The Following Message Has Been Transcribed And Edited For
Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By
The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.
There is power in the Spirit, says the Lord. Fear not the arrows of the enemy, saith God. For indeed by my Spirit there is great strength to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. Fear not, saith the Lord, for indeed I am with thee in great power and thou shall not be overcome, saith the Lord, so long as thou keep turned towards me. For I discern the intents of thy heart on a minute to minute basis, saith God. And when you are not ashamed of me, saith the Lord, I shall not be ashamed of you. But if you fight in the earth, saith God, I shall surely defend you in the heavenlies and there is no defeat in my Spirit, saith God. Turn to me with every problem, saith the Lord, and there is nothing that I shall withhold from thee. Strive not in your own strength, saith the Lord, for indeed your strength is death. I am with thee, saith the Lord, and I shall sustain thee and I shall be thy driving and thy first motivation, saith the Lord. And all things shall be possible unto you, saith God, and nothing shall I withhold from thee. Look up, for indeed the hour of thy redemption draweth nigh, saith the Lord. Yea it is even at the door. And my people, they run to and fro, saith God, led by their carnal minds, in bitterness of heart, saith the Lord, and they know not what they do, where they go, or what they say. But my plan shall prosper, saith the Lord, for indeed I am God and I am the author of your salvation. I am the foundation, saith the Lord, upon which my house is being built and I have laid it and none shall take it down. And I shall finish the temple, saith the Lord, that my Father should have a house to live in, saith God, yea, a house with many mansions, saith the Lord, for my Father to inhabit. And I shall bring my wife into submission, saith the Lord, for indeed in this hour she is a harlot. Even those that call themselves by my name, saith God, worship other gods. But I have started the work and I shall finish the work. And I say unto you, the only way that thou shall survive, is to turn to me for everything, for I am thy Lord and thy God, and thy soon coming King, and life is only in my Spirit. Reject the flesh, saith the Lord; crucify it, slay it, put it under your feet, for it shall surely cause your death. But because you have loved me, saith God, I speak unto you this evening, and I say, fear not, for I will meet thee. And where thou art weak, I shall lend you my strength, saith God, and I shall bring you through. But stone not my prophet, saith the Lord. Stone not my prophet, for surely I will not look kindly upon this. And if you have, I require you to repent. Look up, for even the hour is at hand, saith God. It is closer than you can even imagine. My first fruits company shall appear on the earth, saith the Lord, and they shall be rejected of the scribes and the Pharisees. And they shall be crucified, and I shall raise them from the dead. And my government shall be firmly established in the earth of this world system, and nothing shall shake it, and nothing shall bring it down. But it shall grow and it shall increase and it shall swallow up the natural man, saith God, both his mind and the world system that he projects. And I shall defeat every enemy, saith the Lord, even the last enemy which is death. And thereafter I shall offer up the entire creation unto my father, saith the Lord, and the whole creation shall become spirit.
We just break the power that is coming against these meetings and this ministry and me personally, from anywhere and any place and any mouth and any mind. We cast you down, and we break your curses. We rebuke your spirits of division. We rebuke your marriage breaking spirits. We rebuke your destruction and we rebuke your death. Since you are wilfully and knowledgeably doing what you are doing, the Lord has said to send the curses back. We send them back to wherever they are coming from. May you feel the wrath of your own mind and may the Lord Jesus Christ be glorified in whatever that manifestation will be. Thank you Jesus.
PASTOR VITALE: It is a miracle that we are here tonight. Great power is coming against these meetings, so it is a miracle that we are here. God is great and He is powerful enough to do anything that He wants to do, but He wants to see us willing to wage the battle. He can do it, He does not need us. However, He wants to see that effort on our part.
It looks like our meeting places are not too stable these days. Ideally we should have a set place where we are going to meet so that anybody that wants to come knows that we are there. But if this is the way it is going to be there is nothing that we can do about it.
I remind you that the more spiritual the ministry is, the more likely it is that our carnal trappings, such as the place we meet, or whatever is carnal about our gathering, would be less established in this world system. The more spiritual the ministry is, the less likely we are to have a big building with three or four hundred people. I do not know why, but that is the way it works. The closer we are to the current move of God…. Let me just establish that. God is moving all over the earth in many different areas and many different realms, but there is a place in Christ (I will call it the spearhead), which is the latest thing that He is doing. It is the move of the hour. He is still baptising in the Holy Spirit. He is still water baptising. He has got preachers all over the world teaching about the Holy Spirit and He is blessing it. It is Him. However, God has many grades of study. We are in school learning to be a spiritual man, and God has many grades of study. To be in this spearhead, to be in the latest move of God for the moment you, are out on a spiritual battle field, and usually the physical benefits of that ministry are very unstable. What we see in this ministry is normal for where we are in Christ, for where this ministry is in Christ. Therefore I ask you to make a little extra effort if you want to come to the meetings. Make a phone call to find out where we are going to be meeting. As long as the Lord wants us to meet, we will meet.
As of now, I understand that on Sunday night the meeting is at XXXXX. You might want to call XXXX around 6 o’clock just to make sure. Praise the Lord. We will just roll with the punches. XXXX tells me that her house is always available. Praise the Lord, there will always be a place but it will not be without a battle. Just try to keep this in mind, for those of you who have not experienced it before. If you want to come to these meetings you are going to be in a spiritual warfare. I have been in it for so many years that sometimes I do not realise that other people do not realise what this warfare is, or what the manifestation of this warfare could be. I want to speak to you about it just for a few minutes. Somebody was telling me recently that the bobbin kept breaking on their sewing machine and the water was overflowing, this is all spiritual warfare. You can call it many names. You can call it retaliation. You can say they are a result of psychic prayers. The name really is not important.The fact is that if you are going to be in the spearhead move of God, you are going to have the carnal mind coming against you from whatever vessels will yield to its ungodly thoughts.
These psychic prayers manifest in your life on a minor level as harassments. If they are strong enough, or if we are weak enough (whatever the correct combination is), they can keep you away from a meeting if you really wanted to come. They can make trouble in your life. There is no point in being afraid; you just have to stand against it. The truth is going to set you free. When I heard about this bobbin with the sewing machine, I was laughing, because at the time I spoke to this person, I was working on my computer on the tape list, and the tab key would not work. I went to another document, the tab key worked. The computer will not let me work on the tape list. I am harassed continuously with the mechanical equipment in the office. We have to rebuke witchcraft. Just be aware. If you are having trouble getting here, ask yourself whether or not you really want to come. Ask yourself whether or not God really wants you to come. If the answer is yes, bear in mind that this could be another mind influencing you not to come.
It could be your own fallen adamic mind or carnal mind, or it could be somebody else’s mind. We are engaged in the battle of the ages. It is known as Armageddon, and despite everything that has been preached on the radio and the television, I declare to you that Armageddon is the battle between the mind of Christ and the fallen adamic/carnal mind of the natural man, whoever he is manifesting through. I should call her she, the fallen adamic /carnal mind is female in relationship to Christ. She will manifest in whoever will yield to her, and since none of us is in full stature she will manifest in us sometimes. The question is, what do you do with the thought? If you are you mad at somebody, what do you do with the thought? Do you give it to God? Do you act as if it is justified? Do you ask him to help you with it? Or do you yield to it and run with it? This is the battle of Armageddon, this is what it is. There is no reason to be mad at anybody. If you know who is praying the psychic prayers, praise the Lord. The offence must come, but woe unto him by whom the offence comes. Have mercy on your oppressor. I have been praying for years….
I was no angel when I was in the world, and I think that I hurt a lot of people. I was ignorant. I did not know what I was doing, but I hurt a lot of people, and right now my prayer is that if I had any choice at all, I will rather be persecuted than to be the vessel of dishonour that is coming against someone that is moving in Christ. That is my prayer and God has answered it. I am persecuted a lot, but that is my choice. He may not give you a choice. He may bring you to this place without your agreeing to it. Nobody loves to be persecuted and no one wants to be tormented in their soul, but I will tell you that it gets easier.
If God has brought you into this ministry and you are experiencing torment in your soul because you are spiritually sensitive (or for whatever reason), you are developing in Christ already. No one loves the torment in their soul but the victory is very sweet. Do not do what the carnal mind tells you to do, resist. He will surely punish you, but resist, because it is glorious when Jesus gives you the victory. I am telling you, we are really close to that first fruit company manifesting. There is no doubt in my mind that it is going to be in our life time. I do not want to prophesy, but I think it is real soon, like it could be this coming year, but that is not a prophecy. It definitely is going to be in our life time. I am told that XXXX had a dream about a beautiful butterfly landing on her chest, is that right XXXX?
COMMENT: On my neck.
PASTOR VITALE: On her neck. The Scripture likens our spiritual development or that which we are evolving into…. there is an evolution but it is not from monkey to man. It is from natural man to spiritual man. There is a true evolution, and what we shall become is typified by the butterfly. Right now, those of us that have been studying for a while know that the Lord sees us as ugly red worms (we go into this in the #31 series, which those of you that are new with us will get to eventually). That is what we are, worms, and we are about to develop or to evolve into butterflies, spiritual men. We are going to be butterflies. That was Christ that was on your neck and he was born in you and he was beautiful. He was by your neck, right? I use to read the Songs of Solomon and he talks about his beloved’s neck, that it was a strong…. I cannot remember the exact word that he uses, but he describes the neck in a military sense.
COMMENT: A tower?
Songs of Solomon 4:4
Thy neck is like the tower of David builded for an armoury, whereon there hang a thousand bucklers, all shields of mighty men. KJV
PASTOR VITALE: A tower, yes, and I use to say for years, Lord what are you talking about? Now he has given me the understanding, after all this many years, that the neck is what connects the head to the body, and if that connection is not strong, we shall surely lose our head. The fallen adamic man does not want us to have this head but the Lord is going to join himself to us in such strength that nothing will break our neck. In the natural the neck is a very vulnerable part of the body. For those who are trained in the martial arts, if you want to kill somebody, the first place you go for with your bare hand is the neck. You just twist the head and that is it. We know that the natural is the physical example of the spiritual realm but our head is going to be joined to us and there is going to be armies in that joining, and that joining shall be permanent. No spiritual force existing shall be able to break our spiritual neck.
Do you realise that fallen adam is trying to break your neck? If you have developed a relationship with Christ at all, if you obey him at all (I am not talking about having the Holy Spirit), if you are in any way obeying his mind, you now have a neck. Your neck is a connection to Christ. You are a two headed man. That neck is going to be so strong that nothing shall break it, but He wants us to walk with Him. It is a miracle that we are here tonight. I thank God for it.
I will tell you about a dream that I had in which I saw my right hand, and it was really emphasised. There was a disc; it was like a growth on my right hand. It was pushing up from underneath the skin. It was really high. My hand in the dream, I could just see my hand, it took up my whole vision, and the Lord told me that it was the mark of God. We know the mark of the beast is going to be on our forehead and on our right hand, and the whole world already has the mark of the beast. We see a whole Church world worrying about the mark of the beast, with all these fantasies and anti-christ armies, and they already have the mark of the beast. It is the fallen adamic mind that is your forehead, and the mark on your hand is your fallen adamic behaviour, the behaviour that obeys your fallen adamic mind. The whole world has the mark already. However, a miracle is about to appear. Despite the military strength of the fallen adamic soul (which we established on tape 8, if you recall), Jesus Christ, the Spirit of Christ, is about to reproduce Himself in a small group of people, which is just the beginning. He is going to take away the mark of the beast and He is going to give us His mark. The mark on my hand was a circle which is a symbol for the world without end, the life of the ages that will not end. The mark of God is about to appear in humanity, and we shall live for the life of the ages. It is very exciting.
God does not do anything unless he tells his prophets first, and XXXX had her dream the same morning that I had mine. Maybe it is a year away, I hope not. Even if it is two years away, there is not a doubt in my mind we are going to see it, and we going to experience it. Therefore, stay very close to God, and pray about everything. If you feel distress in your soul do not let it stop you from pursuing God. Fallen adam wants you to be so distressed that you will do anything to make the stress go away, even listen to him. We have to be willing to live with the distress. We can petition the Lord, however. If He takes it away, if He gives us deliverance, praise God, but sometimes He does not always give that deliverance right away. Here is the test. Are you going to try to help yourself in your own strength, or you are going to hang in there and wait for the deliverance of God? This is where we are. It is the battle of the ages and it is in your mind. We are living in a time that history is being made. History is being made in the realm of the spirit and it is being made right here in this country.
It is a miracle that Clarence Thomas was confirmed to the Supreme Court of the United States. There is no doubt in my mind that he would have never gotten in if God did not want him in. He was just confirmed (on October 15, 1991) to the Supreme Court of the United States. The significance of that is that approximately 40 or 50 years ago (I may have my timing off), ungodly people seeking to destroy this country, secretly started to undermine it from within the Government. The average person is out there working and taking care of their family. They are trying to survive their own problems. This group of super liberal intellectuals that want to bring this country down infiltrated our government and packed the Supreme Court with liberal judges who passed ungodly legislation. They did not pass legislation, the Supreme Court does not pass legislation, but it interprets the law. Among its unfortunate decisions was Roe versus Wade which made abortion legal. It made the murder of infants legal. Another of its decisions made Satanism and the practice of witchcraft legal, calling it a religion and demanding that the country respect it and give it all the benefits and protection of religion.
