills in a money clip and he throws it on the counter in front of me and he says, Order anything you want. And he was a good looking guy, but he was absolutely out of his mind, you know, and I looked at it and everybody's watching, is she going to take his money, all eyes were on me. Right? I was mortified. I don't get so embarrassed anymore. God does this to me a lot, but at the time I wasn't that into it yet. I said, No thank you I'll pay for my own food, so I could hear everybody go, ah she's not going to take his money, what does she want? Then, as it continued, I could hear them thinking, is she really going to pick him up, is she really going to go with this drunk guy, you know? And I knew that the Lord had something to say to this man, and I knew that I couldn't leave that seat until God said it.
So we're talking for about 45 minutes, and I'm telling you I could feel their eyes burning in my back, they were just burning holes in my back you know, and finally it just....it turned out his mother was a Christian. She'd been praying for him for years, he had been severely damaged, he had been in Vietnam, and he had killed seven children. And he had to do it. The kids were carrying bombs, and it was either killing them or letting his unit go down, so he had to kill them, but he killed seven children and he couldn't live with himself. He was in torment ever since. And I ministered to him, and I don't know exactly what God did for him, but I know that he got some form of spiritual ministry that passed from the Christ in me to him, and then I got up to leave, and everybody was staring at me when I left.
But I'm telling you this is what God's going to do to us, whoever's called to this ministry. The church houses are school rooms. He's sending us to people that won't go to church. He's sending us out into the streets, he may even send us into a bar sometime. The whole point is, we have to be able to tell what's God and what's not God, and if God tells you to go into a bar, you go. Well, you all know God's not going to tell you to fornicate. Right? You all know that, okay, I don't have to tell you that. Right?
Well, there's a prostitute that comes on the talk shows on TV. She said the virgin Mary appeared to her and told her it's alright to be a prostitute for God. But we know that God's not telling us to fornicate or murder somebody or do any....commit any sin, but we have to start hearing his voice. Amen? Because he wants to save this world, and I want to tell you I'm....everybody's doing the best they can, but this church is immature, and we're not going to save this world by having meetings in church, and by giving out tracts and holding rallies.
There are some people that come to the Lord, but I'm telling you the really desperate ones, God is sending us to them. Jesus went to Samaria, he sought out the woman by the well. Jesus went out to the people, and what he's doing right now is raising up his second generation of sons, his children, to go out to the people, but we can't go out to the people when we don't know what we're doing, okay? Yeah?
COMMENT: comments inaudible.
PASTOR VITALE: I want to tell you he gave me that Scripture just the other night and I really believe it.
I had a dream not too long ago, and in the dream there was a house. I'm going to make it fast because it's getting late, unless you want to stay, I don't know, I feel everyone is getting restless. Is it me? Are you in a hurry? Okay. And in this dream, there was a house and in the house I knew it was the Lord, and the house was empty, and outside there was all this activity and I knew it was the church.
There were buses with evangelists and people running here, and running there, and having meetings, and having conventions, and in the house the Lord kept lighting a candle like he was expecting company, and the candle would burn down, and nobody would come in and light another candle and finally he just gave up. Nobody would come in.
The kingdom of God is within you, Christ is within you, the ministry is within you, okay. If we're going to save this dying world, it's got to be the ministry of Christ in us. It cannot be the ministry of the carnal mind that likes religion. So Christ is waiting for the people to go in. The kingdom of God is in, stop looking at your outer world. Obviously if you have children or husbands, you have to do what you have to do. I'm not telling you not to do that, but, by and large, in your personal life, Christ is within you. I'm not telling you not to go to church if you want to go to church. Everybody's in their own stage of growth, but no matter where you are, we must develop a relationship with the indwelling Christ, okay.
And if you want to go to meetings, and if you want to go to church, that's fine, but the purpose of your going has to be to develop your ability to communicate to the Christ that's within you, to hear him when he talks to you, to understand that it's him, to discern when it's not him, and to be able to obey, because as soon as he could grow you up he's got more work for you than you could handle.
You know, I've been in a few churches in my Christian lifetime and, you know, it's just a condition in the church. A lot of people, they want a ministry. There's a lot of envy, and there's a lot of competition in the church. Everybody wants to be important, okay. Well I want to tell you something, there's more work than you can ever do if you'll just work with God to get yourself trained up. The true ministry is to God's people. You may not get a lot of glory out of it, you may not be on a stage, you may not be on a stage with hundreds of people telling you how wonderful you are, but I'm going to tell you it is satisfying to serve God.
Well, to serve God you've got to develop this relationship with him. It's a maturing, and the burden is on him. You've got to submit yourself to it, you've got to submit yourself to it, and you've got to turn in, you've got to look towards him, you've got to ask him. Talk to him about everything, what do you want me to do, where do you want me to go, how do you want me to do this, is this you, is that not you?
Sometimes I think I'm losing my mind. I said, Lord I can't take this anymore is this you, is this not you, and he just puts me right back to work.
I question every thought in my mind, and I have a very exciting ministry, and he has one for you too. There's more work than he has laborers, and I'm not talking about....I'm not being unkind I'm just telling you the truth. I'm not talking about going out and handing out tracts. I'm talking about him sending you on a one-to-one basis to somebody who's really hurting and going with a knowledge, whether it's conscious or unconscious, of their need, because I've been sent to a lot of people that I don't know what their need is, and I start talking about things, and I don't know why I'm talking about it, and it turns out that it's exactly what they needed to hear.
That's the field, that's where the laborers need to be. You have to be moving by the spirit. And another thing that I find in the church, there's a lot of people, they have the spirit, and they discern where God wants them to go, and then when they get there, when they get to the person, they're so filled with pride. I don't know where this tape is going, I think you all know here I'm not trying to insult you. I'm telling you the truth, we must step on this pride, because God is only going to go so far with us if we don't take authority over this pride.
And they get to the person that God sends them to, and they don't ask the Lord, what do you want me to say to them? They start to counsel the person, and God never sent them to counsel the person. God may have sent them to pray for the person, God may have sent them to have compassion on the person, and maybe if they'd step on their pride a little, they would have a word for them that comes from the Christ in them. Our carnal mind....we condemn them, we lose them, they go away from us, they don't want us, and we've done more damage than good.
