549 - 1 Part
SUBMIT YOURSELVES, THEY WATCH FOR YOUR SOULS

The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For
Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation
By The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.
 

 

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 He is going to show you the root of the problem, rebellion against your mother, your mother's envy of you, whatever it is, that is what He is going to show you. When you are willing to face that, both in yourself and in your mother, and ask the Lord to deliver you, your relationship is going to change for the better, but if you are not willing to look at what He shows you is really causing it, you will not get the help, and then you will say, Well I prayed but Jesus did not do anything about it, that is the carnal mind.

 

I guess I have to give your break right, we are sort of late today. Let me just finish this item, I think we were on, we were on #1c. To be in CCK meeting you have to be willing to confront and deal with sin, arising out of the unconscious mind, both in yourself and your loved ones, and in members of the congregation who are not aware that their carnal mind or lack of understanding or experience is causing a problem in the ministry.

 

We deal with that in the CCK meeting, we pray about it, we talk about it, we seek God's solution to the problem, His Godly solution to the problem, that is what we do in those meetings. We will pick up with #2 after the break.

 

We just returned from our break, during which I was told that there was discussion going on before the meeting and Xxxx wanted to know if she was teaching unauthorized, and I understand you had a little discussion about Ham. This is a very fine line, there was absolutely nothing wrong with that discussion that went on before the meeting. I would like the disciples here to discuss the teaching here.

 

When I say, when I talk about being approved to teach, first of all I mean in Living Epistles, under the cover of Living Epistles, what you do outside of this meeting, is between you and God. I just want to repeat what I said before, the way the people that I named that are approved to teach, the reason they are approved to teach here is that over the years, they have submitted what they teach to me, because if you want to preach in this ministry, you have to, your teaching has to flow with what is being taught here, and I have to have a witness in my spirit that the Lord is raising you up to teach here, but mostly that the message that I am teaching is being accurately reproduced through you, thank you Jesus, it has nothing to do with respecting persons or preferring one person over another, it has nothing to do with that at all, it is my job to confirm that what is being preached here is being accurately reproduced through you.

 

The only way I could do that is for you to let me know what you are teaching. As I said, Over the years everyone, the few names that I named that are approved to teach at Living Epistles have come to me and said, I had an opportunity to minister to somebody and this is what I told them, did I get it right, how would you have handled it, would you have handled it differently? These people have submitted their ministries to me, and therefore I have influenced their ministry, and that is why they are approved to teach here.

 

If you are taking what is taught here and you go outside and teach it, I have nothing to say about it, but you are not approved by Living Epistles unless you submit what you are teaching to me, discipleship involves submission. You have to submit to the teacher to fully get what is being preached here, and if you do not do that, you run the risk of teaching your understanding of what is being taught here, which could be inaccurate. Therefore to be responsible to the Lord, to myself, to the other people here, I am have to say, you are not approved to represent Living Epistles Ministries, if I do not know what you are teaching. Because you sat in my meeting, does not mean that you have accurately understood what I have taught.

 

As far as the conversation before the meeting, I admit it is a very fine line, like I said, I would like the disciples here to be able to discuss the message here, and if someone like Xxxx who has been studying here for all of these years, gave her opinion of her understanding, that is not the same thing as if, this is very fine, it is a spiritual discernment. When somebody is going forward to teach, and someone is just giving me their sharing of their knowledge in a conversation, I do not know how to explain it any better than that, but there is a difference, and it is a spiritual difference between talking to someone.

 

If you in your own mind think that you are a teacher, you talk to the person with a spirit of authority, that is what it is. It does not have to be conscious, it does not have to be conscious. If, in your heart of hearts you think that you are capable of teaching this message, or any message, you approach the person that you are teaching with a spirit of authority, and that is just the truth, and I do not think that happened before the meeting, I think that was just a conversation amongst the disciples, and Xxxx gave her opinion but from what she tells me was completely accurate.

 

Does anybody not understand? It is a very fine line. I know you asked a very good question, so I would like to answer it for you. If ever the disciples have a discussion like that and a question comes up that cannot be answered, please let me know because I will be happy to answer your question for you. Yes Noah definitely did have the authority to curse Ham, the question was did Noah have the authority to curse Ham? Noah was not humanoid, Noah came from the other side of the flood before men fell into animal bodies, and he was a very powerful spiritual being, but aside from that, parents have the most frightening ability to bless or curse their children, you know.

 

Anybody that has authority over somebody has in my opinion a frightening degree of power over that person. Pastors have a frightening degree of power over the people they teach. That is why a lot of people in the church today do not want to submit to the pastors because there has been a lot abuse in the church. Usually the people that I get here are the people who have already been abused by the pastors in the church, so I get all of the problems, and all I could do is tell you what I have been telling you for years, that your faith should be in Jesus Christ.

 

First you have to find out if He wants you in this ministry, you have to pray until you, you do not have to hear an audible voice, but you have to feel, you have to be attracted to this ministry, and then you pray, and say, Lord, if this is not you, please get me out, but if it is you, I need to know that this is where you want me. Once you get the witness in your heart that you are supposed to be here, then you are supposed to submit to me or any ministry where the Lord sends you, that you are supposed to submit to the teacher believing that if something is wrong, Jesus Christ is over the teacher, that if one day, because you know people turn, they turn like that, one day someone is teaching out of Christ, and the next day, we had that over here, great, great ministry, powerful ministry on Long Island, the pastor was being invited everywhere, just got back from Russia, was calling himself an apostle, and the next thing I know he was running away with the church secretary and the whole anointing is gone from the church, and the whole bottom fell out of the ministry, you know, people turn.

