249 - 1 Part

The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For
Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By
 The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.


OK, we will interpret this dream. We will try to interpret this dream that was just passed by to me. A lion jumped on the scene, roaring and looking around. Coals of fire were being thrown down from the altar of God. A brain mind -- the person who had this vision could not tell whether it was a brain or a mind, or it looked like both -- caught on fire and was being burnt up. Grass and a skeletal figure appeared on the surface of the brain mind and was also being burnt up. A vine of flowers started growing, dropped seeds [AUDIO CUTS OUT] [?fire?]. The seeds did not burn up. The brain mind that was on fire became a sun and rose in the night sky, and stars then appeared.

Well, what are lions in the Scripture? Anybody want to -- let us try and make this a group effort. What do lions typify in the Scripture, anybody?








Spirit. Lion typifies spirit. It typifies power, strength, dominion but in the form of spirit, so when we find a lion in the Scripture, we have to find out whether it is a good lion or it is a bad lion. OK, and the name of the good lion is --


Jesus, Lion of Judah, and the name of the bad lion is --


-- Satan, amen. Spiritual is spiritual. We see the same symbols applying to any spirit, negative or positive. They are typified, consistently. If the vision or the Scripture is of God, they are typified consistently by the same symbol, and the [AUDIO CUTS OUT] find out whether that symbol is negative or positive is how? Anybody remember? We read the surrou- -- what?

            Just before and after it to see [CROSSTALK]

OK. We look for either modifying words or modifying phrases or modifying sentences that [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- as we read the surrounding words and verses, there are clues as to whether the symbol is negative or positive. So we have a lion; we have a spiritual force here, and he jumped on the scene, roaring and looking around. Now we know that the Scripture says that your adversary, the devil, goes about seeking -- how does he go? Roaring like a lion, seeking to devour you. So we know that the lion which is Satan roars, and I do not really know if there is any Scripture about Jesus roaring, but I have had a spiritual experience with Jesus roaring, so I know personally that He roars because I heard Him roar through me, and He really did.


Believe it or not, He really did, you see. When I got out of the hospital, I used to preach -- we did not have this table over here. The little white -- I have a white table in my office with the printer on it. It was set up right over here, and I used to preach from behind that table. And after He decided to keep my body alive so that He can use it for His purposes, when I returned to the house after three months and five days in the hospital, one of the first things that I did, and I was fully aware that it was Him doing it through me, I just sat down in that chair behind that table, and my back went very erect. And I heard Him roaring, and I knew that it was a roar of dominion and that all of the work and effort that He put into raising me up as a vessel through which He could express Himself had been -- had received mercy for His specific purposes and that it was a roar of victory and that He had prevailed over the curses in my life that were killing me, for His own purposes. He is the only one that counts, brethren. None of us is worth being kept alive except for His purposes. We are all -- are under the condemnation of death, and we all deserve it.

So a lion jumped on the scene, roaring and looking around, so we still do not know who this lion is. We just know it is a spiritual force. Coals of fire are being thrown down from the altar of God. Well, I am just going to -- I could be picky, and I could say which god, you know, because the way this vision is written, it does not say from the altar of Jehovah, so we know that there are many gods. Satan is the god of this world, and Jehovah never said that He was the only God. He said that He was the greatest amongst all of the gods. Jesus never said He was the only king. He said He was the king of kings. Neither did He say He was the only Lord, but He said He was the Lord over all of the lords.

So we find many gods in this world, but because I believe that this vision is from the Lord, I am just going to -- not going to pick at this. I am going to say that this is the altar of our God. Jesus Christ is our altar, so God then must be Jehovah. The altar of the living God, Jehovah, is the Lord Jesus Christ. There is a Scripture in the New Testament. I think it is in the Book of Hebrews that says that Jesus Christ is our altar. And what do we do with an altar? We offer sacrifices unto God on the altar. And what is our sacrifice? What is the only acceptable sacrifice unto God?


Our own carnal mind, not the other guy's carnal mind, OK. Our carnal mind is the only acceptable sacrifice to God from us, OK. And when one of us tries to sacrifice somebody else's carnal mind to get ourselves off of the hook, to the Lord Jesus Christ it is a what? It is an abomination unto the Lord. It is a manifestation of pride, and God deliberately hates it. So if you are guilty, brethren, confess your sins, and put your own carnal mind on the altar, and let it be consumed by the fire of God, that you might live and not die. Do not try to put my carnal mind on the altar because God is going after you. You cannot fool Him, and He does not like it.

So we have an altar here. We have the Father, and we have the Lord Jesus Christ, who is the altar, and we have coals on the altar. Now coals are symbols for the sons of God. If you do -- you can go into any encyclopedia in any library and do an investigation on coal, and you will find out that coal is a product of com- -- of minerals which has been compressed over millions of years. It is a fossil fuel. It is old bones and skeletal structures compressed under great pressure. I -- it could be thousands, but I believe over millions of years, OK. And coals burn, and they take a very long time to consume, and I believe that they are types of the sons of God. The Spirit which has been in the Earth, traveling through the many generations, over all these millions of years are being compressed; they are having experiences in many different personalities. And by the time the Spirit, which is in the Earth, which is Christ, matures, He is typified by lumps of coal, very old fossil structures which are compressed and condensed, all of the experiences that Christ has had in the Earth over all these generations, and they are capable of a slow-burning.

And I do not have any Scripture for you, but actually I heard that teaching from another preacher, and I received it. You do not have to believe it if you do not want to, but I believe what we have here is God, the Father. The altar is the Lord Jesus Christ, and the burning coals are the sons of God. So we have three generations here, the Father; the first generation of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ; and the second generation of sons, the coals, and they are all really together.

And the coals were cast down. Well, you can -- I do have one Scripture for you. The Lord is reminding me. In the Book of Isaiah, hot coals were used to purify his tongue, so I do have a Scripture for you that coals are a purifying force, if that helps you. And the coals were cast down. Now the sons of God are being cast down. They are being cast down, we are told here, from the altar of God, so the altar is Jesus Christ. The -- so we are being cast down from Jesus Christ. And where is Jesus Christ in this hour? He is in heaven, so the coals are coming down from heaven. So if they are coming down from heaven, where are they going to?

            The Earth.

The Earth, and the sons of God are being cast upon the Earth. In other Scriptures they are typified as hailstones, OK. The sons of God are judgment unto this hellish world system in which we live. Hot coals, purification, the purifying force of God in a substantive form, not pure spirit; they have substance to them. You can s- -- coal can be seen. It can be held. It can be felt. It has form and shape. It has substance to it. So we are talking about a purifying force sent from God that is not pure spirit. We are talking about the purifying force of God in men being sent down from heaven into the Earth, and when the purifying force of the Lord Jesus Christ contacts the earth, chaos will break lose because sin cannot stand in the presence of a holy God. And we have the presence of a holy God already in the process of descending upon the Earth in the form of human beings right now, in perfect human beings, but the day is coming very shortly where there will be a company of perfected human beings in which the holiness and the righteousness of God is dwelling and appearing.

And, brethren, even when you meet a son who is not in full stature -- and what is the name of the son that is not yet in perfection? What is he called?


He is a member of the two-witness company. When he becomes perfect, he becomes a son of God, but there are people in the Earth today who are not perfect but in whom, nevertheless, the righteousness of Christ is manifesting in some measure and in some degree. And when you come nose-to-nose with one of those persons and they are manifesting righteousness to you and you are manifesting sin to them, you will be burnt, but you will not be destroyed. Your sin will be burnt up, and Christ will begin to appear in you.

So I see this symbol as a message from God to the church and the world. The sons of God are coming. Do not think that you can hide any longer because God will tolerate sin only as long as it takes Him to raise up His vessel of purification. He is only winking at sin for a season while He raises up His sons and while He puts His plan of purification, resurrection, deliverance out of this horrible condition into effect.

A brain mind caught on fire and was being burnt up. Well, I think, the reason it appears as a brain mind, it is -- I think, that is just a way of indicating that a mind functions like a physical brain, OK. The physical brain is an organ, OK, that has an effect on the physical body. The mind -- OK, the brain is the physical type of what the mind does in the spirit. The brain is the controller of the physical body, and the mind is the controller of the spiritual being. And the truth is whatever your spiritual being is, that is what your physical body is, so the mind controls the organic brain. I do not have any problem with that. Spirit controls sou- -- manifests through soul, controlling it and then controls the physical body.

