The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.
We are talking about judgment and how righteous judgment or corrective judgment, the White Throne Judgment, flows through the son, and that means that my personality or whoever the son is, your personality has to be working with Christ Jesus and the Lord Jesus Christ to see the sins in the heart of the person receiving the correction. This, by very definition, is what a son is. It is someone who works with the Father, labors with the Father in the work of His Kingdom. So because I am not in perfection, and I have all kinds of human limitations, and because I don't live with you....see, another reason that judgment fell so swiftly on that other person that I just mentioned that it fell in three years was because she lived with me. So it may even have done it in half the time. I saw her every day for hours, and it is when you live your life with somebody that your weaknesses are revealed. So when you come to meetings like this, and I only see you, even if you are here three times a week you all have aspects of your life even to this day are closed to me. I hear what you tell me, but I really am not in the midst of these other aspects of your life, and the Lord has shown me that in a situation like this where people come here, even if you were here five times a week, you come in for formal meetings, and you have got a particular aspect of your personality manifested when you come in here. You all have other sides that even now I probably don't even know. So it is really hard for me to see into your heart to the point that the corrective judgment can come forth, and therefore it has taken 6 or 7 and for you almost 8 years here. I am not saying that you are phoney or anything like that. I am saying that when you come in here you are the members of this congregation, you are here to learn, and you are here to hear the Doctrine of Christ, and that's all that I see of you.
On rare occasion I have been in all of your homes. I have met your mates, and I have met some of your children so I have some idea of what your life is like, but I am very limited. I don't see you in a fight with your mate, I don't see you disciplining your children, I don't see you in the supermarket, I don't see you, so therefore it has taken all this time, and I am very aware that most of the corrective judgment that flows through me comes forth when people make mistakes. That's when I see the weakness in your heart. So here's another reason for you to be willing to give up this self preservation. Make your mistakes because when I see your mistakes I will have a better opportunity to observe your motives and whatever bondages might be in your heart or in your emotions and help you to overcome. So the more you try to preserve yourself and keep up your image, because everybody does this, it is in the Book of Revelation, everybody is wearing a mask, and everybody is keeping up their image that I'm OK, and I'm strong, and not that you should go around saying that you are weak, but it is your weaknesses that I need to see so that the Lord Jesus can strengthen you in your weaknesses. But everybody is all defensed because we all live in this world which is a jungle, and if you go out into this world and you are not defensed you will meet some wild animal in the astral plane who will eat you alive. So everybody comes in here like they come into the world, and this is not a criticism, I'm just telling you that this is what happens. So, therefore, it is a process. It is a process of receiving the Doctrine of Christ, it is a process of learning to trust me because I am not perfect, and I make a lot of mistakes, but my heart is right toward this ministry that God has given me. I am here to help you, and I may hurt you if I make a mistake here or there, but I am not out to hurt you or use you or abuse you. I am here out of faithfulness to the Lord Jesus to do my job, my imperfect job, but my intentions are right.
So it takes you time to get to trust me, and your walls start to get thinner and thinner as you trust me. Then, of course, you have to overcome your fear because you see other people experiencing the judgment, and I imagine it must be very threatening. It is just all of these things together, what's happening on your part, what I just described, and on my part my eyes have to open. My eyes have to open, and your mask, because everybody wears a mask, your mask has to dissolve and crumble. I know it happened with you suddenly, I can't remember, but I think it was more like 2 years ago, just one day your whole shell just crumbled at least for me, you know, and I saw your inner man, and we have been fighting ever since, right? We have been wrestling ever since. You really had a lot of good deliverance. See, I am really limited as to what I can do for you until I see you. You could come to me and say, I want deliverance from rebellion or I want this or that, but I've got to see it in action. I have to see it operating in your relationships, and I've got to see that motive come forth, and when my eyes are opened to it the power of Christ Jesus moves through me to destroy it. Now this is the plan of the Lord Jesus. I didn't set this up. This is how it works. I have very good discernment, but it is very rare that I look at somebody and know all about them. I've got to see you in action, see.
