XXXX: morning
LivingEM: good morning
XXXX: how are you doing?
LivingEM: fighting a depression
LivingEM: I don't know whether it's XXX or XXXX
XXXX: may I say, Put your hat on, General
LivingEM: you just counseled me
XXXX: sorry,
LivingEM: do you understand?
XXXX: that I counseled you?
LivingEM: yes. you might want to review, "How to pray for an elder," and "Counsel."
XXXX: Yes, I am familiar with it. I felt it was encouragement, but that was not right either. Forgive me.
LivingEM: You are not supposed to encourage an elder
LivingEM: encouragement implies weakness
LivingEM: and puts the encourager in authority over the weak one.
LivingEM: Do you understand this?
XXXX: Yes, I have a question?
LivingEM: Okay
XXXX: Would this apply to a husband and wife when the husband is trying to do something and cannot get it done, and the wife encourages the husband? and other similar situations.
LivingEM: Yes
XXXX: So then you could only offer encouragement if they asked for it?
LivingEM: Encouragement towards someone who has authority over you reverses the roles, and weakens the authority.
LivingEM: This is one of the greatest sources of spousal rage.
XXXX: What do you do as a wife if the husband is being weak and actually seeking encouragement?
LivingEM: Most wives do not understand that they are not encouraging him, but telling him how to deal with his problem, and most husbands do not understand why they are enraged when their wife tries to solve their problem for them.
LivingEM: This is part of the "enabling" syndrome
LivingEM: so common in modern marriages.
LivingEM: To answer your question,
LivingEM: first of all you should ask the Lord if you are perceiving what your husband is asking for correctly.
LivingEM: Most people are not asking for anything, but just need to vent,
LivingEM: that is, to get it off of their chest.
LivingEM: What they really want is someone to listen to them, but not necessarily give them advice or encouragement. When the wife "listens," the husband "holds on to" his manhood, but when the wife tells his how to deal with his problem, she infantilizes him.
LivingEM: The best thing to do in a situation like this is to feed back what you have heard.
LivingEM: For example,
LivingEM: How are you? Fighting a depression. Oh, depression.
LivingEM: I think it may be xxx or xxxxx.
LivingEM: I'll pray that things ease up.
XXXX: Are you saying they are having some problem or are upset in some way which you are feeling?
LivingEM: Yes. That is what I said.
XXXX: I understand.
LivingEM: But the point is that you tried to solve my problem for me, and this is wrong. It is not really encouragement, but a form of control.
LivingEM: What you did, was to tell me what to do to alleviate my problem.
LivingEM: So we have two issues here. First of all, you misunderstood what I said to you.
LivingEM: You missed the point that I was telling you that there was an affliction from outside of me.
LivingEM: But even if the depression were mine, you still tried to solve my problem for me.
LivingEM: This is acceptable behavior towards children, but not adults, and especially not towards an authority.
LivingEM: This is so common in alcoholic marriages.
LivingEM: The mate who is not alcoholic usually treats the alcoholic like a child, and the alcoholic internalizes his/her rage,
LivingEM: and becomes rebellious and abusive.
LivingEM: I am not saying rebellion and abuse is justified.
LivingEM: I am saying that this is what happens.
LivingEM: A vicious cycle is set up between the one who "mothers" and the one who is "mothered."
LivingEM: Very often the alcoholic wants to be "mothered," and simultaneously hates it.
LivingEM: I know I still haven't answered your question. I'm getting there.
LivingEM: So, if the husband, or any other adult actually, is really asking for this ungodly kind of
LivingEM: "encouragement," which is really "mothering,"
LivingEM: it does not mean that the mate has to give it.
LivingEM: It is more socially acceptable for a husband to be treating his wife this way,
LivingEM: by "fathering" her,
LivingEM: but this is unhealthy also, because it keeps the wife a child.
LivingEM: It is more socially acceptable for a wife to be kept a child, than for a husband to be treated like a child by his wife.
LivingEM: In Christ, however, everyone, male and female, are supposed to mature into their greatest creative potential.
LivingEM: It is witchcraft and mind control to treat someone as a child, because
LivingEM: such an attitude either "reforms" that person into the "encourager's" image of them, or reinforces the weak one's ungodly image of himself.
