206 - 1 Part

The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For
Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By
 The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.


Praise the Lord. I do not have any specific message, so I am just going to try and chat with you until I see what the Lord wants us to do. His word can come from any direction. It could come directly to me. It could come through a question. He can give somebody a scripture. If you feel the Lord is speaking through you, please speak up. Thank you Jesus. (Tongues) Glory to God. This happened once in New York that I had no word. We all hung in there, and when it finally came forth, it was one of the most powerful meetings we had had in a month, so do not be discouraged. You do not want to hear from my carnal mind. I tell you that all the time. Let us see what the Lord has to say. Thank you Jesus. (Tongues) Thank you Jesus. Hallelujah.

COMMENT: Romans 1; verses 9 thru 11; For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers; Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you. For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established. KJV

Praise God. The Lord did show me a passage in Isaiah this morning about the judgment which is coming upon Egypt. Egypt is not the great power that she was. At least in measure, some of the prophesies of judgment upon Egypt have come to pass. The Lord has promised to put a big hook in the nose of the dragon in the sea, and pull him up out of the water. We see a people today, and we see a church today that are not lining up unto the Scriptures. We see the promise of the Lord to expose that hidden motive that would cause them to not line up with the Scriptures. 


Yea, saith the Lord, this is even the hour of my appearing, saith God. I shall put a hook in the nose of that wicked dragon, saith God. And I shall raise him up out of the sea, and I shall display him, saith the Lord, for all to see that he will no longer hide, saith God, and his hatred for me will no longer be hidden. And I will expose it to all with eyes to see, and ears to hear, saith the Lord. Yea, even this day I will do this thing. For he that hateth not his mother and his father, loveth not me, saith the Lord. For he who is not for me is against me. As this hour is at hand, saith the Lord, this scripture shall be made visible, saith the Lord. And it shall appear in the lives of men, even this proverb, saith God, the sow has returned unto her vomit.

Praise God. I am just going to pick a scripture and expound on it, and see what God gives me. Let us just start at Romans, Chapter 1. Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God. Let me remind you that the definition of an apostle is one who has the imparted anointing. An apostle is everyone that has Christ being formed in them. So we see that we have apostles of different stages, of different degrees, of different maturity, of different strength. Jesus Christ was an apostle in full stature. The concept of apostle is that you no longer are living for yourself, but it is the very Christ in you that is seeking to dominate your entire life. The more mature you are in Christ, the more you will be living out of that Christ, responding to him spiritually, and not doing anything of your own accord.

Paul said that he is a servant of Jesus Christ, and he was called an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God. I want to declare to you that he was separated from his carnal mind. Sanctification, brethren, I was going to say it has nothing to do with being separated from the things of this world. It does have something to do with being separated from the things of this world, but more so the separation is in your mind. The separation is in your mind. When Christ in you separates from your carnal mind, that is the sanctification which will be reflected in the separation of yourself from the things of this world. If you separate yourself from the things of this world, and Christ is not separated from your carnal mind, you are engaging in a religious work that cannot produce eternal life.

There is only one way into eternal life. There is only one door and Jesus is the door. He is within you. He is the kingdom of God within you. We must step out of our existence, which is in the carnal mind, and enter into the new life, or the new city, which is the new Jerusalem, which dwells within our own heart. That part of us, which is our true reality, spirit that dwells within a fallen soul, and a human body. That spirit, which we are, must migrate out of the carnal mind, and start to penetrate into the mind of Christ, which is within us. This is the fulfillment of the scripture in Revelation 1, which says, And those who have pierced him shall see him. We must pierce him, brethren. There is a twofold penetration happening. First, the Holy Ghost penetrates our heart, and implants himself in it, hopefully joining with our human spirit, and bringing forth Christ.

When that Christ comes forth, that part of us which is still living out of our carnal mind, must penetrate into that mind of Christ. First he penetrates us, and then we penetrate him. This is the weaving together. Think of a needle going into the fabric, in and out of the fabric. This is the weaving together of the mind of Christ and the carnal mind. He penetrates us and then we penetrate him. It is a weaving together. This, as we discussed last Sunday, is the first stage of the resurrection of the dead, and it makes you an apostle. When you have this anointing, it makes you an apostle. Remember that if you are an apostle, you are a sent one. You are not supposed to be doing anything of yourself. Now that is talking about spiritual things. Of course, you know that you take care of your family, and you go to work in the morning, but spiritually speaking, we are not to do anything that our Father has not told us to do.

We are not to say anything that He has not told us to say. We are not to minister to anybody that He has not told us to minister to, and we are not to pronounce judgment or wage spiritual warfare against anyone that He has not told us to do it to. If someone is attacking you, my Bible says, vengeance is mine, saith the Lord. There will come a day in your spiritual development where the Lord will anoint you, and authorize you to execute judgment upon sin, but before you are qualified to do that, you must have demonstrated to the Lord your ability and willingness to execute judgment upon your own carnal mind. There is a qualification to execute judgment upon sin that is appearing in another man. For that qualification, you must have demonstrated to the Father that you have faithfully executed that judgment on your own carnal mind, or you are not qualified to judge another man.

The Scripture says, judge not before the time. Judge not one another lest you be judged. Then Jesus said, I judge no man, but yet if I do judge, I judge righteous judgment. Well, to the carnal mind that sounds like a contradiction. Many carnal minds of men say the Scripture is filled with contradiction. How could God have written the Scripture? This is how the Scripture can be filled with contradiction. Some of its instruction and comments are directed towards the carnal man, and other of its instructions and comments are directed towards the spiritual man. The flesh lusteth against the spirit, and the spirit lusteth against the flesh, and the two shall never have a meeting of the minds. This warfare shall continue until the spirit overcomes the flesh. So we are not to judge one another. We are not to be executing judgment upon one another. We are not to be trying to control one another’s behavior unless God has pronounced you qualified to do it. If you think God has pronounced you qualified to do it, and you have not experienced several years of executing judgment upon your own carnal mind, you are probably deceived.

Jesus Christ is qualified to be the mediator, which is executing the white throne judgment, because he has overcome his own carnal mind, the soul that he was born with, which he inherited from his mother, which was fallen. Christ is the only one that is qualified to judge another man. If you are judging another man out of your carnal mind, surely you will reap what you have sown. A carnal man will come and judge you. If you feel inclined at all to enter into this ministry of judgment, be sure it is God. When you are in full stature, it is called the ministry of the sons of God. If you are not in full stature, it is called the ministry of the two witnesses company. If you feel that you are called to enter into this company, you had best be sure that it is God who has called you, because if He has not, if you are executing judgment in any form upon your brother, and it is not in a spirit of righteousness, you will reap what you have sown. You have judged and you will be judged.

If it is your carnal mind judging, that means you are most likely judging in a spirit of condemnation. If you condemn, you shall surely be condemned.  I think this is my message.  God requires us to look upon the sins of our brother. Now we find that human beings go in one of two directions. Either they look upon that sin and they say I want no part of this judgment, therefore I will deny that the sin is there. I will justify what the person is doing. I will make excuses for it. I will say they had a reason for doing that, therefore it is okay. A lot of religious people in the church think that this is the thing to do. They think it is a holy thing to do because the Scripture says do not judge your brother. Then on the other side of the coin is another group of believers. This is not just believers. This is humanity. This is human nature that we are dealing with. There is another group of believers which see sin in their brother, and they condemn him. They condemn him for it. Both of these reactions are unto death.

I remind you that the ministry of Christ is the resurrection of the dead. You cannot be killing your brother and raising him from the dead at the same time. There is another way, a better way, and it is in Christ. That is the Spirit of Truth, and the Spirit of Righteousness. God wants us to see every sin in every person that He reveals it to us through. Now at this point in our condition, if we were to see everybody’s sin of every human being that passed through our life, we probably could not bear it. The heart of man is desperately wicked, brethren. Who could know it? We probably could not bear it, but as God brings us into this ministry, and our discernment increases, and He shows us our brother’s sin, He expects us to perceive it with the Spirit of Truth. He wants an affirmation that it is in fact there, that it has happened, but He wants it without condemnation. He wants us to go before the Father and acknowledge that we have seen this sin, and ask for mercy upon the person in whom we have seen it.

We find in the prophet Ezekiel a strange mysterious account about travelers passing through the earth, and every time they see a man’s bone, they will be marking it. That scripture in Ezekiel is the judgment of the church, brethren, and eventually, the judgment of mankind. Bones in the Scripture typify spirit. I may not have the exact word in the King James, but I think the King James says travelers or journeymen. The meaning of the word is laborers. The implication is that they are natural men. The implication is that they are still fallen men. They are going to be passing through the earth continuously. Every time they see a man’s spirit, they are going to mark it, because it is illegal for man’s spirit to be showing. Man’s spirit is supposed to be underneath; underneath, underneath the Spirit of Christ. Man’s spirit is female. She has to have her head covered. She is supposed to be under Christ. When she is joined with Satan, she is arising and she is exposed in the form of the carnal mind.

We see a group of people called the two witness company. They are still imperfect, very much so, but they have looked upon their own hearts, and they have declared into heaven that it is truly desperately wicked. They have made a commitment unto God to judge their own souls to the fullest of their ability. They are confessing every sin God is revealing to them. They are repenting of it, and they are at war with their own souls, crying out to God to have mercy on them, and give them dominion over the wickedness in the heart that they were born with. That is what qualifies you to look at another man, and say, I see sin in his soul, and cry out to God to have the same mercy on him that you are asking for, for yourself. If you think that you are righteous, brethren, and that you are pointing out sin in another man, from a position of righteousness, it is not God sending you to do it. It is a spirit of self-righteousness. It is the spirit of a Pharisee, and it will bring judgment upon your own soul.

We have a dying world that we are sent to minister to, and the ministry that we are called to is, first of all, unto ourselves, unto our own carnal mind. We must preach the law of God unto the powers and principalities in our own heart, and not just preach it, but bring them into submission to us. There are a whole lot of powers than the principalities. If you look those words up in the Greek, you will find out that they are talking about the principal parts. Well, what does that mean? It is the principle parts of our mind; Satan, Eve, and the carnal mind. That is who they are, and they are all joined together, and they go by one name. They go by the name that appears in this realm, and it is called the carnal mind. The Greek word translated tribulation is a word, that if you follow it back to its root, it is speaking about bringing it into a narrow place. It is a vexation because it is a restriction. It is a restriction of our carnality. It is being restricted and restrained, and controlled by the Christ in us.

Now we have a lot of people in the church world that are into binding and losing, and they want to be out there controlling ungodly behavior. Well, that is okay, brethren, if you start with your own ungodly behavior. You must perceive it in yourself, and restrain it in yourself. See, everything you are doing to the other guy is illegal, but if you do it to yourself, it is okay. When you enter into that particular stage, only God can grant you the ability to start dealing with other men’s souls. Your guideline must be righteousness, love, mercy, compassion, forgiveness, and your heart must know that any ministry to another man in his sins must end in restoration. Brethren, it is the mind of man that would cast our fellow man down to hell, and burn him forever. This is not the mind of God. The mind of God is unto restoration, unto resurrection, unto glorification. He is very pitiful towards man because He knows that we are overcome by our strong enemy. He has told us in the Scripture what to expect. He has said they have hated me, and they surely will hate you. He has told us what to expect of man. I guess I am going on with this.

Paul is an apostle. He is one in whom Christ is appearing. He is authorized by God to judge the sin of his fellow brethren. Do we not hear him saying in another place that he had turned a brother over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh? We find it in another place. I think it is in one of the epistles of Peter where it says the judgment is in the flesh, that we might learn to live after the spirit. Brethren, it is the punishment of our carnal minds. God does permit our flesh to be punished sometimes, but mostly a scripture such as that is speaking about the flesh, which is the carnal mind. It is the punishment of the carnal mind that will enable Christ to arise in us. We have found several scriptures, both in the Book of Daniel, and more recently in Revelation 21, whereby it is explicit in the Scriptures that the carnal mind is very strong. In order for Christ to try to arise in the mind of a man, he must wound the man’s carnal mind. Imagine if you were engaged in an activity, and you are wounded. Let us say you are shot with an arrow or with a bullet, or you are hurt in any way, your whole attention would go to caring for that part of your body, which is in pain.

If someone had said to you, hold on to that door, and do not let it open because there is a thief outside, and you may receive a bullet wound in your hand. It would be a very rare heroic person that would not let go of the door. Brethren, for Christ to appear, he has to wound the carnal mind. The carnal mind is enclosing Christ, and inhibiting him, and restricting him, and warring against his efforts to appear as the mind of a man, so Christ must wound him. All of the attention of that carnal mind goes to defending or healing oneself, or comforting oneself, as Christ arises. There is no resurrection without the wounding, and the destruction, and the dismantling of the carnal mind. Even on a temporary basis, we read in the Book of Daniel that the angel said unto him, the minute you prayed, your prayer was heard, but the prince of Persia withstood me for twenty one days. Brethren, I declare to you that angel was the Christ within Daniel, and that the prince of Persia was his carnal mind. It took twenty one natural days for the angel of God, that was within Daniel’s own heart, to respond to his prayer.

Our strong enemy is within. As we take that victory, we are going to be sent to the church. The judgment of the church has already started, and it is starting with the elders thereof. An elder has to do with your spiritual maturity. It has nothing to do with whether or not you head up a ministry. There are plenty of people that have ministries that are not under judgment yet. God is going to the believer in whom Christ has already been conceived, but is not living out of him, either because he does not understand it, or he is not strong enough to rise up and wage war against him. If you have demonstrated the ability to take dominion over your own carnal mind, as Jesus put it, another city will be added to you, another believer who needs strengthening from outside of himself. If you prove faithful with that believer, you can receive as many as ten cities, Jesus said. Brethren, this is the hour that we are escaping from hell, and many are not even making an effort. We must conserve our energies. We must only go where we are sent. God is sending us to the ones who He knows have a chance of getting out.

