The Reasonable Man - Part 2


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LivingEM: Are there any questions today?

LivingEM: This is Part 2 of "The Reasonable Man."

LivingEM: "Reason": governed by or being in accordance with

LivingEM: reason or sound thinking; being within the bounds of common

LivingEM: sense.

LivingEM: The word "reasonable" appears in the Greek New Testament one time:

LivingEM: Strongs 3050 means logical.

LivingEM: Let's look at that Scripture.

LivingEM: Romans 12:1:

LivingEM: I beseech you therefore brethren by the merciers of God,

LivingEM: that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice,

LivingEM: holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

LivingEM: Paul is saying,

LivingEM: make your bodies available to God's service, because this is

LivingEM: the logical thing to do.

LivingEM: First of all, the Greek word translated "body,"

LivingEM: is not resstricted to the physical body.

LivingEM: Paul clearly says in another place that there is a celestial body,

LivingEM: and a terrestial body.

LivingEM: There is a body made of the earth, terrestial, and

LivingEM: there is a body made from heavenly material, celestial.

LivingEM: Paul is saying that we should make our physical and spiritual body,

LivingEM: available to Christ Jesus.

LivingEM: Christ Jesus is not interested in expressing Himself through our emotional body.

LivingEM: Satan is our emotional body, and Christ Jesus is fully intending to cast her down into the

LivingEM: bottomless pit, which is the root energy center.

LivingEM: Christ Jesus wants to express Himself primarily through our mental body.

LivingEM: The expression of Christ Jesus through our mental body will continue on after our physical

LivingEM: body is swallowed up.

LivingEM: Christ Jesus does express Himself through our physical bodies for so long as

LivingEM: we remain so carnal that we need them to serve Christ Jesus with.

LivingEM: The spiritual body is more than the mind.

LivingEM: It is the mind woven together with the personality and the spirit that they are married to.

LivingEM: If Christ is in you, you have two spiritual bodies, which are

LivingEM: siamese twins.

LivingEM: The Scripture calls them, the Old Man and the New Man.

LivingEM: I think it is very rare for siamese twins to be surgically separated,

LivingEM: and for both of them to survive. Does any know if it is possible for the two to survive?

Myprecous1: Yes

LivingEM: It is possible?

Myprecous1: Yes but rare

LivingEM: I think it must depend upon where they are joined.

LivingEM: If the two children are sharing a brain, or a heart, or a spinal cord, only one can survive,

LivingEM: because one child will keep the organ, and the other will be without an essential organ.

LivingEM: This is the situation of those of us who have Christ forming out

LivingEM: of their human spirit. The human spirit can be likened to the physical heart.

LivingEM: We cannot live without it.

LivingEM: So, when the surgery takes place, only one man can live.

LivingEM: Does anyone know the Scriptural name of the surgery?

JSNGSNG: Circumcision

LivingEM: Yes, circumcision.

LivingEM: "Circumcision" implies the separation of two parts, one the true organ, and the other a

LivingEM: covering, or hood, which can be likened to an eyelid that covers the eye.

LivingEM: Our carnal mind and our Christ mind are not equal.

LivingEM: One is the true mind, and the other is supposed to be a functional part of the true organ.

LivingEM: But this functional part of the true organ acquired a consciousness of its own,

LivingEM: and challenged the true organ for the position of "mind" of the creature.

LivingEM: That part of the mind which connects us to the spirit of the mind, LivingEM: is the human spirit.

LivingEM: It is possible for the human spirit to be joined to the true mind and the false mind at the

LivingEM: same time, but this is a perversion which can be likened to siamese twins.

LivingEM: The two minds are fighting to possess the personality that they dwell in, and the whole of

LivingEM: the human spirit.

LivingEM: Sometimes the personality divides also, but multiple personality disorder

LivingEM: is a serious mental ilness.

LivingEM: So we see that in this dead world there exists the possibility of a divided

LivingEM: physical body, a divided personality and a divided mind.

LivingEM: Many of the personalities of this fallen world are quite content with their lives

LivingEM: because they have never known anything else.