Off the tape we were talking about how this same situation exists in India with people who want to study under a guru. They have such a similar situation that again, it is awesome, but once again when you start following a spiritual discipline and leading a spiritual life you find out that the only difference, aside from very minor differences, the only major difference between what goes on in a Hindu ashram where you live communally with the guru and a ministry like this is the spirit. It is a different spirit. When you submit yourself for discipleship under any spirit the experiences that you have and the situations that you place yourself in are very, very similar. It is my understanding that if you want to study under a guru in India you have to move into the ashram, and the books that I read describing this explained that the Hindu disciples go through the same process. Now they don't have Christ being formed in them, but they have a good and an evil side, and again it is my understanding that at least most of the groups, if not all of them, in Hinduism lean towards the good side of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. They are not into evil works, but what they want to do is have these ascended experiences. They have a revelation that you have to cleanse yourself, they say. Now exactly what they go through I don't know. However they do it they cleanse themselves of whatever they would consider evil, and they cleave to the good side, and to do that, I read this in this book, that they have to move into the ashram with the guru so that he can help them to see what needs to be cleansed. And also that they, now I may not be using the words that were in the books because I read the book a while ago about this Hindu experience so I am using the terms that we would know, that they form a soul tie, a strong soul tie with the guru and that he really begins to engrave their mind with his nature, with the way that he thinks. That's what I am doing to you here. Christ Jesus in me is influencing you strongly, and you are changing, but it is Christ Jesus, you are changing for the better, and you are being set free. This is what I read in this book about Hinduism and gurus and ashrams, and not only that, but I read in that book that when the soul tie is established....of course, we have soul ties here, we are friends, but our main connection is our spirit tie in Christ Jesus, what we have in common is Christ Jesus so we can go out once a year and go to a movie. We don't do that every often. We go out to dinner or whatever, but the basis of our relationship....that would be a soulish tie, but the basis of our relationship is Christ Jesus in me having a relationship with Christ Jesus in you.
According to this Hindu book all of the disciples form a soul tie, a strong soul tie with the guru, they have to honor him, they have to respect him, the relationship has to be established that he is the guru and they are the disciples, but, of course, in Hinduism it goes overboard. From what I understand it really becomes idolatry. They bow and everything like that which we don't have that here. We have to find that line where there is respect and honor and right relationship, yet there is no idolatry or bondage. It is not easy, but in Christ all things are possible. There are many Hindu disciples who have experiences of their guru appearing to them in moments of trouble, and I have had people call me up and tell me, were you praying for me last night? Christ Jesus in me prays for everybody that I have a spirit tie with without ceasing. My personality does not do much praying. My prayers are very limited to statements like, Lord what do you want me to pray? Or Lord would Christ rise up in me and pray this prayer? All of my powerful prayers come from Christ Jesus manifesting in me. Me, the personality, my prayers are very limited. I'll say, Lord will you help that person? Have mercy on that person, Lord. That's the extent of my prayers, one sentence usually, one brief sentence, and then either Christ Jesus manifests and prays through me or He doesn't. Sometimes He comes back and prays through me a year later.
So I've had people call me up and say, were you praying for me last night? I have one man in mind who called me up and said, were you praying for me last night? He had just gone into a drug rehabilitation center, and he was in a lot of distress, and he said, you appeared to me in a dream. I think he was even in physical pain. Those first few nights are very hard. He said, you appeared to me in a dream, and you told me not to be afraid, and all the pain went away. So what am I going to tell him, that I wasn't praying for him? But Christ Jesus in me prays for you without ceasing. Once that spirit tie is formed, but I am not privy to all of these things that He does. God only knows how many people Christ Jesus in me ministered to that only know me through my books and tapes. My personality could not handle it. See, this has to be a supernatural ministry because I am limited by my physical strength and by the wisdom that is in my personality and by the 24-hour day. I'm limited.
So this has to be a supernatural ministry of Christ Jesus reaching out and the point of contact is the materials of this ministry, the books and the tapes. Once that material comes into your hand the Spirit of Christ has come into your hand, and you have a spirit tie with me that He flows through. See, in the Pentecostal church one of the biggest problems, well there are so many problems everywhere through the church, but a big problem is people "bringing people to the Lord." That's what they call it, bringing people to the Lord, and then they think they have to get in there and influence their lives. Then they think they have....when I say being them to the Lord, they will give them the sinner's prayer or whatever they do in the Pentecostal church, and then they think that they have to stay in touch and counsel the people and tell them how to live, but that is not right. You have to give these people over to the Lord, and I have several people in my life, I have people under me at many different levels. The people who come to the meetings, you know what's going on, you know that you are under me, and you know that you are in submission to me. I will go to you and tell you any wrong thing that I see manifesting in your heart so that you can deal with it. That's how I cover your sins, but you are in agreement with me. There are people who are in rebellion, some people I haven't heard from in years, and the Lord ministers to them through Christ Jesus in me because He set up the spirit ties, and others are just mature enough to have this kind of ministry, and the Lord just blows me in and out of their life. Every time they are in trouble He blows me into their life. I don't even know why I am there, I just start talking to them, and I have a word for them or I have a prayer for them. Sometimes I don't see them. Sometimes I just pray for them.