 

You have to, I am just a human being, and if I see any idolatry in a disciple, I will tell you and put it down as fast as I can, I do not want you idolizing me, I cannot live up to that, and I would not even try. Your faith has to be in Jesus Christ, if something starts to go wrong here, He is either going to help me, that would be His first move to help me, and then if it did not work, He would you know speak to the people. Your faith has to be in Jesus Christ, that if He put you here, that it is safe for you to submit to me. If I tell you to write a check for a million dollars, you know you have got a problem and you have to leave right? If I tell you to do something stupid like commit adultery, you know you have to leave, but as long as all that I am asking you, all that I am talking about is behavior in a meeting, you know, or showing you something in your mind that was inappropriate, you should be submitting to that, you should be trusting Jesus Christ to submit to that, and as I told you earlier, the correct procedure, what does correct mean? The procedure that is going to ultimately end in your good, a procedure that is going to benefit you, is that you believe me, and that you ask the Lord to help you to understand it, knowing that if I am wrong He is going take care of me, not you, you cannot take care of me. You cannot rise up against an authority and correct them, all that you can do is go before the Lord and say, That does not sound right to me, but I am submitting to the pastor trusting you Jesus that you are straighten this out. If you do not believe that I hear the Lord when He corrects me, you should not be here, if you do not have that kind of faith in me, you should not be here. I am under correction, I am under more correction than a lot of other pastors that claim that they have other ministries over them.

 

The answer to your question is that Noah was not a humanoid, he was a spiritual being, plus he had the authority of the Father, and even more than that, if you look at it, this is one of the challenges of the Christ mind, okay, can you actually rise up and look at things from a cosmic point of view, what do I mean by that? Can you deal with archetypes, what do I mean with that? Noah, he was the one that survived the flood, he was the seed of the new world, he and his sons were the seed that were going to start a whole new world. If you can think of Noah as the seed of the new beginning, and Ham as the seed that was, it was just two seeds, it was Satan that rose up in Noah, because Ham had the righteous seed, and the truth of what happened is that Noah survived the whole judgment that wiped out the whole world on the other side of the flood, and after he survived, I am not sure what it was but most likely his pride got the best of him and he said, I am the only that survived, I am the god of the new world, and then Satan rose up in him.

 

I do not know that is what Noah thought but I do know that Satan rose up in him. Ham, his son saw that the father, look how important Noah was, he was the seed of the new world, and he was corrupted, and Ham rose up and that is what we talked about in this meeting, do you, everyone of you here, do you have the guts to admit sin if you see it in your son, or your mother, or your husband, or your wife, do you have the guts, I am telling you to condemn them, but do you have the guts to say, I see sin in them, Lord, what are you willing to do about it, how can help them?

 

If you want to be a son of God, that for me to be able to do that, you cannot put your emotions in it, you cannot say, I am not going to recognize that sin because it is my son. Most people will not do that consciously, they just will not recognize it, or they will make excuses for their son. That is what Ham did, he saw sin arising in the seed of the new world, the patriarch of the new world, and even though it was his father, his commitment to God was greater than his commitment to his father who was, of course you are committed to your father, but when he goes off he goes off, right? Ham rose up and served God first, and sounded the alarm hoping his two brothers would join him in maybe saving Noah, you know, maybe putting down Satan that was rising in him, but his two brothers were corrupted also, so it was Ham all by himself against Noah, and Shem, and Japheth, and Satan rose up in Noah, and knocked down, it was Abel that had risen up in Ham, the seed of righteousness, so Satan because Noah would not repent, see Noah's sin was exposed, Ham his son, exposed his sin, and Noah would not receive it.

 

Listen brethren, as soon as sin is exposed in you, and you refuse it, Satan rises in you, you have got to hear this, I am telling you the truth, it is true of me too, when sin is revealed in you, and you will not receive it, or sin is revealed in your son, and you will not receive it, or sin is revealed in your mother or your brother, or your husband or your wife, and you block it because they are close to you, Christ does not do that and Satan rises in you and now has dominion over you, and starts to expand her influence over you, what does that mean? She starts to cover over whatever manifestation of the Christ mind that you have.

 

You cannot do that and stay in Christ, that kind of reaction kills Christ in you. Ham was the seed of righteousness, and he exposed sin in his father and his father would not accept it and Satan rose up and cursed not only Ham, but Canaan, the descendants of Canaan in particular. Does that answer your question?

 

Noah definitely had the authority to do it, but also parents do, you have a tremendous power to curse your own children. Some children never recover from what their parents have said to them, or done to them. They live their whole life bleeding, you know, they never recover. It could just be, like I recently was talking about this young woman, whose mother said to her, No man will ever want you, and no man ever wanted her, she never got married.

 

It is unbelievable, but it is true. When you, the influence that you have over people, when you have authority, but listen, whether you are in a ministry like this, or whether you are a wife or a child or a teenager that is still living at home if you are listening to this message, because there is nobody here like that, you need to know that in Christ Jesus, you have an advocate, that is what Bible says, in Christ Jesus was have an advocate. Do not fight with your husband, you have to go to Jesus.