LivingEM: I saw an example of this on TV a while back.

LivingEM: Siamese twins were discovered, which had never been seen by a doctor.

LivingEM: The mother gave birth to them at home and hid them from the world. The two were joined at

LivingEM: the head in such a way that one of the twins had to

LivingEM: have their neck twisted. The two could not both sit or stand

LivingEM: upright at the same time.

LivingEM: When they were discovered, there were doctors who offered to

LivingEM: separate them. I don't remember what their chances were of survival,

LivingEM: but the twins decided that they liked being so close and chose not to separate.

LivingEM: Human beings adjust to anything.

LivingEM: This is the spiritual condition of the man who has Christ formed in him.

LivingEM: Some are so used to it, that they are not willing to separate from their carnal mind,

LivingEM: even though Christ is in them.

LivingEM: So in Rom. 12:1, Paul is saying that we should make our spiritul and

LivingEM: physical bodies available to Christ Jesus because this is the logical thing to do.

LivingEM: In other words, it is not logical to serve Satan and the fiery serpent.

LivingEM: Remember, it is the personality who chooses the spiritual man she

LivingEM: will align herself with, and the spiritual man that she chooses,

LivingEM: determines whether she will exist in this world as her "old man,"

LivingEM: or her "new man."

LivingEM: Now why would Paul say that to choose Christ Jesus is the logical thing to do?

LivingEM: If I didn't make it clear earlier, the Greek word translated

LivingEM: "reasonable" means "logical."

LivingEM: logical.

LivingEM: Doesn't everybody know that?

LivingEM: Isn't it common sense to choose to live out of Christ Jesus, rather than

LivingEM: the carnal mind?

LivingEM: Yes, it is common sense to choose to live out of Christ Jesus.

LivingEM: So what does this information say about the Body of Christ?

LivingEM: That they have no common sense.

LivingEM: That they are not logical.

LivingEM: That they are not reasonable.

LivingEM: I don't know about you, but I always wondered what Rom. 12:1 meant.

LivingEM: As with many Scriptures, the term "reasonable service" sure sounds good,

LivingEM: but I never knew what it meant.

LivingEM: Paul is saying that those of us who have Christ formed in them, but are not living out of Him,

LivingEM: have a problem.

LivingEM: But I have a lot of common sense when it come to the practical things of life, you say.

LivingEM: This may be true, but there are two different kinds of common sense.

LivingEM: One applies to the things of this word. It is called "prudence."

LivingEM: And the other applies to "spiritual common sense."

LivingEM: Spiritual common sense would flee from Satan, yet the whole world is lost in sin.

LivingEM: This, brethren, is because our free will is in bondage to Satan's emotional mind.

LivingEM: Satan counterfeits the mind of God, so we find in this world

LivingEM: some people who are very sound and stable in their carnal mind.

LivingEM: But when it comes to the spiritual things of Christ Jesus, the most stable and sound-

LivingEM: minded person of this world falls into their emotional mind, and is

LivingEM: usually terrified of drawing near to Christ Jesus.

LivingEM: Now, if you are reading this transcript from our Web Page,

LivingEM: you may not know that the Holy Spirit and Christ Jesus are two different expressions of the

LivingEM: Lord Jesus Christ.

LivingEM: Many who will draw near to the Holy Spirit, will run from Christ Jesus.

LivingEM: So the whole world is running after Satan and the fiery serpent,

LivingEM: which makes them unreasonable, illogical people.

LivingEM: How can you say "the whole world" Sheila, what about those of us who are

LivingEM: following Christ Jesus?

LivingEM: Those who are truly living out of Christ Jesus are in another timeline.

LivingEM: I said the "whole world" is following after Satan and Leviathan.

LivingEM: That means the people who are dwelling is the Serpent's timeline.

LivingEM: "The world" is Satan's stage.

LivingEM: According to this definition,

LivingEM: Christ Jesus is the only reasonable man.

LivingEM: And no one can live out of Christ Jesus unless he sacrifices his carnal mind.