COMMENT: What was the......
PASTOR VITALE: I am going to ask you all to do me a favour. Please try to discipline yourself to pick up this microphone. The tape from last week had lots of spaces where you could not hear the questions or comments.
COMMENT: What was the exact date that Satanism was made legal?
PASTOR VITALE: I do not know, but all of this started to take place around 50 years ago, approximately 50 years ago. It started around 50 years ago when they packed the Supreme Court with these liberal judges. What is happening in this hour (it has been going on for maybe 10 or 15 years, I am not too good with my dates) is that the law…. The country is in an outrage because the people did not realise was happening until it was all over, until it was done. The average working people that are trying to survive did not even know what was going on, until it was too late. Now, there is not a doubt in my mind that in response to the prayers of God’s people, He is turning this court around. These men sit on this court for their lifetime, but there has been a series of them that have retired and they have been replaced with what we call conservative judges who are against these types of decisions.
Clarence Thomas was proposed by the President of the United States, President George H.W. Bush. The court is conservative now but before Clarence Thomas was appointed the whole country knew that if he was appointed the whole balance of the court was turned around, for at least the next 40 years. These liberal forces in the country know that there is an excellent chance Roe versus Wade which is the bill that makes abortion legal is about to be reversed. We have every reason to hope that the problems that we are having in the schools, and making homosexuality a matter of equal rights, and not praying in the schools (I think those are the main issues), are about to be overturned.
COMMENT: And Satanism too?
PASTOR VITALE: I would hope so. I would hope so, but I think the first issue that is going to come before the court is the issue of prayers in school. That is going to be restored, and the issue of abortion is going to be revoked.
COMMENT: How many men are in the Supreme Court? How can one man overturn it like that?
PASTOR VITALE: I am going to show my ignorance, I think there are 12 men. Does anybody know how many judges it is? Well, it is a small number of judges and they interpret the laws of the land, and you have to have a majority vote. For example, if they vote upon abortion, if there were 12 judges, there will have to be 7 against 5 to say abortion is no good and turn it over. For all of these years maybe 10 out of the 12 were voting for abortion and when they retired they have been replaced by judges with different views. Now it is going to be 7 against 5 against abortion and that is the way the country works.
(Editor’s note: There are 9 judges on the Supreme Court)
This was a battle. There were spiritual forces working, and there were natural forces working. I am going to declare to you that anybody that says that, that battle that was on television for 3 days, was simply a woman declaring sexual harassment, that there were no other forces trying to destroy this man, is not being honest. You have to be a very naive person to believe that. Did you watch it? It was a disgrace. It was a disgrace before God.
COMMENT: I read that she goes to the Oral Roberts University.
PASTOR VITALE: I heard that she was offered a job there.
COMMENT: Oh I see, I thought she was a student.
PASTOR VITALE: No, no, she is a professor of law in Oklahoma.
COMMENT: I watched a program last night and it was a debate on the full senate confirmation hearing. They had a man from News Day there, and they all talked about how the leak came out. The lawyer for the woman was on, she was almost crying. She said it was so unfair. She said that that woman goes around with her bible and pocket book all the time and it was like she was not really heard, that they really put her down. Only God knows what is going to happen in the future.
PASTOR VITALE: I think that she was used. I think that this was such a powerful force of liberal spiritual power, trying to do anything to keep this man from being confirmed to the Supreme Court. I think she was used, however they did it. To what degree what she said was true, I do not know, but I think the true forces behind what happened (nobody knows who they are, at least I do not think the public is going to know who they are) used her. I think that she was victimised as much as everybody else. I heard so much, and what really saddened me was that are so many women in the country that have decided to believe her charges against him, simply because of what they call women’s rights and what they call women’s rights is the right to abortion. They want the right to abortion. They want the right to have sex outside of marriage if they want it, and to abort their foetus inside or outside of marriage. Why? This is because they have become spiritual males. We have been talking about this a lot lately.
It is really a spirit of homosexuality that is manifesting in a way that if you do not have spiritual eyes you do not recognise it as homosexuality, but it is. It is a female who has become a spiritual male; in her personality and in her emotions she has become a male. They are usually well educated and they are usually professional people. They still want to engage in sexual intercourse with a man, and when the natural result of that activity happens to them, their decision is to kill the baby. It is a very perverse thing that they are fighting for, and what saddened me the most was that there are so many women that see Judge Thomas as against women. It is really sad.
Everybody has viewed what has happened in accordance with their own needs. There are very few out there that have said, Let me judge righteous judgement. What is truth and what is righteousness? The women are fighting for their rights and the liberals are fighting for their rights and the Republicans are fighting for what they want. Is there anybody doing righteousness out there?
Did you want to say something?
COMMENT: I just want to say that it could be the married woman who does not want to conceive a child. The married woman might not want it as well.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes. Did you mean professional women or women that just do not want another child?
COMMENT: It could be either one.
PASTOR VITALE: That is true, but the political force that is operating here are the professional women. They are the political force. We have always had women that have had two, three, four, five children and they get pregnant and they do not want the last, because they think they cannot bear it, or they think they cannot afford it, or whatever. Of course the answer to this is God. The answer is to turn to God. The political forces that are making this a legal thing are these spiritual women that have become spiritual men. They are just a part of the spirit that is over the whole country that will eventually destroy it. It is a spirit of homosexuality and role reversal. We are just out of God’s order. It does not make someone against the women to say you are out of God’s order. You really have to decide what you want to do in this world.
I will put it on this tape, because God has been talking to me about it for a few weeks now. You can go to college and you can have a profession and you can do all those things but your problem areas are in your marriage. You have to know that no matter how educated you are, or how accomplished you are, whether you are a lawyer or a law professor or whatever you are, that you cannot challenge your husband. You cannot challenge your husband. He is the boss, even if he is a garbage collector. I do not mean to put down garbage collectors, please understand me. I just try to make points to people. Any honest work, God will honour. We have women who are saying because they are the educated one, and the man is not, therefore they will make the decisions in the family. That is not godly. The second problem for women that will chose to become spiritual male is having children. You have to decide whether or not you are willing to have children, and you should know (I am not against birth control) that if you get pregnant, God has given you a baby. If you kill that baby because you are in the middle of law school or because you do not want to give up your career or because you are not married to the man, you are just out of God’s will. You are just totally out of God’s will. That is the size of it. The country is turned upside down. The relationships are turned upside down.
There are a lot of people against Judge Thomas that say he is against women. I personally hope that he did not do those things, but I cannot say that someone who is against abortion is against women. I am against abortion and I am not against women. I am a realist and to the best of my ability I am judging righteous judgement. I am telling you, if you want to be a spiritual male, if you want to be lawyer, if you want to be a female on the Supreme Court, go for it. When it comes to your family roles, you have to be in order with God. The fact that you are educated or the fact that you have achieved such a position in your employment does not give you the authority to reverse God’s role for you in marriage. I think hat is the clearest I have put it so far. There was one woman on television. She was some leader. I do not know what organisation she came from. She said the country has got to understand that this is not a question of preferring male or female. This is a question of power. Who has the power? This has been brought into the marriage. I think if a woman is equally qualified for a job as a man that she should get the same pay. I think that the most qualified person, male or female, black, white, green or orange, should get the job. I believe that. However, in marriage if the woman finds herself more intelligent than her husband, she does not get the job. She is still the woman and he is still the man.
COMMENT: Do you believe that a woman should become President of the United States someday?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, I think that if she is qualified and God lets her be elected, she can be president. I know I am grossly misunderstood with what I have been saying, but I have no problem with women in leadership positions. Let me put it to you this way. I know without a doubt that there are women that can do everything that men do. I know that there are women who are as intelligent, more so, a lot of women are wiser than a lot of men. A lot of women are more talented than a lot of men. There are women who are capable of being politicians. There are women who are more physically powerful than a lot of men. I do not doubt it for a second. The only thing I have to say is that when the women corporately move out of their female role, they are destroying the society, because this is how they have an effect on the children that is not good.
COMMENT: Could you re-define spiritual male again because what you said about the woman was that she was spiritually male, and I know you cannot be talking about the…. We are growing up to be spiritual males. This is something different, is that right?
PASTOR VITALE: You mean spiritual male in Christ?
COMMENT: Yes, in Christ we are allowed to be spiritual male, is that right?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes
COMMENT: And we come out of that female role?
PASTOR VITALE: This is how I see it. When Christ raises you up, yes, you are becoming a spiritual male and there are going to be a lot of things that you have to give up. I have seen God call married people. Every case is individual but this is the reality. For centuries men were the smart ones, men were the strong ones, men were the wise ones. Men led and ruled their families in spiritual matters, in social matters, and in moral and ethical matters. They were the rulers of their wife and of their children and hopefully, they did it in the love of God. Women traditionally did not have a head for figures. They were not too good at managing money. Sometimes they tended towards a little hysteria in their emotions, depending on the woman (it varied from woman to woman). They cried easily. Men never cried. All this was true. They were in their stereotype roles.
What is happening to our society now is that many women are becoming more manly in that, they are getting stronger, they are educated and they have proven that they can do everything that a man could do. They have become leaders, they have become wise. They have become good with figures. They have become spiritually, emotionally and morally strong and they now have all the qualities that the traditional male has. What is happening is, as the next generation of children start to grow up, they have no female roles. There are no female role models. We have a whole nation of young women today that do not have a choice. They do not know how to be a woman. They did not choose to be a spiritual male but because they had no female role model, we have women that cannot cook. We have women that cannot sew. We have women that do not know how to take care of their babies when they have them; they have to go to school.
They never saw their mother raise their sisters and brothers. They do not know the first thing about raising children. They made a movie about it. I cannot remember the name of the movie. There was a woman executive. She was the only living relative of this baby and they showed her taking the baby’s temperature and she was disgusted with it. All of these things that women have traditionally done, many women are not doing any more. For lack of a better term I would say that the traditional female is rapidly becoming absolute. When female children are born, they do not have a choice, whether to be a professional cool headed spiritual male or to be a traditional female. You do not have a choice because many of the women have never seen what it is like to be a traditional female. The whole country is evolving to what the liberal world calls an androgynous condition. Androgynous means there is no male or female. We already have an androgynous army; there is no difference between the male or the female in the army. You are not allowed to recognise any difference in sex. The whole society is evolving to that. There is going to be no difference in what the men are doing in this hour that the women are working and are professionals. You find marriages where the men and women both do everything, and the children are growing up very confused. Many of them are very confused.
Look at the extent of the drug addiction. There has got to be a reason for it. Drug addiction, alcoholism, promiscuity, our children are being sacrificed. Why? It is because the women do not want to be women. I do not mean everybody; I am talking about large numbers.
COMMENT: I think even in the last generation, even in the family where I came from, the women played both parts. We are even having problems with it.
PASTOR VITALE: It has been coming for a while.
COMMENT: How does this stand in the sense that there is going to come a generation where we do come into neither male or female anymore. We will be like the angels. Could that also be happening in this generation?
PASTOR VITALE: If I understand your question correctly, it is that we have an illegal spiritual male and a legal spiritual male. If you are becoming a spiritual male in Christ, it is okay because the Lord will have His particular plan for every individual’s life. In my life He has not given me a husband. I believe I am a spiritual male and I am still evolving into spiritual manhood, but I do not have any child at home who is being ruined because I am not a role model for her. I am not saying He is not calling married women, I do not know. Jesus Christ is capable of doing anything. If He wants to call a young woman and give her a baby too, He can do it. He is God and He can do anything that He wants.
COMMENT: Let us say there are two Christians that are married and have got children…. If I was married and I had children and I was called to spiritual manhood, could I have the female role and submit to my husband whilst still becoming a spiritual male inside of me? Can I show that submission and raise the children so they can see that, and yet still inside be a spiritual male?
PASTOR VITALE: I think it is possible while you are in transition, while you are developing. It is for a season. You only spend 20 years raising the kids and then you have the whole rest of your life. God may very well give you, both of you, a husband and children. I do not know.
Do not misunderstand me. I am not saying he is not going to give it to you. I do not know. It is very possible. He could do it in many ways. He could probably do it in ways that I cannot fathom.
COMMENT: Aside from the fact of whether I am going to get married or not, I am also asking a question. The question that I was trying to bring forth is that you said that stepping out of the female role is messing up society. How is it then, that becoming spiritually male in Christ is not going to mess up society and affect the children?
PASTOR VITALE: I do not really know about that, because a child needs a mother and a father, and children need to see their mother submit to their father. We are having a problem with rebellion today because children have not seen their mother submit to their father. Therefore they never learned how to submit. This is just my opinion. I could be wrong and I do not have all the answers on this. The way it looks to me from where I am sitting now is that God will give a young woman called to spiritual manhood, a sabbatical, a time out. Let us say she spends five years training to be a spiritual male and then he gives her a husband and she has a couple of kids. He will give her a time out. He might give her 20 years to be a wife and raise the children and when the children are grown then He will call her back into ministry. I have seen God do it. Twenty years to God is nothing.
