Part 4 of 6 Parts

The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For
Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By
The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.

 

How to tell whether or not the spirit is of God.

The most difficult way is to try the spirit and recognize it as Christ, but the Scripture says only someone who has Christ in themselves can recognize Christ in someone else. If Christ Jesus is growing in your own heart, you will recognize him everywhere he is appearing, and I think we talked about this once in a meeting not too long ago. People recognize in other people what they know intimately in themselves. If you are a drug addict or an ex drug addict, you are very likely to be able to recognize a drug addict. [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- I think you were here the night we talked about that. You know what a drug addict looks like. You just see it on their face. You see it in the color of their skin. If you are an adulterer, you will recognize adultery. I am telling you, people doing everything they can to cover it up, you will pick up the spirit on their face, and you will know that that married man and that married woman are up to something, OK. So Paul said -- P- -- that is in the Scripture. He says that you recognize sin in other people because you have done it yourself.

In the same way, Jesus takes people who have been delivered from sin and sends them to help people that are still bound by the same kind of sin. Why? Because the person who has been delivered from it can have compassion on them, can understand their bondage, can understand their difficulties and can also be a testimony to them that there is hope, OK. So if you have the Spirit of Christ and you are on the positive side, if you have an active, functioning Christ in you, you will recognize Christ wherever he is moving, just like -- you take people, Asian people. It is no compliment to we Caucasians here, but you will hear it from a lot of people that all Asians look alike. We cannot tell whether they come from China or Japan or Thailand or Vietnam. Can you tell the difference between a Thai and a Vietnamese? I cannot, but if you are a Thai, you can tell a difference between a Thai or a Vietnamese. So if you have the Spirit of Christ, you recognize his Spirit wherever he is appearing. Does that make any sense to you? OK. Now that is hard because you have to have a fairly mature Christ with some experience to be able to do that.

What is the other thing that you could look for is? Does anybody know what the other thing is? You have to look for righteousness on the man. You look for his lifestyle, OK. So a dead giveaway that the spirit may -- and this is iffy too, you know -- may not be Christ is if the person is in habitual sin. Anybody could fall or have a misstep here or there, but an ongoing habitual sin that flies in the face of God’s righteousness that says I do not care what the word of God says, and I am going to do what I want to do, what I want to do. The chances that the anointing on that man is true is small, OK. So you are looking for righteousness on the man. You are looking --

You can ask God. I did that one night. I was in a church, and I did not -- I questioned whether or not it was God’s Spirit. I said, Lord, is that your Spirit? I did not think it was, and the Lord told me that it was because the Spirit of Christ does not always act the same way in every church or in every person. He is a creative God. He does not do -- always do the same thing in everybody, so you c- -- if you have a relationship with the Lord at all, you can s- -- excuse me, you can say, Lord, is that your Spirit? And he will witness to you whether it is true or not. But, of course, the more experienced you are in Christ, the easier it is, and the lesser experienced you are, the harder it is. But God is faithful, and if you are considering going to a particular church and you are not sure that it is the Spirit of Christ, if you ask him to set you free if you are making a mistake, he will get you out. Did I answer your question? Yeah. Sorry it is not simpler. Sorry --

            [INAUDIBLE]

Why am I sorry it is --

            [CROSSTALK]

-- not simpler? Because I am sorry for everybody that it is not simpler; it is hard to discern --

            [CROSSTALK]

-- the Spirit of Chri- -- it is not a question of understanding it; it is hard to practice it. It is hard to recognize the Spirit of Christ.

            For me it is.

Yeah. It is hard for everybody.

            For you?

Not for me, you know. But that --

            You can go practically anywhere in this world, and there is [INAUDIBLE] Spirit of Christ [INAUDIBLE]

Well, pretty much so, but the Scripture says, if it were possible, the very elect could be deceived, so I could be deceived, but I can see the spirit on people. I recognize it pretty quickly. See, the closer your intimacy with the Lord, the more likely you are the recognize him living in another human being. The better you know him and the more years you have spent with him and the more times a- -- you have spent with him and the more experiences you have had with him, the more likely you are to recognize that same God that you love in another human being. So the younger you are, the harder it is, but he is faithful. OK. Anything else? OK.

            [INAUDIBLE]

OK. Let us try and preach this. [AUDIO CUTS OUT]

[INAUDIBLE] now most Christians that I know of do not manifest Christ most of the time, you know. Most of them manifest Christ in church, OK.

            Why is that?

I only see him when he is manifesting. Because Christians -- the average Christian is very immature, and that is not an insult. We are growing up in Christ, and church is a schoolroom. For s- -- for a Christian to be manifesting Christ in their everyday life, it takes a mature Christian, and there are not that many around. And those that are around, they will manifest him for 15 minutes here or a half an hour there because, when you go to your secular job, when you go to work, you cannot manifest Christ. You have to do your job, and Christ is not doing your job. It is your carnal mind doing your job.

            Where are the angels?

Where are the angels?

            [?You just prayed for me to?] [INAUDIBLE]

Angels, a- --

            Are they not somewhere around me during the day? [INAUDIBLE]

They are down in the bottom of the ship, and they only come up when they are manifesting. So, so long as you are engaged in carnal activities, it is not likely --

            [CROSSTALK]

-- that people will see Christ in you. To ha- -- to reveal Christ, you must be doing the works of Christ, and not many Christians today do the works of Christ outside of church, and if they do do them, they are far and few between for many reasons, the major reason being that everybody is engaged in the pursuit of this life. That --

            [INAUDIBLE]

-- t- -- Christ is recognized -- well, you know, you -- in occult, you hear a lot about auras, OK, and there is such a thing. I do not really kno- -- well, I do know it. In the Sc- -- the godly equivalent of an aura is called a shadow. We are told that Peter had a shadow over him. It is not the kind of shadow that is cast by this natural sun; it is the equivalent of the occult aura. So some Christians will have a shadow on them or a glow on them that you might be able to see, OK. We are told that Stephen had the face of an angel as he was martyred. But most of us -- in most of us, Christ is recognized by the words that we speak and the things that we do. S- --

            [?What is the?] face of an angel?

It is a glow, a glow on the face.

            [CROSSTALK]

A glow, yeah. But mo- -- t- -- [?and it?] -- the measure of Christ that we see in people today is discerned by what they say and what they do, but even more what they say because if they are speaking the words of Christ, that Spirit is up in them, if you could see it.

We are continuing with the Book of Zephaniah, Chapter 2 tonight. I do not know about you, but this is really blessing me. This is Part 4, and I am going to read you the Alternate Translations from the -- from Part 3.

And as I tell you almost every time I preach, for whatever reason, I am not sure why, when we work up the Alternate Translations from books of prophecy, it is very common that the sequence is not logical. What does that mean? That means that, for example, if I tell you that I wake up in the morning, and I have my dinner, and as the day goes on, I have my breakfast, that that is not a logical sequence. We wake up in the morning, and we have breakfast, and then we have dinner. So for whatever reason, the sequence frequently is illogical in the translation, and as I put it into the English in a read- -- a form of readable English, I will change the sequence. So I am going to read you our Alternate Translations in this order: verse 5, verse 6, verse 4 and verse 7.

Verse 5, “Woe unto the heathen who killed Christ and is appearing in the visible physical world as a company of wandering men who are joined to their own souls. The resurrected Christ is against you, you dead soul, and shall stop Satan, fallen Adam’s unconscious mind, from living through you by drying up her sea.”

Verse 6, “And the company of wandering men who are married to their carnal minds shall lay hold of the spiritual military power of the Lord Jesus Christ, and Christ Jesus shall cut off the carnal mind, the Christ killer who violently carried the woman away, and make them barren. And their human spirits shall p- -- overcome Satan’s spiritual power and separate herself from the carnal mind, and they shall divorce Satan and marry Christ Jesus.”

Verse 7, “And the company of men who were wanderers but are now married to Christ Jesus shall be a lifeline to the survivors of the house of Judah, and their God Jehovah shall reverse their captivity. And all of the men who are migrating from the dead soul into the living soul shall lose their carnal minds, and they shall marry Christ Jesus and lie down in peace.”

Let me remind you that we stay with the Hebrew words as they appear in the original text, but as in English, every Hebrew word has a multiplicity of potential translations. And what we do here is just change the -- we select a different word. The Hebrew is exactly the same, and under the revelation anointing of the Lord Jesus Christ, we come up with these Alternate Translations. We do not change the Hebrew at all, just the English translation.

Continuing with Zephaniah 2:8, “I have heard the reproach of Moab, and the revilings of the children of Ammon, whereby they have reproached my people, and magnified themselves against their border.”

The Hebrew word translated “heard,” Strong's 8085, means “to understand;” it can also be translated “to give heed,” and we are going to translate it here “to notice.” I [?gave?] [UNINTELLIGIBLE] in modern English, I noticed. Jehovah noticed something. “Reproach;” the Hebrew word translated “reproach” is translated “contempt” in the interlinear; it is Strong's 2781, and it means “strong” -- I am sorry, it means “scorn or contempt which rests upon anyone,” “a person or a thing despised.” It also can -- is -- can be and is translated in Isaiah 47:3 “pudenda.”

Does anybody remember what pudenda means? We find this in almost all of the prophets. It is a word that means the spiritual, sexual parts of the creation. Now we know we have spiritual, sexual parts. What are they? The mind reproduces. The mind -- remember, you sow seed in our mind, and it grows. Our mind is the reproductive organ of man. And this word “pudenda,” if you look it up in the English dictionary, it means sexual parts, usually and more often the not, the female sexual parts. And what are the female sexual parts of our mind, of the creation?

            [INAUDIBLE]

Hmm?

            Spirit.

Well, I did not mean that. Let me say it in another way. What is the name of the female sexual parts of fallen man?

            [INAUDIBLE]

No. It is the carnal mind, OK. It is the carnal mind, and the female sexual parts of resurrected man is Christ.

            [CROSSTALK]

That is what makes you a man. That is how there is no male or female in Christ Jesus. If your mind is male, you are a male. It has nothing to do with your body. Spiritual activity has nothing whatsoever to do with your body. That is how there could be no male or female in Christ Jesus. What does that mean? If you are in Christ Jesus, if your mind is Christ Jesus, you are a spiritual male. If the Lord should decide to appear in a donkey to put the mind of Christ in a donkey, that donkey would be spiritually male; it has nothing to do with your body. And maleness means power; it means spiritual power. If your mind is weak, you are -- have a female mind. Maleness means strength; it means authority; it -- and it means domination. So if your mind is Christ, if your mind is truly Christ, you have authority in this world; you have strength in this world; and you have the ability to dominate any other spirit that challenges you. And the other spirit in this world is who?