LivingEM: And the carnal mind is the temple of the Holy Ghost.

LivingEM: So, even if you are not living out of Christ Jesus, if you sacrifice

LivingEM: your carnal mind, there is power to be reasonable in the Holy Ghost,

LivingEM: when the carnal mind is sacrificed.

LivingEM: That's why Paul says, "present yourself as a living sacrifice,"

LivingEM: which means, sacrifice your carnal mind so that you can live.

LivingEM: How do we sacrifice our carnal mind?

LivingEM: Anyone?

DANIEL42: have your sins exposed, confess and repent

LivingEM: Yes. In other words, resist your carnal mind.

LivingEM: We cannot resist our carnal mind unless we have our sins exposed, and then confess

LivingEM: them and repent, which means "change."

LivingEM: Many confuse confession with repentance.

LivingEM: "Repentance" means "change."

LivingEM: Repentance comes in two stages:

LivingEM: repentance by faith, and true repentance.

LivingEM: Repentance by faith can be likened to the "grace" of this present


LivingEM: Repentance by faith is a desire to change.

LivingEM: When we desire to change, the Holy Spirit or Christ, if He is present,

LivingEM: helps us to achieve our goal.

LivingEM: Many fail to change, because there is no true repentance.

LivingEM: God "helps" us to change, when we really try to change.

LivingEM: There is a false doctrine in the Church which teaches that God will do everything for us,

LivingEM: while we just stand by like infants.

LivingEM: This is a lie.

LivingEM: To change our nature is very hard.

LivingEM: But Christ assists us, and we succeed.

LivingEM: The actual change is true repentance.

LivingEM: Confession is acknowledgement of specific sin.

LivingEM: There can be no change, or repentance, without confession.

LivingEM: And there can be no confession without exposure of sin.

LivingEM: And only Christ rebuilds you in His image after He has wrecked

LivingEM: your "old" nature.

LivingEM: There is rehabilitation in the carnal mind,

LivingEM: but this is translation from "evil" to "good,"

LivingEM: which is no small thing, and in fact, is one of the good things of this world.

LivingEM: But "good" cannot produce eternal life.

LivingEM: We are talking about Rom. 12:1.

LivingEM: We must sacrifice our carnal mind if we are to experience the

LivingEM: true life -- and this is the logical thing to do.

LivingEM: The English word "reasonable" is a translation of Strong's 3050,

LivingEM: logikos,

LivingEM: which is used one more time in the New Testament, where

LivingEM: it is translated "word."

LivingEM: 1 Peter 2:2

LivingEM: As new born babes, desire the sincere milk of the word

LivingEM: that you may grow thereby.

LivingEM: The Greek word translated "word," Strong's 3050, means "logical."

LivingEM: Well, the sentence doesn't make any sense if we try to incorporate

LivingEM: the word "logical."

LivingEM: What to do?

LivingEM: Let's look for a possible mistranslation of one or more of the

other words in the sentence.

LivingEM: "Sincere," Strongs 97,

LivingEM: means undeceitful, unmixed, unadulterated.

LivingEM: The significance here, is that the truth of the Scripture should not be

LivingEM: mixed with false doctrine.

LivingEM: 2 Cor. 11:3

LivingEM: But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve by his subtilty,

LivingEM: so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus.

LivingEM: The Greek word translated "simplicity," Strong's 572,

LivingEM: means "singleness."

LivingEM: Paul is saying, don't be divided in your mind.

LivingEM: Don't think partially with the mind of Christ, and partially with

LivingEM: your carnal mind.

LivingEM: Mixture is antichrist, brethren.

LivingEM: Don't mix your seed.

LivingEM: Thoughts are seed.

LivingEM: Don't allow the seeds from both trees into your mind

LivingEM: Receive only the seeds of the tree of life, and discard the seed of the tree of the

LivingEM: Knowledge of Good and Evil.

LivingEM: Back to 1 Peter 23:2:

LivingEM: The Greek word translated "desire" can be translated "to Pursue."

