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Brethren, let us take a look at this conversation that is exciting me so much. I was actually in a text conversation with the wife of the man that I told you about, and it was actually a business exchange.


Pastor Vitale Texted:  "I cannot stop thinking about the questions that your husband asked me yesterday. They were profound questions, and I am really looking forward to answering the questions you both have for me. You may think that this is a strange thing to hear me say, but I have been waiting for you, for the two of you, for 45 years. Everything that the Lord has taught me, and all the training that He has given me, has been for you. I can answer all of your questions."


Pastor Vitale Comments:  I am so excited that I can answer their questions.


S. Texted:   "Wow, I feel like that is a lot of pressure on you and us. By the way, I was thinking about the crystals and did not quite understand why you reacted the way you did. So I did my research, and I do understand where you are coming from. However, I do not worship them or use them as talisman."…


Pastor Vitale Comments:  Well, what had happened? Brethren, her husband was working in my house. He was working on my bathroom, which is now finished. Praise God. And there were a few manifestations there, not the least of which I told you about, that the shower door broke. So she came down and brought some crystals, and she gave one to him, and she offered one to me. And I told her that I could not take it. And she said, "Why?" I said, "Because it would be idolatry for me."


The exchange with the two of them has been my dream. I am so used to coming up against the pride in the believers in the Church. It is just annoying, painful, grievous, unpleasant, the pride and the competition that I come up against from believers.


There is one woman right now, she is supposed to be studying here. And I think that she is very spiritual. I think she knows it. And she is in such competition with me; she cannot even get near to me without manifesting. And it is ridiculous because there is absolutely no comparison between this ministry and her ministry. I am just giving you that as an example. This ministry is 32 years old. By and large, that is what I am up against. Either they reject me outright because they think the doctrine is wrong, or they are in competition with me, or both. And these people are not impressed by the Church. They are not in the Church, so they are not impressed by the Church. They are not in competition with me; they are just wondering what I am because I am so different from the Church world.


So anyway, she was not offended that I did not take the crystal. But apparently, she went home and researched it and wanted to understand more than what I had answered her.


S. Texted:   "… So I did my research, and I do understand where you are coming from. However, I do not worship them or use them as talismans.


To me, God created earth and all that is within: rocks, plants, water, animals, people, et cetera. All that He has created is for us. To me, an essential oil or a rock or a crystal or dirt, ocean, earth, etc. has healing properties or energy given to us by God to help heal us. I do not look at a crystal and say, 'Please, crystal, help protect me.' I ask God to protect or heal me and use nature to help."


Pastor Vitale Comments:  So what she is saying is that nature, to her, is the mediator. The problem is that Christ Jesus is the mediator. So using nature to help you becomes an idol.


S. Texted:   "As an example, you use herbal supplements to help you, as do I, and I use essential oils as well. They come from the same place. When I feel literally as though my energy has been drained, I look to be grounded by earth elements, rocks, crystals, the ocean, sitting on the grass, ground, leaning on a tree. The energy there created by God helps to heal me. They are in no way instead of God."…


Pastor Vitale Comments: Well, they are instead of God. She just does not understand that she is using them as a mediator.


S. Texted:    "…They are in no way instead of God, but a creation from God that helps me, positive energy and properties that were God's creation. Does that make any sense to you?"


Pastor Vitale Comments:  And I answered her. Please note that I am not in a power play with her, and I am not looking to contradict her. I am looking to have a positive conversation where she is entitled to give me her opinion.


Pastor Vitale Texted:  "It makes a lot of sense to me," I said. "But the Scripture says 'There is a way that seems right to man, but the end thereof is destruction.'…


Pastor Vitale Comments: She was not offended by that. You cannot have an intelligent conversation with somebody if they are going to manifest when you respond, and that has been my experience. I get into conversations with people, some of them in God, some of them not in God. They tell you whatever they want to tell you, and you come back with an answer like that, and they are offended at you.


I was at the rabbi's house for dinner one night, and this woman was there who I happened to know. She is in the New Age. A lot of secular Jews are in the New Age, and they are in Buddhism, because they are looking for spirituality, but they do not want to observe the law. So a lot of his guests are secular. And I knew her because we had had a conversation previously. I had given her one of my messages. She had wanted some kind of interaction with me, and I was trying to tell her that I am not your typical New Age person. "Why do you not test one of my messages before we go any further?" And she listened to one of my messages, and she realized that I was not what she thought I was.


So now this was two years later, and she was pretty much saying to me, if you read between the lines, "You are very spiritual, and you could have a place in the New Age." And I said to her, "Well, that is the worship of another god." Here she is trying to elicit me; she is trying to recruit me. And all I said was, "Well, that is another god."


And she was so offended, and she did not talk to me for the rest of the evening. At that point, the call came to go to the table for dinner, because we were lounging in the rabbi's house. And while you are sitting there talking to somebody, and the call to dinner comes, usually you walk in with the person, do you not? She would not walk in with me. She as much as said, "Uh-uh." And she went on without me and did not talk to me for the rest of the evening.


But this person had a normal response. She gave me her opinion; I gave her my opinion, and she was not offended by it. And I was not offended by her opinion. We are having an intellectual conversation. I am not there to capture her. I am not there to convince her that she should become a born-again Christian. We are having an intelligent two-way conversation, which is almost impossible with the people in the Church or the people in the synagogue or a lot of other people that I have met. To me, this experience is unique, and that is why I am so excited. I love conversations like this because God’s truth prevails. The truth prevails.


I will be corrected on occasion, but in this occasion, we were talking about crystals, and I know that it is not God, and the truth prevailed in her reason. I was just talking to her. I was not saying, "I have got to get this woman; I have got to get her to believe it; I have got to defeat her; I have got to get her to stop using crystals." I had no such thought. It was an intellectual conversation, and she drew the right conclusions. Or she has not actually reached a conclusion yet, but she followed the path properly; she is someone who just wants truth.