COMMENT: If God blesses me with a child or if it is God’s will for me to have a child, does that mean that that child is going to be a manifested son of God?
PASTOR VITALE: There is no guarantee, only Jesus decides that. You cannot pass that on in this hour. We cannot pass that on to our children, but we can ask the Lord to do it. Further to your question is that as you become more and more of a spiritual male and you get used to exercising authority and making decisions, it is very difficult to yield it up to your husband. It is painful. If you are a woman that has been raised in a home where the man heads the household and there is no question about it, you are so used to it you do not even think twice about it. But to have been out for years, living your own life, being a professional person, being a leader, and then to find yourself married and required to submit to a man, I am not saying it is impossible, but it is very difficult. Depending on where Christ has brought you to (and I do not know where the line is), getting married will have its difficulties. If Christ has brought you to a high degree of spiritual manhood, and you get married at that point, in my opinion, it will not be a Godly marriage. You have to get before God and get your own personal word. He is going to work everything out together. If you are a young woman and he wants to give you both (spiritual manhood and marriage), you can have both.
COMMENT: What good would it do to come to that spiritual height and then marry someone that will then become the spiritual.… I do not know for sure where the line is, that you can be a spiritual male and be married, because a spiritual male has all those attributes. You do take authority, you do make decisions…. and then if you married someone that is not in the same place, I do not know… I guess people… I am sure they are not all at the same place anyway.
PASTOR VITALE: No two people can ever be exactly the same. Paul said, marry if you must but you should know that there will be tribulation in the marriage. You are taking a chance. You could be more spiritual than your husband and this could be painful, because when you are married you want to share everything. You could find out that you are spiritual and he is not. I know a woman. Right now she is in a fairly deep walk with the Lord and her husband is not even a Christian anymore. He is totally backslidden. Even if you marry somebody that is a Christian, you never know what is coming in the future. To assume you are going to get married and have this glorious marriage where you are going to minister together is not being realistic. God might give it to you but there are no guarantees.
COMMENT: I know a couple of marriages like that.
PASTOR VITALE: I am not saying it cannot be. It can be. All I am saying is really make sure that it is God that is telling you to get married, because it could be very painful. It is bad enough if your husband does not share your spiritual work with you but if he opposes your spiritual work that could be very grievous. I know in my heart that if I had a husband that told me not to serve God it will be death to me. It will be death to me. I have seen it both ways. I have seen marriages where they both minister and I have seen marriages where the man is the woman’s antichrist. He comes against her every time she tries to live for God. What am I saying? I am saying, please get God’s personal plan for your life.
COMMENT: Can I give a testimony? You said earlier that it is a miracle that we are here at this meeting. The last couple of times, I have had trouble getting to the meetings. I had said something like, I know I am going to have to just set everything else aside and try to keep this as priority in the day, other than work. It seems like the Lord is working that out anyway. If He can work out work schedules, I guess He could work it out with married people, work it out with their husbands and their kids too. It is amazing what God is doing with my work schedule. I just obtained a second job and that second job is making it possible for me to also have Thursday nights and Sundays off. That is a miracle to me, to have two jobs and get Thursday and Sunday off. To me that is a miracle. I work in the day time and now I am going to have evening jobs, and if this works out (I do not know but I am going to try it, I have never tried this) I still get Thursday and Sunday off. What I was going to say is I thank God for that second job. It is really needed at this time.
On my way here tonight, I decided I am going to start out earlier because the last time I did not, and the Lord said that I have got to get on that horse and ride it and stay on it. He said that I was on top of it. He said that I was riding that horse. He said, see, you got back on the horse. I could not understand when it was getting out of my control. I was saying to myself, I am in a real battle, but I was putting myself in a position to get attacked. I was singing some songs and I was thinking about the Lord and I was realising that I was too emotional. Over a little thing, like in the song, I will end up laughing about it.
I just came to that revelation tonight that my emotions were not under control. The Lord said that part of riding the horse is bringing those emotions into submission to Christ. I had never realised this before, how I never ruled over my emotions. It is like He is beginning to show me that I can. I thought if I can get a hand on that, that will be wonderful, and not just if I want to laugh, if I am feeling embarrassed, but all the emotions I feel, such as anger. We can have control, not in our own strength, because there is no way we could succeed in our strength, but in Christ. I began to pray and I prayed that the Lord will bring my emotions into submission to Himself. The Lord said that the problem is not with my intellect, the problem is with my emotions. I went, Wow! The counsellor I was with this week had told me that I had a problem concentrating. She said, it is not your intellect, it is your concentration. Then when I talked to you, you said something about emotions, so I thought this is it. The answer is to be able to rule those emotions in Christ. I got the answer to that. I do not have it all under control and I do want it to be a Godly control when it happens.
PASTOR VITALE: This makes you a spiritual male because your wife is your soul. Your wife is your emotions. You are entering in, in some measure, to spiritual manhood.
COMMENT: It made me think of that too. The Lord let me know that each person that is called to this meeting has to take their soul into submission or they will not be here. There is no doubt about it. There has been a struggle, and I can say that I have been through a battle. I have been through and I am still going through.
I will say this right now that I have negative thoughts towards the Pastor, and this week I started saying I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt which she has taught me to do. I prayed and said that I repent of such and such and I give it up. I still feel a feeling but I guess I am starting to do it by the spirit.
PASTOR VITALE: One step at a time.
COMMENT: Yes, but it does count saying I repent. It does count saying it.
PASTOR VITALE: Saying it has a lot of power.
COMMENT: That goes with what this other man said at a fellowship that I was at. He said that we should say we forgive the person even though we might still feel the anger and the wrath. He said we should do it anyway. We should say, I forgive that person, and that just seemed so stupid to me, if I do not feel it here, in my heart.
PASTOR VITALE: It is like water baptism you do it in the earth and God does it in heaven.
COMMENT: So I did it anyway and I can say that it has definitely made a difference and I did not even realise it until today.
PASTOR VITALE: Praise God.
COMMENT: I did it all that day. The negative thoughts were still pressing in, saying, all this is right, this is true. I had to continue to say, oh no, I should not be feeling this hatred, this anger. I repent of that, I know that is wrong. I repent of that and whatever thoughts kept flowing in. They were coming from wherever, I do not know, inside my mind or somebody else’s mind or whatever. I am still dealing with that and yet, today it is a lot better than it was two days ago. Maybe I am taking the victory in a certain area. I do not know.
PASTOR VITALE: You have certainly started, that is good.
COMMENT: I have a lot to come through but I thank God for that and I thank God that he said I was on top of the horse, riding. That means a lot to me, to be on top. I said, oh it will be wonderful to know how to ride a horse. This is what he is showing me, that it is like riding a horse. I cannot wait until I am running.
PASTOR VITALE: It is like riding a horse. The Scripture likens it to riding a horse and I do not know if you remember it or not, but maybe 6 or 8 months ago, you were having a bad moment and I saw a vision of you with your horse riding you. Do you remember me telling you that? It sounds silly in the natural but it is a spiritual principle. Our soul is our horse, and we are suppose to be riding him telling him which way to go but XXXX had a bad moment (and we all have bad moments), and in that bad moment I saw a vision of her and her horse was on top of her, saying, giddy up.
COMMENT: I remember you saying something like that, that I have got to get back on my horse, it is riding me.
PASTOR VITALE: That is what I said to you. You fell off, get back on your horse. You remember that?
COMMENT: What is the horse again?
PASTOR VITALE: The horse symbolises our soul. We are spirit and in order to live in this world system (the way the Lord set it up), we need a soul and a body. The problem is, the soul and the body are made out of the earth and there is an intelligence in that earth which is desperately wicked. The spiritual man which is Christ has been appearing in a many-membered man in the earth since the beginning of time, having many experiences in the flesh and his ultimate goal is to learn to rule his wife which is our flesh. Now that we have Christ, we are him and he is appearing in us to overcome our soul. Why? Because if our soul rides us we shall continue to die until the whole human race is destroyed. When the spiritual man weds the living soul and each person brings their individual soul into submission, the end result of this is that the entire human race shall live. The only way you are going to survive fallen adam is when you come into submission to Christ, otherwise you shall surely be destroyed off of the face of the earth.
As we said earlier, in the natural, with all these women becoming spiritual males…. I keep feeling I did not really explain it adequately. I do not know whether it is God or whether it is me, but I am going to make another comment on that. I am not against women. I believe women are smart, they are talented and they are capable. I agree they can do anything a man can do. Individual women can do anything that other individual men can do. The whole problem is when the women come out of their female role, the children and family life is destroyed. We see in our society a natural example of what I just said. All the women (typifying soul) are riding the horse and this society is being destroyed and our kids are being destroyed. What is the answer? I am not saying that all of these spiritual women should go back to baking cookies. That is what the opponents will say. You see them on television and they say, you want this woman to come down from being a law professor and sit at home and start baking cookies and wiping babies’ touchies? How you can you take someone with that kind of education and put her back into the house? I am saying to you that God is not putting this world system back to the way it was fifty or hundred or two hundred years ago. What He is going to do with these women that have entered into an illegal spiritual manhood is that He is going to appropriate them for Christ.
Somewhere along the line, when it becomes their turn, they are going to have a salvation experience and He is going to translate them into a Christ spiritual manhood and use them in the kingdom of God. They are going to be already prepared. We have talked about this with regards to witchcraft. We have said that a lot of people who have been into witchcraft, or who have a lot of witchcraft on their family line are spiritually developed. Even though they are spiritually developed in a witchcraft sense, they are spiritually developed. When people like that come to Christ, Christ takes them as a spoil of war and He makes them a spiritual person in Christ.
It is possible that they get there much more quickly than someone who has been with Christ, say, for 20 years but was not spiritually developed 20 years ago. They are very slowly, slowly being spiritually developed.
So you see this person that has been with the Lord for only 6 months moving powerfully in the spirit and the other one is not. Why? Because one was spiritually developed when they came to Christ and the other was not, and it just takes time to do the work.
In the proper season He is going to lay hold of all these women who are spiritual men. He is going to give them a salvation experience and they are going to have mature positions in the kingdom of God.
COMMENT: How about the psychologist?
PASTOR VITALE: All of them.
COMMENT: That is incredible! I cannot wait for that, that they would be moved into the kingdom. If their intelligence, and all that they have, is all transferred into Christ….
PASTOR VITALE: Moses was a very educated man. Moses had the best education that Egypt could have offered. In that day he was raised in the king’s house. There is nothing wrong with education, if it is in submission to Christ in your mind.
COMMENT: If we are becoming spiritually males in Christ now, can we go ahead and study a profession? Can Christ use that, or only fallen adam can use that?
PASTOR VITALE: No, if the Lord tells you to do it, you do it. He is the bottom line. He knows whether any individual person could go to college and get a college degree without being polluted by that humanism. The Lord knows, I do not know.
COMMENT: Can you give a pat answer to this question? Maybe you cannot, and you will say that I have to go into my closet or I have to go home and pray about it, but can you give an answer to it? If we have a certain interest and we want to go into that field, or we want to take that course, how can we tell if it is our own interest which will be pride (is that right?) or if it is Christ?
PASTOR VITALE: You are right, our own interest is pride.
COMMENT: How can we know if it is our own pride or if it is Christ? How can we know if it is Christ that is saying, go for it?
PASTOR VITALE: There is no pat answer, and I know I am not telling you anything new. You have to pray, and say (to the best of your ability that you are really able to, no one ever benefits by deceiving themselves), Lord, if you are not giving it to me, I give it up, and I really mean it. I am very honest with God because He knows what is in my heart anyway, so who am I fooling. I have gone as far as to say to Him, I am not going to lie to you, I really want this thing. I want it so bad that I am almost jumping up and down. But I am determined that I want nothing in my life that is not from you and I mean that from the bottom of my heart. I ask you to help me control this sin.
The situation I am talking about had become a lust in my heart, and I called it sin and asked the Lord to please help me with it. If you can pray honestly like that, He will get His witnesses to you but He might not get His witnesses to you the next day or the next week. You go forward with your life and you do what you have to do. You are a young woman living alone so you know that earning money is important to you. You go forward with your life and you keep the matter in your heart and you just see what happens day by day. See if He prospers it. See if He brings it to pass. If you want to go to school, see if you get money for the class. See if He opens the door or see if He hinders you. He does not always come to you with an audible voice and say, yes daughter, go. He may not do that, but you may try to go and find every door closed or you may try to go and find the door is just swinging open. When I look for Christ, I look for Him in everything. I look for Him in what people say to me. I look for Him in the circumstances. I look for Him in what the heathen says to me.
When I used to work in Manhattan, there was a woman on that commuter bus who really was not in her right mind. You could tell by just looking at her that she was not in her right mind. You did not have to be born again to see that. I ran into her in the bagel store and I talked to her for half an hour. At first I thought I was going to minister to her but I was not ministering to her, and I said, Lord what is this all about? It turned out that she had a word for me. Now this woman was not with the Lord. She was a heathen. She was in adultery and she had a real mental problem. She was off, but she talked to me about a worldly situation. It did not have anything to do with the things of God. It had to do with a relationship that I had with a carnal person, a member of my family, and what she said to me gave me understanding of that person. I walked out of that bagel store and I said, Lord I humble myself before you, that you could send a worldly woman in this condition with counsel for me, and I praise you that you have done the work in me that let me hear it and that let me understand and that let me receive what you had for me from this woman. I am telling you, God will speak to you through an animal. We have to be open to Him wherever He is. You will find out whether he wants you to do it or not. You will get your answer, but not always right away and never in the way that you expect it, never.