So we're not only trying to yield to the spirit, we must learn to suppress our carnality and sometimes that's harder than yielding to the spirit. It's very hard, you know, because it's the pride of man. It's our state of being. I don't condemn anybody, we're all like that. I did it myself. Sometimes I still do it, I don't do it too much anymore because I'm very, very aware of it, so I rarely do it now but I did it, I did it, everybody does it. You have a question?
So it's a very exciting ministry that Christ has for us, but before we can enter into it, we have to learn to recognize the difference between him and our own pride or carnal mind, and then, once we can tell the difference, and the Scripture calls that being washed, by the way, or sanctified. That's the separation in our mind of the two minds, to be able to tell the difference okay. And then after that, after the separation, then we have to start taking authority over our carnal mind and refusing to let him manifest, and if he gets out from under his chains....we're told Satan is chained in the bottomless pit.
Paul said, I bear this chain, Christ is my chain. I've got news for you. If you want Satan in your mind chained in the bottomless pit, his chain is Christ in you. So if Satan gets out and he makes a little trouble, you know, no, there's no condemnation in Christ ever. You just send out a lightening bolt, and you beat him up, and you tell the Lord you're sorry, and you start all over again. God's got it all under control.
COMMENT: Also he sends people to us. Sometimes, you know, you might not be in that position where he's giving you these thoughts to go somewhere, but in my case he's sending people to me. That's what's happening in the stage I'm at right now.
PASTOR VITALE: Amen.
He'll send people to you, he'll send you out, he'll get you in contact with the people, and he's challenging us today that when he gets us in contact with the person, to consciously exert an effort to restrain our carnal mind, and I pray, whenever someone comes to me, you know, which is frequently, even if it's a friend just visiting, if it's an old friend, even when they come or even when they're there, silently I'll pray, be glorified in this meeting, I ask that you chain up my carnal mind, don't let me speak any word that's not of Christ, and whatever you want to accomplish, let it be accomplished.
I pray this way frequently and some day, I hope it's not too far in the future, I intend to pierce through his flesh because the veil is his flesh. Amen? I intend to pierce through his flesh and enter into his soul life and abide there for the life of the ages.
I'm waging this war. I want you to know I've got a revelation of this warfare, and I don't care how many times I fall down, I'm just running towards it because I want this thing. I want this thing more than I want anything in my whole life, and I'm going to tell you something, only those that want it bad enough to fight for it are going to get it, and that Scripture that you just said, Go out and compel them, however he describes them, it's not too complimentary, what are the words? What's the Scripture again? Compel the lame and the blind, yeah, to come in, and the reason he's saying that is that the people that are qualified to do this aren't doing it. The people that have been studying the word of God for thirty years, the people that have the Holy Spirit, maybe even Christ is being formed in them, they're doing it, they're not ministering to God's people, they're building their own kingdoms, and they're going out and they're doing their own thing.
So he's going out to the lame and maimed and the cripple. Who are these spiritually? These are the people that don't know the word of God, these are the people that don't have the Holy Spirit, these are the people that are out there dying because they don't know there's a better way. And I got a flash for you, he's coming upon them, and he's going to form his Christ in them and he's raising up an army right now of people, many people, not everyone, but many people that the church world finds unacceptable, and he's going to appear in them, and he's going to be their righteousness, and he's going to be their wisdom, and he's going to go forth, and he's going to do many great miracles. And the Pharisees, whoever is a Pharisee in the church today, are going to be ashamed.
Because it should be coming forth in the church, just like it should have been coming forth in natural Israel, but it's not, it's not coming forth. Why isn't it coming forth? Because they're building and protecting their own kingdoms, and they're all worried about their authority. You know Jesus said, Jesus, oh I just lost the Scripture, but all authority is in Christ. You don't have to protect your ministry, you don't have to be pulling rank on people. If you have someone that's boisterous, you do have to keep the peace if someone's out of order. But if Christ manifests in someone in the back of the church, you don't have to be worried that your ministry is being stolen from you, Christ manifests in the back of the church.
I hope you all know that you can manifest anything you want here, if I perceive it's not Christ, I might ask you to sit down, but I'm open to anything Christ wants to do through anybody, because as we said at the beginning of the message, he is in the midst of us, and he can manifest through anybody he chooses to manifest through, and when you find somebody that's running a meeting and they refuse to permit manifestations of Christ because it's their church and they're in charge, they're not going to have him in their midst very long. Yes?
COMMENT: About three weeks ago I was sitting on the steps of the Baptist church in Port Jefferson village, you know, and they were going to have a Bible study at 7:30. I was just sitting there. I was taking a walk down to the library, and I had to walk back, and I was resting and the minister came and I introduced myself, he said, Oh I thought you were one of the bums, and I thought, oh my, and I knew a couple of people who you know were there, and so I just, you know, kinda went inside and was talking to some people that I had known, but the church had gone through a lot of ordeal, and he was there temporarily for a year and he would be leaving, and I thought, oh my, what pride. You know, I mean before I didn't see this spiritual truth, and I said that's who the Lord wants, he wants us to go out and invite these people in. There is an empty church because he doesn't want bums and lame people and the ones that Christ wants us to go out and seek you know, it's almost for their self-glorification. You know, you start to see things where before you thought they knew, they knew because they got all this education, and then you get up higher and you see. You know not to judge them or condemn them, but, you know, you see things more with the spiritual eyes, you know, what Sheila is expressing here.
PASTOR VITALE: See, the Lord, he wants to rule even if it's in a meeting of a hundred people. God wants to rule.
Now we have a lot of carnal people in church, so if you have a hundred people and they're not manifesting Christ, well you do have to tell them to please sit down, okay, you have to do that, but what happens is that when Christ starts to move, they still tell you to sit down. Christ demands the right to manifest in any member that's in a meeting that he wants to, and anyone that tells him to sit down is manifesting anti-Christ, and when you put a meeting under carnal rules and carnal restrictions, you are limiting the Holy Ghost and he's going to go elsewhere.
He'll stay there, he could stay there for a season, you know. Who knows the mind of God? He may stay there because he wants to bless his people, or there's someone that he wants to heal, but those are in the younger grades. He's raising up his church, and he's bringing to maturity a handful of people in this hour, and we must learn to yield to Christ wherever he's manifesting.