When the firstfruits company stands up, and we have all that authority, we are going back to the whole world. The salvation of the human race is in the appearance of Christ in a firstfruits company. God is putting all of His efforts into raising up that firstfruits company in this hour. Do not be of a saddened heart for those who are not coming. It is a false teaching, thinking that we have to go out there, and get everybody saved now. It is not true. It is not true. It is not true. We are human in this hour. We are restricted by our physical needs. We are restricted by a twenty four hour day. We are restricted by a secular job. We are restricted by wives and husbands, and homes, and families, and responsibilities. We only have so many hours, and so much physical, and mental, and spiritual strength that we can give to this work of raising up the firstfruits company. Do not waste your energies where you are not being sent.

In this hour, Christ is choosing who are the apostles. It is his choice. He will choose who he sends to minister to them. He is arranging everything. Just ask him to help you to submit to his Spirit. Ask him to help you to develop the sensitivity and then just go. Speak your word, and take no responsibility for their spiritual growth unto yourself. You cannot bear this responsibility. It will drag you down. You are only responsible for yourself, and you are responsible to do what he tells you to do. If you do it, and there is no response, that is not your problem. I told you at another meeting that if you ask me for prayer, I will pray for you with all of my heart. If a demon comes out, praise the Lord. If God heals you, praise the Lord. If a demon does not come out, and you are not healed, do not blame me. We are just the channels. We are just the vessels. We cannot answer for other people, not for our husband, not for our wife, not for our children, and not for anybody else.

We are called to a very important job. It is hard, but it is not impossible to see with the natural eye, but in this hour the firstfruits company has begun to arise. It has begun to arise. God has a faithful few. He has a faithful few. It has to be in your heart. If it is not in your heart, you cannot put it there, so look to yourself. The traditional teaching would call you selfish, but I say unto you, if you are called to this firstfruits company, you must understand that many of the teachings, which are valid for the carnal man trying to live a life acceptable to God are different than the teachings for the apostle. To he who is led by the Spirit, there is no law. You are not under the law, if you are truly led by the Spirit of God. Do not let anyone take my words, and go and say that Sister Sheila said it is okay to do something ungodly. If there is anything that is going to get me mad, that will. I do not like it. Do not use me or my teachings to justify your sin.

If you are truly called to this firstfruits company, in this hour, the word of the Lord to you is, put all of your energies into perceiving God, and doing what He tells you to do, because the firstfruits company is the hope of humanity. Do not let anyone misunderstand me. Christ in you is the hope of glory, but in this firstfruits company, Christ will be in full stature. It would be a physical manifestation of him. He is the hope of humanity. He is the hope of your nation. He is raising up people all over the world, and he is our only hope. There is no religious law that will deliver us from the bondage that we are in. Lend yourself to self-inspection. Do not let any man condemn you. Do not condemn yourself, but look at the sin, tell God that you know that it is there, and that you desire righteousness. He has much work for you to do; much work for you to do.

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God. Now please note the gospel of God. We have several gospels in the Scripture. Every time you see the word gospel, you have to look for a modifying word. We have a gospel of Christ. We have a gospel of God. We have a gospel of the cross. The message that is being preached to the carnal church today is the gospel of the cross. It is the good news about what happened to the man Jesus on the cross; that he was raised from the dead; and that he is now pouring out of his Spirit upon all flesh; and the availability for reconciliation unto God is available. The death of the Lord Jesus Christ has resulted in our reconciliation unto Him, but there is also a gospel of God; a gospel about God. It is a gospel about God’s plans. We are a part of God’s plan. God intends to inhabit humanity. In the gospel of God is the gospel of how He is going to do it.

There are going to be a group of people that know how He is going to do it, and they will not be overtaken. They will work with Him through this difficult time, but the rest of creation, to them He will come as a thief in the night. He said to those who do my commandments, I tell you all things. Those who willingly follow the commandments will know what God intends to do. Those who do not willingly follow His commandments, will be overtaken, and will think that they were taken without their permission, as a thief sneaks up on you from behind. Why? Because they will not come any other way. Those who come willingly, the Lord says, you are my friends, you, who willingly obey my commandment. That is the scriptural definition of a friend of God. Remember, whatever you achieve in Christ, if you are called his friend, if you hear me teaching something that will quicken to you that you are an apostle, anything you hear from me, if it raises up pride in you, you are to rebuke that pride because pride is the enemy of the spiritual man.

Whatever we have received of God, it is to be used for God’s purposes. If we are truly apostles, we are ambassadors of Christ. We are to go where he sends us, do what he tells us, speak the word, let him choose the people we minister to. He is raising up this firstfruits company. He is his work. We are the servant. But if there is anything manifesting out of us that is short of the love, and compassion, and mercy of Christ, we must go before him and confess it. Do not be deceived. There is a spirit of righteous judgment. There is a spirit of righteousness, which to the carnal mind can appear to be unloving. Now this is the carnal mind’s concept of love, brethren, if your brother is caught in a sin, and you will not tell him the truth, this is not the love of God. The question is your motive for telling him the truth. If your motive is that you think you are self-righteous, and he needs to be corrected, you are best to keep quiet. But God is raising up a company of men who have overcome their own souls, who can go to that brother that is ensnared in the things of this world, and say, brother, this is not of God.

The Lord may send you once or twice, and He can send you, on occasion, with a sharp rebuke. That sharp rebuke is not necessarily of God. It can be of Christ, but you have to discern the spirit, and you must look at the fruit of the rebuke. Has the rebuke brought forth repentance, or has the rebuke condemned that man into such a condition that he cannot rise up? Have you rebuked him in an attempt to restore him? Have you rebuked him, and then have you encouraged him, saying that there is strength in Christ for you to arise up out of this condition? Or have you rebuked him in a spirit of condemnation, which leaves him no hope of restoration, but just that he should spend the rest of his life knowing how miserable a man he is? This is not of God.

There is a spiritual nobility appearing in the church, brethren; God’s high priesthood. They do nothing of themselves, and there is no benefit for them in this ministry. It is not of themselves. It is not for themselves. There is no gain for themselves. There is only gain for God. We are living in a very exciting hour. There is so much work to do, so much judgment to be pronounced. There is so much error in the church to be corrected, and it is not only doctrinal error. We were speaking about this in the car coming out, how many believers today think that all they have to do is sit home, and listen to a message, and they will enter in. Doctrine is not the whole thing. It is a part of the whole, but it is not even the most important part. The most important part of the preparation for the resurrection is our character, brethren. God is forming our character into the nature of God.

We cannot see what our character is truly like if we are restricting ourselves from interacting with other human beings. You see, the whole human race is fallen. So if we start spending a lot of time with people, we are sure to find a fault in them. We are sure to perceive a sin in them. There is probably even a surety that we will rub wrongly with somebody. God wants us to see this about ourselves. He wants to see how we are going to deal with the person that has done us wrong. He wants to see what we are going to do when we realize that we have done wrong. Are we going to employ the methods of the world to deal with these problems, or are we going to move in the Spirit and the love of Christ? This is the challenge of the hour. It is not how much knowledge you have, but is your very nature being converted into the nature of Christ? There is no way you can tell without being tested. We must interact with one another. It is essential. It is more important than the doctrine in this hour.

We have a whole church full of people that have been listening to messages for five or more years. They have plenty of teaching. Their head is full of it. Maybe their spirit is full of it, but you cannot go on without the test. You must be rubbed up against Christ. You will find as you begin to move into this two witness company, God will send you to people that He knows are going to do ill against you. So the fact that someone does ill against you, or the fact that there is a wrong spirit present, does not mean that you should stay away. We never know what God’s purposes are. Remember, the Jews stumbled over Jesus’ flesh. God is sending people that are still imperfect or whom He has brought into a certain measure of obedience to try them. He is the only one that can make that judgment. He is sending them to other people to try them. He is saying to them, will you perceive Christ in my servant, or will you misjudge him. Will you misjudge his motives? Will you think him evil? If you do, why do you do that?

When a man perceives the heart of Christ to be evil, this is the exposure of sin. It is usually pride or envy in his own heart. God will send you to be a stumbling block. If you are in this ministry of the two witness company, there will be trouble everywhere you go. There will be confrontation everywhere you go. There will be blasphemy everywhere you go. You will pass through a fellowship and that fellowship will never be the same. It will be a spiritual explosion, because everywhere you go, if it is truly God that has called you to this, everywhere you go, you bring judgment with you. If you go because of righteousness, if you go because God sent you, and if you go with the word that He gave you, not only this glorious doctrine, but the word that He gave you for that meeting, it will bring judgment on whatever sin is in that congregation.

I spoke to another minister not too long ago. We were having a problem with a local ministry, and the man appears to be under a severe judgment. I spoke to this other minister, who the Lord brought up from another state. I am in New York State. The Lord brought him up from another state, and we had an unfortunate incident. It came out that it was a Godly spirit, but it did come out. I said to this other minister, do you know that every time you ever came into that church you hit on the exact problem that was happening in the church? He said, I had no idea. I said, every time you came, you hit right on the problem. He said, so that is why this pastor is so mad at me. I had no idea. He sends you to deal with the problems in the church. Why? Because the church is imperfect.

Everywhere you go there will be problems. If God has truly sent you, and you come in just to bring a message, or if you think you are coming in just to bring a message, you are mistaken. If the Spirit of God brings you in, every place you preach, every person that He brings to you to speak to, is a warfare between the Christ in you and the powers and principalities in the people. God will possess this people. You see, it took Gabriel twenty one days to get through the prince of Persia. It is already two thousand years for the angel of the Lord in the church to be breaking through into the minds of the people. Remember, Gabriel came to Daniel for only a short moment to deliver a message. The breaking through of the angel of the Lord in our own heart, when He finally does break through, will remain forever, so it is a greater warfare. It is already two thousand years. This piercing through of the angel of the Lord is already fighting this battle for two thousand years.

God is not fooling around. He is not sending His evangelists to tickle your ears, that you should hear some high doctrine that should cause you to be lifted up in pride. There will be no resurrection of the dead without the judgment of your soul. If the minister is truly of God, your soul will be judged in that ministry. Sin will be exposed. Conviction of sin will take place, and hopefully confession, and repentance, and deliverance, and healing.  It is not God’s purpose to just tickle your ear. It is not true that you will enter in on this doctrine alone. You are not saved by doctrine. You are saved through union with the very Christ, and your carnal mind does not want to be joined to him, because union with the very Christ is the death of your carnal mind. S o how can this resurrection occur without this warfare? The carnal mind will never let Christ be exalted in you.

Ministry is a warfare. Many young believers see you standing here with this microphone, and they say, oh I want to preach. It looks so glamorous. It is fun to preach, but there is a whole other side to it. You must know that when you truly serve God, you have been called into the war. People will be mad at you for no legitimate cause. They will hate you without a legitimate cause. They will speak evil of you for the good works that you do, for no legitimate reason. You must know this, and you must go anyway, but go knowing this. It is only painful at the beginning, because in our humanity we would like to believe that we go bringing deliverance to humanity, and that humanity will fall down, and be grateful for it, but this is not the nature of man, brethren. The nature of man hates righteousness, so we must bring them the gift of God, even though they kill us. What happened to all those scriptures about crucifixion, and hatred, and persecution? They are all true.

This persecution is a spiritual persecution. Sometimes, people talk about you, and they lie about you, but the true persecution in the spirit is a persecution of the thoughts of their mind, which penetrates your heart, which crucifies your carnal mind. Christ cannot be damaged by the carnal mind. You see, this is a great mystery. I read this in an international newsletter, not too long ago, that Christ can be damaged by the carnal mind. Christ cannot be damaged by the carnal mind. This Christ in this hour is a threefold cord. He is indestructible. He is indestructible. When the evil thought of someone’s mind vibrates towards you, and you feel all this pain, it is not Christ in you. It is your humanity that is being hurt. This I say unto you, brethren, there is no greater thing than you can do than to lay down your life for your brother. What does that mean? Let your soul life be crucified, that you should do the work that Christ has sent you to do. This is the agape love of the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is not sticky, and it is not icky, and it is not gooey, and it is not kissing, and it is not hugging. Neither is it, brethren, the giving of food or whatever you feel moved to give somebody. That can be of God. I am not saying it is not of God, but it is phileo love, love for your brother. You see him in need, and you give him food. If he has no clothing, you give him clothing. That is not the agape love. That is the phileo love. The agape love of the Lord Jesus Christ lets your own soul be wounded and persecuted, and does not flee from it, but stands there and receives the wound as they minister Christ to you. I tell you the truth. That is the love that casts out the demon that the disciples could not cast out. The disciples could not cast that demon out because their true motive was that they wanted glory for themselves in the casting out of the demon.

Remember, Jesus said, how long will I suffer this generation? He was talking about this generation, which we are, of the carnal church that is casting out demons, and praying healing, and giving to the poor. You should not stop doing it. Do not twist my words. You should not stop doing it, but it is the ministry of the carnal man. It is not what Christ does. Jesus did heal and deliver, but he healed and delivered out of a different Spirit. He healed and delivered out of Christ. That is why he could cast out the demons, and the disciples could not cast out the demon. Their spiritual authority was coming from a different heart. So some demons come out when the church prays for them, but there are many demons that can only come out by prayer and fasting. It does not mean fasting from food, brethren, and it does not mean the kind of ritualistic prayer that is taught in the church. That other kind of demon comes out when you fast from your carnal ways, when you utterly deny your carnal mind, and you let Christ come to the forefront in you. The prayer is the continual prayer without ceasing that exists when you are in submission to Christ. That is the prayer and fasting.

Did you ever know anyone who prayed and fasted, and they still could not cast the demon out? It is not that kind of prayer and fasting. It is fasting from your humanity. That is what it is, fasting from your humanity. The Lord wants me to give you a couple of testimonies. I had two experiences where the Lord completely pushed my humanity to the background. I can only describe it to you by saying I felt as if I was behind a curtain. I was in the back there, but he was up front. I knew it was my body, and I knew that it was my voice talking, but it was not me. It was not me. In both of those incidents, it was a deliverance that no one else could bring forth. Let me give you this testimony about this one woman. She appeared to be in great distress. The church that I had belonged to was on an evangelistic trip, so we did not know the people. She appeared to be in great distress, very agitated.

