The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For
Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation
By The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.

 

COMMENT: I was listening to a message recently, it may have been "Love or Lust" (LEM Message #82). Maybe it was "All Ye Adulterers and Adulteresses" (LEM Message #76), it was message about relationships and in particular about fornication.

 

You were talking about divorce. And you were saying that,  a lot of people have thought that that Scripture in Matthew that says you do not divorce except for fornication, a lot of people have thought that that means adultery because they felt fornication meant sex before marriage.

 

Matt 19:9

9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.   KJV

 

Well, if you are married to someone, and Jesus says you do not get divorced except for fornication. That does not make sense. You cannot fornicate; you are in a marriage. It would be adultery. But He does not say adultery.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Amen. Good point.

 

COMMENT: And so, in the message, you were saying, this does not mean that you can divorce someone because one of the party commits adultery, but you are to restore them. What are you to do?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, I really do not remember what I said in that message. But I will give you what is in my heart, which should be in line with the message.

 

If you are married, and your husband (or if you are a man, your wife) commits one act of adultery, although Jesus says you can divorce for adultery, He really means for compulsive, unrepentant, repetitive adultery. If somebody has one act of adultery, that does not even make them an adulterer. They had a weak moment; they slipped. You are to forgive them and to restore them with your love.

 

However, if they refuse to repent, if they look you right in the eye, as in a situation that I recently heard of last week, where the man has been having an affair (both people, the man and woman, are born again), and the man has been having an affair with another born-again woman for 12 years, and he was just discovered, and told his wife, I will come home, but I will not give her up. I will not give my girlfriend up. That is grounds for divorce. That is unrepentant, repetitious adultery that is still going on. That is grounds for divorce.

 

COMMENT: Oh, you did not say that in the message.

 

PASTOR VITALE: What did I say in the message?

 

COMMENT: But if that is what you are saying now, and you feel that is of the Lord…

 

PASTOR VITALE: Yes.

 

COMMENT: In the message, maybe it was "All Ye Adulterers and Adulteresses" (LEM Message # 76), I am not sure which one it was. But what you were saying really blessed me, because a lot of people have been pretty legalistic about this, that if one falls, you can just leave them. If one of the partner falls, you leave them; divorce them. But you blessed me by saying this. It seemed like, to me, it was compassion from the Lord that you restore that person, and you pray for them, and you forgive them, and you try to restore them, stand behind them and pray for them.

 

But then you said that that was not grounds for divorce, but that the divorce was grounds; you had grounds for divorce because of fornication. And it says, "except for fornication". It sounds like, to me, in the case of fornication, you can divorce.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Oh, I see what you are saying.

 

COMMENT: This is what you said. That fornication (I always wondered what this meant. And I thought it meant adultery, I grew up under that teaching. But now I believe it means what you said). It is in fornication. And you said, in the Greek, it means "ungodly sex acts."

 

Well, I think you said, on the message, ungodly sex acts. You were real strong on, if they are forcing you into ungodly sex acts.  You said, this is very ungodly that the man beats the woman and has a fight with her and then goes to bed with her. You said, this is a very ungodly, unnatural lust. And then you said that, if the man is ungodly towards the children, ungodly sex acts, incest, towards the children, then you said, you go then and get your divorce.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Amen.

 

COMMENT: And that is what you said this fornication is.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, if you look up the Greek word that is translated "fornication," it does not mean what the English word "fornication" means. In English, the word "fornication" means sexual intercourse, normal sexual intercourse, male to female, outside of marriage. But the Greek word that is translated "fornication" means "unnatural sex acts," which include sex outside of marriage, incest, sadomasochistic sex, oral sex.

 

COMMENT: Now, what is sadomasochistic?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Sadomasochistic sex. Sadism is a condition of one's soul whereby he gets a thrill or excited from hitting or from hurting somebody, from causing pain in somebody. And masochism is a deformity of the soul whereby one gets excitement or enjoyment out of being hurt.

 

And usually, in a sick couple, one of them is sadistic; he or she likes to do the hurting. And the other party, the other member of the couple, likes to be hurt. And you find that, in some cases, two people with deformities or sicknesses in their soul will get together, and they will be the opposite sides of one coin. One will like to hurt, and the other will like to be hurt.

 

And sometimes, these conditions are very extreme. And you have people that will cut somebody or really beat somebody severely. But sometimes, we have sadomasochism, and it is very mild. And it is so mild that the people do not recognize it.

 

People who are involved in this, if you stop to think about the conditions that result in you having sexual intercourse with your husband or wife; if you have this problem, and you are honest with yourself, you will say, Well, gee, every time we want to have sex, we have a fight first. This is a very mild manifestation of sadomasochism. And it is. You need to repent and ask God for deliverance.

 

But getting back to divorce. If a man or a woman has one adulterous encounter, I say that is not grounds for divorce. If the person repents and is willing to go to God for deliverance, I maintain that you have no grounds for divorce. However, if the person committing adultery is involved in an ongoing, continuous adultery and they will not repent; they will not give up their partner, then this becomes fornication, an ungodly sex act. And at that point, it becomes grounds for divorce.

 

Did I answer your question?

 

COMMENT: Yes.

 

PASTOR VITALE: OK.

 

COMMENT: Would you explain “all ungodly sex acts”? How can we know how to stay away from them, how to be cleansed from them, recognize all of them? So we have got this sadistic thing, we can recognize it. This does happen all the time.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Yes.

 

COMMENT: So that is a common thing in marriages.

 

PASTOR VITALE: That people fight in order to get into sexual encounters with one another. A lot of married couples need that.

 

COMMENT: And in the back of their mind is, really, that they want to go to bed with them.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Right.

 

COMMENT: But the other one might not be stimulated or something, so they start a fight?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Right.

 

COMMENT: OK.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Either one or both members of the couple need the argument to get stimulated.

 

COMMENT: I think it is really important, at this time, in this hour, that we become wise about these things because I think it is one of the biggest problems in the Church world today, fornication.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Yes.

 

COMMENT: But they did not know what it was. I had this little thought that was fed to me from the pulpit. It is sex before marriage.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Right.

 

COMMENT: Now, it is beginning to broaden. I am beginning to see this sin, and it is in my life. I am asking God to cleanse me and correct me and to show me any areas. These sins can be on the family line. I believe it is on my family line.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Amen.

 

COMMENT: And it has desired to manifest in my life. I have resisted it. But would you explain every fornication act that is ungodly, how to recognize it and be cleansed of it?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, I do not know that I am aware of every act, but I will share with you what I know. And basically, what I am going to say is going to be booed at and hissed by the world. But I believe that it is the truth of God.

 

Now, going back 100 years ago, maybe even 60 years ago, when it came to sexual activity, there was something known as the missionary position. And it got this name, and it is referring to the position of the husband and wife during sexual intercourse, with the wife being in a passive position underneath and the male being in the aggressive position on top and aggressively pursuing the sexual act.

 

It received the name, the missionary position, because the missionaries, or religious Christians of that hour. And the missionaries were serving God to the best of their ability, hopefully. That was the implication, that was the only position that they would use when engaging in sexual intercourse.

 

And in this hour, we find the whole world, the marriage counselors, the psychologists, everybody that has the wisdom of the world, telling you, well, you get bored with your husband and wife after being married for five years or 10 years, so change the position. Let the woman get on top. And there are all different kinds of positions that you could engage in.

 

And I am suggesting to you that these different positions are ungodly. If you have a marriage, and one member of the marriage is pressing the other member to change positions, I am suggesting to you that you have a right to resist them, that it is ungodly.

 

And why is it ungodly? Because God has sanctified sexual intercourse in marriage, and He has elevated it to the higher realm of God. When we start engaging in different positions because we need to be stimulated sexually, that means that we are no longer being stimulated by love for one another. What is our stimulation? Position? Pornographic movies? Lust? We are not supposed to be engaging in sexual relations as the animals engage in it. We are higher than the animals.

 

And sexual intercourse is supposed to be an expression of love, of a godly love, which raises up the act to a position where it is acceptable by God. But if a love for that person is no longer stimulating us, but if it is a pornographic movie, if it is a different position, what we are saying is, what is causing us to engage in this activity is an animal lust within us. And it really does not matter whether it is with your wife or with your girlfriend or with a prostitute on the street. Now, if that is the case, you are yielding to the lower animal nature of your body, which is supposed to be resisted.

 

It is another way of saying sex is “The marriage bed”. Paul said the marriage bed is not defiled. To have sexual intercourse outside of marriage, you are defiled. What does that mean? You are reaping curses and judgments unto yourself. Well, within marriage, there is a legal way to have sexual intercourse and an illegal way to have it. So it is the same act if it is outside of marriage or if it is inside of marriage. Why is it defiled in one case and not in the other? Because God said, in marriage, it is not defiled.

 

Heb 13:4

4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.   KJV

 

God is dealing with motives. And if your motive for having sexual intercourse, if it is an expression of your love for your wife, then it is acceptable to God. But if you are feeding lust, you cannot feed lust just because you are married. It is not OK to come home after a bad day in the office and just go to bed with your wife because it releases the tension. Brethren, your tension is to be released by turning to God. Can you hear this?

 

COMMENT: Yes.

 

PASTOR VITALE: I know you are not a married woman, but that is the truth.

 

COMMENT: I have heard that a lot.

 

PASTOR VITALE: That men do that.

 

COMMENT: By professionals.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Yes.

 

COMMENT: They will say that it is a good thing to do. It is healthy to release that tension in sex. Sex is good to release tension. That is what they say.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, that is what the animals do, brethren. They release tension by having sex. Sons of God release tension by turning to Jesus. Hallelujah. Glory to God.