Everything you do originates with a thought from a spirit in your mind. No matter how automatic it seems to you, everything you do originates with a spirit in your mind. The problem is we were born with a carnal mind, and we have been living with it for so many years that we think it is our idea. We think that everything we do is our idea. Everything we do is not our idea. We are under complete control of the spirit that has rule over our person. The problem is we are so joined to him, we cannot tell the difference between he and ourselves.

The way the Scripture expresses it is that we are so joined to Satan in our spiritual being in this hour that we are like a garment which has been dyed. It is impossible to separate the dye from the garment, but with Christ all things are possible. That is how joined we are to Satan, and that is why we think we are our own person, and we have trouble believing that he is living through us, but the separation is coming.

So we have a brain mind. I suggest to you it is the carnal mind. And the coals fell upon the carnal mind, and it caught fire, and that is a very scriptural symbol. The apostle Peter tells us that the elements shall melt, and I suggest to you that the elements that Peter is speaking about are the three elements which comprise the carnal mind. The carnal mind is made up of, somebody?






And their offspring, the carnal mind, and the whole three of them go by the name carnal mind. It is just like a man marries a woman; she takes his name. His name is Mr. X. She becomes Mrs. X, and they have 10 kids, and the whole group is known as the X Family, OK. Well, the carnal mind takes the name of the whole group, the carnal mind family. God, help us.

So the carnal mind caught on fire, thanks be to Jesus. Let it burn, and it was being burnt up. Grass and a skeletal figure appeared on the surface of the brain. Now it is a physical principle, anyone that has studied science will tell you nothing in this -- not only this world but this whole universe is so completely destroyed that it ceases to exist. What happens to anything is that it -- the most radical change that can happen to anything is that it will change forms so radically that you will not be able to recognize it. But the elements, the atoms that everything is made of, cannot be destroyed; they just change form. And we know from our scientific studies that the one element that is used most of the time to change the form of an object is what? What is the element that has -- that its overriding quality is that it has the authority to change the form of an existing structure? What is the element? Is it water? Can water --     


Fire. Whatever it touches, it burns it up. If it would burn this chair up, you would have ashes, and you would have gases released, so this chair w- -- cannot be destroyed. It changes form, and this is a big mystery because the Scripture uses the word destroyed a lot. And I had someone studying with me here once. He got so upset he left my house because I told him Satan is not being destroyed. His form is being changed. H- -- and he says but there it says -- you know, the Pharisees says, there it says the Bible says destroyed. I know the Bible says destroyed, but what does it mean by that word? You think that that word destroyed means to cease to exist and to have no other form come out of you, to just disappear, puff, but that is not what the word means. The word means destroyed as we know it. If I put a torch to this chair, it would be destroyed as we know it. It would now be gases and ashes. The chair is destroyed, but the atoms which it is made out of cannot be destroyed.

So we see the carnal mind burning, and the fact that it is burning and that it is burnt up indicates that it is ceasing to exist in its present form. The carnal mind is ceasing to exist in its present form. It is being altered. Science calls it the transmutation of matter, the breaking down of something into its basic building blocks and the reformation of them. Now when we burn something, the natural result, we have no control over it. It is a physical law of this world system. When you burn something, it is reduced to gas and residue, a material substance that you can see and feel and touch.

But there is a potential in man, and I -- witchc- -- workers of witchcraft are already practicing it, to transmute matter, to have the authority in my mind to say I look at that fan, and I command it to break down into its basic billing -- building blocks and reform into a furnace, by the spiritual power of the mind. They do it, and they are already doing it in witchcraft, but we are talking about it today, human beings temporarily taking the form of an animal or a tree. This is called the transmutation of matter. It is having spiritual authority over the physical elements of this world.

Now, brethren, God said to man, have dominion. We are supposed to have dominion over everything in this world, but somehow something went wrong. The world has dominion over us. Ticks bite us; we get Lyme disease, and we die. Mosquitoes bite us; we get malaria, and sometimes we die, or we are tortured for the rest of our life. We walk barefoot through the park, and we get poison ivy. We are afraid of bees. We are like elephants running from a mouse. Brethren, these things ought not to be, and the reason we are in this vile condition is because of?


Sin. We have lost our dominion because of sin. So the carnal mind is burning up, but that which it is constructed of shall not cease to exist. See, even back in Genesis where you read, the Father said to Adam, if you eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, you shall surely die, and then a little further down, you see the serpent saying to Eve, did the Lord not say you shall surely not die? The -- there are two different Hebrew words translated die. That is not the same Hebrew word. The Lord said to Adam, if you eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, you shall cease to be immortal. You shall lose your dominion over this world system, and it shall have dominion over you.

What do you think Cain was talking about when he was cast out of the garden and he said to the Lord, everyone that seeth me will slay me? What was he talking about? He was talking about the mosquitoes and the bees and the ticks and the lions and the tigers and whatever spiritual pestilence was out there at that time. I am just making a point. Do not, anybody, please, challenge me and say there were no bees and ticks at that time. There probably were not. I am making a point. Whatever was out there, Cain knew, had the authority to kill him.

So the carnal mind is burning up -- oh, well, let me finish that teaching. And then when the serpent repeated God's words, he used a different Hebrew word. He said, thou shalt surely not cease to exist. See, he told the truth to Eve. He said you are not going to cease -- you are not going to stop existing. God never said that they would cease to exist. He merely said your form would change, and your glorious body would become a vile body, and your relationship to the environment that I placed you in would be reversed. You are on top, and the environment was underneath you. You are going down, and the environment is coming up on top of you. And the ones who served you, you shall serve. And the ones who feared you, you shall fear. That was what God said to him.

So we see the carnal mind burning up. That means it is changing form. It is breaking down into Satan, Eve, and that which was the offspring of Satan and Eve was breaking down. Eve is spirit. Satan is really soul, and their child is being dissolved. That which is of spirit is returning to the mother, Eve. That which is soul is returning to the father, Satan, and the carnal mind will cease to exist. That product of the joining of Eve and Satan will cease to exist, but Eve and Satan, that which was originally of the creation, will not cease to exist. And we see a reformation taking place. The spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ will be joining with the human spirit, whose name is Eve, and bringing forth His Son, Christ Jesus, and Satan will be forced down under the authority.

Now, brethren, Satan typifies the environment, the bees and the ticks and the poison ivy. This is all an expression of Satan. Plants that kill, insects that kill, this is all a physical expression of Satan. The spirit, the invisible spirit of Satan, is being expressed in this physical world. Satan has taken dominion over the creation. I just explained it to you. We flipped; we are underneath. Jesus said you will be the head and not the tail. You will be the lender and not the borrower, but that is a promise, has not happened yet, brethren. We are on the bottom, let me tell you.

All of us, every human being alive except the Lord Jesus Christ, we need someone to give to us. We need something outside of ourselves to exist. We are dependent. We are not a fruit-bearing tree with the seed within itself. The Lord Jesus Christ is totally independent. He needs nothing from anybody, and if you heard that lie that we are here so that He can fellowship with us, you received a lie. He does not need anything from us. He could burn us up in a second and raise up some other vessels to manifest through. We need Him; He does not need us.

So when the carnal mind burns up, and this is expressed in the Scripture by the Scripture which says, "And He shall separate the soul from the spirit and the joints from the marrow." It is the breaking down of your carnal mind, which is freeing up our human spirit so that the Lord Jesus Christ can join with her, bring forth His Son, Christ. And as we bring forth His Son, or as the Lord brings forth His Son in our mind, we shall be saved as that child is born in our mind, that holy child, Jesus. Is it Jesus? That holy child. It does not -- I do not think it says Jesus. Does anybody know? That holy child.


That holy child, Jesus. OK, He is spirit form now, OK. He is in spirit form now in us. So this carnal mind is burning up. Another expression of it in the Scripture we find in the Old Testament, Moses seeing a bush that burns but is not consumed. Brethren, when the Spirit of God abides with us for the life of the ages, when He joins with us, when the fire of God joins with us, everything that is sin will be burnt up, and everything in us which is spirit, which is our only true substance and essence, shall abide. And we shall be that burning bush, which shall abide -- we are told in the Book of Isaiah. A question is asked. Who shall abide with, excuse me, everlasting burnings? Who shall be able to bear it to live for the life of the ages with everlasting burnings? Only the ones who have been purified by having their mind renewed. Only the men whose mind is now Christ will be able to abide for the life of the ages with the everlasting burnings. They are not burnings of torment; they are burnings of purification. They are burnings. They are fire running through our whole spiritual system which will keep us from ever sinning again.

