445 - 1 Part
ASCENSION, CONSCIOUSNESS AND VIBRATION

Illustrations:                    

L.445.1.1.M.ASCENSION CONSCIOUSNESS AND VIBRATION   L.445.1.2.M.ASCENSION CONSCIOUSNESS AND VIBRATION

 

The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For
Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By
The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.

 

Praise the Lord! We saw a Star Trek episode today. It had to do with different levels of consciousness and the effect that ascension in consciousness has on the physical body, and more specifically, that ascension in consciousness to a high enough plane will cause the physical body to disappear. Ascension in consciousness is correlated to increase in vibration. We all vibrate. We have talked about that quite a bit here recently, the planet spinning on it is axis and orbiting around the sun. We ourselves are vibrating. If we could see ourselves with spiritual eyes we would a blazing ball of fire, because we are energized. Spirit is energy, we are all energized, and the spirit is flowing in and out of the physical earth.

 

Each one of our cells, we have trillions of cells, each cell is vibrating. The organ, which is a mass of cells is vibrating. Every aspect of ourselves is vibrating. The rate of speed that we, or the general overall speed that we vibrate at, indicates how our external crust appears. If you want to think of ourselves as a sun, we have an external crust, and our external crust is this physical body. This physical body is a direct reflection of the condition of our consciousness and the placement of our consciousness. We are spirit. This physical body is merely a house or earth that is wrapped around our consciousness.

 

So, depending where along the planes of existence, or the planes of nature (we do not worship nature here, but it is true, there are planes of consciousness in nature), we are down here, and we know that the Serpent has, that the term nature is talking about the Serpent, mother nature. This is her timeline and we are abiding in her timeline. So the planes of nature are true for us too, we do exist in the planes of nature. As our consciousness ascends it affects our physical body. It can affect us health-wise, within the degree of dimensions where we still continue to have a physical body.

 

The placement of our consciousness can effect that physical body, health-wise, and in general, appearance-wise and state of well being, with regard to our happiness and contentment and joy, but there is a line that, when we cross over, causes our body to disappear to this plane of consciousness. Most people have eyes that are just opened on this physical plane, so we do not see the rest of the planes of consciousness that flow through us.

 

Drawing #1, which is not on the board right now, but if you are reading this message you will have a Drawing of #1. Drawing #1 is just a general drawing showing the seven planes of consciousness, and there is a dot down at the bottom of it indicating the point where all these planes meet. What you have in that first drawing is a series of what is called concentric circles. That means a series of circles that have a point at which they are all equal, and that point in the first drawing is down at the bottom right.

 

Now, in the second drawing I have drawn a little man down at the bottom of each set of concentric circles, but of course, this is not accurate. The energy fields, or the planes of consciousness, flow through our entire body, not just through our head. These drawings are just to present spiritual principles. The main point that I am trying to show you here is that we have two men who are physically separated and they could be, the reality of this condition is that they could be on opposite sides of the world, but they could be on opposite sides of the world and their emotions could be entangled. Their physical bodies are separate, but over here, the red line shows the path of ascension, the red vertical lines show the paths of ascension, and the red horizontal line shows that both of these men, if they are conscious in their emotions...

 

Just about everybody has consciousness in this physical world. We also have simultaneous consciousness in our emotions, although some people do not feel their emotions. Some people are deadened to their emotions, some people are very sensitive to their emotions, and these two men are both sensitive, or their consciousness is active in their emotions, and they have an emotional tie. And as you can see, their etheric double, or the planes of consciousness that flow through them which is beyond their etheric double (some people might say aura, the energy fields, that surround every human being).

 

If you are a Christian and you are reading this and you are upset I am sorry, it is just a reality. We have energy fields that surround us. They have been captured, I do not know if by x-ray or ultraviolet ray, I may have the wrong ray, but they have been captured. They have been seen in photographs that we have all these different levels of energy, that is another way of saying planes of consciousness, dimensions flowing through us, and they go out way beyond us. They can be ten- to eighteen feet beyond us, depending on how active we are, or how strong our mind or our emotions is. 

 

This energy vibrated out from us, and there is no time or space in the spirit. It touches other people. Our energy can be a weapon. It can kill if the person is strong enough. It can make sick, or it can heal. It is the truth of our existence. So we have human beings who are physically separated, but we see that the other spiritual dimensions which are in the midst of them and flow through them can touch other human beings, even though they are physically separate.