LivingEM: Remember that the Greek word translated "word" means "logical."

LivingEM: There is no Greek word that means "word" in this verse.

LivingEM: It is logical [word] to pursue [desire] the unadulterated [sincere] milk.

LivingEM: Well, if this translation is correct, there must be more than one kind of milk.

LivingEM: Does that surprise you?

LivingEM: Scripturally speaking, where does the milk, referring to spiritual food, come from?

PSALM 29 2: The Word

LivingEM: Well, the Word is the seed that produces the bread.

LivingEM: Scripturally speaking, the milk comes from the breast.

LivingEM: Does anyone know who the breasted one is?

DANIEL42: El Shaddi

LivingEM: The Word is the seed that produces the.

LivingEM: Yes. Jehovah is the breasted one.

LivingEM: There is the milk from Jehovah's breast, which is being passed to us through Christ.

LivingEM: So where can the other kind of milk be coming from?

DANIEL42: the serpent?

LivingEM: Yes, the serpent.

LivingEM: When I was in grade school, our teacher had a poster up on the wall which said,

LivingEM: "you are what you eat."

LivingEM: In human nurturing,

LivingEM: breast milk can convey immune defenses to the infant,

LivingEM: but breast milk can also transfer disease,

LivingEM: drugs,

LivingEM: addictions,

LivingEM: and -- althought it is not spoken about very much -- genetic

LivingEM: qualities.

LivingEM: breast milk can convey negative genetic and emotional and physical

LivingEM: qualities.

LivingEM: The serpent's milk transfers deadly spiritual genes,

LivingEM: and the milk of Christ transfers the potential for life.

LivingEM: So, when the one who is to be born [that is, Christ in you] is still an infant,

LivingEM: you, the personality that He is joined to, should pursue the pure, unadulterated milk of Christ Jesus [in another man],

LivingEM: which is the logical thing to do.

LivingEM: There is an untranslated word in this verse.

LivingEM: Actually 2 untranslated words.

LivingEM: The first one is "into."

LivingEM: The second one is Strong's 4991, which means "salvation."

LivingEM: Now, how could a word like "salvation" be left untranslated, you ask.

LivingEM: My answer is, as always, simply this. The King James translators did the best that they

LivingEM: could, and thank God for what they did.

LivingEM: But they simply couldn't make any sense out of this verse because

LivingEM: they were unaware of the spiritual principle that it presents.

LivingEM: So when [Christ], the one who is to be born, is still an infant,

LivingEM: pursue the pure, unadulterated milk [of Christ Jesus in another man], so that you may grow

LivingEM: up into salvation.

LivingEM: Brethren, don't study with a man who preaches out of both minds,

LivingEM: because if you expose yourself to the seeds of both trees,

LivingEM: the seed of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, as well as the tree of life,

LivingEM: When Christ in you is still an infant,

LivingEM: the seeds of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil will grow up

LivingEM: more quickly than the seeds which produce the tree of life,

LivingEM: and the weed in the garden will kill the cultivated plant.

LivingEM: 1 Peter 2:3 says:

LivingEM: if so be that ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

LivingEM: Brethren, the weed will kill the cultivated plant in you, even though

LivingEM: you have experienced the grace of God [that is, the Holy Spirit].

LivingEM: So we see that the maverick mind kills the gentile, logical mind

LivingEM: whether the contest is between the carnal mind and the Christ mind,

LivingEM: or between the good and evil members of the tree of the knowledge

of good and evil.

LivingEM: This world is given over to the evil one, brethren.

LivingEM: It is is her world.

LivingEM: She rules here.

LivingEM: We can never overcome her with our own strength.

LivingEM: Christ in the midst of us is our deliverer, but he cannot

LivingEM: lead us out of Egypt until he is full grown AND joined to the

glorified Jesus Christ.

LivingEM: The King James translation of this and other verses

LivingEM: has led many to believe that there are two degrees of the Word:

LivingEM: milk and meat.

LivingEM: One for the baby Christian, and for the mature one.

LivingEM: But this is not so.