So this carnal mind on fire, I see it from two aspects. It is breaking down the ungodly ties. What ungodly tie? Between Eve and Satan, which has produced the carnal mind. It is reordering that mind, and now it will be the Lord Jesus Christ bringing forth His Son, and the everlasting burnings are in Christ. That mind, that brain, is going to stay on fire for the life of the ages, but that bush, it will not be consumed. Our person, our humanity, that aspect of us which is human is typified by wood, it will not be consumed. The fire will protect us and purify us and keep us from sin because sin kills. Say no to sin.

So the mind caught on fire and was being burnt up, and grass and a skeletal figure appeared on the surface of the brain. So we see the brain appearing in another form. It does not look like a brain mind anymore. Now it looks like grass and a skeletal figure. Skeleton is made of bone. Bone typifies what in the Scripture?


Spirit, OK. And I suggest to you that this is the bones of Christ reforming. Now I just told you about it. The carnal mind is breaking down. The Lord Jesus Christ is joining with our human spirit and bringing forth Christ Jesus in the mind of the individual, OK. Christ is not divided. When this procedure is completed, there will only be one Christ in the earth, the Lord's Christ. And part of Him -- or a drop of Him is in you, and a drop of Him is in you, and a drop of Him is in you. It is a mystery. In the natural, we are separate, but in the realm of the spirit, we are one skeleton, Christ. And the grass typs- -- does anybody know what the grass typifies?


Well, it typifies life. What kind of life?




Yeah. The people, they are as grass, we are told. I believe it is in the Psalms. The people, they are as grass. It is speaking about the soul life, which is -- it is speaking about the existence of the soul, which has received the life of the skeleton known as Christ. And when this -- if this spirit that raised Christ from the dead dwells in you, He will give life to your soul. He will quicken your mortal body. He will give life to your soul. So the skeleton, the bones of Christ, rose from the dead. I will remind you of the prophet, Ezekiel, of his encounter with the Lord. And the Lord said, Ezekiel, prophesy to those bones. First, he said, can those bones live again? And the prophet, Ezekiel said, huh? What do you want from me, Lord? What do I know? And the Lord says, can they live again? Ezekiel says, leave me alone. I am just a man. And the Lord said, prophesy to those bones, Ezekiel. Oh, bones, live again. Let Christ be formed in the Earth again. Spirit is skeleton. Grass, the soul life which has received life from the bones of Christ, so we had a carnal mind, and now we have the mind of Christ.

Hallelujah. Today's vision, you get this when you are washing your dishes? When do you get these visions?

            I got that [INAUDIBLE]

Oh, OK. You get these. You get a lot of these. I hope I did not offend you with that joke.

            Oh, no.

Now do you get them when you wash the dishes or only when you are praying?

            No, only when I am praying.

When you are praying. That is really nice. I am in a funny mood tonight. Forgive me. God speaks to me in the strangest places.

            I [?had?have?] no idea [INAUDIBLE]

OK. I did not offend you, did I? OK. So the skeletal figure appeared in the -- on the surface of the brain mind and was also being burnt up. The mind caught fire and was being burnt up. The grass and the skeletal figure appeared on the surface of the brain mind and was also being burnt up. So this, again, it is the manifestation of the burning bush. It was being burnt up, but it was not consumed, you see. The carnal mind was consumed. Christ is not consumed. Christ is the consuming fire. Christ is the consumer. You see, when the Scripture says thou shall be the lender and not the borrower, it is not just speaking about money. What it is really -- the deep spiritual truth of it is that Christ is a positive force which is on the offensive, continuously on the offensive.

Brethren, when you are on the offensive, that attitude of mind is a wall that, depending on how strong you are, can be impenetrable. That is the whole principle behind karate. Get mad [?at them?enough?], yell, shout, scream, be threatening, be frightening. And if the other person is not of a condition where he knows how to combat that, he is so busy trying to defend himself against you that whatever skills he has to fight you does not -- do not even come up to the forefront, you see. To be the lender means to be of a spiritual nature that is a blowtorch. You are going out. There is no opening for you to receive anything from anyone else. There is no opening in you to receive a spiritual missile from another spirit. They cannot get through the fire. They cannot get through the momentum of the spiritual power that it is giving out.

To be the borrower means to be negative. That means everything that comes your way penetrates your soul. You know, we have people like this in this world. They are subject to every spiritual missile that comes their way. I have had -- I get a lot of people in that condition. That is one of the specialties, if you will, of this ministry, and they ha- -- they say to me, how did I get like this? How come everything that flies in the air can get through to me? Because your spiritual walls are down, brethren. You are not a positive force. I do not meant to insult anybody. Truth is going to set you free. In Christ, if you are presently a negative force, that can be reversed. It is not going to be reversed unless you admit that that is your condition.

You are a le- -- you are a borrower and not a lender. What does that mean? It means a borrower receives. Everything flying around in the realm of the spirit, you receive it. It finds a place in you. How did you get like that? Family line curses. Who cursed you, the witch down the street? No, the Lord cursed you. No witch can do that to you. Satan himself cannot do that to you. Only the Lord can do that to you, and why would the Lord do [AUDIO CUTS OUT] on your soul that says it is OK for you to get it. Got to be an opening, brethren.

I had a woman that came to this ministry. She was at a barbecue with 400 people. She was the only one that got bit by a Lyme's disease tick, and she came in here, and she said it to me, "Sheila, I am the only one that got bit by a Lyme's disease tick." She had an open door, and the open door is sin which has resulted in a curse from God which has torn down your defenses. Why? So that you will die. Repent, and He will give you another chance. We are all under judgment of death. Some individuals are a little more advanced than others. I am telling you the truth. Do not you tell me that Satan has the power to do anything to you without God's permission. Do not give me that story because you have got the wrong person. God is in control of this whole creation, and I heard Him say to Satan, touch him, but do not kill him. That is what my Bible says. And when the day that the Lord says kill him, brethren, there is no doctor that can keep you alive; there is no worker of witchcraft that can keep you alive; there is no herbalist that can keep you alive. You will go into the hospital for a hangnail, and you will come -- and you will not come out.

So the mind caught fire and was being burnt up. Grass and a skeletal figure appeared on the surface of the brain. Now check that out. On the surface, the elements of the carnal mind were still underneath. Christ was on the surface. Christ was on top. Satan was forced to the bottom. That is what the Tribulation is. We talked about that last night. Satan, who has dominion over this world, is being forced down underneath the authority of Christ. She is on the bottom. That is where she is supposed to be. Right now she is on the top. She is perverse.

A vine of flowers started growing. OK, who is the vine? He is the true vine, OK. So if there is a true vine, there must be a false vine, so we have to find out whether this vine is a true vine, Jesus, or the false vine. So the vine had flowers on it, started growing. Now, flowers; those of you that have gardened know that your plant cannot produce any fruit without flowers. You have to have a flower before you get a fruit, and the fruit of the spirit is? Who is the fruit of the spirit?


Christ is the fruit of the spirit. So what is the flower that comes before the fruit appears? What is the flower of the spirit? What?

            The Holy Ghost.

The Holy Ghost is the flower. So it is possible, you see, for the true vine to be growing in you without having flowered yet, you see. If you ever wondered about Christians, like Baptists, for example, who do not have any signs of the Holy Ghost; they do not have any signs of the gift, and there is a big controversy amongst some Pharisees. Are they really saved, or are they not really saved? Can you be saved without the Holy Ghost? You can have the vine without having a flower on it. You can have a vine with a flower without having any fruit on it, and you can have a vine with a flower and a fruit on it, and you are still not saved until the fruit gets inside of you and you become one with the fruit.

OK, so vine, flowers started growing. Jesus appeared and the mind of Christ. The mind of Christ is spirit, OK. The vine is in the soulish realm, and I know that a mind is invisible. A vine you can see. We are getting into the soul realm. And it dropped seeds into the fire. So the seed, who is the seed?


Jesus, is the seed, and the seeds dropped into the fire, I guess, of the burning mind. I am not really sure what that means, but the seeds did not burn up. Hmm, the brain mind that was on fire became a sun and rose in the night sky. I do not know really want to take too much time because we are on a message. Offhand, I really do not know what the seeds coming out of the vine -- Jesus is the vine, so the seeds would be the second generation of Christ, I guess, and they dropped into the fire and did not burn up. I gue- -- well, off the top of my head, I would say that is the joining of the two generations of Christ. We are all becoming one, the Father, Jehovah; the Lord Jesus Christ; our unconscious mind; and the second generation of Christ, our consciousness which is in Christ Jesus. OK, they all became one, probably means full stature.