 

This is what Paul was talking about when he said, This is a great mystery, but a man and his wife, they are one flesh. Brethren, you live together, you make a life together, you sleep together, you make babies together, you better believe that you are entangled on the emotional level and hopefully on the mental level -- although you may not be, that is unfortunate if a man and his wife do not have a mental tie -- but usually you have a mental tie also. You know what each other is thinking, you can anticipate, that is a tie on the lower mental plane. It is a tie that is in the carnal mind.

 

I think that is a word that is even in the King James, to become "entangled" with the things of this world. So we can become entangled. We have all of these planes of consciousness flowing through us. Now, brethren, if you are walking down the street, you know that you have to protect your body, you are not going to step into a manhole. You know it is going to hurt your body. Probably, or hopefully, you are not going to be looking at pornography or reading pornographic stories, you know it is going to hurt your mind, but do we secure ourselves in other areas that we are not aware of? I do not think so. I think many of us walk into ungodly soul ties, ungodly emotional ties, because we do not realize the danger.

 

Your emotions can get entangled with somebody else's emotions, and if your emotions get entangled with an unscrupulous or a mentally ill person, they can manipulate your emotions. Most people can be manipulated by pain or pleasure. The more disciplined the person is, the less likely they are to be manipulated in their emotions. Men and women who have been trained in the military and secret ops or black ops (FBI, and spy organizations), they are trained professionals. They are trained to not respond to the pain and pleasure in their emotions, but the average person is completely manipulated with pain and pleasure in their emotions. So you get an emotional tie in the astral plane with somebody that is unscrupulous, that is strong in their mind in an evil way, and will use that tie to manipulate you, you have got a problem. Let me tell you, you do not just lay hands on somebody and say, I break the soul tie, and have it broken. You lay hands on somebody and say, I break the soul tie, and it begins to break and you have got some fight on your hands, breaking it.

 

So we must guard ourselves on every one of these levels. And then we have higher mental tie, a higher mental mind, which is Christ, which is in doctrine, we do not want to be picking up any false doctrine, neither do we want to be afraid. We have to guard ourselves on every level, but we have to know that we have all these dimensions flowing through ourselves to guard ourselves. We have to know in what areas we are children. We have to able to admit that we are ignorant in certain areas, or we are making ourselves completely vulnerable. We are children in certain areas. I am still a child in many spiritual areas, there is so much I do not know. We have to walk very carefully following after Jesus.

 

So basically, this is all that I wanted to show you. I would like to do one more drawing just showing where the man's consciousness has ascended to a higher plane, a plane high enough for his physical body to disappear. I do not think I fully made the point though, that as we ascend, we vibrate more and more violently, rapidly or sometimes violently. The slower that we are vibrating, the more solid we are.

 

I remember years ago, I did the study, #18 Series, and we believed the Scripture was saying, at that time, that Jehovah put Adam into a deep sleep. We now know that it was not Adam that was put into the deep sleep, but it was Adamah, the earth, which is the Serpent, but that is another story.

 

At the time, I did another word study on sleep, and the definition was, to slow down or to become solid, to slow down and become solid. So the Adamah descended, or if you want to think it was Adam, I do not want to emphasize the issue right now whether Jehovah put Adam or the Adamah, which is the earth to sleep. That is not the issue, the issue is that Jehovah put something to sleep, and what that meant was that whether it was the earth, or whether it was Adam, their rate of vibration slowed down. I just told you a few minutes ago that everybody and everything is vibrating, nothing is solid, it is an illusion that it is solid. Everything is vibrating. So, whatever it was that Jehovah put to sleep, as Jehovah pronounced the judgment upon her or him, the rate of vibration of that entity started to slow down.

 

The word descend is synonymous with to slow down, and eventually mankind, the civilized man that Elohim had brought forth, descended into this physical body. At this point, I am believing this is where I am right now, that the beings, or the man on the other side of the flood, had an etheric body, but this dense physical body which is a prison house was not wrapped around him before the flood, this was the final stage of the fall.

 

We are in prison, we are spiritual men and we are in prison. We are in prison in this physical body; we are are trapped here. I do not know about you, but I do not know how to get out. I am hoping to get out through Christ Jesus, but I could not get myself out today, I do not know how to ascend in consciousness so that if a man had a gun, I could escape from the bullet or escape from the man.