You have to pray and let it go, and if He answers you in a week, fine, and if He does not answer you in 6 months, fine. Do not get religious about it. Anytime the thought falls through your mind, you say, Lord, I never got an answer from you about that. There has been a time in my life that I had prayed for something and maybe for 6 months He did not answer me. The thought then came into my mind and I prayed just like that, Lord you have not answered me. Within a week I had my answer. Sometimes you have to pray twice, but do the best you can to avoid religious bondage. Avoid repetitious carnal prayers that come when the believer thinks that they have the power to bring this into being by their continuous prayers.
COMMENT: For example?
PASTOR VITALE: For example…. Give me an example for her Lord. I do not know if this is the best example or not, but let us say…. I do not know why this is coming to my mind. I do not really think it applies to anybody here.
Let us say you are a young woman and you are getting married, and your boyfriend cannot at the moment afford to buy you a diamond ring. Every day, three times a day, you are binding and loosing and commanding that diamond ring to manifest, and you are not letting go of it. You are determined in your mind that Satan has stolen your diamond ring. This is a psychic prayer. I do not think there is anything wrong with wanting an engagement ring if you are a young woman, but you ask the Lord for it. If he gives it to you, fine, and if he does not…. you can ask Him twice but it is that putting of your own will into it, saying, I have to have it, give it up soul realm! I command that ring to manifest that is wrong. In a lot of Churches we are taught to pray like that, but it is really not Godly. It is really not. It is a psychic prayer and it is a prayer that is coming from you own heart.
Even when it comes to salvation for somebody, you pray for them for as long as the spirit leads you. Some people say you pray once and you never pray again. I am not saying that, but you pray as the spirit leads you. However, when you start demanding that God save them, and save them now, that is a psychic prayer.
COMMENT: When is it Godly to say, okay soul, give it up in a prayer? When is it Godly?
PASTOR VITALE: That is very tough because that will only be under the anointing, and most people are not that qualified to…. It is very dangerous when it is something that you want. The chances that it is your own heart are very great.
COMMENT: When you are sure, when you know that you know that it is God’s will for you, and it is just a matter of time, can you pray like that? Will that be considered legal?
PASTOR VITALE: No, you could know it is God’s will but it may be the wrong timing. If God’s will lets you get this ring six months from now and you are down on your knees praying every day, I want it now, you have got to do it, you have got to do it, it is a psychic prayer.
Exercising your will makes it a psychic prayer, even when you are praying for someone’s salvation. This is a very hard word. I know you are both praying for salvation for your husbands, but the truth is that the Scripture says that every man in this hour is not going to have a salvation experience. That is just the truth, so you give it to God.
COMMENT: We just have to let go and God will do what He has to do.
PASTOR VITALE: Exactly. To be down on your knees every night in a mindset that says you have the power to pray him into the kingdom, is a psychic prayer. Only God can get him in.
COMMENT: This situation happens so much where one of the partners is saved and the other one is not saved. None of us is saved but I mean, one of the partners has received the Holy Ghost and the other one has not. I remember praying for my Dad way back when I was really little that he gets saved. I think part of it was compassion and part of it was fear that he will go to hell. The teaching that I had received about hell and what hell meant to me then, made me just want to get him saved. I was really serious, and my sister and I were crying about that. What I want to ask you is, how did that affect my dad? I know we prayed under emotion. What did it do to him?
PASTOR VITALE: Can you hold on to that question for now. There are two comments that I want to make here.
The sister just said, none of us is saved. Let me explain that, in case there is someone listening to this tape who has not listened to any other messages. The reality is that we are in the process of being saved. From the day we have our first experience with God, we are on a journey which will end in our full salvation and full salvation is salvation of our soul. When we are fully saved we are going to live for the life of the ages in this realm of appearance. What the sister really meant was we are in the process of being saved. The end of our faith is the salvation of our soul. The second thing that God popped into my mind…. Oh Lord I lost it. Your question was how did your psychic prayer affect your dad? Every case is different, but I know that psychic prayers….
Let me give you a definition here. A psychic prayer is a prayer that is generated from our fallen adamic soul. The fallen adamic man has spiritual power and it is negative spiritual power. Christ has spiritual power and it is a positive spiritual power, and a positive spiritual power gives life. The negative spiritual power gives death. I do not know what happened to your father and I do not want to guess, but it could have hindered him. The word just came back to me, it is right there. Lord, what did you want me to say? It just flashed through my mind but I did not grab it. If you want me to put it on the tape please give it back to me.
The effect of your psychic prayers on him depends on many factors. It depends on the strength of the man, it depends on the family line curses. It did not get him saved, did it? Is he with the Lord? It did not work. At the very least it did not work and at the very best it could have given him some moments of spiritual torment. Do not go feeling guilty, but it can cause him some torment. When somebody is praying their will against another person and that person is strong enough to resist, it will result in torment. Let me say it in another way. If someone is actively praying their will on somebody else, one of two things is going to happen to that other person. Either they are going to yield and do it, or if they refuse to do it because of a natural strength in them, they will experience some form of torment in their soul and probably never know what it was. Depending on the person, it could be a depression, or it could be an irritation. They could go out and fight with somebody; they could go out and get drunk, depending on wherever their life is.
COMMENT: This reminds me of the time when the Lord showed me something about some people (I am not going to say who these people are because they might even get the tape later on), but they are people I know very well. This particular person did not like something her husband was doing and she went away into the bedroom and prayed and prayed that he would stop. It was generated by her mother, her mother encouraged her. As a matter of fact her mother prayed with her, and prayed and prayed that this man will stop what he was doing. The man began to cry, and not know why he was crying. He was never confronted about it, or maybe he was and he decided he wanted to do it. It was his decision to do it, and he was being prayed on. All I got in the vision was that this person was crying and crying, and I said, Lord, help that man. The Lord revealed that he was being psychically prayed upon so that the other person could feel better. She wanted him to be released from it because it was an ungodly thing, but she was praying psychically that he will stop.
PASTOR VITALE: So that she could feel better.
COMMENT: Yes, so that she will not have to put up with it anymore.
PASTOR VITALE: That is an ungodly prayer, people. When somebody is doing something and they are hurting you with their behaviour, you have to forgive them and give it to God. When you start to bind and loose on people or try to control people’s behaviour with your prayers because it is going to relieve you from tension, that is an ungodly prayer and you are hurting that person. I know of somebody who a while back left her parents’ home. She was a twenty three year old young woman, certainly old enough to go get her own place, but her mother, and her older sister did not approve of it. They went and saw her apartment and they did not like her apartment. These people were not Christians. I doubt that they were praying. It is almost impossible, as impossible as it can be without my having been there, to say that they were praying. They were not praying but they were against it and they were talking. They were talking every day, saying, how could this young woman leave her home? How could she live in that apartment? bah bah bah bah bah. They were talking with their will, with their strength, with their disapproval, and a depression came over that woman. She started to cry and she cried for days. She was miserable in her job and in her life. Finally she decided that the answer for her was to go home to live with her parents, and go back to school. One day in tears she called up her mother and said, can I come home please? Her mother said, come home.
She gave up her apartment and went home. After she was home for a short period of time, she realised that there was an ungodly attempt to control her life in the house and within six months moved out again. This time she made it, she stayed out. She did not understand what made her give up that apartment until twenty years later. God told this person more than twenty years later that it was her mother and her sister talking about her with the strength of their disapproval rooted in a very strong will that led to her depression. That was what they did to her. She was almost on the verge of mental illness. She was crying all day. Severe depression is a form of mental illness. When somebody tells you that witchcraft or voodoo cannot touch you unless you believe it, you better not believe that lie. It can touch you and it touches you in direct proportion to whatever weaknesses you might have. The extent to which it touches you depends on how strong you are, and it depends on the extent of the soul tie with the person. When people come against me, I get sick. The reason I get sick is because I have a physical weakness that manifest in infirmity, not that they have power to make me sick. When there is a spiritual attempt to bring me into submission, and I refuse to bend my knee, I frequently get sick. They do not have the power to make me sick, that is my weakness. If my weakness was fornication, I would have gone out and fornicated. Can you hear this? If my weakness was drinking I would have gone out and gotten drunk. If my weakness was that I have trouble being faithful, I may drop out of Church for two months.
Whatever your weakness is, when someone prays against you and you do not do what they want you to do, you manifest your weakness. If you are aware of this and you have the strength to say, Lord help me not to walk down to the bar to get the drink, God will give you the victory. In my case, I just have to wait for God to deliver me because I get sick and I do not see how I could prevent myself from getting sick. I eat a very healthy diet. I take vitamins. You asked me if I was taking my vitamin C. I do everything I can, but I have a physical weakness and I am powerless until God decides to deliver me. Last night I cried out to him, Are you going to let me go to Nigeria like this? How long are you going to let this go on? I believe deliverance came forth, but I will not know for a few days, because when deliverance comes forth in a situation like this, I do not get healed instantly. However, I start to heal normally.
Before the deliverance, there had been something blocking my healing, so the infirmity remains. Now, with the deliverance I start to heal normally, but I do not wake up the next morning and at the snap of my fingers I am over this infirmity. If that was a true deliverance last night and today also, what you hear in my voice will slowly heal and it will stay away, but it will take me a few days to know whether it was deliverance or not.
COMMENT: As regards what you are talking about, I was just thinking of a special evangelist that everybody knows about. He has got into another period of lust again. Do you think that is someone praying that against him or is it just his fallen adamic nature? Could the body of Christ start to pray for mercy on him and pray that he would be willing to want to have deliverance? How would you pray for someone?
PASTOR VITALE: That is an ungodly prayer. To pray your will on somebody is an ungodly prayer. I will never pray that. You can petition the Lord, because you do not really know what the problem is. Maybe he needs deliverance, maybe he has a demon, and maybe it is a curse. You see the behaviour but you do not really know what God is doing in his life. In a case like that, my prayer will be, Father, bless the man. He is giving his whole life to you. You have permitted him to become a spectacle in front of the whole world. This man has given his whole life to God. How terrible. I feel terrible for him that this sin should be revealed to the whole world, in the newspapers. Nobody is perfect. Nobody is perfect. How terrible!God please help him. That will be my prayer. You cannot pray your will. You cannot pray your opinion as to what he needs. That is a psychic prayer. I have not seen it though. You saw it in the papers? You heard it on the television? You heard it on the local station? I just want to make sure it is not hearsay
COMMENT: You know it is funny that you should mention it, but that is his weakness. As you were just saying now, each of us has that weakness that we have to overcome and I think that each of us knows where our weakness is but sometimes you get blind to what you know and you fall into a trap and this is what happened to him.
PASTOR VITALE: How terrible, I feel terrible for him. That man has blessed millions of people. He has blessed them spiritually. He has blessed them with food and with clothing and with medical and dental care. He has brought the word of the Gospel and the anointing to the entire world. How terrible that this should happen to him. I just pray that God uses it for his good. It is terrible to have it in the newspapers, and think of how it is affecting his family. We are to pray for God’s mercy on him. Do not forget that when you are a minister and you have an international ministry a lot of people would come against you.
I have about 3 or 4 or 5 people that I know off coming against me right now, and I get sick. I have been having this cold for 4weeks already. Do you know how many people talk about him? Do you know how many people hate him just because God has blessed him? Do you know how many people hate him just because he has an international ministry? Do you know how heathens out there hate him because he is out there asking for money? I do not ask for money but that is what he does, and he has blessed millions of people with that money. I know he is not living like a pauper, but I am not judging what he takes for himself. He has fed and clothed many people and he has distributed Bibles and medicines. He has not kept all that money for himself. He has gone all over the world and people hate him, hate him. Someone said he might need deliverance. Here is the catch. If all of this ungodly power is coming against him and is causing this thing to manifest, he has got to get delivered from his weakness. All of us, we all have got to get delivered from our weaknesses. Jesus said, the prince of this world cometh but he has nothing in me.
COMMENT: I am asking the same question, can we help him spiritually?
PASTOR VITALE: No, we cannot do anything.
COMMENT: We cannot pray anything?
PASTOR VITALE: We can pray to the Father for mercy and say, Lord is there anything you will have me to do? Is there any prayer that you will give me to pray? To pray our own will is a psychic prayer. When we got involved in this Saudi Arabia war, I said to the Lord, how would you have me to pray for Saddam Hussein? How would you have me to pray? My carnal mind was thinking, pray he should get assassinated! Do you know what prayer the Lord gave me? He gave me a prayer for his salvation, and it was very anointed. After that I found out that other believers had the same experience with God.