It's very hard, but you could do it, you could do it, because in him we could do all things, and we start by washing our mind, by sanctifying our mind, by asking him for the ability to see who's who in our thoughts and in our emotions, and the word of the hour for this meeting is that he wants you to be seeking him as to where your thoughts and your emotions are coming from. Is it Satan or is it Christ or is it another person? And, if it's another person, how can you help them? How can you help them?
The Scripture that ran out of my mind before was that the princes of this world, they seek to assert authority over men, but the Son of Man, he comes to minister, he comes to minister, and the whole catch is you cannot be building your own kingdom, and if we really want to help people, our motive is very important, and if our motive is that we want to be gratified by it, our power is going to be limited. When Jesus said to his disciples, oh ye faithless generation, how long am I going to suffer you, I suggest to you that he was not saying what the church world preaches. First of all, he said, this kind comes out by prayer and fasting, and I remind you that he said that his disciples don't fast, because why should they fast when the bridegroom is with them?
So has he contradicted himself? No I'm suggesting to you, and let me remind you that when he first gave the disciples authority over demons, they were exalted and they were saying, Oh isn't this wonderful, we have authority over the demons, and what did Jesus say to them?
He said, don't be rejoicing over that, but be rejoicing that your name's written in the Lamb's Book of Life, be rejoicing that Christ is within you, don't exalt yourself, don't exalt yourself. Then they couldn't cast out the demon, and Jesus said to them, Oh ye faithless generation of Adamic men that are still exalting yourself. When your motive for casting out the demon is to exalt yourself, you can't do it. How long will I suffer with this faithless generation, this kind comes out only by prayer and fasting, prayer being continuous communion with the Father, knowing what he wants you to do, and fasting from your Adamic emotions, life's desires. You have to be in Christ.
So that's the catch word. It's the season, glory to God. We're waiting 2,000 years. It's the season to enter in, but it's not easy, we enter into the kingdom of God with much tribulation, but it's the season, Hallelujah, glory to God. I think it's going to be really soon, I really do. Hallelujah. Any questions or anybody have anything to say?
COMMENT: When you were talking, it came to my mind when I was in nursing school and I was eighteen years old, it was an army nurse and I guess she saw, you know, I had a self esteem problem, but people, you know, were hurting me a lot. I was very sensitive, which I still am sensitive, but now, you know, it doesn't affect me because I'm rising above a lot of things, the world system that is, and she had said I had a gift, you know.
I use to think about that, I have....I can tell when someone likes me and doesn't like me. I could tell, you know. You have.... you know, you can feel, you can sense the rhythm like, you know, and she said that could affect you. Well, of course, you know I wasn't a very outgoing person so I think a lot of you know there's always a popular group and one that's not so popular. I was with the one not so popular. So you know it's affected me very much that I wasn't in the popular group, so spiritually it did affect me, you know, and I look back at it now, it's many years, but I didn't have the right teacher to explain it to me, you know, as you're doing now, and because we're looking at people for identification instead of Christ who is our identification and so I get so distorted, so as we're growing in the faith and learning about Christ in us, the hope of glory, Christ in us, you know, overcoming and living a victorious life, then we can rise above what was giving us all these problems, the Adamic nature in ourselves and other people, and we start to see things clearer.
That's where I'm at right now. I'm just starting to rise up higher, you know.
I went through a lot of things and all this, and still wonder sometimes about certain ministries and you know people who are in the ministry, but it doesn't really matter because God's in my heart, you know and I realize we all have to grow and there's no perfect church or place. So I'm going on in the kingdom, but, you know, I'm not exactly sure where he wants me, but I'm just going to stay where I am for now, and visit around when he calls me to do that. So, you know, it's kind of a growth but it's standing still.
It's like, you know. you wondering about hearing him, I, you know, I was wondering how do you know when you hear the Lord, you know, how do you know when you hear the Lord?
PASTOR VITALE: Well you have to pray about everything and he'll show it to you.
COMMENT: And he'll also give you that peace. A restlessness or, you know, if you're restless and you're in confusion then you know that's not of God. You know I'm learning these things as I'm walking in his spirit, and when you come into a rest, you know, sometimes maybe it's good just to stay there.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, well that's true, but once we enter into this warfare it's important to realize that Satan will oppose everything we want to do for God and, frequently, when God tells me to do something I don't have peace at all, except that I'm at a place now where most of the time I could tell that it's him. and I even told you the morning that I was at your house, I didn't want to go. There was such torment in my soul, and I couldn't tell you why I didn't want to go and look what came out of it.
God wanted me there, and Satan was tormenting me. But I knew that it was God, so I'm at the point now that I just ignore this stuff, you know. So it's true that sometimes God gives you a peace, but that could be a misleading statement, that you have to have peace all the time, because we are engaged in a warfare.
COMMENT: Yeah, well I was going through a struggle, you know, for well since my accident, I was really going through quite a struggle, and I'm not saying I know now, you know, but you get tired of wrestling, and then you.... maybe you kind of have to step back.
PASTOR VITALE: Well I don't think so.
You have go through until you take the total victory, because if you step back they're going to jump all over....Satan's going to jump all over you. You can't ever step back. I know I've had times where I've said to the Lord, I can't take anymore and he's given me rest, but you can't take that rest by yourself or you'll be overcome. He has to give it to you, and I'm sorry but you can't. This is a warfare, and it's a life and death warfare, and it's no joke. And the peace is between you and God, peace is between you and God, okay, but if Satan's still alive, if he hasn't been slain yet, he'll give you a lot of discomfort in your soul, and I don't mean to be criticizing you, but I had to put it on the tape, because people have to understand this.
Yes, we are promised peace. After the enmity in our flesh is slain, we're promised peace. But it's just like the Scripture says peace, peace. They're going to say peace, peace, but there is no peace. See, there is no peace until the enmity in your flesh is slain, there's no peace until you kill the enemy. You have an enemy, he's the enemy of your soul, he wants to steal it from you.
I asked him if there was anything else he wanted me to do today, and he just asked me to emphasize this point one more time in terms of the new and the old man. We have an old man, his name is Adam, and if you look that up in Strong's it means he was there from the beginning, he's old. And we have a new man, his name is Christ. He's the new man, he's also called the inner man.