So we have disciples in this ministry at varying degrees of submission, and some in outright rebellion. But once that spirit tie is established it is really hard to break, I can't tell you it doesn't break, maybe if someone went into Satanism it would break, but it is really hard to break it. When necessary, the Lord brings these people into my company, and if not He will raise me up to pray for them. I believe that lots of times He is ministering to them out of the flesh of this physical body, and it completely bypasses my consciousness. I know a lot of people pass through my mind. It is just like they walk through my mind. Sometimes I have words of knowledge as to what is happening in their life, and sometimes I pray, but lots of times the Lord does not even raise up a prayer in me. So what are they doing in my mind? There is some kind of an interaction going on between Christ Jesus in me and them, and it is bypassing my conscious mind except to the extent that I perceive an image of them in my mind. To the best of my knowledge it is not taking any of my energy or my resources. I am more of an observer as to what's going on than anything else. It has to be that way. When this ministry of Christ Jesus hits the world, there are trillions of people in the world, and everybody needs personal discipleship. It is an impossibility to do it in the flesh. It has to be a supernatural ministry, and I believe that's what it will be. He's flowing, He's convicting people, He's talking to people through many different resources, and it doesn't mean you are going to be the primary person in someone's life if the Lord helps them through you. But a lot Christian's don't understand that, and they flip over into witchcraft. You have to let people go, and that is not an easy thing to do. Because of our fallen condition we all have tendencies toward witchcraft. That's the carnal mind. Witchcraft flows in the carnal mind, so our natural tendency is towards witchcraft. We want to follow up and call them up and counsel them and start telling them what to do in their lives, but we are only supposed to talk to people when Jesus raises up the conversation. When He raises it up we are only supposed to tell them what He wants us to tell them. We are supposed to be friends with them, not come in under a hard hand and say, now look, this is what you have to do unless the Lord tells us to do that.
You all know this young lady that I ministered to. She came out of witchcraft, she cried out to Jesus, and says that she wants Him, and I don't say that she wasn't honest in that, but she is filled up to overflowing with witchcraft. She was a practicing witch. So she really doesn't call me very often. I only see her once in a while. I had lunch with her a few weeks ago, and I just listened to her talk for 2 hours, and I just told her one or two things conversationally. One of the things I told her, you see I don't even know what's going on in her life that I would tell her this, but what I told her was, if you don't get deliverance....she actually said to me, well the demons love me. She actually said that to me so she is a very troubled young woman, but she has cried out to Jesus, and He really wants to help her, see. And it is going to be interesting to see how He helps her. So here I am having lunch with her, and one of the very few things that I said to her was, if you don't get rid of them it will be passed on to your children, and I just said it conversationally. I've heard this from a lot of people, that I give you wisdom, I give you wisdom, but I say it so conversationally that you don't recognize that I'm really giving you wisdom. You think I am just chatting with you. I've heard this from a lot of people, and yet this is how the Lord does it. I even thought, well maybe I should not do it that way or I should be stronger, but this is His ministry through me, this is how He does it, and you all know by now my now famous testimony that the Lord came to me, and said, drink water, and I knew it was God, and I said, I don't like water, and I didn't drink it. A few months later I would up in the emergency room in the middle of the night, and I spent almost 24 hours in complete agony, well maybe at least 15-20 hours in complete agony, and then a couple of weeks after that with bad bouts of pain until I passed a kidney stone. It cost me $500, and about two weeks that I really didn't work properly. He came to me in this very kind voice, very softly, and He said, drink water. So find that the way I minister, frequently the way I minister is the way the Lord ministers to me. I just talk to you as He moves upon me in general conversation, and most people don't realize how serious what I am saying is. I think what the Lord is telling me is that if you have any revelation at all that you are talking to a man of God, it doesn't have to be me, if it is someone through Christ Jesus really manifests, every single word out of their mouth is important. Yet, it is very hard if you are just fellow shipping with me to get your carnal mind to understand that, but every word out of my mouth is important, and Christ Jesus could manifest with no warning whatsoever right in the middle of our conversation, and He talks in the same tone as I'm talking to you. So it is very hard to hear it, yet when He does that whether you recognize it or not He counts you responsible for it, and I know that God is not unrighteous. So He knows what He's doing. This is what He does. He says, you should have been able to recognize My voice, and if you could not recognize My voice I've revealed a weakness in you, and when you don't do what I've suggested and Satan comes in and you reap what you sowed you will learn your lesson.