 

COMMENT: I wanted to mention about the divorce thing and the fornication in Matthew that is mentioned. I heard one person say that they felt that, except for fornication; when they searched it back in the Greek, and even further back in some books that explained it, in the Greek and even if it means "fornication," they are saying it does not mean "except for fornication." That word actually means, in the Greek, "even if it means fornication, you are not to divorce." In other words, there are no grounds for divorce at all. Even in the case of fornication, there is no grounds for divorce.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, I think that person thought it meant adultery. And in the case of adultery, now I feel different about it, that if you can restore that person and help them to repent and come back into the marriage, do that. Do not divorce.

 

COMMENT: But about the other, you are saying that it does mean "in the case of fornication." What do you think of that? You know, that they felt they looked back in the Greek, and that it meant that Jesus was saying, Even if means fornication, you do not.

 

PASTOR VITALE: There are no grounds for divorce, ever. Is that what your question is? What do I have to say about that?

 

COMMENT: Yes. But that does not mean that. That word, "except."

 

PASTOR VITALE: In other words, let me just understand your question. You are saying that there are some believers that say that there are never any grounds for divorce, ever, and that if you should feel things are severe enough to leave your husband, you should be alone for the rest of your life. And what are my comments on that way of thinking?

 

COMMENT: Yes.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Is that your question?

 

That is a very legalistic attitude that can cause great pain and torment to God's people who are trying to live a godly life before him. Sometimes, we have Christians who are perverted. And sometimes, you have a married couple, and one is born again, and the other is not. But there are a lot of born-again people that have a lot of perversion within them that they have not been delivered of.

 

And, brethren, if your husband is committing incest with your children, and he will not repent and cease from that activity, you pack up your kids, and you get out.

 

COMMENT: Maybe the ones believing that knew that you were not talking about adultery. You were talking about ungodly sex acts. If they knew the Greek meaning of the "fornication," maybe they would have a better understanding. To me, this lifted me up to a higher understanding of it.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Amen.

 

COMMENT: But to just say "except for fornication"; that word "except" means, even if it means fornication, you do not divorce.

 

PASTOR VITALE: No. I have to disagree with that.

 

COMMENT: It does not really mean that.

 

PASTOR VITALE: You see, the Lord knows the condition of the human race. He knows that even the people that are now part of His Church, that are born again; He knows the sin that dwelleth in our soul, and He is a loving God. He is a loving God. I think that every effort should be made to bring the person that is offending to repentance.

 

Sister, if your husband is insisting that you have oral sex with him, if he is insisting and pressuring you and fighting with you over it, and you have prayed about it and prayed about it; if he is forcing it on you, sister, you have a right to go before the Lord and ask him to release you for divorce. Say, Lord, are you going to deal with this man? Look at what he is forcing me into. Are you going to deal with him? Or do you want me to leave him? We should always ask the Lord before we go. But that is legal grounds for divorce.

 

COMMENT: The other thing is, you said that, whether in marriage or out of marriage, masturbation could be fornication. Is this so?

 

PASTOR VITALE: I believe so. I believe, again, that fornication refers to any unclean act. And I believe that masturbation is an act of idolatry, sort of in the same way that homosexuality is. Paul says that they turned away from the Creator, and they worshipped the things of man. And they fell into ungodly practices, one man lusting after another. Well, it is just as bad to lust after yourself because... what is masturbation? It is a lust of the flesh...

 

COMMENT: Yes, it is.

 

PASTOR VITALE: ...that we are yielding to. It is not rooted in any form of affection or love, which is the sexual activity that is acceptable to God, when it is joined to love and affection. Otherwise, we are living as brute beasts.

 

COMMENT: Yes, I believe it is not acceptable to God.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Is that not what Romans 1 says?

 

COMMENT: I believe that now.

 

PASTOR VITALE: That is what Romans 1 says.

 

COMMENT: Yes.

 

PASTOR VITALE: "And they started acting like brute beasts." Let me see if I can find it. It is Romans 1, is it not? Are you familiar with the Scripture?

 

COMMENT: I will tell you, I have compassion on those that fall into that trap, because God is showing me. He is giving me compassion.

 

PASTOR VITALE: OK.

 

COMMENT: I used to have a mentality about it. How could anybody fall into it? It is gross. And now God is saying that it is a common thing, and that He has compassion on these people that fall into that trap. But it really is a trap. It is a trap.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Yes. Here it is. Let me read this Scripture to you.

 

It is in Romans 1, and it says -- Verse 21: "Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful, but became vain in their imaginations and their foolish heart was darkened."

 

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools." We have all these marriage counselors in the world saying, Oh, it is wonderful. Fornicate, masturbate, try ungodly positions, use pornography, use surrogate sexual partners. They became wise. But God says they became fools.

 

Verse 23: "And they changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image." They took this body that God said could be revealing the glory of God, and they turned it into an image made like to corruptible man. They made a natural man out of it. "And to birds and four-footed beasts and creeping things." All of these teachings and thinking processes are bringing us down to the level of animal, not a creation that is higher than the animals.

 

Verse 24: "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness." Now, these are people who no longer think that their body, that their life, is revealing the glory of God, but they are on the level of animals. And I have even heard people who are supporting this kind of ungodly behavior, saying, well, animals have homosexual activity, and animals have oral sex, and we are just mammals like they are. So why should we not do it too? Because we are not animals, brethren. We are higher than animals.

 

COMMENT: Animals do have oral sex?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Certain animals do. But we are not animals, brethren. We are the creation that reveals the glory, that is made to reveal the glory of God. We are above the animals, And, therefore, we are subject to the law of God. The animals are not subject to the law of God, neither can they be subject to it. They have no understanding.

 

So in verse 24: "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts." Brethren, if you yield to the lust of your flesh, you shall be given over to uncleanness. It may not be uncleanness for animals, but it is uncleanness for you.  And the result of it is that you shall be as the animals. Choose ye. "To dishonor their own bodies between themselves."

 

"Who changed the truth of God into a lie and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator." Brethren, when you masturbate or when you engage in sexual activity that satisfies the lusts of your flesh, not a love for another human being but a lust for your flesh, the Lord says that you are worshipping the creature. You are worshipping the body that your spiritual life dwells in.

 

Verse 26: "For this cause, God gave them up unto vile affections, for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature."

 

Now, brethren, everybody I have ever heard preach this preaches it as lesbianism, but it does not say that. It says that the women gave up the natural use into that which is against nature. And I suggest to you that God did not make your body to masturbate any more than He made your body to be engaged in lesbian activity. Any unnatural sexual activity is against nature.

 

Verse 27: "And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

 

COMMENT: And that is talking about homosexuality.

 

PASTOR VITALE: That is homosexuality. But to be honest with you, I would really like to look up those words because,  we did some studies in Genesis where it talks about daughters and sons of God. And when you look those words up in the Hebrew, it is the same word. And it really just means offspring of God.

 

So I would have to do a further study on that. When it says "men working"..."men with men," I would like to check that word out myself.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Did you have a question?

 

COMMENT: But what you are saying, though, is still that masturbation is another form of lesbianism.

 

PASTOR VITALE: It is. It is another form of homosexuality.

 

COMMENT: It is self-lesbianism.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Right.

 

COMMENT: I mean, it is...

 

PASTOR VITALE: It is even worse.

 

COMMENT: It is masturbation. It is fornication.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Right. It is even worse because what Satan would do, if he had his way; and Satan is what? The spirit that rules in the natural man. He would have you be utterly corrupted and perverse. Now, what has God ordained? That man should lie with woman in a high form of love and affection, produce a family that should be a stable support for every member of that family, that should nourish, that should provide, that should be godly and that should produce the fruit of God's Spirit. That is what God says.

 

Satan says, Oh, no. Oh, no. Do not have children. Do not have sexual intercourse as a result of love or affection. Yield to the lusts of your flesh. Just use one another. Pick up someone in a bar.

 

Brethren, all of this is one step away. If you are having sex with your wife because you have tension, you are just one step away of picking up a woman in a bar or masturbating. What do you need her for? What you are doing is getting satisfaction for your own lust.

 

And eventually, what happens to them is that they wind up isolated. You see, you are no longer looking at that woman because you care for you. You are looking at her for a selfish reason. Then you decide that you do not need her anymore. It is okay to masturbate because all you want is the feeling. And the ultimate end of a person that falls into this pit is that they find themselves utterly isolated and totally alone without loving, godly relationships in their life, and they frequently become destroyed in their minds.

 

COMMENT: Reprobate?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Utterly reprobate, incapable of having godly relationships, totally selfish, turned inward, only concerned with themselves.

 

Now, brethren, I am going to put this on the message. It is a little gross. But since this is the way the message is going, I am going to put it on. Brethren, do you know that, in New York City, in Manhattan, in the areas that are known for sexual reprobateness, and more so in homosexual areas, although it does exist in heterosexual areas. Do you know that there are clubs that these men can go to (now, this is strictly for the men) where they walk into a room where there is a wall, and there are holes in the wall? And there are men on one side of the wall, and men on the other side of the wall. And they have sexual intercourse with a wall between them. Did you know this?

 

They want no love. They want no affection. They want no communication. They want to do something with their body that will gratify them, without the necessity of a relationship. Why? A relationship can be painful. A relationship requires compromise. Sometimes you have arguments in relationships. All that they want is the release of their tension.

 

When it comes to the heterosexual life, there are clubs in Manhattan, and, I guess, across the world, where you come in, and you wear a mask, and you pair off with somebody. And nobody knows who they are with because everybody is wearing a mask. And you have sexual relationships, and you leave that gathering, and you never see the person again. It is total selfishness. It is animalistic. This is what animals do.

 

And then again, some animals are even higher than that. There are a lot of animals that live in families, that have offspring and stay with their mate for the rest of their life. But there are many animals that will just have sexual intercourse and move on. This is pure animal behavior. We are not animals. We are souls. God has raised us higher than the animals. We are souls, and we are not to have sexual activity without our soul being involved, which is our emotions. And these people are having sexual activity without involving their soul.