 

The problem that women have, I have ministered this to so many women in this ministry, you can come and fight with me, you have to go to Jesus, you cannot go and fight with your husband, you have to go to Jesus. What does that mean? I think I am very approachable, all you have to do is ask to talk to me, just talk to me in a right spirit and we will pray and straighten everything out, as long as you are willing to receive what Christ has to say. You have to believe that most of the time I am going to be right, although not all of the time.

 

If you are a woman and you are having a problem with your husband, and you have truly submitted to Jesus, He will give your husband an approachable heart, and you will be able to talk to him. You cannot be beating down the natural authority in the family, the father is the natural authority in the family. Children need to know that the father is the natural authority in the family, you can not be hitting him over the head with a bat, you know, Jesus will not honor that. What is really hard for people to accept, both whether you are dealing with an employer, the same thing with an employer, you would not dare beat your employer over the head with a bat, because you know you would get fired, but you beat your husband over the head with a bat, and some people have tried to beat me over the head with a bat, because you do not think you are going to get fired, but sometimes you get fired. Anyway, the way it works is this, that is so intolerable for most people, when anyone under authority comes to Jesus with a complaint, whether the complaint is legitimate or not, the first thing that the Lord does is come to you and reveal sin in you and He says, You get yourself straightened out and I will deal with the authority.

 

I have ministered to women that simply cannot receive this, this is all positions, and everyone in authority are placed there by God, that is what we are told in Romans 13, everyone in authority is placed there by God, and He is going to stand with His authority, and if His authority does something wrong, He is going to take care of it, not you. He is going to deal with the people that He has put in authority, not you.

 

If you have got a husband, and he is really reprobate, you know, the guy is wrecking the house and drinking and drugging, that is not what I am talking about, that is a different circumstance, I am talking about a normal man that you are married to, or a normal employer, or a normal pastor that is really trying to do the job but makes mistakes, you have to go through channels, you have to talk to the higher authority, you cannot stand up against the authority that is over you.

 

The Lord, I am telling you the Lord will never honor it, never ever, because it is a spirit of rebellion and rebellion is the sin of witchcraft, you have to go through channels, the Lord is your advocate, and He is my advocate, He helps me whenever anyone, do not think people do not have authority over me, people have authority over me. What is an example? Who has authority over me? I have a loan, I have a loan on my car, the people who gave me the loan had authority over me, that was a whole big deal when I got that loan on my car, I wound up with a 3.8 mortgage which was an absolute miracle, because I messed it up at the beginning, I dd the wrong thing, and the Lord was my advocate, He fought for me, because there was no way I could have fought those people. The Lord is our advocate, you have to let Him be your advocate.

 

As soon we take matters into our own hands, He is not our advocate, He says, Alright, you want do it yourself, okay, I will just stand here and watch you shoot yourself in the foot, I will just stand here and watch until you call on me. That is what He says. It is all of us, we are all stubborn, it is our fallen condition, so the Lord's plan is to educate us, to show us how fallen we are in our mind, to show us our stubbornness, to show us our foolishness, and to teach us the proper way, what is the proper way? The way that is going to get God to fight for us, what we have to do to get God to fight for us, because when God fights for us, you win.

 

The only time we lose is because we are not in sync with the Lord, that is the only time we lose, but also remember the Lord says, All things work for the good for those who love the Lord. He loves us, He loves us, but, Jesus said, If you love me, you will obey My commandments. And He also says, Those who I love, I chasten. Listen, if He does not correct us, we are just going to go into destruction, do you not correct your children? The problem is, we cannot see ourselves as spiritual children, we look at our physical stature and all that we have accomplished in the world, whatever that might be, accomplishment in career, accomplishment in education, accomplishment financially, and we say, Who is He going to correct, I made it, and you just finished yourself, because no matter how accomplished you are in this world, that does not, that is not a measure of your spiritual accomplishment.

 

If you come into this world with blessings on your life, we all come into this world with blessings and cursings on our life, and if the balance is in the favor of blessings, you know we have a better life, but if you come into this world with a blessing of finances in your life, no matter what you do, it turns to gold. Some people are like that, no matter what career they pursue or what they pursue, those make the right choice, everything they do, they make money on, and then you come to the Lord, you have an experience with God, and you become a practicing Christian, a spirit filled Christian, someone seeking God, and you are making all of this money, God did not give you that money, you came into this world with that blessing on your life. The miracle, the financial miracle of God can only be manifested on somebody that does not have that kind of a blessing, somebody that has been poor, somebody that has been struggling all of their life, that after serving God for a season, He makes very wealthy by some supernatural means. That is the witness to God's ability to give, the Scripture says, God gives you the power to get wealth.

 

Some people come into this world, and they come in with a blessing of health, no matter what you do to them, they are just healthy, nothing bothers them you know, well you do not have divine health because you have a relationship with God, you were healthy like that before you ever knew about Jesus Christ, but when the Lord takes the sick person, the dying person, the person that is in this world cursed to the hilt, no matter what happens, they are sick, no matter what happens, something goes wrong with them, anything that could go wrong, goes wrong, when that person gets healthy, like me, that is the power of God in my life.

