The Following Message Has Been Transcribed And Edited
For Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By
The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.
I know that is the issue of the hour. I know that it is something that you are very interested in because you know that God gave you a personal word about reconciliation. This, I would imagine, is a very important issue for you.
COMMENT: I have known the girl for many years. They believe, to some extent, that they are right.
PASTOR VITALE: From what I can see, what God is doing right now is that He is going to the other groups of churches that were and are in sonship but rejected reconciliation. That is also on the tape 136.
It is on that tape that there was something called the kingdom church that was basically headed up by XXX who, I think, was an apostle to his church in the day that kingdom church or kingdom camp spilt. Half of it went to reconciliation and the other half rejected reconciliation.
To the best of my knowledge, of course I could always be wrong, I do not know what every single ministry is doing, but they pretty much stayed where XXX was, and have not grown very much. XXX at the time of his death, to the best of my knowledge, still believed in hell, literal hell and damnation. He still believed that our physical bodies were going to die and be dug up out of the grave.
He was a great man of God because Christ moved through him.
I mentioned that last week. I want to ask everybody to start watching out for reverse pride. When Christ is being revealed through us, we are great. Jesus thought it not robbery to make Himself equal to God. Just make sure that it is Christ moving through you.
Do not take my words, as some people have done over the years, and use it to justify your yielding to your carnal mind, because you are the only one that is going to suffer from it. The truth is that when Christ is moving through us, we are great. If it is for one second, or for one moment, or for several years, that makes us great. It is not a sin.
COMMENT: We are humbled afterwards too, that He used us in that way.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, as long as we know that it is Him in us and not us, that makes us great. To the best of my understanding after the order of XXX, and it did not grow beyond him. The growth that came out of that move of God was reconciliation that brought the doctrine forth.
It is very common when God brings forth a new Word, it is not a new Word, but it is a new Word to us. Everything is eternal in the heavenlies. When God brings forth the next stage of revelation that He is calling into the modern day church, it frequently comes forth with little patches of error in it, because it is being brought forth through our carnal mind.
I want to remind you that Christ in us, whoever is teaching has to get past the carnal mind to get to you. This carnal mind is a bridge and a barrier. It is like a filter that the pure Word of God has to pass through.
Very frequently, as this Word of God passes through here, it picks up junk. It does not come through perfect. What happened with reconciliation, to the best of my knowledge, from the beginning when the doctrine came forth, it came forth with error. That error being that it is the whole spirit, soul, and body of every individual that is going to be reconciled, including Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind, and the demons.
It is true that the whole creation is being reconciled. I have this on the other tapes. It is one thing to hear a Word from God, the whole creation is being reconciled, then when we try to find out how it is being reconciled, that junk from our carnal mind gets all mixed in it.
This is where the error enters in. God will channel forth His truth, pure truth from up here in the realm of the Spirit. He will give us truth, truth, truth, silence, then right here comes somebody's carnal mind, and we cannot perceive that God stopped talking. They really cannot perceive that God has stopped talking or, because they are caught up in a spirit of pride, refused to believe that God has stopped talking.
None of this is in their conscious mind. I doubt if there are many people, if anybody, that is going to willfully pollute God's doctrine. This is the problem that we have here. We are not looking for wicked evil people that are trying to destroy the world. They are just simple everyday people that are usually being tripped up by pride. Simple everyday people with husbands, wives and children, and they love each other.
We have to stop looking at them with our carnal mind. We do not want to see them as evil, but we want to know that there is evil in them. Just as I said earlier, "If Christ is being revealed through you there is greatness in you for the moment that He is being revealed through you." You said to me not long ago, "The messenger and the message are one," that is true. At the moment that you are bringing forth the truth of Christ, you are Christ at that moment. You are great. Then the moment that someone's carnal mind is manifesting, they are the carnal mind, who is the revelation of Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind. Spiritual speaking, you are wicked.
Spiritually speaking, in relationship to Christ, you are wicked. What does that mean? Without your having to plot or do anything like that, thoughts automatically are going to come into your mind, and words are going to come out of your mouth that are going to oppose God's truth without even thinking about it.
We have carnal minded men in the church that are listening to the first stage of truth, the second stage of truth, the third stage of truth, the fourth stage of truth, and then they cannot perceive the silence. Then they say, "Well, if God said this, this, this, and this, well, He must mean this." God never said, " This." God said, "Yes, the all is going to be reconciled." God said, "Yes, there is a place for Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind, in the creation."