 

And the human race is falling. Although it used to be at this condition, it was raised up when Christianity came upon the earth. But in this country, which was established as a Christian nation, we are spiraling down as men and woman no longer seek to engage in sexual activity on the soul realm, but we seek to engage in it on the pure animal realm. And as we continue to descend, the result of it is total reprobateness.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Did I make that clear?

 

COMMENT: Yes.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Glory to God.

 

COMMENT: One question, you said sex should be motivated when you feel love for one another. Anything other than that to stimulate one another for sex; like a fight, positions, or something to enter in through the eye gate, like pornography; this becomes fornication?

 

PASTOR VITALE: I believe so. It is an unclean sexual activity. Yes.

 

COMMENT: OK.

 

PASTOR VITALE: I believe that. I would just like to read this last verse in Romans, verse 1:28.

 

Romans 1:28: "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge." And what is the retention of God? God is saying you are higher than an animal. Sex should be on the soul realm. And because they would not retain that in their knowledge, "God gave them over to a reprobate mind to do those things which are not convenient."

 

And this is what happened to them. They became "filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity, whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection."

 

Brethren, if you start on this spiral downward; you could have a loving relationship with your wife. And if you start into pornography and oral sex and anal sex, because you think it is OK and it is the thing to do, it is activity that will drag you down to the level of animal. It will unseat you from your godly position in the soul realm in this area. And you shall become without natural affection, the implication being that, when you find yourself without natural affection, you shall not be able to find within you anymore natural affection.

 

You cannot go back and forth. You cannot have sex with your wife one day because you love her, and the next day because you have got an itch. If you yield to that itch, it is going to drag you down to a place where you will no longer want her because of love, but you will be responding to your animal instincts. Did I make that clear?

 

COMMENT: Yes. It says, in the Scripture, in verse 32, "Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same but have pleasure in them that do them."

 

All this, verses 29 through 32, it is saying, verse 29: "Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication..." So this, all of these things are worthy of death. If someone is in fornication, whether they are married or whether they are not, it does not matter. It is fornication. They are ungodly sex acts. If they are in ungodly sex acts, they are worthy of death.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Right. Well, when we break God's law, the judgment is death. That is what that means, that you are worthy of death.

 

COMMENT: So is that the same thing as when God said, "If you partake of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, in dying, you shall die"? Eventually, that person is going to die.

 

PASTOR VITALE: They are going to die spiritually. You see, if you are in Christ, and you start getting involved in all these things, you shall die spiritually. And eventually; it may not come for several generations, but on your family line, you shall die. And what does that mean? It means that, as the judgment is fulfilled, if there is no repentance coming forth, and forgiveness of sins, if you do not have this understanding, somewhere along the line, your offspring will cease from reproducing. There will be no more offspring, and you shall die.

 

COMMENT: I feel that this sin that is carried down through the family line; I believe this is what the sin is that causes us to die. Is this true?

 

PASTOR VITALE: All sin causes us to die, not just sexual sin.

 

COMMENT: Say, well, did they have sex in the very beginning, before they ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil?

 

PASTOR VITALE: I do not think they had bodies like we have in that hour. That was spiritual fornication. But, first it happened in the spiritual, and then it happened in the natural. It played itself out in this realm of appearance.

 

But sin is much more than sexual sin. It is anything that is not of God. Sin is anything that is not of God. It is idolatry. It is loving ourselves more than we love God.

 

Now, we know one of the Ten Commandments says, "Thou shalt love the Lord, thy God, with all thy heart and thy mind and thy soul." And because people do not have understanding, we hear them saying, Well, I do. And then they go out and do something that is totally selfish. Brethren, all selfishness is the direct opposite of the love of God.

 

COMMENT: Is it true that those that get married and have sex have a better understanding of their true self than those that are single? Or is that not the truth?

 

PASTOR VITALE: I have never heard of anything like that. I do not see what one thing has to do with the other.

 

I want to tell you, brethren, the Scripture clearly states, and I can hear them screaming in the realm of the spirit. What I am preaching is not popular, brethren. But Paul clearly states that it is a good thing not to marry. Now, you have your choice. I am not against marriage. But Paul says, if you should choose not to marry, or if the Lord should choose you not to marry, it is a good thing.

 

COMMENT: Do you feel that, if the person abstains from marriage or, in a sexual relationship that comes with marriage, that they can obtain a higher spirituality?

 

PASTOR VITALE: I do not really know. I just know that we are supposed to serve God. And if he calls us to marry and have children, maybe we could be bringing forth one of the Sons that he is going to appear in. Well, that is the glory that He has called us to. And we have to be very careful not to get into all of this carnality and idolatry. What we are striving for is total obedience to God and whatever He calls us to do. And if we do something of our own heart, then everything is for naught.

 

If He calls you to marry and produce a son, and you do not because you think it is fine to not marry, you are utterly defeating God's purpose in your life. But if He calls you to a high spiritual calling which does not include marriage, and you insist on getting married, you have the same sin. It is the same sin as not getting married when He tells you to get married. We just have to do what He tells us. Can you hear that?

 

COMMENT: Yes. How can you tell when God has called you to marry or when He has called you to be single?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, the way I would tell is that I would pray continuously every time the thought came to my mind. Father, your perfect will in my life. In particular, with this issue, if you want me to get married, produce the man. If you do not want me to get married, then give me a peace about it, and give me dominion over any sexual feelings that are causing me distress.

 

Because, I declare to you, if God has called you to be a eunuch for Christ, He has not called you to discomfort. I do not believe that. If Jesus has said there is such a thing as a eunuch for Christ, he does not mean that you shall be single and be in torment. He has called us to peace.

 

And I suggest to you that the ultimate that the Scripture suggests is that the only sexual activity that is legal is that which comes forth from genuine affection. And if you are not married, brother and sister, who are you having that kind of affection for?

 

Therefore, if you lust for sexual activity within marriage or without marriage, aside from genuine affection for the person that you are engaging in it with, you are manifesting lust. And that is sin, within marriage or without marriage.

 

COMMENT: Where is the border? If one of the parties is manifesting lust, are they... first of all, are they likely to manifest these fights to get you stimulated or manifest some provocative thing? Are they likely to do that because of lust?

 

PASTOR VITALE: It depends on the person. Some people watch pornography. Others get into fights. Others are loving about it, but it is still lust because it is a contrived situation.

 

Someone, a husband or a wife, might have it in their mind that they want sexual activity that night, and they will deliberately, go out to seduce their partner without a genuine affection. They are making the dinner; they are lighting the candles; they are lowering the lights, not because they want an encounter with the one that they love but because their body is screaming for sexual activity. And they know that, if they do these things, they will get it. That is a wrong motive, brethren. It is a wrong motive.

 

COMMENT: But it is not worthy of divorce.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Definitely not, because most people do not even understand this. I mean, this whole message is for people that are called to a very high realm in the spirit. Because the average person would just not comprehend what we are talking about here.

 

COMMENT: You are saying that fighting is borderline fornication.

 

PASTOR VITALE: If it happens all the time. If you cannot have sexual intercourse without fighting, something is wrong.

 

COMMENT: Where is the line, then, for divorce? That you know that it is time for divorce, and that the fornication has gone over the line?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, I would think that you would have had to have spent quite a while, several years, praying about it, speaking to your partner about it, trying to make him aware of it. And the bottom line is that you do not get divorced until Jesus tells you to do it. You go before him, and you could say, Lord, I have been praying for six years. And the only time this man wants intercourse with me is when we have a fight, and I have a revelation that it is ungodly. And I have prayed, and I have prayed.

 

And more than praying, you would have to communicate with him. You would have to say, Husband, I believe I have prayed about this. And I believe that there is something ungodly stimulating your sexual desire for me. You have to start a fight with me every time in order to have intercourse with me. You have to make him aware of it. You have to talk to him about it. You have to pray for him, ask him if he will join you in prayer.

 

And then, finally, you can say to him, Look, I am not going to enforce this in you. If you want to have sex with me after you start a fight with me, I am not going to agree to it anymore because I am convinced it is ungodly. And if you want to have sex with me, I want you to be nice to me first.

 

You have to take your stand. You have to resist what you believe to be ungodly. And go to God continuously. I would not give up except for after years. And even then, God has to say, Give up on him.

 

COMMENT: If one of the partners is in pornography, is that grounds for divorce?

 

PASTOR VITALE: It is grounds for divorce. But again, you should talk to them. Try to make them aware that it is not godly. Pray for them.

 

COMMENT: What if they will not talk to you about it, or they resist you, or they even deny it?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, then, you go in prayer. And at some point, the bottom line is you have to hear it from God, whether He wants you to stick it out or whether He wants you to divorce them. But what you can do is refuse to have sex with your husband after you know that he has been in the bathroom reading his girly magazines.

 

COMMENT: Now, if they are not forceful with you;  say they want you to have oral sex, one of the parties. But they are not forceful about it. They drop it. If you say no, they drop it. How do you restore yourself to a godly thinking towards them?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, you have to forgive them. You have to forgive them and understand that they (especially in today's Church) probably do not even know that it is wrong. The basic rules of living in God's kingdom are always the same. We must forgive.

 

COMMENT: Yes.

 

PASTOR VITALE: And if we cannot forgive, we have to ask the Lord to give us His ability to forgive.

 

COMMENT: Yes.

 

PASTOR VITALE: We must communicate with the party. We must tell them what we know that they do not know. Or if they fall because we have not told them, their blood is on our hands. And we must tell them in a godly spirit, not in a fight. We must say, Dear, I believe it is wrong, and this is why, and I will not engage with you in this activity. I believe it is ungodly. And then you start praying for the person and see where God leads you.

