Part 2 of 2 Parts

This Message Has Been Transcribed and Edited For
Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By
The LEM Transcribing and Editing Team.

 

Good afternoon, brethren. We have an unusual meeting today. I am really looking forward to it. There has been a very high spiritual attack against it, which is a witness that we are entering into a higher realm. To be honest with you, I could not initially see what is so high about this message that the attacks that are coming down should be coming down, but I think that I am not seeing with God’s eyes and that we are entering into a higher place where more power is going to be released to us. For those of us that embrace the teaching, this is purely optional, at least at this time. As far as I am concerned, it is purely optional.

The issue is the trespass offering and the spiritualization of the trespass offering. I have created for you a montage of my introductory comments on the spiritual application of the trespass offering. It was four messages, and this is the way the Lord works through me. He will introduce a new concept, not as whole message, but He will introduce it as a thought into a meeting, and then for the next few meetings He talks about it because we all need to absorb new ideas. That is the way He does it. Whether you agree with it or not, or whether you decide to implement it or not, if you are a member of this ministry, you should understand it.

There was one thing that the Lord wants me to make very clear to you, even before we watch the video, and that is this: there is no way that bringing a trespass offering to the priest, which is me, when you have sinned, is a vehicle to buying your forgiveness. That is absolutely incorrect thinking.

So, number one, I will have the responsibility of deciding whether or not to accept your trespass offering. You cannot just drop a check in the mail, or put an envelope in the offering bowl with the words trespass offering on it. That will not work. I have to accept your trespass offering. I have to speak to you about it. I need to ask you what it is for and give you my godly opinion, the opinion of my office that the issue you are dealing with is an appropriate issue to be dealt with. And number two, I need to discern that your heart is right in the whole issue, because there is no way that you can buy forgiveness.

Of course, this is a very radical teaching, for the church world that believes all of our sins are forgiven because of Jesus’ blood. Before I give you the intellectual application of the problem with the teaching, I am going to tell you this. All you have to do is look around and see the pain and the suffering in the church world: the sickness, the suffering, the early death, the divorce rate. How can any thinking person not recognize that something must be wrong? Nothing is wrong with God, and nothing is wrong with the promises of God; there is something wrong with our understanding.

The problem is that we cannot be forgiven if we have not recognized the sin, confessed it and repented. We are not forgiven for sins that we do not know about, and we are not forgiven for sins that we know about but are not convicted that we did something wrong. So once again, the false teaching in the Church is not only inadequate, but it is hurting and killing and causing many of God's people to be shipwrecked.

The main point that I am trying to make is that there is no way you can buy forgiveness. When you make a commitment to Jesus Christ, when you have faith in Jesus Christ and He is your Lord and Savior, your spirit is saved and your spirit is forgiven. The spirit is pierced, and joined to the bundle of life in the higher worlds where the Lord Jesus Christ is, but your soul, which is your personality, is not yet saved. The salvation of our soul is the fruit of having a plan of salvation and working out our salvation. It means overcoming the sins that are destroying us. I just want to make that very clear.

We are talking about the salvation of the soul. You cannot just drop a trespass offering into the mail or put it into Susan’s hand when I am not around. You have to come to me. I have to hear what the issue is, and I have to have a spiritual legal opinion as to whether or not the situation warrants a trespass offering and whether or not your heart is right. So there is no way that I will be taking your offering lightly, and I will not do this for anyone outside of the ministry.

The Lord has been teaching us here, brethren. I do not know how much you grasp. I know that I dump so much information on you. I do not know how much sticks with you, but less than a year ago the Lord brought up the issue of me marrying people, and brethren, I am in training just like you are. I have been telling you this over and over again. I thought at the time that if someone asked me to them, I could marry them, but the Lord clearly told me in the message that came out on adultery, I cannot do that, that it is a tremendous responsibility to marry two people. I will not marry two people that I do not know, that I do not have a relationship with, that I do not have meetings with to judge whether or not I think that they have a right reason for getting married, and that there is nothing there that would hinder me from marrying them. I have a big responsibility before I use my spiritual office to affect anybody or anyone in this world.

I really do not know why anything comes into my mind, but this morning I had a memory of a woman in the church that I was raised up in, she and her whole family went to this church, and they were there at every service. One service the whole family was missing and there was a strange spirit in the meeting, and it turned out that one of the women in the family married a man that the pastor had refused to marry her to. And I do not know if the man was already married and it was a bigamous marriage. Whether you know it or not, brethren, there is no prosecution in this country for bigamy unless somebody complains, and even then it is a hard case. I do not know whether he was already married or was very involved with another woman. And the woman that attended the church that I went to had agreed to marry him under these circumstances. She was fully apprised of this other woman and agreed to marry him.

On top of that, the pastor, who I loved dearly, became my great enemy when the Lord called me, and there was an incident, without going into the whole thing, where he did his best to turn the whole congregation against me. And this woman went along with it. I do not know whatever was said or done or prayed, but she became ill to the point of death, and after she recovered, the whole family pulled out of the church. One of the family members worked at the Department of Motor Vehicles and when I would see her, she barely said hello to me and put her head down. I do not know whether she was rejecting me or she was afraid of me. I do not know whether she thought I was aware of the situation, or she knew that they did something wrong and did not want any trouble with me. I do not know, but I have not seen the family in years. That is what came to my mind this morning.

I cannot exactly tell you why, but when I am getting ready to preach on something, I have a powerful memory like this, and there is a reason for it being in my mind. The message that I am giving you is that I am a responsible priest in a spiritual office. I do not marry people that I do not believe should be married. Before the Lord taught me this, it would have never occurred to me to pass a judgment on whether or not those people should be married. You ask me to marry you; I will marry you. But I cannot do that anymore, and neither can I take your trespass offering, in the same manner that I cannot take a love offering from you -- if I feel that your heart is not in the right place, or if I think that you are going use your offering to influence me in any way, I will not take your money. I think I made that as clear as I could possibly make it. This is a very serious business.

I do not know about you all, but I have to keep reminding myself to comprehend the maturity and the seriousness of what He is doing in this ministry. What makes it so difficult for me is that the wallpaper, the scenery, does not support the spiritual reality of what He is doing. For Him to be doing such profound things here, the carnal mind would expect the ministry to be much larger and be in much less humble physical circumstances, but we are not. The exterior does not line up with the interior of what God is doing here. If you cannot hear it, at least pray about it and ask the Lord to give you the witness as to how important it is what He is doing here. It is very important.

It is so interesting that the spiritual dimension of the ministry is reflected in my personal life. People find it very hard to believe that I am who I am or I do what I do, or even if they just have a fragment of a vision of who I am, they do not want to give me credit. I will tell you a few funny stories.

I recently gave a testimony, that the Lord told me to bring books to the two ladies in the billing department. One of those ladies was very nice -- actually, both of them said to me, I would have never guessed that you were a pastor. And I said, I know, I do not look like one.

And I visited a widow that I minister to on Saturday. It is really hard to talk to her because her conversation is usually not very godly, so I brought my computer. I thought I would show her my website and some of the things that the Lord is doing. So, I showed her the website and the article on Farrakhan, which is on main page of the CCK site. We also have a blog on the LEM site and the article is on the blog. I said, This is our blog, and I just did an article on Farrakhan. And she said to me, Oh, you copied it and pasted it from another site? And I said, No, I wrote it.

And she just looked at me. I have had a relationship with this woman for almost two years. I have given her my books and she knows that I travel for the ministry. I told her that we are dedicating the building this month. Yet she does not know that I write, that she would ask me, You copied and pasted the article? I told her, No, I wrote the article. I said, I write. And she is looking at me with this blank look on her face, and I said, I even do movie reviews sometimes. And she said, movie reviews?

I walked out of her house thinking there must be a veil over me. I used to think it was because I looked so young. I do not look so young anymore. What is the problem with people? She brags about her son-in-law, who is an eye surgeon. She brags about her granddaughter, who is a movie actress. She brags about her daughter. But I cannot be a writer? And when she has had my actual books in her hand? It is just mind-boggling.

So, if I am being challenged like this, surely you are being challenged to believe the seriousness and the depth of the government of God that is manifesting in this ministry. So I recommend that you ask the Lord to help you to see me, and you, because you are a part of this ministry. If you are not seeing the ministry correctly, you are not seeing yourself correctly. So I will pray for you all and for me, that the Lord should open our eyes and keep them open, that we should have an accurate understanding of the degree of the Spirit of God in this ministry, and an accurate vision of who we are in Christ Jesus.

Not who the scenery tells us we are, but who we are in Christ Jesus, and that the Lord will help you all and help me to believe who we are, to believe what we are a part of, and to behave accordingly, and to be open to the spiritual growth that will keep us in sync with the ministry, because the ministry is flying, brethren. We are actually outrunning time, if you can hear it. We are moving faster than time because we are from the future. We are moving faster than time, bringing something into this world, and then catching the world up. So I pray for you all, that you should see the truth and that you should not be blinded by the scenery or by other people’s images of you that they cannot believe who you are.

I have an old story from years and years ago. I received a letter from someone in North Carolina who had purchased my tapes, and they said, This was so funny. I had to write and tell you this, that we purchased your tapes and my whole family was sitting around to listen to the tape. You started talking, and we thought you were the receptionist. We were just waiting and waiting and waiting, until we finally realized what you were saying, that you had to be the pastor, but we thought that you were the receptionist introducing the message. Of course, wherever we go they think June is the pastor. No one ever thinks that I am the pastor.

So, if I am having this kind of trouble, what kind of trouble are you having, believing who you are and how important you are? This is not to puff up your pride, but to save you from inverse-pride, where you do not even believe who you are. That does not glorify God either. You need to know who you are.

I am your pastor. I am an apostle. I am a prophet. I am a teacher. I have the whole fivefold ministry. I am also a king and a priest, according to the New Testament definitions, which you will hear today in this video, and if the Lord wants me to, I will go over it again. You all are in training to be whatever aspect of this ministry God will transfer to you. There is no guarantee, but whatever ministry you are a disciple in, you have the potential to rise to every element, or some element, of that ministry, whatever the call on your life is. So know who you are, brethren, and let us be godly people; that God be pleased with us.

What does that mean, that God be pleased with us? It means that we are presenting the image of Him to the world that He desires the world to see. And God is the most blasphemed individual -- God and His Son, Jesus Christ; the most blasphemed, lied-about, misunderstood, maligned people (for lack of a better word) in the world. So what I just gave you is a good testimony that nobody can recognize who I am. And it is not even that they do not recognize it. They are just in denial. They look at me. I have been asking the Lord for years, what do they see when they look at me that they think it is not possible today? Women do everything today. What is it that they see when they look at me that they just cannot believe that I would write an article (forget about bringing forth this doctrine) on my own website? What is it that they look at me and cannot believe it? It is just amazing.

So, you must be going through the same thing. Now, do not overdo it. You have to rebuke your pride. You want to find that middle column and that balance. Today the Lord is working with us to introduce us to a higher level of understanding that you can only enter into if you accept the fact that all of the sins of your soul are not automatically forgiven, because if they were forgiven, then how come you are still sick and suffering financially, and every other problem that you may have or have had in the past? It is just not true.

We are talking about the lingering effects of sin. Everything that is not life, everything that is not perfect, is the lingering effect of sin. We will never find 100 percent relief as long as we are in this body, but we are hoping to find some relief from the lingering effects of sin on ourselves and on our children by understanding that it is possible that we have sinned against people, and even though we have made it right with them, we have not understood that God requires satisfaction also. The satisfaction that God requires is called the sin offering.

The spiritual reality of it is the destruction of the element of your fallen soul that caused you to sin, but involved in destroying this aspect of your soul is understanding how this aspect of your soul caused you to sin. It is the priest that teaches you and gives you the understanding, which is your weapon to sacrifice that aspect of your soul. Therefore, because the priest is involved in assisting in the offering of your sacrifice (under the Old Testament, the priest was entitled to the flesh of the offering, and the flesh of the offering that you are burning in this dispensation is your sin nature), there is a financial enumeration that you bring to the priest to complete the process, if you want to understand this and do it.

And it is clearly delineated in the Scripture what kind of sin can be dealt with concerning the trespass offering, and I put that in your notes today. I pulled out all the Scriptures that describe the situations that call for a trespass offering, to educate you to do whatever you want to do with it.

This is an introduction to Part 1 of The Trespass Offering, the Spiritual Application. It is a montage of my comments, which has been extracted from four different messages as an introduction to the concept of the spiritual application and the trespass offering.

This message stands alone as Part 1 of the series, and it is also factored into Part 2.

montage of my comments from part 1

The Lord has been showing me for a while now, and I have shared with you to some degree, but not a lot because he is teaching me very slowly, how the spiritual aspect of the laws in the Old Testament are still valid for God’s spiritual people. But the danger is getting caught up in a religious spirit and going back under the law, and I do not want to do that for myself, nor for you.