There is a whole mess of them out there waiting for us, waiting for what we have been studying all these years for, and that is what I am all excited about. The Lord is moving this ministry into the public forum. It is so exciting, so exciting.

I gave her the Scripture that says, "There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof is destruction."


Proverbs 14:12

12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.



I was not wanting to fight with her but wanting to give her the Scripture in a manner that would be as easy for her to swallow as possible.


I went on to say,


Pastor Vitale Texted: "God sent Jesus to give us life, and we can attain that life by following His instructions, and they do not include what you say, although, yes, it makes a lot of sense, and there should be no pressure. I am so happy at the thought of having honest exchanges with you."


Pastor Vitale Comments:  Brethren, I was not thinking this through. This was the anointing on me. This is the Lord. This is what came out.


And I am sure that my sincerity came across to her. I am all excited about this honest exchange.


S. Texted:  "So, then taking an herbal supplement would also not be OK?"


Pastor Vitale Texted:  "Taking an herbal supplement is not the same as seeking the energy of a tree, if I understood you correctly. The key word is energy. Well, the energy that we need is Jesus, is in Jesus Christ. The energy of the tree is the soul energy of this world, soul. It is different than the energy of God. His energy is spiritual energy. The creation was soul and spirit from the beginning. But Adam fell because he chose soul energy instead of spiritual energy."


Pastor Vitale Comments:  That is the Holy Zygote. And the soul power, that was called Rahab.


S. Texted:  "But to me, it is His energy. I guess I am not explaining it right."


Pastor Vitale Texted:  “I understand what you are saying. There was soul energy and spiritual energy. Adam chose the soul energy and lost his immortality and fell into this mortal world where we all die. So, you get a temporary benefit from that soul, and that is your soul energy. So, you get a temporary energy from that soul energy, but the end of the matter is that we all die, where Jesus came to give us life."


S. Texted:  "Even scientifically, almost everything is made up of some energy, of some type of energy, interactions between the different types of energy occur all the time."


Pastor Vitale Texted:  "True,"...


Pastor Vitale Comments:  I am trying to agree with her or validate her whenever I can, and what she said is true.


Pastor Vitale Texted:  "...the energy that Jesus brings is beyond this world. It comes from the immortal world. The children call it heaven, but we are not going there, it is coming here." 


S. Texted:  "Ah, to me, the immortal world is not of God."


Pastor Vitale Texted:  "There is an immortal world that is not of God."…  


Pastor Vitale Comments:  Her information is not wrong; she is lacking information. And if she is a true seeker of the truth, when the truth is added, she will put it together. Her information is anti-Christ. It is a partial information. So when I add the truth to it, anyone that is honest in their heart and really wanting to know the truth, anti-Christ will die, and truth will come alive in that person's mind. And this is what is happening here.


Pastor Vitale Texted:  "There is an immortal world that is not of God. The definition of immortal is without end; it is so great that you cannot perceive the end. There is an immortal world that is so great that we cannot perceive the end, but when Jesus returns to the earth it will roll up like a scroll and cease to exist. It is an illegal immortal world. I think I mentioned it to you there were three worlds of creation, or three worlds that are a part of the creative process. This world is called the World of Action where invisible consciousness takes form. It is above the illegal immortal world. It is illegal now, but in the resurrection, it will be filled with godly souls."...


S. Texted:  "Why is it called illegal? Again, a negative connotation."


Pastor Vitale Comments:  "...And above that world, above that illegal world is where Jesus is. And Jesus is the resurrected, righteous animal. He is Adam; Adam is an animal. Jesus' personal soul is an animal soul."


Pastor Vitale Texted:  "Because the souls there are dead, the world is illegal."


Pastor Vitale Comments:  She wanted to know why it is illegal.


Pastor Vitale Texted:  "Because the souls there are dead, but they reveal themselves as God to people who do not know better."…


Pastor Vitale Comments:  And now this is where it really got tough for her.


Pastor Vitale Texted:  …"Death is separation from God."


Pastor Vitale Comments:  Because everyone thinks that death is the death of the body.


Pastor Vitale Texted:  "Death is separation from God, and life is attachment to God. The souls in the World of Forms are not attached to God."


S. Texted:  "So these dead souls will be cast out of the world?"


Pastor Vitale Comments:  She is looking for the negative message that is in the Church. She is looking for it from me. So she is asking, "So these dead souls will be cast out of the world?"  


Pastor Vitale Texted:  "I believe they will be swallowed up into life. The resurrection took place in a high spiritual place, and it is descending into this world like a tsunami. Life is swallowing up death."


S. Texted:  "I do not understand that."


Pastor Vitale Texted:  "In other words, that which is disconnected from God is being reconnected. What specifically do you not understand? That life is swallowing up death?"


Pastor Vitale Comments:  This is what people need. They really cannot go into the website and get their answers. They need a personal interaction. And our job is to find out what they do not understand and answer that question. Our job is not to show them what we know, how smart we are, how intelligent we are. Our job is not to prove that it is God speaking through us. Our job is to be a teacher, to put our finger on where they are going off, what they cannot understand.


And sometimes the person cannot say "I do not understand." We have to realize that they do not understand and go back to the point where they lost their ability to follow us. But she made it easy for me. I said, "What specifically do you not understand? That life is swallowing up death?"


S. Texted:  "Yes."


Pastor Vitale Texted:  "Life is attachment to God. Death is separation from God. So there is existence that is actually death. You can be dead and still exist. That is what we experience in this world. This world is dead, but we exist."


S. Texted:  "So if I am understanding correctly, those who believe in God are life, and those who do not are death?"


Pastor Vitale Comments:  She was coming from the Church doctrine: You people think that you are elites because you believe in God. You are going to heaven, and we are all going to hell. That is where she is coming from. We have to answer to the error of the Church. We have to answer to the error that the Church has been preaching for however many years since it went off.