            [INAUDIBLE]

Satan and his carnal mind, amen. There is only two, and it is not a fair fight. Christ is the winner; he just has not accomplished it yet. The only problem is Satan and his carnal mind does not know it, so they are fighting to the death, therefore they must be -- if they are fighting to the death, they must be --

            [CROSSTALK]

-- killed. They must surely be killed. Who? Everybody’s carnal mind must surely be killed. Why? Because the word of the Lord that was written in this book that was originally spoken into the heavenlies by the glorified -- but -- well, he was not glorified -- but by the living God must surely come to pass. The message of the prophets, which is the gospel of the kingdom -- it is not the gospel of the cross; it is the gospel of the kingdom. It must surely come to pass, however long it takes. It must, and it shall come to pass. Where, on Mars somewhere? Where, in a hole on the ground?

            [?In our minds?].

In your mind, in your mind, in your mind, in your mind and in my mind. It must surely come to pass.

And so we see that this word “reproach” is speaking about the carnal mind. I am sorry. That is an alternate translation. It is in Gesenius’ Hebrew-Chaldee Dictionary. The word that is translated “reproach” in the King James and “contempt” in the King James too can legitimately and, in fact, is translated “pudenda” in Isaiah 47:3, and I suggest to you that it is speaking about the carnal mind.

And f- -- Peter tells us in 1 Peter 1:13, “Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind.” And if you look up that word “loins” in the Greek, it clearly means the sexual parts of the mind, in this verse speaking about the male sexual parts which is Christ. Gird Christ up; do not let him be seduced or corrupted or brought down to the low realm that the carnal mind would bring him to. It is a reality. God had a Son. It took a male spirit, and it took a female spirit. I had somebody write to me from California. Where do you find all this in the Scripture? It is all over the Scripture. God had a Son; he is the only begotten Son. Not only is he his Son, but he was begotten. What do you mean where do I find this in the Scripture? It is all over the Scripture. It is just offending you, that is all.

So we see that this Hebrew word translated “reproach” is speaking about the carnal mind. “I have heard of the reproach of Moab.” “Moab,” Strong's 4124; it means “water.” I am quoting you from Gesenius Hebrew-Chaldee Dictionary, “water,” i.e. “seed,” “male seed,” “progeny of a father.” That is what the word means. Moab is the name of the son whom Lot’s eldest daughter brought to him after the destruction of Sodom. In case those of you are not familiar with the story, let me briefly tell you the story. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by the fire of God for homosexuality, and Lot and his family were taken to safety by the angels, but Lot’s wife died. Anybody remember why?

            She looked back.

She looked back. She lusted for the things that were in Sodom, and she died. So Lot found himself in a cave with his two daughters, and his two daughters decided that they would not like to spend the rest of their life without a child. Their father being the only male around, they took turns lying with their father, and each of them brought forth a child of incest. Moab was the child of Lot’s eldest daughter, child of incest, and Moab means “the progeny of a father.”

So we see that the word “Moab,” when we com- -- when -- the word Moab is speaking about the carnal mind, and the carnal mind is a product of incest. The carnal mind is a product of spiritual incest. Brethren, God made a soul, and that soul had parts to it. Just like you have a body and you have lungs and you have a heart and you have a liver, God made a soul, and that soul had several parts to it, and that soul was waiting to be married to Jehovah. And the result of that marriage would be a what? They are quiet here tonight. When a spirit marries a soul, what happens?                         

            [?A mind?].

The soul gives birth to a mind, yes. The soul gives birth to a mind, and the mind is supposed to have a spirit as a father and the soul as a mother. And as in a woman there is a particular organ that bears the child, there is a particular organ in the soul that bears the mind. And that organ is, anybody?

            The human spirit.

The human spirit is the female parts of the soul. Well, what happened to us? The reason we are dead, the reason that we died, is the flesh gave birth to a flesh mind. One part of the soul rose up and acted like a male and fertilized his own sou- -- the o- -- the soul that he was a part of, and the carnal mind is the product of incest. Can you hear that? The carnal mind is a product of incest; that is why we died: The judgment for incest is death.

So we see that the Lord, here in Zephaniah 2:8, speaking about Hebrew words that are translated “the reproach of Moab,” if you are looking for the deep spiritual meaning or the parabolic meaning or the double meaning, because all prophecy has double meaning -- even the history books has double meaning. Carnal [?or the letter?] and deep spiritual significance to it. The deep spiritual significance of the phrase “the reproach of Moab” is the carnal mind. That which is embarrassing to the product of incest is the carnal mind. That result of the incest is the carnal mind.

So the contempt or the contemptible thing which is of Moab or which is born of the incest of Moab is Satan’s spiritual sexual parts, the carnal mind, and we are told that this unholy activity continues continuously in every fallen man. Spiritual adultery continues all the time, and we see in the Book of Revelation the harlot riding on top of the beast. She is the mother of all contemptible things of the earth. She is the mother of every carnal mind; she is the mother of every demon. The human spirit of man joined up to Satan has brought forth every filthy thing that is in the minds of the people in this world system.

“And the revilings of the children of Ammon.” The Hebrew word translated “revilings,” the interlinear, the King James too translates it “reproaches,” Strong's 1421. It is from the root Strong's 1442, and it means “to cut off.” “Children of Ammon;” Ammon is the son of Lot’s younger daughter, and his name really means “relative.” He too is the product of incest. So we see “the reproach of Moab” is speaking about the carnal mind, and the sons of Ammon is also speaking about the sons of the product of incest.

And let me remind you that the carnal mind is appearing on two levels in this world, just as Christ is appearing on two levels. We have the Lord Jesus Christ appearing as the [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- as the new unconscious mind of man, and Christ Jesus is the individual manifestation of Christ, or I should say the manifestation of Christ in the individual, your new mind, Christ Jesus in you, the hope of glory. The Lord Jesus Christ is in pure spirit form, and he is the corporate unconscious mind of everyone who is in fact a member of the body of Christ, and the Lord Jesus Christ is one with Jehovah. When Jesus was raised from the dead and he ascended he returned unto spirit form and became one with the Father. When one ocean flows into another ocean, you can no longer distinguish between the two oceans. The Lord Jesus Christ who had become pure spirit flowed back up unto the Father who was pure spirit, and now they are one.

Does anyone recall the difference between -- the difference in function between Jehovah and the Lord Jesus Christ, anybody? The Lord Jesus Christ is the manifestation or the administration of the Spirit of God which exists inside of the mind of a man. Jehovah is the name that almighty God takes when he is beyond or outside of the mind of a man. Jehovah is higher than the heavens. The heavens exist inside of the mind of a man. Jehovah is higher than that; he is beyond the mind of man. He is within the mind of man, and he is also beyond it. Satan exists only within the mind of a man; he does not exist outside of the mind of man. So Jehovah is greater; he is higher; he is the greatest of all of the gods.

So we see that the phrase “the revilings of the children of Ammon” i- -- well, I guess, I did not make my point. Let me go back.

So what I am suggesting to you is that Moab, “the reproach of Moab,” is speaking about the carnal mind which is operating in the function of the unconscious mind of man, OK. He has become one with Satan. You could call him the first generation of the carnal mind if you like. We call the Lord Jesus Christ the first generation of Christ, and Christ Jesus in the hearts of the people today we call the second generation of Christ. The carnal mind operating as the corporate or the group unconscious mind that flows through the mind of everybody -- that is how you have psychic phenomenon, OK. It is the first generation of the carnal mind, but to simplify things we will just call him Satan. And the children of Ammon is the second generation of the carnal mind; we will just call him the carnal mind just to simplify things. We have Satan in the unconscious mind, and the carnal mind is the individual mind of the fallen man in the individual person. So we see in the phrases, “the reproach of Moab, and the revilings of the children of Ammon,” the Scripture is speaking in a hidden way about Satan and the carnal mind of men -- Satan and the carnal minds of men.

So the Lord is saying I have heard about the carnal mind. I have noticed the unconscious mind and the conscious carnal minds of fallen men. I have noticed that your mind is not my son. I have noticed that your mind is not Christ. What does that mean? I have noticed that you have been unfaithful to me. I have noticed that you have committed adultery. How do I know? You have given birth to a bastard offspring which is female, weak and beggarly, and my creation has a therefore manifested in a corruptible, perverted form in this world system where she is subject to the pestilence of Hell. She gets sick. She g- -- dies. If you hit her with a car, she breaks. If you cut her with a knife, she tears.

Brethren, you may be so used to this weakened condition that you think it is normal, but this weakened condition is not normal. It is a perversion; it is an abomination unto the Lord. We are a creation which was designed to be -- anybody? Immortal. And we have become mortal because of the sin of rebellion. God said unto Adam thou shalt not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, but if you do, you shall surely die to your immortality. The Hebrew word translated “die” does not mean “to cease to exist;” it means “to become mortal.”

Alternate Translation, the first half of Zephaniah 2:8, “I have noticed” -- Jehovah speaking, “I have noticed that the unconscious and conscious minds of my creation are carnal.”

I have noticed your adultery, and not only your adultery, but the proof of it. We, brethren, this humanity in the condition we are in, are the undisputable proof of our ancestors’ adultery, incestuous adultery. We do not look like we were supposed to look; we do not act like we were supposed to act; we do not walk or talk like we were supposed to walk and talk. We are not glorious. We are conne- -- contemptible and corruptible, and we have all fallen short of the glory of God, and we need to be able to confess that before the Lord can restore us back unto the glory of God. I do not know about you, but I want to be restored back unto the glory of God. I do not like it when you cut with me a knife and I -- and it hurts.

Continuing with the second half of Zephaniah 2:8, “Whereby they have reproached my people, and magnified themselves against their border.”

The Hebrew word translated “reproached” is translated as “cursed” in the King James too, the interlinear text. It is Strong's 2778, and it means “to count one’s life as little” or “to pluck up,” and when -- the significance is, when you pluck up a plant, it dies. The word “people” is Strong's 5971; that is a word that is used throughout the Scriptures to describe Israel, God’s people. And the Hebrew word translated “magnified” is Strong's 1431; it means “to twist or bind threads together.”

Now I remind you that God is weaving a garment for his Spirit. Does anybody remember what part of our spiritual being is the garment for God’s Spirit, anybody? The mind. God’s Spirit is in the mind, and the mind is in the soul. The Spirit of Christ is in the mind of Christ, and the mind of Christ is a weaving together of the Spirit of Christ -- I am sorry, of the -- of Christ -- the mind of Christ is a weaving together of Christ and Satan. Satan is the negative pole of the creation; Christ is the positive pole of the creation. The Scripture calls it the warp and woof of the garment. Christ is going from heaven to earth; he is vertical. And Satan is running along the circle of the earth; he is horizontal. And the garment is being woven, and Satan’s function is to give form and structure p- -- to the mind, that it could be seen.

But what happens when the mind of Christ breaks down and Satan weaves his carnal mind is that Satan is both the warp and the woof of the garment. He is taking on a role that he is not qualified to fulfill and the garment is therefore imperfect and corruptible and vile. So we see this word “magnified” signifying “to twist or bind threads together,” and I am suggesting to you that the spiritual significance of the word is the weaving together of the mind of the people that God is speaking about, and he is speaking about his whole creation.