Then I said to the Lord, how I do pray about this war, Lord? How do I pray about this war? There are Iraqis over there that are getting killed. How do I pray about this war? He gave me a very simple prayer, let the wicked be punished and let the righteous be delivered. That was the prayer, and he put it in my heart that if there was a righteous Iraqi over there, that he was going home alive. If there was an Iraqi over there that God decided was going to survive this thing, he went home to his family. The righteous on both sides were delivered and the wicked on both sides were destroyed. Of course, as a nation, Iraq was unrighteous and they lost the war but on an individual basis, God looked over those people that he declared righteous, not the ones I declared righteous. Let me tell you something, incase you have never heard this before. If those people over there are Muslims and have never heard the message of Christ but they are honouring the only God that they know, and in their heart they are reaching out for God and the only one they know is Allah, he will reveal to them who the only true God is in due season. If they are honouring the Law of God that is written on their heart and they are doing to others as they would have them do unto them, God loves those people and in the right season he will reveal to them who the only true God is. If he has not revealed it to them yet and they are living for God as best as they can, they have an imputed anointing of righteousness. I do not care how many preachers will come against me for this, but I am telling you that it is true. Jesus Christ is a merciful God and he will not charge you for what he has not shown you.
In this hour the whole world is not Christian, because Jesus Christ has not called them to be Christian in this hour. What is He doing in this hour? He is doing two things; He is spreading a basic knowledge of Christianity, even though it is with a lot of false doctrine, but it is with His spirit. He is spreading His spirit over the world. The second prong of His effort is that once He gets hold of somebody that has His spirit and that is reading his word, that has been putting His word into their heart, He is coming in and forming Christ in them. He is involved in a two pronged effort. First He gets you, and you have got to read that letter of the word. It has got to get into your mind, and you have got to get the Holy Spirit. We have got one branch of the Church evangelising the world, doing that. Then he has got another branch of the Church going after the first group, forming Christ. That is what we are doing here. We are preaching Christ. We are preaching Christ. If you stay under this ministry, Christ is going to be formed in you, full stature, perfection. So it does not mean that you are right and they are wrong, or they are right and you are wrong. Everybody has got their job. Jesus is merciful and He loves the whole human race.
COMMENT: Even the ones that are preaching the false doctrine have their own job, is that right?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, they sure do, and some of them are doing a very good job. He is spreading the Spirit of God all over the world. It may be false doctrine but the Spirit of God is over there. People are reading the word, and they are praying, and that is exactly what the Lord told them to do. They are not responsible until he comes to them and says, that is false doctrine, give it up! This is the judgement of the Church. The Lord says to them, you have been doing it for twenty years, you have believed it for twenty years, but it is time for it to come to an end. I am telling you that the spirit is true and the word is true but you have had it in a letter and it is time to give up the letter. Then when they do not come, the judgements fall. Do not worry about your friend, God wants to bring her into the kingdom. Do not feel bad about the prayer that I prayed at the beginning of the service because when her curses go back on her own head, the end result is that she would say, Lord what happened? Then He is going to tell her, you are wrong, repent! Lord willing, she will repent and get the true message.
God is not a monster. Your friend is very blessed. She has come under the judgement of God to correct her error. Do not feel bad, rejoice, rejoice! She is going to be fine and I hope she enters in. I pray that she enters in. We can get the mind of Christ here. We better stop thinking with the carnal mind. He is God. He does not have to go around killing people and throwing them into an oven. He just has to change their heart. How does He change their heart? He chastens them. Very frequently, when He brings you in contact with someone that He has prepared to be a vessel in this chastening, very often there is a break between the two people. There are unpleasant words expressed, but years later you see that the person comes around. Do not get upset if relationships break, if it is God. You heard that story when you came in, about that man that called me a witch and left. Yes, he did call me a witch and leave, but that does not negate all that God had done. He had a week of intense deliverance, so did his girlfriend, but God decided for that moment that it was enough. Why? Because you can only get so much deliverance and then you have to walk in it. You have to live it. You have to see the results of it coming into your life.
Then when God says, now is the time, you get more deliverance. He got enough and he could not bear it. He could not bear it. I was very hard on him. He could not bear it so he rose up and he left. Maybe God will bring him back into my life, maybe he would not. What does the carnal mind do when it cannot bear the chastening? It calls call the other person a witch. Praise the Lord. He could not bear to look at himself in the mirror, so he escaped. We are all looking in a mirror, the mirror is Christ. We have got to see ourselves, and it is very painful to see ourselves, very painful. I have spent hours crying over what I have seen when I have looked into Christ. It is very painful. I have cried for hours over it. When God puts you up against somebody and you start to see yourself, the first reaction is to attack the other person. In that relationship with that person you start to see yourself and your first reaction is to attack the other person. God has got that man. Maybe I will see him again someday, maybe yes, maybe no, but it does not matter. The only thing that matters is that he has got enough deliverance in that week to move him out. We prayed for him all night, is that not right? Whatever God is going to do with him, God is going to do with him. We have to start getting this mind of Christ which is a spiritually male mind. We have to stop being women.
Did you ever see a movie about an old fashioned family in which the father is very strong and he is saying, that young man must leave the house, and his wife is saying, oh John, please, does he really have to go? And the father is saying, yes he has to go. Did you ever see a movie like that? We have a couple of yeses here. This is what God is calling us to. Do not moan and groan over the judgement. Glory to God for the judgement. Glory to God for their pain. However, if you are in contact with them when they are in pain, you do not say glory to God, because they cannot understand. I say to people lots of time that I am really sorry that they are in pain, but I am not sorry that God judged them, and I am not sorry for the result of that judgement because it is going to be an increase in Christ. I am sorry that they are hurting, but I know there is no other way. It has to be, and the result of it is eternal life.
We have got to get this male mind and stop worrying that the curses went back on her head. It is wonderful the curses went back on her head. Let her get God’s mind on what she did. That deception in her mind has got to be broken. Do you understand what I am saying? We have got to become men. I have watched movies about army generals such as Eisenhower and Patton during the period that God had me watching movies, and he showed me what accepted male behaviour in battle is. In one movie, Kirk Douglas was acting the part of an army officer that was helping Israel. His good friend was up in a plane and he got shot down. He witnessed his friend being shot down and he looked at the plane and just turned and walked away.
You cannot go around crying and moaning and groaning; it will kill you. He knew that the war was righteous and was for the establishment of Israel. He knew that men went up on that plane knowing they could die and if they died they died, but Israel became a free nation. We have got to grow up. God wants us to be male in this area, especially if you are in this ministry. When I say this ministry I do not mean Living Epistles. I mean the spiritual end time ministry of Christ. When you are in the spiritual end time ministry of Christ you cannot do your job if you are female in your mind. The execution of judgement is the mercy of God, because if Jesus does not do it they shall surely die in their sins.
I listened to the tape that she heard and I said, oh my God! No wonder she was manifesting. The whole tape was saying you cannot stop with the imputed anointing; you have got to be made righteous. Christ has to be formed in you. You have to go on. That is what was on the tape, from the very first word. I said, oh my God no wonder she was going crazy.
COMMENT: Why is it that some of us have to wait for judgement.
PASTOR VITALE: Because Jesus wants us to have judgement at a time that it is going to produce the peaceable fruit of righteousness.
COMMENT: Yes, but how come we cannot submit? How come it is that way? He could have made us with a more submissive heart, could he not? Why is it that some of us have to get judgement instead of mercy.
PASTOR VITALE: Everybody is judged.
PASTOR VITALE: Everybody, because none of is perfect .We have all fallen short of the glory of God, and in every area in which we are not Christ-like we must be judged.
COMMENT: But can the person not choose? Could l not choose? I was personally in a relationship where the person asked me why I had to wait for the judgement, saying that they were choosing to separate from me, and that was the judgement. They wondered why I had to wait for the judgment. In other words, I did not submit in the relationship so they were cutting it off. Do you know what I am saying?
PASTOR VITALE: I know what you are saying, I am just thinking of what to answer you.
COMMENT: They chose to cut it off. Do you know what I am saying?
PASTOR VITALE: I know what you are saying. The answer is that only Jesus can end a relationship. If that person was speaking the truth, then God separated you. If they were not speaking the truth, if they were doing it in their own strength, then it was sin. Anything that is not of faith is sin. God is supposed to be in control of our life. I am not talking about that particular incident, but for anyone to say to anyone, I am cutting you off, I find it very hard to believe that it is God. In the instance where the relationship is so destructive, God will let you separate for a season until you become strong enough to function in the relationship. This is the only exception that I can see. We are to forgive seven times seventy times. We are not to cut anyone out of our lives, on one hand. On the other hand, we submit our lives to Christ and He will bring separation for a season. During this time He will be working on the individuals, on their imperfections and bring them back together again.
COMMENT: What is the opposite of judgement, is it mercy?
PASTOR VITALE: Judgement is the mercy of God, it is not opposite.
COMMENT: It is the same thing then?
PASTOR VITALE: Judgement is mercy.
COMMENT: If a person would repent, they would not receive judgement?
PASTOR VITALE: That is true, but we talked about this at the last meeting. We are told in the book of Job that we are not capable of repenting without judgement. We need the fiery trials and we need the hard experiences. This is the way that we are made. Job said to God, why not just tell me what is wrong with me and I will repent. Why do I have to go through all this sickness? God said to Job, you do not have the power to repent. You do not have the power to repent. God grants repentance and the way He does it is by judging our soul. We found some Scriptures in The Book of Revelation where we looked up every single word and found out that it was saying we must get a new unconscious mind and a new conscious mind. Jesus Christ is our new unconscious mind. He is defeating Satan in the realm of the unconscious but our conscious mind, which is in our soul, is a harlot. Even though we have a new unconscious mind which is Christ, we are still fornicating or committing adultery with our old unconscious mind, Satan.
We are still doing things the old way, and the way the Lord Jesus Christ is teaching us to change our ways, to get our needs met according to his life not according to Satan’s mind, is through judgement. Did I make that clear? Can I say it again? Did somebody not understand what I said?
COMMENT: It brings me to this question. You had said at the last meeting that a person cannot repent from their own will. In other words, if I choose to repent I cannot do it in my own power. I cannot stop sinning in my own power.
PASTOR VITALE: You have to decide to repent. You have to be turned towards repentance, and then Jesus does it in your heart. It is the same thing as forgiveness. You mentioned it earlier, some people say, fake it until you make it. You have to be willing to repent, desirous of repentance. You have to petition the Lord to grant you repentance, because when we truly repent we are delivered from whatever the torment is in our lives.
COMMENT: On one of the tapes that I listened to, you were pointing to a particular sin (I do not remember which one) and saying that the people had to repent of that sin. You were saying, you have to repent, you have to, you have to. What I am hearing is that I have to repent but you just said we cannot repent by our own will.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes. Okay. Let me explain that. It sounds like a contradiction but it is not. Sometimes I cross over between confession and repentance.
We have to say that it is our sin. We have to confess that it is a sin, and that we are convicted that it is a sin. We have to recognise that we should not have done it. That is the repentance that the natural man is capable of. We have to recognise that we should not have done it, and if the sin is against somebody else, I believe the Lord requires us to say, I am sorry. We do it in the natural and then he does it in the spiritual, because when we commit the sin something spiritual happens to our soul. I will give you a natural example. If you take a finger and cut it off, something alters your soul. When we confess that that was sin and we are really sorry that we did it, that is the beginning of the procedure which ends by God changing our soul. We do it in the natural, he does it in the spirit. Do you understand what I am saying?
COMMENT: Yes, but I have heard you say though (I think you said it to me) that we have to repent from our heart. So you are saying I have to repent from my heart.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes but none of us can repent unless God raises repentance. The way you repent from your heart is to confess that you did wrong and truly desire to repent and then Jesus works it into you. We do it with him.
COMMENT: Do you think XXXX is referring to the repentance that Esau could not have. Esau could not repent no matter how much he tried.
PASTOR VITALE: I honestly do not know. I have to think about that. I will think about it later, I do not want to hold up the tape. Father I just pray that you give me an answer for XXXX that is going to satisfy her. I do not know how to explain it anymore, but when I said that to you (in my recollection of when I said that to you), it was in a conversation where you would not even confess that you did anything wrong, or if you did confess that you did something wrong, it was with an arrogant attitude that said, yes I did it. What I said to you was that you have to repent to the fullest extent that you are able in your flesh. Do you understand what I am saying? You have to repent to the fullest extent that you are able in your flesh. You have to at least say, yes I did it and yes that is a sin and I am sorry. Then when you get that far, you must repent.
Yes, what I said on the other tape was true. You must repent (whoever you are). You must repent. You must confess to the person that you hurt that you did wrong and that you are sorry and then Jesus takes care of your damaged soul, but you have to take that first step, or He will never do the work in the spirit. Do you understand what I am saying?
COMMENT: Yes, a little bit better.
PASTOR VITALE: Okay, praise the Lord. I tend to blur confession and repentance together a lot. Lord, please help me to not do that. The Lord has shown me that a lot of people have trouble confessing their sins and when they do confess their sins, it may take a year for them to repent. I never knew that before, that some people have a time period between confession and repentance. To me confession and repentance always went together, but that was my own experience. Everyone has their own experience. Lots of times, I blur the two, but we do have to confess sin, and repent. We do have to admit that we have done wrong and if we have done it to a person, we do have to confess it to them that we did wrong to them and say we are sorry. That hopefully, Lord willing, will restore the relationship and then Jesus goes forward to bring forth deliverance in our soul.