 

COMMENT: Now, if the person has had these sins in their bodies for years, and they have been brought up in a Christian atmosphere and been taught that they are wrong, and they resist them, but yet it is still in their flesh, is it possible that... I mean, is this true that the sin... I mean, it could be there, and the religious spirits are just covering it and keeping them in torment all the while. And they are not free.

 

If they begin to manifest these spirits, they are condemned. If it goes into fornication or masturbation or whatever, then they find out that it was really there. And all their pharisaical-ness just drops. Like, well, I am just as bad as the world. Right?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Right.

 

COMMENT: But still, it seems like, in my case, with the sin being revealed, I am freer than I was under that religiousness. I feel that it is exposed. As it is exposed, I am getting freer to be who I really am, who I was never able to be because it was pressed down with the religious spirit, telling me this and that and preaching whatever.

 

COMMENT: It is very legalistic, whatever it has been. I am not sure what it was. But,  it is like a shame, and an ungodly type of shame. It is like a condemnation that, but yet, I felt it was right to resist. But yet, when I fall into it, if God is right there, saying, I am here to deliver you, I feel more filled up with Christ now, and bolder than I ever have been. And yet it is at the same hour that this wickedness is being revealed to me.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, that is the blessing of confession of sins and repentance. Confession of sins and repentance is not something to be dreaded. If anyone dreads that, it is just pride in them, because confession of our sin and repentance brings Christ into our life, and power. He says, Where you are weak, when I fill you, you are stronger than you could ever be in your own strength. So confess your weakness and receive my strength. Hallelujah.

 

COMMENT: Yes.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Confession of sins and repentance is a blessing of God. There is a Scripture that says, "We pray that the Lord grant you repentance." Man cannot even repent unless God gives him power over his own pride, which would keep him from repentance or even confessing the sin.

 

COMMENT: So a person that falls into fornication or pornography or masturbation or whatever; if they fall into that, and they have been a Christian for years, and all of a sudden, it just manifests, and some night, it happens, they can come back stronger than ever if they come back to God, and they repent.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Amen.

 

COMMENT: They could come back stronger than ever in Christ.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Amen. Yes.

 

COMMENT: Like, these men that the people in the world laugh at and say, Oh, he fell into it. And they are laughing at him because, Yes, he is supposed to be a Christian. He is supposed to be an evangelist, whatever. And he falls, and he gets back up. Christ knows what is going to happen in the end and the outcome of it.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Amen. The whole key is confession and repentance.

 

COMMENT: But if that person would have gone for deliverance... say, in my case, if I would go for deliverance, and I am looking for deliverance from that thing first, I am hoping it is never going to manifest. And I want deliverance.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Praise the Lord.

 

COMMENT: But if it is not happening, I do not know why. I do not know why the deliverance is not coming forth. And then the manifestation happens, and then it is exposed, but after the sin has already happened.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, I think sometimes the Lord will let it happen because some people do not realize that it is a sin. They do not realize it is a sin. They have been pressing it down under a religious spirit all these years, and they do not realize that it is something that has to be confessed and repented of. So the Lord might let it manifest to say to you, Hey, look, it is there. Are you going to confess and repent?

 

COMMENT: I believe that is what happened with me.

 

PASTOR VITALE: I believe so.

 

COMMENT: That the sin was there, but I did not realize it was there.

 

PASTOR VITALE: That it was sin. You did not know it was sin.

 

COMMENT: And I did not know the spirits that were involved.

 

PASTOR VITALE: OK.

 

COMMENT: I did not know that they were there. But through a religious spirit, I pressed it down for years. And those religious spirits are tricky because they come as Christ. They will use the Scriptures and everything. And they will have you confessing your sin to God. But it is not the real thing.

 

PASTOR VITALE: No. And what does it do? It keeps you from your true deliverance.

 

COMMENT: Even "Jesus, I repent of my sins." But,  I mean, I have done that all my life. I have asked Jesus to cleanse me. I have sung songs to Jesus all my life. And yet this sin is in my flesh. And so I cry out to God. God. That is where I come to the end, like there is no hope. Until, finally, He is... I mean, I am breaking through now...

 

PASTOR VITALE: Praise God.

 

COMMENT: ...a little bit. But, it is just a little bit.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Right.

 

COMMENT: Some of it has been really religious, the thing of even repentance that I have been taught.

 

PASTOR VITALE: It has not been a true repentance. It has been just words. Right?

 

COMMENT: Right. It is this patterned prayer that they taught us. "I am a sinner. Forgive me of my sin and cleanse my heart." But, see, I feel that I have been under a whole system that allows it to continue and go on, but they want to control it. They want the sin in you, but they want to control it.

 

That is some kind of a wicked system, I believe, that does that. Any church that does that, that does not want you free, and I believe that I was under that church most of my life. And I am not talking about the Catholic church. I am talking about a spirit-filled church...

 

PASTOR VITALE: Praise the Lord.

 

COMMENT: ...that believes in the baptism of the Holy Ghost, but they do not believe in the casting out of demons and the exposure of demons and sin.

 

PASTOR VITALE: They hide it. They will not even talk about it. Yes.

 

COMMENT: They allow the demon. They allow it. And they will not...

 

PASTOR VITALE: By refusing to talk about it. You see, Jesus Christ exposes sin. That is His ministry. He exposes sin. And after He exposes it, if you confess it and repent, He will deliver you. He will, I promise you, because my God is not a man that He should lie. Sometimes, you have to wait. He does not do it as quickly as you would like Him to do it.

 

COMMENT: And I am wondering if, in that same denomination, all their teachings about hell and; I mean, they have got a whole pattern. All the teachings that they have about hell and damnation and, the rapture and all these things, if they are not the actual spirits... this is why I am saying I believe it is much stronger than just a religious spirit. I believe it is whole doctrines, maybe. The way that the Lord is showing me this right now, I believe it could be whole doctrines that could keep these sexual evil spirits in the person, manifesting, tormenting them, night and day. But here they are, believing this stuff they are teaching. Could it be connected?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Sure, it could.

 

COMMENT: It could be the very doctrines that are keeping the demons in there.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Right, because they are afraid of being damned to hell forever. So they may not yield. Either they are yielding to these spirits, and then...

 

COMMENT: They will not yield it because of their fear of going to hell.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Right. Either they will not yield it because they are afraid of going to hell, and they are in torment in their body, or they do yield to it, and they are still afraid of going to hell, but the denomination holds control over them through fear.

 

And I declare, to anyone reading this message, our God is a God of love. And when the Bible talks about fearing God, that word, "fear," you have to look it up in the Hebrew. It is talking about respecting and honoring God. It is not the fear that man has. And the whole idea behind God's plan of salvation for us is to give us the power to keep His law, so that we do not have to fall into fornication, nor do we have to resist in our body from doing it and have our mind tormenting us

 

Because Jesus clearly said, If you lust after the woman, even if you never talk to her, if you have lusted after her, you have committed adultery with her. So what are we holding it in for? We are still in sin.

 

According to these denominations, you are going to hell whether you do it or whether you do not do it. According to their teachings, I do not believe that.

 

COMMENT: But we were taught to resist these sins, that they are wrong, and that we just do not do them.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Right.

 

COMMENT: So that is what we were doing, resisting them in ourselves.

 

PASTOR VITALE: In your own strength.

 

COMMENT: Is that what we are to do?

 

PASTOR VITALE: No, because that is resisting them in your own strength, you see. And we will never get set free doing anything in our own strength.

 

COMMENT: What is the line with that, then? What is the line? What is actually resisting them in Christ's strength? Because we said, Father, forgive me of my sin, in Jesus' name.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, the line is the person's heart.

 

COMMENT: We read the Word of God. It was all the Word.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Right. It has to be a specific repentance. You have to go before God and say, Father, I know that I have deep-seated desire to do (whatever you are desiring to do: to have sex outside of marriage, to masturbate, to have oral sex, whatever it is). You have to say, Father, this is not just a general sin that I could say, 'Well, all young people have this, and I have it too, and keep me from falling into fornication. No, no. You have to go before the Lord and say, Father, this thing is in me. It wants to act its lusts out through my members, and it is there, and it is my sin, and I want to be set free from it. That kind of honest, open confession and repentance is the first step towards deliverance.

 

And this is, of course, assuming that you have a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. Because the Scripture says, "Submit the God, resist the devil, and he shall flee from you."

 

COMMENT: Yes.

 

PASTOR VITALE: So we must be close with Jesus. We must confess it and repent of it. And then we wait for our deliverance, hanging onto the horns of the altar, trying not to do it. And if we slip once, well, we just pick ourselves up, brush ourselves off, repent and go right back into our program of resisting, crying out to God the whole time that we acknowledge that it is wrong, that we hate it, but that we were overtaken, and to please deliver us. And He will.

 

COMMENT: So with our will, we are to resist.

 

PASTOR VITALE: With our will, with the power of God. We have to lay hold of the power of God and use it. You see, the man that does not truly repent, he is not using the power of God because the power of God is not available to him without repentance. The man that says, Well, everyone has lust. What are you trying to make out of me? Every man has lust, and I am not committing adultery, so what do you want? Then he is doing it in his own strength.

 

The only way we are going to be delivered from the torment is to join our strength to the strength of God, to lay hold of the power of God. And that is only available to us after we confess that it is our personal sin, that it is ungodly, that it something unclean that is within us, and that we want to live holy for Christ. We are not making excuses for ourselves, but we are turning to God for the deliverance from an ungodly lust.

 

I had a woman say to me once, "My husband works nights, and he comes home frequently when I am sleeping. And he has sexual intercourse with me while I am sleeping." This is what this woman told me. This woman was unsatisfied in her marriage in that she was not having lovemaking with her husband frequently enough.

