The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For
Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By
The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.
I have an exhortation for you this morning. It is most likely going to turn into a whole message, but we will see. We know that to go on with Christ, to hope for eternal life, or to hope for just blessings and abundance of good things in this world we need to walk in Jesus' footsteps. The only way we can walk in Jesus' footsteps is to have Christ formed in us and to live out of Christ. Now Christ, Himself, has to be trained up. This is the message I have been preaching here for years. Christ grows in wisdom and grace, and He has to be trained up to know how to behave in every situation, and our personality is being trained to learn how to behave in every situation.
Our personality is Cain, and the young Christ is Abel. So what we are saying is that our whole conscious mind, the mind of this mortal beast that we are, is being trained up as part of the process which will help us to ascend into immortality. I hope that immortality as an abstract idea is not what is drawing you. We need victory every day in our life. I know everybody here knows that, I just do not know where the message is going. We need victory every day in our life, we need victory over every crisis in our life, and we need victory in every encounter with every human being in our life.
So, what we do here is that we will bring correction if somebody has done something that Christ would not do. I am not talking about anything terrible or horrible, but if you do something that Christ would not do it is my job to tell you about it. Now sometimes I tell you personally, sometimes I write you an e-mail, and sometimes, if the Lord feels that it is an exhortation, or a correction that the Body of Christ can benefit from, I put it on a message. So if you hear yourself in this it is not that I do not want to confront you personally, but you should take heart in that it is something that many, many other people are doing, and the Lord feels that it should be on a message.
I will tell you right now that it was something that you did. I am not out to get anybody, I do not want to shock you, or want you to feel I am picking on you. The Lord just put it in a message for me. I was going to send you an e-mail, and the Lord put it in a message for me. The question is, how does Christ act in certain social situations? But, just as a general exhortation, we need to know that if our carnal mind has a general idea of how to act in a certain social situation, and we follow that idea, Christ is crushed in that situation. But even more than that, I am really not giving you the message that I want to give you, I have the most exciting testimony for you. Maybe I should give you the testimony first and then show you the correction. Basically, all that I am saying is that what you did was not terrible, but Christ would not have done that. OK. And where Christ manifests there is such power to change people's lives, so let me start by giving you my testimony.
I am so excited because over this past year or so I see the Lord moving to minister to my unreconciled family, my unreconciled family He is ministering to. Now, I had ministry for my sister yesterday, who is not the least bit interested, but brethren, you have to understand what the ministry of Christ is. She has no idea that Christ ministered to her. I never mentioned His name, I never mentioned anything that would be considered or characterized as religious, or spiritual, or anything like that. So the purpose of this message is to help you to understand, that if Christ could just get our carnal mind out of the way, He has ministry for everybody, EVERYBODY, whether they acknowledge Him or not, so long as they have a spiritual cover.
Now, this is the message that you are going to see coming forth as we continue on with the Serpent's Triangle. I will just give you the example. I intend to go all the way back, before 1 Kings 6, to show you that the king that we are talking about in that message is King Jehoram, Ahab's son, who is the King of Israel, and Ahab was a terrible king. You may be familiar with that verse where, according to the King James translation, Elisha says to the king....well the king of Israel, the king of Judah, and the king of Edom are about to be attacked by the king of Moab, and they go to Elisha and ask for his spiritual counsel.
You have to understand that spiritual counsel means that if Elisha says you are going to survive, that it is the word of the Lord. That spiritual counsel is prophecy. So the king of Israel speaks to Elisha, and Elisha, according to the King James translation, says, Who are you? I would not even be talking to you if it was not for the King of Judah. Are you familiar at all with that Scripture? Well, that is what it sounds like in the King James, but when I looked at it in the Interlinear Text, what Elisha said to the King of Israel was, You have Elohim in you, you have the pagan prophet of your mother, Jezebel, but you also have the prophet of your Father, which is Christ. That is what he was saying to him, and he said, I would not be talking to you, though -- what he was saying to the King of Israel is that you have the potential for Christ to rise in you. He did not say he had Christ in him, but that he had the potential for Christ to rise in him -- but I would not even be talking to you if it was not for the King of Israel, who was the spiritual cover for Israel.
Judah and Israel were divided. Israel was in rebellion. The Scripture says the kings come out of Judah. So Elisha said, I am talking to you because you are covered. He was not putting him down, he was not saying, Who do you think you are? And actually, in the Interlinear Text, even prior to that, Elisha said, You are going to survive this war with the king of Moab. Then Elisha turned to the King of Israel, Elisha, the Spirit of Christ on Elisha drawing the King of Israel, saying to him, You have the spirit of Elohim because of your father. And the king of Israel said, Oh no, not me, Elisha, we are about to be wiped out by the king of Moab. And Elisha said, You have the prophet of your father, as well as the prophet of your mother, aside from the fact that I could not even be talking to you. Elisha did not even say me. The Interlinear Text says, "I Am." Jehovah would not be talking to you if it were not for the King of Judah, because Judah is the elder to Israel. Am I making this clear at all?
Judah is the elder to Israel, and Elisha said to the King of Israel, You do have the spirit of your father in there. Your father was a terrible man, he worshiped Baal, he abused the people in his kingdom, but the spirit of Elohim is in you, and because the king of Judah receives you, your sins are forgiven, and Jehovah will talk to you. Is there anyone that does not understand what I just said?