To those of us that had any experience at all, she seemed to be manifesting a religious spirit. It kept repeating itself. She was speaking in a tongue, but it was not a Godly tongue. It was just chatter, chatter, chatter. It was repetitious, some kind of a thank you Jesus, thank you Jesus. It was a religious spirit. Of course, she looked like she was in such need that at least five people went rushing to minister to her. Well, about an hour and a half later, they had gotten nowhere, absolutely nowhere. Before I go any further, I want you to know that there is nothing special about me. God will use anyone the way I am about to describe to you, if you are willing to submit to Him. He is looking for a willing vessel. Anything that you hear me say to you, He is not only willing to give it to you, He desires to give it to you, but it requires a fast from soulish things. You have to be sold out to God, and then He chooses the moment, and He does not ask your permission to use you.

I was just walking around. I had prayed for somebody, and there was really nothing much for me to do, when a sister came over to me for no apparent reason. Apparently, the Lord moved upon her. She just came over and said, you see that woman over there. Her daughter was raped, and never recovered from it. She wound up in a mental institution. I do not remember any more of the details, but it was a tragedy. The woman was in great distress. She could not sleep at night, severe anxiety, and no peace. The woman said, we have been praying for her for an hour and a half, and we cannot even crack it. I just looked up and said, oh. There were five people there. How many people can pray for you at once? Well, I was walking around, and all of a sudden the Spirit grabbed me, and moved me over to the woman, and pushed me to the background. This was in my body now. The Spirit went right up to her, right past the others, and rebuked her, and said to her, sister, have you forgiven God for letting your daughter be raped? It looked like the woman went into shock. Everybody around there went into shock that you could talk to this suffering woman like this.

As far as I know, the only one who perceived that it was Christ in me was my pastor. God had plenty of witnesses, because we were thrown out of that church because of this. We were on an evangelistic trip, and we were told not to come back the next night, but the pastor told me that he knew it was God, so we just did not go back. Everybody was in shock, and the woman just stood there. It was God using my voice, and He said to her again; I said are you bitter towards God? It came forth in a loud tone about three times. Well, will you repent? Her teeth started to chatter, and she started to shake, and at least that religious manifestation broke, and she said, yes, yes, yes, I repent. I want to tell you, that I was an observer, back within myself. But I was not honestly convinced that she had repented, but eventually, I knew that she did, because she received deliverance. I prayed for her, when she said she repented. Like I said, I did not know what I was doing, whatever I did. I turned her over to three other people, and they started praying traditional deliverance for her, and I just knew the deliverance was coming forth. Deep wracking subs came out of her. She was doubled over. She was almost on the floor, and then she just passed out cold like a dead man, but that peace had come upon her. It is my understanding that she was delivered, and the pastor of the church told us not to come back.

This is the ministry He is calling you to. He wants the use of our flesh. He wants the use of our mind. He has to penetrate our carnal minds to get in there. Wherever He goes, there is warfare. You get thrown out of churches. People reject you. If you yield yourself to the Lord, you will come to the place where it does not bother you so much, because that is the way it is. If you want to be loved, you had better get another kind of job because they are not going to love you. They are going to hate you. There is going to be a few faithful, but even with the few faithful, you will have controversy. Why? Because people still have a carnal mind, and they are still fallen. Even those who truly do love you, and are faithful to Christ, Satan will stir up their carnal minds against you. Brethren, if you do not forgive one another when this happens, you will be totally alone. We, the true body of Christ need one another, but our carnal minds are still active enough to get in there and bring division. God requires every one of us to reconcile every single problem, to come together, to talk, to forgive, to be humble before one another, not to compromise righteousness, but to give our brother every opportunity to find his way to repentance. Give him a way out. Reach out to him. Talk to him. Tear down those walls of embarrassment, or pride, or envy.

As you grow in Christ, you will find that you are the one that God is sending to bring the reconciliation, to say, brother, be restored into the beloved. You are a part of the body of Christ, so your carnal mind manifested. You have repented, and it is over. Come back. We cannot let ourselves be separated. This is not easy. I want to tell you to turn on a cassette message and listen to high doctrine. That is easy. Wait until you enter into it. Maybe you have already entered into this ministry, to go to somebody that you know has hard feelings towards you, maybe someone in the church. Sit down and talk to them, and pray, and be instructed by God as to how to conduct yourself, that a true spirit of reconciliation comes forth. Brethren, two fallen men cannot be reconciled. They cannot because there is too much pride involved.

The Spirit of reconciliation from God must fall, and bring the peace. It is the only way. We must learn how to submit ourselves in the controversy. We must learn how to submit ourselves in the midst of the pride. We must learn to reject what is in our own heart; the pride, the envy, the resentment, the anger, the wounded feelings. We must learn to push it to the side, and do righteousness. This is how you shall know them, brethren, because they shall love one another. Again, this is not the love that gives food and clothing. That is the phileo love. You should do it. It is a good thing to do, but this is not the love by which you shall know Him. The love by which you shall know them is the love that rejects soulish reactions, and lives out of Christ. This is difficult. It can be painful, but I tell you when you start moving in it, it is glorious, and it becomes easy. It becomes easier. It becomes your automatic reaction. You just do it automatically.

We must get a revelation of this. The Lord gave us a second witness to the passage in Ezekiel that I mentioned earlier, where there will be a group of continuous laborers looking for the human spirit that is exposed above the ground, and marking it. In this day of Christ, it is illegal to be expressing your carnal mind. Now it is not a season that is covering the whole world. It is a season that is appearing in an individual one at a time. When Christ begins to appear in you, and as he matures in you, it becomes more and more illegal by the law of God to be expressing your carnal mind. You reach a certain point in your development, and only God knows with each individual, where it is sin unto you to yield to your carnality. If God makes a judgment that you are mature enough to not do that, and you yield to it, and there is no confession and repentance, it is sin unto you.

We found a second witness to that in Revelation 16. We looked up all the words in the Greek. We got a second witness that God considers it a sin and a perversion. We must be striving to overcome this spiritual weakness that we have. We are to strive to come against it, just as we strive to overcome the problems that are common to all mankind. Jesus said that if you lust for a woman, you have already committed adultery. Well, everybody strives to overcome lust in their mind. Everybody knows about that, but in this hour, we must strive to overcome all forms of carnality, in particular, in relationship to our brethren. The challenge of the hour is how we relate to one another. Can we recognize Christ in another believer? We cannot submit to one another if we cannot discern the Christ in them. God is challenging us. He will give us experiences that will let us practice. If our heart is open before Him, and we tell Him that we are willing to walk this walk, He will teach you and He will show you. He will give you such glorious experiences.

The second deliverance that I wanted to tell you about was of a woman who had been cursed with voodoo. Again, this was an evangelistic outreach. She walked into the church. She was a pastor in an area in New York that has a great deal of witchcraft. She came in flanked with a woman on each side of her. She could not even walk. I had the same experience with the Lord pushing me to the background. I laid my hands in certain specific places. I knew everything that I was doing, but it did not come forth of knowledge. It was the Lord. He had taken over my body. It was a serpent within her that needed to be cast out. I was attacked from the carnal mind within me, while I was doing the ministry. I received a pain in my back. I fell to my knees. I ministered from my knees. She went down on the floor. I had pain in my legs. I went down on the floor, and I could not get up. The Lord had a hold of me, and when it was all over, I could barely walk home.

I was in terrible pain the whole next day, but when I went into the service that night, I received a miracle. I was completely healed, but I did have to bear that pain for twenty four hours. There is a price to pay. You will be attacked in whatever your area of weakness, wherever your area of weakness is. Some people never get afflicted in their body. Wherever your area of weakness is, that is where you will be touched. That is where you will be tempted. This is not without a price, but it is glorious. It is worth it. It is worth anything, and everything to be so used of God, to know that God considers you to be so faithful that He will send someone for you to help. When I used to have a secular job, I was walking down the street one day, headed for my commuter bus. I was working in Manhattan, in New York City. There were just hundreds of people swarming on the street. There was a woman standing off, out of the way. She saw me coming, and she headed right for me. My first reaction was she must have thought I would give her something. I do not know why she would head right for me.

I listened to what she had to say, and I knew that God had sent her. I knew that God had sent her to me. At that time I did give her some money, but I prayed for her. I went and cried all the way home on the bus. I said, Lord, all I had was a couple of dollars, and He said to me, Sheila, the prayer that you prayed for her did her immensely more good than the couple of dollars that you gave her. I had a job waiting for her. I gave her a job. He sent her several miles, and said to her, wait in that spot. I have someone who will pray for you. Is that not awesome? That is awesome. That is what is waiting for you. He wants you to be apostles; sent ones. When He sends you, you will have authority to deliver that is beyond your wildest imagination, because it will not be your prayer for the person, but it will be His prayer for the person. You say, why did God have to send that woman several blocks? She probably walked. I do not know. Why did God not just give her her miracle? I will tell you why. It is because the Lord Jesus Christ has made a judgment that He will minister to humanity through the flesh. He will do it through men.

He has made a determination that this is the way He will do it. He is raising up this company right now. I cannot wait. I hear about all these ministries. We get a lot of mail in the United States. I do not know if you get it here or not, feed the hungry, and help the poor with clothing. They are doing a good work. They help a lot of people, but I want to come over here, and I want to do what Jesus did. I want the food to appear. I want them to be raised up from within themselves so they could work. I do not want to keep them slaves looking for handouts all the time. I want to see them healed. I want to see the beggars have healed bodies, so that they can go get a job. All of this ministry today, it is the ministry of the carnal church. It is the phileo love. The ministry of Christ is already returning to the earth, but it is just flickering. It is just flickering, but He is doing it. There is not a doubt in my mind it is going to be in our lifetime. I hope it is very soon.

I never used to understand that scripture where the apostles said, we rejoice that we have been found worthy to suffer for his name’s sake. I used to say, what are they talking about? Who wants to suffer? But this is what the Lord is talking about. He is not talking about a denial of yourself that is a religious work that would put you in bondage. He is talking about a fast from soulish things that would bring you into a spiritual condition or a prepared condition whereby he could manifest through you in glory. He is not taking things from you to torment you or to punish you. It is a preparation to be a vessel for the master’s use. You must have a measure of sanctification to experience. Man is polluted. We are polluted. We are down here, every one of us, in the bottom of the dung hill. There has to be a certain measure of cleansing for this kind of ministry. That is what the judgment of the church is. It is not a judgment of sin that is punitive. It is a judgment of sin that is a preparation for the glory of His life. If you can hear this word in this hour, if you can hear the word of the Spirit, submit to it. It is glorious. If you are hearing this message, he is calling you. Do you have a question?

COMMENT: In one of your messages you mentioned about the cherubs that are covering the throne. You talked about the anointed cherubim. I would like you to comment again.

PASTOR VITALE: When I studied that word, the English word is Seraphim. That is what you are talking about; the Seraphim. When you look that word up in Gesengus, a Hebrew Lexicon, that supplements Strong’s Concordance, he has a comment in it that he cannot in any way imagine that this creature could be likened unto God. It is something along those lines. He just cannot comprehend it, so it is a mystery that you have to get by God’s Spirit. He said he could not comprehend that a Serpent could surround God’s throne. Gesengus, is very scholarly man, and I thank God for his work. He says he cannot understand where this would come from, how a Serpent in any form could get that close to God.

Brethren, man is the Serpent. We are the Serpent. How did we become the Serpent? If you remember the teaching from the other night, the living soul married the Serpent. That is how we became the Serpent. We are the offspring of the Serpent. We take the name and the nature of our father. We are a spiritual Serpent in our hearts. That is what we are. But the Lord has seen fit to redeem us because the creation is God’s wife, and He depicts us in this chapter of Isaiah as Serpents with wings that are praising and serving God. We shall be redeemed Serpents, and we shall surround the throne of God. We shall be that close to Christ. Did I answer your question?

COMMENT: In the church we have this belief about the devil being in the Garden of Eden, and how he came to tempt Adam, but this is different from what you are saying. In Ezekiel it talks about the cherubims. Who is Lucifer?

PASTOR VITALE: I do not think it says Lucifer in Ezekiel. It just says the king of Tyrus. Ezekiel 28:13; Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering. Well that is speaking about Christ being the mind of the early creation. It says every precious stone was your covering. The gems were jewels in the Scripture, and referred to the nature of God. God is talking to the prince of Tyrus. He is talking to man. The prince of Tyrus typifies man. He is saying, look, you had all of this, in Ezekiel 28:12. You sealed up the sum, you were full of wisdom, you were perfect in beauty, and the Spirit of God was your covering. That means your mind was Christ. It says here, the day you were created in verse 15 you were perfect until iniquity was found in you. First of all, it says he was created. He was talking about the living soul, and that He put the mind of Christ in him at the beginning of time. Therefore, he had all of his needs met. There was no reason to disobey God.

I am never justifying anybody’s sin, but you know if a man is hungry, and he steals a loaf of bread, it is still sin, but you have to have some mercy. The man was hungry. God is saying to him, you had no lack. There was no possible excuse for even mercy. Why would you do such a thing? That is what He is saying. You had everything. You had the mind of Christ and I set you upright in the garden. You are the anointed cherub that covereth. I mentioned the cherubim a couple of times in these last meetings. The creation is the cherub. I had somebody say to me once, we cannot be the cherub. The cherub is an imaginary creature. If you look it up, it says it is an imaginary creature. Well that is what we are. We never existed before God imagined us. There was no man. God had a dream. He had an imagination. He said, let us make man in our image. While it was in His mind, we were an imagination. I do not know exactly at what point the name changed here, but God had an imagination.

He said, let us make man, and He called this imagination a cherub. That is the name that He gave to the creation. Here it says he was the anointed cherub in verse 14 of Ezekiel 28. That means it was the living soul in whom Christ was living. That means you had every gift of God with no lack. That is what God is saying to him. He said, I have set thee, I made you this way. I made you with every need met. You were upon the holy mountain of God. That means because your mind was Christ, you were in the high place with God. You walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. I think I looked that up, but I do not recall exactly what it means, but stones refer to spirit, and fire is a characteristic of God. Probably, what God is saying to him is that you abided in the fire and you were not destroyed. You see, our God is a consuming fire. When we get close to Him, our carnality gets burnt.

He is saying you were close to the fire and it did not burn you. That means there was no sin in him at the beginning of time. That is just another witness to what I said earlier. If God has truly sent you, and you come in, and it is the Spirit of God, and it is the Word of God, you are fire to every carnal mind that you are ministering to. There is always explosions and trouble everywhere you go. Wherever Jesus went, there was trouble. They were always throwing him out of the synagogue, and talking about him. There was always trouble surrounding his ministry. So you are the anointed cherub that covereth in verse 14. You walked in the stones of fire. You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created. I do not know what that Hebrew word perfect really says. I know in Genesis it does not say he was perfect. It says he was good. It most likely is a word that can be likened to the perfection of Job.