 

It is like going to bed with a dead body. She was just lying there. She was asleep. And he would have sexual intercourse with her, and he was relieved, and there was no warmth and affection and loving that would be involved if it was a soulish lovemaking based on mutual affection and compassion for one another.

 

So she could have told anybody, Well, my husband and I, we have sex six nights a week, but I am not satisfied. Why are you not satisfied? Because he has used you to masturbate. Can you hear what I am saying? This is not godly, to go home and have sex with your wife when she is asleep, that she should lay there like a dead person.

 

Do you know that there is another perversion that some people have sex with dead bodies? And I have read of accounts. I have read an account of a woman that got an annulment. She married a man, a virgin. And on their wedding night, he told her to soak in a bathtub. She could not understand why. And she came out of the bathtub all cold and wrinkly, and he commanded her to just lie still on the bed and not move while he had sex with her. This is simulating a dead body.

 

Brethren, when a man and a woman have sexual intercourse, it is to be based on mutual love, affection and respect, and mutual willingness to come together and comfort one another. You cannot masturbate on your mate.

 

COMMENT: That is fornication, too. Masturbating on your mate...

 

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, it is. Yes, it is.

 

COMMENT: ...is another form of fornication.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Right. If your husband is forcing that on you, if he is insisting on having sexual intercourse with you while you sleep, you have a right to resist him because that is fornication.

 

COMMENT: If he wakes you up?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, no. If he wakes you up, and if you join with him, if you do not mind being woken up in the night.

 

COMMENT: You mean, if he starts just making sexual moves on you as you are sleeping.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Right, as you lay there, as a half-dead person. Right, as you are asleep, with no response from you whatsoever. And he says, Just lay there; I will be through in a minute. That is fornication. What does he need you for? Is he giving himself a good time? Well, I do not masturbate; I have sex with my wife. You are a liar, brother, because there is no difference, one from the other.

 

You see, to some men, it is insulting or against their masculinity to masturbate. But they will have sex with their wife while she does not participate. What is the difference? Get yourself a doll. I hear there is a big market for human-sized dolls these days.

 

COMMENT: Where? Really?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Yes. Now, these are sick people.

 

COMMENT: Really perverted.

 

PASTOR VITALE: These are sick people. They want the animal stimulation without the demands of a relationship with another human being, who might say to you, Darling, tonight, I have a headache. And you have to say, Yes, dear, I love you enough to wait until you want to share this activity with me. There is pain in a relationship. You have to forgive; you have to love; you have to give and take; you have to compromise.

 

And people today, many of them are so selfish that, when they want the stimulation, they want it. And they will either say to their mate, Just lay still; you do not have to do anything; that is, or they will masturbate. Or some really sick people buy these dolls. It is all fornication.

 

God has said man shall have sexual intercourse in the marriage bed, two people, agreed in their mind, based on love and affection and respect.

 

COMMENT: And that is holy and undefiled.

 

PASTOR VITALE: And that is holy and undefiled.

 

COMMENT: If the person gets cleansed of these things, and they are in a marriage, can they come to a place where there is no more sin reigning in their body? Would this lead them into eternal life?

 

PASTOR VITALE: I believe the deliverance from any sin is one step closer to eternal life. I do not think we are ever delivered from all sin because sin comes from two sources. Its original root is in our Adamic soul. When we have yielded to that sin, either us or members of our ancestors who have yielded to that sin, our Adamic soul produces fruit. And that ungodly fruit is demons and curses.

 

Now, we can get demons and curses from engaging in ungodly sexual behavior ourselves, or it can be passed down on the family line. The only thing we can get delivered from is the ungodly fruit. The root of our problem, which is Adam, shall remain until Christ swallows him up. However, when we have demons of lust or ungodly or perverse sex, sometimes, they are so strong that they torment us.

 

So if the Lord delivers us from the fruit, we should no longer be in torment. And we should be strong enough that, when our Adamic soul rises up and makes us think about pornography, we should be strong enough in Christ because it is the Adamic soul alone without his offspring, you see, without the demons.

 

We should be strong enough in Christ to stand up and say, Now, you are wickedness, and you are not going to stimulate me. I am not going to tolerate it. I am not going to do it. And I command this thought to go from my mind. And we will be strong enough to do that if we are in Christ and it is Adam alone speaking to us. Adam together with his offspring, the demons, can overtake us, even if we are in Christ.

 

And we all know that this is what happened to that international preacher a few years ago, I believe, a great man of God. And he was found on the back streets looking for prostitutes. He needed deliverance. He could not take dominion over his own Adamic soul. Why? Because, wherever they came from, on the family line or before he was saved, whatever, he had demons that were leading him to these prostitutes, that, together with Adam, were stronger than the Christ in him.

 

COMMENT: Now, do you believe that.... say we get the demons out, of lust. Because of Adam being there, you are saying we do not ever get delivered from all sin until Christ appears. Right?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Amen.

 

COMMENT: When Christ appears, that is it.

 

PASTOR VITALE: That is it. It is all over.

 

COMMENT: Well, while we are still in Adam, is that still going to bring a problem in the sexual relationship because Adam is there?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, it should not because, if we have Christ and we have been delivered of the evil fruit, then the battle is between Christ and Adam, and there should not be any problem overtaking Adam.

 

COMMENT: But you say Adam is pride.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Adam is pride.

 

COMMENT: Well, even if there is pride in a sexual act; say the lust is out, but there is pride there. That cannot be beautiful, can it?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, it depends on how it manifests. But the point is that, when the Lord delivers us from demons, we then have the choice of whether we will live out of Christ or live out of Adam. We have to choose to reject Adam. We have to choose the mind of Christ.

 

I pray frequently, Father, let mind that was in Jesus Christ be in me. If a situation arrives in my life, and I even suspect in the slightest way that my thoughts are not godly towards it, I will say, Lord, how would you deal with this? Give me Your thoughts.

 

COMMENT: So, in the case of a marriage, when two people are married, they are supposed to be rejecting the Adamic mind.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Amen.

 

COMMENT: And even in the sexual areas, they are supposed to be manifesting the mind of Christ.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Amen. Yes, I would say amen to that.

 

COMMENT: And if the mind of Christ is on their sexual relationship, it will be beautiful.

 

PASTOR VITALE: It will be beautiful.

 

COMMENT: What is the mind of Christ?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, the mind of Christ is the soul of Christ. We are two souls. We have an Adamic soul and a soul of Christ. We are double-minded, and we are unstable in all our ways. That is what James says.

 

COMMENT: Yes.

 

PASTOR VITALE: But the end of the matter will be that the life of the Christ soul will swallow up the death of the Adamic soul, and we shall be all Christ. And He shall be glorified in us totally. But right now, we are two men. And all that we can do, in each instance, is to ask God for his mind in each situation.

 

I had a woman say to me, just in the last couple of weeks, that one night, she was making love with her husband, and she said, Lord, be glorified in our lovemaking. And she became pregnant.

 

COMMENT: That is beautiful.

 

PASTOR VITALE: That is beautiful. She has a beautiful little boy today.

 

COMMENT: That reminds me. What do you believe about birth control?

 

PASTOR VITALE: I believe in birth control because I believe that the human body is programmed to procreate. Women are programmed to get pregnant when they make love with their husbands.

 

COMMENT: What form of birth control do you believe?

 

PASTOR VITALE: I really think the safest thing is a condom, because most of the other forms of birth control they destroy the life. Either they are spermicides, and they destroy the sperm, which to me is the least negative. For example, the birth control pill, or some devices that the women will take in, they literally let the women conceive, and they destroy the fetus.

 

COMMENT: Now, I heard some people say that, in Christian marriages, that they just abstain.

 

PASTOR VITALE: No, I do not believe that is scriptural.

 

COMMENT: I do not think so either because it says that [UNINTELLIGIBLE] What is the Scripture that...

 

PASTOR VITALE: It is talking about fasting. Right.

 

COMMENT: "Withhold not the sex, except for the time of fasting." Right?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Except for the time of fasting.

 

COMMENT: Not just because I do not want to get her pregnant, so I am abstaining.

 

PASTOR VITALE: No, that is not godly.

 

COMMENT: That is not godly.

 

PASTOR VITALE: No.

 

COMMENT: But the whole idea of sex in real love, the person does get pregnant. And when I think of... like, if the man or the woman wants oral sex, they cannot get pregnant that way.

 

PASTOR VITALE: No.

 

COMMENT: And I thought maybe that is why this perversion comes into their mind, because it could be satanic to keep the pregnancy from happening, and it is an ungodly way. Well, it is a way to get off, get stimulated, without getting the person pregnant...

 

PASTOR VITALE: It is a homosexual act.

 

COMMENT: ...which is an ungodly form.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Yes.

 

COMMENT: It is definitely fornication.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Oral sex is a homosexual act. This whole message is not being preached. A man and a woman may think it is acceptable, like you said. Even if they were married, and they do not want to get pregnant, they may think it is acceptable to engage in oral sex.

 

But oral sex is a homosexual act. Whether you are doing it with your wife or not, it is a homosexual act, and you are building curses within yourself, if not for you, for your children or your grandchildren or your great-grandchildren. You are opening the door for homosexuality by performing homosexual acts.

 

And that is true. It is really big in this society today to have anal sex. Amongst married people, it is really in, to have anal sex. That is a homosexual act. It is ungodly and animalistic.

 

The Lord just spoke to me a minute ago. And I would just like to make it clear because the Lord reminded me of what this woman said to me. And sexual intercourse between a man and a woman should be lovemaking. It should not be sex. It should not be sexual activity. It should be lovemaking. And if one party is not involved, if they are laying there like a lump, how could it be lovemaking? It takes two people to engage in lovemaking.

 

COMMENT: That is a common term, "making love." What does that really mean?