COMMENT: If somebody had committed a sin against me and they are not willing to confess it, I cannot do anything about it, right?
PASTOR VITALE: No, you have to forgive them any way.
COMMENT: I have to forgive and let it go? I cannot insist that they confess it to me?
PASTOR VITALE: You can only do it if….
COMMENT: I cannot tell them they did me wrong and ask them to confess that sin to me?
PASTOR VITALE: I understand what you are saying. I have two comments on that. Let me start with this one. We all have a right as a human being to express our feelings, but it is very important the way we say it. If you went to somebody and expressed how you felt, it is acceptable. It is called an I-statement. To say to somebody, I have been very hurt by your behaviour, I feel that you have wronged me, I feel damaged and I feel that you need to repent to me. That is very acceptable. To say how you feel is very acceptable but when you get into a conversation where you are saying to the person, you need to repent, if it is Christ in you saying it, it is okay but if it is your fallen adamic soul trying to force that person to repent because you are distressed over your conflict with that person, it is ungodly.
COMMENT: If you are rejected or hurt, is it Godly to go to that person and say I feel rejected and hurt?
PASTOR VITALE: The Scripture says go to your brother, and if he hears you, you have gained a brother. You just have to be careful that the conversation does not get into accusation.
COMMENT: That is all you do, and if they refuse, then you let it go?
PASTOR VITALE: Then you let it go. I always do the best I can to express myself. If I am not getting a Godly response or what I perceive to be a Godly response I will ask them if they are willing to pray with me about it. If they are willing to pray with me about it, I will pray a prayer that will say, Father please show both of us any error that we might have in this situation and bring a Godly reconciliation. If they are willing to pray a prayer like that with me, that is good enough for me, because I know that God is going to answer the prayer. However, if they will not even do that, there is just nothing you can do. You have to take the loss. Paul said that we should suffer the loss. You have to take the loss and let God use it, work it in you, to make you a better person. He will use that to work forgiveness in you, and to work against any selfishness that you might have. He will use it to break you.
God might let people come into your life that will not repent because He is requiring us to forgive people that hate us and that are not repentant. This is not just you, this is everybody. I have been through it and I still go through it. He is teaching us to deal with every kind of human problem in Christ. He is teaching us to deal with people that are willing to make up with us, and people that are not willing to make up with us. He is looking at us and he is measuring our spiritual growth.
He is letting all kinds of experiences come to us because he wants our fallen adamic reactions to be destroyed. He wants us to learn how to respond out of Christ. This is the destruction of our fallen adamic soul. This is the judgement of our conscious mind which is still fornicating with Satan. We have got to stop fornicating with Satan. This means we have got to stop taking our responses to our problems from Satan and we have to start responding with Jesus’ responses. If we continue to respond with Satan’s mind we are going to die. We shall surely die in our sins, but as we start to response with Christ’s responses, life is given unto us, hopefully in this hour, unto full stature. It is exciting.
Even for the people who lived in an hour where their hope was not to enter into full stature, I would think we would want to do the best we could for Christ in our lifetime. The challenge that he has given us is that no matter what kind of a conflict we get into, whether we have words with the person or whether it never comes to words…. I have conflict with a lot of people that I never have words with. How can that be? It is because I know what they are thinking about me. God has developed me to such a point spiritually that I know when somebody is mad at me, even if they never say a word to me. I know all about it and I am praying away. I am dealing with it in prayer. Sometimes it comes out. I have known all week that you are having a problem with me. I knew that. Sometimes it never comes out in the open. Sometimes it comes out in the open and God is teaching us to respond in a Godly manner, no matter what happens.
Anger and unforgiveness and hostility and breaking relationships (which is really just pride saying, If I cannot have it my way, I am going to break the relationship, or, you are hurting me too much I am breaking the relationship)…. God wants us hurt. We are being hurt. We are getting stripes, and it is changing us over from fallen adam to Christ. As long as it works for good in our lives, we have to be hurt, all of us.
COMMENT: If we have a relationship with someone who does not believe what we believe, can we have a Godly separation? I do not even know what a Godly separation is, but I know that I had to separate from certain people (I am not sure for how long) and I think it is of God. If one is pulling you down, can you separate from them?
PASTOR VITALE: No, you put it before the Lord. You put it before the Lord. I have gone before the Lord, years ago when I was going through this. I said, Lord I feel this person has an ungodly influence over me and I am doing things that I will not normally do. What do you want for me with this person? He will do it. You can be seeing the person every day and all of a sudden they are not there. What happened to them? They disappeared. Here is your faith in God. You have to have faith in God that he is going to move people in and out of your life.
COMMENT: I had this relationship with this one person that said because they believed a certain thing and I did not believe it, I believed the opposite, in just this one area, they would have to cut off the relationship. We had a whole relationship going on and in one area I did not believe what they believed, and they said that they would have to cut off the relationship, because I did not believe the way they did in that particular area.
PASTOR VITALE: That is not a Godly relationship because we are supposed to be free to think whatever we want to think. We are not free to force our opinions on other people but we should be free to think whatever we want. I could see somebody who does not believe in abortion saying that they do not want to marry somebody who believes in abortion. Maybe, that is a ground to not marry somebody, maybe. However, to be in a relationship with somebody who says you have to believe everything that they believe, that is very unhealthy, and it is one of the signs of a dysfunctional family, where everybody has to believe the same thing. What just came to my mind is that this is what is going on in the Church world. If you believe something else, they do not want to talk to you. They cut off the relationship. The Church is dysfunctional.
COMMENT: The whole Church is a dysfunctional family.
PASTOR VITALE: It is true, it is true. The Church world is dysfunctional. That really blessed me, that the Church is a dysfunctional family. I have met a lot of people that like me (if I am any kind of a judge of their reaction to me). They recognise that the spirit on me is God, and they love to minister with me in the gifts, and then as soon as they hear the doctrine they break the relationship. There is a lot of fear in the Church and you are controlled by fear. That is another sign of a dysfunctional family.
COMMENT: You have got to believe the same….
PASTOR VITALE: …or fight over it if you do not believe and you have a fight on your hands.
COMMENT: They try to force their belief on the other person….
PASTOR VITALE: Right.
COMMENT: ….and you feel pressure about having to think the same
PASTOR VITALE: Right. That is not Godly at all. You are entitled to your own thoughts.
COMMENT: It is almost like you cannot have an opinion.
PASTOR VITALE: Right, that is what it is. You cannot have an opinion. I am told that there are some Churches (I have experienced it) where the pastor says that you cannot have a different opinion than the pastor. He is the pastor; you have to believe what he believes. That is a cult spirit. I am not saying that every Church is a cult but you find that quality in a cult.
COMMENT: Or they want you to dress the same.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes
COMMENT: There is always a pressure to follow the dress code, always a pressure.
PASTOR VITALE: Really?
COMMENT: Oh yes, some churches you cannot go in unless you wear a dress. Maybe you can, but you feel the pressure, and sometimes they preach it from the pulpit.
PASTOR VITALE: Oh really?
COMMENT: Yes and I know some ministers from way back camp ground, stuff like that, they preach it from the pulpit, or you just feel pressure to conform or you see everybody doing it. There has always been dress code pressure. That is dysfunctional too.
PASTOR VITALE: A lot of people in the world really do not want to have anything to do with the Church because they see these very genuine criticisms of the Church and they do not want any part of it. They are right in what they see, they are not right in everything that they say. One of the biggest problems in the Church as I see it is that the ministers do not give enough credit to the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost convicts us of sin and the Holy Ghost deals with us. We are supposed to be in a spiritual ministry and if you are a minister and you have a problem in the congregation or with any member of the congregation, you are supposed to pray about it. You are supposed to let the Lord deal with them.
Sometimes you pray and the Lord tells you to say something to the person, then you do it. But we see a whole Church world full of ministers trying to control the problems in the Church carnally. There are a lot of problems in the Church. People fight with each other, people are jealous, people are Jezebellic, people are insulting one another. These are very common problems in the congregation. These things happen. People get their feelings hurt. Someone is trying to work witchcraft on someone else in the congregation, and force them to cover their head or wear a dress or whatever. The preacher is not trying to tell you to do it, but someone else in the congregation is trying to tell you do it. This is very common. The ministers do not give enough credibility to the Holy Ghost to deal with the people and they try to take this human authority over them and it is not Godly. It is not Godly. Do you want to say something?
COMMENT: I remember not getting a word said to me, about dress but getting a look of disapproval as a woman in slacks. This happened in certain Churches, even spiritual Churches, deliverance Churches, a Church where they are into the gifts, into the Spirit of God. I am not talking about Pentecostal holiness or something. I am talking about a deliverance Church or a Church that is moving in the Spirit and God is there, moving. I remember getting a look like it is not of God that women wear pants. I know that look. Without a word, the person is giving me the disapproval look.
PASTOR VITALE: All l have to say about that is this that in this hour this is the way the Church world is, and if you want to go to a particular fellowship, you should honour the head of the household. We cannot force our beliefs, even if they are genuine, on other people. I do not care what you look like when you come here as long as you have clothing on. I will be upset if you came in nude, to be frank with you, but as long as you are wearing clothing, I am okay. I think maybe if you came in reaking from body odour…. even then I will probably pray. If you were not clean or if you have an odour about you, I might pray about it, but it will all depend on the situation. It would depend on the situation. If you came in once and you had an odour about you but the other times you did not, I probably will not say anything, or I might, as the spirit moves on me.
I do not care whether you wear pants or not. It is very funny, I use to have, I guess it was a religious spirit, when I first started preaching. I was always all dressed up. Now I am never dressed up, and I said in a couple of meetings, if we ever get into more formal meetings with more people, I do not know what I am going to do because I do not want to get dressed up anymore. I am very comfortable. I do not care if you have a cup of coffee during the meetings. I will not want anybody to smoke. I would say something about that because that is a vice. We used to have people coming in straight from work, and they all came in with coffee. They worked hard all day and they would grab a bite to eat, and they came in for some very deep teaching. I do not care if you have a cup of coffee with you, but if something hits me wrong in the spirit, I always pray about it before I say a word. I almost never, to the best of my ability, will say something to anybody without praying about it first. A lot of times I let things go and some people take it for weakness. I am pretty strong in Christ, do not misjudge me. A lot of people misjudge me because I let a lot of things go, because I was not sure if I was hearing from Christ at the moment. I will let the wrong occur if I do not feel at that moment I am hearing from God. I will let it pass.
When I pray about it and I hear from God on it, and He tells me how I should have dealt with the problem, I will say to the Lord, Father, if you want to let it go, fine, but if you want it corrected, you bring it to a head. I will not do anything in my own power, and sure enough within a week, I get the same situation with the same person again, and this time I know what God wants me to do, and I do it. To the best of my ability I do not want to do anything outside of the Spirit of God. Why will I want anything that is not of Christ? My heart’s desire is to be a son of God, to walk after the spirit in all things, and I am willing to suffer the wrong if I am not sure what to do. Sometimes I pray while I am talking to somebody. It is not a big religious prayer, just Lord, what do you want me to do? Sometimes He does not answer me and I just let it go, I just let it go.
Lots of times, someone who lets things go in a situation like that will be attacked by their pride. Oh, she got the best of me. Oh she got the best of me. That is just your pride. I should have said something, I should have told her off! That is pride. That is all pride. Take the loss. Take the loss rather than say something that will start up a controversy that was not started by Christ. To start a controversy not initiated by Christ is a very serious thing. Take the loss rather than do that. This is how to be a new creature. We have a new mind, and we have to live out of that new mind. Almost without exception, any gut reaction that we have is not Christ. It is fallen adam. We have been married to him for so long….
COMMENT: ….it is embedded.
PASTOR VITALE: It is embedded, you are right. Almost without exception, whatever gut reaction we have it will be adamic. That is why we have to be slow in our responses, to really find out what the Lord is saying to us.
COMMENT: Would it be appropriate to always say, Lord, what will you do in a situation like that?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, I pray that all the time. I pray that all the time especially when I am distressed. I say, Lord what will you do in this situation? What will you think? I pray that frequently and if I am upset in any way, my distress usually leaves me very shortly after I pray that prayer. Jesus is never upset, it is just fallen adam that is upset. It is fallen adam that is proud. It is fallen adam that is rejected. It is fallen adam that is hurt. It is fallen adam that feels like a failure. It is fallen adam that is condemned. None of this is Christ. Christ is peace and joy and contentment and love. He does not feel any of this stuff.
COMMENT: I guess when you measure it up to each of those fruits it is easy to look at it, to discern it.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes. Ideally we are going to get to a place where we can grab hold of ungodly thoughts and emotions before we speak them out. God has got me to a place (I do not do it all the time but a large part of the time) where I get angry at somebody and just stop dead in my tracks and say, Why am I angry at that person? I say, did they do something to make me mad? No, they did not do something to make me mad. I investigate further as to why I am angry. Sometimes they did something to make me mad. I go through this whole thing in my mind. I say, they did something that made me mad, but what was their motive? They did not really mean to hurt me. God help me to forgive them. I cannot forgive them, Lord help me. How do I deal with this person? Nobody is perfect, but they have got a quality that is irritating me. How do I live with them? How do I deal with it? Then I get the person that I am angry at because I have a really good reason to be angry at them, not just because of a quality in them that is irritating me. They really did something out of line. I will say, Lord what do you want me to do? Sometimes He tells me to talk to them about it. Sometimes I do not need to talk to them. I just pray about it and the situation turns around.