 

A sister called the other day with a testimony about persecution going on somewhere, and this was a particular testimony of a man who was threatened with being brutalized by the police, and when they tried to grab him, they could not grab him. Their hands went right through him. This sister was all excited, and she says (which is because she reads all these messages), Well, what do you think happened? Was he in his etheric body, that they could not grab him? And I have to agree with her, that when Jesus gave this man that miracle that the guards could not lay hands on him, the way Jesus did it was that He laid hold of this man's consciousness and raised it up to a point where it was his etheric body, or his astral body -- I do not know what point it was, but He raised the man's consciousness beyond this physical plane, yet the man was still visible. So, she was probably right.  He probably did raise the man's consciousness up to the etheric level, and the guards could not lay hold of him.

 

If I am standing next to you, and my consciousness is in the etheric body and your consciousness is in the physical body, that means that every atom and every spiritual atom, every aspect of my being is vibrating at a much more rapid rate of speed than the atoms in your body are vibrating. When I say atoms I mean beyond the physical atoms, I am talking about right down to the spiritual atoms, right down to the grass roots. You are vibrating at a much slower rate of speed then I am vibrating if my consciousness is in the etheric plane, and you cannot lay hold of me, your hands go through me.

 

This is a reality of physics. I do not know that anybody had experienced it. I think that if the King James translation is correct, when Jesus appeared to the disciples, at one point He looked like to them -- His consciousness may have been in the etheric plane, if the translation is correct. But generally speaking, the human beings that we know, everybody is down here in the physical plane. We know that there are Scriptures that say that Jesus hid himself from the Pharisees. He must have ascended in His consciousness, high enough to physically disappear. That might be the astral plane. But the man in this testimony, he was very visible. He must have looked normal. If he did not look normal, if he looked like a ghost I would think the police would have been frightened, so he looked normal, but they could not lay hold of him. He was vibrating to rapidly.

 

To the beings on this plane, on this physical plane, he was no longer solid. There was nothing to grab hold of, it is like trying to grab water. The rest of the testimony was that the police came at him with a saw or something. What do you call that kind of saw, they use it in all the gangster movies? They were going to cut his arms and legs off. I have seen it in a couple of gangster movies (and the Lord told me not to watch gangster movies anymore), but one of the last ones that I saw, I think it was Scar Face, it was the Cuban mafia, whatever criminals, drug dealers, etc., if they want to threaten you and they want you to talk or whatever, they come after you with a buzz saw. I think that is what it was, an electric saw. They did cut a couple of his limbs off, and he did not feel a thing. So that is a witness to my position to Jesus' pain consciousness on the cross. I do not believe He felt a thing.

 

The way the Lord dealt with it, the man did not feel a thing, and then there was some interruption. And I do not know what happened to the police, but he was taken to the hospital and they sewed his limbs back on, and he felt no pain. We have all heard testimonies like this here and there, but we never knew how Jesus did it. That is how He does it. He comes within us and raises our consciousness up to a higher level so that our whole being and every aspect of our being is vibrating at a rate of speed that, either we do not feel pain, or the other men cannot lay hold of us. That is how He does it, and there will a point that, when we ascend to that point, that just by thinking it we will be able to ascend or descend in consciousness. That is what Jesus did.

 

When the Scripture says, with regard to the adulterous woman, that Jesus bent down and wrote in the ground, Jesus did not physically stoop down. He came down into a lower plane of consciousness and He wrote in her ground. He engraved her nature with the nature of Jehovah so that she would not be an adulteress anymore.

 

So we know that Jesus ascended and descended in consciousness, and the Scriptures talk about the angels going up and down Jacob's ladder. It is not a physical ascension and descension. It is and ascension and descension in consciousness. Why would we ascend or descend in consciousness? To relate to different people, to accomplish different goals, to disappear to protect ourselves, to become not solid so that we cannot be hurt, or to relate to explain things to other human beings, to do the work of God. God is invisible, but He desires to communicate with his people, and we are the garments. We are the flesh that He is girding himself with so that He can communicate with other people, but we have to come in submission to Him, He must rule from within us.

 

Did you have something you wanted to say?