 

PASTOR VITALE: It means that, when sexual activity is joined to the love and affection and respect and willing participation of both parties it becomes lovemaking. It is the ultimate expression of the love of a man and woman in this realm. And God has said the marriage bed is undefiled. But it has to be two people participating.

 

It is not lovemaking when you pick up someone at a bar and is not lovemaking if your wife is asleep and just lying there like a dead body or a doll. That is not lovemaking. And if you have a tension that you want to get rid of, and your wife agrees to having sex, that is not lovemaking.

 

COMMENT: So the more that the two are communicating in the soul, the more beautiful the sex is going to be.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Correct. This is supposed to be an act of the soul. We are not animals. We are not to engage in acts of our bodies.

 

COMMENT: Is it possible to express the Spirit of God within the times of the sexual interactions?

 

PASTOR VITALE: I believe so. If your hearts are right towards one another, God will be glorified in your lovemaking, if you are married.

 

COMMENT: Now, if all the sex acts are right, and the man is on top all the time, and every time they do it, the man is on top, and the woman is in submission, and the woman is responding, and they are responding to one another, is it possible to get to that place where they walk in perfection together?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Perfection is only in Christ.

 

COMMENT: Yes.

 

PASTOR VITALE: It depends on your definition of perfection. We are told that Job was perfect, and we find out what that means is that he was perfect in that he complied with God's law to the best of human ability. So I would have to say yes if our definition of perfection is that the man and the woman are walking in God's law, in their marriage, to the best of their ability. They can expect to experience the very best that God has to offer in their relationship.

 

COMMENT: Now, if a person is single, and they get delivered from the lust demons, and they are free from those things, and they are still dealing with the Adamic mind, is the Adamic mind going to lead them into marriage?

 

PASTOR VITALE: I am sorry. Would you repeat that, please?

 

COMMENT: The question I had, that, if the person is single, and they finally get delivered of these lust demons that would have led them into marriage, but it could have been out of lust instead of love. Say they get delivered of these perverted sexual things, these family-line fornications and lust and all. And they are having a good life with Jesus. Can their Adamic mind, after the lust is gone, still want to lead them into marriage?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, but they should have all dominion over it.

 

COMMENT: Now, can this be their Adamic mind saying yes, when Christ is not the Adamic mind, and Christ may be saying something else?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Definitely. This is the whole battle of the believer. We have two voices in our head, and we have to be diligent to know that we are hearing the voice of Christ.

 

And the way that we protect ourselves, while we are in this in-between stage, is to pray continuously. Lord, I dedicate my whole life and soul to you, and please keep me from walking after my own lusts. Because it is my desire to follow You, but I cannot follow You unless you put the understanding in my heart of who is talking to me. May Your will prevail in my life. A prayer like that, that continues throughout your entire life, will keep you from destruction. Obedience to God will keep you from destruction.

 

COMMENT: Can two people that are married come into immortality? Or is it going to hinder them coming into the fullness?

 

PASTOR VITALE: The Lord will not let me off the, hold on, I am going to say it. This is a revelation that He has just recently spoken to me about. Oh, dear. Well, I am going to put it on the message. I believe that, within the last month; and when I first heard this, I did not believe it. Oh, my goodness. I do not believe this. OK, Lord. Just give me a second to get my act together here.

 

COMMENT: That was a big question.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, Well, to answer it briefly, and then I will expound on it, I believe the Lord has told me, to enter into true perfection, where Christ swallows up Adam, it will involve the leaving off of sexual activity. And if you are married at the time that Christ calls you to this high place in Christ, I believe that, to enter into perfection, you will have to give up sexual activity with your husband. You do not have to stop living with him.

 

When I first heard it, I did not believe it. And the Lord gave me two Scriptures. Paul said, and I cannot quote it to you exactly. I was going to look it up after church this morning. Paul said, At this hour, things are progressing along into the kingdom of God. So if you are single, stay single. If you have a wife or a husband, act as if you had none. Live as if you had none.

 

And when I first came into the Church, that always meant to me, well, Paul says in another place, if you are married, the first thing in your mind is ministering to your wife. Or if you are a woman, the first thing is making your husband happy. So when Paul said, If you do have a wife, act as if you have none, I thought that meant that you have to serve God. And if He calls you to Africa for six months, your wife just has to survive. That was what I thought it meant.

 

COMMENT: That is what we all believed. That is what we believed, that it meant that, well, Peter was gone from his wife all the time. And you just have to act like you are called to do missionary things. You have got to go here and there, and you cannot be thinking about your home life.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Right. Well, when I asked the Lord for two witnesses to this revelation that He surprised me with, this was one of them. He said, If you are married, when you are called into the age of the kingdom; and I just want to remind everybody reading this message that that last generation, in which we shall be glorified, exists within our hearts. The ages are within our hearts.

 

And existing on this earth at the same time are human beings that know nothing of Christ, human beings that have the thirtyfold, human beings that have the sixtyfold. And there are human beings that are getting very close to entering into perfection. And that condition of your heart is what determines where you are.

 

So if Jesus brings your heart to a place where he is ready to bring you into perfection, you are required to give up sexual activity. Why? Because sexual activity is an activity of animal life. The Lord has said the marriage bed is undefiled while you are down here. But when I draw you back up to the high realms of the heavenlies, you cannot live like an animal anymore. You cannot have both.

 

So the two witnesses he gave me is Paul saying, "If you have a wife, live as if you have none." And we have no reason to believe, from that short statement, that all he meant was go on your missionary work. He said, "Live as if you have no wife." Well, what do you do when you have a wife? You put her welfare first, and you have sexual intercourse. Grow-up time, even for me, because I did not want to believe it. That was the first witness.

 

And the second witness was that Jesus said, "Some men make themselves eunuchs for my sake." And if there is another witness to married people giving up sexual intercourse, either the Lord has not given it to me yet, or I am so shocked that you asked me this question that I cannot remember what the answer is because I have just been praying about it for a month now. And nobody is more surprised than me.

 

But this is what he is telling me. As we ascend, as we move into perfection, we are being called back up to the high realms of the spirit, where the male and female, where the husband and wife, is within one body. And if you are a human person, in relationship to Christ, you are female. And when Christ comes to dwell in you and starts to rule in you and becomes your mind, He is your husband, and you shall have ascended from this low realm that man has fallen into.

 

And I know that this is very shocking and very upsetting to a lot of people. And I just want to say this. I want to put this on the message that it may seem horrible to you now, but it is not horrible. And 11 or 12 or maybe 13 years ago, when the Lord first called me, someone said something to me, to the effect of, What would you say if God was never going to let you get married again? And I was horrified at the thought of it. And I said, Oh, He would not do that to me.

 

And now it is all these years later, and I just want to put on the message that I am eunuch for Christ, that it is not terrible, that it really has its rewards. And if we are just strong enough spiritually; just recently, I have not been suffering for lack of sex. The Lord has taken that lust from me. I believe, if I were to be married again, I would be a normal woman. But I am not married, and I do not suffer from lack of sex.

 

If I suffer from anything, it is from loneliness and the intimacy that we have in a marriage, of being with someone, waking up in the morning with them. But as I have been praying through this for years, and I have paid the price for this deliverance, it has been painful. But I have overcome in Christ, and I am just starting to enter into a place where He has strengthened me spiritually to the point that He is my husband. I talk to Him continuously when I am alone in the house. He is my company. I no longer feel lonely. And as I ascend in Him, I am getting a vision of the fact that it is really preferable to a human marriage.

 

Now, this is a radical thing that I am saying. And I understand that it is very frightening and shocking to the Christian who is still a natural person. But all that I can say is this: Do not try to do anything in your own strength. It will be a religious work. But if God does call you to be a eunuch for Him, there is great glory in it. And if He has called you to be a eunuch for Him, and you are running away from Him, you are Jonah, and He will bring you back.

 

So as the age of the kingdom dawns upon the Church world, the Lord is requiring me to put this on a message. In the kingdom of heaven, there is no marriage or giving in marriage. But we are as the angels, and there is no sexual intercourse. And if you enter into that condition at a time in your natural life that you are married, I believe that sexual intercourse will have to cease.

 

Well, I do not want to say that. Just trust God and believe Him. And remember, as you stamp and have your temper tantrum because of what I am saying, that to seek anything with all your heart, mind and soul, other than Christ, is idolatry.

 

And now after that I rebuke you, I will encourage you, and I will say that all things are possible in Christ. And if you are one who is desiring to enter into the kingdom in the fullness, prepare your mind, saith the Lord. The animal life shall not enter in with you. Choose ye this day, saith God, who you will serve. And those of you that prepare yourself to enter in, know this, saith God, I will not receive you with the animal life.

 

COMMENT: I think I was thinking of that when I said, in their life together, in a marriage life, could they enter into perfection?

 

PASTOR VITALE: While having sexual intercourse? Is that what you mean?

 

COMMENT: I was asking you, if the lust was out and the Adam was dealt with, and the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ was manifesting in their sexual relations also, would it be possible that they come into perfection?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Yes.

 

COMMENT: You are saying that it is a lower realm.

 

PASTOR VITALE: It is a lower realm.

 

COMMENT: It is animalistic.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Right. I do not mean to put condemnation on anybody. The marriage bed is not defiled.

 

COMMENT: It is not sin.

 

PASTOR VITALE: It is not sin.

 

COMMENT: It is not sin.

 

PASTOR VITALE: The marriage is undefiled.

 

COMMENT: He said, "Let them marry. It is not sin."

 

PASTOR VITALE: Right. But you have to know where you are. If you want to enter into the higher realms, there is no sexual intercourse in the higher realms. The marriage bed is undefiled. The marriage bed is undefiled.

 

COMMENT: And it is beautiful, and it is holy, the Bible says.