God said, "Yes, every human being is going to be returned to me." He did not say every body is going to be returned unto Him, every human body. He did not say every human soul is going to be returned unto Him. As a matter of fact, He said, "The human soul that sins, it will die."
I thought we were under the blood, and we were not sinning anymore? All these lies just build one on top of the other. "He who was born of God cannot sin." Well, you are not born of God. One lie just builds, and it builds, until we cannot tell the difference between the truth and the lie.
That is what is happening in the church today. This is happening in everybody's individual mind, in the church as a whole, in the whole country as a whole, and in the world as a whole. It is happening on every level.
If we cannot understand this and war against it, we are going to default to the carnal mind. The carnal mind will appear in us. I want to tell you that God has been teaching me this for years. I cannot tell you how many times a thought gets into my mind to do something, and I really think it is God. I will pray about it, I will pray it through, and I will sit on it. I will put out a fleece before the Lord, especially if it is suspicious to me.
For example, the thought in my mind to go to a recent funeral, I do not go to funerals. I do not believe in it, especially a funeral in a Catholic church. I heard the Word of the Lord, I know that my God breaks His own laws. I know that He breaks patterns that He has established in my life. I said, "Well, it is possible, God is sending me to the funeral." I went in, I took a shower, I washed my hair, I had two thoughts in my mind. I want to tell you that I am very aware of thoughts in my mind, aware more than most people. I have been working on this for years.
There were two thoughts in my mind. One was saying, "Go," and the other was saying, "What are you talking about? You do not go to funerals?" The thought that was saying, "Go" was so strong that I was questioning it. I prayed and I prayed. I put a fleece before the Lord, and I decided not to go. I want to tell you something that a couple of days later I found out that the thought that was in my mind as to why I should go was that somebody came to me and said, "I thought you would go because dadah, dadah, dadah...." It was the exact thought that was in my mind.
I want to tell you that their thought penetrated my mind. They did not know it, they did not pray any physic pray, they did not light any candles, they did not do any voodoo. Somehow their thought got into my mind. There is no blame here. This is the condition that we are in here. Their thought went into my mind. Do you hear what I am telling you? This is incredible.
There was a period where I was going around saying, "Lord, who am I? If this person's thought is in my mind, and that person's thought is in my mind, who am I?" He said to me, "You are Christ."
That is what He said to me, that is the only answer I could get out of Him. At this point it does not matter whose junk it is that is in your mind. It does not matter if the junk is coming out of my mind or if the junk is coming out of Joe Blow's mind, it is in my mind, and it is trying to beat me. Who is me? I am Christ. It is trying to get me to agree with the junk.
It does not matter if my carnal mind conjured up the junk, or your canal mind conjured up the junk. It does not matter. The junk of the carnal mind has been spoken and heard in my mind, and I am Christ.
It is the same warfare for me whether it is my own carnal mind that generates the thought, or it was your carnal mind that generated the thought. The warfare for me is the same. Can you understand that? The warfare for us is the same, because we are all connected. As we enter into Christ and Christ is formed in us, you will start somewhere along the line to perceive an awareness of your oneness with the living soul that died. It is like that old saying, "You cannot see the forest for the trees." You have to step back from the forest to see the trees, or you have to step back from the tree to see that it is a forest? How does it go?
When you are in the midst of the forest, you do not realize how big it is, you do not realize that it is a forest, but you just see the trees. When you step back out of the forest, when you separate yourself from it, you can see it as you move more and more in Christ. I know because I have experienced this, we will start getting a vision of the oneness of the living soul that died.
When we were in old order deliverance we used to call it transference of spirits. The teaching was that you can catch somebody's spirit. Do not touch somebody's hand because their spirit can jump from them to you. Do not stand around when someone is getting deliverance, because the spirit will jump on you.
There is a truth in it, there is a way that spirit transfers from one person to another. There is a way that an idea will transfer from one person to another, but that is not how it happens. We where just talking about that. It is true. You can wind up with a demon that someone else had. The way you think it happens to you is not the way it happens to you. You must have a potential to receive a demon in your soul. The demon comes from within you. It is not that which is outside of you that can pollute you, but that which is within.