Let us see what this is saying. Well, I will give you a few more words first.

“Whereby they have reproached my people, and magnified themselves against their border.” The Hebrew word translated “against,” Strong's 5921, means “to overlay something,” “to superimpose,” “to lay one thing on top of the other.” “Their border,” Strong's 1366, means “the space included within certain borders,” and I want to suggest to you that the space that the Scripture is talking about or the space that lies between the borders of the mind is the human spirit.

What the Scripture is saying here is that the carnal minds of the men of Israel have plucked up the Christ mind and rewoven the threads of their mind with Satan as both the warp and the woof, and they have stretched their garment, the carnal mind, over the space or over the human spirit which lies within the borders of the minds of fallen man. The Scripture is saying my people have plucked up or killed the Christ mind. How do you kill the Christ mind, anybody? How do you kill the Christ mind?

            [INAUDIBLE]

Amen. By living out of your carnal mind, by agreeing with your carnal mind. Brethren, everything you do, every thought that you think during the day is a choice. Will it come from your carnal mind, or will it come from your Christ mind? As simple as the choice seems to be to you, once the mind of Christ begins to be formed in you, everything you do is a choice, and when you choose to live out of your carnal mind or if you start slipping and making one out of six choices your carnal mind, that you think you can get away with it, do not be deceived because you are under a seduction.

Today you are making one out of six choices with your carnal mind; tomorrow you are making two out of six choices with your carnal mind; and next month you are making four choices out of your carnal mind; and next year you have gone completely into your carnal mind, and you have tread Christ underfoot. And we are told in the Book of Hebrews you have crucified the Son of God afresh, and you must come under judgment to purify the fault in you that has seduced you or permitted you to be seduced to engage in this ungodly spiritual activity, which has in fact killed Christ in your mind.

Alternate Translation, the second half of Zephaniah 2:8, “Whereby they have plucked up their Christ mind and woven together their carnal minds and overlaid their human spirits,” with that Christ mind; that is the significance.

Amplified translation, second half, Zephaniah 2:8, “Whereby they have plucked up their Christ mind and woven their human spirits together with their carnal minds, and this is done through sin.”

Alternate Translation, the whole of Zephaniah 2:8, “I have noticed the unconscious and the conscious carnal minds of fallen Adam, whereby they have plucked up their Christ mind and woven their human spirits together with their carnal minds.”

Let us try it again, a little better English. “I” -- Jehovah speaking, “I have noticed that Satan has formed her carnal mind in my people and that their carnal minds have killed Christ and woven themselves together with their human spirits.”

And, brethren, I declare to you this happened in Israel, and it happens in the church, in God’s church, all the time. Everybody has heard about some preacher that was so anointed one year, and the next year, they were not anointed. What happened? They lost the mind of Christ. Why? Because of sin. Which sin? I am not sure, but I can tell you for sure it was because of sin. Where the Christ mind was and where the Christ mind no longer is, is sin because that is the only reason that will cause the Christ mind to go away or to die. Now, of course, Christ has not died throughout the earth, but he can die in an individual.

Continuing with Zephaniah 2:9, “Therefore as I live, saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, Surely Moab” -- did that just click off, Celia?

            [INAUDIBLE]

No. It was another noise, OK.

Verse 9, “Therefore as I live, saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, Surely Moab shall be as Sodom, and the children of Ammon as Gomorrah, the breeding of nettles, and saltpits, and a perpetual desolation: the residue of my people shall spoil them, and the remnant of my people shall possess them.”

You know, there are many Christians who do not read the Old Testament. A Scripture like this says to them, well, these Scriptures have already been fulfilled; Sodom and Gomorrah have been destroyed. Why would I study the Old Testament? Because, brethren, there is a hidden, spiritual meaning that has not yet been fulfilled, and we need to know what God is saying to his church.

We are told in the Book of Daniel, in the last days, knowledge will be increased. We are living in a very exciting day. God is sharing with his people his plan of salvation, and those of us who are -- who -- to whose ears this message has come are a blessed people. Blessed are the ears that hear this word, that we might work with the Lord and hopefully be amongst the first to be resurrected out of the death of this world system, not our bodies. Our bodies are not being resurrected because that would mean our bodies would have to die first, but that which has already died is being resurrected. And that which has already died is, anybody?

            [INAUDIBLE]

Christ. The Christ mind, which the Father begot into his creation at the beginning of time, died. And the name of that event is?

            The fall.

The fall. And he is still dead. How do I know? Everybody’s body dies. Your body cannot die if your mind is alive. The only reason our body dies is because our mind is --

            [INAUDIBLE]

-- dead. So our dead mind must be not only resurrected but renewed because that kernel of life which the Father breathed into the creation at the beginning of time -- the Scripture says he breathed the breath of life into the creation, and the creation became a living soul. That breath, when it got inside of the soul, took on a different name. Outside of the soul, it is God’s breath; when it is in God it is God’s breath. Once it gets into the soul, what is the name of it? The human spirit, OK.

And the human spirit joined to the Spirit of Jehovah, and she gave birth to his Son, the mind of Christ. And when Christ died, that kernel of God’s life, which was called breath in Jehovah but which is called human spirit in man, remained, and instead of being joined to the breath of -- to the spiritual seed of the Father, joined to another part of her own soul, Satan, and begot his offspring, the carnal mind. Therefore, the mind must be renewed for us to be raised from the dead. That kernel of God’s life must be separated from the carnal mind and rejoined unto the spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ and once again give birth to the mind of Christ. And the Scripture says the mind of Christ raised from the dead dieth no more, so th- -- in this renewal of the mind, Christ will be raised to a higher position than he was at the beginning of time and shall never die again, says the Lord.

“Therefore as I live, saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, Surely Moab shall be as Sodom, and the children of Ammon as Gomorrah”

Well, these first few words are exactly what they say. Jehovah is saying that he is the living God, and we know that if there is a living God, there must be a dead god. Or we could say, if there is a God of the living, then there must be a god of the dead. Jehovah is the living God, and he is the God of the living; he is the God of the spirits of men. So we see Jehovah exalting himself. Now if we see a man exalting himself like this, we would tell him that he was filled with pride, but Jehovah exalts himself all the time. He says I am the greatest God of all the gods. He says I am the only God that is alive. I am the living God, and what I say comes to pass because everything that I say is a creative word. He said I am the God of Israel, and I am also the Lord of hosts, “hosts” meaning “armies.” I am the master of the armies of Israel.

Now some of us find it very funny that the church is an army. God called the ragtag slaves coming out of Egypt his armies. He has a sense of humor. No, he does not have a sense of humor; he has confidence in himself. He knows that he could take any man that he wants to and make him glorious. He could make him into anything he wants him to be, therefore, if the Lord calls you and you will not go because you think you are not worthy or you think you are not able, you are a profane man because you have put your mind up against and opposed the mind of God, whereas the mind of God has said I am full well able to make you into everything that I have called you to be, and your puny, fallen brain will not come because you cannot or will not believe it.

Brethren, we are just spiritual clay. He could make us into anything he wants us to be. He can make the ignorant wise; he can make the stupid brilliant. He can make anything he wants out of anything that we are because he has created us. Not only has he formed the clay that we are, but he has created the clay. Brethren, does the vessel say to the potter I do not like the way you made me? Does the vessel say to the potter I do not like your purposes that you have designed for me? The living God does not even respond to you, brethren. He just pounds away, spins you on his wheel until you start to look like and sound like and walk like and talk like and act like the image of you that he had in your mind before you ever looked anything like it.

“Therefore as I live, saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, Surely Moab shall be as Sodom.”

This Hebrew word translated “surely,” we are going to translate it “nevertheless,” and you will see why as we get into the Alternate Translation. “Moab,” remember, is the first generation of the carnal mind. We are calling him “Satan” for clarity’s sake. “Shall be” simply means “shall be.” The word “Sodom” is Strong's 5467, and it means “burning,” and Sodom is a city that was built on bituminous soil. That means soil which is highly inflammable because of certain natural deposits underneath the earth, highly inflammable.

And I suggest to you that our carnal minds are highly inflammable. We are made out of garbage, you see, and all the Lord has to do is strike a match and drop it, and our minds are going to burn up. But the Ch- -- mi- -- Ch- -- the mind of Christ is made out of what, anybody? Gold. You put gold into the fire, and all it does is purify it. All it does is smelt out all the impurities. But the carnal mind is wood, highly inflammable, and when the carnal mind, which is wood, comes in contact with the mind of Christ, which is highly heated gold, if you want to look at it that way, the wood shall incinerate.

“And the children of Ammon shall be as Gomorrah.”

I remind you that “the children of Ammon” is speaking about the carnal minds of the individual human beings. “Gomorrah” is Strong's 6017, is one of the four cities sunk into the Dead Sea. Brethren, the Dead Sea is something awesome to see. It is a sea that has almost no water in it at all; it is all salt.

Now you may remember -- and I know that you had a question on this, if you remember your question. You may remember that the judgment -- well, first of all, let me remind you that Satan is typified by the ocean, by the salt sea, and that which makes him salty is that salt is dissolved in the waters of his existence, and salt is a type of -- well, s- -- it is a type of spirit. Jesus i- -- Jesus said, if your salt has lost its savor, what good is it? If you put it on your food and it does not make your food salty, what good is it? Salt, brethren, is a preservative. In the time that the Bible was written, salt was used as a preservative, so if you salt your fish or your meat and it does not preserve your meat, what good is the salt? Your spirit, brethren, is supposed to be preserving your soul and your body. So the salt sea is a type of a sea in which the water has been evaporated. We had two Scriptures, I think, in the last message where the Lord promises to dry up the sea. I suggest to you this is Satan’s unconscious mind that is going to be dried up. How I stuff Lord going to dry it up, somebody?

            He is going to boil it.

He is going to boil the sea. He is going to distill that seawater. He is going to separate the water from the salt, and Satan is going to evaporate, and he is going to come into a condition where he will be swallowed up by the Spirit of Christ, and the salt of the life of the human spirit will remain. But for that transitional season when the seawater is boiled off, the salt will be dead because the human spirit by herself can do nothing. She must be joined to the Spirit of Jehovah and bear that Christ child for her to come into that which she is ordained to be. So the Dead Sea or the dead salt, salt that is not joined to Christ, is still dead; it is salt that has lost its savor. So we see here that Gomorrah, excuse me, is one of the four cities that has been turned into salt. Satan has been boiled off, but she is still not married to Christ. Glory to God.