Pastor Vitale Texted:  "No. Give me a minute to think of how I can make this simple."


S. Texted:  "I am not understanding. LOL (laughing out loud)."


Pastor Vitale Comments:  So I did not realize it at the time, but I think she must have gone into the website or the YouTube channel, and not been able to understand me.


So my next text is an attempt to help her with this extremely difficult concept that death is not the death of the body; it is the death of the soul.


Pastor Vitale Texted:  "You are doing great. Let me ask you some questions so that I can come up with an answer that you can accept. Even if you do not believe it, can you accept these questions hypothetically? Only those who are attached to God are alive. And belief is not attachment.”


Pastor Vitale Comments:  Belief does not attach you to God. Jesus said, "Only believe," but belief does not attach you to God. When you believe, it establishes the soul tie with Him so that He can move upon you to attach you to Him. And how does He attach you to Him? We are attached to Him by having like thoughts. So to be attached to God, you have to study and learn about Him. Jesus said, "Come learn of me." That is what He said, so that we can share His thoughts. And that attachment is in shared thoughts, not in belief. Belief establishes a relationship."


Mark 5:36

36 As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe.



Matthew 11:29

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.



S. Texted:  "So what is attachment?"


Pastor Vitale Comments:  That excited me.


Pastor Vitale Texted:  "That is the right question. Attachment is through agreement of mind. In other words, we experience life when we think what He thinks."


S. Texted:  "Think what He thinks?"


Pastor Vitale Texted:  "What God thinks. Adam acquired the thought process of the soul and died. He died to immortality and now exists in the state of mortality called death. Death does not necessarily mean cessation of existence."...


Pastor Vitale Comments:  So this is so interesting and exciting to me that it started as a conversation about crystals, which are obviously not of God, and it wound up talking about God. I do not even know how it happened. I just followed my nose. I did not sit down to minister to her. We were talking about crystals, and it just went in the right direction. We were two people having an honest conversation, it went in the right direction. And that is what is exciting me so much.


Maybe you have an idea how hard it is to find a conversation like this in the Church or in the world. People, they just rise up. They manifest against you. They walk away; some of them just walk away from me. Some of them compete with me. Some of them argue with me.


I have been waiting for something like this for 45 years, and that is the truth. It is very, very rare. And to have it from an outsider; these two people are the first people I have ever had such a conversation with, truly seeking the truth, no hidden agenda. They do not have any agenda.


And I do not have any agenda other than that I love communicating on this level. I love talking about God. I love talking about the Word of God. I love spiritual truth. And if you are not fighting with me, I love talking to you. It is a pastime for me. I love it. No agenda other than it makes me happy. If something good comes out of it; if you find God, if you learn something from me, praise the Lord. But I am happy in the conversation.


Pastor Vitale Texted:  …"Death does not necessarily mean cessation of existence. The only source of life in the universe is God. So to be truly alive, which means to not die, is to think like He thinks and to believe what He believes. This is different than 'believing in God.'"


Pastor Vitale Comments:  Now, this is key, and I put it in quotes. This is different than “believing in God.” To think like He thinks, and to believe what He believes, this is different than believing in God.


Pastor Vitale Texted:  "So since it is impossible for us to think what God thinks, He has given us His Son to be a new soul and a new mind that can think like God thinks.  That new soul and new mind is called Christ Jesus, and He is inside of me, and He is talking to you now. And He wants to be inside of you."


Pastor Vitale Comments:  Did Jesus not say something like that to the woman at the well? (John Ch 4)


Brethren, it should not be any surprise because Christ Jesus in me talked to the woman at the well. And there is nothing new under the sun, in people's curiosity, in people's desire for truth. There is nothing new under the sun.


So she is asking questions similar to what the woman at the well asked. And the one who answered the woman at the well is inside of me talking to her. And He said the same thing to her. "He is in me, and He is talking to you now." I am so excited.


Then she answers, "That does not sit with me. No one can think and believe what God thinks or believes because we are not of Him." So she did not understand my previous text; it went over her head. I already told you that we cannot do it. That is why God has given us His Son, and a new soul and a new mind, so that we can do it. So that went over her head.


S. Texted:  "It does not sit right with me. No one can think and believe what God thinks or believes because we are not of Him."…


Pastor Vitale Comments:  And she is right.


S. Texted:  …"You believe Jesus has risen, been resurrected. If I am understanding you correctly, one would have to allow Jesus inside of them to be 'alive.'"


Pastor Vitale Comments:  Well, that is true. it is through connection. So now she   follows it up with the anti-Christ thought.

S. Texted:  "Then those who have allowed Jesus inside of them become almost a hive mind, no individuality."


Pastor Vitale Comments:  And I thought that was so interesting because I know that, on multiple occasions when I have been preaching to you, I have responded to that question. I do not know if anyone that listens to me has had that question in their mind or not, but no one ever spoke it to me. And on several occasions, I have addressed that issue and told you that it is not a hive mind, that Christ is infinite creativity, so He can be creative in a completely individual way in each and every one of us.


Actually, our personality, which is our soul, restricts Him. His creativity in us is restricted by our carnal mind and our emotional personality. He has infinite creativity, enough for each one of us to be infinitely creative in our own sphere. So to think in terms of a hive mind, that is the carnal mind. I know I have told you that. It sounds like a terrible thing that we will all be the same. How frightening. Except that God is not a man. He is not a man.


S. Texted:  …"So then what we are told, that God loves all His children, would not be true. Only those who accept Jesus inside them are those who will be saved."


Pastor Vitale Comments:  And that is what the Church teaches, right?  