Now we know that Job was not perfect, because he was a fallen man. Yet, God called him perfect, meaning he was perfect in his execution and observance of the law. Job was not a perfect man. Jesus was a perfect man. Job was a fallen man, who was perfect in his observance of the law. You realize I am doing this off the top of my head. What God must be saying here is that Job was perfect in that which I gave you, not that you were incapable of sin, but you were perfect for the covenant that I gave you. You may recall from the teaching that the mind of Christ that was in the creation, at the beginning, was capable of falling, because sin was present. Well, it was not sin yet. Let me change that. The potential for sin was present in the creation, and it had not yet been bound together with the mind of Christ, which is what happened in the mind of the man Jesus. The mind of Christ was bound together with his carnal mind, and ultimately killed on the cross and destroyed. In the garden, the potential for sin was not bound, so Adam just made one wrong move and sin rose up and took over the creation. Are you following me?

Ezekiel 28:15; Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Well, how was iniquity found in him? I prayed about that for the longest time. Iniquity was found in him one day. There was no sin, and one day there was sin. He was not fallen at the time. We found out that what happened was that Adam, this anointed cherub, who had his every need met, because of his weakness, because of his immaturity, because of his lack of experience with evil, because of his lack of experience with death, for a split second entertained one of the thoughts of his lower nature. In entertaining that thought, he separated from God in his mind, joined with Satan, produced the carnal mind, and the creation died. Did I answer your question?

Were you there when I drew the picture of the tree? The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was in the midst, and it separated out and it became two trees. Right now, the living soul is still separated from the tree of life. This is another witness that the true marriage is the rejoining of the two trees, of the tree of life to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil must go back in the midst of the tree of life, so Christ is marrying the living soul. That is the true marriage, spirit to soul. Well, I guess the Lord wants me to tell you this. Now remember, I am talking about spiritual things here. I do not like to say this, but I am going to tell you.

You know, we are down here. We are a fallen creation. God has made a provision for men and women to live together. The marriage bed is undefiled. If God has brought you, and is saying be sanctified in this realm, the marriage bed is most certainly undefiled. I am having trouble saying this. Some people get upset. But as you start to ascend to higher things, when God looks at us down here, He knows that the true marriage is between spirit and soul. Do not let anyone get me wrong. It is okay to be married. When He looks at two souls, married to one another, from His high place, when He calls you up, He looks at the marriage down here as a homosexual relationship. Can you hear that? Even though it is a man and a woman, it is soul to soul. It is soul to soul.

Now we hear a lot of rumors that Jesus was married, that Jesus was this, that Jesus was that. When you are where Jesus was, God has called you to that high place, and you choose a human marriage, you are saying to the Lord, I choose a union with soul over a union with spirit. Now listen to me very carefully, you are not to give up marriage unless God calls you to that high place. I am not against marriage at all. You should have one or the other. If God calls you to a high place, you should be willing to give up marriage. I know a lot of people that He has taken it from them. He has just hindered them every time they try to marry. I was one of those people. I was married. I have a twenty one year old daughter, but I certainly was young enough to marry again. The Lord had just not made a way for me to do it. If God apprehends you, and He calls you to be a eunuch for Christ, to marry, to choose a soulish life over a life in the spirit, to God it is an act of spiritual homosexuality. If you are not called to that high place, you should be married. You should have a husband, you should have a wife, you should have children, and you should live a good rich full life. Everything in the Scripture is not for everybody at every time of their life. Do you understand what I am saying?

Marriage is a good thing. If God calls you to something different, and you lust for something that He has not called you to, to God that is a perversion. Do you understand what I am saying? You are asking what does it mean for Adam to cleave unto his wife. Well, every scripture you can apply it on the spiritual level or you could apply it on the carnal level. If God has called you to a marriage on this level, well then it is true that you have to leave your physical mother and father, and cleave unto your wife. You are not supposed to be preferring your mother over your wife. But if God has called you to a walk in the spirit, the man is the Christ in you, and your wife is your carnal mind. So you must leave your father and your mother. Your father is Satan. We have established that. For the spiritual man, the Christ in you is the man, and we could say your mother is the church, which has produced you, or you could say your mother is Eve. We know that Eve is the mother of all living. That is another way of saying that it is your carnal mind.

Your spiritual man has grown out of your carnal life. If your mother is Eve, it is her marriage to Satan, which has produced your birth of water, out of which your spiritual man has grown forth. First, you are born in water, and then you are born in blood. First you are born a carnal man, and the spiritual man comes after the carnal man. So you have to leave the carnal ways, leave the mother in her union with Satan, who is the birth of water, and cleave unto the spiritual man, which is Christ within you. We are the bride of Christ. Did I answer your question?

COMMENT: What does it mean for someone to have this high experience when you are married?

PASTOR VITALE: You are talking about attaining to perfection. You can be married, but you cannot engage in sexual intercourse when you attain to perfection. Right now we are a double minded man. We are engaging in the activity of fallen man, which God has said is undefiled. We are also moving in spiritual realms, and we are unstable in both our ways. We are both spirit and soul. It is like saying to a human being, we are both male and female. That is a perversion. I do not know if you see it here, but we find that in the United States, every once in a while, someone is born with both male and female organs. They do not have much of a natural life. They are considered a freak. Spiritually speaking, we are a perversion in this hour. We cannot stay this way. When we attain to the highest realm, at the point that we attain to the highest realm, where Jesus was, we will have given up this natural life completely.

Sexual intercourse is part of that natural life. It is part of the activity of the fallen man. It is good and acceptable to God when you are in that place. You should enjoy your marriage. You should not worry about this because God has called you to marriage. You should have many healthy children. God has called you to this. He is capable of doing anything. We are going to be converting the world for a couple of thousand years. You have plenty of time. God has chosen fit to see you marry. You raise your family, and maybe twenty years from now you will move into that. You can be very spiritual while you are still married, but you cannot go all the way. Can you understand that? You cannot be doing the things of the flesh and walking in the high realms of the Spirit at the same time. When Christ is fully your mind, it changes your life, at that point that Jesus calls you to the totality of a union with him. To be in full stature, and to have the full mind of Christ, you are called to a total union with him. At the point that he brings you to that place, he wants you completely for himself.

Come here. I want to pray for you. You are all upset. Come here. Listen to me. Whatever Jesus brings you to, he prepares your heart for it. This is like your baby saying I do not want to get married when I grow up. I do not think I am going to like that kind of life. This is where you are now. God has blessed you with a beautiful husband and a healthy child. You are not losing anything. Maybe she is going to be a powerful son of God, and the Lord let you get married to have this baby. Come here. You are going to cry. It is okay. Look, you can have both, but not at the same time. Raise your family, and you will still know your husband. You will not be losing your husband, but your relationship will change. Right now, you are relating as a soul to a soul, and then you will be relating as a son of God to a son of God. Do you know the scriptures about the love between Jonathan and David? So you will be relating to your husband in that way because you both will be spiritual men. You will have a love that will be greater than the love that you share now. In this love you will not be lacking. You will have something better. It is hard to believe though. You probably think you have the best of everything, right? It is hard to believe, but God will lead you step by step. Let me pray for you.


Lord, in the name of Jesus. Dear God, bless this woman. I rebuke this fear O God. I rebuke everything in her carnal mind that would steal what you have for her now, and I ask that you move by your Spirit and give her a peace, and an understanding, and an ability to be content with what she has for as long as God lets her have it. Help her, Father, over this stumbling block of this doctrine, I pray in the name of Jesus.

You know, everything is not forever. You see, this is why it is so dangerous to take whatever doctrine God has put in your heart, and try and force it on somebody else. You see, what is good for you now is not time for somebody else. It may be time for you, but it is not time for somebody else. For anyone to go out and say that you must give up marriage now, this is an ungodly thing to do. If you are single, you go and lead your life. If God gives you a mate, and you pray, and you believe it is of God, you get married. You are not married, are you? If God gives you a mate, you get married. You get into trouble when God says, either I want you to be a eunuch, and you say no way, I am getting married, or God says, I want you to get married, and you say no way, I want to be a eunuch. Neither one is good. We must be in God’s perfect will. If you abstain from marriage because you desire in your own strength to ascend to that high place, it will not get you in, and you will have been robbed of a full marital life. God never told you to do it. Only come if God has called you, in this hour.

You have to be called in this hour. Sister, you can have both. You can have both because you are a young woman and you are married. Twenty years from now you could have a whole different life. You have to do what God calls you to. Do not push against the pricks. He knows what is best for you. It is just that when He calls you to something that goes against your culture, it is a little painful. I always find that there is deliverance in understanding. There is deliverance in understanding. There is a small company of eunuchs that God is calling in this hour. If He has called you to it, whether you want it or whether you do not want it, do not push against the pricks. If He has made a judgment that it is you, you are going. On the other hand, if He has made a judgment that you are here to bring forth the sons of God in the next generation, then you have to bear your children.

God has called each of us to a job, and He has called us to contentment, but that contentment is in knowing that we are where He has put us. That does not mean that there will be no persecution or any form of discomfort. It does not mean that it is anything to condemn yourself for. I do not really know what you are feeling, if you see something, and it is not yours right now, and you feel a sadness in your heart. Let us say this firstfruits company stands up tomorrow, and you are not one of them because you have a child to raise, but in twenty years it will be your turn. If there should be a sorrow in your heart, you do not condemn yourself for that. You are human. We have emotions. We have feelings. We are human. We are not to do anything ungodly because we are motivated by those feelings, but neither are we to condemn ourselves for them. Do you understand?

Even if you have envy for somebody, that is sin, and you are not to act on it. You are to pray for the other person and bless them, but neither condemn yourself because you perceive the envy in your heart. It is your human condition. This is our condition. So let us all receive what God has for us. Did not Paul say, if you are married, be content with your life. If you are not married, be content with your life. If you have a wife, stay with her. If you do not have a wife, do not seek for one. Did not Paul say that? That is what my Bible says. Paul also said, that because of this current distress, it is better that you be not married. What was he talking about? He was talking about the men and women who were called to full stature. It is a stressful procedure that will produce full stature. It is stressful. I have been going through it for years. I do not lie to anybody. I am telling you, it is stressful. It is doable, as we say, in the United States. You can do it. It is doable. All things are possible in Christ, but it is stressful. It is likened to the physical labor of bearing a child. You would not want to be going through that when you have to be calm and gentle with your children. Everything must be in proper order. Everything in proper order. Hallelujah.

This is one of the human issues of the hour. It is not one of the primary issues of God in this hour. One of the primary issues of God is the resurrection of the dead, and how it is going to happen, how it is our spiritual substance that goes on, and not our bodies. Marriage is the number one human topic of the hour in the church. The carnal church is going to have to, sooner or later, confess that they have been teaching a wrong teaching on it. Most of the carnal church totally denies this teaching, but the hour is at hand for the manifestation of the sons of God, so it must come forth. There are sons in the church that God has set apart for Himself, that He has not provided a mate for.

Because they have not heard this teaching, they are suffering. They are wondering if there is not something wrong with them. Is there a curse on me? Is God doing evil to me for some reason? This is not of God, brethren. Whatever difficulty you might have in adjusting to a lifestyle that is not traditional, well, that is the price that you pay for serving God, but this persecution that comes from the church is not of God. This persecution that says there is something wrong with you because you do not conform with tradition, this is not of God. This is persecution coming from the carnal church. This message is very important because God has consecrated a group of people, and absolutely refuses to give them mates. They are suffering, because they do not understand, and that is not of God.

COMMENT: There is a scripture that talks about in the resurrection, they neither marry nor are given in marriage. I guess it is all part of what you are saying.

PASTOR VITALE: In the resurrection there is no marriage or giving in marriage. You see it is a very hard word, and God gave it to me. Brethren, as a result of the fall, we fell into animal bodies. This was not God’s intention, but we are down here in hell. For two reasons He has permitted us marriage because this is our condition. It is undefiled and it is good. It is so the human race can be perpetuated until that generation whose soul and body becomes permanent. Then there will be no more reason for the perpetuation of the species.

I am going to say it again. God has put a desire in our heart in the form of lust that encourages men and women to marry, so that the species will be perpetuated, until that last generation when the existing human beings stop dying, because Christ has been raised from the dead in them. Then there is no more need for new babies to be born, but God will not leave you with an empty heart or an empty nest. He said that the children of the barren woman will be much more than the married wife. As God brings you into spiritual manhood, He will give you spiritual children, spiritual things to do, spiritual activities, that will be very gratifying and very satisfying. We must believe that He loves us, and it is not His intention to torment us. If He has called us to this form of sanctification from the things of the world, He will make it tolerable for us. We must believe it. He is a loving God. You have to believe it, if you do not. You have to believe it. He is God.

This activity that men and women engage in, which is a very large part of our human life, is a very big thing in life. I will not deny that. It is passing away because it is an activity that exists in our fallen condition. When we are raised from the dead, we will no longer be engaging in the activities which put us in a similar level as the animals. Now do not take that the wrong way. God has sanctified marriage, but it is not something that God is doing. Can you hear that? It is not something that God does. I have been preaching that God has intercourse of the mind. I have had this word in my heart for years; intercourse of the mind. I have not really entered into this yet. I just have a peace with being single. I have a peace with my condition, but I have not entered into a condition of intercourse of the mind that can be likened to marital activity. I have not, but I believe that it is something that is coming in the resurrection.

I just have had this word in my heart for years, until I had an opportunity to speak to a drug addict about six or eight months ago. I did not ask him, but he just told me about the different kinds of drugs that he takes. He said there is one kind of a drug that stimulates a particular area of your brain, and it is like you are engaged in intercourse for twenty four hours. I just looked at him, because I know that Satan counterfeits everything that God does. So it is just a center of the brain that is producing this sensation of wellbeing that the whole world is lusting after. Everybody wants to feel good. That is what everybody is craving when they look for sexual intercourse. Sometimes it is because you love a person, and lust has nothing to do with that. You want to feel good, is that not true? It is true, right? If all you have to do is stimulate a center of your brain, well then, surely, this type of satisfaction can come through a communion of spirit and soul, that is of the joining or the marriage with God. Do you know what I am saying? To me it was just a witness that it is true.