So we see here that the Scripture is saying that the second generation of the carnal mind -- OK, that is the carnal mind in the individual human beings -- shall be as the Dead Sea or shall be made salt. Also we could say this prophecy is saying your unconscious mind is going to be boiled until he separates from Eve, the human spirit. Excuse me a minute. And does anybody know a Scripture that is going to typify that? The salt is being separated from the sea; the spirit is being separated from the --

            [?The marrow?] [INAUDIBLE]

No, from the soul. The spirit is being se- -- well, you are close.

            [CROSSTALK]

OK. You are close. The spirit is being separated from the soul. Water is typified -- typifies the soul realm, OK. Water is being -- the salt -- s- -- I am sorry. The spirit is being separated from the soul. And what -- why? Why is the spirit being separated from the soul and the joints from the marrow? The whole purpose of the breaking down of the carnal mind into its component parts, anybody, is to free up the --

            [CROSSTALK]

-- the human spirit so that she might join with her true husband, the Lord Jesus Christ, and bear his Son, the Son of God, Christ Jesus in you, the hope of glory. Your own personal savior, when he grows out of your human spirit, gives life to your soul and preserves your body. Before we can be saved, brethren, our human spirit must be set free from her captivity to c- -- to Satan and the carnal mind, and this process of setting free our human spirit is called the --

            [INAUDIBLE]

Well, it is called the tribulation. It is a warfare. Christ is waging war against the carnal mind and Satan, who is holding the human spirit captive. The only problem is that the carnal mind and Satan are growing in our soul, so when Christ bombs the carnal mind, we feel it. Batten down the hatches, brethren; you will not die, just your carnal mind.

Alternate Translation, the first quarter of Zephaniah 2:9, “Therefore, says Jehovah, I, the living God of the armies of Israel, shall nevertheless boil their unconscious mind and turn their conscious carnal minds into dead salt.”

My goodness, that sounds terrible. Can you imagine hearing that and not having a knowledge of the backup? No wonder Jehovah has such bad press. Humanity thinks he is a monster, but that is how the carnal mind sees him. But what Jehovah promises to do, the boiling of our carnal minds and the turning of our s- -- human spirit into salt, is that which is necessary to save our life.

It is like somebody who knows nothing whatsoever about modern medicine going into an operating room in a modern hospital and seeing what they do to those people lying on that people, with all the tubes sticking in them and the scalpel and making an incision right down the middle or even -- do you know that they use a drill for brain surgery? They actually use a drill into the -- to cut into the skull. Can you imagine knowing nothing about modern medicine or modern surgery and seeing doctors do this and all the gloves covered with blood and sewing people up? Surely, your reaction would be this is hideous.

Well, we carnal human beings do not understand the ways of God, and therefore when he tells us that he is boiling our sea and turning our spirit to dead salt, we are absolutely horrified and terrified, and then we run from him. What you do not know is he can run faster than you can. If you think you have escaped, you are mistaken; it just was not your time.

Matthew 5:13 says, “Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.” That foot of men is speaking about the carnal mind.

Continuing with the second quarter of Zephaniah 2:9, “Even the breeding of nettles, and saltpits, and a perpetual desolation: the residue of my people shall spoil them, and the remnant of my people shall possess them.”

“Nettles,” Strong's 2738, so called from its burning; that is “to singe,” a burning sensation. We are talking about spiritual burning here. The Hebrew word translated “breeding,” the King James too translates it “possession,” Strong's 4476, “a place occupied by nettles,” and the nettles is an herb covered with stinging hairs, so we see that nettles is an herb that stings or burns, and the word “breeding” is talking about a place that is occupied by these stinging hairs.

Now hair typifies spirit, so I suggest to you the phrase “stinging hairs” is speaking about hurtful spirits, and the hurtful spirits occupy this dead soul. The human spirits of men are hurtful, stinging spirits. It is the human spirit of man in her fallen condition of union with the carnal mind that is engaged in every abominable spiritual activity known as witchcraft and all of the many expressions of witchcraft. That is what the stinging hurtful spirit means: the human spirit joined with Satan and the carnal mind, working her witchcraft, burning her spiritual burning. And you may recall from a prior message that the hot fire is God. The flames of fire signifies God, that the burning of the satanic realm is signified by ice. Ice burns; regular ice burns; dry ice burns. Hell is cold; death is cold. Hell is as far away from the sun as you can get; there is no light; it is dark; it is cold; it is dingy; it is death; and it is signified by ice. The flaming fire is the fire of God. Our God is a consuming fire.

So “even the breeding of nettles,” speaking about the fallen spirit of man joined to Satan and the dead soul that she is dwelling in. And the “saltpits;” “salt” means “salt,” and “pits” means 953, and this word can be translated “a prison” or “a sepulcher,” which is a grave that is above the surface, a house above the surface. So we see that the carnal minds shall be prison houses, and the stinging spirits occupy the dead soul. I am sorry, I got ahead of myself. The stinging spirits that are occupying the dead soul are the fallen human spirits. And the words “perpetual desolation;” “desolation” is Strong's 8077; it is speaking about “a waste desert,” which is the wilderness, the dead soul, and the word “perpetual” means “continual” or “all the days of life.” Now I am going to translate that word “perpetual” as “until the end of the age.”

This is something that many students of the Scriptures stumble over. The Scripture says forever. This word “perpetual,” it means “forever.” Brethren, forever is only as long as the object exists. If I tell you that I will love you forever and you die, it -- you are not -- you do not love a dead person. You may love their memory, but you cannot love a dead person. If I tell you that I will wash your socks forever and your socks disintegrate on the 100th washing, I cannot wash your socks anymore, so forever is only so long as it is possible to -- because the object exists.

So we see the Scripture speaking about a waste desert, a dead soul, a perpetual dead soul. For so long as the dead soul exists, what is going to happen to the dead soul? What is happening to the dead soul? She is receiving life. If that spirit which raised Christ from the dead dwells in you, it shall quicken or make alive your mortal body, and we found out -- I am not going to go into the teaching now, but that mortal body is your soul. You have a mortal soul, and you have an immortal soul. You do not have a mortal body and an immortal body. So when Christ is raised from the dead in you, he shall give life to that dead soul, so, you see, the soul can only be dead s- -- the -- can only be a waste desert so long as it is dead. When the mind of Christ is raised in the soul, that dead soul will die to its death and be given life, and then it will not be dead anymore. Everybody OK?

Alternate Translation, the second quarter of Zephaniah 2:9, “Their hurtful spirits shall occupy the soul, and their carnal minds shall be prisons for their spirits and a continual waste desert.” “Their hurtful spirits shall occupy the soul, and” -- sh- -- that should say dead soul, “and their carnal minds shall be prisons for their spirits and a continual waste desert.”

That does not make any sense at all. I had to move all the words around to make the sequence logical. Let me read it you in an amplified form.

“And their carnal minds shall be prison houses for their hurtful spirits, and they shall occupy a dead soul until the end of the age.” “And their carnal minds shall be prison houses for their hurtful spirits, and they shall occupy a dead soul, instead of a living soul, until the end of the age.” And the age ends when that dead soul receives life, and when the dead soul receives life, the new age begins.

Continuing with the third quarter of Zephaniah 2:9, “The residue of my people shall spoil them.”

“Residue,” Strong's 7611; it means “the survivors of a slaughter.” We find this word in the New Testament in the Book of 1 Thessalonians, and some Christians relate this to the theory of the rapture, but I suggest to you that “the residue of my people” is speaking about that part of our spiritual being which remains after Christ has brought tribulation to our soul. And what part of our spiritual life will remain after Christ has brought tribulation to our soul? What is the only thing that will survive?

            [?The spirit?].

The human spirit is the only thing that will survive the slaughter, and that is what it is called, “survivors after a slaughter.” And we see in Ezekiel 9, six men walking with their slaughter weapons in their hand, and every man shall offer his sacrifice salted with fire. Your sacrifice is your carnal mind. Your own carnal mind must be sacrificed and preserved by the fire of Christ that is arising out of your liberated human spirit. You have the honor of killing your own carnal mind. You will have a little help along the way, but you have to do the final deed.

The word “people” is Strong's 5971; it is used mostly of Israel. And “the residue of my people,” the human spirits of my people that remain after Christ finishes crushing us in the wine press, “shall spoil them.” “Shall spoil,” Strong's 962, means “to pull to pieces,” “to bring to decay.”

And what comes to my mind when I read that word is the breaking up of the carnal mind, the separation of the soul from the spirit and the joints from the marrow, the separation of the soul from the spirit. Brethren, your carnal mind is both soul and spirit. The soul part is the mind, the offspring, the carnal mind; and that which is spirit is your human spirit, and she is joined to Satan. So Satan and Eve is the spirit, and your carnal mind is the soul. Those two elements are separated. Then the joints are separated from the marrow. Eve is the marrow. She is separated from Satan, spirit from spirit, so that the human spirit is freed up so that she can marry Christ.

Alternate Translation, the third quarter of Zephaniah 2:9, “The human spirits of the men of Israel shall pull their carnal minds into pieces.” They are going to break up their carnal minds and destroy them.

How many times have you read in the Old Testament Jehovah saying I shall break you to pieces? I shall beat you into dust? He sounds like a raving maniac according to the King James translation, but he is not. What he is saying is I am going to break up that abomination, that ince- -- that product of incest, that wicked carnal mind that has caused my people to die, and which, in fact, is the spiritual sexual organ of the carnal mind that is never satisfied. It has to sin and sin and sin and sin, and it sins through you, and every time it sins through you, it kills you. It is a continuous spiritual adultery every second of your life. You are thinking sinful thoughts. No matter how hard you try, you cannot help but do it because your spirit, the spirit of man, is in a forced adultery with the carnal mind. You do not have the power to say no; that is why you need a savior. You cannot say no, just a girl who cannot say no. There was a song like that once, OK.

I remind you that the human spirit alone has no power. For the human spirits of men -- of the men of Israel to pull down their carnal minds -- you see, the Scripture says they are going to pull their carnal mind to pieces. The Scripture does not say anything at all about Christ being formed in the minds of these men. All it says is they are going to pull their carnal mind to pieces, but we know -- this is called amplification. We know that the human spirit -- we know how from other studies that the human spirit has no power. For her to pull her carnal mind to pieces, she must first join with the Lord Jesus Christ and bear the Christ Jesus of Revelation 12. This is what amplification is.

Let me give you another example. If someone were to say to you Jesus was crucified and ascended up into heaven, you know, I hope, that before he could ascend up into heaven, he had to be what?

            [INAUDIBLE]

Well, if he was crucified and he ascended up into heaven, there is a step missing there. What had to happen to him before he ascended up into heaven? What?

            [CROSSTALK]

No. He was crucified.

            [INAUDIBLE] he rose from the dead.

He rose from the dead. He was resurrected, yeah. He rose from the dead. Hallelujah.