There has to be a mediator. Jehovah will have a relationship with, and will minister to, and will reach out to everybody that has a spiritual cover. So that means, brethren, anyone out there in the world, any heathen, someone who has never heard of Christ at all, if you have Christ raised in you, if you are living out of Christ -- now, I am not talking, and I am not putting this down, but there is a difference between the ministry of the Holy Ghost and the ministry of Christ. The ministry of the Holy Ghost has its place, but there are things that you can do in the ministry of Christ that you cannot do with the ministry of the Holy Ghost.
I am never putting anything down. There is place for everything, but if you have Christ in you, and if you are living out of Christ, if He is manifesting in you, if He is not trapped under the ground still, He has the spiritual authority to cover anybody that you have a relationship with. Jehovah will, today it is through the Lord Jesus Christ, speak to that person through you. Now today, because of the Lord Jesus Christ, He can go to anybody. He is our cover, the Lord Jesus is our cover except that nobody hears Him. He is knocking on everybody's door for 2,000 years, but nobody hears Him.
So from that point of view, the Lord Jesus, through Christ in you, if you are living out of Christ, will minister to every member of your family and every relationship that you have because you have become the mediator. I just want to clarify this again. Back before Jesus Christ, in the times of Israel and Judah, Jehovah would not speak directly to the King of Israel because of the wicked sins that his father did which were still on Jehoram. But Jehovah spoke to Jehoram through the mediator, Elisha, and it was Judah who forgave his sins, but of course, today, as I said, Jesus is the mediator, but everybody is in darkness and ignorance, and they do not even hear Him when He talks to them because Satan is making too much noise. If they do hear Him they cannot tell the difference. You know what is going on today.
I have got good news today. I will get to that. It is good news. Christ Jesus wants to minister through you to your family, to everybody. You know that Scripture, "You and your whole household shall be saved?" Well, the way it is preached in the Church is not true. What it really means is your whole household within will be saved, and for a long time since I had that revelation I thought, well, the members of our family that are not interested in Jesus Christ, that is the way it is, we do not believe they are going to burn in Hell any more, so it is not the worst thing in the world.
But, brethren, I want to tell you this good news that the Lord has given me. If you will just stop ministering in your carnal mind, if you will just stop, Christ Jesus will arise in you and minister powerful ministry. Now, what is the difference? What we do out of our carnal mind is that we think we have to show the world what it looks like to be a Christian, to say, God bless you, and to kiss people who are not used to being kissed. I am not saying you did anything wrong, but I am telling you that it is my very educated opinion that we should behave in a manner that will be non-controversial to the people that we meet.
When you come up against people that do not believe as you believe, and you are saying, God bless you, and kissing them -- nothing was said, not a word was said, I do not think you did anything wrong, but I think what the Lord is trying to tell you is that, I know that you were trying to be a good witness for Christ, but that is not what Christ does. That is the message. He saw your heart, but you were trying to be a good witness for Christ, but Christ does not act like that. Did you do anything wrong? No, not at all. But someone looking at you would say, Well, you know, I guess that is the way she lives.
My sister is a very nice person, she never said a word. It has nothing to do with her at all, but anybody in the world that you would meet would say, Well, I guess that is her faith, and that is her religion, and that is nice, and they walk away. Did anything bad happen? No. Did anything good happen? Not likely. The point is, this kind of outward behavior is not the ministry of Christ. It is not the ministry of Christ. I have been beating your heads in with this for years. If you want the ministry of Christ to come forth in you, you really need to stop doing that.
Now, I want to explain that. What was your motive for doing that? I do not know whether it was in your conscious mind or not, but I believe that God has told me, that somewhere in the depths of your heart, the reason that you were acting like that was that you were trying to show your Christianity. You were trying to show your Christianity, OK? Well, then, it is not wisdom to talk to people like that who do not believe in that, OK? See, listen, what is our purpose in this world? Our purpose is to get into relationships with people, get their confidence so that Christ can rise in us, and talk to them. That does not get people's confidence. To some people it even makes them feel uncomfortable. We should not talk to the people outside the way we talk to people in here. I never say anything like that to anybody. People that I have not revealed myself to have no idea that I am even a Christian. I may be wrong about your motive. If I am wrong about your motive I am sorry, but I am telling you that it is not appropriate to behave in that manner with people who are not Christians.
Ever hear the saying, When you go to Rome, do as the Romans do? You do that too, all the time, and you should not do it. Why should not you do it? Because it is blocking Christ from coming forth in you. It is a religious work. It is religious to do that. It really is. Christ is not doing that. It is a form of behavior that somehow must make you feel good that you are doing the right thing. I may not be putting my finger on it exactly, but what Christ does is get lost in the crowd. Christ is not visible, Christ does not have bumper stickers, Christ does not have Jesus pins, Christ is invisible, and because He is invisible, He can go anywhere, and He can move by His power to help anybody because He is undercover.
