327 - 1 Part
ANGER, AGGRESSION AND INTIMACY

The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.

 

We are one family, the family of man. Have you ever heard the humanists and the hippies say that? The family of man? They're right. We are one family. The whole problem is that we died and in our death we became divided from one another. First we were divided from the living God because death is separation from God and then that which is our spiritual condition was reflected in our soulish and physical condition. Our soul separated from each other, we divided into many members, different nationalities, different ethnic groups that each had their own language and different mentalities and we began fighting with one another, just as we're fighting against God, and then eventually we separated out into physical bodies and we're all divided. But, we're just one. It's a great mystery, but we're just one. It's impossible for Jesus to love one group of people and not another group of people, it's not possible! Because we're only one group of people and the fact that we look different, the fact that we sound different, the fact that we frequently think different, is only an illusion. It is an illusion which reflects our separation from God. The more likely an individual is, brethren, to accept all people, the more likely they are closer to God. Of course there are people in the world that are doing this out of their carnal mind, but people in whom the true spirit is being built find that they cannot separate their reactions to people because of the old carnal prejudices because Jesus said, you can't even say you love your brother, you can't say you love God if you can't love your brother. How can you love God whom you have never seen if you cannot love human beings? So, therefore, if you truly love God, the side of it is that all men are welcome in your life based on that individual person, you're supposed to love everybody, even those who sin against us. Of course, you don't stand there and let someone cut your arms off; let's not have a martyr's spirit here, I hope you know what I'm talking about. If you have any hope at all of entering into the high spiritual realms where Christ is, you cannot be divided from men because of manifestations of the curse in their life. What are manifestations of the curse in their life? Division, division based on male/female, based on sex, division based on color, division based on religion, division based on language, division based on doctrine, division based on age. There is no division for the person who is truly moving in Christ. So try the spirit on yourself. Christ is for everybody. Jesus. No matter how reprobate that person is, you can't divide yourself from someone for moral reasons. Now, you don't partake of the person's immorality, but neither do you refuse to admit someone to your service, or even into your life based on their immorality. Now listen, that doesn't mean that you start hanging out with immoral people to the extent that their immorality absorbs you into their immorality. Hanging out with immoral people is the function of spiritual adults in whom Christ is strong enough to absorb them into your morality. Resist not evil, brethren, but overcome evil with good. Now, brethren, this is not speaking about a religious work, this is not talking about denying people's sin. This is talking about forgiving people's sins but exercising a Godly control over the relationship. The Scripture clearly says that if you're not grounded and founded in Christ Jesus, except for people like that, if you're hanging out with sinners, you'll become like them. That's what the Scripture says, and it's true. In this world, sin is stronger than the person who's leading a reasonably moral life, nobody's completely moral. It's true. The world knows it. That's why parents try to control the friends that their children have. It's true. But it's not true in Christ Jesus, you see? So now don't go out and start hanging around with all kinds of immoral characters that can drag you down into a spiritual morass that will destroy you, but as the Lord raises you up into spiritual manhood, step carefully, but step out as He leads you, believing that the Christ in you has the power to raise up people who are to be morally weaker than you are. You have to know who you are in Christ, you have to set your standards, and you have to live by them, hanging onto Jesus every step of the way and you'll be able to drag these people up to where you are. They won't drag you down, you'll drag them up. But you can't do it if you're afraid. You can't do it if you're afraid. Brethren, someone has to go out and minister to the spiritual leper. Someone has to do it. And you have to touch him, you can't be afraid to touch him, because it's that touch that's going to raise them from the dead. It's time. It's time for the Son of God to appear in the earth and set the spiritual criminal free. Praise the Lord.