And the brain mind that was on fire became a son. Well, we know that Jesus is the Son [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- well, actually, it is Christ Jesus in us is [AUDIO CUTS OUT]

            Could the sun be the light?

Well, the sun is the light, but I do not understand how that would fit into this. Can you -- I am not sure what you are saying.

            Well, the light, meaning Christ.

That is Christ arising. Right, that is Christ Jesus arising. That is true. And it arose in the night sky, and the night sky is this world system, which is a world of darkness. Christ arose, a light shone in the darkness, we are told in John 1. A light shone in the darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not. Did you always think that that meant that the darkness did not recognize it? It is not what it means. Look it up in the Greek. What it means is that the light arose in the darkness, and the darkness did not swallow up the light. The darkness could not blot out the light, did not mix with it and dissolve it so that it disappeared. The light remains separate and apart and visible from the darkness.

And we have a natural example of that, and that is the Jewish nation. They are a phenomenon. They are the only nation known to history that lost their geographical land, that was scattered across the world and never lost their national identity. It has not happened with any other people. So they were scattered into the darkness of this world, but the darkness of this world did not swallow them up, so they are a natural example, yeah.

And in the same manner, as Christ appears in the darkness of our minds, our carnal mind will not be able to swallow Him up, even when He is in seed form. No matter how weak He is, the darkness of our mind or the darkness of someone else's mind will not be able to swallow Him up. The only thing that could cause us to lose Him is willful, premeditated sin on our part. That does not mean being overcome by a sin that you are trying to resist but the making of a willful decision. I want to do that thing. I know what the consequences are. I know that I could lose Christ, and I do not care. I want it so bad that I do not care about anything. Now who in the Scripture did something like that? Hmm?


Oh, Saul. Well, that is true. [UNINTELLIGIBLE] what I -- who I had in mind was Esau. He sold his heritage for food, for physical pleasure. Actually, Saul did it out of anxiety. Saul did it out of fear, was almost pitiful, but Esau, he just sold his birthright because he was hungry. And, of course, that account in the Scripture indicates that he was hungry for food, but as we apply this principle to our life, we see many believers selling their heritage, giving up Christ for any form of physical satisfaction. It does not have to be physical food, something that they want. They will sell everything of Christ to get it.

Some of them, the Lord lets them do it, and He lets them God. And others, the Lord will not let you do it. He will break your legs before He will let you do it, and it all depends on the call on your life. If you were called before you were born, if in fact you were born because the Lord called you into this world, there is nothing that you can do to sell your heritage for anything. You are going to find yourself nose-to-nose with the angel of the Lord, like Balaam did. There is no place you can run when the Lord says that you are His.

So the mind became a sun, Christ Jesus, and rose in the night sky of the Hell of this world system, and stars appeared. And the stars typify the spiritual offspring of Abraham, yeah, the sons of God, yeah. So that is really nice. Pretty much every vision that you get, it is just the message of God's plan in a variety of ways. That is very nice. The Lord is proclaiming His message through you. That is very exciting.

God's plan for mankind, the plan of His salvation, the plan of His deliverance, and it is radically different than what you have heard, that we are going to fly away and walk on streets of gold, and everyone is going to get their own mansion and an Italian dinner. I do not know where they get this from, but this is God's plan for mankind. He is saving us from the inside out. He is saving our spirit first, then our soul, and then He is dealing with our body. We are being converted. We are being changed, and that change is painful. The name of the process is called what?


Well, that is the end of it.


Tribulation, yeah. The crucifixion is the end of it. That is the death of the carnal mind. And the fact of the matter is that we are the Lord's wife. We are His property. We belong to Him, and He wants us back, and He wants us back cleaned up, and He is just going to have His way. Glory to God.

Well, I was going to try to preach -- continue with this other message again. I did not -- I could not preach it last night, and since we have alrea- -- I am already preaching 45 minutes on this vision, I just feel to open the floor to questions. The Lord may be cancelling my message again, so I am open to Him. Does anybody have any questions or comments on any subject at all? And we will just see where this meeting goes. You have something?

            A question. I think it is just that as you were reading the dream or vision -- was it a vision? I was getting the same thing, so I was really pleased to hear you confirming.

You were getting what?

            The same answers that you were saying [CROSSTALK]

Oh yeah, praise the Lord. That is wonderful. Celia has really worked for this. This woman has really worked.


Yeah, that is wonderful, delighted to hear it, that she is reaping what she sowed. She sowed lots of time and effort and sincerity, and the Lord is really coming through.

[AUDIO CUTS OUT] [INAUDIBLE] the existing church world is waxing old. You see, in order to stop aging, Christ has to appear in us, so the church world is aging because, despite all of her statements that she is Christ, she -- her people are still dying. Her people are still aging. Her people are still sick. Her people still have all kinds of problems, so her words are empty because she does not have the goods --

[AUDIO CUTS OUT]  [?despite?] all of her excuses for not producing the Christ child [AUDIO CUTS OUT] is dying, and we know that it is a simultaneous occurrence, that Christ is arising in the vessels that He is arising in over here, and over here the church world, in whom He is not appearing, is coming down, and somewhere they are going to pass each other in the night. And the existing church, which has not produced the fruit which gives life, is going to dry up and pass away [INAUDIBLE]. That was what I just saw in the spirit was -- the word was, "And she shall become old overnight," so I do not know whether I -- the Lord was speaking to me about an individual or about the whole church world, or it could be both. I do not know.

And let me remind you that when a word like this comes forth, do not assume that it is coming to pass tomorrow or next week or next month. It could take several years to p- -- it could happen tomorrow, but it could also take several years, so do not lose discourage and [?maybe?] think that it was a false -- or do not be discouraged and think it was a false prophecy. A wise thing to do when a word like this comes forth is always to say, Lord, when is this going to happen? Or if you hear a time period, which I did not this time -- for example, if the Lord says in six months, you have to say, Lord, six months from when? It is very important because I have really suffered in my emotions until I learned that lesson. Thinking -- I suffered thinking that I receive a false prophecy and was just tormented in my mind because I was so sure that it was God, until He taught me that it was a true word, but I did not know enough to say to Him, Lord [INAUDIBLE] -- three months from when? The Lord told me, in three months, such-and-such will happen, but it did not come to pass for two years because it was three months from a particular event in my life, which did not occur for two years. We have to understand this thing.

This principle is very evident in the Book of Daniel where it says that this going to happen. From the building of the temple, there is going to be so many weeks for this to happen. You have to say, from when, Lord? Do not assume that it is from the giving of the prophecy because assumption is going to destroy your spiritual life. God does not assume anything. He is exact. Yeah?

            Sheila, when you got that word that she shall grow old overnight, I got the word Ichabod as you spoke it.

Yeah, OK. Want to tell everybody what Ichabod means, for the people who do not know?

            What Ichabod means, it means the church or whatever God's speaking of will be dead; it will be closed up; it will die.

It means the spirit of the Lord is leaving.

            Is departing.

The spirit of the Lord is withdrawing from that area.

            So that was the word I got.


            And before that I was seeing a linen -- or a black -- I -- a black linen, completely covered over, like in grieving [?courts?], and I thought that to be the church grieving --

Yeah, I am inclined -- I am sorry.      

            [CROSSTALK] spirit of the God departing.

Yeah. I am inclined to believe it is the whole professing church in this hour, and I think the Scripture is clear, that the church will reach a crossroads where she will either go on with God, or she will lose what she has. It is script- -- that is a scripturally sound statement. Did Jesus not say in the parable of the talents, take the talent away from the wicked servant who did not use it to improve his life, and give it to the ones who have 10? Is that not the Scripture? The Holy Spirit is the seed of God. Brethren, seeds are designed to bring forth fruit. There is no salvation in a seed. There is salvation in the fruit, which is Christ. So to every believer who has received the seed within themselves, the Holy Ghost, but in whom that seed has not brought forth fruit, that believer will lose what they had, the Holy Ghost.