I am going to tell you what is on my heart, brethren, and I did not have any intention of telling you this today. You can do whatever you want with it. I told the second person in this ministry, as I felt right to tell them, that when you sin, as it is laid out in the Book of Leviticus, including being deceitful and not relating properly to your fellow man; and I don't mean an ongoing sin that you are dealing with, but if you actually do something, and it comes to the point that God has me talking to you about it, whether you come to me or I come to you, and you are convicted of your sin, you have to make it right.

This came out in a recent message, Sin as God Sees It. We need to understand that we sin both against another person and against God. We do not just sin against the person. We sin against God.

And when we are convicted of our sin, we have to make it right. You cannot just apologize to God. You have to go to the person, admit that you did something wrong, and if restitution is necessary, you have to make restitution. If you took something or broke something, you need to replace it or to fix it.

The Scripture says, bring a trespass offering to the priest and you will be forgiven. I am really reluctant to give you this because your carnal mind might take it the wrong way. If you find yourself in a situation like that, where it is revealed to you that you did something wrong to another person, even though you did not mean it, and you make it right with the other person, you still need to bring a trespass offering to the priest, which is me. Then God is vindicated. You have to vindicate yourself with the person and vindicate yourself with God by bringing a trespass offering, and then you will be forgiven. It is not a you will be forgiven, la, la, la. Every sin is a wound on your soul. We all have problems in our lives. The Lord wants us to be problem-less.

Consider this: every serious problem in our life is the result of a curse. If God reveals that you have done something wrong, and you truly want to vindicate yourself and make a clean start and get it off your soul, the Scripture says you need to bring a trespass offering to the priest. In the Book of Leviticus, it was an animal, so I have no idea how to tell you how much it is monetarily.

If you are in a condition like that; if you have a perception that there is problem in your life, something that you are reaping and sowing, even though you made it right with the other person, and the curse just seems to be sticking, maybe it is because you have not brought the trespass offering. Pray about it. I am not telling you that you have to do anything. I am here to educate you, and this is what the Lord is teaching me. I had to tell that, the other day, to the second person in the last couple of years, and they both received it. So please just pray about it.

The Lord is showing us areas of the Old Testament that are still valid, which we have rejected, saying that that is the law. If they are still valid in the spirit, and we are not doing what God requires, we are not getting the full benefit of our relationship with the Savior.

This morning the Lord spoke to me in the shower, which I thought it was amusing. How many times have I come out here and told you that the Lord spoke to me in the shower? In my ignorance I have been amused by this, and now the Lord tells me that He speaks to me when I am under free-flowing water. So, does this mean I am I going to get into some kind of religious ritual and start wondering and expecting a word when I shower? Do I have to shower at a certain time? I do not know. Let him teach me, but I am not getting into any religious spirit here.

The Lord told us, a couple of years ago, that He was going to start teaching us how to understand and minister the law of God that is in the Old Testament through a spiritual prism, and to not be in a religious spirit. It started very slowly. We have held a couple of courts of law here, and we have had some interesting experiences through them. Then a long time passed by. I even mentioned in a couple of meetings that I am waiting for the Lord to teach us how to spiritualize the law, and it is going very slowly.

Then, about a year or two ago, a situation arose where someone came to me to confess a pretty serious sin against God. When I sought the Lord, He told me to give them this teaching about a trespass offering. So that was another step, and I think those were really the only two main things that He taught me, if I am not mistaken. If there is another one, I have forgotten. Maybe I need to start writing these things down.

The Lord is talking to us this morning about the law of the mikvah. I was surprised to find out that ultra-Orthodox men go into a mikvah. I thought it was just for women. I heard the rabbi say that he goes in every day as a form of ritual cleansing. But we do not do ritual cleansing in the New Testament. So I have to ask myself, What does it mean that the Lord will speak to me when I am in the shower? I shower every day, so I do not have all the answers right now. The Lord is introducing this to you.

Brethren, it is no accident. There is a powerful judgment coming on the church. When I get to it, I will go over Numbers, Chapter 11 for you. Something terrible is coming; a plague is coming upon the church. I have no desire to lead you into religious bondage, but let us hear what the Spirit is saying to the church.

I have told you two things this morning. The first one should be easy to understand: if you commit a sin against another person, if in your mind, it is simple, that you have deceived somebody or lied to them (I would have to look up the Scriptures for you), then you need to bring a trespass offering.

You need to be convicted of your sin. You need to confess it, repent to the person, restore anything that was stolen and then bring a trespass offering to the priest, and you shall be forgiven. No one is trying to force you to do this, but I believe that what the Lord is doing is giving us weapons and defense against the plague that is coming.

So what does that mean, Pastor Sheila? Are you trying to scare us into giving you money? No, I am not, and if that is your heart, please keep your money. I am trying to tell you that we are all vulnerable because none of us are fulfilled. So when this plague comes upon the church, it may touch us in little ways. I do not know.

I have told you all this, that even if an atom bomb falls, I do not believe I could die before my assignment is fulfilled. This is a better example: I believe that if a famine comes that God will feed me. I believe that absolutely and unequivocally, but I do not know that He will be feeding me the way I eat today. And I eat well today. We might go from steaks to gruel or just vegetables. We may go from eating 1,500 calories a day to eating 1,000 calories a day.

When the environment that we live in ceases to provide for us, the only person that is going to be 100 percent taken care of is the person who is taken care of by Christ Jesus inside of them. When the environment outside of us ceases to provide, we will be cared for to the degree of the maturity of Christ Jesus in the midst of us because the provision of the Holy Spirit is to take from what is outside of us and give it to us.

The provision of the Holy Spirit is to give you a job when you do not have a job, to give you overtime when you need more money, to have people that have money to bless you if you need money, to be able to go to the supermarket and buy food, that the food is in the supermarket so that you can buy it. So everything that the Holy Spirit gives you is from the world of the environment. When the environment dries up, the Holy Spirit has nothing to give you. Do you understand what I am saying?

What the Lord is telling us now are little things that a lot of people might find hard to believe, but that the charismatic church would reject completely because many of them do not even go into the Old Testament. What the Lord is telling us is you do not have to do anything you do not want to do. He is telling us, if you are willing to hear this, these are areas that God’s people are not living in right now because it is not commonly taught. But if you want to be more fulfilled, these are things that if you do them, it will increase the powers of Christ Jesus in the midst of you because He is the high priest. We should be doing everything to build him up.

You can take this or leave it; it is up to you. You can do whatever you want with it. On Thursday I introduced a concept to you of applying the spiritual aspect to the Levitical law of the trespass offering. And I want you to know that the Lord has completely convicted me of it. I did something wrong the other day that wounded another person; that actually got him quite upset. I said to the Lord, I apologized to the person. I apologized completely. And the Lord said, That is not enough. If you want full vindication, you have to bring a trespass offering.

So, I want you to know that I am going to give a trespass offering. I am going to give it to the ministry. If you have a trespass offering, you can give it to me personally. I give it to the ministry. You can start to implement this if you want to. You do not have to; nobody is forcing you. I am not talking about sins that you recognize in your mind. I am talking about something that you do; if you lose it, and you are unkind to somebody, or you do something wrong that affects another person. You can believe this or not. You can apologize to the other person (and some people in this ministry do not even apologize to the other person), and if you want to implement this in your life, you give a trespass offering to the priest. I am starting to live it and practice it. You can do whatever you want to do. It is my job to tell you. If you have any questions about it, please call me.

We see that there are two covenants: one is for the flesh, or the carnal commandment. And the other is for the spiritual commandment, which liberates us from the carnal commandment. So this is holy Jerusalem. Oh, to those who feel secure in holy Jerusalem, those of us who are free from the law because we follow after the Spirit of God.

Of course there are many Christians that say, I am not under the law, so I do not have to obey any of the righteous rules of the Old Testament. And this is a great misunderstanding. We have to obey all of the rules of the Old Testament in their spiritually liberated application. Every law of the Old Testament is valid for us when the Lord reveals to us the spiritual application of it to our lives.

Let me take another minute to talk about the trespass offering because the Lord is expanding it to me. I never realized that the offerings under the Old Covenant are penalties. I guess it is obvious that they are penalties, but it just never struck me the way the Lord is showing it to me now. He is likening it to getting a ticket from the police.

Someone called me the other day and said that they speed a lot, and asked if that calls for a trespass offering if they choose to follow this teaching? And I said, No, that is not my understanding of what God is doing here. I now understand that it is the form of a penalty, which has two purposes. A penalty, like getting a ticket from the police for speeding or for doing something wrong is a hindrance to you. It is a painful event because nobody likes to give up the money, and it is not pleasant being pulled over by a police officer. It is a deterrent to keep you from making the same mistake again.

The ticket from the police officer would be the sowing and reaping judgment. Let me make this clear. What I am teaching about the trespass offering, that is only if you violate another person. So the person that called me asked, what about my speeding? and in that conversation, I wound up receiving a deeper understanding of the benefit of the trespass offering. I now understand that it is a fine, a penalty. And fines and penalties are given to deter us from making the same mistake again.

This was my counsel to him: as far as giving an offering to a priest, I think that is only if you violate another human being. But, if you are concerned about your speeding, why do you not get a glass jar, and every time you speed, put a dollar in the jar. This way it is a deterrent, and you are judging yourself before the policeman judges you. You cannot be giving an offering to the priest every time you do a little something wrong. That is crazy. We would all be bankrupt.

If you want to do it, if you think it is going to help you, get yourself a glass jar, and every time you do not put your seatbelt on or you speed, throw a dollar in the jar. And then when it becomes a sizeable amount, you can give it to the priest. See if it deters you from getting to the point that the policeman is going to stop and give you $150 ticket or $100 ticket for not wearing your seatbelt or for speeding.

So, I saw a really practical application of this trespass offering in that conversation, and I was so glad that that person called me because I see it as a fine for wrongdoing. You can fine yourself; you can judge yourself, or eventually a police officer or another source of authority will stop you.

The Lord gave me another example of that. I am going share this testimony with you. We are publishing a lot of books through CreateSpace, and I had it in my head to do the pagination of the books a certain way, which were unorthodox.

When I first started doing it, I did not realize it was unorthodox, but that was how I had it in my head to do. When our books would go through the evaluation process, initially they were putting them through the way they were, but then we started getting some resistance from the people who are authorized to make sure that all the books that are submitted to them line up with the guidelines of CreateSpace.

We went through about a year with no opposition, but there must have been a change in management. Whoever the new management was wanted everybody to line up with the requirements, but I could not see any harm in doing it my way.

So, what was it we were we doing? What I had in my heart was that the pages would be numbered sequentially: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. And then if we would get to a blank page, if the page before the blank page was 7, I would number the next page with text on it 8. Apparently the standard for printing, which I did not know, is that you do not have to put a number on the blank page, but you do have to count it. So the last page with text would be 7. The blank page would be 8, and the next page with text would be 9. I wanted to make that next page 8 and ignore the blank page, and so that is what we did. You do not have to actually print the number 8 on the page, so what you see is page 7 and then page 9. There is no page 8 because page 8 is the blank page, and that did not make any sense to me at the time.

So, CreateSpace must be under new management because the resistance to what we were doing became very strong about a month ago. We have been publishing books close to two years now. At some point, I think the Lord really did tell me that I was wrong. Sometimes the voice of the Lord is so soft, and I do not pay attention to it, which is sin. It was not the first time that I have done that. The thought came into my mind, that they are really right, and that it can be confusing to people reading the book if the left-handed page is an even number one time and an odd number the next time.

When you do not number the blank page, sometimes you have even numbers on the left side, and sometimes you have even numbers on the right side, and it is confusing to the reader. The thought filtered into my mind, and I think the issue was who is going to correct all of these books? I do not want to correct all of these books.

So I ignored it, and the other day I wound up in a conflict with the high management there, and there is just no way they are going to let these books through with my numbering system, which apparently is not the standard for printing. I did not realize it when we first started, but now it makes sense to me. When I got off the phone with the manager, the Lord told me that I had come under the sowing and reaping judgment. He told me, in a very soft voice, that they were right. As soon as I heard the Lord telling me that they were right and I was wrong, I was required to change it, and because I did not, I came under the authority of the publishing company, who told me I could not do it anymore. It was not pleasant, and it did not make me feel wonderful. I would have felt much better about it if I took the initiative and changed the procedure in the office myself.

That is the principle of the trespass offering. If you violate another person, you have to apologize and bring an offering to the priest.

You can use the example I just described about the glass jar. If you know that there is something that you are trying to overcome, every time you do not overcome it, throw a dollar in a glass jar, and when it builds up to something significant, give it to the priest.  I did not like the idea of giving that trespass offering, but I did it. I had already made one trespass offering that I told you about, and all I can say about that is ouch! I did not like it. And when I had that conflict with another person, it was not just a dollar; I put a nice donation into the ministry.