Why is he called the inner man? Because he's inside of Adam, and this word "new," it means fresh, and this old man is wasting away. Let me do it this way. He's wasting away, Christ is chipping at him, but, you see, this old man he's going to die even if Christ doesn't overtake him. He's like a plant that has put out all the leaves he could put out and he's exhausted, and this plant is going to die. If Christ doesn't appear in this plant called the living soul, the whole human race would be wiped out. Christ is here at the very last moment. We're about to self-destruct.
So he's the old man, and we have a new man. And he, the old man, must waste away. And, for all intents and purposes, what's happening to him is that he's going inside, and Christ is going outside. I should really put him up here. This is the Father up here, and our bodies.... everybody wants to know what's happening to our bodies. Our bodies are going inside. Christ is going to shine out from us. His glory, his light, is going to be the first thing that we're going to encounter, and this body is going to become a spiritual skeleton like we have a skeleton of bones that this flesh hangs on. This body is going to get pressed inward.
COMMENT: Swallowed up?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, this body is being swallowed up.
I don't know....the Lord told me to tell you this. You're getting an awful lot all at once. Is everybody okay?
The reality of the glorified body is this. We have an Adamic soul. It is a vile soul, it is a fallen soul, it is a beggarly element the Scripture says, and it cannot exist by itself. It needs this body, or the soul would die in this world system. Did you listen to tape eight yet? Okay when you get to tape eight, it talks about this, how our soul, which the Scripture calls wickedness, is locked inside of this body. It's a judgment for sin. The glorified soul of the Lord Jesus Christ does not need a body like this. This body is a prison house. It keeps us weighted down in this realm of appearance. It's like tying cement blocks on your feet, because moving in the spirit is likened to flying.
So we want to get off the ground, okay, we want to get off the ground, but this body is a prison house. Now, I used to think that this body was getting glorified, okay. I'm going to say it again, but the soul of Jesus Christ, he doesn't need a body. His soul is glorious, his soul is complete, his soul is righteous and without sin, and, therefore, he does not need a prison house to live in.
COMMENT: What do you mean like you thought this body was to be glorified, you mean the flesh?
PASTOR VITALE: I used to think that this flesh was going to be made spirit, and that the glorified creation was going to be spirit, soul, and glorified body. That' not it. The glorified body is the soul of Jesus Christ, the glorified soul of Jesus Christ that ascended to the Father. And what's happening to this body, it's getting pushed inward. So what are we going to see? There are many....we're preaching now, we're not teaching, but I do have Scriptures for all this on many tapes.
The sight of the glorified creation is going to be like crystal. We're told about this in the Book of Revelation, and, I think, also in Ezekiel if I'm not mistaken. You're the artist, I should let you draw this. Can you draw us a crystal. I can't draw. I don't know how to draw a crystal so I'll just draw it like this. It's going to be like a diamond with many facets. And it's going to be.... there's going to be rays of light coming off of this, because you know that a diamond or a diamond-cut stone reflects the light.
This is going to be the outer layer, this is the glorified soul of the Lord Jesus Christ, and everything that's on the outside now is getting forced inside. So when you look this close, first you're going to see this glory, white bright shining light, and when you look inside of it, you're going to see the form of a man, and the whole purpose of this creation, I remind you, is that the Lord wanted to be seen, he wants to be seen. He's light, he's brightness, he's glory, but he had no form or shape, and for all of these thousands of years, in any man that he appeared in except for what we saw in the mount of transfiguration, his glory has been inside, but his glory is coming outside, and his form or his shape is going inside.
It's like....did you ever see one of those circular things with like snow in it and there's like a picture inside or a house or something, and you shake it up, that's what it's like. Now the natural is the exact opposite of the spiritual. We've talked about the invisible man, okay. In this realm, in this soul realm, if you want to see a spirit, you wrap bandages around it's head, and you put a jacket on, shoes and gloves and a hat, and you see the spirit, but in the realm of the spirit and the creation's being spiritualized, that which is showing the form is inside, and the light and the glory is outside.
COMMENT: When it gets to the place of perfection, then it would mean that, that spirit, it would be a spirit then right? Would be able to transcend time and space, it would....wherever the Lord told him to be, he would be there.
PASTOR VITALE: Amen.
As a matter of fact I am convinced, and, of course, this was....what I'm going to talk about now is before this condition, it was before Jesus' crucifixion. I am convinced that when Jesus walked on the water that he did not take this body with him, that he was out of his body. I'm convinced he was out of his body. The Scripture says he went to high place, and he was in prayer for hours, and when the night came he went walking on the water, and when the disciples saw him they became afraid, and they thought he was a spirit, and that's not the word for demon, that's the word for ghost.
Now why did they think he was a ghost? Because, I suggest to you, they could see right through him. I'm suggesting to you that this body doesn't walk on water, and I'm suggesting to you that when Peter said, Lord can I do it, and the Lord said yes, come, Peter started to come out of his body. I don't believe that this dense body walks on water. It's against the laws of gravity. Of course, I guess if God wanted to do it, he could do it, but I don't think that's what he did. I don't believe that's what he did.
Just like you hear it preached that Jesus in his glorified state, he walked through walls and when he appeared amidst the disciples, well I'm going to give you something to think about. If he's in such a glorified condition that he could walk through walls, why was he walking? Spiritual beings fly. Jesus, wherever he was supposed to be in the midst of the disciples, I personally, I wouldn't argue with anyone about it, but I don't believe that he walked through the walls. I believe that he was wherever he was, and he thought and he was there. He dematerialized, and he materialized right in the midst of them. Snap of your fingers. He didn't walk through walls.
See, we have got to come up out of this carnal mind, and I do it all the time. I think carnal thoughts, and then the Lord corrects me. I have a lot of these carnal thoughts on tapes, you know, and I have to live with it. Praise the Lord. You have a question?
COMMENT: What about this channeling that they do, isn't that similar, isn't that the same idea, you know Shirley McClain, where she channeled, is that more a familiar spirit?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, it's the carnal mind or the creation, the Adamic creation, trying to do what God does, but it's demon spirits.
COMMENT: So is that exactly the same?
PASTOR VITALE: Well it's not exactly, the channeling....
COMMENT: It's the same thing but from a different source?
PASTOR VITALE: It's from a different source, and it's illegal, and it's inferior to what God does, and it's destructive when you do it with a spirit that is not of God. It destroys your mind and your body. But if it's God manifesting through you it gives life to you.