            [INAUDIBLE]

Well, that is a tradition. It is really not in the Scripture, and I personally do not believe it is true, OK. I think I have some teaching on that. So that is what amplification is. If the Scripture says he was crucified and he ascended, you know that he had to be resurrected, but for some reason it is not in that Scripture. Well, the Scripture here says that the human s- -- the freed up human spirits of the men of Israel shall pull down their carnal minds or pull them to pieces and destroy them. Well, we know that the human spirit, without union with Christ, is dead. We just read about; she is the salt sea. So, therefore, we can say that Chri- -- the mind of Christ had to be formed in these men in -- before they could pull their carnal mind to pieces.

“And the sons of God shall destroy their carnal minds by pulling them to pieces.”

They shall separate the spirit from soul and the joints from the marrow. “Because the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” That is Hebrews 4:12.

A witness to this is Strong -- is Revelation 19:17, 18 and 21, the pulling the -- to the pieces of their carnal mind. “And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; that ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.”

“And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

And I suggest to you that the fouls or the buzzards pull pieces of flesh off of the carcass, and that is signifying the pulling apart of the carnal minds of men, and the Scripture says it is a great celebration. Now if you do not have a vision of this, you think those verses that I just read you in the Book of Revelation are obnoxious, but it is a feast, and it is a celebration, and it is glorious to have the enemy of your soul torn to pieces, that you might join with your true husband, Christ, and forever be with the Lord.

Continuing with the fourth quarter of Zephaniah 2:9, “And the remnant of my people shall possess them.”

“Remnant,” Strong's 3499; it means “that which is hanging over,” and I suggest to you that the Hebrew word translated “remnant” can be translated “that which is left over after the carnal mind is pulled to pieces.”

So we see that the sons of God are pulling their carnal minds -- the carnal minds of the nations to pieces as well as their own carnal minds. Now what does that mean? Brethren, the sons of God in this hour are judging -- or in this hour we are not perfect. We are called the two witness company. We are judging our own carnal minds, ripping it to pieces, and we are also going after the carnal minds of the men that we are sent to. Who are they? People who are not yet trained enough or who are not yet strong enough to pull their own carnal mind to pieces, and we are there like a ramrod, just pounding them, pounding them, pounding them. Pride, rebellion, sin. You are in denial. Wake up. Snap out of it. Look at your sins. The hour of the resurrection of the dead is at hand. Wake up, wake up. Who does she think she is? Son of God, wake up, wake up, wake up. It is the Christ telling you to wake up.

“And the remnant of my people shall possess them.” The word “people” here is a different Hebrew word than earlier, and this Hebrew word is used for the nations at large. We see one Hebrew word used to signify Israel and another Hebrew word, Strong's 1471, used to signify the nations at large. “And the remnant of my people shall possess them.” “Shall possess;” the interlinear says “inherit;” it is Strong's 5157; it means “to receive an inheritance.” And the word “them” is not in the Hebrew; we shall not use that word.

Alternate Translation, the fourth quarter of Zephaniah 2:9, “And the nations shall inherit.”

So we see Israel inheriting, and the nations also shall inherit; the church, brethren, as well as the heathen. All you Pharisees that think only the church is going in or going up or whatever you believe in, that is not what the Scripture says, and I am sorry if you think it is unfair that you have been paying your tithes for 40 years and laboring at whatever you are laboring at for 40 years and the Lord is bringing in people off the street, and after six months they are going to inherit the promise. I am sorry if you think that is unfair, but I have got a flash for you: It is tough if you do not like it, and you better get your act together, or you will be left behind, and they will be taken in.

Amplified translation, the fourth quarter of Zephaniah 2:9, “And the sons of God shall judge the nations, and they shall inherit Christ too.” The sons of God shall judge the nations.

Alternate Translation, the whole of Zephaniah 2:9, “Therefore, says Jehovah, I, the living God of the armies of Israel, shall boil their unconscious mind and turn their conscious carnal minds into dead salt. And their carnal mind shall be prison houses for their hurtful spirits, and they shall occupy a dead soul unto the end of the age.”

Now check this out, right in the middle of the same verse. You heard the judgment pronounced, now listen, Israel lost the mind of Christ because of sin. Now this is spiritual Israel, lost the mind of Christ because of sin, OK, and they were -- replaced it with the carnal mind, and the Lord says this is the judgment that is on them for a season. I am going to put judgment on them, tribulation; I am going to boil their unconscious mind and turn their carnal minds into dead salt. And their carnal minds shall be prison houses for their hurtful spirits, and they are going to occupy a dead soul until the end of the age, but that is all going to come to an end. It is not forever.

“Nevertheless, the sons of God shall destroy their carnal minds by pulling them to pieces, and they shall judge the nations, and the nations shall inherit Christ,” deliverance, judgment and then deliverance.

Continuing with Zephaniah 2:10, “This shall they have for their pride, because they have reproached and magnified themselves against the people of the Lord of hosts.” Here we have Jehovah the murderer again. I suggest to you that this is not -- this translation is not the intent of our God.

Now the King James says, “This shall they have.” The word -- the verb “have” is not in the Hebrew. The only thing that is in the Hebrew is the word “this.” The interlinear says “this to them,” no verb, “this to them.” I suggest to you that the words “this to them” should be connected to the verb “inherit” in the prior verse; that is verse 9. “And the remnant of my people shall possess or inherit them.” That word “them” is not in the Hebrew. “And the remnant of my people shall possess,” and I suggest to you the word “this” in verse 10 should be there. “And the remnant of my people shall possess them.” That word “them” can also be translated “themselves.” This -- people shall possess unto themselves. They shall receive unto themselves. What are they going to receive or inherit unto themselves?

This shall they have for their pride.” The Hebrew word translated “for” is translated “instead of” in the interlinear; it is Strong's 8478, and it means “the lower part.” The word “there” is not in the Hebrew. The word “pride” is Strong's 1347, and I declare to you that the primary translation of that word is anything but pride. Gesenius says it can be translated “majesty,” “glory;” this word is used to describe the glory of God. Nevertheless, at the very end of the listings, we see that it can be translated “pride,” but that is the very last suggestion that Gesenius makes. So we are talking about the lower part of glory.

You may recall that glory is speaking about God in the soul realm, and I suggest to you here that the word “glory” is signifying the creation under the control of Christ, the creation in the soul realm under the authority and control of Christ. You may recall the teaching from Daniel 8 that the creation is a two-horned creation, a greater horn and a lesser horn, or we might say a upper horn and a lower horn. Christ ha- -- and horn typifying spiritual authority. Christ is the upper or the higher authority. And who is the lower authority?

            [?Satan?].

Satan is the lower authority, or might we say the lower part. So what have we here? The lower part of glory, the lower horn of the creation under the authority of Christ. Can you hear it? And the lower horn of the creation under the authority of [UNINTELLIGIBLE] Satan, and Satan shall inherit unto themselves. Satan has an inheritance? Yes, Satan has an inheritance; her inheritance is Christ. She must marry him again. She is the negative pole of this creation, which has gone -- separated out and gone haywire, and she must be joined back unto Christ. And the way the Scripture describes it is that she is inheriting him because, despite the fact that she hates him, that she is in rebellion, that she is trying to kill him, her rejoining unto Christ is her salv- -- is her -- I do not want to say salvation; some Pharisee will get me on that. Satan is not being saved, but she is being rejoined to the creation and being forced into the position that she was designed for. And the way it -- this event is described i- -- by the prophet Zephaniah is that she is going to inherit Christ.

Now, brethren, who is Satan? Fallen man is Satan. We are expressions of Satan. Did Jesus not tell the Pharisees your daddy is the devil? We have talked a lot about this. We are Satan’s seed; he is our dad: That is why we need to be adopted because God is not our Father, and we are not in God’s image. We are in the image of our daddy; that is why we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Why would God be adopting us if we were in the image of the Lord? So Satan is the mind of fallen man, so we could say that Satan -- oh, I am sorry, that fallen man is inheriting Christ, and he is inheriting us. We are inheriting each other. We were intended to be, excuse me, a single creation under the glorious authority of Christ.

So what is the Scripture saying? I see your problem. We started out with verse 8, with Jehovah saying I have noticed that the mind in my people is not Christ. I see you, and I have pronounced judgment upon you: I am going to boil your sea and rip your carnal mind to pieces, and I am going to do all of this so that you might inherit Christ, that you might be raised from the dead and live in my sight. See, the carnal mind is waiting for something horrible to happen to Satan and these people: burning torment, brimstone, fire, torture. God says I am going to rehabilitate you.

Brethren, look at yourself in the glass. We had a question earlier this evening about whether or not Satan is running rampant in the world, and the answer was, yes, the manifestation of the righteousness of God in the flesh has exposed us all for what we are. Look at the condition of your mind, that you should even think for one second that God’s answer to our problem is punishing torture without rehabilitation. God’s answer to our problem is rehabilitation. That rehabilitative therapy, however, is painful. Brethren, if, God forbid, you are in a car accident and you use the loose -- you lose the use of a limb, physical therapy is painful, but in many instances the victim recovers the use of their limb. Brethren, whatever pain you are feeling, it is physical therapy that is necessary that you might recover your right mind because you are not in your right mind; you are in your left mind. You are spiritually insane; you are sick; you are perverted; you are crippled; you are vile; and you need treatment, and the treatment is painful.

So do you hear this? The King James translators translates the first phrase of verse 10 of Zephaniah 2, “This they shall have for their pride;” let them have it. But we are translating it, “And the lower horn of glory shall inherit Christ,” and everyone with Satan’s mind says false doctrine. Get her out of the pulpit. A woman is not allowed to teach. Look at the junk that comes out of her mind when you put a woman up there. I am going to send you to the local, carnal preacher to get you deprogrammed. Someone called me up and told me that.

So let me just remind you now that this glorious creation that God made was both -- and is both positive and negative, and the positive and the negative were bound together under the authority of Christ. But the negative element of the creation, of her own will and accord and in direct rebellion against the command of God, separated from the positive charge and entered upon an independent existence, a t- -- an existence independent of the Lord’s Christ. And the result of this action was that the creation died, and the result of that rebellion which resulted in that death is what we are today, and we are still -- except those of us who are moving towards Christ, the creation is still separated from Christ. The positive and negative charge are still separated, and we are still in rebellion, even those of uth- -- of us who have Christ being formed in us. We all have all kinds of sin in here with the Christ.

“And the lower horn of glory,” or the lower horn of God’s glorious creation, “shall inherit Christ.”

“Because they have reproached and magnified themselves against the people of the Lord of hosts,” and the church says you hurt me, and God is going to get you because I read Zephaniah. You are very deceived if you believe that, Lord -- if you believe that, brethren. God loves your enemy as much as he loves you. He hates the sin that they did against you. He hates their sin, but he hates your sin also, and you are not perfect yet, and he hates sin wherever it is appearing. But he loves you and he loves your enemy as much as he loves you, and he hates sin in both of you. And God, he is a righteous God, so if you are saying, Lord, get that guy, get that guy, he just may do it, but he will also go get you too, and he will get both of you in your sin.