See, the Lord is not into the punishment business. He is a teacher, and He doesn't want to crush us with punishment. He wants us to come back to Him, He wants us to be purified so He can marry us. So His motive for whatever painful experiences we have His motive is that we should mature and come to the conclusion somewhere along the line that the wise and profitable thing to do is to return to our husband in our heart, in our mind, and in our behavior. So I said to her, if you don't get cleaned up it is going to go on your children. It was very gentle, and she didn't have very much response to it, and then it had to be 2 or 3, no more than 4 weeks later, apparently she didn't take my counsel because we go to a particular meeting, we are both in this meeting, and it is sort of a discussion group, and I usually ask the Lord what He wants me to say, and this last week I gave a very strong....I was almost preaching there, and it is a secular discussion group so I try not to use....I say God, I don't say Jesus, and I try not to say anything controversial. I'll get back and explain that to you in a minute. And I had a very strong word, and it was the same word that I gave her over lunch only it came out very strong, but it wasn't to her face. It was to the group, and when I saw her face afterwards I knew that it had cut her very deeply, and it wounded her. Now if she doesn't take the suggestion now I honestly don't know what is going to happen. The word was, if you don't get it straight it is going to go on your kids. That was the word. She is being warned that her children are in danger. The Lord is trying to help her, see, but witchcraft is as the sin of rebellion. She is filled with rebellion. So I don't know what the next step is. I have no idea.
My point is that the Lord will minister to everyone that He has connected you to. The Lord must pick up the ministry to that person. You only talk to them when the Lord raises you up to talk to them, and you only talk to them in the manner that He wants you to talk to them, but the majority of Christians minister to people that they "lead to the Lord" out of their carnal minds, and they bring the people into bondage. So our challenge in this hour is to learn how to be spiritual and learn how to minister spiritual ministry. This is our challenge in this hour because....the only way you can do this, the only way you can engage in spiritual ministry is when your carnal mind dies. So long as your carnal mind....at least she has to be beat down and inactive, so long as your carnal mind is up and active she is competing with Christ Jesus for all of the disciples. The carnal mind in the Christians is competing with Christ in the Christians for who is going to disciple these disciples, and the only way you are going to move in a spiritual ministry is if you are in agreement that your carnal mind has to be silenced so that Christ Jesus can move through you because He is not beating you up. You have to beat down your own carnal mind. You have to refuse to obey Leviathan in your carnal mind. Leviathan wants to disciple the disciples, and you have to say, no, I won't speak your words, and I won't do what you want me to do. Then when you become silent, in that silence, in that disciplined silence Christ Jesus will rise up and speak through you. Now I tell you openly that spiritual ministry does not manifest as frequently as ministry that your carnal mind would raise up for you. Maybe you have 10 people that you have led to the Lord, and you call them all up and you go visit them and you counsel all of them, and you are busy every day of the week. Spiritual ministry doesn't work like that. In spiritual ministry you live your life, you do what you do all the time, and Christ Jesus will rise up in the midst of your every day pursuits and bring forth ministry. So we must learn to be content without ministry. Brethren, everything I am telling you about yourself I was there. You look for ministry because it makes you feel good. I remember crying out to God one day saying, Lord please raise up some ministry for me. I was feeling so unhappy for whatever my reason in those days. But He's not going to give you ministry to make you happy. He gives us ministry because we are serving in His program, and the fact that we are made happy is just a side effect. It is His program, it is His ministry, we are the horse that He travels in so we have to find things in our life that make us happy other than ministry. Studying, transcribing, whatever it is that you are doing, get your needs met through your own self improvement and live your life and do as much studying, listen to as much tapes and as much spiritual reading and as much transcribing as you can and satisfy yourself that way. Praying, whatever you do, if you still speak in tongues that's OK, whatever you do. Do not look for satisfaction through ministry, and when you give up looking for satisfaction through ministry then the supernatural ministry starts to flow through you. What is the major sign of supernatural ministry? That the people will come to you, the people will come to you, and you will have an opportunity to speak with their full attention when Christ Jesus orchestrates the ministry. When He brings the people to you, when He stirs them up to ask you, when you answer their questions under these circumstances, when you answer their questions the seeds of His life go into their heart. When your carnal mind raises up the ministry the seeds of His life to not go into their heart. You see, brethren, it is His ministry, and the church is filled with witchcraft, and they are trying to steal the ministry of Christ Jesus. The only time that the seeds of His life are imparted to the people you are ministering to is when He raised up the ministry. When He raises up the ministry. He is not honoring your carnal mind. The carnal minds of the church are in competition with Christ Jesus for the children.