I have experienced it in these few occasions where God has caught me up very high. I am with the Lord for fifteen years. I may have had five experiences where I was up really high, and He always did it for a purpose, ministry for somebody. I gave you the testimony about the man whose brain was reconnected. I was up so high that I was in glory. It was just like His Spirit was just pouring out upon me. I was in ecstasy. I do not know for sure, but it is even possible that I had been caught up to what we would call a condition of full stature, but it was temporary. It only lasted a couple of hours. Boy, did I feel good. It was wonderful. I am going to tell you the truth. We are talking frankly today. Seeking a satisfaction that comes from human sexuality is temporary. Please do not misunderstand my words. Compared to what God has for you, it is an inferior form of satisfaction. I will tell you why. It is because you are dependent upon another person.

God forbid, your mate gets sick, or God forbid, your mate dies, or God forbid your mate is called into the army, and goes away for two years. You are thrown into a condition of frustration, and you have nothing to say about it. You are used to this relationship, and all of a sudden, it is ripped from you suddenly, because you are dependent, or this pleasure, or this sense of satisfaction, or comfort, is dependent upon another person. It happens in life all the time that you lose your mate, temporarily or permanently, but in this union with God, that is an intercourse of the mind, there is no disappointment. There is no loss of it under any circumstances. There are no failures. There are no good days and bad days. It is perfect and a continuous sense of contentment and satisfaction. That is why I say the form of comfort that we receive in a marital life compared to what God has for us, is an inferior comfort. Can you understand what I am saying?

The only problem with this is that there is a period of transition from giving up of the marital life unto the entering into this kind of communion with God. It depends on your walk or the season. I do not even know. You may be in the midst, but all that I could tell you is that it is tolerable. If it is not tolerable for you, you should get deliverance. You need deliverance. If you are being driven, you should get deliverance. You are not supposed to be in torment. Seek God for deliverance. He either has to give you a wife or He has to make it tolerable for you. He is not in the business of tormenting people. He is calling us to very high places. He is offering us something far better than what we have here, but there is that period of transition where it is uncomfortable, even largely because we are flying largely in the face of tradition. We are doing something so different than what everyone else is doing, that it is almost programmed into our soul to desire it.

I ministered to a couple of young women back in New York. They suffer in their emotions because they are torn between the call of God on their life, which obviously is denying them a husband, at least at this time. Their traditional desires, and their mothers saying to them, and their grandmothers saying to them, when are you going to get married? What is this Jesus thing with you? Your whole life is going to be ruined. You will be old and no one will marry you, and you will not have any children. Then they hear this word, and they hear the word of the Lord in their own heart, and they know that it is of Him that they do not have a husband. Whether they will have one in the future or not, I do not know. I see them torn and ripped, and they suffer because of the pressures of society, saying this lifestyle cannot be right, but it is scriptural. That is why God gave me a teaching with four messages on 1 Corinthians 7. The Church is not preaching it correctly.

God may be calling you to be a eunuch. If He is, it is a valid respectable lifestyle. If anyone is persecuting you because of it, if you can do it in love, you should even explain to them whatever you can of what we are talking about today, because the word has to get out. Every person that is being persecuted by the church is bringing judgment upon the church. We are supposed to be loving one another, not tormenting one another. God has everything under control. He is pulling everyone where He wants them at this moment. Nobody knows where we are going to be twenty years from now. If you would have told me that I would be in Nigeria preaching twenty years ago, I would have really thought you were a very funny person. If you would have told me that I would have been preaching twenty years ago, I would have thought you were a very funny person. In a million years, I would have never believed it, that this could happen to me.

Even now, from time to time, I still go into periods of identity crisis. I cannot believe what happened to me. What happened to the rest of my life? God just scooped me up, and dragged me out of it. Every now and then, I go into identity crisis, and I say, I just really cannot even really believe that I am here doing this. I remember my life from ten years ago, and how radically changed it is. He did it very quickly. For me it was a radical change. When He first started doing it, I was really in an identity crisis. I used to walk down the street and say I do not know who I am anymore. I do not know what I am, whom I am, where I am, where I am supposed to go or do. It is a radical change. The Bible calls it a conversion. It is a total conversion of your life. He is going to make of you whatever He wants. Be at peace, and be blessed with what you have because He is a good God. He is a good God. Praise God. Glory to God.

COMMENT: When I was about sixteen I went with my mother to get new members for the church. I heard this voice saying to me, you are going to be going to Israel as an evangelist. I said, oh no. I just sat here when you were saying that Africa is Israel. Now here I am fulfilling that word.

We are not to do anything in our flesh. If you are married, and God starts calling you up, the Scripture clearly says you are not to deprive one another. If it is God calling you to this, it will happen naturally. We are not to deprive each other, husband or wife. You are not to deprive one another. All kinds of rumors go around about what Sister Sheila said. You are not to deprive one another. God will bring it to pass naturally at such time as He calls you to it. Maybe He will not even call you to it. I do not know, but do not break your mate’s heart. You are not to do that. It is not of God.

COMMENT: Why would God say in Genesis 1:28, be fruitful? I know you said this relationship with a man and a woman came as the result of the Fall.

PASTOR VITALE: You are assuming that the fruit is human fruit, but I think the fruit is Christ. Is not the fruit Christ? God said, go forth and multiply. Again, one of the things we are teaching in New York, for those who come regularly, is to be very careful not to draw conclusions because God is a Spirit, and we are soul, and we do not comprehend His thoughts. He tells us that in a scripture. To draw a conclusion with our fallen mind is very dangerous. God said go forth and multiply. He did not say multiply like we multiply now. I believe that there was a way for Adam to multiply. It was a form of cell division. I mentioned it the other night. That is not the way we multiply today. If you look that phrase up in the Hebrew, what He is really saying is go forth and multiply, and then bear fruit, and fill humanity with the fruit of Christ. That is what it is saying in the Hebrew. Let me just get the exact scripture for you so that I can leave you with a strong impression of it.

Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth. Bring forth Christ in the creation. He does not say how to multiply, replenish the earth, or renew the earth.  Let Christ be the life of the living soul. That is what He is saying. I think Adam was the first creation. A lot of people think otherwise because of Genesis 1:1, but I am of the opinion that Genesis 1:1 is speaking about the creation of the basic elements of the creation. Remember, God is Spirit. This material world is a creation. In one of the prophets, the Lord likens it with this parable. He says for a man to build a house, first he must go out into the woods and cut down a tree. Genesis 1:1 is the creation of the basic building blocks of matter, which are the different elements and atoms of it. Starting with Genesis 1:2 or further on, I may not have that verse right, He takes these elements, and He forming the man out of it. I do not think there was a creation before Adam.

COMMENT: In Genesis it says that God was led to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarm forth according to their kinds. And every winged flying creature according to its kind. God said it was good and blessed them, and said to be fruitful. Is that the same blessing in which He blessed the animals that He created, and that He passed on man? Would the reproduction be different? Are they spirit animals or things like that spirit man?

PASTOR VITALE: I will pray about it. It is a very good question. He asked if God said the same command to the animals, be fruitful and multiply, was it a spiritual fruitfulness for man, and a flesh or fruitfulness for the animals. I do not know, but I definitely will ask the Lord about it. Leave me your name and address, and if He gives me an answer, I will write to you. What I can do when I go home is to look it up and see if it is the same Hebrew word. If it is the same Hebrew word in both places, then I will have to pray about it.

COMMENT: Even if the command was physically multiplying to increase the population on the earth, I still do not see how this other aspect comes in.

PASTOR VITALE: What Sister Margaret is saying is that even if it turns out that it was the same command, the ultimate goal for humanity is to be converted from a living soul into a quickening spirit, and that honor is not given unto the other animals.

COMMENT: Who did God expect the multiplication to be after? Was it after Adam, in the state of innocence, when He gave the command at that time? Further on it said that Adam produced Seth after his own. What did God have in mind at that time. Is it to fill the earth with fallen man or fill the earth with what?

PASTOR VITALE: A lot of people believe that God knew that man would fall and planned it that way. Is that your question? I do not believe that God planned it that way. I think He might have known that it would happen, but He certainly did not plan it that way. It is just like saying you know that your small child is capable of falling down in the well. For an extreme example, we have a big drug problem in the United States. You do not have a baby expecting him to grow up to be a drug addict. You know that you are bearing him in an area where nine out of ten men become drug addicts, but you do not believe it is going to happen to your baby. I believe God knew the potential was there, but I do not think that He planned it.

That sounds strange to say that God was hoping for the best, but I cannot think of any other way to express it. I do not think that God planned this fall. I do not believe that. I think He knew it was a potential for it, and He did all that was possible to warn Adam, but it was Adam’s humanity that manifested. It was Adam’s imperfection that manifested. That is my opinion, and I cannot prove it.

COMMENT: I know that Adam was not truly perfect. The word says that Jesus was the lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world. Could it have been even the plan for the son of God, or the son of man, to come and die even before Adam was created? God knew everything that would happen, all this evil, and that Adam would fall, and everything has been working according to God’s plan.

PASTOR VITALE: I am familiar with that teaching, but we looked up those words that the lamb was slain from the foundation of the world. We looked it up in the Greek. I certainly would not argue with you about this, but this is what God has said to me. The correct translation is the lamb that was slain so that the earth could be founded is talking about the spiritual son of God who was slain so that the earth could be formed. We are made out of his life. This earth, even the atmosphere, and the elements in the atmosphere, are made out of the substance of the living God. We were not created out of nothing. That word slain, if you look it up in the Greek, means to be dressed for slaughter. The son of God died to his existence as a spirit in the bosom of the Father so that he could be carved up and this creation could be formed out of him. That was the death of the lamb. It was the death of the spirit of the son. The one who died on the cross was the soul life of the man Jesus of Nazareth. It was not the eternal Spirit of God.

We are getting into a whole new subject here. What made Jesus was the mind that was in him. Jesus’ mind was raised from the dead. His mind was Christ. Christ did not die on the cross. The man Jesus died. I can establish that for you easily. If you look that up in the Greek, you will see that his soul life died on the cross. His soul life died because his spirit was righteous, and the Father raised him from the dead. His righteous spirit did not die. The lamb was slain at the beginning of time when the earth was founded. If you can believe this, it blows a hole in that teaching. I leave you with something to pray about that teaching that says God knew that this was going to happen to man, so He slew the lamb from the foundation of the earth so that a provision could be made for us.

I have found scriptures that would indicate to me that God did not plan this. I do not understand it completely. We would say to ourselves, well surely God would have been able to prevent this. I really do not understand it completely, but I found a scripture in the Book of Zechariah. It is the chapter that talks about the four colored horses. We did that whole chapter, word for word, and we found out that it is the account of the fall of the living soul. Does anybody know what chapter that is in Zechariah? It is Zechariah, Chapter 6. I am sorry, we did not go through the whole chapter. We went through verse 8. This is speaking about what the angel of the Lord said. Verse 8; Then cried he upon me, and spake unto me, saying, Behold, these that go towards the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country. The north country typifies where Satan is. It is dark, and it is cold, and that could be established also by a study of the language.

Now you cannot hear it from this, but when we looked up every single word in the Hebrew, we found out that the angel of the Lord was saying, despite everything that has happened, despite the fall of the living soul, nevertheless, my Spirit shall prevail and rule and inhabit this creation. When I was doing the research, I sometimes go very deep into the Spirit, when I do this kind of research. I believe I was feeling the heart of God. As far as I am concerned, there was no way He could have planned this. There was hurt in the heart of God at the fall of His creation. I do not believe He planned it. He said, despite everything that has happened, I will have my original plan for this creation manifested in the earth, that the glory of God should be revealed through man. That is my opinion.

COMMENT: It is a bit confusing. It is like putting God on trial. God is supposed to be sovereign. When you say it like that, it means He does not know everything, like He was caught unaware. I know you did not say that, but that is what comes to one’s mind. It feels a little uncomfortable.

PASTOR VITALE: The only thing that I could say about that is that man was created with a free will. God does not intend to have a creation of robots. He did create a man with the potential to sin, and He commanded him, and He said, do not sin. The man did it, and humanity has been reaping what he has sown from that original transgression. But I cannot honestly say that God planned it. I honestly cannot say that.

What we are learning in this fallen condition is the benefit, amongst other things, of being obedient to God. You see, as I have told you in other meetings, man was very immature, and it was his imperfection that caused this fall, but there had to be something that we do not understand, that we have not discovered yet. God knew that if things went in such and such a way, it would have been possible to avoid the fall, but I do not have any information on it. Man was made with a free will, and Adam chose to disobey. If He did not make Adam with a free will, then we could not be the cherub that God imagined. Do you understand what I am saying? There was some element of free will. Otherwise God would have had a robot type creation. That is the only answer I have for you. You are free to disagree with me.

I believe God knew there was a possibility Adam would fall. I do not believe He was caught unawares. No, I do not believe that. God knows everything, from the end to the beginning. I do not believe He was caught unawares. I think He definitely knew there was a possibility, but even if He knew that it was sure to happen, that is not the same thing as saying God planned it. We really have to be very careful about that. To say that God planned this evil that has come upon men is doing what the friends of Job did, by speaking incorrectly about God. I think God takes that very seriously when men say things about Him that are not true. That, by the way, is a manifestation of pride, which is the root of all men’s problems. The bottom line is this, that man fell because of his own weakness. See God will test you. He will not tempt you.

Man must take the responsibility for the fall. We fell because we sinned. When Adam sinned it was a sovereign act of his will. He was not in our fallen condition. He had the strength to not do it. He was not overcome at the beginning. He was not overcome. He did something that he did not have to do. We must be very careful. This is very subtle. Do you hear what I am saying? It is the spirit that you say it in. Be careful that you do not condemn God, because if you condemn God, you pronounce yourself righteous, and that is the spirit of self-righteousness, which is pride, which is the enemy of the spiritual man. God is righteous. I may not have the answer for you. Maybe you are not satisfied by my answer. Maybe I do not have the right answer, but I know that God is righteous. Yes, God is righteous, and He does not tempt us. That is the Scripture. He tests us, but He does not tempt us to sin. He does not do it. He is righteous and we are not. That is the best I can say to you. Beware, because that pride is a very subtle spirit that would condemn God. It says we are in all of this trouble because God did it to us. If you listen to that teaching, that is what it is saying, and it is your own worst enemy because it is going to oppose the work of the Lord in you. It is going to oppose the bringing forth of Christ in you. It is a pharisaical spirit that is in the church, so you pray about that. If anything is going to destroy your spiritual life, it is that spirit of pride.