 

All of these things, we need to be taught, so no matter how smart we are, by man's education, until we start learning that spiritual principles, the Bible says, We do not know it, but we are blind, and naked, and deaf, and whatever, that is in the book of Revelation. You think you are all, and I am not talking about anyone here right now, it is all through the whole church world, they think that they have arrived, you have not arrived.

 

The church world knows very, very little about spirituality in Christendom. Where they see spirituality, they become frightened, they think all spirituality is witchcraft, but it is not, there is spirituality in Christ Jesus, and there is spirituality, and there is spiritual power besides and beyond what you see in the Pentecostal church. There is real spiritual power in Christ Jesus, but it is in the Christ mind, it is not in the carnal mind. To enter into that kind of power in Christ Jesus, we have changed people's lives. You have to give up your carnal mind, and I said that at the beginning of message. For the Christ mind to mature to that point, you have to die to your carnal mind.

 

It is getting late, I did want to go through quickly, these points, because I did want to go over the issue that arose at the last meeting, I wanted to clarify it for everybody here, so let me read through this quickly here. We are up to #2 of Christ Centered Kabbalah, so we just finished 1 a,b, and c, which says, and this is not only to attend Christ Centered Kabbalah meetings, this is to be a son of God, you have to be willing to dispassionately look at sin wherever it is appearing, believing that, that exposure will work for the person's good in Christ Jesus, and not to the evil.

 

You need to understand that these meetings are for mature believers who want Christ to be formed in them, so if you do not want Christ to be formed in you, the CCK meetings are not for you, you need to understand that an invitation to a CCK meeting, does not mean that you have arrived at spiritual maturity, it does not mean that you are a great one, it just means that you are getting ready to have your pride crushed so that Christ can appear in you, so if you think you are a big shot, do not come, because you are going to be disappointed.

 

To be in Christ Centered Kabbalah meetings, you need to be willing to have your sin nature exposed by the pastor, you have to be willing to be corrected by the pastor, and that is talking about correcting the way you think because, what we are dealing with is the functioning and the rationale of the Christ mind as opposed to the rationale of the carnal mind, so if I tell you that the thought that you just came up with is out of your carnal mind, and you think that means that I do not want to hear your opinion, that meeting is not for you, because you do not understand that I telling you that you are thinking with your carnal mind, it is not that I do not want your opinion, but it is a complete, it is by discernment, I do not even know how to explain it, that I know that, that conclusion that you came to is coming out of your carnal mind, so I will not entertain it, I will not consider it. I only want to speak to your Christ mind in these meetings, and that is the CCK meetings.

 

You need to be willing to believe that most people including Christians, are not in touch with their own motives, and brethren, that is the truth, very few people are in touch with their own motives. If I tell you that your motive was something that would be sin and your automatic reaction is, Well I do not see it that way, you do not belong in these meetings, because to be in, to come to the meetings, you need to understand that I am looking into the depths of your unconscious mind that you cannot see. Do you have to believe everything that I tell you about yourself? You have to believe it to the point that you are willing to submit it to Jesus Christ, and tell Him if it is really true, that you want, you want to see it, if it is true you want to see it, that is what you need to be able to do, because nobody can believe it if you do not believe it, you have to be willing to believe it, if the Lord tells you that it is true. You have to be willing to be taught how to distinguish between the thoughts of your carnal mind and your Christ mind, as they are revealed by your attitudes, what you say in meetings, your interactions with pastor, or the discernment of the pastor, and this has been a big fly in the ointment before the meeting separated.

 

If you are not willing to accept that I can see into your motives more than you can see into your own motives, if you cannot believe that, these meetings are not for you, and the meetings would just upset you, and the meetings will be disrupted, because that is the reality. There is, I do not really recommend that anybody do a lot of the things that I do, but there is a series on tv called "The Charmed Ones", and it is about three good witches, this is the wiccan community trying to convince the public that witches can do good works. Remember our definition of witchcraft is, spiritual power exercised apart from the will of God.

 

I have been watching that series, and it is amazing, that they talk about a lot of the spiritual things that I experience. I have, why am I telling you this? Because a recent episode that I saw, was the witch that has the gift of intuition, she knows what people are saying before they say it, and she knows what is in their heart before they even know it, and I have that gift, not 100% of the time but when the Lord reveals it to me, I know frequently what someone's motive is and they do not even know it yet, so what am I trying to tell you? I am trying to show you, I do not know how good an example it is, that even the occult world knows that these gifts, they exist in the spirit, that it is possible for me to know what is in your heart and you do not know it. Does anybody not understand what I just said? The whole world out there knows it, just the church does not know it.

 

If you want to grow, you do not have to believe me if you do not want to, but if you want to benefit from what is available to you in this ministry, you need to seriously consider what I am telling you that I am seeing in your heart, and put it before the Lord, and say, Lord if it is true I want to deal with it, not just brush me off and say, Well I do not see it, so I do not know what you are talking about, and if that is where you are in your maturation, you are not ready for CCK meetings.

 

I am not saying you cannot ever get there, but you are not ready at this point, if that is where you are, if that would be your reaction. Well I do not see that in myself, you know, where did you get that from Sheila? Discernment, discernment, I do not what you are talking about. This meeting is not for you.

 

#10, you have to be willing to give pastor the benefit of the doubt and pray about any disagreement you have with pastor's discernment about your motives. We just talked about that. You agree to maintain a respectful demeanor during any discussion or conversation that you have with pastor. You will not strive with the pastor even you disagree with her, you have to submit it to God.