I have had some people say to me, but when I ministered this kind of ministry that you talked about that you usually find in Pentecostal churches is really the carnal mind, hopefully under the influence of the Holy Spirit, that I really helped people. You were the one who told me that you could not understand it because you helped so many people in those days. Why do you have to give that up now? And the answer is, yes you helped people, you helped them in their present lives, but the seed of Christ was not transmitted to them, you see? In Pentecost when we are still in our carnal mind we go from evil to good, and we help other people go from evil to good, but we are still carnal people, and everybody that goes from evil to good still dies. To move in the supernatural ministry of Christ Jesus and impart the seeds of eternal life which is the root of the Tree of Life through the Spirit of Christ that is the ministry of Christ Jesus. Your carnal mind can't do that. So every time your carnal mind ministers to somebody you might help them. Maybe you tell them something they need to hear, maybe you get them mad at you, maybe they are resentful at your ministry, but you are not imparting the Tree of Life to them. Now that doesn't mean that if someone asks you a question, let's say you are a mature person, you have some life experiences, and someone calls you up and asks you a question, it doesn't mean you shouldn't answer them if you know the answer, but you really should not be telling people what to do with their lives, you see. There is a difference between saying to somebody, well I had the same problem, and this is what happened to me, and this is what the Lord told me, and this was the fruit of it. Or you might even say to somebody, since you called me this is my opinion, but to suggest in anyway that this is the ministry of Christ Jesus is a spirit of pride rising up in you, and I know a lot of people who have this revelation. They won't even give their opinion. They will give a testimony. They will say this is what happened to me, this is what I did, this is what I learned, this is the mistake that I made, if I had it to do over again this is what I would do. You can always minister from your personal experience, but to think that you are qualified to tell people what to do, unless it is the Spirit of Counsel which not many people have. Unless it is actually Christ Jesus speaking through you, we really should not do it because it is a spirit of pride, and that ministry of pride in the carnal mind will sustain us in the carnal mind and Christ Jesus will never come forth in us.
So the way it is, brethren, we have to give up what we have and then wait for however long it takes, I don't even know if it is the same for everybody, until the supernatural ministry manifests. You have to be willing to give up what you have. I know ministry is very exciting. It is exciting when you pray for people, and you see them healed. I'm not suggesting that you give up anything that you have now, but I am suggesting that you put this issue before the Lord, and that you ask Him to remove any ministry that you are engaged in that is hindering your moving into Christ Jesus or any personal ministry that you are engaged in that He doesn't want you to continue to be engaged in. It may have been OK yesterday, but it is not OK today. Ask Him to be in complete control of your life, and that you now have this revelation that there are two kinds of ministry, and that you really would like to move into the ministry in Christ Jesus, and, of course, you have to mean this if you say it. I'm just giving you a guideline prayer here. You have to mean it if you are going to say it, if you are going to pray it. And that you are fully in agreement with any ministry that He removes from you that is in your carnal mind and because it is in your carnal mind it is hindering you from moving into the supernatural ministry of Christ, you are willing to give it up if He takes it away from you. If HE takes it away from you. You don't want Satan taking it away from you.