I am telling you because it has happened to me many times, that the Lord ministers to non-Christians through me. When I say non-Christians I mean non-active Christians. Maybe they were baptized when they were children. I do not know how He makes His judgment. Somebody may be praying for them. Is it just the fact that they were baptized? He is reaching for the whole world. Maybe they are a Hindu or a Buddhist or a Moslem whose inner heart is really crying out for the truth, but the could never, never take your word if you are behaving as the carnal mind would expect a Christian to behave, with the God bless you, and Thank you, Jesus. Please do not misunderstand me, you are not doing anything so terrible, but this kind of religious work is cutting off the ministry of Christ in you.
So once again, my job is to give you the information to make a choice. You can continue to behave that way. Is it sin? Well, it is only sin to the degree that it is not Christ, and your carnal mind is manifesting, but is it deep sin? No, but I am giving you the information so that you can choose if you want to. Do you want this ministry of Christ to come forth in you? If you want this ministry of Christ to come forth in you, you must learn to be still, you must learn to be silent, because Christ Jesus talks in the silence. That is the truth. I tell you the truth.
Now let me give you my testimony. The last thing in the world that I would have expected would have been the Lord to minister to my sister in the area that He ministered to her in. I know I am taking a while to get to it. Just bear with me. I am contrasting for you what the carnal mind does, I will even put in what the Holy Spirit does, and what Christ does. The kind of ministry, OK? The Holy Spirit ministers through healings and miracles, and the purpose of this is to get people's attention, because nobody is listening to the Lord. He is up in heaven yelling, Hey, you are all dying down there, you are all down there in the asp's hole, and I have got My hand down there to pull you out, and no one wants to even take hold of My hand.
So He sent the Holy Spirit, with gifts, to attract the minds of carnal men. People anointed by the Holy Spirit frequently do wonderful good deeds. They give out food, they help the sick, they show mercy, and a lot of people do charitable works. That is the work of the Holy Spirit, and it is good. The carnal mind puts forth a religious spirit. It has bumper stickers and pins and blesses everybody that does not want to be blessed. What if they do not want to be blessed? What if that person is an atheist and they do not want to be blessed? It is a religious spirit, and it is also a spirit that is forcing yourself on people that may not want you are doing. It is an aggressive spirit, that is what it is, putting what you believe on other people. I tell you the truth, it is an aggressive spirit. It is a religious spirit, and that is your carnal mind, it is not even the Holy Spirit.
Now what does Christ do? What does the silent, undercover Christ do? He teaches, but He teaches in a person's specific program. He will tell you what you need to hear today, and why would you need to hear it today? Because either you have a problem that you know about, and it is the answer to your specific problem, or you are doing something, you are sowing seeds that will cause you to reap evil seed, and you are in ignorance. You do not know what you are doing. So He comes to put another thought in your mind, but He never comes in a teaching spirit because Christ Jesus teaches overtly like I am teaching you today.
I sit here today, and I say that I am a teacher in Christ Jesus. You are here because you want to hear me. If you did not want to hear me you would not be here, but Christ Jesus teaches this way to Christians who are actively seeking Him and want what is here. But Christ Jesus ministers to people who are in darkness, who do not want Him, who would never be sitting here, who would never be listening to one of our messages. This is the true evangelism.
You see, there is an evangelism of the female Church, and there is an evangelism of the male Church. The female church does good works, she disperses Bibles, and she holds concerts, and whatever. As long as the Holy Spirit is in it, everything that the female Church does is good, but everything that she does is out in the open. Everything that the female Church does, you have to come and take, it even if you do not believe in Jesus, but you want the food programs or the soup kitchen, it is your choice that you are walking into a Christian ministry that is dispensing these favors. But Christ Jesus goes to the people who are not looking for Him, or who have called out to Him, either by name, or just as God, but would never recognize Him. To these people He goes undercover. You cannot go to these people and say, Here I am, I am a teacher in Christ Jesus. They would throw me out of their house. My own sister would not listen to me. She would not throw me out of her house, but she would tell me, in no uncertain terms, I do not want to hear this.
So when we sit in a situation like this, we come forth with revelation, well in this ministry, correction comes forth. It is very rare, in the Church, that correction comes forth. You do find it in some ministries. But Christ Jesus, the bridegroom, the Son, goes undercover to the people who either are not looking for Him, but have someone praying for them. Who knows how He makes His choice? Or people who have prayed, and then do not know where to find the answers. Do you know that God talks to all of us continuously? Do you know that miracles fill our lives continuously, but we just do not have the eyes to see them. People whose carnal mind is telling them, There are no miracles in my life, I do not have a position, what I do is not important, this is all your carnal mind lying to you.
Jesus, especially if you come to this ministry you are immersed in Him, you are baptized in the Spirit, everything you do is touched by Him, and that includes cleaning the toilet bowl. That is not just something to make you feel good, if you clean the toilet bowl. It is the truth. So Jesus Christ goes in secret to the people whose carnal mind cannot receive someone like me going up to them and saying, Here I am, I am a teacher in Christ Jesus.