You can look at it as a penalty, but it is a penalty that will ward off the sowing and reaping judgment. That is the whole principle of the trespass offering, to avoid the sowing and reaping judgment. It is the same principle as the scapegoat. The Levitical law taught that you give the scapegoat to Satan (when I first started studying this, it just amazed me that the Kabbalists would say that you give the scapegoat to Satan because it is his due). It is his due because we are all sinners, and Satan is entitled to our lives. Satan is entitled to consume the energy, or the souls, of our body. So that is why under national Israel they gave animal sacrifices. Instead of God killing the people, He killed animals because Satan has a right to the energy of our souls.

You may say that today we are under the blood of Jesus. Well, brethren, sin produces a discharge of energy. Either Jesus takes it through your confession and repentance, or Satan takes it by making you sick or bringing on some kind of financial or other disaster in your life that is going to cause you distress. The sowing and reaping judgment is alive and well in the church in every area where we still sin. The blood of Jesus is amnesty. We can plead the blood of Jesus when we are trying to overcome, and when we acknowledge and recognize sin. In areas that are not recognized, we are under the sowing and reaping judgment.

That is where car accidents and illness and financial loss and everything that goes wrong in our life comes from. It is not some entity Satan out there that is just mad at us. Satan has no power over us other than that we sin.

If anybody is still concerned about or having any negative thought towards the concept of the trespass offering, which I have introduced to you (and you do not have to do it, this is here to help us to overcome), I am hoping to explain it to you in more depth. Just like the scapegoat, it is a penalty that will ward off the sowing and reaping judgment, if you choose to do it.

What I explained is that you can apologize to the person, but every sin is against God. So, if you have a conflict with a person in which you were wrong, you apologize to the person, you bring the trespass offering to the priest, and that cuts off the sowing and reaping judgment on every side, if you want to do it.

When I first taught that, I did not appreciate it to the degree that I am appreciating it right now, that it is a deterrent, and it is like a penalty that you can give to yourself rather than have the authority do it. I have heard drug addicts praying, I cannot stop drugging. Please stop me! and a police officer comes along and arrests them. There are laws in this spiritual universe. Everything we do that is wrong has a consequence. Either you judge yourself, or an external authority will control you.

If you think bringing a trespass offering will be a penalty that will pinch you, that will help you to not do it in the future, that is fine. If not, and you keep doing it, the sowing and reaping judgment will catch you. The whole problem is, when you get sick, you are not going to realize it was the sowing and reaping judgment because of what you did God-only-knows-when, that has accumulated and caught you.

What has happened, for everyone that is now saying that Pastor Sheila is putting us under the law (you do not have to do anything that you do not want to do), is that the Lord has given us a tool. He has given us the understanding that every violation of another person is a violation against God, and that it is not enough to apologize to the other person. The Lord is giving us this information so that if you want to take advantage of it, you can give a trespass offering to the priest and hopefully ward of the sowing and reaping judgment, which can come from any one of a multitude of ways.

It can come from a judgment as simple as someone making the same mistake with you that you made with them. Or if it goes on long enough, if someone does to you what you did to them, and you do not recognize it as vindication of what you did, then it keeps rolling on and on and on and on and eventually results in death. At the very least, it results in death.

I just wanted the opportunity to explain that to you more, and if there is anybody that is thinking evil of me through this teaching, I really wish that you would talk to me or at least ask the Lord about it. Do not walk around holding onto this thing, thinking that I am trying to put you under the law, because I am not. I have given you a tool by which you might avoid the sowing and reaping judgment, and you can follow it or not. It is up to you.

I do not know how much of it is going to come out in this teaching today, but we really have to talk about the priesthood. That was the main question that the person who called me about the trespass offering was asking me, why I would say that I am a priest? The Lord told me years ago that I am a priest.

The person said to me, There are no priests in the New Covenant. But yes, there are priests in the New Covenant; we are all kings and priests. So, here we go again.

It says in the Scripture that we are all kings and priests. That is nice. Are you a king and priest? You have to appropriate it. The Scripture that says we are all kings and priests means that if you serve God, you have a potential to be made a king or a priest. It does not mean you are automatically a king and a priest.

I have talked to you about kingship. There are two ways you can look at being a king under the New Covenant. If you have subjects, you are a king. So, if you are a pastor, and you have a congregation that acknowledges you, from that point of view, you are a king or a leader over a group of God’s people.

But the true, spiritual meaning of being a king is that the Malkhut (which represents kingdom) of the Lord Jesus Christ resides in you. And the Malkhut of the Lord Jesus Christ is the grafted Christ. So, if the Malkhut of the Lord Jesus Christ is grafted to you, you are a king.

You may not have a congregation right now. You may be a king in training, or if you have a person that you have spiritual authority over, you are a king. The Malkhut of the Lord Jesus Christ, called kingdom, is grafted to you.

Who is the spiritual priest? Twenty or more years ago, someone in this ministry from out of state called me up and shared a dream that they had with me, and I recognized myself in that dream immediately. But the person who called me did not recognize me because the Lord told her in the dream that there was a priest that was sent to her to help her with something. I do not remember the rest of the dream. I said to her, that person is me. And she said, oh, I would have never thought that it was you. But the Lord was telling her that I was a priest all of those years ago.

The question is, what is the office of a priest today? It is interesting how sitting in the rabbi’s class helps me with little tidbits here or there. I spoke to him about the Levitical priesthood once; I was wondering if the priests were in the role of mediator. And his answer was, No, but the function of the priest is to energize the offering that the person brings themselves.

What does that mean? Say the person wants to bring a lamb to offer to God. Well, how do you offer it to God? There is a procedure, a mechanism, a process. The priest says the prayers over it. The priest slaughters it. The priest burns it. The mechanism is that you take the offering and you give it to the priest, who processes your offering and thereby energizes, or implements converting it into a form that is acceptable to God. And the form that is acceptable to God is in its burnt state. The Scripture says in Gen 8:21, And the Lord smelled a sweet savor, which is a type, of course.

What does the spiritual priest do? The function of the priest is to help you to offer your sin nature because the animals that they brought as an offering in the Old Testament were types of their own sin nature. There were teaching priests in the Old Testament. Priests teach you the law. They help you to understand what God requires of you. Then when you bring the offering, you bring it to the priest, who helps you through understanding to burn up your own sin nature, which we will go into when I read my notes.

I am no expert on the sacrifices, and I have just started looking into it, but under the Old Covenant, the sin offering that was brought to the priest they burn to a crisp, but there is always something of the animal left over for the priest. Under certain circumstances, they get the flesh of the animal. Their payment for assisting you with sacrificing what symbolized your own sin nature, was the offering that they brought, the flesh of the meat. That was their payment.

If you want to implement this teaching, and bring an offering to the priest today -- the priest who gives you the understanding, who helps you to offer your own sin nature to the fires of Binah, who teaches you and is willing to pray for you along these lines, you cannot give your sin nature, so you bring a financial offering.

We are going to have a town hall meeting on Sunday. Bring all your questions. If I cannot answer them, I believe that the Lord will answer them in the meeting. They were good questions. I am not afraid of your questions, and I know that the teaching I have given you is of God. If you are ready to embrace it, fine. If you are not, that is fine too. Come with all of your questions. Just be in the right spirit. I think we are going to have a great meeting on Sunday.

End of part 1 - montage of my comments

QUESTION: You said that the trespass offering is only when you do something against another person, so if you do something against yourself, for example: lust, gluttony, masturbation, something like that, is that something that would be under this offering?

PASTOR VITALE: According to the Scripture, it is for a sin against another person or against the holy things of God. I really do not want to get into a religious spirit. I said this to somebody recently. I do not know whether I was on camera when I said it or not. I see the trespass offering in two tiers; one that is clearly established by the Scripture, a sin against another person. The second tier is like what you just described. It is up to you. If you do something that hurts yourself, if you think it will help you, give yourself a penalty before the sowing and reaping judgment gives you a penalty. I say that because we cannot bankrupt ourselves with the money here. So if you sin against another person, I am not going to tell you how much money it should be, but it should be a substantial offering. If you sin against yourself and you are trying to use this principle as a deterrent, get yourself a glass jar. Throw a dollar in the jar every time you do it, and when it becomes a sizable offering, then give it to me, but you cannot be giving out large sums of money because we cannot bankrupt ourselves every day.

ANSWER: Yes.

PASTOR VITALE: So that is the answer to your question.

ANSWER: Yes, OK.

PASTOR VITALE: I find it a very, very good deterrent for my own self-improvement program. Anybody else?

QUESTION: I want to say thank you for the message, it has really been a blessing to me. Believe it or not, half of the questions that I have, you answered on the email, and when you went over the 37-minute lecture I just listened to this morning. I had a couple of things you just answered, but about how much money should we give to the priest? I understand about the money in the jar. So that was one of my questions, how much money you should give to the priest. Does it depend on what you do? What determines the amount?

PASTOR VITALE: According to the Scripture, it is the animals that are described in the Scripture, but it does say in one verse, if you cannot afford a lamb or a goat (I do not know if a goat is correct or not); if you cannot afford a whole lamb, then you can bring two pigeons, so I really cannot give you an amount. It is really a decision of your conscience between you and the Lord because I would not even know where to start. Do you want to know what I did?

You know, I do not even know if I want to tell you the amount that I gave. You have to hear it from the Lord about how much to give. It is all a conscience issue, Tony. I cannot tell anyone how much money to give. I really cannot do that. Look, we are all sons of God here. You get before the Lord, and you try to hear from God as to what He wants you to do. We all want to be benefited from this. We do not want this to be a terrible burden on anybody. OK, Tony? It was a good question though.

COMMENT: Right. And the other comment I had is, when I listened to your message before you started today, I wanted to define Levitical offering. You talked about the trespass, and I wrote down trespass, sin offering, peace offering, meal offering and the burnt offering, and then I saw in your notes where you would be discussing, you have a Scripture about the burnt offering and then something you said about the law and about the police officer. When I was a police officer, people used to go before the judge and say, Your honor, I did not know. And the judge would say, Well, ignorance is no excuse, and still would cite the person.

And then I did a search in the Bible, and I did see one of the Scriptures you have on page 2, Leviticus 5:15, and I read Numbers 15:28 which says, And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him. So I was thinking a lot of people, for what I did not know, there is no excuse. But here the Scripture covered that even though there is no excuse, you still have to present a sin offering, so I thought that was a blessing because it ties into your notes where you said in 1 Peter 2:5 about the spiritual house, so I can agree with the message. I like the thing you said about the dollar in the jar kind of thing because I will think about it when I am driving. A person will get me upset when they are driving slow or they are texting, and you say, aw, man, you know. I think about that, so I can see where that could be helpful.

So those are the questions I had about that. I am asking the LORD if there is a spiritual application for the other four -- the other three because you already touched on the sin offering, the trespass, and I saw in your notes, we have got the burnt offering. And this meal and the peace offering, that their spiritual application will come down in the future. That is all I have.

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, OK. Well, I hope that the other sin offerings come down in the future because I would like to know the answer to that myself. And I am really glad that you -- I might have gotten to it anyway if I was just reading my notes, but I am glad that you mentioned that sinning ignorantly because when Tony mentioned that sinning in ignorance, what came to my mind was, in particular, one person here who I know is really trying their best, but there is an ongoing problem. And although it has not happened in a while, it had gotten to the point where they said to me, I am sorry, and I was saying to them, I do not receive your apology because you just keep doing it over and over again. And I know that I was hurting their feelings, but I did not know how else to deal with it because it comes to a point where it is just true. Your apology means nothing, and now I see that God has given me a tool because it is not my intention to hurt somebody.

It should not be our intention to hurt somebody by rejecting them. The whole idea is to help them to change. And now if that ever happens, although it has not happened in a while, if there is a habitual offender in this congregation and they come to me and say, I am sorry, and what is on my heart is that you have said you are sorry once too often, in the past I had two choices: one, accepting their apology verbally, but my heart does not except their apology (and I believe my heart is Christ Jesus), or two, rejecting them and wounding them on a personal level. But now I have another choice, and the other choice is to say to the party, Look, this is going on for a long time, and you have not taken the victory to the point that your apology is very stale, so you really need to bring a trespass offering.

There has to be a consequence. If we really hope to change and we are fighting something, which means we do not have the power to change, a consequence is appropriate. So, now I can say to a person that has that problem, I do not reject you personally (which is what I was doing), but it is my job to tell you that your apology has grown stale. And since there has to be a consequence, I am telling you as your pastor that you really need to bring a trespass offering if you want this sin to be forgiven, because I can no longer forgive you. Even though you sinned against me because you lied to me again, I can no longer forgive your sin. It is not in my heart to forgive you because you have gone over that line, so your only respite at this point is to bring a trespass offering.