 

You understand that Christ Centered Kabbalah meetings come in three flavors, we have theory, which is teaching and preaching, we have laboratory, and these are meetings where you interact with the pastor, where I will put a situation out, I will throw a situation out on the floor, and I will say, What do you think, you know, what is your evaluation, what is your spiritual evaluation of what happened here, and when we all come to a conclusion as to spiritually, the spiritual motivation behind the event, behind the physical event, we will talk about how we would anticipate that the Lord might deal with it, because we never know how the Lord is going to deal with it, but the more experience we have with God, the more qualified we are to make an educated guess as to how He is going to deal with it.

 

One of the things that we are learning in these advanced meetings, is to think with the mind of Christ, because we think with the mind of Christ, and we pray according to His mind, as we understand it, there is that much more of a chance that our prayers will be answered because every prayer that we pray that is in accordance with His will, gets answered.

 

The only prayers that do not get answered are prayers that He does not agree with, and sometimes your prayers do not get answered for a couple of years, because He has to change us in order to give us what we are asking for. Every prayer that would line up with His will for us or other people, He answers.

 

We have laboratory where we practice understanding the rationale of God and how He thinks, and we also have field work which is activities in other locations, sometimes we go to other churches, because the sons of God are the eyes and the ears of the Lord, and it is a spiritual principle that before the Lord moves, if He is going to move to help somebody or if He is going to move to bring judgment, judgment is always for the good, remember that. God is not Satan, Satan punishes to destroy, God is always interested in a corrective judgment for the good of the people.

 

It is His principle that before He brings a correction on a church or any organization, His, the people that are moving in the Christ mind, have to see it, if it is sin, He is a legalist, it has to be recognized, and transmitted to heaven, that is people that are moving in the Christ mind, have recognized this error, and then the Lord will bring a correction. Sometimes He sends us to other churches, all we do is look and report. Sometimes we go to other churches, sometimes we are involved praying politically, we get into some deep spiritual understandings of what the Lord wants to do, even with the United Nations, the United Nations as far as I am concerned is very corrupt, and I prayed to the Lord for I think over a year asking Him how He wants me to pray concerning the United Nations, because I know that the United Nations does a lot of good, it feeds people, it does a lot of good, and I see it corrupt, I do not know how to pray.

 

A lot of Christians would just assume that they know how to pray, I do not know how to pray unless the Lord tells me how to pray, I do not know what God's purposes are for anything or anyone, or any church, or any person, how can I pray concerning their lives if I do not know what God's overall plan is for them. Do I know all of the information that is going on, that I could pray towards a person or a church, I do not. I prayed for over a year how I, asking the Lord how I should pray for the United Nations, and when you, when the response came, it was a strong rebuke and right after that, scandal hit the United Nations, and Xxxx and his son and all of that, they were exposed for their corruption.

 

One of the biggest errors in the church are young Christians or spiritually immature Christians, I do not care what your chronological age is, that actually think that they know how to pray about other people's lives. It is witchcraft in the church. You understand that pastor at her discretion without prior notice that the meeting has been moved to another location such as a restaurant, sometimes we have meetings in restaurants, it is a very interesting ministry. You understand that at her discretion and upon prior notice, pastor may ask the disciples to visit another church, or attend a cultural or social event with her during meeting times.

 

You agree to attend, and this is a fly in the ointment, which this requirement is definitely not in Living Epistles, you agree to attend all scheduled meetings unless there is a pressing personal family matter, that means a wedding, a planned affair or somebody is sick and there is no one else to take care of them, or you are very ill. You need to make a commitment to attend all of the meetings, it is like going to school. You will notify pastor if you will not be attending a scheduled meeting, that is required in CCK, it is not required here, but it would be nice if you would do it, I really appreciate anybody and everybody who notifies me whether, if they cannot be here simply because it is such a small meeting and I am expecting you personally. I will take this opportunity to comment on that notification. I have been preaching here for a long time against third party information, putting, somebody getting in between a relationship between two people is not Godly, I have been preaching that here for years, if you have something to say to Xxxx, you should not be asking me to tell Xxxx. If you cannot make it to a meeting, I would really appreciate it if you called, and it is very ungodly to ask someone else to deliver that information to me on your behalf.

 

As far as your spiritual growth is concerned, you would be better off not even calling me than to have someone else speak for you, because having someone else speak for you, fosters dependency and it is not healthy. It would be nice if you called me, but you do not have to, and you do not have to do anything here, I have been meaning to talk to you about this for a while, and it just seems to be a good opportunity to bring it out, you should not let another person talk on your behalf under any circumstances, you want to become strong do you not? You want to become strong, you want to become an independent person in Christ Jesus, so you should not be letting other people report for you. Did you know that someone else was reporting for you?

 

COMMENT: You mean Xxxx, yeah saying I was sick or something.

 

PASTOR VITALE: You can continue to do that if you want to, it is not requirement, but I am telling you that it is not healthy.

 

COMMENT: Yeah.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Xxxx I have been teaching that for years that you should not be getting between other people that have a relationship, I have been teaching that here for years and years.