COMMENT: I used to get so upset when I read the Psalms where David will be asking God to curse his enemies. Maybe it is my carnal mind, but it always seems so offensive. Is there a reason?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, under the old covenant, natural Israel was told to be very aggressive warriors. They went out and they murdered in their battles to take the land. In this covenant, the battle is spiritual and our enemies are the demons and the carnal mind. A lot of people that do not understand get offended. There is a version of the Bible that has cut out every verse in the Psalms that sounds like that. In this dispensation our enemies are the demons and the carnal minds of men, and as long as it is Christ in us praying, we can ask God to cast them down, to destroy them. This is the key. We cannot pray that prayer because we are having a problem. If we start attacking someone’s carnal mind because they are coming against us with their carnal mind and we just want it to go away, then it is a wrong motive. It is attacking the other person’s carnal mind because we cannot deal with them.
How are we supposed to deal with them? In love, in forgiveness, in mercy, in honesty, in communication, and in an honest desire to strengthen the person that has wronged us. We are supposed to deal with them in this Godly manner. If we cannot do that, and we attack them instead, it is wrong. We see this in deliverance a lot. Someone has got a strong Jezebel spirit and because it is annoying you and you cannot take it anymore, you start coming against Jezebel. No, no, that is totally wrong. That is your carnal mind striving with her carnal mind. That is witchcraft on both of your parts. We are to deal with ungodliness in our brethren through honest communication, in the love of God. If we cannot do it because we are too weak, the Lord requires us (and I believe this with all my heart) to confess that we do not have the strength to deal with our sister in a Godly manner. We have to confess it as sin and ask Him to give us that ability. Then when he gives us that ability, and we are dealing with them in an honest communication, in righteousness, and our heart is to help them, then under the anointing we can go after their carnal mind, but not for our own benefit. When we are praying against somebody else just to defend ourselves, it is witchcraft. Does anyone not understand the difference? This is very important. We have a whole Church of witches out there.
COMMENT: Will you not say that is pride?
PASTOR VITALE: It is pride and it is also fear. We are little babies that have entered into spiritual warfare. I want to tell you that your daughter-in-law really blessed me, a couple of weeks ago. I was up there having breakfast with her and she told me that your grandson had fed the bird (they have a cockatiel). She said to me, bird seed was all over the living room floor, but you know, you have to let them do things, but then I had to go in and clean it up. The Lord just flashed this picture in my mind of the whole Church world of Christian-infants, messing up everywhere they go, but they have to practice or they will never grow up. That is what God said to me. They are out there dropping bird seeds and bird droppings all over everybody.
Nine-tenths of the Church world is out there practicing witchcraft, but He is letting them do it because they have to have their little experiences in God. Those of us that are more mature are to help them. We are to help them have an honest communication. When God tells us to rebuke them, we have to rebuke them, but that is a last resort. We do not meet them on their own level, and I never send back curses unless God tells me to. You do not meet them on their level, striving to see which one of you is going to pray the one down. It is witchcraft. The Church has got to grow up. She is going to grow up as the true elders of the Church are revealed. Right now she does not know who her true elders are.
COMMENT: Did you ever do a study on the whole book of Psalms or Songs of Solomon?
PASTOR VITALE: I have been through it, yes.
COMMENT: I just wondered what the concubines and queens are. What do they symbolize?
PASTOR VITALE: The only teaching I have on it is on message number 2, and I really cannot answer your question. I have done some research on parts of it, but I cannot answer your question. However, the Songs of Solomon is a story of the love affair between the Lord and the Living soul, and we are a many-membered soul. What I questioned is towards the end of that book, in the very last chapter. Whoever is speaking says, we have a younger sister and she has no breasts. So there is definitely an elder and a younger in the Church and those of us that have breasts have the ability to nourish and strengthen the younger members of the Church, and the last thing we ever do is fight with them. You never fight with them.
I believe that sometimes God can anoint you to get involved in a conversation that might sound like an argument. It is not ideal though, it is not ideal. Sometimes it is necessary. It depends on what the condition of the person is and what God is trying to accomplish in them. We all have to come to a place where we can discern whether we are in Christ or not. I fall out of Christ from time to time, and I know when I fall out of Christ. I fall down into fallen adam and I know it. I have been in altercations when I am in Christ, it does happen but it is rare.
We are supposed to have control over our souls, as we were saying earlier. What God is challenging us to do this is what the upper echelon of our society is capable of doing. This is what politicians do. This is what people who have been trained for their entire childhood do. It is not enough to get an education to be a politician; that is not enough. It is not enough to know the language; it is not enough to be educated. You have to have control over your soul in order to be a politician, doctor, lawyer, or a professional of any kind. It is not enough to go to college and get the formal education. You need the education that you are supposed to be getting from your family. You need to be taught how to deal with people, how to control yourself, how to speak without raising your voice, how to not be overtaken, how to behave in a godly manner. These are things you are supposed to learn as a child, and this is what Christ is requiring of us. The whole country is largely made of families of women that think nothing of sending their kids to day-care. They think the only thing that the kid requires is food, clothing, shelter, and an education. They do not understand that the child needs to be taught how to be a human being. The child needs to be taught how to solve problems. The child needs to be taught how to relate to a wife or a husband or a sister or a brother, and if there is no home life they do not learn it. They wind up the way we have our kid’s today, drug addicts all over the place.
COMMENT: When you are living out of Christ, or staying in Christ and not falling into fallen adam, you are not saying that you are in full stature, are you?
PASTOR VITALE: No. When you are in full stature you never fall down to fallen adam.
COMMENT: If you are living out of Christ most of the time and rarely falling into fallen adam, in other words your whole soul is under control, that does not mean you are in full stature, does it?
PASTOR VITALE: No. One of the qualifications to be in full stature is that your soul never gets out from under you, never.
COMMENT: That does not mean that once the soul is transferred into Christ that the person is manifested in full stature?
PASTOR VITALE: No, if I understood your question, no. We are entering into Christ in stages; I believe there are 3 stages. The first stage is that Satan has to be bound in the bottomless pit. To me that is full stature, when he is chained in the bottomless pit and cannot get out, when he is under the feet of Christ. Paul said, I wear this chain, meaning that it is Christ. When Christ in you has Satan down under so that he cannot ever get out, that is full stature. However, it is not being transferred into Christ, yet. Transferring into Christ is the next step; that is another step.
COMMENT: Fallen adam is transferred into Christ?
PASTOR VITALE: No our human spirit is transferred into Christ but before that can happen we have to get him down under the feet.
COMMENT: But fallen adam is nailed to Christ, is that right?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes
COMMENT: He is nailed to Christ?
PASTOR VITALE: Satan is nailed to Christ, yes. Satan is within fallen adam. Satan is the ruling spirit within fallen adam. The spirit of the Father is being nailed to Satan and then Christ is swallowing up our soul.
COMMENT: If fallen adam is nailed to Christ that means that they are together like that, is that right?
PASTOR VITALE: But they are not there yet, except in the man Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Before they are nailed together, he has got to get down under our feet. Did you ever see a movie or picture where you knock the giant down and step on his chest and then cut his head off? First we have to knock him down and step on his chest before we nail him. It is so hard to nail him when he is up there on top of us. First we have to knock him down, put our foot on his chest, and put the sword through him.
COMMENT: So you are saying getting into full stature happens in 3 stages?
PASTOR VITALE: Satan is first in the bottomless pit, and we are living one hundred percent of the time out of Christ. That is full stature. Then our soul has to be circumcised, that is the second step. The soul of Christ has to totally overshadow Satan and kill him, for all intents and purposes, kill him. I know there is a third step but it is not coming to me right now.
COMMENT: What about perfection?
PASTOR VITALE: We are in perfection when we stand up in full stature, when Satan is bound in the bottomless pit and is incapable of getting out. That is perfection. Well, I do not know whether that is perfection yet. It is full stature, but Satan is still alive. He has to be slain and he has to be crucified to Christ. At one point I thought there was a third step but I cannot recall it right now. There is a significant difference between having him down in the bottomless pit and being crucified to him. So long as he is just in the bottomless pit, I guess there is always a chance that he can get out, but with Jesus he never got out. With Jesus he never got out, but yes, there is always that possibility that he could slip out. So we have got to kill him. He has to be slain. We have to pierce him through, and then it is irreversible. From the time he is pierced through, it is irreversible. Do you understand what I said? When he is nailed it is irreversible. After he is crucified it is irreversible.
COMMENT: To Christ in him?
PASTOR VITALE: Right, that is irreversible. But we are in full stature before that, just by virtue of chaining him down in the bottomless pit with a strength that would say he can never get out. That is where Jesus was.
COMMENT: Will we be God and man at the same time? Like Jesus of Nazareth?
PASTOR VITALE: At which point?
COMMENT: When fallen adam or Satan is nailed to Christ, when I am nailed to Christ will I still have two sides, Christ and me?
PASTOR VITALE: I honestly do not know.
COMMENT: Christ and me, will I be God and man?
PASTOR VITALE: At that point you will be the new creation. Of the twain, he made one new man.
COMMENT: Just one man?
PASTOR VITALE: The two will become one at the crucifixion, no more doubled soul.
COMMENT: Will there be two sides to look at or just one?
PASTOR VITALE: To the best of my knowledge, I do not have a lot of information about that but I know the Scripture says that of the twain he made one new man. In crucifixion you shall be one, exactly what the manifestation will be, I do not know. The third step is when we come out of this natural body; that is what the third step is. Jesus brought Satan into submission, chained him in the bottomless pit, and circumcised his own soul in the garden. I thought he did it on the cross but we found out that he did it in the garden. The third step is that he came out of his body.
COMMENT: What tape is it on that we found out that it was in the garden?
PASTOR VITALE: I have been very lazy and have not been keeping records. I do not have a record of what tape it is on, but, Lord willing, I am going to be teaching that in the word-by-word in the near future. However, it is in one of the basic principles messages. You have all the basic principles tapes. I just touched on it lightly on one of the basic principles messages that we had at my house so it is one of the early ones. The Lord showed me some very exciting things. I was not going to say anything today because I am really hoping the Lord is going to let me teach it. I will just say this much.
He had me studying Lazarus’s resurrection and He showed me that when Jesus raised Jairus’s daughter and the widow’s son from the dead, he raised them back to their natural condition. However, when he raised Lazarus from the dead, he raised him in full stature. Do you understand what I said? I will say it again. When Jesus raised Jairus’s daughter from the dead and when he raised the widow’s son from the dead, he raised them from the dead and he restored them to the kind of life that they had before they died. When he raised Lazarus from the dead, Lazarus came forth in full stature. As I pulled those Greek words apart, it was very very exciting.
COMMENT: You mean he never died again?
PASTOR VITALE: I did not say that. Paul was in full stature and he was offered up. I do not know what happened to Lazarus afterwards, but I know that when he was raised from the dead he came forth in full stature. The Scripture said that he who was dead came forth bound hand and foot. I once saw a preacher put a little show in front of the congregation. He said he could not figure out how Lazarus could have come forth if his feet were all bound, so this preacher came to the conclusion that he hopped out of the cave. Well, he did not hop out of the cave. If you look up those words in the Greek, what it is saying is that his hands and his feet were bound. His soul was in total submission to Christ. If you look up all the other Greek words, the verse says his hands and his feet (typifying his fallen adamic spirit and soul) were bound in total submission to Christ and that Christ was manifesting, and covering him all over. It is very exciting. I am working on it. I will preach it as soon as the Lord lets me. I got very excited when I read that. I might as well tell you the rest of it.
Jesus said, Lazarus, come forth, which means incarnate again. That is the Greek word that means incarnate. Lazarus, incarnate, and then the next thing the Scripture says is, and the one who was dead came forth. It does not say, Lazarus came forth. As I studied it in the Greek, what it is really saying is this. Jesus addressed him as Lazarus for the crowd sake, but the one that came forth, according to the Scripture, was not Lazarus but it was the manifestation of the fallen adamic soul which came forth bound, hand and foot, in total submission to Christ. Did you hear what I said?
PASTOR VITALE: His personality had the name Lazarus, but the spiritual reality was that it was fallen adam that came forth in total submission to Christ. Hallelujah! It is very powerful. I have got chills all over me.
COMMENT: He said I am the resurrection.
PASTOR VITALE: Right.
COMMENT: I felt that those words were boomingly powerful. Lazarus, come forth!
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, he came forth in full stature.
COMMENT: I knew it was something like that because they were others that were raised from the dead, but…
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, but not in that condition. They were raised back to being natural people.
COMMENT: Who were the others raised up back to natural people?
PASTOR VITALE: Jairus’s daughter and the widow’s son.
COMMENT: Do you think this is why the Pharisees later became furious, when they wanted to kill Lazarus again?