Don't just lay it in your heart to do something. As soon as you start trying to understand it with your reason, you probably won't do it. Why? Because your mind is not like His mind. He doesn't think like you think. Therefore, unless you know that you're thinking with the mind of Christ your best bet is to stop thinking. He doesn't need your carnal mind to help Him. He doesn't need your carnal mind. He doesn't want your carnal mind. Your carnal mind is in His way. Now some people just move in the Spirit, others have to work at it harder. You have to relax, you have to relax, because to move in the Spirit, Jesus clearly said, the person who is spiritual is blown about like a leaf is blown in the wind. You have to be spiritually loose to be directed by the Spirit. The Spirit of God does not knock you down and tie you up and drive you. You see, if you're trying to get a fix on what spirit is moving you, one of the things to look for is whether or not you feel driven. Satan drives you, Satan is compulsive. Christ is like a gentle breeze. And if you're open to Him you just move, you don't know why you do things, you just do them. I don't have to tell you to get into that condition other than to tell Jesus you would like to serve Him in that capacity. He'll have to do it for you, I don't know how to tell you how to be that way. It's a form of communication between you and the Father, it's a sensitivity that exists between the two of you that you just do things, you may not realize it was the Lord putting the thought in your mind until after it's done. It's that intimacy with Christ that will move you in the Spirit. It's intimacy with Christ. You see, people who don't understand the move of the Spirit they think it's a high manifestation of spirituality to hear an audible voice or to see a vision, or to have some glorious spiritual experience, but I declare unto you, that is not the ultimate with God. The ultimate with God is subtle. The ultimate with God is a relationship of such an intimate nature that you can't tell the difference between Him and you. Can you hear this? The ultimate is union with Christ in your spirit, such a complete union that you do things because you really think it's your own idea to do them. And then when you see the fruit of your behavior, you realize, well maybe it was your own idea, but only because you were so completely joined with Christ in your mind that His idea was your idea. So, it's accurate to say it was your idea, if you can hear what I'm saying. That's the ultimate. Unity with Christ to such a degree that there is no difference between you and He. Then you don't need an audible voice. Brethren, you don't hear an audible voice from someone that you are completely joined to. You are they. You don't need a vision from somebody that you are completely joined to. Why would you need any form of external communication from yourself? Amen? Any form of external communication from the Father says to me that you are not one with the Father. And that's okay, the Father has relationships with people with whom He is not joined to. But the ultimate is to be joined to Him. The ultimate is to have the Spirit of God as your spirit. When the Spirit of God is your spirit you will have great experiences with God, you will do great things for God, and when you're truly joined, you will cease from this experience known as death. Because how could you die when you're joined to the Life of the Ages? How could you die when you're one spirit with Eternity itself? Therefore, once again I say to you brethren, don't seek after the doctrine, don't seek after the experiences, seek after Christ, pant after Him, lust for Him, desire Him with all of your heart, your mind and your soul and all these things will be added unto you because in Him is all provision. In Him is every thing that you need. If you ____ off Him and there's something that you think that you need but that you don't have, either you don't need it or the Lord's using the lack of it to build some element of His character in you and you may not have it for a season. He may give it to you later on but He may not. Our ultimate goal, brethren, should be total submission and obedience to the Christ. In that is peace. You can't have peace if you're constantly seeking, constantly seeking, constantly thinking there's something that you need that you don't have. Brethren, we are called to peace, not tomorrow, not next week, not next month, not next year. We're called to peace right now. Peace comes through complete dependence on the Lord. We are to be dependent on Him as women used to be on their husbands, you don't see it anymore. The type of our relationship with Christ is the way marriage used to be. Many women didn't like marriage the way it used to be and it certainly was hard on the woman, harder on the woman than on the man. I remind you that every experience that this human race has experienced is a natural type of spiritual thing. It was very hard, it's still hard being a woman because spiritually speaking it's hard being a woman. You have to submit. So we have a type of that submission in this world, natural man. It's very hard being a man. It's not easy carrying all that responsibility around. You have the freedom, but you also have the burden. Everything in this world is a type of the spiritual reality. But you see, in this world it's difficult being a woman because the men aren't perfect. In Christ Jesus, however, the man, THE MAN is perfect. Spiritual marriage, therefore, is perfect. The person in authority makes the people under him what they are. The person in authority, by the relationship he has with the people under him either makes them or breaks them. If it's the father, if it's a husband, if it's employer, if it's a minister, you make or break your people in direct proportion to your ability to love them with the love of God and to treat them and bring them into a godly relationship with you. People cannot grow when they are oppressed. So we see a relationship with the Father as the ultimate relationship, but brethren, to get everything that God has for you, you must give up everything that you have gotten for yourself. You can't have both. You can't have everything that the Lord has to offer you and still hold on to your independence. It doesn't work. It just doesn't work. So, He's breaking us and He's bringing us into a condition of dependency upon Him, and that doesn't make you a weak person, that makes you a man to everyone underneath you and a woman to the Lord Jesus Christ. Changing spiritual sexual rules. You're like a captain in the army. You're like a one star general in the army. You have tremendous responsibility and you're a man to everyone underneath you. But to the five star general, you're a woman. You can't move in a godly authority if you cannot submit to God. So He's breaking us, brethren, because we can't even give up our own ways. We can't do it if we want to. He has to break us. And that's what these trials are all about.