I am telling you all the truth. You are going to see it. You are going to see it real soon. There is going to be wailing and gnashing of teeth because not only are they not flying away to heaven with streets of gold, they are losing what they have got. That is a tragedy because they have been taught wrong. Well, on the other hand, everybody is not -- I say this to you boldly. Everybody whose relationship is truly with Jesus, not with their pastor, not with their apostle, not with their own desire to be some great one in the church, but everybody who truly is seeking the Lord Jesus Christ will hear the truth because the Lord Jesus Christ will get you someplace where you will hear the truth. So everyone who is losing what they have got, it is true; the truth has not been preached to them. But just like I told you before, that Lyme's disease tick cannot kill you unless you have got an open door. You cannot be a believer who received the Holy Ghost and then who lost it because of your pastor. There had to be something lacking in you for this to happen to you.

Depends on who your god really is. If your god is your own self-preservation, you are going to lose it. If your god is your pastor, you are going to lose it. If your god is money, you are going to lose it. If you are god is your wife, you are going to lose it. If your god is your husband, you are going to lose it. There is only one who can save you, brethren, Christ. No one else can save you. He is the only savior of mankind. If your car is your savior, you are going to lose it. If your job is your savior, if your prestige is your savior, if your money is your savior, if your education is your savior, if your whole self-esteem is based on your accomplime- -- accomplishments in this world system, you are going to lose it because Paul said he counts all that stuff as what?


The only thing that can save us is spirit, and everything that you have accomplished in this world cannot save you. So, therefore, seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and everything that you need will be added unto you as the Spirit gives it to you. If you waste all your time pursuing after worldly things and you do not put the time and the effort into seeking the spiritual life of God, you are going to reap what you sow because what that means is that your god is what you are running after. You have to seek God with all your heart and your mind and your soul, and when you do that, He will take care of you. Jesus.

See, there are people that follow God because they want the healing. There are people who follow God because they want the blessings. There are people who follow God because they think if they tithe they are going to get rich. I want to tell you. You can put in 75 percent of your salary into the offering, and if your motive is because you think it is the off-track betting, you are not going to get anything. I know someone who did it. I know it was funny. It is OK if you laugh, but I know someone who did that. She came to this meeting for two years, and she put all kinds of money in that offering basket. And when she was not here, she was at the lottery. If she was not at the lottery, she was playing the numbers. Nothing came through, not even that money she put in the offering basket. I am telling you the truth. She lost almost everything she had. That woman had money. She does not have money today. She has got grief and heartache today.

Now that does not mean you should not make contributions as God leads you, but your motive has to be the love of God. Your motive has to be righteousness. See, under the Old Covenant, if you gave 10 or 20 percent of your earnings, no matter what condition your heart was in, you got blessed because the Old Covenant only required deeds. But under the New Covenant, God requires a conscience towards God. He requires mercy and righteousness in your inward parts. Your heart has to be right, and you are supposed to do whatever He tells you to do with regard to money and contributions, based on righteousness and direct communication from the Lord. And I -- it does not matter how much you put in there. If your heart is wrong, it is not going to do you one bit of good.



[UNINTELLIGIBLE] about those that are in the church and have the Holy Spirit, and if Christ is not formed in them, they will lose it. And I am not saying it was worries, but a sense came to me. It was like those that lost it became so violent towards those that have it that the fists were coming right up in their face [?and a real?], like, who -- almost like, who do you think you are? I have done such and such and such and such, and it was, like, real anger. I could not believe it.

Yeah. I believe that. I believe it is scriptural. I believe we read about that in the Book of Revelation. I believe that we see it in the church right now, that there are some people who are extremely jealous -- some believers who are extremely jealous of believers in whom Christ is appearing, OK. And that is scriptural. It happened to Joseph. His brothers were extremely envious of him, and wherever Joseph is appearing, there will be Pharisees who are envious of him. Now just be careful that you are not paranoid and that you think everybody is envious of you, but if someone is envious of you, they are envious of you. You have to deal with it in Christ. You forgive them. You pray for them. You ask God, if He is willing to do it, to give them just as much as He has given you, if not more. Let us get it straight. Let us get the truth. If it is true, it is true. Do not be a Pharisee and say it is not true, but if it is not true, do not say it is there. But I believe that is true, Celia. There is going to be great anger.


Yeah, I believe that.   

            Their faces [INAUDIBLE]

An impression, right?


Yeah. I believe that. There is going to be great anger amongst those who thought their position in the kingdom of God was assured because of some work, because they cast out demons or because they heal the sick or because they tithed or whatever. There is a lot of people. I heard someone say that, say I know I am OK; I cast out demons. I heard them say it. Brethren, there is only one thing that will assure your entering into the kingdom of God, and that is Christ in you, the hope of glory. He has got to be inside of you. You have got to bear the Christ child because He is the one that is going to save you. He is going to save your soul, and He is going to preserve your body, and there is no work that you could do that is going to save you. You had a vision.


-- exciting [CROSSTALK]

            But I do not know. This is -- this one is -- I do not know. This -- it is different.

Well, let us try it.

            [?I will just?] read it to you. All right, it is a full moon in the night sky, partly covered by clouds. The earth was shaking. It was an earthquake, and a flood of  water rushed in.

[?Of?A?] blood water?

            No, a flood --


-- of water rushed in. Then a body of calm water with sailboats on it and a body of green water appeared. There were old trees covered with vines. My mind's eye followed the path through the trees in this open field of golden wheat. The wheat was being harvested by tractors. There was a big barn house and bundles of wheat in the field. I do not know if this was my imagination or what, but there was angels with sickles in another field of grass or weeds. Suddenly, there appeared a dirt hill, and smoke came shooting out from over the top of the hill. Hands began to dig into the side of the hill, and it was digging up a coffin. There appeared a body of water like in the swamps, and coffins began to surface.

You have something to say?


Was it not a harvesting sickle? I thought you had said it was a harvesting sickle.



            [?I know?] what you are talking about because [INAUDIBLE] I know what you are talking about because earlier I was sitting here while Rita was playing, and I just felt real sad.


            Yeah, and I felt, you know, like I was trying to hold back tears or something like that. I am like -- you know, I was thinking, why am I sad? Why am I --

Well --

            I do not know.

So that is two witnesses to sadness, three witnesses.


Well, you know, there cannot be a birth without a death, you know. The old has to die so that the new could come in, and we have to be very careful to restrict our compassion to godly compassion and to restrict our sorrowing to godly sorrowing because we -- it is possible for us to be seduced into an ungodly mercy and compassion and sorrow which will drain us of our spiritual strength. Brethren, if God has determined a judgment upon somebody, that they have been cut out of the kingdom, or if God has judged to take someone's life, I am telling you, we have got to stop being babies about this. We are in the spiritual army. If God took them, He took them. Do not go walking around blubbering. You cannot be walking around blubbering. He was a wicked man. I am telling you the truth. Whoever --


            It amazed me tonight that the friend of the [?owner?] died, and you has a prophecy. It was really amazing. That really [?answered?] a lot [UNINTELLIGIBLE] [?never knew him?].

When was that?

            He died, when Jerry died.

Oh, when Jerry died.

            [CROSSTALK] that night, and that really has changed my whole outlook. Someone dies, they died. God has -- they have done their job --


            -- that they had to do.

They are not burning in Hell forever. We found that out, that that is a lie. I mean, I would not be really want -- I would not want to see Hitler being tormented forever, really. I would not, but they cease to exist. God took them. Do not walk around moaning and groaning. Go on with the living. You have to go on with the living. Let the b- -- let the dead bury their dead. You go on with Jesus.

            Is that what that was?

Your vision?

            No. [INAUDIBLE]

            Is that what that was, the sorrowful feeling?

I do not know what it was. I have not experienced it this night. I do not know. You see, those -- most -- somebody has died recently, you know. A 41-year-old man has died that some of us know, so I do not know whether it is -- I think the wake is tonight, so it could have been that. It could be a sorrowing for the church world. I really do not know, but I am going to tell you, Mary. You know, you can think anything. You are free to think anything you want about me, but I have no mercy over there at all, and that is the word in my heart. That was a judgment of God. I am not happy for it, but I am not walking around boo-hooing. And you can think whatever you want to think about me, you know. God did what He did, and He did it, and it is done. Well, what do you want from me?