So that is the difference between the two ministries. Even if the carnal mind is under the influence of the Holy Spirit, if you want to move into the supernatural ministry you have to be willing to give up what you have and ministry feels good. It feels good when you help people, it feels good when you have knowledge that someone else doesn't have, and you can share it, it feels good. It is not necessarily malignant pride, it just feels good to have the answer for people, but if you want the new the old has to be taken away. Unfortunately for our carnal mind because we know God is righteous so I can't really say unfortunately, but our carnal mind has a problem with giving up what we have and going for a season without. But those of us who are moving in this spiritual ministry that's here He has not left us without anything. We have the tapes, we have the transcribing, we have the books, we have the meetings, we have a lot to satisfy us. We don't have to be satisfied by ministering to other people. Really, that is another aspect of this ministry to other people that comes out of our carnal mind. Even if it is under the influence of the Holy Spirit the Lord will use it. As long as that's where you are in your walk and you are still doing it He will use it, you see, but it is ministry away from yourself. It is not building Christ in you. It is giving you energy outward. It is not building Christ in you. If you want to build Christ in you the energy has to come into you with your studying, your books, your tapes, and your transcribing. That builds Christ in you.
Some people just go through this process faster than others so I want to give you a testimony for somebody, and you just have to understand that some people are naturally spiritual, and they move into it faster. I'm giving you a testimony, but keep your eyes on yourself and just work on your own program, OK? This person who seems to be moving in very quickly by going to that other church in that other state that I told you about, they just had such a lust to teach when the Lord first sent them here, such a lust to teach and tried to raise up a couple of Bible studies and really just had a lust to teach. I had to tell them several times, if you want to teach you have to give up your lust to teach because everything you are doing is in the flesh. Well, I don't know whether they had a stronger will power or whatever it was it doesn't matter, everybody is on their own path, well he gave it up, and then he was given this assignment in this church, and he went in there. I gave him a whole list of warnings, you know. Don't try and teach, don't try and show what you know, don't mention this doctrine, and don't say anything about this doctrine unless someone asks you a specific question. I gave him a whole list of what not to do and how to handle himself in this church. He went in there, and he was going there for several times and never said a word except hello and goodbye, and then one day the pastor asked him a question, and he had the opportunity to say whatever he wanted to say, and it was the word of the Lord to them. Do you see what I am saying? Spiritual ministry comes to you, and it comes supernaturally. So if somebody is calling you, some carnal Christian is calling you for counsel it doesn't necessarily mean that it is God. It could be God, but you should check it out. It doesn't necessarily mean that it is God. It could be forming an unGodly dependency with you or it could be Satan sending them in to drain your energy. Our whole lives should be given over to the Lord in every aspect. Everything that's not building Christ....the prayer should be, Lord everything that's not building Christ in me that you want to remove I'm in agreement with anything that you do. And that is how you are going to go forward, and that's how the supernatural ministry manifests. Your carnal mind has to get out of the way for supernatural ministry to manifest. You have to be quiet, not out there looking to teach, you have to be quiet, and then He will rise up at will. It is very exciting when He does it, but even with me it doesn't happen that often so we have to be satisfied other ways. We have got a lot of satisfaction in this ministry, we have got a lot of food in this ministry, a lot of good things in it, a lot of good ways to keep ourselves spiritually stimulated, and ways that will build Christ Jesus in us.
I want to comment on something that I had said earlier. At this secular meeting with this discussion group I said it is highly unlikely for me to mention the name of Jesus. I just say God, and I would like to explain that on this tape. Some Christians get offended at that, and they say, well why won't you name the name of Jesus? What you need to understand is that the word J-E-S-U-S, Jesus, is not the name of Jesus. The name of Jesus is the spirit of Jesus. The Spirit of Christ is the name of Jesus. It is not a spoken word. It is not a spoken word. Paul said that he became all things to all men, and when your carnal mind is down low, and Christ Jesus is manifesting through you or teaching through you or speaking through you, you are naming the name of Jesus because whoever is hearing you that receives your word receives the spirit that spoke the word. The name of Jesus is the spirit of Jesus, and when it is Christ Jesus speaking through you the person or the people who are absorbing what you are telling them, they are not resisting you, throwing it off, the people who are absorbing what you are saying receive the spirit that's speaking the words, and you have ministered Christ to that person. Your speech has ministered Christ to that person, but your language has not. You don't have to say J-E-S-U-S. In more instances than not it puts people off and chases them away from you. They feel offended, and they feel pressured, and the jaws of their mind close, they don't want to hear it, and even if their mind would be open to hear it if you are walking in a mentality where you think you have to say the word J-E-S-U-S the chances are just 100% that your ministering out of your carnal mind, and you may tell them something that will help them, but they are not getting the Spirit of Christ which is the seed of the root of the Tree of Life.