So let me give you the testimony about my sister. My sister is a very intelligent woman, she has some pride, she is just an average woman, and she happens to be, politically speaking, very liberal, and very pro-women's rights, and very pro-Bill Clinton. We cannot have a discussion over either of these issues. She cannot listen to my position without getting very upset, and without taking it as a personal attack, so we cannot talk about these issues. At this point, her mind is in such a condition, that I think she really cannot, of course I will not discuss it, she just assumes that I am in agreement with her, which she should really know better because she not only knows I am a Christian preacher, but people's conscious minds,that is the condition of their conscious mind.
Well, she was here last week. She asked me to take her to the cemetery. She wanted to go to the cemetery. Usually, her daughter and son-in-law take her, but they could not make it this year. So I do not say one word to my sister. She is interested in my life, I talk to her about the ministry from more or less a business point of view. I never talk about Christian things, I never say, God bless you. I kiss her because she is my sister, I never say, God bless you; I have never said, God bless you to my own sister because I know that she is not into that kind of thing. That does not mean anything to her, and if anything, it would make her feel uncomfortable because that is not her lifestyle.
So she came, and we went out to dinner. We had the whole day. We came back, it was sort of stressful, we had a lot of traffic, we had to go to Huntington. We came back, and she said, Well, I am going to stay for an hour because I do not want to hit the traffic going home, and I had recorded some of Ken Starr's presentation to the House of Representatives. So, that is one of the things we have in common. Politics is one of the things we have in common, although I know I am not free to tell her how I feel. I said, Would you like to watch that, just as something to do? She said, OK. We put it on, and my sister's mind is completely sold out that Ken Starr, she believes all the spin that Ken Starr is this terrible person, and he is just on a witch hunt for President Clinton. And she even said these words to me, that everything that he talks about is just assumptions, he has no proof, nothing at all, no proof whatsoever, everything is assumptions.
So I did not say anything. We are watching the program, and I am telling you -- what is my point here? I in no way was trying to witness to her, I was in no way trying to show her that I was a Christian, I was in no way trying to influence her; I was accepting her and the relationship that we have for what it is. There was nothing whatsoever in my mind looking to teach her or to change her or to influence her in how she believes in any way whatsoever, and Christ Jesus manifested in the midst of all this. The Member of the House that was questioning Ken Starr at the time made a statement that -- I had to play that message back four times.
Basically, what he said was -- now remember, my sister believes that the President is being railroaded, and that there is not one iota of proof that the President even lied. That is what she believes. The man who was phrasing the questions said to Ken Starr -- now, this guy was Ken Starr's friend, and he was really putting this on the record for him. He said, there is sworn testimony, I guess from Monica Lewinsky, sworn testimony that she went to the President and told him that she found out that her name was on the list of witnesses, and that the President said to her, Well, you could do that with an affidavit. Oh, I am sorry, these are facts.
The President said to her, You can do that with an affidavit. Now, this is the Member of the House talking to Ken Starr saying, Is that not true, Mr. Starr, that Monica Lewinsky went to the President and said that I just found out my name is on the list of witnesses, and that the President said to her, Well, you can do that with an affidavit. Is that not true. Mr. Starr? And Ken Starr said, Yes, and the Member of the House said, And that was a lie, was it not, Mr. Starr? And Ken Starr said, Yes. And I could not figure out how it was a lie, and my sister could not figure out how it was a lie, and in her mind she was putting down the Member of the House that was saying this, and Ken Starr, saying, There they are, just twisting the facts again.
I played it back three or four times, I could not get it, and I prayed silently. I said, Lord, why are they saying that? As soon as I prayed, the answer came into my mind, and Christ Jesus taught my sister, and she had no idea. What the answer is, is that to say that you are on the list of witnesses, and then to have the President say, You can do that with an affidavit, what that means is that you can deny that you have anything to offer in this case by affidavit.
Does anyone not know what an affidavit is? Is it a written statement. In other words, the President was saying, Oh, you do not have to go, and you do not have to be interviewed, just make an affidavit and say that you had nothing whatsoever to do with me, and that will be the end of it. That is what the President was telling her, and she did that. She made out the affidavit, she said, I never had anything to do with President Clinton, and she submitted it. She lied. This is a matter of fact. They have the affidavit. So that is what the Representative was saying to Ken Starr. That was a lie, that she did that, that she had nothing to do with him, and we now know that it is a lie because the President admitted it.
So right to my sister's mind, right there when I explained it to her -- she is a reasonable person, she had to admit that yes that was a lie. And then she only stayed another 20 minutes, but the part of the interview that she saw was the very end, with this Member of the House of Representatives giving Ken Starr's qualifications. He is a judge, he has been the Solicitor General of the US, he has a 25-year career, a totally unblemished career, 25 years. He is a very respected man, 25 years an unblemished career. What are these spin masters saying about this man, that he is on the political witch hunt? What are you dong to this man?
And he just made such a wonderful appearance. As he left, as Ken Starr left, he received a standing ovation of everyone, except his enemies, of course. They stood to their feet and they applauded him until he was no longer in the room, and I know that it touched her. And the message to her was, to my sister from Christ Jesus, direct, was, You are on the wrong side, and you are thinking the wrong thoughts, and you are going to reap unhappiness into your life, and I want to help you. So, here I am showing you where you are wrong, not with a teaching spirit, I did not have to raise myself up or exalt myself over her. It was just the way things fell out. I was talking to her on her own level, even though it was Christ in me, I took no authority over her at all, it was just a conversation between two people, and when she walked out that door, I just sat here with my mouth open because I knew what happened. I knew Christ Jesus had touched her.