COMMENT: There is a scripture, 1 Timothy, Chapter 2:14, that says the man was not deceived, but the woman was deceived. Can you comment on that scripture?

PASTOR VITALE: Well, the man was not deceived. That is pretty much what I just said. Adam knew exactly what he was doing. He knew that he was disobeying God. He knew that it was sin. This condition of sex gets confusing. At the beginning of the creation he was not called a man. He was just called Adam. He became a man when God put the mind of Christ in him.

Our spiritual manhood is the mind which is in us, so the man was not deceived, meaning Christ was not deceived. The mind that was in the creation was not deceived, but the woman was deceived.

The man was the mind which was Christ. The woman was the living soul named Adam, who in relationship to that mind of Christ, was the woman. It was the flesh. Now remember, the creation was not joined. It was a living soul made out of the dust of the earth, just like we are now. Without Christ ruling us, we are capable of being deceived. I am trying to think of the right word to describe that creation. I do not want to say the humanity of it because it was not human at that time. That is the only way that I could express it. The woman, the creation, the soul was deceived. It was not the mind in it that was deceived, but this was such a glorious creation that, that part of the creation, which was not the mind, also had an ability to think.

Let me give you a natural example. It is like saying that our lower nature was deceived. Let us say that you are tempted to do something. Let us make it simple and say that you are having a problem with your weight. You love to eat, and you know that you should not eat a certain food, and you are convicted. Your mind knows that you should not eat this for whatever reason, but you do it anyway. You give in to your lower nature. The woman did it. That was the female part of you lusting for that food. It was not the righteous mind that was deceived. The reason it happened was that the mind of Christ said, do not do it, but did not give any explanation as to why not, or what would happen. It was that disobedience which separated the mind of Christ from the mind of the creation. The mind of the creation had a mind of its own. The mind in the creation was Satan. That mind in the creation was supposed to be in submission to the mind of Christ. When it did its own thing, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil separated from the tree of life. That was the fall of the creation. Christ knew what would happen, but the mind of the creation did not know what the results would be.

Let me start again. I think you were in the meeting when I talked about the Hebrew word translated die. If you eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall surely die. Then the Serpent repeated it, and said, you shall not surely die. This word repeated die are two different Hebrew words. God said to Adam, you will become mortal, and the Serpent, which is the mind of the creation, said you will not cease to exist. So the mind of Christ was not deceived. He knew everything that was going on, but the mind of the creation was deceived. I am having trouble getting this out. Let me pray for a minute. Father, help me get this out please. Thank you Jesus. Thank you Jesus. (Tongues)

This is all I can give you. When the mind of Christ was ruling over the creation, he was male, and he was not deceived, when Adam yielded to his lower nature, he became female. Maybe you were in the meeting when I said this is very subtle. When Adam yielded to his lower nature, whoever has authority over you is a male to you. Were you in there for that teaching? When Adam yielded to his lower nature, he became a woman in relationship to the Serpent. What that scripture is saying is that the second he departed from the instruction of Christ in his understanding, he then became vulnerable. He became a woman, and he was deceived. That is what he is saying. We depart from the wisdom of God, and you become a woman. Why would you depart from the wisdom of God? It is because of lust. There was something in this that we really cannot see, that must have really been desirable unto him, something that he really wanted. The second he yielded to it, he became a woman. Then the Scripture says you will receive a delusion. At the point that he was a man, he had the ability to say no, but he yielded to lust in himself, and the second he submitted to that Serpent, he became female. He received a delusion, and he went all the way, and he was deceived. That is what I have for you. Does that answer you?

COMMENT: I was looking at Eve as a separate person, a physical man and woman. That is where the question comes in.

PASTOR VITALE: It was not human marriage as we know it today, the submission of women to their husband, and that women should not preach, and things like that.

COMMENT: Timothy said that the man was not deceived. I was thinking that Eve was deceived, and then called unto Adam to also partake of her sin. I understand now, but if I was to discuss with someone, how would I tell them what you are saying. The person would probably say that physical Adam was not deceived, but Eve was.

PASTOR VITALE: What would you say? Well, you would say that at the beginning of time the mind in the creation was Christ. They are trying to relate that to a human marriage today, and that women should come under subjection. Is that what you are saying? I guess I am tired. If someone asks you this question, I would say they were not a physical man and woman back in the past, in the Garden of Eden. If you believe it, I would say that we did not look like we do now. These bodies that we are in are a manifestation of the fall, and that I have reason to believe that the creation was male and female. You might say, that before the flood there was a form of human being that was both male and female. What about Cain and Abel? I want to suggest to you that this whole Bible is a parable.

We discussed that Tuesday night at Brother Peter’s. I am going to talk to you plainly about this parable of Adam and Eve, and Cain and Abel. Cain and Abel was one entity. I do not know what they looked like. This birth was male and female. The male part of it was the mind of Christ, and the female part of it was the lower nature. The Scripture says that God received Abel’s sacrifice. It says He received of the fat of his flock. What that means is that Abel was sacrificing his lower nature unto God. Remember, I talked about that earlier today, that the true sacrifice, and the true laying down of your life for your friend is the denial of your humanity, which is selfish. In Abel’s sacrifice of the fat of his flock, he said I am not going to yield to this human nature, but I am going to serve God. He had his human nature under control. Then God spoke to the lower nature, which is female. He said to it, I will not take of the fruit of the ground. There is nothing that the earth can offer me that is acceptable unto me, so do what is required of you. Submit to the spiritual mind in you, and if you do not, sin is lying at the door, and this whole creation is going to get turned over to a mind which is sin.

I know this is all very deep teaching, and I do not have any easy answer for these people, except that I believe that the creation, at the beginning of time, did not look like we look. I also mentioned the other night that, that creation before the fall, was so glorious that it was vibrating with the life of God. When the mind of Christ died in it, there was still so much life in the earth from that energy source that was in it, that right after the fall, it was still glorious. There was so much life in the earth right after the death of the mind of Christ, that it could not have possibly looked like we look. We are fallen. We are vile. We do see the giants in the land. The giant Og was barren, and there was no Mrs. Giant around. It was just the single giant, so there are little bits of information, but the person has to be willing to pray about this. I cannot give you a scripture that says there was no physical man and no physical woman. I have no such scripture to give you. I can just give you these little teachings, and you have to pray about it, and get this revelation yourself.

You might be interested in understanding what God meant when He said He took him out of Adam’s rib, and made a woman out of it. It is too bad I do not have a chalk board here. At the beginning of time, the Scripture says that God breathe the breath of life into the man that He had formed. He breathed it into his nostrils. If you look up that Hebrew word that is translated nostrils, it does not mean the holes in your nose. I did this several years ago. I may not have the exact word. I think it is nostrils. We found out that what it really says is that God breathe into the sac. He breathe into the entire formation of the clay. Do you remember the teaching on the life of God penetrating the porous surface of the carnal mind? God breathe into the man, which was a sac of skin. It was porous. God is a Spirit. He hovered over him, and He breathe into him at every place of surface at the same place.

The spirit and the clay was all mixed in there together, spirit and dust, all mixed up together. Now it was God’s intention to put His son in this creation. The son of God is a what? Does anybody remember? Yes, a mind. You should move to New York. That was very good. We will put you on the message. (Laughter) The son of God is a mind. Now in order to make this creation capable of reproducing, He had to put a mechanism in it. This is all in the #18 series if you want this in-depth. He put the creation in such a condition that it would be capable of reproducing. Now using humanity as our example, so that we can understand, we know that a woman, to bear a child, must have a uterus and ovaries. Even though she is a woman, it does not mean that she can bear a child, if for some reason she does not have a uterus or ovaries. She needs an apparatus to deliver this child. So this creation had to have an apparatus, a specific apparatus within the hole that could produce the offspring of God.

That part of our humanity, which God is joining with, is spirit. He is Spirit, and He desires to join with our spirit. This apparatus that God made was of spirit. He drew all of the spirit in the man to one location. The Scripture says, and God took one of Adam’s ribs. If you look up that word in the Hebrew, the word translated rib, it means one of Adam’s sides. It can be translated rib, but the man did not have a rib in those days. He had two sides. Those two sides were dust and spirit. God took one of Adam’s ribs. He took the spirit that He already breathe into the creation. Now remember, He breathe the spirit into the creation, and it touched every cell of the creation, and imparted life to it. Then after it did its work, He withdrew the spirit, but the clay was still enlivened. The clay was still enlivened, so He took one of Adam’s side, and He gathered it into one place, and the Scripture says He formed the woman out of it.

I cannot recall looking that up in the Hebrew, but I know that it means the womb in the Greek; wow, man, womb of man. It even sounds good. He took that apparatus, which was capable of producing His son, and the Scripture says, He brought it unto the man. But if you look that word, unto, up in the Hebrew, it can also be translated into. He took out the spirit, formed it, and put it back inside the man in the form of an apparatus that would bring forth His son. That was what that was all about. The name of the womb is the human spirit. How do I know that? Eve is the mother of all living. Is not Eve the mother of all living? The Spirit of God was breathe into man, that was formed into such a formation as could join with the Spirit of God, and produce the offspring of God, which is a mind. That part in man, which plays that role, is called Eve, the mother of all living.

When He put the apparatus in the man, it was His life in a female form. Spiritually speaking, female typifies that which is weak, that which cannot exist by itself. He joined with her in a relationship. He did not penetrate her in a marital union and bring forth the child yet, but He joined with her in a relationship. The Scripture says He stood her up. It says He stood the man upright in the garden, therefore imparting a mind of Christ to the man that was only temporary. I lost my whole train of thought. What was I getting at? Do you remember? I did it and explained it then. That is what Eve is. She is the mother of all living. She is that potential in humanity to bring forth Christ, because we are not alive. We are dead. The Scriptural definition of death is separation from God. The human race, in this hour, is separated from God. We are dead. The condition of our mind is death. Everything about us is death.

Eve is the mother of the living one. She is the mother of Christ. You might get some person to say to you, maybe it was her seed that brought forth Jesus at the fullness of time. See, you cannot argue with these kinds of things. All you can do is offer people the teaching, and if they receive it, they receive it. There is no way to prove it to you. I guess that is the best thing you could say, that Eve is the mother of all living, and we are not living. We are dead, so therefore how could she have been a physical woman, because everybody thinks she was a physical woman that produced this fallen creation. Also, you read in Genesis, right after the fall, Chapter 4:1; And Adam knew Eve, his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain. All that I could say to you beyond that is that it was a higher form of the creation. Adam and Eve were one entity, and the offspring that she brought forth, Cain and Abel, was one entity.

When Cain slew Abel, what that means is that the carnal mind slew the mind of Christ. This is the understanding of the blood of righteous Abel coming up from underneath, or crying out from the ground. Christ was tread under the carnal mind, buried underground. Then God gave Eve another seed, and she brought forth Seth. Seth also had the mind of Christ and the carnal mind, but Seth managed to live out just short of a thousand years, keeping the mind of Christ predominant. We see that Seth had a descendant up through Noah, that succeeded in living out of Christ, even though he had a carnal mind. It was after the flood, when Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth fell down. Up until two thousand years ago anyway, we had no one in the earth who was living out of the mind of Christ predominately.

COMMENT: The carnal mind and all that, did these things really happen physically or did they happen, and were they just like symbols to this?

PASTOR VITALE: You are talking about the creation. I see. I do not think they looked like us. As far as the account of Adam and Eve, I believe that is a parable. I believe it is an allegory.

Paul clearly states in the book of Galatians that these things, and even the true history is an allegory for spiritual things. I believe the account of Adam and Eve is definitely an allegory. I do not believe there was a physical man and woman. Cain and Abel is definitely an allegory about what happened to the creation. I have no idea what it looked like in those days. I believe that Seth existed. At some point they started to look like the giants. We know that there were giants. They are in the Bible. Who are the giants? What better explanation for the giants? They were carry overs of this superior type being that existed before the fall. We are told that Og of Bashan was the last of the giants, and he was barren. It does not say anything about a female giant. If there was no Mrs. Giant, what difference would it make if he was barren or he was fertile? I just realized that you were not at these other meetings.

What I am suggesting to you is that the giants that we read about in the book of Genesis, are carry overs from the type of man that we saw before the flood. They say he was very large, and we know he was male because Goliath was a warrior. I believe that the giants reproduced by some form of cell division. I do not know what they looked like. I get carnal every once in a while. I said the giants must have been female because they had to have an apparatus to pass the baby out of them. After I put it in the message, the Lord corrected me, and He said no. It was just my carnal mind. They reproduced by some form of cell division. They were a superior being. The way we reproduce is a manifestation of the curse. This is how fallen man reproduces. When man is in heaven, there is no marrying or giving in marriage, if there is any reproduction after this. I do not know, but back at the beginning of time, it was a form of cell division.

Let me tell you this also. The natural types that we have for spiritual life is plant life. Just let me give you an obvious example. In animal life the color green means disease. It means sickness. It means green mold; do not eat the food. It means danger, to stay away. In plant life, the color green means life. It means vibrancy. So we are the planting of the Lord, and if we are looking for examples of spiritual life, we should look at plant life, and not at animal life. Do you understand what I am saying? In the plant world, there are many kinds of plants that reproduce from within themselves. They bring forth the male spore and they bring forth the female spore, and they reproduce from within themselves. If you could just understand that whenever we are dependent upon somebody else, it is not an ideal condition. For a woman to need a man to impregnate her, it is not an ideal condition. See, we have a perversion in the United States today. Relationships between men and women are not too good these days. We have a lot of women that do not want to put up with the distress of having to engage in a relationship with a man. Some of them are going to sperm banks and being artificially inseminated, and are raising their children deliberately without a father. There are others that are just going out, and fornicating, with the deliberate attempt to get pregnant. Now that is not normal. My whole point to you is that to have any desire which is dependent upon another human being is not an ideal situation. Anything that is not ideal cannot be eternal.