Comment: In this book you mentioned that Jesus was a God and His father was a God. So, my question is, would you think that anybody out there would be praying to not only these two Gods, but ? Peter and Paul and all these other disciples that were under Jesus, other people out there that may pray like this,

PASTOR VITALE: Well, Catholics pray like that, yeah. I don't know specifically what you're referring to in that book, I hope I didn't say Jesus is a God. (Comment indistinguishable) Well, I'd want to see that if that's what I said in there. Because Jesus is THE God. He never said He is the only God, He said that He's the greatest God of all the gods. But technically He is the only God. Every other god is really a demon. I believe the Jehovah's Witnesses express Him that way, though, as A god, indicating that Jesus is one of many gods that are equal to Him, but we don't believe that here, Jesus is the only true God. He is the Living God and therefore all the other gods, and there are other gods, but they're all false gods and they're all dead gods. So, what is a god? A god is a life form that is superior to the life form that you are. Spirit, brethren, is superior to soul. That means, if we're talking about a demon spirit, of course the Devil himself is superior to fallen man, she is the god of this world and she exercises dominion over us all the time, right? Okay. She exercises dominion over us all of the time. A natural person without the strength of Christ has no chance against the Devil. Did you find it in there? Did I say that? Well, if anyone reads that book and finds where I said Jesus is A god, please let me know, I would like to correct it in time for the next printing. As a matter of fact, any error that you find, or if you think it's an error in these books, please come and tell me and I'll check it out and if it is, in fact an error, I'll correct it before the next printing. The same thing with the tapes. Any error, a couple of people have come to me with errors, I haven't had time to fix them. You did, really, what does it say? Please put it on the microphone. You have to talk on the microphone.

Question: You said that the Son of God is God. The Holy Spirit is God also. The Holy Spirit is the Father. So, you know, if you're not understanding doctrine, you know, you understand?

PASTOR VITALE: OK, that was how it registered in your mind.

Comment: Well not me, I understand what you're saying here, but (comment indistinguishable).

PASTOR VITALE: Well, I'm not sure what you mean.

Comment: What I'm saying is that if I didn't know what you were preaching in here, Sheila, and I came across that, I would assume, because I'm not being taught, that you're saying that Jesus is a god. So, that if I don't know that, I believe you said at one time that we're all gods cause we're made in His likeness or something.

PASTOR VITALE: I'll wait until you finish talking and then I'll answer you.

Question: So, the Mind of Christ is a god. That's what you're saying?

PASTOR VITALE: No, I'm not saying that. I'm going to try and explain it, I'll wait till you're finished talking. Okay, I don't believe I said anywhere that the Mind of Christ is a god, okay? Read it again, read it into the microphone.

Comment: The mind of Christ is God, His father is God, right. This is what you're saying, right?

PASTOR VITALE: Yes. Not A god.

Comment: Not A god, no, that is different. But someone could interpret it like that.

PASTOR VITALE: Well, if they interpret it that way, it's their problem, that's not what I preach. That's what the Jehovah's Witnesses preach.

Question: Now you see what I'm saying?

PASTOR VITALE: No, not really, if you could explain to me why you're taking it that way I could try...

Comment: I'm not taking it that way, I'm just trying to, I don't want to go into it.

PASTOR VITALE: Because I don't understand what you're saying. I don't believe I've ever said Jesus Christ is A god because that implies that He is one of many equal gods, which is pretty much what the, isn't that what the Jehovah's Witnesses teach? Well, the Son of God is God, but that's not the same thing as saying He is A god. (Can't hear comment) Please use the microphone. I don't understand your question.

Question: Please explain to me "the Son of God is God", if you will please.

PASTOR VITALE: That the Son of God, how could the Son of God be God, is that what you want explained to you?

Comment: Yes. PASTOR VITALE: Okay. Who can tell us who the Son of God is? Is the Son of God a man, who is the Son of God?

Comment: A mind.