LivingEM: There is one truth, and one Spirit of Truth.

LivingEM: Milk can separate into curds and whey,

LivingEM: "Milk" in the context of feeding young Christians, is a metaphor,

LivingEM: which teaches us that there is spiritual food which can be

LivingEM: changed from it's original form.

LivingEM: Heb. 5:14:

LivingEM: But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age,

LivingEM: even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised

LivingEM: to discern both good and evil.

LivingEM: Well, it does sound like baby Christians should drink milk, the watered down Word,

LivingEM: and the mature Christians can handle the undiluted Word.

LivingEM: Not so.

LivingEM: The Greek word translated "belongeth" is the verb "to be."

LivingEM: The English words "to them that" is the Greek word translated "the."

LivingEM: But [the man] who is of full age is strong meat

LivingEM: because he uses his organ of perception [mind]

LivingEM: because he trains him mind to discern between the good one and the evil one.

LivingEM: Brethren, these Scriptures are speaking about the teachers of

LivingEM: the Word, not the disciples.

LivingEM: The teacher who ministers milk

LivingEM: is the man who teaches out of two minds

LivingEM: He starts out holding his mind single.

LivingEM: That is, when he starts preaching, Christ has the carnal mind underfoot.

LivingEM: But in the midst of the message, Satan breaks free, and the whole milk

LivingEM: breaks down into curds and whey.

LivingEM: The two minds separate and from that point on, this preacher

LivingEM: is dispensing both seeds.

LivingEM: But the teacher of the Word who is strong meat,

LivingEM: remains in the single mind of Christ Jesus, BECAUSE

LivingEM: he is able to distinguish between Christ Jesus and the carnal mind.

LivingEM: And the reason he can tell the difference between the two is BECAUSE

LivingEM: HE PRACTICES telling the difference between the two.

LivingEM: Brethren, the most sincere Christian will be deceived and possibly

LivingEM: defeated until HE TRAINS HIMSELF to discern between the two minds.

LivingEM: Please note that an ability to distinguish between the two minds is not imparted

LivingEM: by the laying on of hands.

LivingEM: Neither is it a gift that one receives without repentance.

LivingEM: The quality of spiritual strength will arise in the man

LivingEM: who PRACTICES distinguishing between the two minds,

LivingEM: AND WARS AGAINST THE EVIL MIND to keep it down under Christ Jesus.

LivingEM: I tell you openly, brethren, Satan willl defeat you over and over again,

LivingEM: unless you are willing to become a full-time warrior in Christ Jesus.

LivingEM: There is no easy way out.

LivingEM: God will not do for you what you are capable of doing for yourself.

LivingEM: He will strengthen you in your weaknesses,

LivingEM: but He will not move supernaturally on your behalf until you have done all you can do.

LivingEM: Brethren, the maturity spoken about in these Scriptures,

LivingEM: concerns the teacher.

LivingEM: If you study with a teacher who cannot keep Satan under foot, you will not grow up into

LivingEM: salvation.

LivingEM: That's what the Scripture says.

LivingEM: And to those of you who think you were saved because you answered an altar call,

LivingEM: you have received a lie.

LivingEM: Lord willing, you were reconciled to Jehovah through the Lord Jesus Christ, when you

LivingEM: answered that altar call.

LivingEM: For you to be "saved," Christ must be formed in you, grow up,

LivingEM: and be born again into the spiritual world where Jesus is.

LivingEM: When Christ in you has this experience, He brings you, the

personality that He is

LivingEM: joined to, with Him, and you, the personlity, are "saved."

LivingEM: Once again,

LivingEM: "milk" signifies an immature teacher who cannot tell the

LivingEM: difference between his carnal mind and his Christ mind.

LivingEM: Please note that those who minister out of the Holy Ghost are

LivingEM: not considered teachers of the Word.

LivingEM: And because he cannot tell the difference between the two, Satan

LivingEM: slips into the teaching and sows the serpent's seeds into the

LivingEM: minds of those listening to his message.