In the past where the person would walk away from me dejected, saying, Oh my God, Pastor Sheila did not accept my apology, now there is a way of escape. If I, in my humanity, cannot forgive you because you have done this so many times, there is a way of escape for you to recover, to not feel bad about yourself; to give you enough strength to go on the next day to fight again. You can say, I wounded Pastor Sheila so badly that right now she cannot forgive me, but the Lord will forgive me. I can put that trespass offering in, and I can feel better about myself so that I can go on and fight another day. That is what the Lord told me while Tony was speaking, so I really thank God for that understanding, in Jesus’ name.

COMMENT: So I just see this as the process of accountability unto perfection.

PASTOR VITALE: OK.

COMMENT: Is that acceptable?

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, it is.

QUESTION: I have a few questions, and I am wondering how to word them so they make sense. The trespass offering, if I am understanding it correctly, is when you violate another person?

PASTOR VITALE: Yes.

QUESTION: OK. So if you say something unkind, is that a violation?

PASTOR VITALE: Yes.

QUESTION: OK. So if you do something and you do not realize you violated them, how will you find out that you violated them so you can do the trespass offering?

PASTOR VITALE: That is a very good question. If you are living a life in God, and especially if you are in a ministry like this, the Lord will tell me to tell you, and then you have to not get mad at me when I tell you. That was a very good question. That is the exact description of my job here. I have been saying for years, I would much prefer not to tell you. The Lord would much prefer it that you should hear it directly, but we do not always hear it from the Lord, and that is what I am here for. If you are in this ministry, you are in right standing; I do not know anybody that is not in right standing in this ministry. We all have sins, but you are all in a godly submission. You are all working with me, so you are all under the blood. The Lord will tell you, He will tell you through a book; He will tell you when you are reading the Bible; He will tell you when you are sleeping. If you still do not hear it, then He comes to me to tell you. I am the last resort, because when I tell you, it hurts much more than when you hear it yourself. That is the answer to your question. He will tell me to tell you.

COMMENT: OK.

PASTOR VITALE: I do not usually fail to hear it. The few times over the years I have failed to hear it, it is always about myself. My problem is that I may not want to tell you, that I may hear the Lord telling it to me, and I let things go, and then He has to come back again. Usually, when I let it go, something not good happens, and then I realize, I had to tell them, and then I go back. I guess I am supposed to tell you all right away, so I am remiss in that area, but eventually, I get to you. So that is the answer to your question.

COMMENT: OK. I also had another question.

PASTOR VITALE: OK.

QUESTION: Let us say if you do something unkind and violate someone, what is the difference between violating another person and sinning against another person? Is there a certain line?

PASTOR VITALE: No. Sin is a violation.

COMMENT: OK. So what if, I guess -- oh, never mind.

PASTOR VITALE: Well, maybe this is what you are looking for. I was reading in one of my Kabbalah reference books yesterday, and I noticed that the Kabbalistic definition for what I would say is a violation, is a trace. In other words, when we actually sin, there is a line, and that is what you were asking about, the line.

COMMENT: Yes.

PASTOR VITALE: The actual decision as to whether or not it was a sin is that you leave a mark. When we violate the other person, the book called it a trace; there is actually a mark, a wound that goes on the other person.

COMMENT: OK.

PASTOR VITALE: So, it is possible to say something wrong, and it goes over their head. It is possible that they get a wound even though they do not realize it, but you have to really check it out. Unless it is clear to you what you did, you have to check. Now, even if they are not wounded, you sinned in your own heart, but it becomes a different category of sin if you did not wound the other person. Then it becomes the second tier that I just spoke about.

COMMENT: OK.

PASTOR VITALE: Do you see what I am saying? If you are not sure, then you have to ask the Lord. If you want, you can ask my opinion. Sometimes, if I am present, I can most likely tell you. If I am not present, and if I hear the story, I might be able to tell you.

COMMENT: OK.

PASTOR VITALE: That is it? Two, only two?

QUESTION: I think I might have one more.

PASTOR VITALE: OK.

QUESTION: What if you do something against another person and, in this culture, people are highly offended these days because they are very sensitive, would that be a violation if they get offended? Because it would be considered their pride that is offended?

PASTOR VITALE: That is a good question. It depends. Are you talking about telling them the truth in the Spirit of the Lord? Because people sometimes get offended when Christ Jesus in you is telling them the truth, so then that is not a sin if they get offended when you are telling them the truth. But that is a really good question. Everything is your motive. The Scripture says that the Lord requires you to be harmless as doves and wise as serpents, and there is a Scripture that is floating around in my mind, but I cannot lay hold of it right now.

We really need to be very sensitive to other people, and unless it is an issue of righteousness, we really need to just let things go. I mean, if you are having a conversation with somebody and you start talking and you see that they are getting upset, change the subject. Back away from it. It is called being a peacemaker, and the only reason that would keep you in it if you see the person is upset would be your own ego.

People that did that used to drive me crazy because I was all into confrontation to a fault, and the Lord took that quality of mine to now use it to confront the brethren when I have to; to use it in a godly manner. But I used to be into confrontation to a fault, so you cannot do that. You have to really be sensitive to other people. I know I am very sensitive to other people. Just the slightest look on their face and I see what is going on with them. Change the subject, walk away and back off. The Lord wants you to be a peacemaker unless it is an issue of righteousness, and then it is not sin.

COMMENT: OK.

PASTOR VITALE: Did I answer your question?

COMMENT: Yes.

PASTOR VITALE: OK, Sandra.

QUESTION: I do not have the exact quote here. I think you said something like, when you give the trespass offering, you shall be forgiven. So number one, can you define forgiven? And number two, to what degree will we be forgiven? Because I know this ministry has taught a deeper understanding of forgiveness, where, I think it is when Christ completely swallows that sin up in you, and you will not have the potential to do it anymore. I think, if I remember correctly, that that is the two understandings of forgiveness.

PASTOR VITALE: Yes. You have to be purged of the potential to do it again. That is the true forgiveness. The ultimate forgiveness is that you are purged of the flaw in your fallen nature that would even do such a thing. So the Scripture says, you do this, and your sin will be forgiven. There is forgiveness by faith and then forgiveness in reality, so that is a very good question. I do not honestly know that I could answer. Let me see what I would say to you.

There is no carnal thing that you could do that will result in this mark being removed, because you put a mark on the other person, and there is a mark that goes on your own soul also. There is no carnal thing that you can do, like giving money to somebody, that will remove that mark from your soul, but then what happens, as I am hearing it from the Lord, is it becomes an issue of the heavenly court, as we read about, I think it is in Zechariah, where we see Joshua all dressed in tatters, and he is on trial. Michael is defending him, and Satan wants to execute judgment on him, which means to take his energy, which could mean some kind of loss. And Michael is advocating for him and saying, No, you cannot condemn this man.

                                                                    

So what happens is, when we follow this with the spiritual understanding and with a repentant heart, and are following this process in an attempt to purge ourselves or our children from lingering sin, and the carnal commandment says your sin shall be forgiven you, we have to believe that it will be forgiven. But I cannot tell you that the lingering sin will be erased immediately. I cannot tell you that, but we now have legal ground to go before the Lord and say, Lord, I did everything I know how to do.

Brethren, the sin offering that I put into the ministry recently was concerning my daughter, Maria. There have been problems with her since she was a little girl, and she has been so difficult that I, frequently, did not handle the situation properly. A lot of the times, I just simply did not know what to do, and then my own ego got caught up in it. My pride got caught up in it, so I definitely sinned in the circumstances with my daughter being in a very bad situation, and I was incapable of being blameless while I was being attacked because she attacks me. And my daughter has not spoken to me, it is going on three years now. I missed my older granddaughter’s Sweet 16 party, and I have already told the Lord multiple times that, if I had it to do over, I would not have done the thing that I did, which was in response to what she did to me. I would not have done it if I had it to do over again, but I do not know what else to do.

I have been telling the Lord for over a year, I just do not know what more to do. I write to her. I have not called her because that does not work out too well, but I text her. I pray. I have done everything that I know how to do. Her refusing to talk to me is her final weapon to control me because she is in a power play with me, and I have, from time to time, slipped into that power play. I have not been innocent in face of the provocation. I know that, but I am human. It does not matter. I have not been innocent when confronted with the provocation, and then she provoked me in this power play, and I did something back. Consciously, she probably did not understand it this way, but she said, I simply cannot control my mother. Everything I have done to try to control her has failed, so I am not going to talk to her anymore. So she now holds all the cards. She is the one in control, and that is what she wants, to be in control, so I should have not responded to the provocation.

I have been telling the Lord, I know. I am sorry. I would not do it again. If I had it to do over, I would not do it again. I have done everything. I do not know what to do to bring reconciliation here. And now when I heard this teaching, I put a trespass offering into the ministry, saying that I know that I was anything but perfect in my ministry in this difficult situation, and I have been powerless to get her to at least talk to me and let me talk to my grandchildren. I cannot talk to my grandchildren, either.

So I have great hope in this process that may result in a breakthrough, and for all we know, this teaching that is coming down is the direct result of me crying out to God, saying, What more can I do? I just do not know what to do. People have suggested I just go down there. You do not know my daughter. If I just go down there and knock on the door, she will call the police. She will make a scene. I cannot do that, so I am absolutely powerless unless God moves on her, and He has not moved on her in close to three years. So maybe this is the answer to my problem. I put that trespass offering into the ministry with great hope. We will see what happens.

To get back to Sandra’s question, in accordance with this teaching, my sins should be forgiven unto me. I can now go before the Lord in a legal situation, as demonstrated by Joshua in the Book of Zachariah and say -- you see, it is Satan in my daughter's mind that is executing the sowing and reaping judgement on me. It is Satan and the unconscious mind of the people that are Satan’s soldiers (Satan in all of our minds is Satan’s army, Satan’s soldiers) and we carry out the sowing and reaping judgment upon each other. So it is Satan in my daughter’s mind, in her unconscious mind, who is punishing me for sinning when I was provoked and trying to defend myself against her attempts to control me.

Can you just picture this, that I am on trial? I am an apostle of God, and I sinned. I got caught up in a power play with someone who was being very provocative, but it does not matter whether they are being very provocative or a little provocative. The bottom line is that I got caught up in it and I am being severely punished for it. It has caused me a lot of pain.

Now I can go before the Lord and say, Now that I have done everything, I realize that it was a sin against God as well as a sin against my daughter; I guess it was a sin against my daughter. Was it a sin against my daughter? Oh, gee. I do not know that it was a sin against my daughter. I do not know that I sinned against her, but I sinned against God by getting caught up in the power play. I do not know that I did anything that would be called a sin against my daughter, but I sinned against God because my pride got in it, and I said, You cannot do that to me. What she was doing was wrong and I said, You cannot do that to me, but I know I cannot do that, so my sin was against God. That is very interesting.

I am so glad I am sharing this testimony with you because I have been confessing to the Lord for a while now that I sinned, but I did not have it straight in my head that the sin was against God. I do not think that I ever saw it that way. That may be what is holding back this reconciliation; that I sinned against God. So I repented of sinning against God, and I have given this trespass offering. Now there is a legal situation. I hope you all know that God is a legalist. There are lawyers, and God has courts. He has spiritual courts, and I can go to trial now and say, Satan in my daughter’s mind no longer has legal ground to punish me like this because I sinned against God.

The Lord told me, over a year ago, I do not remember exactly how He put it to me, but He said that I had to deal with it spiritually, so I spent some weeks or months rebuking Leviathan and rebuking Jezebel and rebuking every sin I could find. Nothing happened. And then I said, Well, maybe I was not supposed to be doing that. The Lord gave me to understand that even though what my daughter is doing is really wrong, she feels very rejected and unloved by me, and there are grounds for that.

Actually, what came to me the other day was the time she was very ill and my two grandchildren were very young, and she thought she was going to die. She wanted me to say I would take the children, and I did not know what to do because I did not know how I would take the children. I was in poverty in those days. I lived in this one room in this ministry. I had no place for them to sleep. I had no money. It was only the mercy of the people in this ministry that I went to her wedding. I could not even afford to go to the wedding. I did not know how I could say I would take the children without lying. I did not know, and I broke her heart. There are a lot of things that happened. It is a mess. My relationship with my daughter is a complete mess.

I do not want to put her down in any way. She just thinks about herself. She will say things to me like, I have a chronic illness, you know. Well, Maria, do you know that your mother has a chronic illness, too? Do you remember me being half dead on the couch and you would not even make me a cup of tea? She has no perception of my needs at all. She just thinks about herself; that is all she can see. She cannot see anything that she did or anything that happened.