S. Texted:  "How does one allow Jesus into them?"


Pastor Vitale Texted:  "With regard to your first sentence, true."…


Pastor Vitale Comments:  What was her first sentence? "No one can think and believe what God thinks or believes because we are not of Him." And I said, "True." So I told her again. She did not hear me the first time; I told her again.


Pastor Vitale Texted:  …"That is why we need His mind, which He is willing to give us freely. No hive mind. There is no such thing as a hive mind in God. It is the exact opposite. He is a liberator. He frees us from sickness, pain and death and all the evils of this world, and releases our creativity."


S. Texted:  "If we think and believe what God thinks maybe I am taking that too literally."


Pastor Vitale Comments:  She is really, genuinely trying to understand me. You can do so much with a person like that that genuinely wants to understand you. So much can be accomplished.


And, brethren, when you are ministering to somebody, you get blessed. I got blessed as much as she got blessed. It is a mutual exchange. The person that ministers on a level thinking that they just have to make their point, that they have to get through to the person to be satisfied, you do not even understand the joy that can come from an honest exchange and from your relationship with God; having the answers for someone who is new and actually seeking truth. The joy and the satisfaction are in the honest exchange, that your ministry to them is bringing forth godly responses from them, even if what they say is not godly. It is a godly response based upon the best that they can do at the time. That is what my satisfaction is, not that I convinced her of something that she did not believe before. That was not my agenda. I was enjoying the conversation.


You know what the Buddhists say: It is not the end of what happens; it is the journey. The greatness is in the journey. So many people acquire greatness, and then they are bored because it was the journey that stimulated them. It is the journey, brethren. These people belong to God. We are to befriend them and have honest communication with them, and He does whatever He wants with them. We introduce them to Him. That is what we do, and then He takes over.


It would not surprise me at all (this woman is so spiritual); I really expect the Lord to be talking to her. He has probably been talking to her all along; she just did not know who He was. I absolutely expect that, last night after this conversation, and this morning, that He was communicating with her.


Pastor Vitale Texted:  "No hive mind. It is the exact opposite. He is a liberator. He frees us from sickness, pain and death and all the evils of this world and releases our creativity.”


Pastor Vitale Comments:  This woman happens to be in a lot of pain, physical pain.


S. Texted:  "If we think and believe what God thinks, maybe I am taking it too literally." So I went on to explain, "God's mind is infinite. The potential for creativity is infinite. All of the creativity that we now have would be amplified. Each of us would be an infinite expression of His nature, which is righteous. And righteousness does not bring death; it brings life. Right now, we are a shadow of what we are supposed to be."


Pastor Vitale Comments:  And the world knows that we only use one-tenth of our brain.


So there was a long absence, a long period of silence. Apparently, she was called away by her children or her dogs. But it was so long, at this point, I thought that I was overwhelming her.


Pastor Vitale Texted:  “You can tell me at any time if you have had enough for tonight. This stuff is not easy."


Pastor Vitale Comments:  And I knew that, even though it was an honest exchange, that I had taught her things that she did not know. And I had not only taught her, but my teaching had contradicted things that she previously believed. So although I did it in a godly manner, and my motive was pure, the reality was that what I was saying was challenging and correcting what she had previously believed.


So in the past, I have had people not be able to take it. They manifest, or bad things happen. We say it in a loving way. They swallow down too much, and they vomit. And she just seemed so strong and so stable and un-angry and unafraid in her communication with me that I thought maybe she had had enough. But what was happening was that it was underground, and it was attacking me as anxiety. As I told you earlier, I am not prone to anxiety at all. When I prayed about it, that is what I got. It is either one of them or both of their anxiety.


And again, it may not be them but their personality. The anxiety is coming from the primordial king in them. Why? He is coming face to face with Christ Jesus. Brethren, the primordial king is in jail in that body. I hope you all understand that. The primordial kings are unattached to God, and they are incarnate in the human beings that sin every day, which sin affects them in a negative way. They are under judgment. They are in jail. And the one that put them there is now confronting them, and maybe they do not understand what it means or where they are going. Or maybe all this false doctrine is coming out of the primordial kings themselves; they think they are going to be punished or whatever. I do not know. But the reaction to Christ Jesus is anxiety and fear. We read that in the Scripture, when Jesus approached the Gadarene demoniacs.


S. Texted:  "I have a little more time. It is OK, just chaotic here with the kids."


Pastor Vitale Comments:  She sounds so stable; it is amazing to me.


S. Texted:  "I keep picturing that old commercial: 'Calgon, take me away.'"


Pastor Vitale Comments:  I am not familiar with that commercial.


S. Texted:  "OK, I get it. No hive mind."


Pastor Vitale Comments:  She drew a conclusion that she accepted what I said that her thought was not accurate.


S. Texted:  "So then what we are told, that God loves His children, would not be true? Only those who accept Jesus inside them are those who will be saved? And how does one allow Jesus inside them?"


Pastor Vitale Texted:  "Jesus loves everyone and desires that all should be saved."...


S. Texted:  "But only those who accept Him into them?"


Pastor Vitale Texted:  ..."But He does not force us to do what is necessary to be saved. He wants everyone to be saved, but in order to be saved, you have to do it on His terms, and He does not force us to accept His terms."


Pastor Vitale Comments:  That is what I told her.


S. Texted:  "OK, good, because I will never be a saint."


Pastor Vitale Texted: "None of us ever will be either."


S. Texted: "So what is necessary?"


Pastor Vitale Comments:  Brethren, that is right out of the Scripture. That is what the young ruler asked Jesus, and that is what a couple of people asked Paul in the New Testament. "What do I have to do to be saved?" I am just so excited.