PASTOR VITALE: To be honest with you I never thought of it, but it sounds right. I was reading that Scripture today that says they sought to kill Lazarus. It does not say they sought to kill Jairus’s daughter or they sought to kill the widow’s son, but they sought to kill Lazarus. He was in full stature.
COMMENT: They tried to kill him after he came back to life? He was sought after to be killed?
PASTOR VITALE: It says the Pharisees wanted to kill him.
COMMENT: That tells you even more that what you are saying is the truth.
PASTOR VITALE: The Scripture does not say very much about Lazarus after he was raised up. Maybe he was out there doing miracles too. We do not know what he was out there doing, but for them to try and kill him, I think it would have been obvious to them that he was in full stature. I know the Scripture says that the reason they wanted to kill him was that many believed because he was raised from the dead. But the Scripture does not say that many believed because Jairus’s daughter was raised. So it had to be evident in him that he was in full stature.
COMMENT: You say that his fallen adamic soul, or the whole fallen adamic soul, came forth? It could not have been the whole adamic soul….
PASTOR VITALE: It was in him.
COMMENT: His fallen adamic soul came forth?
PASTOR VITALE: In full submission. The Scripture says, begging, utterly hunched over and urgently in submission to the Spirit of God that was being reflected all over.
COMMENT: What does it mean then when it says that Jesus was the first fruit, first born from the dead?
PASTOR VITALE: He was the first to be raised from the dead. I think this is a very fine line, but I really think that full stature…. I really do not know if this is true, but when the Scripture says Jesus was the first begotten of the dead, I believe it was referring to his resurrection out of the body, out of the body resurrection. The resurrection is in stages. Everybody that is here is in the process of being resurrected. We are being resurrected in our mind. Our mind is being resurrected. We are starting to think with the mind of Christ. We stand up in full stature when Satan is chained in the bottomless pit. Then we slay Satan, and then we come out of the body. I believe that Jesus was the first one who was totally born out of the dead ones. To be totally born you have to come out of this body. This soul and this body is a womb. We are not completely born until we come out of this body. I am convinced of that.
COMMENT: When people say that we were with Jesus Christ of Nazareth two thousand years ago when he was slain on that cross, were we with him? Do you know what I am saying? Were we there? Where we there, being nailed to the cross with him?
PASTOR VITALE: No, not in that way. We were not nailed to the cross. We are being nailed to the cross now. It is happening to you now.
COMMENT: Were we with him at all?
PASTOR VITALE: We were with him in the same way that the Scripture says Levi paid tithes while he was still in Abraham to Melchisedec. Levi was a sperm in Abraham, and the Scripture says Levi was with Abraham and he paid tithes.
COMMENT: So then, that sperm got nailed to the cross? (Laughter)
PASTOR VITALE: No.
COMMENT: We were in him in that way? He had a fallen adamic soul and we were in that fallen adamic soul?
PASTOR VITALE: Technically, but not the way you are trying to say it. I have some writings. I pray that I get this computer in order because I have a lot of stuff that I want to give you. I have a writing on it. I will give it to you. We are all out of fallen adam. We are all in fallen adam, and as Christ comes forth in us, that drop of fallen adam that is in us must be crucified to the Christ in us, so that the whole fallen adamic soul can be crucified to Christ. We were not crucified to him when he hung on the cross. We were potentially crucified. Because He rose from the dead and His life is inside of you, He is going to do in you what He did in the man Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
COMMENT: Are you saying we were in His seed when we were in Him?
PASTOR VITALE: In his spiritual seed, yes.
COMMENT: And that seed got nailed to the cross?
PASTOR VITALE: It does not really work like that. Lord, just give it to me to explain to her so that she can understand it. Maybe it is me, I will try again. He was a man who had a fallen adamic soul and in whom the Christ dwelt and that Christ slew his fallen adamic soul? That resurrected glorified soul is now being sprinkled upon all mankind and a drop of it has gotten inside of you. You are a member of the fallen adamic soul. Jesus Christ of Nazareth was the first member of the fallen adamic soul who was crucified by Christ. Every member of the fallen adamic soul has to be crucified by Christ for the whole fallen adamic soul to be crucified to Christ. Can you hear that?
COMMENT: So I was not crucified with him?
PASTOR VITALE: No, you are being crucified now. You were potentially crucified in that if Jesus Christ did not rise from the dead he could not be in you now crucifying Satan. What happened on Golgotha hill was that the spiritual Christ crucified the first member of the fallen adamic soul but it has to happen to every member of the fallen adamic soul for the entire fallen adamic soul to be crucified to Christ.
COMMENT: I was thinking of it as being that I was in him, in his seed being crucified.
PASTOR VITALE: No. You have to be crucified. We are crucified with him but it is not a physical crucifixion. It is the crucifixion of your fallen adamic soul. He must come into submission to Christ. he must overcome it and after he overcomes it he is going to crucify it. When every human being on the face of the earth has their fallen adamic soul crucified by the Christ in them, he shall have put all enemies under his feet ,even the last enemy which is death.
COMMENT: And we will be resurrected.
PASTOR VITALE: At that point he is going to offer up the whole creation together, all the many members of fallen adam who have a crucified fallen adamic soul, are going to be offered up together to the Father and the creation is going to be spiritualised. We are going to become spirits.
COMMENT: And God will be all in all?
PASTOR VITALE: And God will be all in all, yes.
COMMENT: Paul was in full stature. Was that similar to Lazarus?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes.
COMMENT: These meetings are really spiritual.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, and I was saying, I do not want three tapes in a meeting, this is ridiculous, three tapes in a meeting. But how can I not put this on a tape, it is glorious.
COMMENT: I thank the Lord that He enabled me to somewhat repent of the feelings that I was having this week. I was therefore able to pray tonight on my way in to this meeting. The Lord anointed me to pray that the Lord will anoint you in whatever you were going to preach. I prayed that you preach or you speak of the things that Jesus wants tonight, and I prayed that He anoints the meeting. I do not know if I would have thought of it if I had not started earlier in the week dealing with those things that the Lord was saying and repenting of them. I know if we have something against someone in our heart, it may not come to our mind to pray for them. I thank God that these meetings bring forth such spiritual things.
PASTOR VITALE: I feel like we are closing unless someone else has a question. I feel we are closing.
COMMENT: That was really good about Lazarus.
PASTOR VITALE: Is it not exciting?
COMMENT: Yes, I always felt that. I got so excited about that for some reason. Did he have grave clothes on at all?
PASTOR VITALE: I do not know what he had on. That is not the significance of it. It is what he was covered in. I cannot remember exactly what my notes say. That Greek word that is translated grave clothes….
COMMENT: You are saying that he came forth hunched over ?
PASTOR VITALE: Not physically. Spiritually, his fallen adamic soul was hunched over in total (the Scripture says) urgent submission to Christ and that he was glowing with Christ.
COMMENT: It is wonderful.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes
COMMENT: He knew that Lazarus was going to die, and he waited four days? He could have gone earlier.
PASTOR VITALE: Right.
COMMENT: Can you imagine? He knew we were going to die.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes
COMMENT: He knew we were going to die. I am so excited.
PASTOR VITALE: I cannot remember what the word translated grave clothes mean but where it is said that his face was covered with a napkin, it means that his outward appearance was totally knit together with the Spirit of God. He must have been glowing. It must have been similar to Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration.
COMMENT: That is so exciting. That is why Jesus had to put them off and wait until he was good and dead. He had to wait until four days, and even his sister said, he stinketh. He allowed that. He wants to get the glory. Praise God.
COMMENT: That could be said for the whole creation. He wanted to get the glory. He allowed them to die.
PASTOR VITALE: That is why he allows people to die. Nobody really dies. There is just one spiritual man, and he is the Living soul. He died when he fell (fallen adam) but he is going to be resurrected. His flesh has gone back to the lump of clay and it is going to be reformed. In the last generation, every drop of that clay is going to be formed into vessels of honour and be filled with Christ. The whole living soul shall be saved but not all the individual personalities that ever lived would be resurrected. It is just like saying (and I have said it before) that the person that existed at 10 years old, and at 5 years and at 6 months old, is never seen again. What endures for the majority of your life is your maturity, you as an adult. That is what is happening in Christ.
We have to grow up spiritually and we have to let go of our childishness. Our spiritual childishness wants to say that the personality that we have in this lifetime did some wonderful great things and it is going to be remembered, and that is not true. The spiritual man, fallen adam, is going to be resurrected from the dead and this lifetime that we live in these bodies and have these personalities, is just an experience that fallen adam is having. It is an experience that fallen adam is having and it is going to pass. As I have said on the other tapes, it can be likened to our 10 year old child or 15 year old experience. If we can just get past this carnality that we want our individual personality resurrected, we will see how exciting it is.
(Everyone is getting deliverance tonight, praise the Lord).
COMMENT: What happened to our dead loved ones?
PASTOR VITALE: What happened to your dead loved ones? Their spirit went back into Christ and the soul when back into the lump and at that last day that lump is going to be formed totally into vessels of honour, and it is going to be filled with Christ. That is what happened to your dead loved ones, but their personality has not been resurrected. You have got to step on your pride. This is so glorious. Praise the Lord! It is so exciting, and all these people say, what do you mean? You are going to live in the next generation? Is that not what Jesus is doing? He gave up his glorified soul life that came forth when Jesus Christ of Nazareth was raised up from the dead and He is living in us, the next generation.
He has got a whole world full of new bodies and new souls. Except that there are people out there who think that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is coming back but they are going to find out that He is not. That body and that personality are not coming back. Just as Elijah was living in John the Baptist (if you can receive it), Christ is living in you, but he is not yet in full stature. The man Jesus is not coming back. Christ is coming back, the Lord is coming back, but not the man, Jesus Christ of Nazareth. There is no Scripture that says He is coming back. Christ is coming back. Christ is the anointed one. He is the resurrected, glorified Christ that was in the man Jesus.
COMMENT: I have heard them say in regular Churches that Christ is not coming back as a man, he is coming back as King.
PASTOR VITALE: In other men, in other personalities. It is right there if you can just get past your carnal mind. Jesus said, This is Elijah, if you can receive it. The only thing about John the Baptist that was like Elijah was his spiritual ministry. The only thing about any of you or me that is like Christ is the spiritual ministry. When you come up against a Christian and there is nothing of Christ in them, He is not resurrected in them. He has got to be resurrected in us. He has got to be living in us and through us to save our soul. It is not by dancing in the Church. There is nothing wrong with dancing but that is not a sign that He is living in you. He has got to be thinking in you and relating to other people out of a righteousness that is Christ. Glory to God. I think we are going to close unless anybody has any other thing to say. Do you want prayer?
I destroy this carnal mind in the name of Jesus. I curse you at your root. I command you to break up into spirit and soul and go back so that the soul can be separated from the spirit. Let Christ rise up from the depths of her unconscious mind and be her mind. And may the judgement of her soul continue. You said you would not give her more than she can bear, Lord, but judge that soul Oh God and let it reflect Christ, I pray. Speak to her husband, Father, and let him not be a hindrance to whatever you will have her to do, but be glorified in her and be blessed. Open her mind to understand these tapes, Lord. She is laboring in this doctrine, father. I pray that you do not leave her ashamed, Oh God, but that you open up her mind to everything that is true, that is in this doctrine, and that you do not let her miss a thing, Father. I pray that you be glorified in her and that you be sanctified in her, and that she just be blessed, Lord, from the top of her head to the bottom of her toes, in the name of Jesus.
COMMENT: I cannot get into the Bible these days the way I was doing before. I just listen to the tapes.
PASTOR VITALE: If it is God, do not resist it. There is an anointing on the tapes that is destroying your carnal mind and once your carnal mind is broken down to enough point, you would go back into the Bible, but you would understand it with the spirit. When you are in the Bible now, you are getting the letter. If it is God, if he is doing it, yield to it. Listen to the tapes. Let it destroy your carnal mind. He will bring you back to the Bible. Do not worry about it.
COMMENT: I would like prayer too.
I curse this carnal mind. I curse you at your root. Every torment that you have put upon her, and every thought by which you have taken her away from Christ, I command that double should be put back on you in the thoughts of Christ. I cancel your plan and I declare to you that you will not possess this mind but she shall be a vessel that shall manifest Christ. Your days are numbered; start counting down until you break up, in the name of Jesus. Hallelujah. Glory to God. The Lord has said she shall be an obedient servant and the word of the Lord shall prevail over her life. You have no power against Christ. Come down and be chained in the name of Jesus. I just rebuke this infirmity, whatever it might be Father. We petition you for a healing but we submit it to you, Lord. If for any reason there is a chance that you are using it to break her, then so be it. You promised her that you will not give her more than she can bear, Lord. But if that is not what you are doing, we rebuke this infirmity and we curse it at its root. And in accordance with the will of the Lord and the timing of the Lord, we ask for a complete healing in the name of the Jesus.
COMMENT: Thank you Jesus. I have another request. I want to be cleansed from hatred, unforgiveness and bitterness.
Hatred, unforgiveness, and bitterness, we curse you at your root. You are all manifestations of the carnal mind and of the natural man. You have no place in this woman. You have no place in this woman….
01/25/09mml Final edit