Brethren, we have to minister to men of all religions and all nations, and the ministry of Christ Jesus does not go to people of other nations and other religions and say, Jesus is alive but Buddha is dead. Christ doesn't say that. Now I know that there are many conversions in the church, you hear of people being converted out of Hinduism, people being converted out of Buddhism, people being converted out of Islam, you hear of it in the church, and these conversions, to whatever degree the person is converted, comes forth from the Holy Spirit, and I can't really explain to you how I know that it is not a deep conversion. It is a surface conversion that they have gone from their false beliefs to the false doctrine in the Pentecostal church, but the important thing is that they have received the Holy Spirit, and from there He has to do with them whatever He wants to do with them. But the true conversion is the receiving of the seed of Christ Jesus in your heart, and the Holy Spirit is not Christ Jesus. The Holy Spirit is just the beginning of the cleansing of the waters. What I am saying is that there are some people, some Hindus, some Buddhists, some Muslims, that when they hear Jesus is alive, but Allah is dead that they are still going to come and have an experience with the Holy Spirit, and I don't know what it is in that person's life that they will respond to that kind of teaching, but apparently there are people who do respond to it. But there are many more people in the world in these other religions, brethren, that are not going to respond to it, and they are going to be hostile to you even if they don't show it to your face. Christ doesn't minister like that. That is an arrogant spirit, brethren. That is an arrogant spirit to go to somebody and say, Jesus is alive but Buddha is dead. I've heard it preached. Jesus is alive, Buddha is dead, Allah is dead, the gods of Hinduism are dead, only Jesus is alive. Well, what does that mean to a Hindu? You tell them their gods are dead yet maybe they have had experiences of astral projection, maybe they have experienced the god of this world, maybe they have been blessed by the god of this world, and you tell them their god is dead, they look at you like you are crazy.
Brethren, the Spirit of Christ and the name of Jesus is a spirit that goes forth from you inhabiting the words that you speak when those words are His words. When Christ Jesus speaks through you, through your personality, through your mouth, through your vocal chords, through your words, His spirit inhabits the words that go forth, and words are living things. Words create thought forms. They are living things, and the spirit and the thought forms go forth to the people who receive what you have to say. That is the name of Jesus; therefore, with this spiritual understanding of what the name of Jesus is, what the spiritual understanding of spiritual speech and spiritual communication is, and what the understanding that spirit is imparted through agreement. If you agree with what I say you receive the spirit that I say, that I'm speaking in, or the spirit that's speaking through me. With this understanding I come to the conclusion that it is absolutely pointless to make it a point to say that word J-E-S-U-S, to ram it down people's throats. People resent it, they don't think highly of you because of it, and they put up walls against it, and resist you. If you want to minister in the Spirit of Christ minister His knowledge and His wisdom and His kindness, and they will receive His spirit. But, of course, the Lord Jesus has to raise up the opportunity for you to speak, and it doesn't have to be religious. It doesn't have to be the Doctrine of Christ. It can be wisdom that will bring deliverance from the torments of this world.
What I said in that discussion group, in brief, was a testimony that there was a time in my life where there was that terrible bondage in my life. A large percentage of my relationships ended in a harsh end, and the people would go out of my life, and I would never see them again, and there would be no forgiveness. At one point as I was moving on in Christ I would go after people who are walking out of my life and beg them to reconcile, and they would not. So this hardness was in my life. It is not here any more, but this hardness was in my life. It was a curse, and because Jesus had mercy on me, and He was cleaning up my whole life this situation did come to an end, and after the situation disappeared from my life I received a phone call from my father's sister who I had not seen in 40 years, and both of my parents died not having spoken to her in all this time. My parents cut off, my father's mother and his sister and his brother and the whole family, all the aunts and uncles, the whole extended family my parents cut off, and I'm not about to pass judgment on why they cut them off or what happened. I am sure there was wrong things being done on both sides, but I do not believe that it is God's will to cut people off out of your life like that. You don't have to live with them, you don't have to see them every week, but it is not a Godly thing to do, especially relatives, and especially a mother no matter what she does because the commandment clearly says, Honor your Father and Mother and you live long on the earth. It doesn't say honor them if they did you right, it doesn't say honor them only if they don't hurt you, it doesn't say honor them if you like the way they live. It says to honor your father and mother and live long on the earth. So we see that curses or premature death are associated with dishonor of parents, and I am one of three children. All three of us almost died at an early age. One sister died in her 40's, left three children. I would have been dead, I think also, in my 40's. I had three heavy curses of