 

You will tithe, now this again is not for Living Epistles, but it is for CCK, to attend those meetings you must tithe 10% of your gross income to Living Epistles Ministries, and you agree to volunteer some of your time and effort as you are able to work for the ministry. I thank you all, everyone here today, and anyone listening to this tape, I thank you all for your cooperation and contribution to making the LEM and CCK meetings more productive, and helping us to bring them into line with what God has for us. Are there any questions or comments before I review an unusual teaching that came forth at the last meeting, anybody want to ask me any questions?

 

COMMENT: You said something earlier about not passing literature from somewhere else, and I did bring two books for Xxxx to read on forgiveness, you were talking about that last week, I did not know if that was improper of me to have brought the books.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well actually that is the whole incident that brought this whole teaching about because I gave a teaching on forgiveness that apparently you did not hear at the last meeting, and went forward to give her your own teaching, and actually, this really needed to be done, but it was that event that brought it to pass. That is what I would like to do now, I would like to review the teaching that I gave, which is forgiveness as the Lord sees it, and how, well I will just teach it, but yes it was wrong for you to do it, because you stood right up and opposed what I was teaching in the meeting last week, and then you followed it up by inviting her to a meeting which would teach it the way you see it, and then you brought in books to teach her the way you see it. You are opposing the teaching here, and it would be in your best interest to try and understand what I was teaching, maybe it would help if you can understand what I was teaching. I would appreciate you not doing that.

 

COMMENT: Okay.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Thank you very much. I am going to review this, you see first of all let me try and explain to you that when I minister, I minister under the anointing, every preacher that you go to listen to, does not minister under the anointing, frequently they come in with their notes and they teach the message that they have studied for, I teach under the anointing, so a lot of times I say things that even I have never heard before, and I thought that was such an interesting teaching on forgiveness last week, and I had never heard it before. All that I knew was that I had personal ministry for Xxxx, which came forth under the anointing, and basically it was this, she was having to deal with a court case with somebody who had assaulted her, and she was asking for prayer, and I never during the whole ministry, said the words to her, you need to forgive this man. What I did say to her among other things, was, that she needs to give him over to God for punishment, this was a ministry to her because as I listen to her, what I perceive was she was concerned with the man receiving anger management and other things, and I perceived that the underlying spirit within her was that she was really afraid that he would come after her again, and the way she was dealing with that fear was that she was saying the man should have anger management, and that other people would be benefitted by it, and it is true that other people would be benefitted by it, but the underlying square root of the whole thing was that, she was afraid that this man would come after her again, and the ministry, see the ministry that comes from Christ Jesus is deeply psychological, it is really spiritual psychology, and I had never thought of this before, this was coming forth under the anointing, and I revealed to her that the reason, now, let me put this, maybe I could put this on the board for you.

 

Up here at the top Xxxx is saying, anger management. I am always looking for your motives, that is who Christ Jesus is, He is always looking for your motives because knowing that our motives will deliver us from fear and all kinds of problems, I am saying, Now why is she so concerned that this man gets anger management as part of his sentence? Then it comes to me that she is afraid that he will attack her again, afraid of re-attack. Then I am saying, Well why is she afraid of being attacked again? Do you not have faith that Jesus Christ will protect you? Do you not have faith that Jesus Christ will protect you? Then the Lord revealed to me that there is a lack of faith here, well why is there a lack of faith here? Lack of faith, why, why do you not believe that you are fully protected from God? Then the answer was, because I was assaulted in the first place. Xxxx could not even see that at first because her very Godly attitude was, Well, I am so grateful that it was not worse, I could have been beaten, my bones could have been broken, he could have killed me, I am so grateful that God protected me and I was not hurt any worse.

 

Sometimes spiritual truths contradict each other, and we have to seek God for the reconciling factor, how could it be that Xxxx is thanking God for protecting her, and at the same time afraid that He is not going to protect her? Because there are two truths here, the first truth, it could have been much worse, she could have been completely crushed, that is true, but it is also true that the Lord did not protect her fully, and therefore it is only human, but you see she was not dealing with this with her conscious mind, this was under the surface, it is spiritual psychology, Jesus deals with you at your deepest spiritual root, she was not even aware that there was something operating in her on a subconscious level that says, I am afraid it is going to get me again because the Lord did not fully protect me, both things are true. Thank God the Lord protected her, it could have been much worse, and it is also true that the Lord did not protect her fully. The root of lack of faith is always fear, the root of lack of faith in any area is always fear.

 

That was the ministry the Lord gave to me for her, and from there I pursued it to say, Xxxx this was the Lord's personal ministry for her. Listen, I am never insulting you, I am never insulting you, I am just telling you the truth, you need to know that the two people here that rose up you know, and was shocked that I did not say the word to Xxxx, You have to forgive him, were in your carnal mind, because I was in Christ, and what I was saying to her was, by the word of the Lord, You have to let go of this man, you have to stop trying to control his punishment. Why? Why is the Lord telling her to stop trying to control his punishment? Because the Lord knew that the reason, the root unconscious reason that she was trying to control his punishment was that she was afraid that God could not protect her against him, and that he would get her again. Does anybody not understand that? Right in the meeting last week, before any of this came up, there was a teaching, I even had it on the board about how when we are angry at somebody, or we are afraid of somebody, or if we have any emotion towards somebody, we have a soul tie with that person, and if it is a negative soul tie, if it is anger or fear, we are attacking that person, fear of somebody that is manifesting as a desire to control, is operating in the spirit, it is a continuous projection towards that person that is going forth towards them as curses. The ministry that the Lord had for her was, Xxxx, you have got to let go of this man, God will deal with him, and the truth of the matter is this, this is what we are challenged as a Christian, I believe that God is dealing with this man through the judge that is going to sentence him on October 3rd. What would you do I said, if this man gets life sentence? Will you be disappointed in God, will you blame God? God has a plan for everyone of us that transcends anything we could imagine.