 

PASTOR VITALE: And it is beautiful, and it is holy, and it is nice. I was married. I like sex. It is nice. But it is a particular realm. And you cannot be in two places at one time. That is the size of it.

 

COMMENT: But it does not necessarily have to bring you into the carnal realm, right?

 

PASTOR VITALE: What do you mean?

 

COMMENT: Sex.

 

PASTOR VITALE: What do you mean?

 

COMMENT: What was your definition of perfection again?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Perfection within a human marriage as ordained by God. If you are delivered of the lust, and you are loving and honoring and respecting one another and communicating, you can have a very blessed marriage, to the uttermost that God would agree to bless you in this realm. But there is only so far that you could go in this realm. And if you want to enter into the higher realms of the spirit, you cannot bring the animal life with you. You have to give it up.

 

And the Lord said, Choose. The Lord said, Choose. But you cannot have both. You see, you cannot have both. Hallelujah.

 

COMMENT: So when you enter into immortality, you are dwelling totally in Christ.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Right, and He will be your husband. And you will be complete in one vessel.

 

COMMENT: And the same with the man. He is everything to the man.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Right. He will be the husband to the man, who was a spiritual female.

 

COMMENT: Well, when it comes to that time, when we are as the angels, does that mean that we do not think about sex, ever?

 

PASTOR VITALE: No, we will not want it. We will not want it because this is,  although it is shocking...

 

COMMENT: It will not even be in our memory?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Maybe. It may very well be in our memories, as we remember kindergarten.  But we will know that what we have is so much better.

 

COMMENT: That could be now. But if it is in our memory, will it not be fused into Christ?

 

PASTOR VITALE: It will be fused into Christ as a past activity, as an activity of childhood, as an activity of spiritual childhood.

 

COMMENT: I see. Well, a single person, rather than a married person, it does not mean that that single person will sooner enter into immortality, will it?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, it does not have to mean that.

 

COMMENT: Or that they are more spiritual than the married person.

 

PASTOR VITALE: No, no. It does not mean that you are more spiritual. But I would say this, that, if God calls you to remain single, you are much more likely to have a more rapid spiritual growth than if you are married.

 

Why? Because, if you are married, you would have children. There are things that you must do that will keep you bound to the carnal realm. You must bathe them. You must shop. You must clean. You must help them with their schoolwork. And when your mind is occupied on this carnal realm, which is glorious in its place, you cannot be partaking of the things of God. You cannot be in two places at once.

 

So the amount of time that you have to devote to the things of God, when you have a husband and children, will be limited. If you forgo having a husband and children, just about,  well, I would not say "just about" because you will have a secular job if you are not in the ministry.

 

But when you are a wife and mother, it is 24 hours a day, seven days a week. So at least you will have your weekends and your evenings to study and to share the things of God. And most women even that go to church on Sunday morning, they cannot enjoy the service because they have to watch the children. That is just the truth. I am not against marriage, but this is the truth.

 

Now, everybody has to be where God calls them. If you are a woman, and God has called you to raise a family, then let him be glorified in it. But if you are a woman, and He has not called you to raise a family, if you do not see him giving you a husband, do not weep and moan and groan.

 

COMMENT: Well, you say some have made themselves eunuchs. They chose it. Is that what you are saying, they made a choice? Or that Christ just moved them into it against their will?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Yes. I do not know because I have not looked it up in the Greek, but I will tell you this: that my prayer, when I came to the Lord was, Lord, I would like to get married again. But if you cannot give me a man who is going to be mature enough and spiritual enough that, if I am willing to fight with everything I have, that this marriage is at least going to stand a chance, then I do not want to get married. I do not want to be in an ungodly marriage. I want at least a fighting chance. That was my prayer, and He never gave me a husband. And He has just given me glorious things in the realm of the spirit.

 

And it is my observation (you can disagree with me if you want) that women that have been married, that are either widowed or divorced, more divorced women than widowed women, He does not seem to give them another husband. It is a very rare case that He gives them another husband. However, Paul says, Let the single women marry and have children. And it is my opinion that young women are called to marriage and bearing children.

 

But for whatever reason, well, I know what the reason is. I might as well be honest. If you wind up in a divorce, the chances are really good that you have some kind of a spiritual problem with your soul. Even if you say, It was not me; the woman or the man was an alcoholic or a drug addict; I just happened to marry that person. Why can I not marry again? I declare to you, brother or sister, that even outside of God, we do not marry people by mistake. We are attracted to certain kinds of people because of the condition of our soul.

 

And if Jesus Christ looks upon your heart, and there is a condition of your soul that will cause trouble in a second marriage, I declare to you that, if you are obedient to Him, He will not give you a husband until that condition of your soul is corrected.

 

Now, there are many who go and get married anyway, and they are unhappy. I know a recent case. The woman got married to this man. I never believed it was of God. And they are now divorced, and I understand he is back in homosexuality. I do not believe God put that marriage together. And that women was a widow. She was not divorced; she was a widow.

 

So when it comes to young women, I agree with Paul. Let the young women marry and bear children and be in submission to their husband. Let your parents help you to choose a mature man and be in submission to him. But if you have had a marriage, especially if you have had children, you have had your chance, and it has not worked. God is not likely to give you another husband until your soul has been corrected.

 

And now, in this hour that we are so close to the catching up, to the spiritual catching up, I look around me. I see many women that He is not giving them husbands. And they are moaning, and they are groaning, and they do not understand that they are better off this way, because the catching up is so close, that they now have more time to devote to the things of God so that they will be prepared to enter in.

 

I know married women that have this revelation that the time is near. And they are in all forms of frustration, trying to minister to their family and study the things of God. And they are being ripped in two different directions. And that is just the condition that God put them in, in this hour. But what I am saying is that, if you are single, it is a blessing. You can devote everything to moving into the things of God. But our carnal minds are so strong that we want that husband, and we want those children, and we want that life.

 

And all that I can say to you is, do not get religious. Ask Jesus what he has for you. Do not hear this message and say, I am not going to get married. Maybe you are not called to the firstfruits company. Maybe you are not going to get caught up for 40 years. Get married and have your children. Do you hear what I am saying?

 

COMMENT: Yes. With what you are saying, I think it would encourage us to want to give up marriage and seek out the firstfruits company because we are missing this beautiful firstfruits company calling.

 

PASTOR VITALE: If you are called to it.  If you are called to it. Now, this would be very disappointing for a young woman, or even a young man, to give up marriage and children and find out that they are not called to the firstfruits company. So we have to get our personal word from God.

 

If He gives us a husband or a wife, and you pray it through, and it is God, well, take it and enjoy. But if you find yourself praying and praying and praying, and there does not seem to be any husband or wife for you, do not moan and groan, brethren. Do not moan and groan. Use your opportunity to get into the deep things of God.

 

COMMENT: What I am hearing from you is that a person that is getting married is not going to be able to enter into the firstfruits company.

 

PASTOR VITALE: I did not say that.

 

COMMENT: Oh.

 

PASTOR VITALE: No, I did not say that. I did not say that.

 

COMMENT: Well, going back to what you said earlier, as far as when you said that sex is not in that higher realm, are we letting ourselves out for a disappointment in thinking that we could come into a higher realm in the spirit with a sex...

 

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, I agree. Yes. I think that, if you are married at the time that Jesus calls you up, even though you stay married, and you live with your husband or your wife, you will have to give up sexual activity when you are called up to that place. Now, do not go doing it in the flesh.

 

COMMENT: You are saying they can be married, but they are going to be giving up the married life and seeking out these things in the spirit.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Right. That is what Paul said. "Live as if you have no wife." Amen.

 

COMMENT: So sex is not in the spirit.

 

PASTOR VITALE: No.

 

COMMENT: It is only in the soul?

 

PASTOR VITALE: There is spiritual sex between us and God, continuous sexual intercourse of the mind.

 

COMMENT: Well, and with the Spirit of God in a man, and then the Spirit of God in the woman, if they are dwelling in heaven within them, and they are having sex, they cannot do that, too?

 

PASTOR VITALE: No, you cannot have both. What will happen is that you will lose that intimacy with Christ and fall back down to the soul realm.

 

COMMENT: So sex is only in the soul.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Yes.

 

COMMENT: You are saying that, in a marriage, though, you can be expressing the Spirit of God during the sexual relations.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, to a certain point. But to enter into the life of Christ beyond that point, and whatever that point is, only Jesus knows. You see, we cannot go up higher until He calls us up. When He calls us up, we have to give up sex because you cannot be in the soul realm and in the spiritual realm at the same time.

 

Well, actually, you can. I know someone is going to get me on this one. Our bodies are going to be here on the earth. But our spiritual condition, the condition of our soul, it cannot be engaging in the life of the soul realm and the life of the spirit at the same time. The life of the Adamic soul, that is what I am trying to say. It is Adam that has sexual intercourse. Christ has intercourse of the mind.

 

So either you are having a sexual human intercourse through your Adamic soul, or you are having spiritual intercourse of your mind through the soul of Christ. We are only permitted to be half in the soul of Adam and half in the soul of Christ for a season. When the soul of Christ...

 

COMMENT: Now, that is not thinking about sex in your mind.

 

PASTOR VITALE: No.

 

COMMENT: That is perverted, right?

 

PASTOR VITALE: What is that, thinking about sex in your mind?

 

COMMENT: Thinking about having sex in your mind.

 

PASTOR VITALE: That is lust. It is lust.

 

COMMENT: That is lust and perversion and torment, right?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, it is torment. If it has no outlet, it is torment. Yes.

 

COMMENT: But you are talking about an intercourse via the life of Christ and the thoughts of Christ coming through the mind.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Exactly, and a joining of the mind of God to our mind.