But you see spiritual is spiritual. You know, when God first started teaching me a lot of these things, going back years, I used to watch Star Trek a lot and I was persecuted for that, for watching Star Trek, but I knew that God told me that spiritual is spiritual, and that spiritual things were not being taught in the church, and that he made a judgment that I could handle watching Star Trek with him instructing me and saying, Sheila this is the witchcraft. It's on Star Trek, but it's witchcraft, but this is the reality.
He showed it to me in the witchcraft, but this is the reality of my spirit, and I was criticized for it a lot, but God taught me many spiritual things because there's....I don't know of anyone in the church that's teaching spiritual things today. And I know when I first came to the Lord, oh, I loved the spiritual, and several times there were seminars advertised, and I have one in mind but I don't want to put his name on the tape, and it's going to be brother so and so preaching about the realm of the spirit, and I ran to the meeting and he never said anything.
I was so disappointed, and the Lord showed me that no one was preaching about spiritual things, and he taught me all of these things, and a lot of people that hear me preach, they think it's occultish, because I'm talking about spiritual things, but God is a spirit. What I say is not occultish. God is a spirit, and he wants us to know about his spirit, but we're not being taught in the church, although the church acknowledges that some great men of God have traveled in the spirit, and they have described it as flying. John Lake describes it as flying, that he flew in the sky, and he saw the cities underneath him, and, you know, we've heard many testimonies so we know that these things happen in God. But the church today doesn't teach it, probably because they don't have it within them to teach.
But when a ministry like this comes out, you know, don't be afraid because it's God, God is a spirit. He has such exciting things for us. Everything that you see in the occult he has for us, but it's in his life, and it's going to give life to us. If we do it from another spirit, it destroys us, it kills our body, it makes her sick, and you can get mentally ill from this stuff, but when you....
COMMENT: That's the only way that you can tell, the difference is that one is destructive and the other gives life?
PASTOR VITALE: The only problem with that is that sometimes it doesn't kill you right away.
Sometimes....so we have to be in....well sometimes we know. Yes, well we have some guidelines. We know that we can't talk to the dead. Okay, we know that the Scripture says that we're not to talk to the dead. Right? Now I've heard from the....I've gotten this from two ministries in the last year, two ministries communicating with the dead, and they believe it's God, and the reason they believe that it's God is because they're communicating with a person or they think, I don't believe it's that person, but they think they're communicating with a person who is in Christ at the time of their existence. Yes?
COMMENT: Isn't there a Scripture in the book of Samuel, when Saul it was I remember talking to the witch of Endor and after he did what he did, he sent and he went to the witch of Endor and then he, and I think the witch of Endor called out the spirit of Samuel or something, and then Samuel prophesied to him after he died to Saul what was going to happen and then it happened, something about that God was going to take away the kingdom of Saul and give it to David? I always wondered about that.
PASTOR VITALE: Well, I honestly don't know whether it was a demon spirit that called himself Samuel. The fact that the prophesy came to pass is not of a sign that it was God, because demons do have prophesies sometimes that come to pass.
Well, I believe that God could transcend anything and if God wanted to speak to Saul, through a witch, he could. God could do anything, he has no limitations, but I don't know how likely it would be, so my....and again I have no revelation on this, but my opinion is this. It was a demon spirit calling himself Samuel, and sometimes I've had demons prophesy truth to me. I used to be in the occult before the Lord called me, and I had prophesies just before I got saved that came to pass after I got saved, see.
So this is the catch. I've received literature from two ministries in this past year that are communicating with, what they believe to be, people who were believers before they died, and it's necromancy, and we cannot communicate with the dead.
So the church is not very educated spiritually. Those people that are in deliverance, they have some knowledge but I found most people that haven't been in deliverance, not everybody but most people, they don't know a lot of things, they don't know about demons, and this one, she's a woman, I forget what state she comes from. I prayed for her for several months, I said, Lord would you have me write to her, what would you have me pray, how can I help her. She seems to me to be a sincere person of God, but she is convinced that her son who died when he was fifteen years old is appearing to her. I don't believe it. And I just got something in the mail the other day from a ministry in California saying the same thing. End-time deception, brethren.
We've got to be educated, we've got to know what the Bible says, and the catch word here is this. That we're not fully born again until Christ appears in us. This body goes into the ground. You know, we know what we're preaching here that the spirit goes to Christ and the soul goes back into the lump, well, if that's true, there's no way that anyone's appearing to them.
But what they're saying is, it's not the dead. They're saying it's okay because they're alive, because they were in Christ. But the fact of the matter is that we're not alive yet. We're in the process of being resurrected out from death. If we were alive we wouldn't die. Our body wouldn't die if we were alive. So there's a great end-time deception. It's descending with great strength upon the kingdom elements of the church.
This is....both of these ministries are in the kingdom elements. They both have what I would call mature revelation. But God is a spirit, you see. I don't know about you, but I love spiritual things. If you love spiritual things, to have spiritual experiences in God, you have to be very close to God, and there's a price to pay to be very close to God, and you cannot have idols in your heart. You have to give him your whole life to have these experiences with God. This is intimacy with Christ, and I am lusting to travel in the spirit. He's told me I'll do it, but I haven't done it yet. I just want to experience it.
I've heard testimonies of people traveling in the spirit in Christ. The testimonies witnessed to me that it's Christ, they wind up on the other side of the country to minister to somebody. Oh, I want to experience that. Then he sends me out for a hamburger and I minister to somebody, you know. I want to wind up in California ministering to somebody. We'll start with small things.
COMMENT: I felt it was demonic whenever, you know, when I heard about Shirley McClain, and just recently I went on a camping reunion with some people, and a young boy was saying, married young man, had said that he experienced levitation and immediately I said, Oh, that's demonic, you know, and I left it at that, you know, but it just, I never felt that, that would be our part, that we would take on something like that.
PASTOR VITALE: No, I'm surprised to hear that because I know that you have a deliverance background.
Well, of course, this is the question we're to ask ourselves when we see something spiritual. Does it glorify God. No, I don't see how levitation glorifies God, so to me I agree with you, it's demonic.
And as far as Shirley McClain's experience is concerned, to me there's not a doubt in my mind that, that's demonic. Is Jesus Christ exalted? Okay, is the person that it's happening to a servant of Jesus Christ, number one, and number two, does the experience itself exalt Jesus Christ? How is Jesus Christ exalted? He is exalted when he increases in the human race. So whatever we do for him should result in his increase in somebody's life. What does that mean? Ministry to people, ministry to people. I personally don't believe Jesus appears to give a show.