            I had a question. I always wanted to know. I wanted to ask you a couple of weeks ago. People having these visions and dreams of when they come out of -- like, if they are in ER or something and they pass out and they go into emergency room, they are on their deathbed. They have this vision of going   down a tunnel, and there is a light at the end of this tunnel. This has been said for so many years now. So many years you hear it. You will hear it tomorrow if you turn on the TV maybe. What does this mean? Why do people have that same interpretation that when there is no heart pulse going, they declare you are dead. You come out of it. There is this vision of a tunnel, and some have said it is, like, slimy, wet, drippy and -- I have heard it said. But at the end,   there is this bright image, and once you get to the bottom of this tunnel, the light just disappears. So if you could help me understand this, it would be greatly appreciated.

Well, I really do not know. I just have -- I have some opinions on it, you know, but I really do not -- I will tell you what I think, you know. You can believe it or not believe it. I do not have any proof for you. It is just my --

            This is the first time I have ever [CROSSTALK]

Yeah, it is just my opinion that it is -- I do not believe it is an experience that happens in God, you know. I believe it is some form of illusion. It is -- I believe it is some form of illusion that we cannot understand spiritual things. So do you know what an illusion -- I am having trouble explaining this for some reason, that it -- well, one of the techniques of spirit is to give us an illusion. Like, it is like a picture that we are a part of. It would be like a moving picture that we are a part of because man cannot understand what it is like to die, so the spirit world, sort of, forms a moving picture and lets us enter into it and partake of it. That is why I really do not have any more information than that. I do not think it is of God. I know I did not explain it very well. I really do not know what else to say.

            Can you say what is of God? You know, it would be what, joy or hope?

No, I do not think --


-- any of that is of God, and I will tell you why because it is my understanding that the death of the body -- at the death of the body, the soul goes back to the group soul, and the spirit joins with Christ. There is no consciousness outside of this existence, OK. There is no consciousness; there is no experience; there is no feeling outside of this existence. So when your body dies and your being breaks down, there is no experience in it, no, OK.


Right. So because I believe that -- you know, and you do not have to believe it if you do not want to, but that is what I believe. I believe, these experiences that people have when they die for a minute or two is an illusion that is created by the carnal mind, yeah.


Do you have another question?

            I know how you feel, but I have read so many books and seen so many on television, some of them did not even know the Lord, and yet some of them did know the Lord but were not serving Him to best of their ability. Maybe they had prejudices and things, but their life was completely changed after they came back. So what would you say that is?

What I say about that is that it is an illusion. I am having some trouble. Lord, please help me to explain this. The Lord works -- the Lord meets us where we are, OK. And if He knows that this is the belief of man, OK, that -- I have heard of experiences of someone dying, and they -- a minister, and he went to heaven, and he saw the pearly gates and all of this thing. It is all a vision; it is an illusion that God lets us see because that is the only thing we can relate to. So you might call it a point of contact, OK, but I do not think it is a reality. But it is -- you know, it is not imp- -- I do not -- you can believe it or not. It is -- I have no expertise on it. It is just my opinion. If you do not want to believe it, that is fine with me, you know. But I would be interested in someone giving me an alternative to this, an alternative explanation. I have never heard any explanation that satisfied me from someone else. I am looking for information just like you are, you know.

So let me just say one more thing. So if the person d- -- has their whole life changed when they come back, OK, let us be careful not to draw any conclusions now. The fact that their whole life turned around does not meant that that experience came from God. God could have used it, you see. OK, this person could have come close to death. They experienced the illusion that the carnal mind projects, and God, for whatever His reason, brought them back and used that whole experience to convert their life. Did you not ever hear of somebody coming close to death and their whole life was radically changed? They almost -- someone almost lost a loved one, and their whole life was radically changed. Shocking experiences can turn your whole life around. It does not have to mean that the experience that you had was valid, does not have to mean that it was positive. It does not have to mean that God sent it to you. All that it means is that the shock of it turned your whole life around. The one thing does not necessarily connect to the other. You follow what I am saying?



            I think [INAUDIBLE] her father was a minister, and she died. She was having her baby, and then she got appendicitis, and the thing burst, and eventually she died. But while she was dead, the blanket was over her. The sheet was over her, and her father was praying by the bed, saying, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, but as she went through this light and whatever, she heard Jesus say to her, He said, I am giving you one more chance. You do not love the black people, and you do not know about love, but you came through. She saw the Venetian blinds, and then the Venetian blinds were raised with the sun coming through, and it said I am the resurrection and the light. And as she peered through it and the sheet was taken off of her, her father, she pulled the sheet of, and her father was sitting there. And what she saw through the blind was a m- -- black man bringing a carload of soda into the hospital, and she said an abundance of love went out for the very first time for the black people. So in her case, she was a  different person after this experience, so, I mean --

Yeah, all -- look, I do not claim any expertise in this at all, but I do stand by my opinion that the fact that she had a life-changing experience does not -- see, I have a very logical mind, OK. That is not enough, to me, to prove that what she saw was a reality. It is still [UNINTELLIGIBLE] what -- I still feel in my heart it was an illusion. If I am wrong, let God show it to me. It is nothing worth getting, you know, into any kind of a snit over, you know. That is how I feel about it.


OK. I -- just to clarify my opinion. I do not believe that there is any consciousness on the other side of the veil. That is what I am stating, yeah.

            I was just thinking of all the Scriptures. When a man dies, his thoughts perish, and the grave is no remembrance.

Yeah, we have a whole message on that. "Where Are You Going When You Die?" Is that not the name of the message?

            Yeah, it is.

Yeah. We have a whole message on that, yeah. All -- look, brethren, this whole creation is in the flesh. Everything God is doing is in the flesh. Hell is in the flesh; heaven is in the flesh; life is in the flesh; death is in the flesh. To leave the flesh is nonexistence. When you depart from the flesh, it is nonexistence. Yeah?


            Some person was saying that God has shown her the other side, and on the other side, the dead in Christ, they were not just -- they did -- they just were not laying there idle. They were working, and they are there to -- what did she say? I think, she said give us instructions, and we are to go to them, but we cannot go to them unless we are in the spirit. Does that sound --

This is very dangerous doctrine that is penetrating the parts of the kingdom church today. All I could tell us it is not true, and this is not my opinion. I am telling you watch your step because that is a lie, and that anyone that is into this is communicating with demons, and they are in great danger.

            It sounds like --


            -- communicating with the dead.


            And why would you have to communicate with the dead if you have --

No way because, first of all, one of the -- from what I have read about this teaching is that they are saying, well, now that we are in Christ over here, when the body dies we are not dead; we are alive. So there is existence on the other side. [AUDIO CUTS OUT] -ive, our body would not die. The only reason our body dies is because the spirit or the mind in us is dead. If our mind was alive, it would preserve our body, so the soul that sins dies. If your body dies, your soul dies. If your soul dies, your personality dies, and these people are communicating with demons. This whole element of the church has gone off on a radical tangent. They are lifted up in pride over this doctrine that is coming forth, and however far it is going to go, it is going to go. I cannot get aggravated over it. There was a time when I got aggravated over these things, and I felt a burden to save everybody. But I do not have any burden to save anybody because I can barely get myself through, and I cannot even get myself through, so I just do my part. I run this little ministry, and I teach, and I do what I have to do, and I leave everybody else to God. If He sends somebody to me, I will tell the truth.

I wrote that truth to a preacher in California, and he sent back a letter cursing me from here to [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- to Kentucky. And, you know -- and he told me that I was jealous that I have not had that experience, you know. This is getting to be a habit, people telling me I am jealous. If he wants to have that experience, he can have that experience. I do not want that experience because he [?is not?] talking to his dead son. He is talking to a demon, so it is infiltrating the church. And whenever God sends someone to me, I tell them what God tells me to tell them. And I will be persecuted because I am obeying God, but I do not need to be persecuted because my own pride told me to save somebody, if you know what I am talking about. God tells me to tell you the truth; I will tell you the truth. Whatever lumps I have to take for telling you the truth, I will take it. But if God does not tell me to tell you, I am not telling you because I do not need your lumps when God did not tell me to tell you. I have enough problems, so I just stay here in my little corner of the world. And whoever God sends here for truth, I have got it if they want to hear it. But that is a wicked doctrine infiltrating the church, wicked doctrine. Did I answer your question?



            I had another question.


            Can someone take you over to the other side? Like, if someone says, well, I want to get there too, can -- and they say, well, I could take you there?

Yeah. See, there is no other side, OK.

            Or say take you in the spirit. Like, if God is dealing with you -- is that what we were talking about? [INAUDIBLE] taking you into --


            Yeah, taking you into -- you know, making love with the Lord. Can someone else take you into that experience? Do you know what I am talk- --

I know what you are talking about. Something is very wrong over there, OK. Something is really wrong over there. That is ridiculous. I am in a very cocky attitude tonight, and I have no patience for this at all, you know. It is perverse, I am telling you.