A similar thing has happened. My sister has two daughters, and a similar thing has happened with one of her daughters, who had a powerful experience one night when we were just having dinner together. And the other daughter's husband (I have two nieces); I have ministered now to my sister, to one niece, and the husband of the second niece, and the second niece is very resistant to me, so I do not -- Jesus can do anything. Listen, you need to hear what I am saying. He will minister to anybody and everybody that He wants to, if we will just sit back and act like everybody else. You need to understand that when you do things, like saying, God bless you to people who are not Christians, and acting like you act in Church, people get their guard up. Christ Jesus ministers through relaxed situations. When people get their guard up because they see that you are different, or whatever, you have already got one wall up between them and anything that Christ Jesus wants to do.
So today, what am I telling you? Once again, you have a choice to make of who you want to be. Do you want to be Christ, or do you want to be a carnally-minded person with a religious spirit? And I tell you this in all truth, without any condemnation, that is what it is, and it is forcing you beliefs on other people. That is what it is. When we come into social situations there has to be, of course not in your heart, there has to be a surface melting of the differences, so that we can at least talk to each other. See, that is what the Scripture means when it says, Do not eat with them. It does not mean you should not have dinner with people. It means you do not have a spiritual exchange with them, but you talk to them as people, and you find things that you can talk about that you have in common, if you have children, or if you both have friends in common, or politics. You find things that you can talk about, but you are not influenced by their spiritual beliefs.
Now, listen to what the Lord just brought forth, because I had not thought about this before. If that is what that Scripture really means, Do not eat with them, if it means to fellowship, because we are supposed to be decent to all human beings. We are not supposed to offend anybody because they have a different religion. I think, even if I were to meet a Satanist today, if I were to go to a social situation -- let us say I was invited to a government situation, and I was introduced to someone who was a Satanist, what do you think the right thing to do is? Could you sit there at that dinner table and eat your dinner, or would you feel that you had to say something to them? I want to tell you, that unless it is Christ Jesus in your mind, you are supposed to be quiet. Unless it is Christ Jesus in your mouth, and you are at a public situation -- you find yourself at a dinner, a political dinner, a school district dinner, and you find a Satanist sitting across from you at the table -- it is not your obligation to tell them anything. It is your obligation to be quiet and to pray, Lord Jesus, here I am. If you want to speak through me, I am aware that this is a Satanist here, and I am ready willing and able to serve, if You rise in me.
How many of you could have dinner with a Satanist and not say anything? I do not know that any one of you could do it, but that is what Christ does. I am not telling you that you are bad or you are wrong, etc. I am saying, Who do you want to be? Who do you want to be? That is the question that you have to answer, and your answer is to Jesus. It is not to me. Who do you want to be? Do you want to be Christ, or do you want to be a carnal person with a religious spirit that has a knowledge of Jesus Christ? Who do you want to be?
So, the Scripture says, Do not eat with them, meaning, Do not receive their spiritual philosophy, do not receive their spiritual philosophy. So, if that is what the Scripture says, and when you meet people that you do not know, or that you know lightly, or that you know do not believe as you believe, and you are continuously saying to them, God bless you, and acting like you act in Church, that is saying to that person, Receive my spiritual philosophy. That is what it is saying. So, if we want to take a position that we can fellowship, of course, under the right circumstances, we are not going to form a strong soul tie with a Satanist, but if we find ourselves, in this country today we could find ourselves with anybody, everything is acceptable here. Satanism used to be illegal. If we find ourselves in a situation -- it is not a religious situation, it is a gathering of people not on the basis of spiritual principles -- and we find ourselves with somebody whose philosophy we do not agree with, and we do not want to eat with them, we do not want their spiritual philosophy, well, on what basis are we giving them orders? Unless it is Christ in you that is doing it, it is a control spirit, and it is a spirit of pride.
It is a spirit of pride that is saying my beliefs are better than your beliefs. Now, that may be true, but you need to understand that when you minister to people like that, they do not like it. And not only will they not receive your ministry, but they will have possibly ungodly thoughts toward you that could bring trouble into your life. It is not wise, and it is the activity -- I am sorry if I am going to hurt you -- it is the activity of silly women who do that. I know that I have preached this from time to time, you are all here about 8 years, I have preached this several times, but I know I have not penetrated you. Well, maybe I have penetrated you, somewhat, but I do not know if I ever told you this before, but it is the activity of silly women. Christ does not do that, and the Holy Spirit does not do that, so who do we have left, and who is the silly woman? Our personality. Our personality, who is female.
So, you have some choices now. I have told you, and the Lord told me to put it on a message, and you can choose what you want to be, but I have told you the truth. Does anybody have anything to say, questions or comments?
What happens is, we get these ideas in our head; it starts out OK. We want to be good, we want to be loving, we want to be open, we want to be positive, we want people to like us, and we want to make a good impression. All those thoughts are good thoughts, but then our carnal mind rises up to tell us how to do it. So I guess the name of this message, which I will produce this message, and the name of this message will be That is Not Christ. You can do it if you want to, but know the truth. Jesus said, The truth will set you free. That is not Christ. Any questions or comments?