Physical filth or spiritual filth that is outside of you, cannot pollute you. Even if it were possible, I do not think it was possible for a demon to be cast out of somebody, and that demon to enter into me. I believe that the Scripture says it is not possible, they could not even enter into the pigs. Even if it were possible, I want to make it clear to you, that if I did not have the potential to sustain and give life to, and permit that demon to take root in my soul, if that wickedness was not in my own heart, if their was nothing for him to latch on to, he would pass out through the draft.
Jesus told us that it is not that which comes from the outside. Now, people have a problem, believers in the church have a problem. Brethren, we have to confess who we are. We are fallen, there is wickedness in our heart, but there is no condemnation, because in this hour we have a new name. His name is Christ. Let us start living out of Him and start calling sin, in our own heart, sin.
The people that are preaching ultimate reconciliation today, they are doing what a lot of carnally minded men do. They see a spiritual truth, and they see it backwards. They see it from the realm of the soul, it is backwards.
This is what they are saying. They recognize that we have a lower nature, they recognize that. They recognize that we have Christ. What they are saying is, "Brethren, ignore your lower nature. Ignore it, leave it alone, live out of Christ and cause Christ to be developed in you, cause Christ to increase in you, cause Christ to live through you." That is what they are saying.
I declare to you that we have no power at all. Fallen adam and any member thereof, which is all of us, has no strength whatsoever to cause Christ to grow. Does the Scripture not say, "One plants, one waters, but only God can give the increase."
What we do have the strength to do is to wage war against our lower nature, crush it and, eventually Lord willing, kill it. This can be likened to a gardener. He plants the seed, he plows the ground, he rips up the weeds, he rips up the stones, drops the seed in it, and then he waters it. Only God can give the increase.
Everybody here plants, we are all suburbans, everybody has had a garden one time or another. Did you ever plant a seed that did not sprout? Of course, and did you not do everything for that seed as the seed grew out into a gorgeous tomato plant? Only God can give the increase.
The message in ultimate reconciliation is exposed as coming from the carnal minds of men. Why? How do I know this? Because it is coming forth in reverse. It is coming forth as a mirror image. It is coming forth out of the soul realm. They are telling you to do what we have no strength to do. It is the exact opposite of what we do have strength to do.
Because Christ is coming forth as a seed, it is our job to plow the ground, dig up our own soul, and pull out the weeds and rocks. That is deliverance. We are given strength to do something, but what ultimate reconciliation is teaching is to labor at something we will never accomplish.
The Scripture clearly states we do not have the strength to give the increase. Because it directs all of our attention to work on bringing forth an increase that we have no strength to bring forth, it takes our mind off of what we do have the strength to do. They are telling us to leave our lower nature alone, when our lower nature has to be dealt with. They are telling us to make Christ grow, when we do not have strength to make Him grow. Hallelujah.
I bless everyone that preaches ultimate reconciliation. I am not against any man, but I am against error, because the error is killing us. A seed that is dropped into ground that is not plowed, weeded, and stoned, has a much smaller chance of growing than a seed that is dropped into a ground that is plowed, weeded, fertilized, and watered. That is just the truth. We know that in our world system.
The people that are preaching this put all your emphasis on Christ and just ignore your lower nature. They are deceived themselves. We pray for them, we pray for God's truth to come forth in the earth. I want you to know, I do not like preaching this message because the sophisticated person is supposed to say, "Well, if I do not believe what they are preaching, I will just put it on the shelf until God deals with me." I want to tell you that I have never... again it is possible, I have never personally, well that is not true. Let me put it this way. There are two ways that you could preach against a doctrine.
There is a doctrine in the church, and you can preach against it from underneath it. That means that you are less mature. That is like all the Pentecostal churches that came against deliverance. I had one woman coming to me trying desperately to get me out of deliverance. I said to her, "If all the things are wrong with it as you say are wrong with it, could you explain to me why it is helping me?" That is to be avoided at all costs.
To preach against a doctrine that you do not have an answer for, this is the acid test. If you are preaching against a doctrine, and you want to know whether you are coming from a position of being underneath it, it does not mean that this is in any way demeaning to anybody, but there are some people that have more knowledge then others. There are some people that are more mature in Christ than others. If you are coming against a doctrine from a condition of a lesser maturity, it will be revealed in that you will not have an alternative answer to what you are preaching against.