“Because they have reproached.” We are translating the word “because,” “when” or “at that time.” “Reproached,” Strong's 2778, “to count one’s li-” -- we had this in verse 8; it is the same word, “to count one’s life as little,” “to pluck up.” And “magnified” we had in verse 8 also; it means “to twist or bind threads together.” “Against,” “because they have reproached and magnified themselves against.” Gesenius says that the Hebrew word translated “against” can also be used to signify adherence to a rule or standard which is followed.

The Hebrew -- now this is really important because it is going to change the whole meaning of the phrase. Gesenius Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon says that the Hebrew word “’al,” which is translated “against,” can also be used to signify adherence or compliance to or with a rule or standard which is followed, and I suggest to you that verse 10 is saying that the gentiles are to become as great as Israel. They are to become -- they are to receive the mind of Christ, just as Israel did, when they pluck up their carnal minds and weave their human spirits together with Christ after the standard or after the example set by the sons of God. And the word “people” is speaking about Israel, “the people of the Lord of hosts.”

Alternate Translation, the second half of Zephaniah 2:10, “When the gentiles have plucked up their carnal minds and woven their human spirits together with the mind of Christ just like the sons of God did.”

So what the Scripture is saying, the gentiles are going to see Christ manifesting in the sons of God, and they are going to be taught of the sons of God, and they are going to judge their own carnal minds just like the sons of God did, and they are going to inherit the same promise that the sons of God inherited; they are going to inherit Christ. But the sons of God will go first, and we shall be an example unto the world. You see, right now, brethren, it is very hard for men to believe this message. Most people could not be sitting this long and hearing it; they would run out of here screaming; they cannot bear it. Jesus said I have much to tell you, but you cannot bear it yet.

So there is a very small group that have the faith to believe, and this faith that believes is going to manifest. And when it happens to us, the living expression of the promise of Jehovah shall be visible in a form that the most carnal-minded man can recognize and understand. And when they see us standing in the holiness of Christ because our carnal mind has been slaughtered and they see all the signs that go with it, the inability to die, the miracle-working power, the glory of God flowing through us to do good unto men without strings attached but because God loves men; when they see it with their eyes, they will say I want that. How did you get to be like that? And they will receive instruction, and they will do as the sons of God did, and they too -- who? The balance of humanity, the gentiles, will receive Christ, and they too shall have their souls made alive and their bodies preserved and be resurrected out of this world system, which is Hell and death.

Two categories: One category has the faith without seeing it; and the other category does not have the faith, but when they see it, they will do it too. And the Scripture says when you have been strengthened, strengthen your brother. Now the fallen mind of man -- and with the fallen mind of man, those who are strong enough to get ahead scamper up to the top of the mountain, and then they want to possess the mountain, and the start shooting everybody else that is trying to climb the mountain. That is -- is that not what men do? They want it for themselves, but that is not what Christ does. There is enough for everybody.

Verse 10, “And the lower horn of glory shall inherit Christ when the gentiles have plucked up their carnal minds and woven their human spirits together with the mind of Christ, just like the sons of God did.”

Continuing with verse 11; this is the last verse. Hang in there with me. “The Lord will be terrible unto them: for he will famish all the gods of the earth; and men shall worship him, every one from his place, even all the isles of the heathen.”

“The Lord” is “Jehovah.” The word “terrible” means “frightening;” it is Strong's 3372. “Famish,” Strong's 7329, means “to spread out,” “to make thin and lean.” Gesenius says here is the idea of scraping away, and I suggest to you that the intention of the Scripture is the scraping away is -- the carnal mind is being scraped away from Satan; it is that separating of the soul from the spirit.

“The Lord shall be terrible unto them: for he will famish all the gods of the earth.” The Hebrew word translated “for” we are translating “at that time.” The word “the gods,” it is Strong's 430, and it is a singular word in the Hebrew. The King James made it plural. It is a singular word, “the god of the earth.” Who is the god of the earth? Satan; he is the prince of the power of the air. And “the earth” is “the soul” or “the soul realm.”

Alternate Translation, first half of Zephaniah 2:11, “Jehovah will make them afraid of him when he separates Satan from the carnal mind.”

Remember, Satan is the unconscious mind of fallen man. This verse is speaking about the judgment of the carnal mind. Brethren, when the Lord Jesus Christ judges your carnal mind, you will be afraid. I want to tell you, you will be afraid of the Lord Jesus Christ. Those of you who have no fear of God because you think that he does not exist, because you think judgment is a myth, because he is been winking at your sin all this time and he is been winking at the sin of men everywhere, you have no fear of the Lord Jesus Christ. When your time comes for judgment, you shall fear the Lord. You will acknowledge him, and you will respect him.

Amplified translation, the first half of Zephaniah 2:11, “Jehovah will make them afraid of him when he separates their unconscious and conscious mind.”

Continuing with the second of Jeph- -- Zephaniah 2:11, “And men shall worship him, every one from his place, even all the isles of the heathen.”

“To worship,” Strong's 7812, means “to prostrate oneself” or “to bow down very low.” “Every one;” the word “every” is not in the Hebrew. The Hebrew word means “one;” it is 376, and it does not even mean “one;” it means “male offspring” or “male mind,” one male mind.

I suggest to you that the soul realm and carnal men shall bow to the Christ mind. Brethren, when Christ arises in your mind, your carnal mind must prostrate itself. John the Baptist said I must decrease, that Christ should increase. Only one mind could be on top. One must be on top, and one must be on the bottom, brethren. There is no such thing as two equal minds. One is greater; one is stronger. One is male; one is female. One is on top, and one is on the bottom, and it has got to be Christ on the top because it cannot be any other way.

So when you have a carnal mind that has been ruling through you for years and, all of a sudden, Christ begins to appear in your mind, he is badgering and battering and punching your carnal mind down under his feet. Why? Because when he said pretty please, she said no. That is why you have confusion; that is why you have pain; that is why it looks like a cyclone hit your life. Do not be deceived because of the circumstances. Do not be ignorant, brethren. Do not say it is luck; do not say it is coincidence; do not you say you just got a -- some crazy thing is happening in your life. Christ has hit your life like a tornado, and what is happening to you is designed to break your pride and to break your rebellion and break your arrogance and break your ignorance and make you teachable and humble so that the teacher that he sends to you can help you to transfer from death unto life. You cannot learn if you will not sit in your seat, so the Lord is going to whip you until you sit in your seat.

“And men shall worship him.” The word “men” is not in the Hebrew. “And shall worship him,” the male offspring, and the male offspring, Christ, shall be worshipped “from his place.” “From his place” means -- it just means “habitation.” It means in the individual mind; Christ shall be worshipped in the individual mind. “All the isles” shall worship Christ in the individual mind. “All” means “the whole.” And “the isles” is Strong's 339; it means “inhabited land.”

Brethren, we are all islands. This soul realm is the exact opposite of the spiritual realm. In the soul realm, you see a gigantic sea with a couple of small islands on it, but, spiritually speaking, we see human beings, and there is a drop of the sea in each of us. It is backwards. There is a drop of the sea in each of us. We are the islands, and our carnal mind shall bow to the Christ. They are going to go down under him when he appears. The isles of the gentiles; we are the islands of the gentiles until Christ becomes our mind, and then we become the isles of Christ.

Alternate Translation, the second half of Zephaniah 2:11, “And Christ shall be worshipped in his own house,” or his own habitation, “by all of the souls of the heathen.”

Now we are the heathen, brethren. We are the offspring Satan, and we are the heathen. There is one heathen; his name is Satan. He is appearing in a many-membered company, which we are.

Hebrews 3:6 says, “But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.”

So we see that we are Christ’s house, but before he began to be formed in us, we were the house of all the, or the isles of, the gentiles.

Alternate Translation, the whole of Zephaniah 2:11, “Jehovah will make them afraid of him,” or make them to respect him, “when he separates their unconscious and conscious mind, and Christ shall be worshipped in his own house by all of the souls of the heathen.”

Amplified translation, Zephaniah 2:11, “Jehovah will make them afraid of him,” or cause the people or force the people to respect him, “when he separates their soul from their spirit, and Christ shall be worshipped in his own house by all of the souls of the heathen.”

And, of course, this separation is the judgment, which is and shall be painful, shall result in our respecting Jehovah.

Recap, Zephaniah 2:8-11, “I have noticed that Satan has formed her carnal mind in my people and that their carnal minds have killed Christ and woven themselves together with their human spirits. Therefore, says Jehovah, I, the living God of the armies of Israel, shall boil their unconscious mind and turn their conscious carnal minds into dead salt. And their carnal mind shall be prison houses for their hurtful spirits, and they shall occupy a dead soul until the end of the age.”

“Nevertheless, the sons of God shall destroy their carnal minds by pulling them to pieces, and they shall judge the nations. And the lower horn of glory shall inherit Christ when the gentiles have plucked up their carnal minds and woven their human spirits together with the mind of Christ, just like the sons of God. Jehovah will make them afraid of him when he separates their soul from their spirit, and Christ shall be worshipped in his own house by all of the souls of the heathen.”

Glory to God. Any questions tonight?

            Is this the same Jehovah that the Jehovah Witness go around and talk about?

Oh, that is a good question.

            [CROSSTALK]

Yes, it is the same Jehovah.

            [INAUDIBLE] big difference in doctrine [INAUDIBLE] Christian [INAUDIBLE]

OK. Jehovah -- see, God has many names. When -- God does many things, and each -- in each major area of his function, he takes a different name so that we can easily recognize what he is doing, OK. When he is doing one thing, he calls himself Jehovah. When he is doing something else, he calls himself the Lord Jesus Christ. When he is doing a third thing, he calls himself Christ Jesus. And when we learn what these different names mean, it makes it very easy for us, when we hear the name, the recognize what he is doing because his message is complicated.

            So what is a Jehovah -- when a Jehovah Witness walks and they say, I do not know, I am a Jehovah Witness, what are they saying?

OK.

            I [?is a?] -- I am --

Listen, OK. Jehovah is the name that God takes before the provision was made to restore man to righteousness. Jehovah is God in a form which cannot restore man, which cannot raise man from the dead, OK. God in the form of the Lord Jesus Christ is God in the form which can raise man from the dead, so that is the only difference between Jehovah and the Lord Jesus Christ. It is the same God, OK, manif- -- [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- manifesting as the Lord Jesus Christ in a form which can -- he has literally put himself in a form that is going to enter into the minds of men and raise them from the dead. So to worship to Jehovah is -- yes, it is to worship the God of the Bible, but he is in a form that cannot raise you from the dead.

            That is idolatry. [CROSSTALK]

No, it is not idolatry.

            How many gods are there?