I am telling you, something really wrong over there, OK. Love with the Lord is of the mind. It is up here, OK. She has got a big problem.

            When somebody casts out a demon, and can they cast a demon out by any other authority besides Christ?

Yes. Satan casts out demons, absolutely.

            Then how do you know the difference?

At the exact moment that it is happening, you can try the spirit, OK. If you cannot try the spirit, then you h- -- you can examine the fruit, which can take a period of time. Is the person -- has their life changed, number one? Because a lot of people say they cast out demons, and the person's life does not change. You see, if you truly have cast out a demon, this tormenting behavior will not be evident any longer, but that can result from a satanic spirit. But the basic difference that you have to watch [AUDIO CUTS OUT] is that if Jesus casts out that demon, that person -- that area where that ungodly behavior came out is going to be sealed off, and godly behavior is going to fill that part of the person's heart, and it will never come back again.

If another spirit casts out that demon, either it will come back again -- it is like a weed. It grows back again. Maybe the -- I do not know how long. They are OK for a week; they are OK for a month; they are OK for a year. It is going to come back again. I honestly do not know how long it would take, or in some instances another form of destructive behavior will take its place. And it is easier for me to give you an example with healing, although it is the same principle. Someone can be delivered from cancer, and two months later, they get heart disease. You see, God does not do that. God does not deliver you from cancer and two months later give you a heart disease. It is almost like saying that the poison is forced in another direction, like you are pruning a plant, and it forces growth in another area.

But, you know, someone like you, you know, all you have to do is ask the Lord if that was Him. You hear from God. You know, is that Your Spirit, Lord? But you should be able to discern the spirit at the moment that it is happening, should be able to discern the spirit on the person who is doing the delivering. Look at the person; examine their life. Do you have an opinion whether they are a true person of God or not? Are they of God? Are they manifesting Christ? Is their life in order? OK, if the person's life is not in order, there is a good chance it is not the Spirit of God. Of course, the Lord can do anything. The Lord can manifest through a donkey, so the bottom line is you always check it out with the Lord, but look at that minister, OK. Now if there is a lot of witchcraft on that minister, we are t- -- we are still talking about the same person here. I would ask the Lord. I would say it is a possibility that it is not God, but it could be God. You have to ask Him because right now that person seems to have a mixture operating in them, but from what I have seen, it is -- the anointing is moving to the witchcraft anointing.

But, you see, He is a mighty and a great God. You know, you take somebody like that, who is a mixture, even if there is more witchcraft operating than Christ operating, and someone walks in their path in desperate need of deliverance, Christ will rise up in that person and cast that demon out no matter how reprobate they are. Because there are a lot of ministers today that will not yield their members to the casting out of demons. They do not want to do it. They do not want any part of it. It is a dirty business. It is a real dirty business. Sometimes there is foul odors. Sometimes there is violence. It is a dirty business. Pharisees do not want to get their hands dirty with it, so if God has somebody that needs a demon cast out of them and there is a minister that is 90 percent witchcraft and 10 percent Christ and God decides to do it, He will use that minister to cast that demon out of that person. So when you make an evaluation like that, just be very careful that there is no Pharisee in your mind getting in there because the bottom line with Jesus is mercy.

            Would God ever take away somebody's healing or cause -- say if someone had an operation, will God cause that -- whatever that was operated on to come back and then say, if you continue to stay out of My will, I will keep ripping up the scar, and you will keep going back for operations as many times as it will take for you to yield?

Well, I cannot tell you what God would do. I can just give you my opinion. I really would be shocked if that was God, to be honest with you. I would be very surprised to find out that that was the Lord. [UNINTELLIGIBLE] I cannot see it.


This body, this physical body --

            That would be like a threesome [INAUDIBLE]

No, it is not a threesome.


It is not a threesome. It is not a threesome, I am telling you. It happens. I have s- -- it happens in Africa. It happens, and it is very real, but it is not of God. It is not a threesome. Eventually, it locks your husband out.


Eventually, it locks your husband out. It is just you and the demon.

            Oh, I see what you are saying. [INAUDIBLE] OK, I understand what you are saying.


            That was the example given, and we were saying, well, that would be like [INAUDIBLE]

Satanic. It is satanic. It just keeps getting worse. Are you sure the Lord still wants you there?


OK. [?You stand?]. [INAUDIBLE] this body. Well, I will just leave it at that for now. See, this is the path that that whole element of the church is going down. You know, you take one wrong step, and by the time you take your 10th wrong step, you are out in that field there somewhere. You just keep going in the wrong direction.

            The way it was explained to me was it was told that I was -- how would you put it? I was not submitting to authority in that I was out of order, and that because I was -- she was my [?head?], that I was supposed to submit to her. And I told her, if you are not walking according to how the Lord is leading me, then I am [?not to?] follow you.

That is true.

            [CROSSTALK] God. And she said -- and she gave example after example and said that, you know, I -- you could be here, and the destination is the blackboard, but if I am going and I am going off the course and I am coming back off course and stuff like that, that [UNINTELLIGIBLE] I am to follow her, and I said no. I said, when you get off course, I am not to follow you, and she did not like that. She did not like it. She is like, no, [?you are here to follow me?]. I said, no [?way?]. [INAUDIBLE] basically, what I am saying is I am going to follow you as you follow Christ.


            If you are not in Christ, I am not to follow you, and I am going to follow God. God is my head, and she want me to submit to her and say that I am to follow her no matter what, even if she goes off course, and I told her no.



I --

            I mean, I did not mean to go off on this.

No, it is OK. You know, if you need ministry in this area, you know, we are here. This is bad stuff.

            What are angels?

Angels, I believe, are visible expressions of a spirit or visible expressions of one's mind. OK, let me clarify that. Spirit is invisible. It has no form, and it has no shape. When the spirit which is in your mind, the spirit of your mind Paul speaks about, when the spirit which is in your mind desires to appear or take visible form, he has the ability to vibrate because spirit is like light. It moves by vibration, so he vibrates out of your mind, stands across from you and has the ability to take form in front of you. Demons have the same ability.

Every spirit that is in your mind, whether it be of God or whether it not be of God, operates on the same level, has the ability to vibrate out from your mind in a visible form, and as soon as it leaves your mind -- when it is in your mind, it is invisible, and it has no form or shape, and it has no -- it does not occupy any space. From the second it leaves your mind and enters into this world, it has the ability to take form, and the example that we use is water. We know that water appears on three levels. It can appear as vapor, which is -- typifies spirit. It can appear as water, which typifies soul. Water is visible but unstable. It has no firm form. And then as it continues to descend or as it continues to cool down, it will become ice, in which form it becomes rigid, and it takes a permanent form, until you melt it, of course.

Spirit is the same thing. When it is in your mind, it is unseen, and when it vibrates out into this world system, it becomes hard and takes shape, and that is what an angel is. It is the personification of the mind, which is in you. So we have evil angels, and we have good angels, and if the angel is a good angel, it is a manifestation of God coming out of your mind. And if it is an evil angel, it is a manifestation of your carnal mind, or it could be Satan himself coming out of your mind.

Now you need a high measure of spiritual authority to express that from your mind. People that experience demons in front of them, if you talk to people, they will give you testimonies. I ha- -- I know one man who comes to mind. He was in bed, and demon appeared on his windowsill. And someone else I know, there was a headless man running through the house, and I have heard all kinds of testimonies. I was in a heavy deliverance church for five years. I have heard a lot, and I want to tell you this stuff is coming out of their own mind, OK, and it is one of the biggest deceptions of this world system. It is a big secret. The demons do not want you to know that they are coming from your mind. They want you to think that they are coming from someone else or want you to think that they are coming from the pit, or they want you to think that they are -- whatever they want, they do not want you to know they are living in your mind.

            So nobody can send you a demon and --

Well, they [CROSSTALK]

            -- and have it manifest?

Yeah, they can. Someone -- a demon is an expression of a thought, of a wicked thought in your mind. So someone that has resident witchcraft power can send you a demon. I guess, I did not make that clear. It can be sent to you, but it has to be rooted in somebody's mind. It appears in front of you. Either its roots are in your mind, or someone else has sent you a demon, and no ma- -- even if you are on the other side of the world, they have roots in somebody's mind. Well, most of the time, when you see a demon, at least people in this country today, when you see a demon it is coming out of your own mind. If you start getting into a nation where there is heavy witchcraft, well, then -- and it could happen here, you know. It could be from someone else's mind.