You will be saying, "Do not do it." They will say to you, "Well, what should I do?" You will say, "Have more faith." Do you hear what I am saying? You are telling somebody not to do something, but you do not have any alternative relief for them. That is the acid test that I would go by if you ever find yourself in this condition.
If you do not have an alternate relief, if you cannot help these people, you better really get before God, and ask Him if it is really Him asking you to preach this doctrine, because there is a real good chance it is not God.
If you are preaching against a doctrine from a greater maturity, the acid test is that you will have an alternate solution to their problem. If you preach against the rapture because you have a revelation of power and authority to the believer, there is a real good chance that it is Christ that is telling you to preach against the rapture.
Why? Because you have another solution to their problem. What is their problem? We are here in the earth, we have done everything we know to do. We have confessed our sins, we have repented, we have been baptized in water, we have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. We are going out hitting people over the head with Bibles for the last five years, and we are still fallen. We still fight with our husbands, we are still sick, our children are still having problems, well there must be a rapture that is going to snatch us away from here and end all of our problems.
The answer has to be that there is deliverance on the other side of the veil. What else could it be? Well, there is another answer for you, brethren. It is power and authority to the believer through the formation of Christ in your mind, to the fullness of the stature of the Lord Jesus Christ. Sounds fine to me.
I do not know anybody, of course they maybe out there, I have not met them yet. I have not seen any tapes or read any article of anybody preaching against ultimate reconciliation from a position of greater maturity. This is the only place that I know that it is coming out of.
I believe in the near future that we are going to be sending out these tapes to a lot of ministers. Do you know what I am talking about? This is very important, because your carnal mind, it attacks. My carnal mind is attacking me from the first time. This is the third message I am preaching about ultimate reconciliation.
I have been severely attacked, "Who do you think you are, coming against other people? In all the years you have been preaching you have never come against anybody. I mean I make my little comments here and there, but I have not come against a doctrine, a whole category, a whole church of preachers. What? Are you lifted up in pride or something?"
No, brethren, this is God's correction to a very beloved element of His church. Up until this point, we have had the sonship church preaching against ultimate reconciliation from a position of lesser maturity. They have been saying to them, "I know this message is wrong, it cannot be, but I have not another alternative for you, except that those who do not come to the Lord are going to be damned and burn in Hell forever."
The people that are in ultimate reconciliation, they know that, that is not true. They got a revelation about the truth of Hell. They know what Hell is, they know where Hell is. They know that, that cannot be an answer to their problem. You see the guy that believes in the rapture, he has power and authority to the believer and full stature in Christ Jesus. Well, if they are any kind of reasonable person they will say, "Well, that sounds like it may be, it could be, let me pray about it."
In ultimate reconciliation, Hell and damnation, they know that, that is not true. The people in sonship have no strength to help the people in ultimate reconciliation. Why? Number one, they have not laid hold of the truth of the error. I want to tell you something, before you can expose an error in anything, if you are a seamstress, before you can even recognize an error in the construction of the garment, you have to be a seamstress. Do you not?
Before you can perceive an error in a doctrine, you have to have a intimate knowledge of the doctrine. That is just the truth of the way our mind works and the way the world works. In this hour, God has started a new thing. It is a new move of God. It is coming out of a group of people that have believed in ultimate reconciliation. God has expanded their mind, given them a deeper understanding. Saying, "One is true, two is true, three is true, four is true, but the rest of it came out of your carnal mind. Let it go."
It is not pride, it is not a haughty spirit, it is not an arrogant spirit, I am not punishing anybody. I do not pray against anybody. My only prayer is that the Lord bless everyone, and His truth be revealed to the multitudes. I am not trying to shut people down, I am not threatening them. I am not doing anything like that at all. God does not do that, God does not threaten. God speaks His truth. Even when God pours out judgment, He does not threaten, He just pours out the judgment.
Do you know that to threaten is a spirit? Two people can say the same words. Two people can say, "If you do not repent, and make a correction in your life, judgment is about to fall on you." Do you know that can be said in a spirit of righteousness? It is not a threat, it is not a curse. If it is the truth of God, if it is coming forth from Christ, it cannot be anything but that.
Another person can speak the same words, and say, "You know, if you do not get your act together, and if you do not turn your life around, something terrible is going to happen to you." That is a curse. Why? Because the first was the truth of Christ coming out of the mind of Christ. The second was coming from someone's carnal mind, because either they were hurt by that person's behavior, or they were trying to stop that person's behavior and they failed. They were using a threat to try to control them. It is the spirit behind the word.