COMMENT: How do you undo the damage that you have already done? You have set a standard or a principle already in your character toward your family, toward your friends, and so they size you up almost like a sign, you know, she is holy, watch out, you know?
PASTOR VITALE: Well, that is an excellent example of one of the negative results of doing these things. When we do these things it is not always a negative result, but there can be a negative result, and this is one of them. You get labeled in your family or in your place of business as holier than thou, and this wall goes up, nobody wants to hear a word that you have to say. There is really nothing that you can do. So there you go again, you are looking to do something to undo what you did, and the only thing that you can do is to never, ever mention what you believe, or Jesus Christ, unless He rises in you. And, if you cannot tell the difference between Him rising in you and you doing it yourself, then you are not ready to engage in this kind of ministry.
Your only alternative is to go into a lifestyle of silence with regard to spiritual things outside of this group, not necessarily this group, but in relationships where you know what you have to say is welcomed. What you need to do is punish your carnal mind and learn to be still, and then eventually, as you do, tame your tongue. We know James talks about that tongue, we also know it is not the fault of our physical tongue, but it is our carnal mind that is driving our tongue, and as we claim dominion over that tongue, eventually Christ will rise and talk in you. It is very exciting.
It is an exciting ministry, but you have to be quiet if you want Him to talk. He will not fight, He will not fight for the floor. So if you want a ministry where Christ speaks through you and sets up these really exciting situations you have to become what the world would call discrete and distinguished and not talk just to hear yourself talk. You have to become sober. I think these words are in the King James, are they not? Become sober and discrete, and, of course, how do you come sober and discrete? You have to ask Jesus to help to do it because we cannot do any of these things ourselves.
The first step is to recognize that we have personality qualities that are not terrible, but they are either traditionally childish or female. You could live the rest of your life as a happy person doing these things, but if you want to move into this ministry of Christ, you will have to change, if you want the ministry of Christ. Those of us who move in the ministry of Christ, we are ambassadors. What that means is that our personality and our physical body moves around, and He speaks through us what He wants to. So we must silence our mind.
I saw a movie not too long ago, but somebody visited a Buddhist convent, and the Buddhists were chanting, so the guest asked, What are they doing that for? And the answer was that they were trying to quiet their mind. I am not telling you to chant, I am not suggesting chanting. What I am trying to tell you is that the spiritual religions of the world know, they have a revelation that, if you want to have a reciprocal relationship with God, where He talks and you answer, or you talk and He answers, where there is a conversational relationship with God, where He rises up in you and does these kinds of things, you must quiet your carnal mind. They know that. It is just the Church that does not teach that. It is just the Christian Church that does not teach that.
Every spiritual religion knows that you have to quiet this carnal mind if you want to be a spiritual person, and if you want a conversational, reciprocal-type relationship with Jesus. I know that in the Holy Spirit you have a very strong gift of the Word of Knowledge, you have an incredibly powerful gift of the Word of Knowledge, but it is not conversational. You get words, sometimes you do not even know what they mean, and that is good, but there is something better. I have conversations with Jesus. I talk to Him, and He answers me. It took me a long time to figure that out. I thought I was answering myself until He told me He was answering me through my own mouth. So there is something higher, and that is the relationship in Christ. If that is your hope, if you would like to have that, one of the things you must do is quiet your carnal mind.
Again, I am not suggesting this to you, but I am just trying to give you another witness to what I am saying. Before I came to the Lord I did not know that there was anything wrong with taking yoga lessons, and I took yoga lessons. I was not spiritual, I was not in the Church yet, and my yoga teacher was studying under a Hindu guru, an Indian guru in Manhattan. I went to her house one day, her lessons were in her house, and she could not talk to anybody. She had taken an oath of silence. Now, I do not recommend this. I am just trying to show you that the spiritual religions have this revelation, and she would not talk for three days. Her husband accepted it. She would make all kinds of signs or write things down, but she would not talk with her mouth. I want to tell you, I do not know if I could do that, because I talk continuously. As soon as the door closes, and I am alonem I am talking to the Lord, but I talk a lot. I do not know if I could be quiet for three days. I do not know if I could do it, but the point is, that they have this revelation that we have to silence our conscious mind, if we want to become spiritual people, if you want to hear the spiritual mind, or if you want to manifest the spiritual mind.
Well, about a year ago, I went to visit my family, and there was a negative thought that came up in my mind. It was very strong, something about the fireplace, it made no sense at all that I would be having a negative thought about the fireplace in my sister's house. When I sought the Lord about it on the way home He told me that I had been hearing my nephew's mind, and to be honest with you, I do not remember the circumstances, but at that time it made sense. He had made a couple of small negative remarks, but his disapproval of the fireplace was much greater than what he had said.
And I said, Well Lord -- I know that I am psychic with certain people. I hear the minds of certain people but not everybody that I am around. You have to basically have a tie, a soul tie or a spirit tie with the person, to hear their mind. I am not that close with my nephew, but the Lord told me that He had attached him to me for the purposes of a spiritual covering. That was why I heard his sin. It was a very negative remark. Maybe it was envy, I do not remember. The Lord had attached him to me for the purposes of Christ Jesus in me being his covering. Then, about a year later, which was just a couple of months ago, we had dinner. I do not see my nephew more than a couple of times a year. He is not my blood relationship.