LivingEM: We are supposed to strengthen, not weaken, each other.
LivingEM: If a husband truly wants to be treated like a child, I would not do it.
LivingEM: I would not solve his problems for him.
LivingEM: But, of course, you have to find out if you are reading him correctly.
LivingEM: Is this what he really wants from you?
LivingEM: This is a hard word. I am sorry if I have hurt you.
LivingEM: It took xxx quite a while to understand this, and she still engages in this kind of behavior,
LivingEM: but when I point it out to her, she now checks herself immediately.
LivingEM: Behavior and attitudes that infantilizes adults is rampant through the whole society today.
LivingEM: xxxx, do you want to say anything?
YYYYYY: I have to admit I had it quite bad.
LivingEM: This is part of the feminizing of America, a term you may have heard me use.
LivingEM: For centuries the tendency for women to infantilize men [who were the only
LivingEM: adult authority figures] was recognized on an unconscious level.
LivingEM: Society guarded against this problem by keeping the women "in their place," and
LivingEM: by establishing patterns of male behavior that strengthened the men.
LivingEM: These patterns mostly took the form of "male only fellowship,"
LivingEM: which encouraged macho
LivingEM: behavior to strengthen the male mind and personality.
LivingEM: These methods were anything but ideal, since they crushed the women
LivingEM: so that the men could be strong.
LivingEM: In today's changing society, the nuclear family has replaced
LivingEM: the extended family, and many men and woman are falling into Satan's
LivingEM: trap of infantilism and mutual infantilism, because they don't have this knowledge.
LivingEM: Many men have become, and are becoming, women and children,
LivingEM: and many woman are doing what, I must admit, is a female tendency, to dominate and
LivingEM: infantilize the man.
LivingEM: What has happened is this:
LivingEM: The societal rules which were set up as law, without giving any understanding to the people, are deteriorating.
LivingEM: The only hope for our society now is the kind of knowledge and understanding that is coming forth right now, which
LivingEM: will help people to resist the natural tendencies of mortal men and women.
LivingEM: What are the natural tendencies of mortal men and women?
LivingEM: A mortal man has the tendency to be feminized and infantilized
LivingEM: and, should that happen to him,
LivingEM: to then fall into a pattern of desiring such a lifestyle.
LivingEM: If we can take the Bible literally for a moment,
LivingEM: this is what happened to Adam [collective name for man and wife].
LivingEM: He could not hold on to his manhood, and was spiritually murdered by his wife, who then married the Serpent.
LivingEM: Now, under the curse the Woman [mortal humanity] craves the serpent more than God.
LivingEM: "And Jehovah said to the woman,
LivingEM: and thy desire shall be to thy husband,
LivingEM: and he shall rule over thee."
LivingEM: To thy husband instead of God. Mortal humanity is married to the Serpent, and desires her more than God.
LivingEM: The one who encourages, solves problems, etc. is the spiritual authority,
LivingEM: and whoever has the authority is the spiritual husband.
LivingEM: It is the role of the physical husband to ward off his wife's tendencies
LivingEM: to infantilize and dominate not only himself,
LivingEM: but the children, and especially the male children.
LivingEM: This is rarely, if ever, done today.
LivingEM: So, in this modern world, women now have the
LivingEM: opportunity to be educated, and stop this kind of fallen behavior,
LivingEM: which tends to cause the husband to separate from her emotionally or physically, or both.
LivingEM: It is possible today to have a "mature marriage,"
LivingEM: where neither the wife nor the husband is a child.
LivingEM: We have the option to stop "babying" one another, if we choose to do so.
LivingEM: We strengthen people by "being there for them."
LivingEM: We can offer to help, by asking the other party, "is there anything I can do,"
LivingEM: rather than "doing something" that is not asked for.
LivingEM: "To do something" that is not asked for, is to take control of the situation.
LivingEM: This is rarely what is desired.
LivingEM: As I said earlier, most people just want to vent.
LivingEM: They would like to express themself.
LivingEM: To draw the conclusion that someone expressing themself wants you to solve their problem, is
LivingEM: an error, especially when they mention a problem in direct to your question, "how are you," or "what's up."
LivingEM: Dos any one have anything to say?