 

Maybe the Lord is calling this man, maybe the result of this whole thing is that he is going to be reconciled to God, and maybe God, maybe Jesus Christ made a decision to go easy on this man, I do not, this is not true, this is just hypothetical, after he really hurt this woman, or if it was me, let us make it completely hypothetical, would I be willing to accept the fact that this man got a life sentence, trusting that God is dealing with this man? This is what Christianity teaches. Give it to God, He does all things well, and just concentrate on your relationship with the Lord, and tell Him your fears that you are concerned that it will happen again, ask Him what He is willing to do for you, how is willing to protect you, is there anything you have to do at your end, let go of this man, Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord, let go of this man.

 

You did all had to do, you went to court, you pressed charges, you got your order of protection, you did all you had to do, give him to God, because we do not know what God is doing in someone else's life, and we do not know how He intends to use this experience in our life, and the answer to every problem in our life is to get the heart of Christ. What I said to her was, Let go of this man. What is the forgiveness of sins? It is letting go of the other person. If you do not forgive somebody, you are mad at them, or you resent them, it is the same exact thing, the classic example is Jesus saying, What difference does it make if I say, Pick up your bed and walk, or your sins are forgiven you. That is what Jesus said, so the carnally minded person, they needed to hear, Pick up your bed and walk, they needed to hear Jesus say, Be healed, but Jesus did not say that. He said the sin that is making you sick is forgiven to you, but the Pharisee could not hear it. That is what I said, Let go of this man, that is the same thing as saying, Forgive him, but I did not say the words, you have to forgive him.

 

Then as I explained to Xxxx in the service, a lot of people say the words, but do not forgive, more people say the words, I forgive you, and they think that they have forgiven, but in their heart of hearts, they have not forgiven. A lot of people in the church, especially, walk around with arthritis and they are crippled, and cancer and all kinds of diseases from bitterness and unforgiveness, and every day they say the words, I forgive you, but they never let the person go, they still resent them, they are still mad at them, they still remember what happened in detail, that is all unforgiveness.

 

If I had a choice, if I had a choice, between telling somebody, say the words, you have to forgive them and explaining what unforgiveness is, that you have to let the person go, you have to get your mind off of that person, and it does not do you any good if you say the words, I bless you in your future life, and you are still filled with resentment for them. How do you know if you are filled with resentment for them unless someone with discernment tells you, because most people are not in touch with their own emotions and their own motives, most people in the church are not in touch with their own motives, they think that intellectual, something intellectual can correct an emotional problem, and it cannot.

 

Words cannot correct an emotional problem, the sins are in our emotions, so it is much more accurate to say, Let the man go, get your mind off of him, give him to God and focus on yourself, that is a more perfect counsel to forgive sins, than to say the words, you have to forgive them.

 

We are talking about how the carnal mind sees this issue, as opposed to how the Christ mind sees this issue, what issue? The forgiveness of sins. The church world is just filled with slogans. What does forgiveness mean? They do not even know what it means. You have a church world sick, dying, the divorce rate is higher in the church than in the world, children out of control, adultery in the marriages, the whole church world is out of order, and they are running around saying, I forgive them, and praise the Lord Jesus, and they are carrying a Bible around, and reading the surface of the word, and there is no help for them, because they do not even know what the words mean, and then Christ Jesus comes along and gives this spiritual teaching of the truth of forgiveness and a couple of people in their carnal mind got all upset because the words forgiveness were not said.

 

That is what happened last week, and that is what happened with you, and you deliberately, I do not mean deliberately, you openly, obviously you did not realize you were doing anything wrong because you did it right in front of my face, you disagreed with what I was saying, and you just proceeded to teach otherwise, and you brought your books to back it up today.

 

I hope you understand what I taught here today, do you understand what I taught here today? What this means is that you need to give me a chance you see, if you hear something that I say that does not sound right to you, you need to give me the benefit of the doubt, and if you need additional explanation, I will talk to you as long as you need me to talk to you to explain it to you.

 

I know that you are a new Christian and you probably, I know you did not know you were doing anything wrong, but I hope that I have explained it to you, and you did challenge me right after the teaching. I hope that I have explained it to you, I have done it in a Godly manner, I love you both, we just had to talk about it. Is there anything anybody wants to say about it?

 

That is the issue, Christ Jesus, He teaches on a level that makes sense, He circumvents all of these slogans in the church that so many people are hurting, they are hurting, and they walk around saying, Well I have forgiven him. They made an intellectual decision to forgive, but it never touched their heart, and they need to understand this, forgiveness means let them go, let them go, you have to give up your anger. I forgive them, but I cannot give up my anger. Then you have not forgiven them, and you need to go before the Lord and say, Lord, I cannot forgiven them, I need help. Then you get free, and he gets free, but if you do not know what it means, nobody gets free, and that is the whole principle behind the doctrine of Christ, it is explaining things in the Scripture that people are completely misunderstanding in their carnal mind, they do not know what it means, it is just words to them, and the do not know what it means, and they are hurting and they are bleeding, and they have all kinds of problems in their life, and they cannot seem to get help, and they do not know what it wrong, and at some point, the Lord is going to have break this witchcraft that is over this message that is being blocked from the church at large.