There is only one God, but you have to -- if you want the beliefs of the Lord, you have to take them according to his plan. You cannot make your own plan; you cannot reject his plan and make your own plan. For example, there are certain foods that are in [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- are not -- OK, dry beans, for example. Beans are food that are capable -- do not make me laugh. Beans are food that are capable of nourishing your body, but you cannot eat them in the dried form. The law of nature says, if you are starving and all you have is beans, you have to soak those beans in water and cook them for a long time to make them edible. Well, if fallen man wants to be raised from the dead, he must worship or become attached to Jehovah in the form that Jehovah has declared will raise them from the dead, and that form is the Lord Jesus Christ. So Jehovah's Witness, they read the Bible; they desire holiness; they are worshipping the God of the Bible. But they are not following his instructions to be raised from the dead. Did I answer your --

            The instructions are right here in the Bible?

Yes, the instructions are in the Bible.

            So then what does it mean -- all this studying that they do, what -- why are they overlooking it? Why --

Bec- --

            -- do you sit up here on Piedmont Drive and find it and they -- [?there are?] people out here studying it, but they [?overlook it?].

Because they are not studying the word of God.

            What are -- they are just [CROSSTALK]

They are studying another man’s understanding of the word of God. Some man sat down --

            [CROSSTALK]

-- and he is -- they have got a lot of truth. I think Jehovah's Witness have a lot of truth, but this major, they are in error, but Jehovah's Witness do not have that personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ whereby what they study becomes a part of them. They are parrots of other people’s doctrine. And even what I teach here, I believe it is the anointed word of God; I believe the doctrine coming forth here is able to raise up -- to cause Christ to be born in the hearts of a man and ultimately save your soul, but that will not happen to you if you just receive this doctrine in your intellect.

This teaching and this preaching must be a spiritual experience for you. Jesus said my words are spirit and my words are life; that means, if in fact it is Christ in me preaching, every word that I speak to you is vibrating forth from my mouth and joining with your soul. And somewhere along the line, there is going to be a connection, and Christ is going to start growing in you. It is like scattering seeds in a garden; something is going to start to grow. With the Jehovah's Witness, it is not -- the preaching is not coming forth from Christ. They are studying another man’s doctrine. It is dead; it is a dead doctrine. These words are spirit, and they are life, and therefore the life that is in me that is coming out of my mouth can jump on you and make your spirit alive.

            They believe in God [INAUDIBLE]

They believe in God. It is more than believing.

            I know.

It has to get inside of you.

            [CROSSTALK]

Yeah. So, pretty much, that is what we are saying. What they -- they are well-meaning, and they are moral, and they have a lot of good things, but the life of God is not being reproduced in them. So they will receive blessings in this lifetime because they will reap the goodness that they sowed, but there is no eternal life, neither is there deliverance from sin. There is no breaking of curses or healing of the body or deliverance from demons. They do not partake of the benefits of the life of God. It is a dry, dead gospel, if you can hear it. The very most it could do for them is result in a moral life, which will produce whatever good fruit morality produces, no eternal life. OK. Anybody else?

[AUDIO CUTS OUT] -- about Jesus going down to Hell after the crucifixion. That is a tradition of men that I happen to disagree with. I do not believe the Scripture bears it out, and if you are interested, I may have a tape on it. I am not sure. But when I went into it in the Greek, I came to the conclusion that it did not mean that, especially since we teach here that this is Hell. This is Hell right here.

            What is your -- all right, what is your conception of the New Testament then, in comparison to the Old Testament? Why did Christ come and die on the cross? Why did God send his Son? I thought he sent his Son for redemption, for our changed life, to exchange our sinfulness, our old Adam, for the new Adam --

Well, he --

            -- [?with?] righteousness.

Well, he did. That is -- I do believe that. I believe exactly that.

            So then do you believe that Jesus came in the flesh?

J- -- Christ came in the flesh --

            Yeah.

-- of the man Jesus, yes.

            Yeah. Do you believe in the trinity?

No. I do not believe in the trinity. I do not believe the Scripture teaches the trinity.

            Then you do not believe in the concept of the New Testament.

I beg your pardon?

            You do not believe in the concept of the New Testament then.

Well, I do not know what that means.

            -- because the New Testament is the salvation message of Jesus Christ and his crucified --

Well, I do believe that.

            -- which is a paradox. Yeah, but then the trinity is -- the only way we reach God is through Jesus, so God sent his Son because of our lost state --

Right.

            -- to be God man.

Right.

            And as a result, it is just by faith, receiving it, you know, and God went through the -- you know, the realm of -- Jesus went through the realm of, you know, returning to the Father. Still, it is just by faith, as we receive him in our heart, that we become, you know, a term I say, born again. You know, born again Christian, born again. What would you say about that born again state that --

Yeah.

            [CROSSTALK]

Well, it is more than by faith; it is an actual spiritual experience that you have to go through. The salvation is through the conversion of your mind. Your mind has to be converted from carnal to Christ, and it is by faith that we experience this, but it has to happen to you.

            It is a personal relationship.

It is a personal relationship, but to have a personal relationship, he must be growing inside of you.

            But then why did Christ die on the cross? I thought he died on the cross because we could not do it of our own. We have no righteousness in our own.

Right.

            It is the old Adam.

That is true.

            So he exchanged it for his righteousness, so we are growing in Christ.

Oh, no. I see what you are saying, no. When he died on the cross, he made available t- -- he made himself available to m- -- to humanity in seed form so that his life could be reproduced in us. Without his death and resurrection, we would have no hope of having a personal savior growing inside of us, but this is a bis- -- big misunderstanding in the church. It is not enough that Jesus died on the cross. That -- Jesus must now be inside of your for him to truly be your personal savior and give life to your soul. It has to be laid hold of and appropriated. If we were sitting in a dark room and we did not know enough to turn that light on, we would be in a dark room, but there is a light sitting right there, electricity, a light bulb, and we would be sitting in darkness because we did not know enough to turn the switch. So Jesus is all ready for us to enter into our heart and give us a new lease on life, but he has to get in there --

            But is it not at the --

-- and he has to grow.

            Is it not at the cross? You know, it is at the cross.

No, it is in your heart.

            Yes, it is in the heart. The message is the heart, but it is a -- you know, the tree, the cross. When you think of Genesis 3, in Genesis 3, you know, in the Garden.

Well, Louise, I feel that you are debating with me. You know, if I can answer your questions or if I could teach you, I would be really glad to do it --

            No. I understand what you were saying --

-- but I really do not want to debate with you over it now.

            Yeah, no. I understand what you were saying tonight, you know, very clearly. I understand it, but it is just because of, you know, my own background that I  am asking you this.

Oh, are you asking me a question? Are -- if you are debat- -- if you are asking me, I will try to answer you.

            Oh.

But I feel like you are debating with me.

            OK. I am sorry.

OK. That is all right. So, basically, what I teach here -- and, you know, you are free to disagree if you want to. But what I teach here is that the work on the cross was Jesus Christ being converted into spirit form so that he could pour out upon men’s hearts and reproduce that life in the individual, OK. So Jesus did all that he could do, you know, on that cross, and now we must lay hold of him and follow the instructions of the book and hopefully get him growing in us because, when that Spirit that raised Christ from the dead dwells in you, that is -- excuse me, that is when you are made alive. He has to be dwelling in you; he has to get inside of you. See, if he is inside of me, it is not doing you any good.

            OK. There is one thing I -- you know, I really do not understand. I realize, you know, the spiritual battle we have, but I do not -- I thought that it is Christ in me, and it is the forces of evil that come, you know, against me to get into me. But I thought more, if I receive Christ as savior, I thought Christ is in me. It is like a cup full of water, you know.

Yeah.

            But I can open a door to Satan, but I do not understand --

Yeah.

            [CROSSTALK] deliverance [CROSSTALK]

OK. Well, the thing is that fallen man is already possessed of Satan. We are Satan when Christ comes to us. It is not that we are righteousness and Satan is trying to get inside. We are unrighteousness. We are -- we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and the heart of man is desperately wicked. Who could know it? And there is no good thing in us, so the miracle is that Christ comes to dwell in us, and we are not righteous until we stop sinning. And the sign that we have stopped sinning is that we stop dying and stop aging and stop getting sick. So if we are still aging and getting sick, that means there is still sin in us, which means that Christ Jesus, who is hopefully growing in our soul, has not yet defeated the satanic powers and principalities that were utterly possessing us before he came in.

            Oh, it is mainly, you know, a spiritual battle. I understand that, you know, the body has certain degeneration with age and so forth and inheritance and that stuff. But I was ju- -- I just thinking of myself as being, you know, filled with the Holy Spirit, so I find this, kind of, hard that, you know -- I heard this from someone else, that we are -- I understand we are from the fallen. You know, we are from the fallen state, but then when we, you know, receive Christ into our heart, that personal relationship, and become born again, I thought that then we are in a new state, and then we are fighting. It is a constant fighting with the old nature and the new nature.

Well, I do not see it that way. I do not think that we are in a new state until we are in the new state, and when the Holy Spirit enters into our heart, the warfare begins, at the end of which warfare is the conversion of our heart. But we are all filled with sin, and the battle is not to keep us holy but to make us holy because we were completely possessed of sin when righteousness entered in, and now he has to -- he is fighting each of us as a kingdom, and he is fighting to take over our kingdom, and the sin is in our mind. So we are not there yet. I know that the church world teaches that, but I do not believe the Scripture teaches that. We are all filled with sin; that is why judgment is coming, and it is beginning at the church. Judgment is coming to the church and the elders thereof because we are all filled with sin.

            So then why did Christ come? Why did he die on the cross then?

He died on the cross to make himself into a form that would enable him to dwell in our hearts so that he can fight with the powers and principalities and eventually defeat them, but h- -- the sign that he has defeated them and the sign that we are fully born again is when we stop dying.

            I thought he did defeat it at the cross, and Satan [?was?] defeated. [?Oh, this is what I read?].

He defeated them in the man Jesus of Nazareth, and then that man Jesus of Nazareth could have lived forever, but instead of living forever, he gave up his soul life to be converted into pure spirit form so that we could have the same experience that he had, that we could be found without sin and eventually glorified and converted into pure spirit, as he is.

            So then you are actually beyond the -- this is another age. This is more of a kingdom age than the church age. I am just trying to get this --

Yeah.

            So you are saying we are really in the kingdom age.

Well, we are not in it yet; we are headed for it. It depends. It is -- from individual to individual. [?Right?].

            To be not Christ-like but actually be manifestations of the sons of God.

Right. That is the kingdom age, right, and that is exactly correct. That is the difference between the church age and the kingdom age. The church age finds carnal men or fallen men that are influenced by the Holy Ghost for good, and the kingdom age finds fallen men who have been converted from the inside out, from unrighteous to righteousness. And the sign that they have become righteousness is that they stop dying.