So here is this legal situation, and Satan in her mind is saying, I have a right to punish my mother. She did this, and she did that, and she did that. And God has not been defending me because there was an unconfessed sin towards God in my prideful response to all of her accusations and everything else that she threw at me. I did not understand that, and it is coming out now. Now that I understand it, and I repented, and I have given a trespass offering, perhaps Jesus will stand up and speak to Satan in her mind (I am quoting a Scripture in case you do not know it) saying, This is a brand pulled out of the fire, and you can no longer condemn her, and if that, which may be being prophesied right now, is about to happen, Satan in my daughter’s mind will lose his power to sustain her unforgiveness for me.

This is the most incredible testimony! Did you hear what I just said? Did you hear this incredible testimony that just came to pass? It would not even surprise me if this whole teaching on the trespass offering was because of my cries to the Lord over my situation. My grandchildren are growing up. I am missing them growing up, and my second granddaughter is about to have a Sweet 16 party in September, and my older granddaughter is going to be graduating high school. I am missing their whole life! So the Lord could not help me. He could not speak to her. He would not use His influence on Maria to forgive me because I was in sin against Him in this situation, and I was ignorant of it, so He raised up this whole teaching probably just for me, and you are all going to get the benefit of it. I am very excited to see what is about to happen. The Lord has announced this and bared me before you all with my family problems, and I fully expect to see the unforgiveness in her mind (which is merely a personification of Satan in her mind) dissolve. I expect to hear from her very soon.

COMMENT: Amen. Wow.

PASTOR VITALE: Very, very exciting testimony, brethren! Very exciting testimony! So the answer to Sandra’s question is that if we complete our repentance by understanding that we sinned against God as well as sinning against the other person, we now have a legal ground to go before the Lord and say, Help me!

The Lord has a higher authority than Satan in somebody’s mind, so why has He not helped me? I thought, Well, it is not the time, and she has to come to repentance. I have had all these excuses in my mind as to why this is going on so long, and now I find out that the answer is none of those things. God could have done it at any time, but I did not understand. It took me all this time to understand that my daughter is bringing a legitimate judgment upon me for sinning against God.

He does that with me. This will not be the first time He does something like that with me. If He thinks I should know the answer, He does not tell me. And the consequences of my sin can go on for a lot longer than I would like them to, until finally He gives up on me and He says, Well, she is just not going to get it, so I will give her a hand, although He did not tell me outright. He just gave me the mechanism by which to dig it out, and now He has decided to have mercy on me in front of you all to tell me what has really happened here. I did not get it, you see. I did not get it.

Brethren, I am a good example for you today, and my own personal testimony validates the whole principle of the teaching to me. Again, as far as I know, there is no obligation to implement it in your life, but look at what it has done for me. In the Book of Job, it says that Job gave offerings regularly on behalf of his children because of their sins, and I think because of himself also, in case he sinned ignorantly. So, it may not be a bad idea to make an offering every now and then just in case.

That is one of the principles in the Levitical law, and it may not be amongst the Scriptures that I put in today's messages, but I know that I have read it, that the people would bring offerings just in case they sinned ignorantly, and they did not know it. So, I am probably going to start doing that myself at least once a year, if not sooner.

Maybe every once in a while I should say, Lord, maybe I have sinned ignorantly in the last six months. I know that I pray every day for truth, and I ask Him to correct every error in my mind, every mistake that I have made, but that is not the same thing as confessing guilt, of saying, not even maybe, but most likely I am guilty of some sins that I am not aware of, and I just want to put this offering in to cover myself, saying, if it is true, Lord, please show it to me.

I do that. I pray regularly, saying, Lord, if I have done anything wrong, please show it to me that I might repent, but I did not accompany it with an offering. I do pray prayers like that, Show me my sins. Show me every mistake that I am making in my doctrine towards other people. I pray like that several times a week, if not every day, but I did not accompany it with an offering. So, brethren, take what you want from this teaching. I intend to implement it in my life. I am very excited.

Your sins shall be forgiven means that you now have the legal ground to pursue God, and say, If you are not going to act on my behalf to change this lingering consequence of sin, I now have a right to ask, why not? God is a legalist; He is not mad at you for doing something like that. Sandra, did I answer your question?

COMMENT: Yes, you answered my question. I do have another one, too.

PASTOR VITALE: OK, just one second because I am so excited about seeing that vision of that courtroom situation with Zechariah and Joshua, and Jesus saying, This is a brand pulled out of the fire. I am so excited I almost cannot contain myself! I just had to say that again. OK, Sandra, what is your next question?

QUESTION: No, that is awesome. I am so blessed by the answer.

I would like to know what the process is as far as the unknown sin, because we talked about that if we do have a sin that we know of, where we have offended somebody or violated them, that we would like to pay this trespass offering, but we need to come to you and tell you what happened and go through the process of it so that we can mutually talk, and it is not just like some payoff.

PASTOR VITALE: Right.

QUESTION: So then, as far as the offering for the unknown sin that we might give every two months, or whatever it might be, does that need to come with a session of talking about things?

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, think it does. People from time to time give me love offerings, and I thank you for the love offering, but if you want that love offering to be applied to a trespass offering, then I cannot accept it unless you give me some kind of explanation, so you really need to contact me and tell me that it is for potentially unknown sins, though I do not even want to say potentially. I think we all sin all the time, even if it is with our mind, and that you need to tell me that you would like to give me an offering for unknown sins and will I accept it. I would like to stay with that formality as a defense against any of us getting into the idea of buying off forgiveness. That is very dangerous. I really want to avoid that at all costs, and at least give me the opportunity to try the spirit on you because if when you do that, there is any wrong motive, the Lord will reveal it to me. If we are following this procedure and you are coming to me and telling me that, and I know in my heart I do not want it if it is for a wrong motive, if it is a wrong motive, the Lord will tell me, so let us keep to that process.

COMMENT: Amen. Amazing!

PASTOR VITALE: Yeah. Well, that turned out really good. OK. Did you have another question, or was that the other question? I am all flying now. I do not even know what I am doing here.

COMMENT: I know, and I have not heard that verse before that you had said about taking the brand out of the fire. I do not think I have ever heard that verse.

PASTOR VITALE: It is in Zechariah, and it says Joshua was there in very tattered, or poor clothing, and Satan was prosecuting, because Satan is the prosecutor. And I think it says Michael was there saying, No! You cannot execute your judgment on Joshua. This is a brand pulled out of the fire.

COMMENT: Wow.

PASTOR VITALE: Yes. Here, I have my phone. Let me see if I can get that Scripture for you.

It is Zechariah 3:2. Let us do Zechariah 3:

Zechariah 3:1, And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is this not a brand plucked out of the fire? So, it is Jehovah who said it.

           

Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.

And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. So that is your forgiveness, Take away the filthy garments from him.

And unto him he said, unto Joshua, who had sinned, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with a change of raiment.

And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the Lord stood by. That is Christ Jesus in the midst.

And the angel of the Lord protested unto Joshua, saying, Thus saith the Lord of hosts, that is Jehovah, If you will walk in my ways, and if you will keep my charge, then you shall also judge my house, and shall also keep my courts, that is what we are doing here today, and I will give you places to walk amongst those that stand by.

Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee, that is all of us, for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH. That is Christ Jesus in the midst of us.

For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes. Of course, this is speaking about Jesus. These are the seven Spirits of God. Behold, I will engrave the graving there, now, these are the seven Spirits of God, we are told in Isaiah, but it is also, we know, the seven Sefirot of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. And that land is you and me. This is our land. I will engrave your seven Sefirot. What are the seven Sefirot? Christ is one, plus the six Sefirot that Christ gives birth to in the form of the man child. That is the seven Sefirot.

For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua, Christ, the foundation stone in you and in me, upon one stone shall be seven eyes. Seven Sefirot. The word eyes in the Scripture, I have told you this many times, does not mean eyes. The Hebrew word translated eyes means that which the eye sees.

Each Sefirot is a spiritual world. Brethren, I hope you all know that we are in another world. I was talking with Brooke about this, this morning. We are different than other people. We are in another world. Let us say you ascend to the second Sefirot of the Son, you now have three degrees of power in you. That means there are at least three different levels upon which you can relate to people out of the Spirit of God.

When you attain to the seventh Sefirot, there are seven different environments you could be in. This environment is different than what my next-door neighbor is in. Going to a Pentecostal church, to a conference that we went to, that is another environment that we can be in. Offhand, I do not know what the seven are, to tell you the truth, but that is my example. This meeting here; the Pentecostal charismatic meeting that we were at, at the conference; and then the meeting we go to Connecticut is different. I do not know exactly what the definitions are, and I do not know of seven different layers, but I guess we will get to know them eventually, or I know them now, but I am not realizing it.

So behold, I will engrave the engraving thereof. That means once we get the seven Sefirot, they have to be engraved with the nature of God. We can build up to those seven Sefirot, and they can be taken over by the other side, and the beast can be revealed through those seven Sefirot. So, with the Doctrine of Christ, we are building up into the seven Sefirot, and the reason we are going through this with our sin nature is to make sure that these seven Sefirot have the nature of God engraved upon them. If the Doctrine of Christ produces seven Sefirot in us and we do not deal with our sin nature, those seven Sefirot can be engraved with the nature of the beast. We can flip like this. You must deal with your sins, or you are going to be a manifestation of the beast.

For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua. That is Christ. Upon one stone shall be seven eyes. That one stone is going to grow into seven. Behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, says Jehovah, the God of battle. And why is He all of a sudden Jehovah, the God of battle? Because there is no way that He is engraving the nature of God on your seven Sefirot without a war against your sin nature. And I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. One spiritual day, and that is a promise.

In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall you call every man his neighbor under the vine and under the fig tree. Who is your neighbor? I do not recall the exact Scripture in the New Testament that defines your neighbor, but it is something like, he who does the will of My Father.

You shall call every man his neighbor under the vine. Jesus says I am the vine, and you are the branches, so everyone who is attached to Jesus and under the fig tree. The tree is that which is growing up in you; that is the Tree of Life. I will call every one of you my neighbor, which means, we are a family coming into existence. We are a new blood. We are a new nation coming into existence, not based upon human blood but based upon the blood of Jesus Christ. So this is a prophecy of that one nation that is prophesied, that one blood coming into existence, that is spoken about in the Book of Acts. This is a prophecy of it right here. Very exciting. Very exciting, brethren. Where do we go?

COMMENT: Wow, thank you for that.

PASTOR VITALE: Where do we go from here? Any other questions? I do not even know. The Spirit is so high on me in this area. I will see if I can switch. Anyone else with questions, anyone on computer, anybody there?

QUESTION: I have a question.

PASTOR VITALE: OK, Jesse.

QUESTION: The question that I have is, what is the timeline? You talked about the wounded soul - if you sin against someone else. I mean, does this go back? Does this start now? Does it go back six months, if I wounded someone six months ago, a year ago, or a week ago, or does it start now and from here on out?

PASTOR VITALE: No.

QUESTION: If I go back and correct anything that I have done, wrongdoing, against anybody else who might have a wounded soul as well as anything within me. I guess, how does that work?

PASTOR VITALE: It goes all the way back. If you know specifically that you sinned against somebody, you might want to make it right by making an offering, but I am not really sure how to answer you. You are asking how far back does it go. If you are aware of a sin that you committed, you should make it right. I do not know why I am stumbling with this, Jesse. I think it is very simple. I do not know why I am stumbling. If you know that you sinned against somebody, sometimes it is not appropriate to apologize to them if it was a long time ago. You do not want to stir up dead things, that maybe you just would want to get it right with God. But if you know that you sinned against somebody, it does not matter whether it was 50 years ago (which is probably before you were born), or now. If you are aware of it, you need to make it right.

I have someone in mind right now that I know I sinned against many years ago. Actually, I called her up after I had not seen her in years and apologized to her. She said, OK, but I do not think she really -- I really hurt her, and she did not deserve it. So I am glad you asked that question. I think I will have to give an offering to the Lord for that because she comes to my mind from time to time. She really did not deserve what I did, and my motive for hurting her was rejection. Certain circumstances rose up, and I felt rejected, and I did not deal with it well. It was before I came to the Lord.

So, I guess, the bottom line, Jesse, is the Lord will bring people to your mind that you have hurt. I am going to seek God on this, and after I think that I have dealt with everyone that I might have hurt in the past, then I will probably give an offering for those that I hurt that I do not know about. And let's get my life straightened out. Maybe it will affect my health also, you know. Let's just get my life straightened out. That is how I am feeling now. So I hope I answered your question. You have to ask the Lord, and He will bring to your mind anyone that you might have forgotten. So I think I answered your question. Did I answer your question?

COMMENT: Yes, you did.

PASTOR VITALE: Well, I am getting blessed by every question that is asked. I am getting ministered to. She comes to my mind from time to time. She did not deserve what I did to her. It was just a big mess, and I was ignorant, and I did the wrong thing. I handled it wrong, so I think I will give a trespass offering on her behalf. Yes, Susan?