Am I losing everybody or is it just me because I am tired? I feel like I am losing everybody. Life down here on this realm is less than ideal. It is not perfect. Perfect reproduction cannot have a dependency on somebody else. Can you understand that? Praise God. There is just something in my heart, but it is just not coming out. Just give me a second. I believe this form of reproduction that existed before the flood, the whole creation, was in a higher form. That was because it was invigorated in every cell of its existence from the presence of the mind of Christ before it died. This condition that we are in now, as beautiful as it could be, because God has really blessed you with a beautiful husband. Compared to life in the high realms of the Spirit, what we have down here is not ideal. Can you hear that? You see, the Lord is not intending to disillusion us, but in order for us to desire that which is above, He has to show us how He sees what we have now. It is not His intention to make us discontent with what we have now, but we will never desire it if we cannot see that there is something better. When that which is perfect has come, that which is imperfect will be swallowed up by that which is perfect.

COMMENT: For Cain and Abel to reproduce, where did they get their wives?

PASTOR VITALE: That is a good point that you could make also. There were no wives. I know I have it in one of my messages. It is probably on that Noah series where the names of the wives are not mentioned until Abraham. Abraham is the first man whose wife is named in the Scripture. Prior to that they named just the man. Why is there no name given to her? It is because she was within them. That is a good proof of that.

In case you want to know why we are told the names of Cain’s wives, it is because Cain was sent out of the garden, and he fell rapidly. So there were two lines. There was the line of Cain, which was probably wiped out completely in the flood, if you read the scriptures in Genesis 4 where Cain is put out of the garden. We see starting with verse 16 it says; And Cain went down from the presence of the Lord. He started to fall. In verse 17, he knew his wife, and she conceived. It still does not name his wife in verse 17. Now we hear the name of a wife down in verse 19; And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. Is that, the fourth generation down? Cain knew his wife and he builded a city, and his son was Enoch. It is about the fourth or fifth generation down. We found the same study in Genesis 10 when we followed the generations after Shem, Ham, and Japheth. It was approximately the fifth generation after Shem, Ham, and Japheth that we found an indication that humanity broke down into male and female. Do you understand what I am saying, that the line of Cain broke down after four generations, but the line of Seth stood strong, and there is no mention of the names of the wives of Seth’s descendants until Abraham, even on the ark. It says Noah and his wife, and Shem, Ham, and Japheth, and their wives, but there is no name. I am suggesting to you it was just the four of them on the ark with their wives within them.

COMMENT: Right from the beginning, it says Eve was taken from Adam. Does that not show that there was one body and two in the one body? God took the rib from Adam. Would that not indicate that it was just one and not two? This was not physical, actually.

PASTOR VITALE: Well, the problem is that the people think that God took the rib out and it stayed out. That is the problem. What we are trying to say here is that taking out of the rib was the formation of the apparatus, which when formed, was put back inside of the man. The superior man, even the fallen being, which was still superior because it was still invigorated from the life of God that was within it, was still reproducing from within itself in a superior form up until approximately five generations after Shem, Ham, and Japheth, with the exception of the descendants of Cain, which was another line.

See, the line of Seth was righteous. Right up unto Noah there was always at least one descendant of Seth in the earth that was succeeding in living out of his mind of Christ, and keeping his carnal mind underfoot. They lived to almost a thousand years, and there was no falling out into male and female bodies. We found out in the Noah message that Noah, Shem, and Japheth fell prey to their carnal minds, and therefore the mind of Christ was tread underfoot. In the instance of Ham, Ham was still living out of the Christ mind, but he could not overcome the curse of his father upon him. It cast him down into the depths of witchcraft. A parent’s curse upon his children are very, very powerful. I just give you as an example Jacob’s prophesy over his twelve sons. It is very powerful. Whether your father blesses you, or curses you, it can make you or break you, like when Noah cursed Ham.

You see, Ham was living out of Christ, but it was a precarious situation. He could lose his position, just as the Christ in the original creation lost his position. His father’s curse was probably a shock to him. It probably wounded him, so he lost his hold, and then he just went tumbling down. We are the descendants of Shem, Ham, and Japheth in the world today. Ham was the last righteous one. Ham went down against his will. Noah, Shem, and Japheth gave themselves over to Satan. Ham went down fighting every step of the way, but it was too strong for him, and he went down.

COMMENT: I was trying to remember if there is a place in the New Testament that actually talks about eight people being saved after the flood.

PASTOR VITALE: It says eight souls. It does not say eight people. I believe that is still consistent with what I am saying, that there were four superior beings, each one possessing two souls. I think it is reasonably consistent.

COMMENT: I am talking about the father cursing the children, and its effect. Of course it is not according to God’s will. Supposing a child is doing something a father believes is not in accordance with God’s will, and the father, out of an unselfish root, pronounces a curse on the child. What happens?

PASTOR VITALE: Outside of Christ, that curse can destroy the child, unless that child comes into Christ. All of this is reversed in Christ. A father, in our fallen condition, has the power to really damage his son with that curse. The only reversal of it is for that son, by the grace of God, to receive an anointing from God that will overcome it.

COMMENT: What if a Muslim curses his child because the child is a Christian? Does it hurt him?

PASTOR VITALE: The answer is no. It can be overcome, but I want to make it very clear to you that this overcoming is not automatic. You have to go before God, and petition Him to break that curse that your father has put on you. It is not taught actively in the United States. I do not know about here. In Christ, you most certainly have the power to break their curse, and go on with God, but it has to be broken. You have to go before God. Depending upon your particular condition, you may have to have some elders pray over you. I do not know. Everyone has to petition God for what they need. There is no reason to be afraid. It definitely can be overcome in Christ, but most of the time you have to do something. You cannot be passive. You have to go and get prayer for it, and then you just go on with God.

Our deliverance from the curse is in Christ. There is not any curse that cannot be broken if we have truly given our heart over to the Lord. If He is truly the Lord of our life, every curse can be overcome, but it is a battle. To think that because I say Jesus is my Lord and Savior, that that curse is overcome, the person could be deceiving themselves. God could do anything He wants, but if you do that, if you say Jesus is my Lord and Savior, and five years later you look at your life, and it does not look like that curse is broken, you had better get to someone who has authority to break that curse over you. Do you understand what I am saying? We have to be very careful not to get into religious spirits here. Do you have that in Nigeria, that people tell you that from the minute you say I receive Jesus, everything is broken? Do you have that problem here? Well, if it works for you, that is fine, but if it does not work for you, the person who teaches that is very likely to say to you, well, there must be something wrong with you. No, you have to get to someone that is going to break the curse on you.

COMMENT: A couple of brothers came up to this ministry. They talked about God leading them into the need for us Africans to break down a lot of curses. They held a lot of sessions whereby we had to be breaking curses over our ancestors, going back a couple of generations. I remember at that time the people in the church were telling the people that you do not have any curses on you. I personally went for prayer in that ministry to break curses.

PASTOR VITALE: You had better believe there are curses. I had a lot of curses on me when I came to the Lord. Many times I read through Deuteronomy 28 and I would read these manifestations of the curse, and I would say that is in my life. Everything that I recognized that was in my life, I would cry out to God. I would say, Lord, that manifestation of the curse, it is in my life. Forgive my ancestors, forgive me, whatever we did, forgive us. Just break this curse in my life. It was a warfare. It was an overcoming battle getting the curses broken in my life. Some people have heavier curses than others. You have to be realistic about it. If the curse is on you, you had better do what you have to do to get it off. You are only deceiving yourself to say I am not cursed. Who are you deceiving?

COMMENT: When I was pregnant, I had this revelation that there was something being passed from my grandfather or something to the firstborn. I was very upset and angry in this dream. The last born of my grandfather, my father’s youngest brother, said I had given it to my baby when she was born. I see this temper manifesting in my uncles, and it is very bad in my family. I ask you to pray for me because I see these curses in my linage. I see my daughter is fearful and manifests a bad temper like her uncles.

PASTOR VITALE: Let me give you a definition of the curse. The curse is a spiritual bondage that locks you into a certain kind of behavior. It is not the behavior. A curse, for example, would be a spiritual chain on someone who would prevent them from ever overcoming temper, but the curse is not the temper. We find that when the curse is broken, then we must seek the deliverance and the healing in the personality, which is manifesting as temper. Do you understand what I said?

Some people, no matter how hard they try, they can fast and they can pray, and they do all kinds of things, and they have no victory over a problem in their heart. That is the operation of a curse. If you have done everything you know how to do, and there is no improvement, most likely it is a curse. Once the curse is broken, you must engage in the warfare to overcome this ungodly behavior. You should be seeing victory. I am going to be very honest with you here today. There is something in my heart that I do not know the answer to. I am going to tell you what it is because I have to know the answer myself. I spent five years casting out demons. I had them cast out of me. I cast them out of hundreds of people. Now God has brought me into what I call a new order ministry, where I am ministering out of the Christ in me. I no longer have an anointing to cast demons out unless the Spirit of God specifically comes upon me, and says, do you see that one daughter. Lay hands on her, or them, because I am going to cast a demon out of them. I have had people come to me. They talk to me of problems like this. They tell me they need deliverance, and I pray for them, and I have no anointing to cast out the demon.

Now this is my predicament. I do not know what to tell you. I am asking God to give me the answer. What do I do? Do I send someone like you to a deliverance preacher, who does not teach any of this deep doctrine, who believes in the rapture? Do I send you back to them to get a demon cast out of you, or do I tell you to just believe that if you need a demon cast out of you, God will anoint someone to do it? I do not know what to tell you. I am being perfectly honest with you. I do not know what to tell you. I do not have any anointing to cast out demons, except on specific occasions when God tells me to do it.

There are two things that you asked me. If you break the curse on your daughter, Has your husband broken the curse on your daughter? Very good. The father has authority over the child that the mother does not have. Okay. It is important that your husband does it. The fact that you see fear and temper, does not mean that the curse is not broken. It means that now the curse is broken, and you are free to begin the procedure which will deliver you from fear and temper. In the old order deliverance church, they tell you to come up, and we will cast the thing out, and it will be all over. But that has not been my experience recently. My experience has been you must resist the devil, and he will flee from you. This is what I think. I think this is what God is showing me. From the time that Christ begins to be formed in you, God is no longer running to cast this thing out of you, because now that Christ is being formed in you, He wants you to take authority over it. When you feel the fear in your heart, or the temper, He wants you to cry out to Jesus for the strength to overcome it. It is a rebellion of your carnal mind against the authority of Christ in you. He wants you to cry out to God, and say, Father, give me dominion over this, and to put down insurrection.

You have spiritual authority over your daughter. Whether or not demons come out like this, or they are coming out with a different manifestation, I do not know. He has not answered me, and I am very frustrated. Do you understand what I am saying? People come to me with problems, and I pray for them, and there is no manifestation. I see in the Spirit when I pray for people. I prayed for someone yesterday who really needed deliverance. This man really needed deliverance, and I prayed for him, and there was no manifestation at all. But I saw a vision, and I saw him piercing through. It was like what you would think Jesus would look like coming up out of the water. He just went shooting up. I do not know what is about to happen in his life. I do not know if God will direct him to someone who can cast out demons, or whether they are going to come out by the power of God. I do not know what to tell you. Do you understand that it is an overcoming? It is an overcoming. The curse is different from the behavior. When you see temper in your daughter, you rebuke it. You do not have to verbalize it because you do not want to frighten her. You can do it silently. You rebuke that thing. Is it temper or is it just fear? Yes, well you can just silently say, I rebuke you, and if there is anything left of that family line curse, I break you. Any demon, in there, you come out, and you come under the authority of Christ in me. You will see that temper tantrum go right down.

From the moment that Christ begins to be formed in us, we engage in the warfare that is known as Armageddon. We are engaged in an active warfare to overcome our carnal mind. Before Christ is formed in us, we do not have the weapons, so a merciful God sends this deliverance to us. Yet we see an abuse of this in the United States, which I do not want to inflict on anybody. We see ministers of the kingdom putting condemnation on the people because they desire deliverance. I am trying to be so careful not to do that. I would give it to you if I had it. I cannot give you what I do not have. In our group in the United States, I let the other members of the group do that form of deliverance. If they feel that they need it, I let them do it. I have no anointing for it. I will pretty much stand off on the side, and the Lord will give me, from time to time, spiritual ministry. I will have a word of knowledge that will bring forth the deliverance, but I cannot do it that old way anymore.

Although, as we were telling Sister Margaret and Sister Edith, we have had over the past four years some deliverance manifestations. Recently, we had two violent manifestations, where my neighbor called the police because a woman was screaming at the top of her lungs. It does not happen too often. All that I could say is that we should remain open to it. If the Lord brings forth the deliverance, we should yield to it. If the Lord does not bring forth the deliverance, then you have to ask God whether or not to go to a deliverance minister. I would not tell you not to do it. Although, as I am talking to you about this, the feeling in my heart is to enter into the warfare. As long as you know in your heart, that you are open to having a demon cast out, and that you are not prejudiced about having a demon, I would not tell you not to go back. I would not take that responsibility, but the feeling in my heart is that if you are entering into this warfare, you should not have to go. If you ever have that feeling to go, do not let anything that I have said to you prevent you from going. Do you understand that? It really is not completely settled in my heart, and I would not want to be a source of hurting you in any way. You start fighting that battle. This is Armageddon. That is what it is all about. Amen.

COMMENT: Looking at Genesis 3 from verse 20, the curses that the Lord pronounced on the Serpent and then on Eve, and then on Adam. To Eve in verse 16 increased great pain in pregnancy, and desire to thy husband and he will dominate you. You say these are parables. What is the spiritual interpretation of these curses, and the situation after man had fallen, that Eve is the mother of all living? You said that we are all dead, but the scripture says Eve is the mother of all living. How do you reconcile?