            All right, I have one other thing. How about the patients that I take care of who are possessed? What is the difference of being possessed with Satan and that I am of Satan? I see a big difference in, you know, patients who are actually possessed. I could say I am -- I can be influenced. I can have, you know, an influence, but actual possession. I have seen actual possession, so I cannot say that I am [?from?] Satan.

I see what you are saying. Well, it is just -- it is a matter of degree. I believe that the whole fallen creation is possessed of Satan, but it -- you know, it all depends on what your definition of that word is. He owns us. Maybe that would make it easier for you. God sold us under sin. The Scripture clearly states that we were sold under sin, and we were sold unto Satan, but everything is a matter of degree. Some individuals deba- -- based upon the combination of variables that they are born under, the cur- -- the family line curses plus their life experiences, their physical genetic heritage, their spiritual genetic heritage. A combination of the variables produce different degrees of problems in people’s life.

So what the world says is possessed, which are the patients that you see. That is, like, a worldly term. Possessed, they are like the Gadarene Demoniac, completely taken over. And the new find people that are functioning in this world, but it -- this is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, so there are some vessels that are completely given over to evil and other vessels that are good, not the righteousness of God, but what this world would consider good, if you can hear what I said. And then there is the tree of life, which is the righteousness of God. So it is not that you are possessed as the devil, as would be thought of with mental patients, but it is a question of Satan owning the whole creation. And now, when Jesus Christ was raised from the dead by the Father, he was given the creation back by his Father, and the -- his Father, Jehovah, said I have now given you the deed of ownership. Now you have to get in there and defeat the sitting king -- the sitting queen. She is a queen -- and take the property back, and that is what is going on now.

            OK. The way I look at it, you know, if -- you know, you could say unity or trinity, a triad. I look at it at -- like, the -- I thought that Jesus ascended in the flesh; that is what I was thinking, but that he -- but Jesus became one in spirit with God, and I thought it is three persons in one, as Jesus’ Spirit enters us as the Holy Spirit. You know, it is three in one. That is how I was brought up to believe, anyhow, in the Episcopal --

Yes.

            -- Church [CROSSTALK] [?traditional church?].

Well, I believe that the Spirit of Jesus enters us as the Holy Spirit. I believe that too, but I do believe -- and I do believe that the Holy Spirit is another name for the Father, so the trinity, as it is preached, is really saying the Father and the Son and the Father, and I suggest that there is something wrong with that and that I do not believe that it is a scriptural doctrine.

            Well, how do you -- what is your concept of the Holy Spirit then? What is that?

The Holy Spirit is the glorified Jesus Christ who is in the earth in this hour in the form of seed, and he is pouring out of his Spirit on all flesh hoping to impregnate the hearts of men with his life.

            So you do not believe in the church age concept?

What do you mean by the church age concept?

            You know, of being new creatures in Christ.

Well, we are. That --

            [?So?] we are fighting. We are battling, right. The old nature, all the time, does not leave us. The old Adam does not leave us, but I thought we have become more of, you know, Christ.

Well, what is happening is that the mind of Christ is growing in us, and until the mind of Christ utterly dominates our carnal mind, we are still carnal men influenced by Christ. It is when the mind of Christ defeats the carnal mind that we actually become the new creature.

            Well, actually, I thought, you know, that is why you ha- -- we have to do our own homework in reading the book. That is the only way we are going to -- you know, meditate and contemplate on what it has to say, and that is how we are going to get it inside this fallen nature. You know, we have to -- the word ha- -- you know, as you are doing tonight, the word has to come in us also.

Right. Well --

            And you are [?telling me?] [CROSSTALK]

-- my Bible says by the foolishness of preaching we are saved. You have to sit under the preached word. It is important because Jesus said my words are spirit, and my words are life, so it is important that you sit under --

            Oh, sure.

-- an anointed message, yeah.

            Oh, definitely, I know, but we also have to read because that is going to change our mind -- the mindset. Go over a --

No, it is --

            -- chapter as you did it, and then let us say, if I go back and read di- -- read it myself --

OK. But the bottom line is that we have to get the mind of Christ formed in us, that j- -- reading the word of God with our carnal mind may or may not do it. Much more likely to get -- that mind of Christ has to become engrafted to you. You must receive the engrafted word.

            Do you really believe, in this lifetime, that, you know, we are going to ha- -- we are going to all be -- have s- -- the chosen ones are going to ha- -- be so perfect? I mean, I thought only Christ is perfect.

Well, he is the only perfect one, and when Christ in you completely dominates your carnal mind and makes his incapable of functioning, you shall be perfect because your mind shall be Christ.

            But will it be in this -- you know, in this life?

Yeah, I believe so.

            You believe, yeah.

Yeah.

            Because -- no, I know I am going through a lot of carnal -- you know, I realize how I have to die to my fleshly carnality because that is just giving me problems. And, you know -- but, you know, I have 50 years of --

Yeah.

            -- being taught many different things, but the past 10 years, I have been, you know, changing, or the Lord has been [?changing?].

Yeah.

            Let us put it that way, so I am, kind of, in the middle of nowhere hanging.

Yeah. Well, I think you have --

            [CROSSTALK]

-- an excellent grasp, and if you just, you know, stay open, I know that God will teach you everything that is of him. But I would not worry too much about that trinity doctrine. It does not bother me if you believe in it; I hope it does not bother you if I do not believe in it. I can still be friends with you. I do not think it is all that important. It is -- I answered all your other questions. Yes, I believe in the blood of Jesus.

            OK. And the blood of Jesus is important because --

Yes.

            -- it was his -- you know, like, I had a vision one time. It was his blood spilled out for us because we were a fallen state, you know, of sinners by nature.

Yeah.

            And so do you believe in pleading the blood of Jesus?

I do not know what you mean by that. What do you mean by that?

            Well, pleading the blood of Jesus over someone, do you believe in that?

You mean praying the blood --

            Praying, yeah.

-- of Jesus upon them?

            Praying the blood.

Yeah. I will send the blood of Jesus to them, but --

            And what do you mean by that, the blood of Jesus?

It is spiritual blood; it is his life. The life of the flesh is in the blood. In fallen man, there are -- the life -- if you puncture your veins and the blood flows out, you die. The life of the flesh is in the blood. The life of Jesus is spiritual blood, and it is in Christ. The blood is in Christ. Justification is the engrafting of the word of God to your spirit, and that is the painting of the blood on the doorposts of your soul so that the angel of death shall pass over you.

            But, actually, he did come in the flesh and did die as God man.

But that blood has to get on your door. Just like in the hour of the Passover, you could have taken the lamb in your house and slain the lamb and eaten it, but if you did not paint that blood on your door, the angel of death was not passing over, so that blood has to be painted on the doorposts of the individual man. He has to appropriate the work of Jesus.

            So do you feel it is under the anointing, for example, like tonight, that we are being cleansed of our carnality --

Well --

            -- at this time?

-- you could say that, yeah. Actually, what is happening is that the word of God is engrafting to individual human spirits, and the mind of Christ is being formed. Christ must be formed in you, and as Christ begins to be formed in you, he starts to cleanse you of sin, and sin is in the form of your carnal mind.

            So I know it is less -- like you said, I had said that not too long ago, it is less of me and more of Christ.

Yes.

            It is like the glass of water.

Yeah.

            [?It is?] --

Yeah. So Christ in you is killing your carnal mind through hard times and troubles. I know you do not have any of that, Louise.

            Oh, I went through a pretty crushing experience [CROSSTALK]

I am sure.

            Poor carnality [?did not come out?].

I am just teasing you.

            But --

I know you have --

            -- [?it?] should not have, and then I realized how, you know, the other came out. That --

Right.

            -- fallen nature came out.

Right.

            And --

So it is -- your carnal mind is being pulled in pieces by the Christ in you, so --

            I mean, I thought I was getting so advanced, you know, and then I have a fallout. Then I realize, you know [CROSSTALK]

Well, welcome to the club. The Lord just --

            -- you know --

The Lord --

            -- as solid as I want him to be --

Well, he has to be permanently established for us to have received the promises of -- [?in?] -- the a- -- the experiential promises of the Scripture. He has to be firmly sitting upon our carnal mind to the extent that our carnal mind cannot get out, that every time we have a test and we fall into our carnal mind, the Lord is taking the line and the plummet to us, and we know that we are not in full stature yet, that we are not perfect, and we could still fall out. That means we have not been raised from the dead because every time -- if we have a Christ mind and a carnal mind, every time the carnal mind gets out and causes us to sin, for that brief moment until Christ is raised back up in us, as far as the Father is concerned, Christ has been killed; he has been sacrificed. And the Scripture says Christ raised from the dead dieth no more, so the fact that the carnal mind can get out, I am sorry, and cause us to sin, OK, and, technically, kill Christ, is a sign that he was not fully raised from the dead. Because if he is raised from the dead, he cannot die anymore.

            Well, then that is -- you know, that is not -- you know, then -- what the traditional church is saying because what they are saying is that, you know, once Christ was raised, it is a finished work.

I know what they say.

            So --

It is true. It was a finished work in the man Jesus of Nazareth.

            Yeah. So now he is working in us.

He has to be reproduced in us. It is as if to say you are --

            We do not go any further, you know.

I am sorry?

            It is like saying you do not go any further, you know.

            [INAUDIBLE]

            Yeah.             

            [INAUDIBLE]

No, I do not know what --

            [CROSSTALK]

I do not know what you just meant. What did you mean, Louise?

            No, it is, like -- it is a finished work. There is nothing that we have to do.

No, that is --

            God did it.

It is not true.

            Yeah.

What God did was make the way for us. It is available to us, and now we have to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. We have to purify ourselves. Everyone that has the hope of his appearing in them must purify themself [sic]. There is a spiritual labor, a working of the garden of Christ. We have to study to show ourselves approved. We have to be holy as our Father in heaven is holy.

            I will just say one thing. When the world is knocking us down, you know, you do not want that continual, you know, hammering. I mean, sometimes you cannot get up, you know.

Well, you get up anyways.

            Sometimes, you know, you cry, and -- to a certain degree because the world around us, you know, is very negative sometimes. It is very hard, so we have to die to that old nature in order to see it Christ’s way then.

Yes.

            And that way we are going to -- it is true. I got through this, and I am stronger.

Yes.

            But a lot of things in me had to die, so --

Yes.

            -- they have not erupted yet, but, I mean, you know, I see --

Uh-huh.

            -- how it made me humble.

Amen.

            And it brought me down.

Uh-huh.

            Pride had to go.

Right. And this is the tribulation, and it -- these trials will continue until there is nothing left of you and only Christ remains, and then you shall be fully born again and the beneficiary of every promise in the Scripture. So if you could just see it as a labor, you know, that you have to go through, it wo- -- you would not be discouraged about it.

            Yeah. I -- because it is like, you know, with the world, when you are out there in the world and the punches -- you know, I am feeling like [INAUDIBLE]

12/23/15 Transcribed by VerbalFusion