QUESTION: Is everything a trespass offering, everything? That is what it sounded like to me, that you have a sin, you are confessing it, and then you have to give a trespass offering?

PASTOR VITALE: No. It is a violation of another person. As you spoke to me, I realized what you asked me earlier, whether you would give a trespass offering for fornication or something like that, that it becomes not a trespass offering but a sin offering. And I do not have the spiritual application of that yet, but that would come under another category of sin. I have not heard anything from the Lord on that yet.

I think it would be a very fine line, if somebody did something, stole something, whatever, it would be very similar to the trespass offering. It is always, bring an offering to the priest who will help you to understand what you did was wrong. So let us say you stole something. You do not need me to tell you that it was wrong, but if you came to me, I might ask you why you think you did it. I might try to help you understand yourself. It is like a broad upside-down triangle. You have a broad base on the top, and you have all of these sins here, and they are all the same thing. You have to confess that it is wrong. You come to the priest who will help you to understand your motives -- help you to understand the law and help you to understand your motives for doing it -- and then helps you through confession and repentance to burn the sin nature in yourself that did that sin. So it all comes down to the same thing. Do you understand what I am saying? It is like a broad base of different kinds of sin, but the solution seems to be the same.

In the Old Testament, for one particular kind of sin, you bring a lamb, and for another kind of sin, you bring a bullock, and I do not understand. I would have to look into it. I am not prepared for any of this, brethren, but this is, sort of, touching on what Tony was asking. I think the Lord may be trying to answer him, except that I do not have enough of a knowledge of the sacrifices required by the law to comment on it.

We had something like that in a recent Alternate Translation about a lambkin, so I am going to say, to bring a lamb as an offering, Christ Jesus is the lamb, so it would have something to do with Christ Jesus. And if you bring a bullock for an offering, it has something to do with your sin nature, so it is the two natures there, but more than that. I have not studied it at all, so I cannot say anything more than that, but that is what it is looking like. Think of this as an upside-down triangle, and the base of the triangle is the different kinds of sins with the different kinds of offerings, but they all come to the priest for help with understanding and prayer and any kind of ministry that will help you to purge the sin that was in your soul. So that is what it is looking like. Did I answer your question?

COMMENT: Yes.

PASTOR VITALE: OK, Mary.

QUESTION: You mentioned dead issues a moment ago. Now does this apply to people who are already dead? And say, for instance, for children who said something in the growing-up years?

PASTOR VITALE: Well, that is why Job made offerings for his children, but as far as saying little things, as far as people who are dead, you still sinned against God. If the person is dead and you know in your heart that you sinned against them, this is the whole purpose of this teaching, that there is an open sin against God because we did not realize that we had to repent and bring an offering to God.

QUESTION: And those things apply even before you were born again?

PASTOR VITALE: Oh, yes. Listen, if the mark is on your soul, whether it was there before you were born again or after you were born again; if you have got that wound in your soul --

COMMENT: So, everybody has that then.

PASTOR VITALE: Everybody has it, but they do not have the privilege. I think everybody is in a right spirit here. I do not perceive any opposition at all. It is a privilege to hear this teaching, and to have a priest to go to. You all need to understand this, brethren. I have the authority to take your offering. The average pastor in the church does not have that authority to take it. He can take it if he wants to. Here is the issue: When Elijah offered or made his offering and he was having this contest with the Baal worshippers, he put up the bullock. Did the fire come down and consume the offering? So you can have anybody that can tell you that they can do this for you. The question is, is the fire of God going to come down and do it in the Spirit for you?

So it is a privilege, and the Lord has been trying to tell you all this for years now, what a privilege it is to be in a ministry like this that is run by someone who has the anointing that He has placed upon me because it is not at all typical. There are Christians out there that even if they would hear this teaching, they would be on their face asking, Lord, who do I go to? Who do I go to take my trespass offering? Should I bring it to my pastor? Does my pastor have that anointing that will bring down the fire of God that will purge me of the sin? And the answer is probably, no.

So this is a privilege. This teaching is a privilege, which is educating us even more, which is what the Lord has been trying to do for two or three years now. It started in Texas on New Year’s Eve a couple of years ago, as to what you all have here, and He wants you to be adequately appreciative. What is adequate? You have to ask Him. If He is still teaching us, it means maybe everybody here is not adequately appreciative of what He has done by giving me to you. And He is trying to educate you all because if you are not adequately appreciative and you are not acting on your appreciation, you are not getting the full benefit of what you should have from being in a ministry like this. So we all need to be educated because we are all ignorant, even me. I am anointed to a certain point, and then when I reach a point where I am ignorant, I am as ignorant as you are, OK. Did I answer your question?

QUESTION: So then we do not have to know the things that we have done, but say there are 10, 20, whatever the little things are. Do you have to make a trespass offering for every one of them, or is there a cover?

PASTOR VITALE: Well, we are not talking about little things. We are talking about violating another person. We are not talking about -- I hate to say little sins, but we sin in our thoughts all the time.

COMMENT: Well, I am talking completely about violating any kind of another human being, our interaction with any human being.

PASTOR VITALE: Well, this is it. If you have a memory of who you wounded, you need to give a trespass offering. If you have done it for everyone that you know of, then you give a trespass offering for all of the sins that you committed in ignorance.

COMMENT: There is one thing that has always disturbed me. You know, my father is an alcoholic and all that, and I was very afraid for him to even give me away at my wedding, but I did go along with that out of respect. But I remember he started to say something sweet to me, and he took the veil off of my head, and I said something that I deeply regret. I said, just get it over with. I deeply, deeply, deeply regret it, and my father -- he did not take one single drink that night, not a single drink that night. And, you know, that was the greatest --

PASTOR VITALE: You meant, get it over with, because you were afraid he was going to get drunk and ruin the whole wedding?

COMMENT: Yeah.

PASTOR VITALE: What a terrible way to get married, Mary.

COMMENT: Yes. It was just that one instant, but he was so good. I have very few regrets in my life, but that is one regret that bothers me. So he is gone, of course, so what do you say?

PASTOR VITALE: Well, that would fit this situation, if you wanted to give a trespass offering for it. That would fit.

COMMENT: OK. It comes to mind. There must be a reason for it, right?

PASTOR VITALE: Right. The Lord is going to help us as He is the one in the midst of this whole thing.

COMMENT: Any little -- get it out, Lord, any blemish, any thought, yeah.

PASTOR VITALE: Absolutely. Brooke, did you have another question?

COMMENT: I did have a question, but Margaret had a question that she asked before and Tony also said something.

Tony said, this is the Scripture, Job 1:4-5 that Pastor talked about, Job giving an offering for his children, that his sons may have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.

And Margaret asked, can one trespass offering cover a number of trespasses so long as you are able to identify them all?

PASTOR VITALE: Well, I would not go that way. If you have a limited amount of money, then you should divide it. I do not know how to tell you how much. It is really between you and God, so if you have only so much money, if you have 5 cents that you are aware of, you divide it into 5. I think it is best if you would do that because these collective offerings, it does not sit right with me, but if anybody here has already given a sizeable trespass offering, just make sure that it is God, because if it is not God, you are only cheating yourself. If you gave a sizable offering and you had not heard the whole teaching yet and you would like to have it apply to more than one sin, I cannot tell you what to do. As far as I am concerned; well, call me up and talk to me. I do not want to say OK over the internet.

I am sure that when you talk to me, it is my job to try the spirit on your heart and to give you my opinion of the spirit in which you are doing it, and if it is a godly spirit in which you are doing it, I will be willing to work with you, but for the future -- I know this is a new thing -- I suggest that you pray about it and you pace yourself as to how much money you will be able to give for a trespass offering, and, I guess, you need to ask the Lord how much for each sin. That does not necessarily mean that it is the same amount each time, but I do know this, that it is not the intention of the Lord to bankrupt us. I know that this whole teaching is to help us and to liberate us. And we are all sons of God here, so every one of us that prays with a pure heart should be able to hear from the Lord how much money that should be, and you should give a separate amount for each sin. Just go before the Lord with an honest heart saying, Lord, I am open to anything you tell me, but you promised that you would not give me more than I could bear. And how will it glorify You if this is going to really hurt me financially?

It is an honor system, just like tithing here is an honor system. You are all supposed to be tithing on your gross income, that means your income before taxes, and I never check up on you. It is an honor system, so this will be an honor system also. You all hear from God. Now there is a possibility that, if you cannot hear from God, if He tells me that it is not enough, I will tell you, but I hope that I never have to tell you that it is not enough. I do not like that. This money is a dirty business. I do not like it. And for years, some of those of you who have been here for a long time, you know that I did not even want to take any money for -- now I take a salary. What do I take? I do not think I even take $10,000 a year. I take, like, $7,000 a year. I hate it, you know. It is just a dirty business, but I need money to live on, and the ministry needs money to pay our bills here, so I have to take your money. But I do not like it, and I really do not want to be telling you how much. Unless the Lord tells me to tell you, I really do not want to do it, OK? Margaret, did I answer your question? OK, Brooke. I will take your question while we wait for Margaret.

QUESTION: In regard to Job making the offering for his children, I guess, how does that work in the priest’s position because you said earlier that you would have to accept the offering and discuss it with the person so they knew what they did wrong? But his children were not offering up their sins. They did not know what they did wrong.

PASTOR VITALE: That would be for ignorance, sins done in ignorance, but that is a very good question because apparently it did not work. Maybe you have not read the Book of Job. His children were all killed. He lost his land. He lost all of his possessions. He lost everything, so apparently that did not work for him to offer up an offering for somebody that is not repentant. Offerings do not work if you are not repentant, so I hope I answered your question. OK, Tony, what is your next question?

QUESTION: Actually, I was thinking the same thing Brooke said about Job giving an offering for the children. A lot of us have children that are not a part of your ministry, this ministry, but we have children that might be living in sins, or we have past knowledge that they committed sins. Does this apply, or would the conditions you just mentioned pertain to their also being repentant?

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, I think they have to be repentant. I am not 100 percent sure about that, but that is my perception right now, and we know that it did not work for Job, so your children have to be repentant.

COMMENT: OK, thanks.

PASTOR VITALE: I think the Scripture really is clear that no one can pay the price for another person. The King James puts it like this, that no longer shall it be that the father bites the grape and the children’s teeth are set on edge. It is put in a parable form like that, that you cannot pay for someone else. You cannot be charged with someone else’s sin, and you cannot pay for someone else’s sin. I did not understand that Scripture until right now because the children do pay the price for their children’s sin. I see it all the time that children are paying the price for their parents’ sins, so how does that Scripture apply? And I just realized now that the Scripture applies only in Christ Jesus. We do pay the price for our ancestors’ sins, but in Christ Jesus, once we get the blood on our doorpost, which is Christ Jesus in the midst of us, that changes; everything changes. When we repent, the blood on the doorpost means the angel of death will pass over us.

Brethren, I started to die at such a young age, it had to be ancestral curses. I was only 11 years old when I first started to die and became so terribly ill, so I had to become subject to the sins of -- and I am not saying my immediate parents. Maybe it was my grandparents. Wherever it came from, it was a family line issue. We were three siblings. My two sisters and I became deathly ill. I was 11 years old and my two sisters were in their early 20s. So it definitely was a heavy curse that came on the family from beyond the children.

One of my sisters died at 47, very young, and my other sister died in her early 70s, but she suffered. She became ill as a young mother, 22 or 23 years old, and she suffered surgeries and pain and torments. She suffered for many, many years of her life, so I am the only one that is really surviving the curse, and there is a remnant of that curse that is lingering in my life.

Every time I get knocked down and get physically hurt, there is a weakness in my body, which is the lingering effects of that curse. And, of course, I am just as healthy as I was since the Lord laid hold of me. You all heard my testimony, that I am in God for 35 or more years, and when I first came to the Lord, He told me He was going to heal me, and I continued to sink. It really was not until the Lord started me on Kabbalah that I started to come back up, so I hung on all of those years waiting for the fulfillment of the promise, and I am still being healed through this high, esoteric teaching. I really should say it another way: I really began to be healed when Christ Jesus began to be developed in me because He, the blood on the doorpost of my soul that is inside of this body, is what is healing me.

I have not been healed by the Holy Spirit, although I did get temporary healings. I was healed from internal bleeding by the Holy Spirit, but by and large, the curse of premature death was not broken on me through the Holy Spirit. It was broken on me by the blood being painted on the doorpost of this body, which is Christ Jesus, and I have been getting better ever since. But I still have the lingering effect of those sins; whatever sin brought this terrible judgment on my family, that three siblings should all die horrible deaths, except I was safe from that horrible death. I forgot what the question was. What was the question? Who asked the question?

COMMENT: Tony, about the children.