LivingEM: "Meat" signifies the teacher of the Word who can tell the difference between

LivingEM: Christ Jesus and his carnal mind, who wars against Satan continuously,

LivingEM: and does not let her contaminate the seed that he is sowing into the minds of the people.

LivingEM: So, Paul says, further,

LivingEM: if for some reason the only teacher around is a "milk" teacher,

LivingEM: you do not have to be subject to his weakness.

LivingEM: Receive only the pure, unadulterated Word, Paul says,

LivingEM: which is the only logical thing to do.

LivingEM: Are there any questions?

LivingEM: Logic means

LivingEM: the relationship between elements

LivingEM: and between individuals.

LivingEM: So we see that logic, or reason, has to do with relationship.

LivingEM: When two people talk without there being a relationship

LivingEM: between what the two are saying, this is an illogical,

LivingEM: or an unreasonable, conversation.

LivingEM: It is confusion,.

LivingEM: Brethren, it is okay to disagree.

LivingEM: But there should be a relationship between what the two of you

LivingEM: are saying to each other.

LivingEM: You should be responding to what the other person just said.

LivingEM: If one party brings in one or more foreign issues,

LivingEM: they bring confusison into the conversation.

LivingEM: A logical mind is an ordered mind.

LivingEM: A confused mind is a disordered mind.

LivingEM: A disordered mind is an unfocused mind.

LivingEM: An unfocused mind is a weak mind.

LivingEM: The energy of an unfocused mind is scattered.

LivingEM: You have no power to accomplish your goal.

LivingEM: You cannot concentrate on the root issue.

LivingEM: There can be no solution to the problem.

LivingEM: Communication has failed.

LivingEM: The parties depart from one another with the walls strengthened,.

LivingEM: True communication breaks down walls.

LivingEM: And heals breaches and wounds.

LivingEM: But there can be no true communication where the parties to

LivingEM: the controversy cannot even agree as to what the problem is.

LivingEM: Or where one or both will not respond to what the other is saying.

LivingEM: True communication requires listening as well as talking.

LivingEM: If you don't listen to what the other party has to say, how can you

LivingEM: possibly respond to them?

LivingEM: You cannot.

LivingEM: There is no solution to problems without responding to the other party.

LivingEM: Without a mutual response between the two, the parties

LivingEM: merely withdraw from each other further apart than before

LivingEM: they tried to communicate.

LivingEM: A reasonable man is a peacemaker.

LivingEM: You cannot be reasonable without also being a listener.

LivingEM: To listen with one's physical ears, but to not hear,

LivingEM: does not make one a listener.

LivingEM: A true listener is one who "hears" what the other person is saying.

LivingEM: If both parties are "reasonable," there most likely will be a solution to the

LivingEM: problem.

LivingEM: Pride is the biggest deterrent to a solution.

LivingEM: One must enter into negotiations with a true desire to solve the

LivingEM: problem,

LivingEM: not a true desire to have their way,

LivingEM: if one is to have true hope for a solution

LivingEM: Concessions may be necessary.

LivingEM: All of life is a bargaining table.

LivingEM: It is worth every reasonable concession to have a righteous

LivingEM: peace, brethren.

LivingEM: May we all be peacemakers in Christ Jesus.

LivingEM: Any questions or comments tonight

LivingEM: May the Spirit of Communication and the Spirit of Reasonableness

LivingEM: in Christ Jesus, fall on you all.

LivingEM: May your walls of isolation and deafness fall down as the

LivingEM: walls of Jericho fell down.

LivingEM: May the energy of your mind pull together in Christ Jesus,

LivingEM: and may you learn how to focus on the issues.

LivingEM: May we all be reasonable men and peacemakers in Christ Jesus.

LivingEM: Amen and Amen.

LivingEM: God bless you all.

LivingEM: Goodnight.

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Pastor Vitale's Bio

Sheila R. Vitale is the founding teacher and pastor of Living Epistles Ministries and Christ-Centered Kabbalah. In that capacity, she expounds upon the Torah (Scripture) and teaches Scripture through a unique Judeo-Christian lens.

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