We had dinner, and a question came up about the synagogue he goes to. He was trying to tell me how, basically, the rabbi is the employee, more or less, of the congregation, because if they do not give money, they would not have a job. And without thinking, I tell you, I am very careful not to be controversial with my family, because it is a very volatile situation. I have to really watch my P's and Q's there. Well, I did not stop to think -- well, before that, like 60 seconds before that, the thought came into my mind, Well, it is a year since I had that ministry for my nephew, because when I heard the evil thought, I had rebuked it and prayed for him. I forgave his sins and the whole thing. The thought came into my mind, it has been a year since then, and I have never ministered to him. Well, 60 seconds later, this whole conversation rose up. It was so fast, I did not even know where it came from.
Of course, it was a spirit of pride, that the rabbi has to preach what the people want him to preach or he would not have a job. Well, it just came out of my mouth, That is not right, and it was such a volatile conversation, I prayed three times, Lord Jesus, if this is not You, get me out of here, but it was the Lord. My nephew was very agitated. He jumped up from the table, and he is six foot something or other, I was sitting down, he was swinging his hands, and one of the things he said to me, I think it was just by way of example, but what he said to me was, Well, I do not like what you preach, so I will not give you any money. I just stayed cool, I was as calm as could be. His wife, who is my blood niece, was very nervous, she just put her head down, she was not having anything to do with it at all, but I was supernaturally calm. I answered all his questions, and somehow, by the grace of God, what he actually listened to me say was, Well, do you want to grow spiritually, or are you happy where you are? And that stopped him dead in his tracks, I got his attention.
I do not think Jews talk much about spiritual growth, you know, to the best of my knowledge. They live their religion, and I do not think they really think in those terms of spiritual growth, but Christ was in it. I got his attention, and then I said to him, If you want to grow spiritually -- I said, are you praying, asking God to tell you what synagogue to go to? He just looked at me; he was flabbergasted, Who prays to ask God what synagogue you should go to? They do not do that in Church, they do not do it in the Jewish religion either. Then Christ said to him, Well, if you want to grow spiritually you have to ask God what synagogue He wants you to go to, and if you go into a synagogue because God told you to go there so that you could grow spiritually, you are going to stay there no matter what that man is preaching. And he just looked at me.
Once again, like I said about my sister, he is a very strong-willed man, but reasonable. He just nodded his head. I had convinced him, you see. When we use the word "to convince" somebody, the Scripture says the Holy Spirit will convince you. I would have to look that up in the Interlinear Text, I do not believe the Holy Spirit does this. Christ is in this. To convince somebody does not mean to force them to change their mind by pitting your will against their will. That is witchcraft. When you pit your will against their will in a battle, for a contest as to who is right, that is witchcraft. Christ Jesus convinces you, so this strong-willed man, very strong-willed man, very intelligent, very educated, has a lot of knowledge on a variety of subjects, he was so agitated, he was standing on his feet and swinging his arms around, but Christ Jesus said to him something that convinced him that what was being said was true, and he sat down like a balloon deflating, and acknowledged that I was right. But it was not a power play, you see. It was not a power play.
Now, when you pit your will against somebody, and you get into a contest as to who is right, you are right, I am right, you are right, I am right? No, you get into a contest as to who is right, and it is a tug of war, the person who turns out to be wrong has to deal with feelings of humiliation and defeat, and even if the words you are saying, even if the principle or the point that you are talking about is really the truth, when you get someone to agree with you because you have beaten them into it, you have damaged them. So they might admit that your point is correct, but you damaged them, and you have damaged your relationship. Christ Jesus does not damage people. He does not damage their self0esteem, He does not damage their feelings. There is no pride in it, and there is no power play in it. It is strictly a contest of ideas, and the power of Christ will convince the reasonable man of the truth without him having to suffer any emotional loss.
I watched a large portion of Ken Starr's interview before the House of Representatives, and I am sorry to say that the Democrats tried in every way they could to bring this scholarly man into an emotional, personal debate with them, but they failed every time, because the situation is not a personal issue for him. He stayed in a high place of ideas. You know another way to say that? He stayed in the mental plane. He stayed in the mental plane. His emotions were not active. The astral plane in him was completely steady. He stayed in the world of ideas. One Representative, I cannot even say he questioned him. He was yelling at him, confusing him, and it was the most punitive attitude. Personally, I think it was a disgrace that a Member of the House of Representatives should speak to anyone that way, least of all a man who holds such a high office in the country.
Ken Starr, he would not look at his eyes, because it was Satan coming right out of the man's eyes. He just put his head down and he waited for it to pass. Ken Starr never once came down out of the mental plane, and I tell you, that you will never win a righteous argument when you are in the astral plane. When I say argument. I am talking about a debate of ideas. My definition of argument is not "fight." When two people have different ideas and both people can maintain their position in the mental plane, it is called an argument. That is a word that lawyers use. You go before a judge, and the judge will say to the lawyer, Make your argument. In other words, State your case. Everybody, state your case, and let everybody listen, and let everybody decide.