 

Even if somebody starts to believe it and they mention it to their pastor, their pastor tells them to run. At some point, the Lord is going to break this witchcraft that is keeping this message from the people because it is the most marvelous liberating message I have ever heard of.

 

We just teach as best as we can until the Lord breaks the power of the saints.

 

The little horn in the book of Daniel, the whole church says the little horn is anti-Christ, but it is not, the little horn is Christ, and He is coming to break the witchcraft power of the saints, because every human born of a woman has witchcraft power, we are all born with a measure of spiritual power, and unless we deliberately, unless we are taught how to, and deliberately give that power to Christ Jesus, it automatically falls under the label of witchcraft, which means that we use it as we see best with our carnal mind, and that is the definition of witchcraft. The church is filled with witchcraft, praying what they think is best for you and what their, the opinion of their carnal mind, as to what somebody's doing right or wrong, so the people who can receive this message, we are saviors sent to the church world, they have got to be saved from their own carnal mind, but we can only do what the Lord opens the door for us to do.

 

We cannot go ahead of the anointing because then we are doing witchcraft too, and we are teachers, we are teachers, we have to be very careful, the Lord taught me early on that to teach or minister in any way because it makes me feel better, is totally unacceptable to Him, and everybody does that at the beginning, we are talking about a beginner, and then we ascend into maturity, there is a growth in the church, you know. At the beginning, when we are beginners, we do minister to make ourselves feel better, I did, and as far as I know everybody else does, it feels good to prophesy, it feels good to know something that someone else does not know, it feels good, but Peter clearly said that he used to do whatever he wanted, but then when he became mature, now someone else dresses him, and directs him.

 

When Christ Jesus takes over your life, you do not do things like that anymore, so I am not in anyway condemning them, I am just giving you this information, that a sign of spiritual maturity, is that, Christ Jesus takes over your motives, and the reason you minister to somebody is because Jesus Christ sent you to that person. I see lots of things that are wrong about people in their lives, and I do not say a word to them, I do not say anything to them, unless the Lord sends me to them. I see lots of things, the more spiritual you are, the more you see, you will be amazed at what you see. It becomes a very painful life, you see all kinds of motives in people that make you cry, you see truth in people that could make you cry. In Christ Jesus, is the whole five fold ministry, as Christ matures in us, we become apostle, pastor, teacher, evangelist, and prophet, because Christ Jesus is all of those things.

 

So long as we are, because of lack of understanding or the immaturity of pride, and everybody has pride, it is just spiritual immaturity, because of these things, we make ourselves what we would like to be in the carnal mind, Christ Jesus cannot do it through us, because we think that we are it in our carnal mind. That is why when we come to a ministry like this, especially here or when you go to CCK, it is a tearing down of the pride that is trying to replace Christ. We all have to have some pride to survive in this world, but it gets to the point where the pride of our own mind is not letting Christ come forth in us, and it is the pride of the carnal mind, it is our old man who is sitting in the temple of God, we are the temple of God, it is our old man sitting in our temple, saying that he is god, and when Christ right there formed in you already, and because of your pride, you are living out of your carnal mind, and that is the man of sin sitting in your temple calling himself god.

 

The Scripture says, that the glory of Christ Jesus is coming and going to knock him out, Christ Jesus is going to come and knock that pride out because, you belong to Christ Jesus, we are His, we are all His, and He wants to have His nature being expressed through us.

 

There is the easy way to go, or the hard way to go, and the easy way to go is to submit yourself to all of this understanding and say, Lord help me, help me to submit my carnal mind to you, so that when He comes to you, it does not have to come as a total shock of the sowing and reaping judgment, through some, I am here to scare you, but I am just telling you the truth, if you are called of God and you will not respond to His reasonable attempt to teach you, and I use to read in the Scripture where it said, Come let us reason together, in the pride of my youth, I use to say, What is the Lord saying, He said, I plead with you, Come let us reason together. I said, Why is the Lord doing that, why does He not just tell them to do it and just knock them down, and beat them up on the side of the head and you know, do whatever He has to do.

 

The Lord does not do that, because that is really hurtful, that is the sowing and reaping judgment, He does not want you to go under the sowing and reaping judgment. He wants you to hear this kind of instruction, and to go home and pray and submit yourself to Him that you should go the easy way, and not the hard way, that you should hear the correction when it comes.

 

We have a whole church world out there that is rejecting this message, and it is going to come the hard way. All of those plagues in the book of Revelation, it is for the church, they think they are going to escape when all of that happens to the rest of the world, no it is for the church, it is for all of these Christians that carry around their Bible and their bumper stickers and have all of their slogans on the walls, and their heart will not yield to the Christ in them. They are going under the corrective judgment that will knock out their pride so that Christ can be exalted in them.

 

I guess that is it for today, does anybody want to say anything before we shut off the tape? I love you all, I pray that I brought this forth in the spirit of love, that was my prayer before I came out here, and I pray that we can go forward, and all of go forward in Christ in future meetings, God bless you.

 

11/24/07 rr

 

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