It depends on what the demon does when it appears to you. Now if it comes and it tries to kill you, the chances are pretty good that it is someone else's mind, OK. If it just comes and it sits on the windowsill and it talks to you, you know, and tries to get friendly with you or tries to become your guide, if you have heard of spirit guide, if it tries to tell you that it is a good spirit and wants to be your friend, the chances are excellent that it is coming out of your mind and that it is a demon in your mind that wants to gain greater dominance over your person.

You see, demons will come to you. They will tell you that they are your friends and that they will serve you, you know. What can I do for you? How can I help you? You know, have you heard about genie, rubbing the lamp and the genie comes out? It is all true. These demons, they will come to you. They say, I will help you. What do you need? I will do it for you. And the ignorant person that accepts this believes that these demons are serving them. OK, they have a spirit guide, and he tells them. He gives them information about the stock market. He makes lots of money, and they say, wow, I have got these demons in my pocket. I must be something really hot. And they keep on going, and, you see, there is a price to pay. And every time they communicate with these demons and every time they get a gift from these demons, the demons increase in dominance in them until the day comes where the tables turn, and it is too late, and the demon is the master, and the person is the servant. And then, unless you get the mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ, you are one -- in one trouble.

And if you are wondering if that is true, we have a positive example of it. We see people with the gifts of the Spirit, and it is the Spirit -- it is the Holy Spirit, and there is a lot of people in the church, you know, who -- the church is immature. There is a lot of immaturity in the church, a lot of Christians running around thinking that the Holy Ghost is there to serve them and to get them gifts and get them presents and that the Holy Ghost is there to make their life more comfortable, and they think He is going to do anything they pray, they get the answer to. A lot of Christians think that, but the truth of the matter is that the Holy Ghost is just the beginning, and it is His job to form Christ in you. And once Christ is formed in you, Christ wants full domination of your life. Only when Christ fully dominates your life, it is a positive effect on your life, and it is a good thing. But when those demons want full domination of your life, they will kill you. Spirits do the same thing. Good spirit, bad spirit, they all do the same thing. They want full domination of your life. That is the bottom line.


            You had said in one of your messages that Jesus was the archangel, Michael.

If I -- I hope I did not say it like that, but what I believe is that the archangel, Michael, was a manifestation of Christ. Did I say it the other way around?


Yeah? Well, that was a long time ago. I may have said it that way. OK.

            When I heard it, I was like, whoa, wait a minute. She is going to have to explain that to me.

Yeah. He -- Christ can take more than one form. I believe Gabriel is an expression of Christ too. You see, just as you, as a natural person, have many aspects to your personality, you are human; you are a woman; you are a mother; you are -- you know, you are a wife; you are a cook; you are a seamstress; you are many different things, and you are all one person. Christ is many things, but He is so great that every time He appears in a particular function, He gives Himself a n- -- a different name, so -- to help us understand, OK. The angel, Gabriel, is a messenger. Every time Christ appears to someone as a messenger, as He did to Mary, He takes the form of the angel -- archangel, Gabriel, OK. When Christ appears as a warrior, Michael is the warrior, Christ in a man, OK, so we who are carnal, so that we can have help and understanding. OK, because Jesus [UNINTELLIGIBLE] He has so much to tell us, we cannot bear it. We could not bear it, so it is easy for us to understand, well, there is an archangel, Michael, appearing. It is a manifestation of Christ in the form of a warrior, [?in His?] function as warrior, OK. Did I answer your question? Yeah.             

            Explain something about the principalities and powers, how they manifest from us [?and in our?] mind.

Principalities and powers. OK, principalities and powers are different from demons. Principalities and powers are speaking about the carnal mind and Satan himself, our own carnal mind, OK. And we have an unconscious mind, and we have a conscious mind. And even the scientists tell you -- now I may have my percentage wrong, but I know it was a high percentage, 75 percent, of our -- of the activities of our unconscious mind is unbeknownst to us. I read an article about it not too long ago. So there is a continuous operation of our unconscious mind that the average human being knows nothing at all about. Now what happens when Christ starts to be formed on you, He starts to shed light on everything, and this is the beginning of Armageddon. He shows you the operation of Satan in your own unconscious mind because there is no way you can kill him.

You see, our carnal mind has to be killed, and I am not going to kill your carnal mind. You have to kill your carnal mind. I am killing my carnal mind, and I may be giving your carnal mind a few shots until you get the idea, but you have got to kill him, you see. So when Christ starts to manifest in you, He shines a light on the darkness which is in your unconscious mind. And anybody that is going through this process, we have to start looking upon it and seeing it for what it is. And that is the -- we are told about that in the Book of Thessalonians. That is the unveiling of the man of sin. He is in our own mind.

Now someone came to me very recently and said to me, Sheila, I am just having terrible thoughts about you, and I am all upset. And I do not know what they thought I was going to say, but what I said was, oh, that is just your carnal mind talking about me. Now the fact that someone can come to me and say I am having terrible thoughts about you and I am all upset, what that says to me is that a separation has taken place in the person's mind, that they know that these -- that they do not feel this way. OK.

Now some people are not that strong in their minds, and some people, their carnal mind stirs up and tells them evil about me, and Christ is not strong enough in them to say, now you know that is not true about her, OK. So when this person that I recently had this experience with, apparently Christ was strong enough in them to be saying to them, well, you know, that is not true. That is not true about her, and you do not even feel that way about her. That was a sign that some sanctification has taken place. There has been some separation between the Christ that is forming and the carnal mind, but the person who hears this whisper in their head and just believes it, what it means -- and there is no condemnation in it. What it means is that either Christ is not being formed in them, or Christ is so young in them that they are completely taken over by the wicked thoughts of their carnal mind, who wants nothing more than to separate us because I am a danger to the carnal mind wherever he is manifesting. I am a serious enemy. So if he can do it, he will [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- if he can convince you of evil towards me, he will do it.

So the operation of the powers and principalities, the only thing that is coming to me right now to tell you is that, in your case, it is still very largely on an unconscious level, OK. So when I come to you, and I know I have told you things that have upset you, but what I am doing is punching your carnal mind in the head. I want him to move so you can see him. He is hidden. He is behind the rocks. He is there in the shadows. You cannot see him.

            It really is not something you can push before its time either, am I right?

No. I think that you are doing very well, Mary. I -- you cannot ask any more of anybody. I -- all I ask you to do is I -- if I tell you something that you think is off the wall and I ask you to pray about it, and you pray about it. I c- -- nobody can ask any more of you than that, and I see you responding to the Lord, and I see you coming along. So it is just little by little. It is not easy [AUDIO CUTS OUT] very brave.


It is very hard.



            Excuse me.

Interesting evening. I guess, [INAUDIBLE] a lot of information. You know, you need this practical information. [UNINTELLIGIBLE] I had not heard what you mentioned about -- I do not remember how you expressed it, about going into the bedchamber with your husband and the Lord. Is that what you said?

            [?Erik Carson?].      

[?Erik Carson?].

            Yeah, you know, and then the words are you are making love with the Lord. She can take you there. She can [CROSSTALK]

Yeah. I have not heard that before. What I had heard was that [?birthing will?] -- yeah, it keeps getting worse.


Well --


I do not know what I am [UNINTELLIGIBLE] she can take you there. So you do not know exactly what -- know what she means by it. She might -- she may have meant that she can show [?you?] to lead into this experience, you know.



It is not a physical experience. It is the experience [INAUDIBLE]

            Because if the Lord is leading you [INAUDIBLE] prayer, can someone else take you into [INAUDIBLE]?

Well, [INAUDIBLE] I am not sure what she means, but I am giving her the benefit of the doubt. What it says to me, yes, it possible that someone who has a heavy anointing on them, if you submit yourself to pray with them, that that anointing can stimulate a greater anointing in you. That is possible, if that is what she means. I do not know what she means.

05/31/15 Transcribed by VerbalFusion

06/04/15 1st Edit CAS/BP

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Pastor Vitale's Bio

Sheila R. Vitale is the founding teacher and pastor of Living Epistles Ministries and Christ-Centered Kabbalah. In that capacity, she expounds upon the Torah (Scripture) and teaches Scripture through a unique Judeo-Christian lens.

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