PASTOR VITALE: A mind, the Son of God is a Mind. When the Father reproduces Himself, His Son is a Mind. The Father the male and the woman that He joins with to have His child is this creation which is made out of dust, so the union of Spirit and dust produces the Mind which is in the creation. The Son of God is a Mind. Now, because the man Jesus of Nazareth had the Mind of God borne in Him, He was therefore able to call His whole person God, because we are whatever our mind is. Whatever our mind is, that's what we are. Right now the creation is fallen and the mind in us is death, therefore the whole human race is death. We're in hell and we're dead. And we are death. We are death, and we are sin, and we are hell. Okay? But when the Mind of God is borne in us we shall be gods. We're not gods now because the Mind of God isn't borne in us yet. You see, it's in the process of being borne in us, and when the Mind of God is borne in us, He will destroy the mind in us which is death. Then the only mind in us will be the Mind of God and we shall be gods. But, we're not gods now.

(Comment indistinguishable).

PASTOR VITALE: Well then, I must be missing your point. Okay. Praise the Lord.

Question: I was going to ask you a question concerning deliverance, and I'm not all that experienced in deliverance, but I've been having some weird experiences lately and I don't understand them. For example, you know, lately I feel like I've been getting deliverance without my even knowing, like it could happen at any time, you know? For example, I could be reading a book, every day I would pray and repent of this and that and God deliver me, I'm praying every day to bring deliverance in my life and I feel Christ in me growing and I feel that as I'm praying and I'm reading your literature, something is happening to me spiritually and at the same time I feel deliverance is taking place in my life as I'm reading your books, as I'm sitting in the meeting, I could be manifesting at any moment. I could be at work reading and I would feel led to cry or scream, and I know I can't because I'm working. Or, it could be even here right now as I'm sitting, and I know I can't because you're teaching. It just doesn't happen when you lay hands on me, I mean it does, it would happen, but it would happen at any moment, you know, as I'm listening to the tapes, so I'm wondering, what should I do when this is happening, when I feel like I'm manifesting and I just feel, you know I feel like it's the time for me to be getting a lot of deliverance. It's not just happening like it did two years ago where I had that deliverance and then I didn't have it for another year or couple of months. Now I feel it's happening more often in my life. And, I don't understand it too much so I don't know what to pray at that moment and when I feel like I'm manifesting in place of that. You know, people wouldn't understand, what do I do? Do I suppress it, or how do I pray, ask God to.. do you know what I mean?

PASTOR VITALE: Well, you don't suppress it, you could do self deliverance, I've done a lot of self deliverance on myself, tell it to come out. Ask the Lord for His will and tell it to come out. I was delivered from hay fever by doing self deliverance, I was delivered from paranoia by doing self deliverance. So, just go after it, rebuke it, just what we were doing for you tonight, you could do it for yourself.

Question: And if I'm working and I feel that I'm getting deliverance, I can ask the Lord if it's going to come out, let it come out in a private way without anybody knowing?

PASTOR VITALE: Yeah, I think God could do that. Most deliverances anyway you just cough and choke (chuckle).

Comment: When I have these big deliverances, when I'm feeling these spirits stirring up in me, I don't feel just to cough or burp or whatever, I just feel to really get violent and cry.

PASTOR VITALE: Well, that's hard when you're working, but I can't tell you what has happened in this house over the last fourteen years. I've cried, I've screamed, I've pounded on the floor, I got continuous deliverance for five years. It never stopped. I got deliverance four nights a week in church, five nights a week driving home from work I played the tapes, I got deliverance in the car, I got deliverance going to work, I got deliverance coming home from work. It just never stopped for five years, it was continuous. And most of it, most of it was belches and yawns. When I was in church, I had violent deliverances in church, but going to work and coming from work I got deliverance continuously, but basically belching and yawning. Just ask God to get it out of you. Thanks for sharing that with me cause that's exciting to know that you're manifesting from the books. I read them myself, they're very powerful. I start to shudder, my teeth start to chatter when I read them. Very powerful. So, if that happens to me, no wonder people can't bear them.