This is so much better than someone coming out of fear and you saying to them you are going to say the sinner's prayer and scare them half to death with going to hell. This is what it is supposed to be. This is how Jesus wants it. We just tell them the truth, and then it is up to Him. We are the mediators. We are Christ Jesus. We are the mediators. We are introducing them to Jesus by His doctrine. Then He approaches them, and it becomes a personal relationship, whatever happens; if they hear Him or they do not hear Him, however it goes. That is our job. We are mediators. We introduce the people to Jesus by His truth.


He wants a relationship with everybody. But in order to have a relationship, it cannot be one-sided. The people have to do something. What do I have to do? You have to accept His terms. Then she is going to ask me what they are. "What are His terms?" He said, "Come and learn of Me." He wants to teach us.


Pastor Vitale Texted:  "Jesus said, to the person that asked him that question, ‘Keep the commandments. Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, your mind and your soul, and love your neighbor as yourself.' The problem is that we are not capable of doing it, so we need His soul, His emotions and His mind to do it. And He is willing to give it to us on His terms."


S. Texted: "Most people do not love themselves."


Pastor Vitale Comments: As I was thinking about this conversation (it was either last night or this morning), I was wondering, did I make a mistake? Brethren, I do not know who is out there. It is beyond our normal people here, so I do not know who you are. I do not know what you know. Something about me is drawing you to my messages.


What we are talking about here is a covenant. Jesus wants to enter into a covenant with each of us. He wants to enter into an agreement with us that can be likened to a marriage vow. He wants to enter into a covenant or a contract with us. And wherever you have a contract, there are obligations on both sides of the contract.


So I am thinking along those terms in review of what I said to the woman. I am thinking, well, when Jehovah entered into a contract with national Israel, He entered into the whole nation of Israel. Today, Jesus is entering into a personal relationship on an individual basis. So I am thinking, how did it go with the old covenant? Jehovah took Moses up a mountain.


I thought about it from this point of view: that ministry to the people should be telling them that Jesus wants to enter into a contract with us, a covenant.


So how did it work with Israel? Well, Moses went up to the mountain, and he came down. It sounds so awesome, both in the King James translation and in the movie. God came down and He blasted the Ten Commandments. "Thou shalt have no other gods before you." It sounds so serious and frightening. And we are told in the Scripture that the people were terrified. They said, "Do not let God come near to us; we will die." It was a very frightening experience for them under the old covenant.


And I said, I did not tell her that she had to obey the commandments. And then I stopped to think, but I did tell her that. Jesus made it simple. I did tell her that. "Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, your mind and your soul, and love your neighbor as yourself." All of the commandments are under that. So that frightening experience that national Israel had, with the Ten Commandments getting blasted out at them, under this new covenant with Jesus, it comes forth as something not frightening and simple to understand. If not simple to do, it is simple to understand. I did give her that. I did do it.


Brethren, what we do with new people that are inquiring should be a parallel to what happened to the children of national Israel. And God said to Moses, "Bring the people out." And the Scripture says, "And the people stood at the front of Mount Sinai to meet God." And the way they met God was the Ten Commandments came out. Well, this woman stood at the foot of Mount Sinai in me, and I introduced her to God, whose name is Jesus. That is what I did. She had a Mount Sinai experience, and I gave her the law. I did give her the law.


And then what happened next? The Hebrew children listened to the commandments, and what happened next? They agreed to the covenant. They said, "We will hear you, and we will obey." That was the covenant. God said, "This is the law." And the people said, "We will hear you," meaning, "We will do our best to understand what you are saying, and we will do it."


That is the covenant, brethren, not even confessing past sins. Say the sinner's prayer; repent of every sin that you have ever done. Where is that in the Scripture? Well, they do say in it the Scripture. In the New Testament, it does say, "Repent." Repent. What does that mean? It means He wants to teach you, and you need to understand that He is right, and you are wrong, even if you do not understand it. That was how I told her to repent. Repent. We have been wrong, and God is right, and He wants to teach you. We will hear Him, and we will obey. You do not have to go through all the bad things that you did before you came in there. The day you meet Jesus, it is a new day.


Repent. I am going to say it again. "Repent" means you acknowledge that He is right and you are wrong, even if you do not understand it. Now from this day forward, you are going to be willing. You are willing to learn from Him. That is what "repent" means in this context.


As your program with Jesus, as your personal relationship with Him, progresses, it will involve confessing sins that you committed in the past, as He is converting your soul into His soul. But this is a new person. They are a beginner. You want them to be pouring out their guts as to what they did? Maybe if they have a need to do it, maybe. But God is not asking for that.


He said, "I am going to teach you. This is my law. You want to covenant with me; I am going to teach you, and you learn from Me. And if there is something in your mind that you do not understand, you believe that I am right and you are wrong." That is the covenant. That is the covenant. That is the covenant.


Well, Sheila, just yesterday, you said the covenant was you confess your sins and Jehovah forgives you. Well, it is the same thing. I did not say anything different. Maybe you say it one way to a 2-year-old and another way to a 10-year-old. So the person that is well along in the program of having their soul converted, you give them that understanding. But the most basic form of it is you admit that God is right and you are wrong.


God help us all. God help us all. No wonder He has mercy on us. Look at this state that our mind is in. What is going to happen if you go to sleep tonight, and you die in your sleep, and you will be in hell forever with no chance of getting out of it? That is the mind of the Devil.


Who is the Devil? The Devil is the power of the soul called Rahab who joined with the personal soul, lacking the wisdom of God. It is that old Serpent, the Devil. It is that old Serpent. The Devil is the power of the soul, and Satan is the Holy Zygote that is now corrupted by the power of the soul, joining with your personal soul that was born out of that corruption, swimming in the mess of your own fallen wisdom, hateful and evil and frightening and penetrating and designed to control.


If I can make you afraid, I can control you. "Come running into my church," or "Believe like I believe." That is not what Jesus is saying, and Jehovah did not say it to national Israel, and Jesus is not saying it to you, and He is not saying it to anyone out there. He is saying, "Come and learn from me." Come and learn from me. Be prosperous, be healed, be well, be translated from death unto life. And I will give you as much information as you can tolerate as you walk.