When you argue from the mental plane there is no damage, spiritual or emotional, to yourself or to the other party, but when you fight from the astral plane you are fighting with Satan's witchcraft power, and you are damaging your opponent, and you are damaging yourself, because you will reap what you sow. You are wielding witchcraft. Therefore, even if you win, and when I say win, even if your opponent agrees with you at the end of your warfare, you have won a very poor, pitiful victory, because the chances are high of that opponent coming back a week or two weeks or three weeks later with some anger towards you that you cannot relate to at all. You are saying, Where is this anger coming from? Well, maybe it is the battle that you won two years ago or three weeks ago or whatever that made a mark on that person's emotions, which, for whatever reason, is manifesting now. I am not saying it is right. I am saying that this is what life down here in Hell is about. That is what it is like down here in the asp's hole. The mental plane, which is in Christ Jesus, is a very safe place to be.
There is a mental plane in the world. If you do not know Christ, one of the highest places that you can be in this world, outside of Christ, is in the mental plane. What does that mean? One of the best lifestyles that you can have, one of the healthiest lifestyles you can have in this world, which is the asp's hole, this is Hell down here, is a lifestyle where your astral plane, where your emotions, are turned away from yourself and directed toward the sacrificial form of giving, whether it is towards your children, or towards your mate, or whatever, towards your ministry, whatever activity you do, and where you have ascended into the mental plane.
Now, some people do not ascend into the mental plane. Everybody is not born equally. Everybody is not intellectual. When I say, ascend into the mental plane, I give you an extreme example. Ken Starr, a large part of this man's life is in the study of the law. I hear he works 7 days a week. I am not telling you to work 7 days a week, I am telling you that a lot of his satisfaction in life comes out of the mental plane, and the astral plane, the emotional part of you, which is what gives most of us all of our trouble, needs to be sublimated, it needs to be turned away from selfishness and out towards another person. You will be among the groups of the happiest people in this world if you can do this. It is not healthy to abide wholly in your emotions. These people are the most unhappiest people in the world, in my opinion. If you are reading this message and you disagree that is allright.
Marriages where both parties are in their emotions, that is a stressed marriage, because both of those parties are looking towards each other to satisfy the other person, but marriages where people have this understanding, what understanding? The understanding that I am talking about right now, that two people can never ever completely satisfy each other, and they have to release their mate to satisfy themselves spiritually with God, and intellectually, if the person is intellectual, to let them pursue their intellectual pursuit, or their artistic pursuit, or to let them pursue close relationships with other family members. Marriages, where both parties acknowledge this, that they both have activities and relationships apart from each other, are the most stable marriages in the world. The marriages where the two parties expect the other one to be there totally for them and to totally satisfy them, these marriages are not strong, and sometimes they collapse because it is just wrong thinking. It is just wrong thinking.
Marriage is a lifestyle. You build a life together, you have a home, usually you have children, but there is more to life than that, and I am not putting down a home and children. Your spiritual life is important, your artistic life is important, and if you are intellectual, your intellectual life is important. To sacrifice your spiritual, artistic, and intellectual life, to sacrifice that because you are married is a big mistake. And it is happening a lot today, it happens a lot today. Lack of understanding is putting an inhuman burden upon marriage today. Any questions or comments?
COMMENT: When you spoke about a conversational experience, I remembered, going back 25 years ago, the Lord dealt with me in that manner when He was dealing with me about Mariolatry. I had received the Holy Spirit, and I still continued to pray the rosary, and I would continuously fall asleep on my knees. And this happened several times, and I asked the Lord what was happening. He began to tell me that everything that happened with Mary was for her own worship, the shrines to be built, the prayers to be said, and He revealed to me that it was not of Him. It was another god, and I was delivered from Mariolatry. It was a very painful experience that I actually felt in my physical being, but from that time forward I was able to receive truth.
PASTOR VITALE: With regard to quieting the mind, I mentioned Buddhism and Hinduism, I cannot tell you that there is one way to quiet your mind in Christianity, but the way that the Lord has given me in Christianity, to quiet my mind, is through a systematic, disciplined study of the Scripture. That is how He has quieted my mind, and to the best of my knowledge, that is what I would recommend to anybody, because the only other way to quiet your mind, that I know of, is to go into meditation, which, if you are not meditating on the Word, is dangerous, because you will contact the one who is really the maker of all the noise. But that is the way the Lord did it with me.
The length of time that I could concentrate increased little by little. At first, I could not concentrate for that long, but no matter what I was upset over, my astral plane, my emotions were always out of whack, as a young person. No matter what my problem was, His answer was the same thing: study. He would put me in the books, and now I can stay in these studies for hours, more than 12 hours I can stay in them. The only thing that stops me is that my brain gets tired. I fell asleep in my clothes last night, but it is discipline, and it is something that is developed in you. You start a little bit at a time, and then the next thing that you know, your carnal mind is quiet, and you are hearing from God. He talks to you in the midst of your spiritual activity. It does not have to be that for you. It could be music. It could be anything, just make sure God gives it to you. But the bottom line is, we must discipline our carnal mind. We cannot have our carnal mind ruling over us because she will cut off our communications with Christ. Praise the Lord.