I want to recommend it to you, because we had a similar incident in this ministry, if you can see the similarity. I ask you to pray about it if you cannot. XXX got up there, he said in so many words, "We are beyond the issue of the court decision. Lawlessness must be put down." When there is a problem, and it turns into a riot, the issue of the problem is no longer the issue. The issue is the lawlessness.
That is God's way, that is the way of righteousness, it is the way of Godly authority. Lawlessness must be stopped. Then XXX went on to say that the court process had not yet come to an end. There was no reason for this. There were several other court cases going. There is a federal case going, there is an appeals going. This is outright lawlessness. He said it must be stopped, and it will be stopped.
That was what I said to the riot we had here. I said that there will not be lawlessness in these meetings. Pray about it. If you do not agree with it, pray about it, think about it. I am giving you the wisdom of God.
There is a spirit of rebellion that is over this entire country. We have just begun to see the results of it. Every authority is being torn down. Every authority is God ordained, that is what the Scripture says. Every authority is God ordained. Every law that can be broken, every social moray that can be broken is being torn down. Every authority is being torn down.
What they are really doing here is they are tearing down the authority of the police. We need the police. They are not perfect, they make mistakes, but we need police. The whole country is in a spasm of rebellion on every level. If we cannot have order in God's church, how are we to have it in the world or in the country?
There must be order, every thing must be done in an orderly process. When you speak like this under the anointing, even if there is someone that is not here that needs to hear it, God has the strength to put it in their mind. Did you know that?
COMMENT: Yes, when they hear the tape.
PASTOR VITALE: It could be when they hear the tape, or it does not have to be when they hear the tape. It is a manifestation of.... it is spoken into the realm of the spirit. If it is the will of the Lord, He carries it to the person's heart and they hear it. I have been into this for years. I have been experiencing this for years.
There was one woman, she had a really wrong evaluation of a problem she had. It was a pretty serious problem. She had one wrong understanding of her problem. When you have a wrong understanding of your problem, you have a wrong answer to the problem, and you have a wrong solution to the problem.
I just started praying that the Lord solve her problem. However I prayed, I know the prayer was Godly. The answer to her problem started coming out of my mouth. I was praying for her, I spoke it into the Heavenlies. It happened several times. Eventually, she came into the meeting one day and announced the solution to her problem. It was every word that came out of my mouth. She realized that she evaluated it wrong, and that this was the way it was going to be.
Now, it has to be Christ. Make sure that it is Christ. If it is not Christ, you are into witchcraft. You have to check yourself, but spiritual is spiritual. When you are moving in any kind of spiritual authority, and you speak under that authority it gets to their mind. The thought gets to their mind. I never said a word to this woman. I knew that she had a lot of pride, and she would never receive it from me. I never said a word to her.
COMMENT: How did she know that, that was you?
PASTOR VITALE: She did not know it was me. She just came into the meeting, she had been asking for prayer. We had prayed as a group several times. I think that she suspected that I did not agree with her because I could not really pray for what she had asked me to pray. I asked God to bless her, I prayed for His will in her life, and I prayed for His solution to her problem. I am pretty sure she knew.
It had to do with money. It was about six thousand dollars, and she did not think she had to pay it. She was being sued for six thousand dollars. She was being threatened with a lawsuit for six thousand dollars. She did not think she owed them money, and she owed them money. When she came in and told us about it. She said, "Well, I understand I rightfully owe them money, and the Lord told me He would help me to pay it."
She thought even at that point the Lord was going to dump six thousand dollars in to her lap. I knew that He was not going to dump it in her lap. The next time I talked to her I asked her, "How are you?" She said, "I am so busy, I have so much work, I do not know what to do."
He sent her work, He sent her work. You want money, go to work. You do not have enough, get another job. Now, sometimes He dumps money in your lap, but that is God's discretion. God will make a judgment as to whether or not He wants to give you this money without you working hour for hour. He will do that. He will judge your heart. Her heart was wrong in this instance. Her thinking was wrong, and that is how she incurred this debit.
Of course, He is going to help you out, He is your Father, He loves you. Go to work. He is going to help you, He will give you the job. Glory to God.
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