 

COMMENT: When I left the meeting this morning I was behind a car and I read a bumper sticker that said, We are not human beings having a spiritual experience, we are spiritual beings having a human experience.

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well that is true, that is true.

 

I will draw one more drawing just to show the man's consciousness in the higher centers. I have even seen cartoons where Bugs Bunny  finds a zipper at the bottom of his feet and zips himself up, so there are a lot of people who have known for a long time about this condition of consciousness, but it is new to us here. It is new to us here, but we need to know this because this is also how Jesus healed. When we come to a place where by thinking it, we can ascend or descend in consciousness, we come to a place where we can heal ourselves.

 

Those of us that are regulars in this message, we are really hoping for a change that will result in a healing. A lot of us have physical problems. The explanation is that as soon as Christ was conceived in us, the Holy Spirit which was part of the seed that produced the embryo of Christ, does not exist anymore, just as the male sperm no longer exists, or the ovum no longer exists, when the first cell of the human embryo is formed. The Holy Spirit ceases to exist, and that is why the gifts start to pass away, and that is why the healing falls away. A lot of people are devastated. Why isn't God healing me anymore? Because we are in the wilderness experience.

 

If you have come to that point, I am not telling you that if you are reading this message that the Holy Spirit cannot heal you, but if you have a physical ailment, and you have done everything you know how, and you have prayed, and you have been in meetings where other people are being healed and miracles are happening, and you are not healed, this could be devastating to you if you think the Lord is not healing you. Understanding is essential.

 

We must have this understanding, that once Christ is being formed in you, it is not likely that you will be healed by an outpouring of the Holy Spirit in a group meeting. Jesus can do anything that He wants, but I am telling you, it is not likely that it is going to happen to you. Why is not likely? Because from the little bit that I know that the Lord has shown me about His ways, it appears to me that once Christ begins to be formed in us, we have to sort of just stick it out until Christ becomes mature enough to heal us, because the Holy Spirit is gone. Now we are are waiting for the manchild to mature and heal us. It becomes a wilderness experience.

 

What do we do between the time that we lose the Holy Spirit and the time that Christ is mature enough to heal us? Well, what do we do if we have a physical problem? What do we do? Anybody? 

 

COMMENT: Ask for the waves of energy to go toward that a person?

 

PASTOR VITALE: No, we have tried everything, we have tried everything. Yes, what do we do?

 

COMMENT: Endure?

 

PASTOR VITALE: (chuckle) Anybody else? Last, but not least, let this sister try it.

 

COMMENT: Ask the Lord what else you contributed to it?

 

PASTOR VITALE: You go to the doctor! You say to the Lord, I have done everything that I know how to do, and I am suffering and I am in pain, and there is no healing. I am asking you permission to go the doctor, and if I do not hear anything from You to the contrary, I think the intelligent thing to do is to go to the doctor. So I am believing You, Lord, if for any reason you do not want me to do that, you are going to turn me around, but reason tells me that I should go to the doctor, and you go to the doctor! But first, you try everything else and you ask His permission, and then, if you still do not hear from Him, you say, Well, Lord, I am going to go, knowing that I have done everything, that I have submitted myself to You, and even this last minute, if You do not want me to go to the doctor, please turn me around. Have mercy on me, I am just dust, I am in pain, and I want to honor You, but I have got a problem here. And you go to the doctor.

 

So we are in this wilderness experience, but we have this hope that this manchild will rise in us with healing in His wings. He is our Sun of Righteousness, and we have this hope that the healing will start again, but from a different source. Not from the Holy Spirit, but from Christ Jesus within us. What is the difference in the healing? The healing that comes from the Holy Spirit within you is a Band-aid. He will heal you if it is the Lord's will, but He will not heal your potential to be sick. So, the condition can return or it will possibly arise in manifestation of different disease. The Holy Spirit does not heal that root in you that makes you vulnerable to the disease, He just heals you of that disease at that moment. But when Christ Jesus arises, He heals the whole root in you that is producing illness in this flesh, and you are healed of everything. And eventually you receive eternal life, or preservation in the flesh.