Jesus said, in the Scripture, "I have much to tell you, but you cannot bear it now." Well, we talk about it here. What is unbearable, or what was unbearable then, we talk about it here. Well, why do you tell these babies, these spiritual babies, what they cannot bear? You tell them, "Repent. God is right, and you are wrong. Come learn from Me." The love of God, brethren. The love of God, the love of God.


She said, "But most people do not love themselves." I said, "True." So she said, "So back to how?" That is it, question one. "Follow the commandments?" And I said, "Yes. 'All of the law and the prophets hang on two commandments,' Jesus said. Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself. Do not do harm to anyone. Do not do harm to God because, when you sin, you violate God. And do not harm your neighbors."


I was so blessed as I walked to my car this morning because I had texted my next-door neighbor who wanted to see the bathroom when it was done, so I texted her that it was done.


I have been living next door to this woman for about 20 or 25 years now, and we have had our ups and downs. She has been mad at me a few times. A couple of times, I was guilty of making noise. Other times, I was not guilty. One day she called up Xxxx, screaming that there was a leak, and told her that it was coming from my bathroom. And Xxxx told her, "She is not even here. She is in South Carolina."


So, we have had our ups and downs. She has blamed me for a few things, and I have never held it against her, but I have sought peace with her. And we have been at peace for the last couple of years. And she actually asked me to help her at one point, and I did respond. She just wanted me to come into her house. She was afraid of something, without getting into the whole story.


And she texted me back today and said that she was so happy for me, that she was absolutely happy for me at this new bathroom. And I thought that was nice, but I was rushing to get ready.


And what I did not tell you also happened before that, happened the day before. I told you about my neighbor, not my immediate neighbor on the other side but two units down, who had come out drunk and tried to start a fight with the contractor. And the contractor told me that he was and that neighbor came along and said hi to him. The contractor said he was so surprised. He just said, "Oh, hi." Well, I was not surprised. It was a spiritual crisis. It was a manifestation. I felt that it had broken in the spirit a couple of days ago, so it did not surprise me.


And then, even later that day or the next day, I was standing out in the common area, and my back was to the path, and this neighbor came up, and he called my name. And I turned, and he says, "Are you going somewhere, Sheila?" or something like that. And obviously, the translation was: "I am sorry." The man was drunk, and his wife manipulated him; told him a lie. He manifested.


So I heard him call my name, and I turned around. I said, "Oh, hi, how are you?" And I could see it. And that was my natural reaction. I really understand everything that happens, especially around me. Crazy things happen around me, around the anointing. And I could see it in his eyes; he was so grateful that I acted that way, that I was not holding it against him, that I was genuinely happy to see him, and that he was not capable of saying he was sorry, so I will accept that as an apology.


Pastor Vitale Texted: "Yes. 'All of the law and the prophets hang on two commandments,' Jesus said. 'Love God and love your neighbor as yourself.' In other words, when we stop doing harm to ourselves and to others, we will stop dying. But we cannot stop, but He can. So that is why we need Him to be our righteousness."...


Pastor Vitale Comments: I am sorry.


Pastor Vitale Texted: ..."And when we sow righteousness, we will reap righteousness."


Pastor Vitale Comments: I am crying on the air.


Pastor Vitale Texted: "And when we sow righteousness, we will reap righteousness, which includes all good things."


S. Texted: "Wow.”


Pastor Vitale Texted: "But we cannot do it without Him because there is a spiritual law that rules in this world. We reap what we sow, and we are incapable of never showing a wrong thought."


Pastor Vitale Comments: Or actually, we are incapable of never doing that.


S. Texted: "So if none of that it is impossible,"


Pastor Vitale Comments:  She meant "possible."


S. Texted: "So if none of that is possible without Him, but that is how you allow Him in, it is a Catch-22."


Pastor Vitale Texted: "I do not understand what you just said. How is it a Catch-22?"


S. Texted: "If to be saved is to follow Jesus, to allow Jesus inside of you, but the only way to do that is to follow the commandments, but you just said that we cannot follow the commandments without Him, then how is it possible to allow Him inside of us?"


Pastor Vitale Texted: "No, no."


Pastor Vitale Comments: And I was really, genuinely smiling. So this time, I thought that she would not understand that I did not mean her any harm.


Pastor Vitale Texted: "No, no. I am laughing out loud."


Pastor Vitale Comments: She would not be offended by me saying that I was laughing; it was a loving laugh.


Pastor Vitale Texted: "The only way to be saved is to allow Jesus inside of you, and the only way to follow the commandments is to allow Him inside of you. His soul and mind inside of us obey the commandments. He does through us what we cannot do."


S. Texted: "OK. Back to my original question, how do you allow Him inside of you?"


Pastor Vitale Comments: I must have said somewhere, "You just ask Him in."


S. Texted: "What? You ask Him to come in? How?"


Pastor Vitale Texted: "You ask Him to come in. And then you learn from Him. You ask Him to come in. And then you learn from Him, and you do what He says. We will hear, and we will obey."


S. Texted: "Well, it cannot be that simple."


Pastor Vitale Texted: "And then you learn from Him, and you do what He says, and what He says is not grievous. And it is all written down in a book."


Pastor Vitale Comments: And I said that because I knew in my mind, it was not just me telling her this it is all written down in a book, but it is written in code. And unfortunately, the Church has got a lot of it upside-down. But it is really that simple. You just have to be willing to learn from Him and implement what He teaches you in your life.


S. Texted: "What?"


Pastor Vitale Texted: "Basically, it is a personal relationship."


Pastor Vitale Comments: I do not know what that "what" meant.