Like, we hear a lot of people, they see visions and everybody runs and they wait to see the vision appear again. Who's being helped? Neither do I believe that in a situation like that, this vision....well, let me say two things about it. First of all, in this hour Christ is appearing in the flesh. He's not appearing in visions anymore, he's appearing in men. He who does not confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is an anti-Christ. He is not appearing in visions, he's appearing in men, number one, and number two, when he appears, he helps people, he heals, he delivers their bodies, and he heals and he delivers their mind, he changes their life, he gives hope to the hopeless, he does good works.
Jesus Christ, when he was on the earth in the flesh, did good works. He went from town to town, from city to city doing good works. So if you're dealing with something spiritual, this is a major question to ask yourself, what is resulted from this appearance?
And then again, of course, we do have demonic entities that bring forth healing, but you know sometimes it gets very hairy. The Scripture says in the last days it's going to be very hard to tell the difference, so we have to go to the Christ within us and say, Father tell me the difference, because I believe in the end. Well we're in the end-time, but we're going to be seeing spiritual manifestations of healing and deliverance that are not going to be Christ. I believe it's not going to be Christ. I believe it's going to be coming through preachers, people holding Bibles. It's not going to be coming through Hindus. It's going to be coming through men that are calling themselves Christians, and most of the time they're going to think it's Christ, and it's going to be Christ. Yeah?
COMMENT: When I was thirteen or twelve years old I used to believe, I was really into the, I had a desire to know about the out of body experience, I believed in reincarnation, even before I knew the Lord I believed in the supernatural, spiritual things, and I know it wasn't of God, it was demonic, this was before I was saved, but I would like to read books about out of body experiences, about levitation, and, you know, I used to believe, I always believed in the supernatural and spiritual things, and things that not you only see but the unseen. I would believe in the unseen and things like that.
PASTOR VITALE: Well, you're way ahead of a lot of Christians that are afraid, that are afraid of the spiritual things.
COMMENT: I was never afraid to die, I was never afraid to die. I believed that I was going to come back. I was never afraid of death.
PASTOR VITALE: It was funny, when I was young I never believed I was going to die. I had such a hard life, I used to think I was going live forever in torment.
COMMENT: Comments inaudible.
PASTOR VITALE: Well, we're entering into a spiritual age. You know, even the heathen know it. I heard some heathen man made some announcement, we're moving into a spiritual age, and there's going to be a big conflict between all the ungodly spiritual manifestations out there, but right now, you know, people that are into witchcraft they laugh at the church. There's no power in the church. People that....the average, if you take all the witches and put them together and all the workers of magic that are even in just this local area, they have much more power than the church has. It's just true, but what they don't understand is that Christ is rising up, and he's going to catch up to them and overtake them.
And I have this comment to say about that, those of you that have had some deliverance background. You may have heard of psychic heredity. We are born with very....each person is born with a varying degree of psychic ability that they've inherited from their ancestors, witchcraft and psychic power and mankind....I'm not going to get into how old the human race is on this tape, but it's at least six thousand years old. I'm trying not to be controversial, it's at least six thousand years old, so for six thousand years the satanic mind or the Adamic mind ruled by Satan has been developing its own spirituality which is called what? Witchcraft.
So you've got ancestors that go all the way back at least six thousand years, and you're inheriting that working of the Satanic mind for at least six thousand years.
The Christ mind has been in the earth only for two thousand years, and perhaps your ancestors were not saved. To the best of my knowledge, I'm the first one in my family to get saved. So you have been born with witchcraft spirituality, that, in case you don't know it, needs to be repented of, and you should get prayer for it, but unless salvation was on your family line, you haven't been born with anything of Christ at all. And we have an interesting tape, I think it's number twenty, or twenty one. I think it's....I don't know I'll have to look it up for you if you want it, but where the Lord revealed to us that as salvation gets on the family line....now you know here that your children aren't born with the Holy Spirit because you have the Holy Spirit.
Most of us are praying for our kids to get the Holy Spirit. Right? Okay, but as Christ continues on the family line, the children are going to be getting baptized with the Holy Spirit, younger, and younger, and younger. And I have seen families from the south where they've got a lot of born again Christians in the south and where it's third and fourth generation born again, the kids are baptized in the Holy Spirit at five years old. I've met several of....it's the cutest thing. They talk in tongues at five years old, and the Lord has told me that as the generations continue, we're going to be seeing children born with the Holy Ghost.
COMMENT: We're past what you were saying before but is there a statement in the Bible that says that children of the kingdom are wiser than his people?
PASTOR VITALE: The children of darkness are wiser.
COMMENT: Well, he was saying our people aren't wise, and they're into all these kind of things, our people are just sitting back because they're not hearing it from the church, it doesn't....it's no truth in it.
PASTOR VITALE: It's true.
The average Christian.... again, I'm not meaning to insult anybody, but the average Christian is very uneducated, not only about spiritual things but in very many instances about worldly things too, okay. And why is that? Because God goes to the people that need him the most. The people that are sophisticated, you know, that know their way around this world, they're surviving in their own strength. So he's going to the people that are weak and they're needy and they're.... yeah.
I find that the people in the church that know anything at all about spiritual things are people that were into witchcraft before they came to the Lord. And if you're part of a deliverance ministry, it was my experience in deliverance ministry that a large percentage of the people that wind up in deliverance ministries are people that have touched on witchcraft somewhere in their background. Maybe not everybody, I don't know about you but....
COMMENT: I had an experience about, oh fifteen years ago, where a catholic family lost their child, a two year old. And so she wanted to communicate with the child and so forth, and she was looking at this picture of the sacred heart, and so she saw a figure of her child in that sacred heart. And so she came to the church and she told them she had communication with the dead, and at the time I wasn't born again, you know. I was going between the catholic church and the protestant church, and my sister-in-law invited me because this woman was now having meetings, and she was saying that everyone was being helped because when they came to see the picture, they would see relatives in that picture, and they had healings, and I was thinking of you before when you were saying Satan can do healings also, and so I went, you know, with the intention of seeing something in this picture, and it did happen, it did happen because I had seen my father who had died.