PASTOR VITALE: Oh, about the children, yes. I was talking about the Scripture that says, And the father will bite the grape, and the children’s teeth will be set on edge.

            Jer 31:29-30

²⁹In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.

³⁰But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

In another place in the Scripture, Exodus 34:7, it says, The sins of the Father shall be visited upon the children unto the third and fourth generation, and then the Scripture says, that is not going to happen anymore, that the father bites the grapes and the children’s teeth are set on edge.

            Ex 34:7

⁷Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. 

It is not going to happen anymore that the children are going to pay the price for the sins of their fathers. And I look around me, and I see it happening. I see it happening to me. I see the family line curse on my daughter. I see it all over the place. So what does that mean? It means that that Scripture is made real, that it is no longer going to happen that the sins of the fathers will go for the third and fourth generation. That is not going to happen anymore for the people who become a house for Christ Jesus.

When Christ Jesus is grafted to you and growing in you and you are His house and His wife, you now become His responsibility, and all of the debts of the family line from your parents are no longer applicable because now you have been taken into the new household of the body of Christ, and you are subject to the blessings of that household. There is a real truth to that, brethren.

Both of my sisters are dead. The one sister that I have in mind, her husband (my brother-in-law) had a brother, so I am thinking about the two families: the man that my sister married and the woman that my brother-in-law’s brother married, so there were two families in my sister’s in-laws, and I saw the radical difference.

I saw the two brothers, which family had their own family problems. The man that married my sister, I saw the way the children turned out, and the woman who married my brother-in-law’s brother, that family turned out much better than the family that my sister was a part of; my sister being sick like that and the problems with the children there were much greater than my brother-in-law’s brother’s family who prospered, much more so prospered.

The truth of the matter is that it was not my brother-in-law, but his brother, whose family prospered more, and was much more troubled than my brother-in-law. My brother-in-law’s brother was much more troubled than my brother-in-law. My brother-in-law was solid. He was in the Navy during World War II. He came out of the Navy, got a college degree, became a big shot. He was the top man in the eastern district of New York for the IRS; the top IRS agent. They made a movie about him, and the children have problems.

But his brother came out of the service (I do not know if he was in the Navy or not) and was a wreck. He could not find a job. In those days, they would say he was a bum. He could not get his feet on the ground, could not earn a living, and he met this woman who just really loved him. She said to him, Go, take a course. Take one. He said, I do not want to go to college. She talked him into taking one course at a time until he finally became an assistant principle in New York City education system.

So what is the difference between the two brothers? My brother-in-law's brother, the one that was screwed up, married into a family with enough positive energy that he prospered and his children prospered. My brother-in-law, who was the stronger of the two brothers, married into a family with heavy curses, and he wound up with a sick wife (you do not get the best life when your wife is chronically ill, always in the hospital), and his children had problems. So it was the mixture. It was the blending. The two brothers married different women with different blessings and curses on their lives, and the blend of the two produced different degrees of prosperity in the family.

The people in this culture are so ignorant. Who you marry is so important. It is not enough to go, ooh, ooh, ooh, I feel good when I am with you, and get married. You do not know what you are doing to yourself when you get married based on a good feeling. I am not going to start on my social commentary today, so that is the answer. Did I answer your question, Tony?  

COMMENT: Yes, you answered it. Thank you very much.

PASTOR VITALE: OK, you are welcome. Yes, June.

QUESTION: Was it because of Job’s neglect of disciplining the children and to teach them the right way to live? He prayed for them, but was it because of the background that he brought his children up?

PASTOR VITALE: I do not know anything. I am not going to guess, June, and there is nothing in the Scripture about when they were children. My understanding is that they were already adults when he was praying.

COMMENT: OK.

PASTOR VITALE: But that is a good question. I do not know, but my understanding is that they were young adults. But were they young adults in his household? I do not know the answer to that, but it is a good question. Actually, that brings up a good topic to discuss. Let us hypothetically say that they were under his authority. I read a commentary on it. I have not looked in-depth into those Scriptures, but some say that where it says, And the daughters were in their brother’s household, that there was some incest going on there. I do not have a personal opinion on that, but if they were under his authority, then his giving offerings rather than disciplining them would have been sin on his part.

This is the guideline: when you have authority, wherever you have authority, you are required to judge righteous judgment, and if you do not judge righteous judgment, justice comes in and does it. If you do not train your children up properly, then they wind up in jail, or they wind up on -- and I am not blaming every parent whose child goes wrong. I am not doing that, OK. I am saying, if you do not judge them yourself, the government will wind up judging them, or justice will wind up judging them. So what happened with my parents, that three children got sick? I do not even want to get into that, but that is just the way it is. If you do not keep your own house, another power comes in and ministers righteous judgment. This is a law, a foundational law upon which we exist; sin will be judged. Maybe not immediately, and it could take generations to happen sometimes, but sin will be judged. So our best bet is to deal with sin, nip it right in the bud, and I do not always do that myself because I really am not at all happy about having to tell you all that you sin, although it is happening less. I do not know whether it is happening less and less because I am not doing the job or you are all doing a better job. I do not know, but it is not pleasant for any of us. But the Lord showed me years ago, if you do not nip it in the bud, it just festers, and it festers, and it festers, and it may take so long to blow up that when it blows up into a big explosion, you do not know why that big explosion came.

My whole family blew apart. I had a family when I was young. We were three sisters, had a mother, a father, had grandparents; we had a family. Then when my sisters got married, my parents on one side were friendly with the in-laws. There were a lot of people. What happened to my family? And I keep coming back to the same answer, that it was my brother-in-law’s incest with me that my parents abandoned me on, and the whole family just blew up. My mother would not defend me; my father would not defend me; and my sister accused me, an 11-year-old child, of seducing her 6-foot-4 husband. And right after, the whole family blew apart. Yes?

QUESTION: I have another question. Let's say, not so much you doing the violating, but let us say you get violated and the other person who violated you not only does not believe in the trespass offering and they do not really know that they violated you, how can you get healing if they are not willing to do what is necessary to be healed?

PASTOR VITALE: You have to forgive them anyway, even if they do not repent. You have to forgive them; that is how you get healing.

COMMENT: OK.

PASTOR VITALE: And that is a really important lesson, that forgiveness is not for the other person; it is for yourself, because that forgiveness will fester. You are in danger of it turning into a root of bitterness, which is the root for all kinds of physical illnesses down the line, so forgiveness of sin is for us. Now the fact that you forgive them -- and we have had these conversations -- does not mean you let them hurt you, and does not mean you let them abuse you or manipulate you. But I will tell you that it is my personal experience that, through true forgiveness, which is only in Christ Jesus, you ascend so high above the other person, that you really have compassion on them. And even though you will not let them hurt you now, it becomes almost like a parent and child situation. I mean, do you get mad at your 2-year-old that just went in their diaper? You do not.

When the true forgiveness comes and you ascend in Christ Jesus, you see the person as pitiful, especially if they cannot see that they did anything wrong, or they will not repent, or they do not care. You just look at them and how pitiful they are, that that forgiveness raises you up to such a high spiritual level that you can just have compassion on them. And then when you have that compassion on them, it eventually inures to their healing. Our God is the most amazing thing, and life in Christ Jesus is the most amazing experience because when God saves you, then you become a savior to everybody that hurts you; when you ascend to that height that you can look at them and say, How terribly sad that they thought they had to behave like this. How sad. Then the prayer is, May they have the same experience with God as I have had.  You get there eventually. Anybody else?

PASTOR VITALE: This turned out really good today. It turned out really good. Yes, June?

COMMENT: When your children are sinning, is there a certain point where you stop? I mean, they know what they are doing, so then you just completely stop because they know what they are doing?

PASTOR VITALE: Yes. There is nothing you can do, June, except ask the Lord to have mercy on them. And you need to understand that when you ask the Lord to have mercy on them, their lives may get worse because His mercy starts with judgment. There is nothing you can do, June.

COMMENT: Well, the judgment has been coming on with sickness, really, really, heavy sickness on both parties that are in adultery. And it is pitiful. It is just pitiful because you do not know... it is very hard.

PASTOR VITALE: It is very hard, June, but there is nothing you can do except ask God to have mercy on them. They have to answer for themselves. And, actually, if you can see it, if it can comfort you, the judgment that is on them is the mercy of God, without that they might never come to the Lord. With this judgment, they might come to the Lord, but there is no guarantee.

COMMENT: The woman knows that she is sinning. It is not my child, but she calls herself a born-again Christian.

PASTOR VITALE: Well, that is confession but no repentance.

COMMENT: OK.

PASTOR VITALE: There is confession, but there is a difference between confession and repentance. And there could be years between confession and repentance.

COMMENT: Wow. Her mother was in all this stuff.

PASTOR VITALE: That is Pentecost, you see. That is Pentecost. The gifts and the calling of God are without repentance. But, June, are you saying this because you care about the woman, or are you saying this because you are thinking, if she would be convicted of her sins and go away, your son would not be in adultery? What is your motive?

COMMENT: No. I feel sorry for her because... I do not know. I guess I feel sorry for both of them because you do not know whether to say; you cannot say anything, right?

PASTOR VITALE: June, I am just going to recommend to you that you ask the Lord because sometimes you do not know your own motives.

COMMENT: Yeah.

PASTOR VITALE: So if that is true, and, you know, I am never accusing you of anything, but if that is true, that there is a hope in your heart that if she would be convicted of that sin and go away, that your son would not be in adultery, then that is a sin on your part, and you have to deal with it. And, besides, he would just find someone else anyway. But aside from that, do not answer me now because you do not know. So it is a blessing that I am telling you that that is a possibility.

COMMENT: OK.

PASTOR VITALE: So if you will admit that it is a possibility because we are all capable of any sin, if you admit that it is a possibility, then, if it is true, the Lord will talk to you about it. So, I recommend that you admit that it is a possibility.

COMMENT: OK.

PASTOR VITALE: OK, Rita, what is your question?

COMMENT: When we talked this morning, you said something about giving a testimony of what I had experienced just recently. It was a combination of -- the Lord was beginning to give me understanding about how if someone was doing me wrong, like in a case with my husband when he would hurt me and I knew it was wrong, and I was dealing with it in an ungodly way, that I would get angry and yell and I may not even be telling him the truth.  But it was not in love, that having done those things, and several times since we have been married, I asked the Lord to help me to change on this because I knew it was wrong. And the other day we had an experience, and I will not go into every detail, but we had an experience where I again, it came up in my mind, things I wanted to say that I knew would probably be like going backwards, like, start an argument, and so here is what happened. I had that, kind of, in the back of my mind that this may be something that, if it continues or if I need to, I would consider giving a trespass offering if it would help me.

And so just the thought of that plus the understanding that God was giving me and how it affected him, what I was doing, I wanted to stop, and the thought of the two things, having understanding and giving the trespass offering, helped me even before I gave it to restrain myself. And I was really excited about that. I said, look at this, I am just -- it was coming into my mind to say something, and I restrained. And because of the understanding God began to give me about what was happening and the arguments and this idea of possibly giving a trespass offering to help me, so the two things were working together. He told me the two things would work together -- understanding and of wanting to stop. So I am -- I guess, what I am saying is too I was not just having an attitude like, well, you know, I am going to give this money because it is going to help me. I also had, I knew in my heart that I did want to stop, in my heart was that I did not want to continue to hurt him. That is the sin I wanted to stop, that I did not want to act this way and it was not Christ, and it was hurting the other person, the way things were being dealt with, whether truth or not. It could have been truth, but the way it was dealt with, I knew that it was not dealt with in love and Christ. So the two things together, I was restrained myself, and I tell you, about five different times, the temptation came up to just come right out of my mouth. We were in the car driving back from somewhere, and I restrained myself, so I was really excited about that because that is the first time that ever happened to that degree for me, and I did not find that strength before now. So this is really exciting. Something is really happening for help with that, but that is an excellent testimony of how I believe this is beginning to work.

PASTOR VITALE: Amen. Thank you.

COMMENT: Yes. And then other ideas that come into my mind since then that I believe are -- there is something to this, but there is another side of my mind that is not fully at peace, and that was before that I said to you -- when there were two main issues that were coming to my mind, was that Jesus is the sin offering. He is the trespass offering, and you said, Yes, He is. And I still need understanding about that overall. I think where I was coming from was not so much what I have been taught in the church. Actually, all this stuff was not really taught in the church, of these deep, going into the Scriptures very much, at least over the last 20 years. I do not think people are really digging in deep. Some churches are. And I am reading in the New Testament, and it is saying some things that are almost the opposite. Specifically, one major chapter is Hebrews 10, and when I am going through Hebrews 10, it looks like this is totally different than what is being said, and I would like understanding of these New Testament Scriptures. You know what I am saying? I would like -- I do not know if you have time to go over it now. It could take the rest of the meeting or, I do not know, it could take a while. Hebrews 10 is a major chapter that I would like understanding about. It is not flat out just saying what it is, but what it is saying, it looks like it is the opposite, so I need understanding of some of these New Testament Scriptures, if it is not what it is saying.