I was reading a psychiatry book today, and it was very interesting, this man who wrote this book was saying, he wasn't a Christian, he was just a psychiatrist, talking about human nature, he was saying that people cannot bear the truth. Denial is a big problem because people just cannot bear the truth. Too hard to face the truth about yourself, about what you really feel, about what other people really feel, about what other people are really like, because, maybe we're gonna talk about this today. Basic human nature is primitive. Brethren, we are the beast. Now, those of us who live in a civilized society, well, we'd like to believe that we're not the beast. This particular psychiatrist claims that modern society has done much good but they have done much harm because socialization has its benefits. We learn manners, we learn how to treat each other with respect, to limit as much as possible our bestial nature which is really designed to kill, to rise up like the animals of the jungle and kill. So, it's good to be polite to people, it's good to have a system of socialization that will minimize the possibility of violent encounters. Did you know that that is what society is all about. When you go to the East and you see the Japanese and the Chinese bowing to each other and being extremely polite. All of this behavior is designed to minimize aggression because man is very aggressive. Man is very violent and he is still very primitive. Very primitive. So we see in this hour humanity's attempt to civilize himself, reaching the point of self destruction. What does that mean? We've gone as far as we could go thinking it and we don't find within ourselves, except those who are in Christ, of course, we don't find within ourselves the ability to make it after we've been faking it for thousands of years. We're finding out that we're still primitive jungle beasts. This was the premise of this man's book. So, what happens? Man goes into denial. We're taught in our homes, we're taught in church that people are a certain way, and when we find out that they're not, that the people that we've loved and honored and respected the most, the pillars of society, the pastors in the church, the government officials that we've been looking at a false face that they've been putting up, that in their emotion and in their hearts, they're as primitive as man has ever been. They're filled with sin, they're filled with wickedness, they're filled with evil, they're filled with violence, they're filled with anger, they're filled with rage, some people just cover it up better than other people. But, we're still animals brethren. We've just painted a whitewash over ourselves, that's what Jesus told the Pharisees, He said, "You are whited walls." That means you're walls that are covered with whitewash. Walls in the Scripture typify salvation. He said, your own attempts to save yourself is like whitewash. It's just on the outside, and whitewash is a very thin paint that wears away very quickly. He said, inside of you is dead men's bones. Who's the dead man that is inside of you? Who's the dead man, brethren? Christ. And when He said you're a beast, this creation was a combination of a man, which man was the Son of God, the man being the mind in the creation, and the beast, the emotions and the flesh of the man. But the man died, and the only thing left is the beast. We are the beast, the beast without a rider on his back. And we've been trying to tell ourselves for a couple thousand years now that we're not a beast, that we're civilized, that we're in control, but we're not. The beast has been in control. The result of this is that our society in general has gone into an epidemic of denial. We have a whole tape on this, where when the parents raise up the children by trying to force their image on the child without ministering to the child to develop their own person, the result is that the child splits, and we see the personality of the child that was never fed and never nourished and never taught to be independent, to grow up, to make decisions, to become a God fearing person in their own right, that child remains infantile, and a false self is developed in front of them in the image of the parent. They become not what they are, they don't become themselves, but they become or they grow into that image that the parent has impressed upon them, but it's not the real them. This is called a split off of the personality, and the real them is hovering behind this false self, an infant who has never grown up, because they have never been nourished, their ability to think and form opinions and to make mistakes has never been developed. So, as good as their false self looks, and false selves can look pretty good, they can look competent, they can look calm, they can look sophisticated. Huddling behind that false self is the infant that was never nourished in the manner that would have permitted him to become all that he is behind the split personality. It's become a national plague. It's become a national plague. Denial of the true self, denial of the true motives, denial of one's fear, denial of one's anguish, what are we afraid of? All men have this fear, infantile fear. Either they overcome it in infancy or they don't. The large majority of the population does not overcome it, why? Because parents are not perfect. What is the fear? Fear of abandonment, fear of being overwhelmed or engulfed, they both have to do with the mother. Either it's the fear that she'll go away and never come back, or it's a fear that she's going to get so icky sticky close that you'll be overcome because some mothers do that. And the third fear is the fear of non-being. The fear of having no existence whatsoever. These are infantile fears, they have nothing to do with your intellect, they completely bypass your intellect. They are gut emotional reactions. The