PASTOR VITALE: The human spirit, Eve, is involved in all forms of life. When she is joined with the Father, she produces the life of Christ. When she joined with Satan, she produced the death of this existence, but God only acknowledges the living. He said, I am the God of the living. I am not the God of the dead. He is the Father of all spirits. The only thing I could tell you is that Adam is acknowledging that she will take a part in bringing forth the Christ, just as we see in the prophesy further up in verse 15. Between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head and thou shalt bruise his heel. That is speaking about the Christ which will be coming forth from humanity. Eve is the mother of the Christ, and she is therefore the mother of everyone in whom the mind of Christ is dwelling. Then of course, we see a perversion of that in the Catholic Church, where they say Mary is the mother of God. Mary is not the mother of God, but she is the mother of the natural man, Jesus, but the human spirit is the mother of the mind of Christ, that has come forth in him. That is just what God is emphasizing. That is all that I could tell you. I wish I had all the answers, but I do not.

Did that satisfy you, at least? Okay.

COMMENT: How do you relate the curses? Some of the curses relate to Adam and some to Eve. How would you explain that in plain language?

PASTOR VITALE: It is getting harder and harder to use plain language. (Laughter) The problem at the beginning of time was that the creation was not joined. It really was in separate parts, but it was a superior creation. Our lesser example of it is to say that our mind consists of id, the ego, and the super ego. But the creation was on such a higher level than we are now, that God addressed individually the id, and the ego, and the super ego. They were way greater than we are. They were so much higher than we are that it was a creation that was capable of incest within itself. That is what happened. When Satan rose up and joined with Eve, it was the original act of incest that came from within. I cannot even imagine how that could happen, but the creation was far superior to what we are today. So God addressed each element of the creation. We are limited now, because we really cannot comprehend at this moment what that creation was. I do not know about you, but I really cannot comprehend it.

God did say to this element of the creation, this is what is going to happen to you. I do not know how much you have heard about this. He spoke to that part of the creation, which was the Serpent, the lower nature. He said to the Serpent, you are cursed, because you have done this, because you have incested this creation, and taken on the male role. We originally said that the whole creation was female in relationship to God, therefore every part of the creation, except the mind of Christ, was female. That makes the Serpent female. Nevertheless, she rose up and took on a male role. That makes her a lesbian, the original lesbian. In this early time of the creation, this lesbian, who committed the first act of incest, had the authority to impregnate the creation. We know that lesbians today do not have the authority to impregnate. It was a spiritual creation.

Everything like that is happening in our society today, every perversion, every act of homosexuality. I am told you do not have much homosexuality here. It is becoming a big problem in the United States. Every act of perversion, every act of incest, every act of homosexuality is a playing out of this original sin that happened in the past. This whole world is a movie projection camera, and we are programmed to continue to play out the original sin of our ancestor. We are trapped in this role, where we just keep on repeating the sin that happened at the beginning of time. We keep committing incest, and the farther that the society falls from God, the greater the increase of homosexuality, the greater the increase of all of the sins that happened in the garden. That is what is happening today. God addressed the Serpent, which was the lower nature. We might call it the libido or the id, that area of the human mind, which is subject to raging passions. It needs to be restrained.

He said, you are cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field, and upon your belly you shall go. That Hebrew word translated belly, if you look it up in the Hebrew, it is a word that would indicate the outer realms. For all intents and purposes, the Lord turned the creation inside out. I mentioned that the other night. I said, that if you cut yourself, that which is inside comes out. This creation has been turned inside out, therefore we are subject to infection, and we are subject to every affliction, because that which is supposed to be inside and under the protection of the Christ, is outside. That which is outside does not have the authority to protect us. That is why we are in this condition. We are pulled inside out. That is what this means, you will go on your belly, and dust thou shalt eat all the days of thy life. It means that the creation in this form is going to be joined to the dust. We are not going to be drinking of the blood of Jesus or eating of his flesh. That is what the curse means, that the creation is coming down to the ground, and we are going to be carnal, and we are going to be in this outer realm, as far away from God as you can get. God is within, and we are all the way stuck out here in outer darkness.

That was what He said to the Serpent. You wanted to come out. You wanted to do what a man does. You wanted to have incest with this creation. You wanted to impregnate Eve. You want to be God, well, be god. All of the human beings that would be born, that were prepared to come forth, are subject to that curse. We all died in Adam. We are all in this condition. For all intents and purposes, the whole creation had been turned over to the Serpent. He fertilized her. He brought forth his offspring, and we found scriptures that say that God sold us unto him. When the creation committed this sin, God said to us, go with your husband. Your desire shall be unto your husband. Satan has become the husband of the creation. God is saying that is part of the curse, that you are going to be craving carnal things, and you are going to be craving that which your husband wants, which is evil. You are going to be trapped in this bondage to him. Because the Serpent became the man to the creation, the whole creation is reflecting him. The role of man is very significant. It affects everything that it touches.

The woman, spiritually speaking, has no identity. She is a reflection of her husband, spiritually speaking. It used to be that way traditionally. Things are changing in this modern world, but spiritually it is still the same. The woman is a reflection of her husband. Our whole creation is a reflection of the Serpent, and we are all experiencing the curse that God placed upon the father that brought us forth in this condition. So for all the days of this existence, he is going to eat dust. He is going to be continuously interacting with the dust of the earth with no spiritual life. I will put enmity between thee and the woman. Who is the woman? The woman was the creation. Remember, the Serpent rose up, took the role of the man, and made the creation the woman. Are we not at enmity with our own unconscious mind? Even if you are not a Christian you have to do this. Do we not have to resist our own unconscious mind continuously, or we would be destroyed.

Every society knows that. It does not matter what religion you are, you must resist your basic nature, or you will be destroyed. That is what that means, I will put enmity between you and the woman. It is talking about God’s wife. You wanted her, and now you got her, but I am going to put enmity between you. I will put enmity between thy seed and her seed. Well, who is the seed of the Serpent? The seed of the Serpent is the carnal mind. The offspring of the Serpent is the carnal mind. There will be enmity between the carnal mind, and man, who is trying to survive this condition. And it shall bruise thy head. The seed of the woman, which is Christ, is going to bruise the head of the carnal mind. That is what this is all about. Romans 16:20; Shortly, the God of peace will bruise Satan under your feet. That is what this is all about. It is the bruising of Satan under our feet, the resurrection of the dead.

Everything in this Bible has existed for thousands of years. It is all summing up into this warfare, which is going to put the carnal mind under the feet of Christ in us. That is the bottom line. I am not spiritualizing this. It really happened. Did I make that clear? That is really the curse, and the curse is being played out in the natural every day. We are at enmity with our unconscious mind. Did I answer your question? The curse is fulfilled on every level.

COMMENT: Verse 23 and verse 25 of Genesis 3. The Lord God put him out of the Garden of Eden to cultivate the ground. Now you talked about the cultivation of the ground. I forgot how you put it, but you said God made him to keep the garden. Here the Lord is saying he put him out of the garden, and not to cultivate it anymore. How do you reconcile?

PASTOR VITALE: Before the fall, every need was provided to Adam without labor. I do not know how it happened. I do not know whether food was brought to him, or whether he did not need food. I do not know. But now after the curse he would have to labor for his food. That is the cultivation. I believe that Adam, after the fall, must have done some kind of farming. I have not prayed about that. Am I answering your question?

Probably what you want to hear is this. I do not recall what the Hebrew word for cultivate means.

The English word cultivate means to bring a garden into submission; to cultivate it, to make something positive to grow there, to rip out the weeds. What He was saying to Adam is, if you want good fruit to grow in the garden of your soul, you are going to have to cultivate it. You are going to have to work to keep the demons out of your soul. You are going to have to work to keep the curses out of your soul. You are going to have to labor to lead any kind of a righteous life. Now originally God did not say cultivate the garden to Adam. He said guard the garden. Do not let the Serpent plant his seed there. Adam had that dominion. Now God is saying the weeds are already growing in your garden, and now you are going to have to labor to keep control. I know I labor a spiritual labor all the time to keep the weeds out of my spiritual garden. Did I answer your question? It does say dress in the King James Bible, but if you look that up in the Hebrew, it means to guard it or keep it. There are two different words. We will look at the scripture you are referring to.

Genesis 3:24; Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother. So he drove out the man; and He placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which burned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. KJV                                            

The Garden of Eden is a spiritual place. It is Christ. It is the spiritual realm of Christ. We have the Cherubim, which typifies the ultimate creation as a quickening spirit. God placed at the gate of the Garden of Eden a Cherubim, which is Christ, and the flaming sword, which is the Spirit of Christ. To get back into the Garden of Eden, we have to pass through Christ. Another way of saying that is we have to be cast into the lake of fire, because no sin will enter into Eden. To get back into the garden, first of all we have to get the garden inside of us. Then we have to come out of our union with Satan and the carnal mind, and pass through the fire, which is judgment. We have been talking about judgment since I have been here, which is the purification. When we return to Eden, we will not be in the same condition that we were in at the beginning of time. We touched on this lightly.

At the beginning of time, it was the age of innocence. Adam was righteous, because he was innocent. When we return, we will be righteous because we have overcome evil. It will be a righteousness that we will not be able to lose. You see, before we fell, we did not have to pass through the Cherubim and the flaming sword to get into the garden. God just put us there, but now that we fell, we have to be purified to get back in. Did I answer your question? You people have some good questions. You are giving me a run for my money. (Laughter) I am glad that I can answer most of them.

COMMENT: What is your teaching taken from these scriptures?

Isaiah 14:12-15

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. KJV

COMMENT: This teaching has been around for a long time in this country. This scripture speaks of the devil, and that he was once an angelic Cherub that was with God, and probably he was leading the choir. (Laughter) The congregation is laughing also. He could sing very well, and he was the most beautiful creature that God created. Somewhere along the line, because he was next to God, pride came into his heart, and he told the angels within that loop, I want to place myself in God’s place, and have all worship to come to him. Somehow God was not around, and he told the angels to side with him. There was a fight in heaven, and God now cast down Satan to the earth. What is your study on this part of Scripture?

PASTOR VITALE: I have about 12 messages on this. I did all this word for word. Sister Margaret has the messages if you want to borrow them from her. This concept of casting down one third of the angels is taken by someone’s carnal mind, who has put this verse together with a couple of verses from Revelation 12. There is no basis for it at all. We have a word by word study of Isaiah 14 and we have a word by word study of those verses in Revelation 12. There is absolutely no connection whatsoever, that he took a third of the angels down with him.

You want to know about Ezekiel, Chapter 28. I believe you want to know who I think this is. I believe, as I also said about Ezekiel, Chapter 38, that it was righteous Adam. You see, Adam can either be righteous or unrighteous. When he is righteous, he is manifesting all the glory of God. He is a Cherub, and he has all these jewels on him. When his mind dies to righteousness, and becomes unrighteous, his name changes to Satan. God changed his name to Satan. When the mind in the creation was righteous it was called Christ. You see, there is a creation. It could be either righteous or unrighteous. When it is righteous, its name is Christ. When it is unrighteous, it gets another name. We can call it unrighteousness. We can call it death. Sometimes God calls it Satan. He was righteous Adam, and he got a thought in his heart that he could be God, and he was going to fertilize the creation instead of God. He got cast down to the sides of the pit, which is where we are. We are in the pit. It is called hell. That is where we are. We cannot see the sides because they are too far away. Did I answer your question? It is the devil, but man is the devil, you see. Man is the devil. I think right in that chapter of Ezekiel 28, God is indicting him, and He is says you are a man.

See, the message is very clear. It is the pride of man that cannot receive the message that man is the devil. What is the difference between the devil and Satan? When Satan is expressed through the mind of a man, he is known as the carnal mind. Satan is the unconscious mind of man, and Satan, in the form of the conscious mind becomes the devil. They are inseparable, but there is a subtle difference between the conscious mind and the unconscious mind. We do not have any problem with that. We have known that man has a mind that has at least two parts. He has more than two parts. We know there is a conscious mind and an unconscious mind; Satan and the devil. Satan is the unconscious mind. He is functioning right now as a spirit. He is an illegal inferior spirit. The devil is really another name for the carnal mind. He is the fallen conscious mind of man. He is the devil. Did not Jesus say, when he was referring to the twelve, one of you is a devil. What did he mean? He meant that one of you is a carnal man. One of you is not living out of Christ. That is what he meant.

The devil is a man. It is us. God wants to raise us back up. You see, every glory that is described in Isaiah 14, God wants to restore us to that plus more. Well, the glory would be the same, but it will be permanent. He wants to give it back to us, but before He can give it back to us, we have to admit that we were him, and that we sinned. Getting back to something else we touched on today, is that God did not sin against us. God did not make us in such a way that this would happen to us. We fell down here because of sin. It is necessary to confess that before we are raised back up again. If you say that God planned the whole thing, that we would wind up down here, then how could you say there is sin? I do not know if you have heard it in Nigeria, but it is really strong in the United States that there is no sin. Man never sinned. There was no fall, and therefore there is no judgment for sin. It is real strong in the United States that there is no sin.

If we say that God planned it that we should be down here, then it is a denial of sin. There is no resurrection without the judgment for sin. So if you have not sinned, there cannot be any judgment for sin. You really have a problem. How are we going to get back up there again? You say, you just sit here and listen to a message, and one day you will wake up, and you will be up there. No, it is not true. It is not true. We must admit that we have sinned, that our ancestors sinned, and that we sinned, and that we do sin, because we are not capable of being sinless. This is a requirement for the resurrection, and this is the word of the hour. God wants to resurrect us from the dead, but we must confess our sins, and confess that He is righteous, and we are down here because of something that we did. He did not put us down here. I guess what is coming forth now must be a response to what happened earlier. This is an important issue.

COMMENT: What does it mean that the creation was subjected to something, but not willingly?

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, the creation was subjected to vanity, but not willingly. To be honest with you, I have not discussed it because I never studied it. An answer did pop into my head. I will give it to you, because I believe it was the Lord. Another thought that comes to me, Coyote, is that we, who are down here today, did not choose this for ourselves. Our original ancestor chose it, so we have not sinned after the similitude of Adam, but we have sinned. I think that is an even more complete answer.

12/27/14 Transcibed by MJS

12/28/14 1st Edit MJS

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Pastor Vitale's Bio

Sheila R. Vitale is the founding teacher and pastor of Living Epistles Ministries and Christ-Centered Kabbalah. In that capacity, she expounds upon the Torah (Scripture) and teaches Scripture through a unique Judeo-Christian lens.

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