 

Spiritual ascension into higher planes of consciousness is associated with an increased rate of vibration. You see, we are already vibrating at an increased rate of vibration. If you are into this message like the people in this group, and you are reading these messages for years, and you are capable of discussing the doctrine of Christ, you are already capable of vibrating at a higher rate of vibration. Now, you may not be doing this every time, but when we sit in a meeting like this, and when you read a message, or when you are thinking about the doctrine of Christ and questioning the Lord about the doctrine of Christ, you need to know that your rate of vibration has increased, and that this increase of vibration in you can be very distressing to another human being who is not swinging at that rate of speed. You are not in unison.

 

Vibration can be seen as a pendulum swinging. So if you are up against somebody who is swinging at a different rate of speed, you could be bumping into him. You could be bumping into him on the mental plane and he could feel great distress in his emotions. You could be knocking into him in the astral plane and setting ripples going out in his sea, the astral plane is where the sea is. Now we need to know that when we come in contact with people who are carnal, even carnal Christians who have a very basic understanding of the Scripture, Christians who are seeing the Scripture in physical way, who still believe in the physical rapture (and I am not putting these people down, but I am telling you that they are spiritual children). People who see the Scripture carnally are spiritual children, and if you start trying to raise up a conversation with them on a higher level, you can cause distress in their emotions.

 

You may not be aware of it now, but you have to get aware of it, because when the doctrine of Christ starts flowing, when our mind starts vibrating at the rate of speed that is necessary to talk about deep the deep things of God, these vibrations that are coming out of our mind are affecting the emotional plane of the person that you are talking to. If they have not been prepared by the Lord to receive what you are saying to them, you are damaging them, even though you may not see it at the moment. You need to know that you are damaging them, that you are causing them distress. Or, even if at the moment they do not perceive it as distress, like, for example, that young boy that we were talking to at the table at the convention. If he goes back to the elders and just possibly even repeats some of the conversation which may have seemed harmless to us, the elder might get all upset and say, What was that person talking to this eighteen-year-old boy about?

 

We have no idea what kind of a ripple effect we start when we talk to people, and that is why we really must keep these pearls to ourselves and only bring forth even the slightest strain of deep doctrine if we are sure that is it is the Lord, because we damage people. I have got to get that into your head. You have got to get that into your head that we are sending off vibrations, powerful vibrations, when we start bringing forth these deep truths, no matter how basic it may seem to us, because compared to where we were a few years ago, we have really ascended. I do not know how high we are compared to the people in the occult that are beyond us in knowledge, but of course, we are vibrating in Christ Jesus. We are a powerful weapon. We do not know how powerful we are. We are a powerful weapon, and when we start thinking in these terms, even if we do not voice it, as our upper mind starts vibrating we are are causing waves in the emotions of the people that we are are talking to, and it may be doing them more harm than good.

 

So we have really got to hold on to these pearls, we have got to know that the mysteries of Christ are in our heart, and that we are really not to share them unless the Lord makes it obvious that He has opened the door for such a sharing. We are weapons. We can be likened to someone with a black belt walking down the street, or a professional boxer. They know that they cannot get into a fight with somebody because if they hurt someone they could be charged with a criminal crime of attacking someone with a deadly weapon. We are weapons. We have got to what we are. We are spiritually dangerous.

 

We must have more restraint than the average Christian, who is not dangerous. We are dangerous. So Jesus said, Be as wise as Serpents and harmless and lambs. Now why would He tell us to be harmless as lambs if we were not capable of doing harm? We are capable of doing great harm. Even in our anger, we should asking the Lord continually to help us with anger. It is not only doctrine, it is anger, the whole thing! We are dangerous, we are dangerous.

 

And I confess to you freely, I have told you before, and I will put it on this message, the way the Lord showed it to me one day. I was at my computer, and Xxxx was in the kitchen cooking. I got annoyed at her for something, I got mad at her, it was like a quick flash of anger through my mind, and I am telling you, within five seconds, she dropped a dish. I just knew, there was not a doubt in my mind, that my anger had hit her and she dropped a dish. The Lord convicted me immediately. I knew it, and I knew it without a question of a doubt. So if you think that you are angry at somebody and nobody knows it, and even if you think that you are angry at somebody and Jesus knows it, that is not enough. You have got to know that your anger is vibrating out from you and touching people. And it was not just because she was in the next room. If she was at home it would have touched her at home. There is no time or space in the spirit. We are walking weapons.