 

COMMENT: And it is not really sex.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Sex is the type of it. There is a natural type of everything that is spiritual. And sex is the imperfect type of the spiritual perfection that we shall have in union with Christ. See, sexual intercourse is imperfect. No matter how much the man and woman love one another, eventually, you have to get out of bed. You come apart.

 

COMMENT: So that is what I was asking earlier, about the perfection. They cannot find that perfection then. They cannot walk in that perfection together.

 

PASTOR VITALE: No, because you are going to walk in it with Christ. That is adultery to have a natural husband when you are that close with Christ.

 

COMMENT: But when they, say when they both become Christ.

 

PASTOR VITALE: It does not work that way.

 

COMMENT: It does not?

 

PASTOR VITALE: No, no. Your intimacy...

 

COMMENT: I think that is the biggest thing with... the reason why they lust so much is because they think, eventually, they are going to come into that. Why would they think there was such a beauty and such a wonderful, heavenly, beautiful feeling, and all of that, if they did not think they were going to come into something beautiful of Christ? They may not call it Christ, but that is the big letdown then, if there is no perfection in it.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Oh, I guess I misunderstood your question before. No, there is no perfection in it. And the marriage counselors' officers are filled with married couples that are having a problem adjusting to one another sexually. But there is no problem in adjusting to Christ, you see.

 

COMMENT: What about eunuchs that were born eunuchs? Do you have anything to say about that? How did they get born eunuchs? Now, I heard one woman say that she does not believe that there are very many eunuchs that God has called to be eunuchs. They have to be a special person.

 

PASTOR VITALE: I agree.

 

COMMENT: She said that the Lord told this girl, when she was very young, that her life was totally devoted to prayer. And she put others together, even. She even told certain ones that they were meant for one another. She knew it. But she knew that she was called to be a eunuch.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Right. It is very rare.

 

COMMENT: She knew it from a very young little girl. And she was born, I guess what you would call born a eunuch.

 

PASTOR VITALE: But I see it happening more and more. As the Lord prepares His firstfruits company to ascend, I see more and more eunuchs for Christ, especially among women, especially among the women. A lot of unmarried women in the ministry today, a lot of married women just serving God.

 

COMMENT: So if the marrieds leave off their sex times, they are going to ascend?

 

PASTOR VITALE: When the Lord says, Come up hither, they will have to cease from sexual activity.

 

COMMENT: Yes, because the Bible says do not do that. To give it to one another, except for fasting.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, when you read something in the Scripture, you really have to read the whole surrounding chapter to understand what they are talking about. In the Scripture you just quoted, Paul is talking about fasting. And he is answering the question ... I remember, when I was a new Christian, I heard a lot of people ask, When you fast from food, do you give up sex too? And the answer was, When you fast from food, you do not engage in sexual activity. It must be too strenuous on the body. But, now, do not fast so much that your partner is going to be tempted. Now, that is talking about fasting. But Paul said, The hour is short. And if you are called to this high realm, and you have a wife, live as if you have none.

 

So they are two different contexts, two different counsels for two different contexts. It is the same thing as saying, Is lovemaking legal? Outside of marriage, it is not, no matter how much you love each other. And inside of marriage, it is. So when you find an elder in the Scripture answering a question, you have to understand who he is talking to and what he is talking about when he is saying it.

 

So I believe that it is possible that one person out of a couple can get called up higher when the other one is not.

 

COMMENT: Oh, that brings another question then. If you are married, and one is called higher and to leave the sexual, and the other one is not, and he is still wanting it, what do you do in that case?

 

PASTOR VITALE: You have to serve God. I have not experienced that, so I do not know. But you would have to really pray. But the understanding that I have right now is, if God calls you, you go.

 

COMMENT: Well, it says in the Scriptures, though, that except you be tempted; does that not mean the temptation would be that, if you are not giving one another sex, if one is tempted, they might be tempted to go outside of marriage to get it?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Yes.

 

COMMENT: That is what that means.

 

PASTOR VITALE: That is what it says. But it is talking about the conditions surrounding fasting. Now, maybe if one person is caught up, the Lord will deal with the mate. I do not know because this is such a brand-new area. I have never heard anyone preach on this. It is such a brand-new area. So I do not know the answer to all the questions. And I am not even married myself, so I do not know.

 

COMMENT: Through legal means, sexual sin can be held to a minimal, minimized.

 

PASTOR VITALE: You mean through making adultery illegal and things like that?

 

COMMENT: Yes.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Is that what you mean? I believe so. In this very country, many states still have laws against adultery on the books. In the hour that the law was being enforced, people really thought twice about committing adultery.

 

As a matter of fact, I heard something the other day that made me chuckle. The law is still on the books in California. It is illegal to commit adultery. And this is the state that has just legalized homosexual marriages. Obviously, they do not enforce the adultery law. They just never removed it.

 

But there was a time, in this very country, I heard that there was a case on the books where a man was arrested for having oral sex with his wife. They put him in jail. I guess somebody had a complaint. I think she contracted some kind of a disease, and the doctor reported it, something that could only result from oral sex. And they put him in jail.

 

COMMENT: Yes, but why does it have to be that they would have a disease for this thing to be arrested?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, how else is anybody going to know? How are you going to know if two people have oral sex? If they are married, how could you know?

 

COMMENT: If one partner will not stop, does the other go to the lawyer?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, in this day and hour, no court would do it. No court would put you in jail, even if the law is on the books. But years ago, all of these things were enforced.

 

COMMENT: Like they are saying, if you want to stop the rape down the street, start at 42nd Street.  That is what they were saying last night. And if this was legalized that they could not do that, they have the peep shows. They have nudes. They have actual, live nudes down on 42nd Street. They have all these different shows, movies and stuff. If they made that illegal, because, if it is a law of the land, is that going to help the humanity?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, I think, as long as man is under the law and capable of all these wicked things, stopping all these peep shows and enforcing the law would help people to have more self-control. But we know that, as far as God is concerned, our souls have to be cleaned up. For the human race to be saved to the uttermost, we have to have our souls cleansed. Making all of these things illegal keeps law and order in an uncleansed society.

 

COMMENT: Would it be of the Lord that the Sons of God would be going about to do all they can to make this illegal on 42nd Street?

 

PASTOR VITALE: No. The job of the Sons of God is to bring the whole creation up to the high realms of Christ, where the Lord God is fulfilled in them, and nobody will sin anymore.

 

COMMENT: So when we change things in the world, it is not going to be getting rid of the bars and getting rid of these peep shows and movies and nudes and erotic dancers and all of this. And we are not going to be doing that? We are not going to just change it over, and go into the computers and change everything?

 

PASTOR VITALE: No. That is the job of the carnal Church. And that is a good job because it could be a long time before every human being on the face of the earth is converted in their heart. So we still need laws of the land. And it is the carnal Church that is out there writing letters and going into the courts to reverse abortion laws. And I think that it is a very valid ministry because it is going to be a long time before the whole human race is converted. And I believe that, if they are doing it, God has told them to do it, and it is a valid ministry.

 

But the firstfruits company that is coming into perfection, our ministry is to bring those around us to perfection. And then eventually, the whole human race will be perfected, and there will not be any more courts or abortion cases or anything like that. But the two ministries will exist side by side, the spiritual ministry of God and the carnal ministry of God. They are both important, so long as God anoints them.

 

COMMENT: Will the Sons of God be involved in helping the ones that are desolate and have no place to stay, and no food, and all that?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, they will help them; you see, amongst the desolate, some of them are called to be Sons of God. Now, the ministry of the Sons of God, when he sees a desolate person, is to say, Rise up and be healed. And I am convinced that, when Peter said that to (well, there were a couple of cases in the Scripture where he said, Arise and be healed) that a lot more happened than that the man's legs were healed.

 

There is one Scripture that says Peter perceived the man had faith to be healed. And I said, Lord, what does that mean? And the Lord said to me, That man had the root of Christ in him. And when Peter spoke to him, his words were spirit, and his words were life, and the root of Christ in him was quickened and immediately stood up. And the physical expression of that spiritual quickening was that his legs were healed.

 

So the ministry of the Sons of God is to bring forth the life of Christ in men. And for those people on the face of the earth who are not spiritually prepared, if this is not the hour of their quickening, then, well, the Sons of God may have the ability to have mercy on them. I do not really know the details. But basically, they will be the ministry for the bride Church. But the bridegroom company, the Sons of God company, they are sent to those who are to be raised up into the heavenlies with them.

 

And this process will continue until every human being on the face of earth has been raised up into the heavenlies. But it is going to take more than 1,000 years. So the Lord is going to have a ministry in the earth, during that time, that will minister to the people whose hour it is not yet to be caught up into the high realms of the spirit.

 

The second scriptural witness to God's admonition to married people, to give up sexual intercourse in marriage when they are spiritually caught up to the high realm of God's Spirit, also known as the kingdom of God, is Deuteronomy 19:15, Moses speaking: "And he said unto the people, 'Be ready against the third day. Come not at your wives,'" which means do not have sexual intercourse with your wives.

 

And the third day is a scriptural reference to the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. I cannot go onto the whole teaching on this message, but I will tell you that it is 1,000 years to man what is one day to the Lord. So therefore, it is only two days since Jesus Christ was crucified. And His spiritual resurrection, also known as the second coming, is happening on the third day, which we are entering into now, the third 1,000-year period.

 

And for those believers who are entering into this age of the kingdom, the admonition of the Lord is, "Come not at your wives." However, you cannot enter into this place by your own will. You can only enter in because Jesus Christ has called you. So if you give up sexual intercourse in your marriage without Jesus calling you, and without your mate's permission, you shall be guilty before the Lord of doing harm to your mate. But if Jesus calls you, you come. So lend yourself to prayer, and make sure it is God.

 

Transcribed by VerbalFusion, 08/29/22

1st Edit 9/12/22, rh