Now whether that was entering into witchcraft, I assume it was, but the healing that took place, it was a very....a picture of my father with a very, very sad look on his face and I felt that he was mourning because of the relationship we had before he died. You know he disowned me because I had married a catholic. And so that feeling, that separation between him and me was pronounced and before he died, he had said, well he loved each one of us, I have nothing against you all, I love you all, you know, but that break I guess was something that, yeah, but when I saw that he was mourning, that he had this mourning look on his face, it made me feel, you know, as though, well he's sorry that it happened and that he wants to restore it.
And I don't know how to take that whole situation, because I did benefit by it, and yet it was demonic, you know, because I don't know to this day, you know, what to think of it.
PASTOR VITALE: Well, it sounds like it was demonic, but we do get healings from demonic things. I know before the Lord called me, I was dying for many years and the doctors couldn't help me. I went to psychic healers, and I would have gone anywhere, and I did get some help, but when you get help, you know, from a psychic healer, usually you get something else wrong with you. But you came to Christ so I wouldn't worry about it, but just for the record you know that stuff is witchcraft and it's not God. Yes?
COMMENT: Do you know anything about what's his name xxxx? He's on TV a lot. He talks about how to have self confidence that you can overcome fears and problems in your life, and he talks about overcoming, building your self esteem, what's his name that young guy?
PASTOR VITALE: Is he a Christian?
COMMENT: No, no I don't know his name.
PASTOR VITALE: No, I don't know who he is, but that's all, you know, positive thinking and mind control.
COMMENT: I know he's on the TV and people buy his tapes, and I know he's not a Christian. He doesn't preach anything about the Godly things. Now I'm beginning to understand what you're saying when you say that demons can heal and all, and I never understood that, but when I thought of this guy xxxx. I forgot his last name. He....his tapes that people buy, his tapes, it seems to work for them.
PASTOR VITALE: Well, it does work.
COMMENT: He's a young guy, he's got dark hair, he looks young, you know. I don't know, I forgot his last name.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, it does work.
This is the catch, okay. It can work, but you can't pass it on to your children. You see if you have a problem, he's dealing with people that have a lack of confidence and a lack of assertiveness, and he's teaching them a good self- image. It's mind control and positive thinking, and people can really be helped by it, just like doctors can heal your body, or just like psychiatrists can help you with an emotional problem. But the difference between the healing from the world, and the healing from God is that when God heals you, it goes down on the family line.
If you have an emotional....you see, someone that has lack of confidence for example, there's not, it's not one person in a family that has lack of self confidence, the whole family is a system. Okay, now everybody's not the same. I'm not saying that if there are three children, you all have to have lack of confidence, but if there's one out of the three that has lack of confidence, you can believe that if you looked at the cousins, you know, the others, or the generation before, that there were people with a lack of confidence.
It goes down on the family line. Although it doesn't go to everybody, it goes down on the family line. But when you're healed in Christ, when you get your confidence because the Lord God Jesus Christ has dealt with the spiritual root of your problem, you pass it on to your children, because these things are rooted in curses, and the curse is from God.
All the judgments that we're under, they're from God. This is a hard word, but God has cursed this human race, he cursed us. Our original ancestors sinned, and God cast down the human race and he cursed us, and if we have the Lord we are in the process of coming up out from under that judgment, but every problem that we have is rooted in a curse from God. Okay, that's the catch, that's the catch.
So if you have a lack of confidence and Jesus comes to you, the way Jesus comes to you is that he breaks the curses, he takes the judgment off of you.
COMMENT: Let's say I wasn't to go to Christ and I was to go to this other guy for self confidence, self esteem that it's still....I mean I can overcome it but it's going to pass on to my kids?
PASTOR VITALE: Exactly. The curse is still on the family line.
So maybe you'll get helped, but no one else in your family will get help. But when Christ heals you, he heals you from the root up, and the blessings go forward to your entire family. So it's just for that one generation and then you die from something else. If it's a physical ailment, you die from something else. If it's an emotional illness, he'll help you with one thing, but Christ heals you from the foundation up. Yes?
COMMENT: Sheila, I have a son who used to smoke, and he went to hypnosis, and we were all against it but that was his life, and he no longer smokes, but he no longer has any use for the rest of the family either. So bitterness and everything else has come in. So that means God's put the curse on him?
PASTOR VITALE: Oh, well no.
Let me explain it. When God curses us....you see there's curses from God, and then there are curses from workers of witchcraft, okay. When God curses us, he puts on the family line a potential for particular kinds of problems. Physically you can have a potential for a particular disease. Diseases....we find the same disease in many members of the same family. Even if you go to the doctor, you go for a breast check, they want to know if there's any cancer on the family. Right? The whole world knows that, that certain families have potential for certain diseases, and certain families have potential for certain emotional problems. Whether it be an emotional, a serious emotional problem, whether it be smoking, whether it be alcoholism, whether it be drugs, whether it be divorce, whether it be adultery, it's all on the family line, and when God curses you, the potential for it enters into your heart, okay.
Then if someone....okay, God help me to explain this to her. Then if the person falls into.... falls away from God, or falls into some kind of error and the judgment falls on him, it takes it from the potential that God....I'm not doing a good job of explaining this. Let me try again. Okay, he's got hypnosis okay, and he was healed of the cigarettes okay, now I don't know why he doesn't see your family anymore, but I do know that if you do something ungodly, okay, you have to have first the....God help me to explain this. First, the curse from God is in your heart, and you have the potential for trouble, and then, depending on a series of events, you might break off from your family, you might become a drug addict, you might become an alcoholic, if a witch throws a curse at you.... nobody could curse you unless the potential to be cursed is within you, you see.
Jesus, Satan couldn't do anything to Jesus. He had nothing in him, see. Now I've heard it preached that Satan couldn't touch Jesus because he had no demons, but I say to you that it's greater than that, Satan couldn't touch Jesus because Jesus had his Adamic soul killed. There was nothing....you see Satan's dominion is only over Adamic men. Satan has no dominion over Christ, and Christ Jesus had his Adamic soul totally under the control of Christ, and Satan couldn't touch him.