 

I do not think I am going to draw that third drawing. I would like to preach the message that I was supposed to preach. This was a surprise message. I will just show you on this chart by pointing to it. This is Drawing #2. At the point that the man's consciousness ascends up here into the, I think it is the 6th or 7th level, the physical body disappears.

 

I will comment briefly on Jesus' ascension because that question came up as we watched that Star Trek episode. I was asked, How did Jesus ascend? The person who asked me was still thinking that He physically raised off the earth, so now when someone says something like that to me, that tells me that there are a lot of other people thinking the same thing, and that is why I would like to address the issue.

 

The fact that the Scripture says that Jesus ascended, we are assuming that He physically ascended, but the Scripture does not say that He physically ascended. I suggest to you that the Scripture is indicating that His consciousness ascended, and as His consciousness ascended He became less and less solid until He disappeared. His feet never left the ground, but His physical body became less and less solid, just like that man whose consciousness ascended into the etheric plane so that the solid man's hand went right through him when he tried to grab him.

 

Jesus kept getting less and less solid -- the word is rarer. I know it is not a common use of the word rare, but it is a legitimate use of the word, and it is the only word that I could think of right now to describe what happens to the physical body of someone whose consciousness who is ascending. Their physical body becomes rarer, less dense, and rarer and rarer. The density of the body becomes systematically diminished until the physical body disappears. Now, the person has not disappeared. All these planes of consciousness exist right here in the same place, we just cannot see them all. They are all right here with us in the place where all the worlds meet, and all the worlds meet in this drawing right down here at the bottom, in the physical plane where we are. We are all here together.

 

Jesus is here and the Serpent is here, and Leviathan is here. We are all here in the same place, but we are in condition of different degrees of density. Our physical presence is in a variety of degrees of density and we down here on the physical plane, can only see the people who are physically dense as we are. We cannot see the people who are in their etheric body or their astral plane or the mental plane, we cannot see them, but everybody is down here together, it is just one big happy family. Another way to look at it would be all of the microbes that are floating out there in the air. There are all kinds of germs in the air. This house is filled with dust. It never ceases to amaze me how much dust lands on the furniture. Well, it has to be in the air to land on the furniture.

 

This room is filled with dust, it is filled with all kinds of gases, oxygen, hydrogen, all kinds of carbon dioxide. All kinds of gases are present in our air, but we cannot see the gas. We cannot see the dust. Most of the time we cannot see the dust that is in the air. Maybe if there is a bright light shining on it you see the floating in the air. All of the planes of consciousness are right here with us, but each of the planes of consciousness does not vibrate out to the same distance. Maybe I did not make that clear to you.

 

This man is existing right here. The little man where his head is touching, the point that all of the circles meet, OK? His physical body, this is the physical plane for him, goes only as high. If you are reading this message just look at your drawing. The innermost circle is the physical plane, and that is as high as his physical world is, and the average person cannot see beyond it, but the next level, which is the astral plane vibrates out beyond the physical plane. That is what the aura is, it is our energy vibrating out beyond this physical body. And then his mental plane, that is the next line up, may extend out even further.

 

So the different planes of consciousness that are all flowing through this man down here, each have their own height that they ascend to, and each height is not the same. So the man whose consciousness does get all the way up to the top, I think that you have to get into the 7th plane of consciousness for your physical body to disappear, he is still right here in the midst of us, but his physical body is not visible to us. He is vibrating at too rapid a rate of speed. He sees us but we do not see him. Any questions or comments on this little exhortation?

 

COMMENT: When Adam fell, could that be the reversal of what you are saying here?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, exactly. He descended. We are hoping to ascend.

 

COMMENT: He descended into solid form right when he fell?

 

PASTOR VITALE: Well, what was left of him after he -- I cannot go into that whole story now. We know that Adam broke down -- I cannot go into that whole story again -- but what was left of Adam, you could say Adam's widowed spirit, or his consciousness, started to descend down into the planes, and as his consciousness, or his spirit descended, he broke (among other things); he broke down into Cain and Abel. But even Cain and Abel is not appearing on this physical level. Cain and Abel exists on an invisible level. What is appearing is the Ox, the animal that Adam made to be joined to. That is all that is appearing right now, physically appearing. And of course, the Serpent's mind is appearing, if you eyes to see it, in people's attitudes and words. Anybody else?

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