death broken on my life in that 5 years that I was in deliverance ministry. I surely would have died. My other sister was very ill in her 20's, but she survived, but she has had tormenting and painful experiences to do with infirmity. Now, what's wrong with this family? I cried out for years, what's wrong with this family? And I get a phone call from my aunt after both of my parents are dead, and she tells me that her heart was....first of all she was so excited that I would talk to her. She just called in one last desperate effort, maybe they will talk to me. She didn't know her brother was dead, and I welcomed her with open arms, and she cried, and said, for 40 years I have been crying and praying and asking God why this happened to me, what had I done that was so terrible that this happened to me? And to my mother, and to my brother, what did we do that was so terrible? And the Lord quickened to me that what my parents did to them was happening to me, and that the curses of premature death were on this whole generation, my two sisters and me, and that those people, my father's relatives were praying people. And because they were praying people the judgment fell on the very next generation. That's fast. That is very fast to see the judgment of premature death fall on the next generation. This was the testimony that I gave. It is urgently essential to be at peace with all men. I must have said it three or four times, it is urgently essential, urgently important to be at peace with all men especially relatives because what my parents did to his relatives was happening to me, and I would not use the sowing and reaping judgment. I spoke to them in their language. I said what goes around comes around. It is urgently important to be at peace with all men especially relatives because what goes around comes around, and if it doesn't get you it is going to get your kids. That's what I said in that strong tone. And the whole group was in such shock they couldn't even respond. It was like a dead silence in the room. Nobody came against me. I can tell when people come against me. Nobody came against me. They were just in shock, and after the meeting nobody even came near me. They could not cope with it. It was all beyond their conscious mind. Nobody even came near me. I just walked out, and I left. It was a very hard word, and brethren, I want to tell you I wouldn't say Jesus, I didn't even mention God in that testimony, I didn't mention the word judgment, I didn't mention the word sowing and reaping, I used their language, what goes around comes around, I didn't say curse. I said, if it doesn't get you, it will get your kids. I didn't say you are cursed until the fourth generation, but I gave the word of the Lord to those people, and they received it through the Spirit of Christ, and seeds went into them that will bring ultimate deliverance to some of them at least, and I never mentioned the name of Jesus, but I ministered life to them. I ministered the life of Christ to them, and I never mentioned the name of Jesus or even God. It is essential that we get this into our understanding.
The true ministry of Christ is not knocking on someone's door and saying, do you know that Jesus loves you? You know, people think you are crazy. Most of them would be kind to you, and say, yes, I know He does, thank you. What have you accomplished, what have you given them? Nothing. So we must die to our carnal mind and we must die to carnal ministry if we have the hope of spiritual ministry blooming in us and arising in us. There is very little glory in spiritual ministry. People, most of the time, don't even know that you have ministered to them because you just talk to them in casual conversation most of the time. Your words come forth as your opinion, just conversationally. There is no glory in spiritual ministry. There is a lot of excitement in it when you realize what God has done, but with regard to the person that you are ministering to there is no personal glory. There is glory to God, but there is no personal glory because nobody knows what happened. It is a secret ministry, brethren. The ministry of Christ Jesus is a secret ministry. It is a ministry that comes out of the....well, Christ Jesus is on the mental plane. It comes out of the mental plane of Christ Jesus. It doesn't come forth....obviously, it comes forth in this visible plane, but it is not obvious in this visible plane. So this is a good opportunity, a message like this is a good opportunity to look at your own heart, and anyone whose root motive for ministering is to exalt themselves, if that is your root motive I don't condemn anybody, everybody has pride, if it is your root motive to exalt yourself, if that is why you like to minister because you like to feel important or you want people to think that you are so wise or that you have so much importance, if that is your root motive you may be able to help somebody here or there, maybe you do have information that they need, but you cannot impart the Spirit of Life to them, see. If that is your root motive then the mind that is ministering through you is the carnal mind. Your motives come out of your mind so if there is self glorification, if there is self exaltation in it and you are convinced that there is nothing wrong with it, that you really just feel good about what you did, then it is the carnal mind, and the spirit of the carnal mind is Satan ministering through you. Even if you help the person because Satan is good and evil, but the Spirit of Life is not in it. Supernatural ministry is very, very exciting, but it doesn't rise every day so you have to just really give up the idea of ministry, just give it up and live your life, and when it appears in you it appears.
Are there any questions or comments on anything that I've said so far? (End of Tape)