Pastor Vitale Texted: "But basically, it is a personal relationship, and He wants you to get to know Him. He is a real person, but He is different than we are, and He is invisible. He is our higher soul. Our personality is the lower soul. He is already attached to God. So when we develop a personal relationship with Him, we become attached to God.


Oh, and there is one more thing I did not tell you. In order to learn from Him, we must admit that He is right, and we are wrong, even if we do not understand it at the moment."


S. Texted: "OK, that is a lot to think about. Thank you."


Pastor Vitale Texted: "I just want you to know that there is no pressure. What I meant by what I said was that you and your husband are classic seekers of truth. You are very unique. There are not many like you around, and you may be the first ones that I have ever met."


Pastor Vitale Comments: People that do not have an agenda, that is what I meant. That is what I meant, that I am so excited that I can answer your questions. In other words, I am not excited that you are coming to the Lord (she has not come yet), but I do believe that the Lord is drawing both of them. I do not know what is going to happen. All of my excitement is that I can answer their questions with the right answers, with the answers of God.


Pastor Vitale Texted: "And I am so excited that I can answer your questions. I have been studying all of these years, and I am now prepared to answer difficult questions in a simple way."


Pastor Vitale Comments: That is it. That was the end of the conversation.


I hope you are as excited as I am. Will they come to the Lord? I personally think they will, but that is not my job. I executed the job, and I think I did a fantastic job. I think I get an A. That is what I am all excited about. My excitement is not dependent on their response. If they come to the Lord, I will rejoice with them. But my happiness is that I was able to do a job, and that God has given me a message that is a positive message.


And that is what is making me so happy.


And it has been very hard. This ministry has been very hard, dealing with sin, revealing sin in people that resented it or that attacked me or rejected me. It has been going on for so many years. And I have spoken to the brethren here more than once, people that are struggling, because we struggle. Those of us that have been part of this ministry for years, it is a very tough ministry. We are rejected by the Church. Our numbers are small, and now our last one or two conferences have been canceled. We do not have a lot of fellowship. There are not many that believe what we believe, and we are scattered all over the world. So our last two conferences have been canceled, and it is a very hard walk of dealing with our own sins and dealing with the manifestations of people that do not understand what they are doing, and rejecting you, and cursing you, and trying to shut down your ministry or pray down your ministry. It is a very hard walk.


So from time to time, I would speak to the brethren here and remind them that Pentecost was such a blessing. It was so exciting. We came to church; we saw people healed, people getting up out of wheelchairs. It was a very positive time in my life, being in Pentecost, and that was my youth. That was my spiritual youth, our spiritual youth.


And this is a young adulthood. Actually, it is the pregnancy that is so painful. But the day is coming that it will not be painful anymore because the Scripture says, "once the man child is born, that we have the joy that comes in the morning after the hard, dark night of pregnancy." It has been a very painful pregnancy, and now the joy is coming.


That is another witness that the man child is being born. The Son of Man is being born, the Son of Man. The whole concept, brethren, of the Son of Man, for the Son of Man to be in somebody, means that their ransom has been paid. It means that their soul has been overthrown, and the soul of the Lord Jesus Christ is now inhabiting their body. It is a positive "Body Snatchers." That is what it is.


So the sign that the joy is coming is the sign that the man child is being born because He is not being born in a moment. He is being born. The actual birth will appear to be sudden, but He has been being born in this ministry for 32 years. It has been a long pregnancy. And the actual labor of the birth has been long and hard. But the fact that the joy is here means that He has been born, but He could not have been being born fully because I am still struggling with my fingers going crazy and other infirmities. But He has been born.


It is in the very, very last stages. The joy has begun. The joy of ministering God's truth to people that, whether they know it or not, are desperate to hear it.


So that is my message for today. Are there any questions or comments that anybody has?


Comment:  My daughter and son were doing something with the subject of elements, and then as you were talking about crystals, it connected the two subjects in me. We as a family never talk about that stuff, or it never came to our conversations or anything. So to have it come up today right before this message was something.


Pastor Vitale Comments: Very interesting. So either they were touched by this conversation (which would not surprise me at all because your whole family is very spiritual), without the information that they needed to defend themselves against it, or it was just something that was lurking there that was stirred up. My guess is that they were touched by this conversation, and that they are really going to have to hear this. And now you are equipped to, however you are going to, minister it to your family; the counteraction to that spirit that entered into your house.


So look at that, brethren, how curses enter into our house in this subtle kind of way.


It is just another example of what I have been telling you, that we are getting more and more spiritual. I know how spiritual I am. Many of you, I only see a couple of times a year for the conferences, which we have not even had now. So you have to ask the Lord and judge yourselves. A lot of what comes into your mind or your emotions, it is not a question of is it you or your carnal mind or is it God. It could be somebody else's mind.


So that is why Paul said that we have to lay hold of every imagination, which really means every thought. We have to lay hold of every thought and discern whether or not it is God and bring it into captivity. If we do not know what it is, we have to ask Him. Certainly, if something foreign enters in, we need to ask, "Where did that come from?"


Now, in this case, it is Xxxx's family. Xxxx is an adult. Xxxx is still a minor, but Xxxx is a young adult, and she is in that household, so she is under that authority. So if Xxxx or her husband had missed this message and not heard this, do you understand what is being said? That, because they are spiritually attached to this ministry, this thought of this world entered into their children. And if the parents did not hear this message, which is now equipping them to counteract it, it could have brought serious curses into the lives of the whole family.


And Xxxx is fighting for her life right now, so I personally think that you were the target, Xxxx. That would be my guess, that you were the target, to try to hurt you in some way.


Wow, wow. So because of your faithfulness of listening to the message, you were saved, and your whole family was saved.


So we have to be diligent. The Scripture says we have to be diligent, brethren.