So we can only be touched by ungodly things where there is sin in us. So if there was sin, if there was bitterness on the family line, or if there was unforgiveness, if he had unforgiveness in his heart for you, okay, this is all sin in his heart. See, the curse from God came when we fell, the curse from God came when we fell down, and we became fallen men, okay. Now we're susceptible to sin, and the Lord says, well, you're down here in this realm of hell, you're down here in hell and the pestilence is all over you okay, and you're subject to it, and because he had unforgiveness for you, perhaps he took the hypnosis and it triggered off something like that. I don't know exactly what happened. Did I explain it? I feel like I didn't explain it. Did anybody not understand it?
God, the curse of God is for sin, and the curse of God, okay I got it. The curse of God is what places us down here in this vulnerable condition where we become susceptible to bitterness and unforgiveness. If we were not cursed by God, we would not be susceptible to it. I'm going to say it one more time, I think I got it. The curse of God has cast us down from the heavenlies, down from the heavenlies down into hell. We are dwelling down here with the pestilence and because God has thrown us out of heaven for a season, and told us that we must dwell with the pestilence, we are subject to the pestilence.
When God removes the curse from us and brings us back up to heaven, there will be nothing in us for the pestilence to latch hold of. It's a low spiritual condition which is the result of the curse of God, which makes us susceptible to all these things. Okay. Did you have another question? Okay.
Because we have to be very careful not to give Satan glory, but yet we want to be realistic about this. Satan is real. He's a spiritual being, he's in each of our minds, but he is God's enforcer. God is boss. We're told that clearly in the book of Job that God is Satan's boss, but Satan, he's not in a position where he can't do anything without asking God. He has spheres of influence which could be likened to a vice president in a corporation. The vice president doesn't go and ask the president, well can I do this, or can I do this? He knows that he has a certain area that he's in charge over, and maybe once a month he goes and makes a report to the president, and we know that Satan came before the Lord as one of the sons of God, but Satan has his sphere of influence.
If you are a fallen person that does not have a relationship with Jesus Christ, Satan has a certain amount of influence over you without getting specific permission, and your only hope is to get up out of that pit.
See, a lot of people think that they get saved and Jesus beats up Satan. Well, he does but that's not really accurate. What he does is, he gets you out from under his influence. Satan has a sphere of authority, he's God's police force. The wicked is the sword of the Lord, so your answer is not to beat up Satan. Your answer is to get out of the pit, get up on a high mountain. Did you have a question?
You've got to get up on the high mountain. I went through this, I call it old order deliverance. It's great if that's where God calls you. I was there for five years, and it helped me enormously. I was battling with the demons and fighting with the demons, and God honored it while he had me there, but now.... when I was child, I believed as a child and I did as a child, but now that I'm on my way to spiritual manhood, I don't believe and act like a child anymore.
You see, while God was in the process of getting me up out of the pit, I was battling with the demons, but now I've grown up and he's got me out of few pits. I'm not down there in the hole with the demons anymore. I heard it, and I don't want anyone to misunderstand me. The ministry is valid for people in a particular condition, and if God put you there, thank God for deliverance ministry, but you don't stay there for the rest of your days. You're supposed to grow, you're supposed to grow.
I heard a preacher say once that used to be in deliverance, he said to people that were still in it, he said, Do you know what you're dwelling with when you get involved in this stuff? You better believe I know what I'm dwelling with. I was dwelling with it because I had been cursed down to that place. I was in a very low spiritual place, and I was desperate, and I was dying, and God put me in a place where I had to battle with the demons and as I battled with them, God raised me up out of the pit, and I'm up out of that pit right now.
I'm not putting down deliverance. Does anyone not understand what I'm saying? Deliverance is valid. We are not all the same spiritual age. We are not all in the same spiritual condition, and if someone needs deliverance and you don't, that doesn't make you more righteous than them. If you need it, it's there for you, but you can't force it on the whole world, and if you don't need it that's wonderful. Don't preach against it for the people that need it.
Everybody's not at a meeting like this. You can't go out and force it on the world. Who God brings, you come. We're not all the same. It's like a mentality in the church that everybody's got to be the same, you've got to believe the same thing, you've got to do the same thing. It's not true. God has children of many different ages. The Scripture clearly states that in the Scripture I just quoted. When I was a child, I acted like a child, but when I became a man, I did the manly things. That doesn't mean you have to hate those who are children or put them down in any way. It's a gross lack of misunderstanding in the church.
Paul said he became all things to all men so that perhaps he could save a few, and I believe within great parameters we are to become all things to all men, stopping short of sin, of course.
We're to become all things to all men, provided that we've checked it out with God, and we have to make sure of our motives. If our motive is the love of God, and the Lord has told us to do it, it's fine, but if our motive is coward, it's not okay. We must get in touch with our emotions and our motives and know why we're doing things. It's called sanctification, it's called sanctification. Then you can't stop it, being sanctified, you've got to go on. Hallelujah.
COMMENT: comments inaudible.
PASTOR VITALE: Yeah, what's his name? Xxxx Xxxxx, it sounds familiar but I don't watch, but there is a lot of help. You see, God's a very merciful God. There's help in the world for people that don't know Jesus Christ.
There's doctors, and there's psychiatrists, and there's positive thinkers, and they really do help people, but it's just for this lifetime. And I've been saying for four years now, I've been saying the same thing about Hinduism and Buddhism and every religion other than Satanism. I'm not talking about Satanic religion, if the religion....if it's not your time for a relationship with Jesus Christ, and you are being taught morals, and you are being taught ways of life that are going to help you to prosper and lead a decent life in this lifetime, that's wonderful. God is not calling the whole world in this hour. If it's not your time, it's not your time.
So if your neighbor is a Hindu or a Buddhist, I don't really know that much about Hinduism, but if he's a Buddhist and he's trying to do good to all men, it's my understanding that Buddhism is a highly moral religion, and he's living a life that makes him a responsible person, and he has made a commitment to his wife and his children and his widowed mother, and he's taking care of her and he's feeding the stranger on the street, and he's providing for the homeless, and it's not his hour to be a Christian, would you please leave him alone?
But his good words will not give him eternal life, because we do reap what we sow. So if he's being kind to his fellow man he's going to reap kindness and his children are going to reap kindness, but it won't give him eternal life, because eternal life is only in Christ, and Christ is a spirit. Eternal life comes when his spirit gets inside of us and becomes our life. But God has mercy on people whose time it is not yet to be a Christian. So we got to grow up. Anybody else? Hallelujah.
01/27/03rs