PASTOR VITALE: Well, Rita, you need to state a Scripture if you want me to answer it.

COMMENT: Well, Hebrews 10 is a major -- do you want me to go over some of it?

PASTOR VITALE: Well, let us see if anyone else -- I know there is at least one other person that has something to say, so let us see what they have to say, and then we will get back to you. You are going to have to give me a specific question, so let us just take this other person now, you know.

COMMENT: Rose has two questions. She asks, can you explain what is the fifth added to the trespass offering? And also it is my understanding that the priests set the amount of the trespass offering in shekels.

PASTOR VITALE: That the priests set the amount in shekels? I would like to see that Scripture, Rose, that the priests set the amount because I am not familiar with that, and the fifth part, my understanding of that is that you have to give five times the amount. In other words, if you borrowed $10 from somebody and you did not return it, you now owe them $50. I can ask the rabbi about that. I am not sure. It would mean the fifth part. I think it would mean you have to pay five times as much, so five times 10 would be $50. And as far as the priests setting the amount in shekels...

COMMENT: Yes. Margaret says the verse is Leviticus 5:15 about the shekels. And then she says 20 percent is added.

PASTOR VITALE: Let us take a look. Oh, five times is 20 percent. Let me do one thing at a time. Leviticus 5:15: If a soul commit a trespass, and sin through ignorance, in the holy things of the Lord; then he shall bring for his trespass unto the Lord a ram without blemish out of the flocks, with thy estimation by shekels of silver. Well, that says sin against the Lord. And sin through ignorance, in the holy things of the Lord. I do not know. I would have to pray about it. With thy estimation by shekels of silver. To be honest with you, before I even say anything about that, I would like to hear what the Jewish understanding of this is, and I would like to pray about it. If I can find an amount in the Scripture, I would give it to you, but I am really concerned about setting monetary amounts. I would like to do is pray about it, and I would like to get the correct understanding according to the Jewish people, which are experts on this, and that is all that I can tell you right now because I do not know. Was there a second question from Rose?

COMMENT: No. That was it.

PASTOR VITALE: OK. Does anybody else have a question? No, Rita, I will listen to what you have to say, but you have to give me a specific question. You have to read Hebrews, Chapter 10 and phrase it into a question, and I will do my best to answer it.

COMMENT: OK. I have Hebrews 10, so are you saying you want me to pick out a Scripture and do a question with that Scripture?

PASTOR VITALE: Right. You cannot tell me Hebrews 10. You have to give me a question. What Scripture do you think opposes what is being taught here?

COMMENT: Well, there are several in Hebrews 10, it looks like it. Let me see if I can pick out a specific one. It talks about the law having a shadow of good things to come, Hebrews 10:1, and then in verse 5, it says, The offering year by year never could make the comers therof perfect. And then it says, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body that has prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. So that would be my first question. It is saying here, In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure, and then it goes on to say more about that Jesus came to fulfill that. So first of all, Sacrificing and offering thou wouldest not, what does that mean compared to what you are saying? And that God has no pleasure in it, compared to what you are saying?

PASTOR VITALE: Well, it is two completely different things, Rita. What that is saying is that the Old Testament laws could not make you perfect, and I am in no way saying that this trespass offering will make you perfect. This trespass offering is a mechanism by which we can deal with the lingering effects of sin. I am not in any way suggesting it can make you perfect, and in any event, Jesus’ sacrifice -- well, let me say it another way.

The anointing that has come down here today that has blessed everybody, as far as I can see, and even your own testimony of how the Spirit moved in honor of your thinking along these lines, that is the Spirit of Jesus Christ working in a more perfect way than the offerings of the Old Testament, which were given, supposedly, to purge us of sin. So Jesus is a better way, and He is working through the application of the trespass offering that we are doing here because giving the money is not getting you anything. It is your faith by which you are honoring this spiritual understanding of the trespass offering that is bringing down the anointing of Jesus Christ to move on your behalf. And that was how I read Chapter 3 of the Book of Zechariah, that when you satisfy this understanding, that Jehovah will stand up and fight for you. The point of the matter is that, if Jesus was not resurrected, there would be no Spirit coming down to honor what you were doing.

COMMENT: Yeah. That is true that there seems to be a positive spirit about it.

PASTOR VITALE: Yeah. So you cannot separate the Spirit of God from the Word of God, so all of these sacrifices under the Old Testament, they were just ritual, and it saved the people from dying because Israel was a holy people. We are a holy people here. What makes you a holy person? It means that you have a relationship with God. And none of us can have a relationship directly with God. We have to have a mediator, so the Levitical priesthood was the mediator that made it acceptable to Jehovah to have a relationship with the Israelite people, and through that relationship, they were promised spiritual protection, not eternal life, but spiritual protection in their lifetime. So that was the extent of that covenant, that they would have spiritual protection, that the Lord would not put any of the diseases that he put on the Egyptians upon them. It was spiritual protection in that lifetime. That was the extent of the promise.

Now Jesus came down and became the fulfillment. By His Spirit, the power to make us perfect, to make our conscience perfect. So under the Old Covenant, it did not make your conscience perfect; it simply protected your body from disease, and you were promised provision, which is very much what is going on with the Holy Spirit today. It does not perfect your conscience. The Holy Spirit, and it is not guaranteed, provides spiritual healing and provision, the provisions of the atmosphere, everything I have spoken about already, but it does not make your conscience perfect. What we are talking about now, with the application of the trespass offering, plus the glorified Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ, which has the power to make us perfect, we are integrating the Levitical law with the power to make us perfect to in fact move us that much closer to perfection, if you can understand what I said.

COMMENT: OK. And then further on, it says in Hebrews, verse 8, where it said again, Did not have the pleasure and the bulls and the goats being offered under the law, and then it said, Then he said, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Now that sounds that He took that away and He established the second, which is the body of Jesus Christ that was offered. It says once and for all, so that sounds like that the offering of the body of Jesus Christ was done one time for everything.

PASTOR VITALE: Well, Rita, what you are asking me to do, I really cannot do because I would have to look at the -- I have already looked that up, and I do not recall what it means. That is the Scripture by which the church believes that Jesus was offered as a human sacrifice in place of the animal sacrifices, which is not true. We are not saved because the human body of Jesus of Nazareth was crucified. That is not why we are saved. We are saved by the resurrected spiritual body of Jesus Christ that is manifesting as Christ Jesus in the midst of us, so I cannot comment on that Scripture without looking it up in the interlinear text, and that is not really what we are doing here right now today.

COMMENT: OK.

PASTOR VITALE: But I know that you mentioned that to me on the phone, and I just encourage everybody that may still be caught by that Scripture, that Jesus of Nazareth was not a human sacrifice in place of the animals. You just get from one doctrinal error to the other because the sacrifice had to be perfect and was without sin, but the human body itself is a sin body, so we are going to get into deep doctrine that it is different than this message. He was not offered as an animal sacrifice, and that the sacrifice of the body of Jesus of Nazareth does not save us. It says the offering of the body of Christ. I would have to look at it. I do not recall what it meant, but it is not talking about the physical body of Jesus of Nazareth, and I would like to remember what it meant, but I cannot, and so I cannot turn the whole meeting over to that, Rita, but it is a wrong understanding of the Scripture.

That which saves us is the resurrected body of the Lord Jesus Christ, who is no longer the Lord Jesus Christ alone; He is now a part of the body of Messiah. He is now Messiah. He is not Jesus of Nazareth anymore. He is the Messiah, a spiritual man, and He saves us by giving us His seed, which reproduces His life inside of us. It is Christ Jesus in the midst of us that saves us. That Scripture is completely mistranslated and misunderstood, and the body of Christ is suffering severely for that error. That is all that I am willing to say on that today, Rita.

COMMENT: OK. I am not saying I believe that it was Jesus' human body that was the sacrifice. I am just wanting to know the understanding of this Scripture, and I know you said you would have to go into the interlinear text, but I would be interested if you would be willing to look it up, as to what the answer to that is, if the Lord gives you something about it. The Scripture goes on and says, For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. So, again, it is saying, For by one offering He perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

PASTOR VITALE: Rita, there is one answer.

COMMENT: I would just like to know what these Scriptures mean. I certainly am not refuting you. I am just wanting to know what it means. If that is not what it says in the King James, what does it mean?

PASTOR VITALE: Rita, this is not the place for this, and it is the same answer to every question that you have. I am just going to be repeating myself. It is the resurrected body and blood of the Lord Jesus Christ that gives us the power to bring to pass all of the promises, and the King James translation and most translations make it sound like it has already been done for us, but it has not already been done for us. We have received the power to do it, and it is so obvious that it has not yet been done for us, that the Church made up the story that after you die, you go to heaven, which is a lie. What Jesus’ death and resurrection, primarily His resurrection, did was provide the power to give us and fulfill all of the promises of God in our lives, and that is what we are doing here with the trespass offering. We are using the Levitical law as a blueprint, as a foundation to work from to get an understanding of what we need to do and what we need and what we need to do. And then the power of the glorified Lord Jesus Christ comes down and makes it real for us, and that is the explanation for the whole chapter that you are reading, which the church does not understand, choosing to believe that, when we answer an altar call, all of that happens to us instantly. Did you hear what I said?

COMMENT: Yeah.

PASTOR VITALE: OK. So you need to take what I just told you and pray about every Scripture and get some answers from God, but I will look up that one Scripture for you because I should know it myself. But as far as the whole chapter goes, that is how you have to apply it. You have to integrate the King James translation with the spiritual teaching, or you are going to get stuck, and I know this has happened to you before, that you have gotten stuck on the letter of the Word. You are going to get into trouble if you get stuck on the letter of the Word, OK?

COMMENT: Yeah. Well, some of these explanations here, like I said, I was just sitting here listening, and I think I would have to listen to it again and, kind of, go over it, what you just said.

PASTOR VITALE: Yeah. You need to really pray about what I just told you and ask God to help you to understand it. I have told you this before, that there is some kind of a bondage, and I will pray for you. There is some kind of a bondage that you get stuck on that letter of the Word, so I just take a hammer to that bondage, and the Lord just said it is like a rock in there, so that means it is a spirit of idolatry on your mind, that you have not been able to come out from under it. So I take the hammer of the Lord, and I smash all of those rocks and that idolatry for the letter of the Word that you were raised up in, and I break the ungodly soul ties with your family that so strongly believe in the letter of the Word and oppose you continuously; oppose your attempts to go into the spirit of the Word continuously. I break that ungodly soul tie, and I break that bondage, and I break the idols, and I smash them, and I pray that Christ Jesus should rise up in great power and strength and meet your every need; answer your every question and give you every understanding that you need to satisfy you, in Jesus’ name. That is my prayer for you, Rita, amen.

COMMENT: OK. Thank you, amen.

PASTOR VITALE: And I saw the rock shattering in the spirit, so I believe that you got that. I do not know how long it is going to take to materialize in your mind, but I believe you got the deliverance.

COMMENT: Well, thank you.

PASTOR VITALE: You are very welcome, Rita. God bless you. Any other questions from anybody? OK.

I did prepare an Alternate Translation. I am going to take a break, though. I just wanted to give you this introduction. What I did was, I looked up the word emerods in my interlinear Bible program. Well, I have the law here for you. We can go over that.

Starting on page 4, I gave a definition of the Hebrew word, I see I did not write it in there. That is a definition on page 4 of the Hebrew word that is translated emerod, and I have translated every Scripture in which that word appears. It is, basically, Deuteronomy 28:27 and then starting with 1 Samuel 5; I translated every Scripture in 1 Samuel 5 and 1 Samuel 6 that has to do with emerods. I do not know how much we are going to be able to do. We have a little over an hour, except that I am very tired, and I am going to have to take a break.

If you want to take a look while I am inside, starting on page 13, I have integrated the King James translation of 1 Samuel, Chapter 5 and Chapter 6 with the verses that I did an Alternate Translation on, all of which mention the emerods, which is another way of saying hemorrhoids. And before that, if you want to see how I got these Alternate Translations, the whole work up is there. So when I come out after the break, I think that we will probably go past the first two pages, which are the Scriptures. We have spent a lot of time on these.

Who knows what I am going to do when I come out. I guess I am going to do whatever the Lord wants me to do. I do not see how we are going to do the whole thing today, but who knows. I need to take a break, at least 10 minutes, and we will see how far we get with this when I come out. I want to thank you all. I want to thank everybody that participated. It was a tremendous meeting.

Transcribed by Verbal Fusion 06/17/16
1^st Edit 06/20/16 sp
2^nd Edit 10/14/16 rh