So I guess we are actually ending 15 minutes early today, brethren. It has been wonderful fellowshipping with you. I hope you are as happy as I am, and that we can stay happy, because happiness is in Jesus Christ. It means the man child has been born. Hallelujah. Forget about Christmas.


Comment: Well, I was really blessed by this, going over these text messages. It was just wonderful, and I am just so excited to see God working in those ways. And the part about where she talked about how we will be a hive mind and not an individuality. I never asked, "Would we not be a hive mind?" but I do remember asking you, "Will we lose our individuality?"


And there was something you preached recently where it cropped up a fear. And I was having fear and even crying. I talked to you, and you said, "That is your first Adam dying."


You said something in the message, that God is having a relationship with Him in us, that He is actually loving Himself in us. And I started thinking, Well, where are we? I thought that He loved us so much that He died for us, so I was confused about it. But I was having more than just the question, "Will we lose our individuality?" I was actually experiencing a fear that you said was from my first Adam afraid of dying. Afraid of losing individuality. You said, "Well, we are becoming Him." So I just wanted to say that. I asked that more than once.


Pastor Vitale Comments: Yes. Thank you. I know that question has been around, and that is a good point. But what Xxxx said was really profound, that our first Adam has a fear of dying, and He resists dying. And also what I had told her is that the Lord Jesus Christ is actually having a relationship with Christ Jesus in us. He wants to have a relationship with Himself. And she said, "Well, where are we in all this?" And the answer is that He, Christ Jesus in us, is swallowing up our soul, and we are becoming Him. We are Him, and He is us.


And at that point, we become the Son of Man. And at that point, when everything coming out of your mind and everything coming out of your mouth is from Christ Jesus, then you can say, "I am the Son of God, and I am the Son of Man." But when it is coming out of your carnal mind, it becomes sin for you to say it. So your life has to be given over and swallowed up by the Lord Jesus Christ for you to say that, or at least, at the moment that you say it, it is Him saying it in you.


So It was actually a crisis moment for me when the husband asked me, "Who are you?" And I said, "I am a teacher," and that answer was not good enough for him. I do not remember what the second question was, how it came out, but it occurred to me that I had to tell him I am a Son of God. I have never said that to anybody. And it was a moment of a crisis for me to declare something like that. That is a bold thing to say. I did not say "the" Son of God; I said, "I am a Son of God because the Spirit of God is in me."


And it was a crisis moment. I had to say it because that man wanted an answer. That man was looking at me with a serious intent in his eyes. He wanted to know who I was. And Christ Jesus in me wanted to answer him, so I had to let it come out of my mouth. And it was a real crisis moment for me, but he took it well, and it is just the truth. At the moment, anyway, that is who I was. I hope I am that way most of the time.


Comment: First of all, I want to tell you that I want to apologize for all I thought about you at first. I thought wrong, and I really want you to forgive me about that. And I really was blessed by your message today. It really uplifted me, and I really appreciate that. God bless you. Keep up the work.


Pastor Vitale Comments: You are absolutely forgiven. I love you very much in Christ.


Comment: Yeah. Sheila, I've been thinking my husband actually needed to hear this message. He never heard that from me, but heard it from you today.  I think he needed that.


Pastor Vitale Comments: He never heard what from you?

Comment: This beginner's message that you gave. And I told my husband, if he comes with honest questions, I can answer some of them. You will be able to answer more. But if he comes with these honest questions and lets go of the Church doctrine, God will feed him in a deeper way.


Pastor Vitale Comments: Amen. Amen. It is a great day.


Comment: Praise the Lord.


Pastor Vitale Comments: Praise the Lord. Amen.


Comment: And I thank God for my wonderful wife to help me.


Pastor Vitale Comments: Yeah. You two had some struggles there for a while, right? Amen. Amen.


Comment: Yes, that is true.


Pastor Vitale Comments: Well, all is well that ends well. I am very happy for your whole life as it is right now, in Jesus' name.


Comment: Thank you.


Pastor Vitale Comments: You are welcome.


Well, I will not try and end the ministry. Is there anyone else on the phone that I do not expect? Anybody else on the telephone or in the chat room or anywhere?


It is a great day. It is pouring rain here in New York; it is a terrible rain out there, but it does not mean anything to me. It is raining in the spirit. The Son of Man is born. Now the joy that cometh in the morning has begun. Hallelujah.


God bless you all. Have a wonderful rest of the day. If you are out of the country, and it is already evening, have a wonderful evening and sweet sleep. And may the wonderful Spirit that is on me touch you and heal you and forgive you of everything and bring you to a higher place today. In Jesus' name, Amen.


Comment: This message reminds me of the one you taught with the "Conversations with Nicole." And you put the conversations in a book with a lot of topics.


Pastor Vitale Comments: That is interesting because I think someone said something about it being put in a book, not in this meeting, but she said that to me. And I had the thought this morning of "Conversations with Nicole."


For those of you that might be interested, "Conversations with Nicole" is a book that I published, which is a series of email conversations that I had with a young woman that contacted me through the internet, and she had a lot of questions about deliverance and demons. And I answered her questions to the best of my ability, and we made a book out of it.


And I believe she was set free. But unfortunately, this was so typical at the time. That was years ago. It happened a long time ago. What was not at all uncommon at the time was, after she got set free, she then joined a traditional church. And I heard from her about a year or two later; she was trying to convert me to some Church doctrine, Christmas or something like that. I am really glad that she got help.


Transcribed by VerbalFusion, 11/13/20

1st Edit, sp 11/13/20

2nd Edit, bp 12/24/20

3rd Edit, rh 1/29/21


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Pastor Vitale's Bio

Sheila R. Vitale is the founding teacher and pastor of Living Epistles Ministries and Christ-Centered Kabbalah. In that capacity, she expounds upon the Torah (Scripture) and teaches Scripture through a unique Judeo-Christian lens.

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