average person doesn't even know that they have them, because we think we're big and we're all grown up and we've got everything under control, but the sign, the tell-tale signs that we're not all that we think we are are the strange reactions we have to the events of our life. Negative reactions, however they're reacting in you, sometimes they're emotional, sometimes they appear as physical illness, if you square root it they all go back to these three fears. The way to come out of these fears is to have relationships that are rooted and grounded in the love of Christ which is unconditional love, acceptance, and an ability and a freedom to express your emotions. People need to express their emotions, you see, this concept of denial that's across the world today, or across this country, I don't know about the world, they're being taught either verbally or by the caretaker's behavior that it's not acceptable to express one's emotion. We're taught as children to deny our emotions. Brethren, this is a plan for mental illness. You cannot deny your emotions. They have to go somewhere. What we can deny is an ungodly expression of our emotions, you see, anger is an emotion. If you could learn to verbalize that anger, if you could learn to recognize what's raging in your heart, if you could learn to know yourself and have some idea of what's making you angry, there is a true release in saying, I am angry, I don't like what you did, I don't like the way I feel, I, I, I, I, you can have a release from your anger. It is not acceptable to express your anger through aggression. Aggression is not acceptable. Aggression hurts other people. Aggression is sin. Jesus said, Be angry and sin not. Brethren, we are emotional beings, if we repress our emotions, it will hurt us somehow. They've got to come out. Whether they come out in mental illness or they come out in physical illness, or they come out in aggressive behavior which is either overtly aggressive or passively aggressive. Overtly aggressive behavior is towards other people, it's destructive, it can be physical, it can be verbal. Hatred, condemnation, accusation is verbal aggression. Jesus said it's the same spirit that causes a man to murder. And, of course, we have the actual physical expression of aggression which would be a physical taking of someone's life. Passive aggression is aggression that is either turned in towards oneself, which usually results in either mental or physical illness, because aggression is murder, it kills, it either kills you or it kills somebody else. Passive aggression can also be turned to other people. Passive aggression by definition cannot be physical aggression. Passive aggression is aggression that is very hard to recognize. So by definition it cannot be physical. Well, that's not true. Passive aggression can be physical, the Lord just corrected me. It can be physical, but passive aggression is aggression that is so subtle that it can be denied, for example, if you run your car into another car and it comes to pass, if you run your car into your enemy's car, whoever that enemy is, your husband, your wife, your brother, your sister, and you claim your foot just slipped off the pedal, you don't know how it happened, and you really believe it, that would be a form of passive, physical aggressive. Passive aggression turned inward towards oneself is the accident prone person. Do you know any accident prone people that are always cutting themselves with knives, they're always in the emergency room getting stitches? I knew a woman like that once. Every time she went to cook, she was slicing her arm up. Accident prone, self destructive, passive aggression turned towards oneself. Aggression kills, it either kills yourself or it kills somebody else. And that death could be a slow death. The fact that you don't physically cease to be doesn't mean that you're not dealing with the spirit of murder. It's possible to murder slowly. Verbal passive aggression is the hardest thing to recognize. It's the hardest thing to recognize. Some people call it a left handed compliment. Have you ever heard of that expression? A left handed compliment? Anybody? You've heard of it? Only one person heard of it here? A left handed compliment. Yeah, it's a passive aggression. It's saying something to somebody that, if your ears can't hear it, it sounds like a nice thing. It sounds like a compliment, it sounds like a kind remark, but there's just that subtle twist in it, and it's a spiritual knife that just goes in. If you're a spiritual person, you'll feel it. If you'll recognize it intellectually, you'll know what you're feeling, but some people do not recognize this subtlety intellectually, but they're spiritual and they feel the knife going in and they'll say to themselves, why am I feeling this way? Why am I angry at this person, they didn't do anything wrong to me, why am I angry? Well, maybe you're reacting to a left handed compliment which is really a spiritual arrow propelled into you by words that appear to be godly or loving, but they're subtle. They're not only trying to kill you, but they're not even honest to tell you that they're angry. (Comment indistinguishable). I'm not sure what you meant, but do know you have a microphone in your hand? Okay. (Another comment) Hallelujah. So, we see that people are as primitive as the animals in the jungle. We just manage to cover up our aggression because many of our needs are met. Nobody's needs are completely met. We'll find out what people are really made out of when their needs are not met, when they have no food to eat, when they are cold, when they have no comfortable place to sleep, when they're lacking needed affection, acceptance, love, and affirmation, people need to be validated, they need to feel that they're worthwhile, that their existence is meaningful and positive, that people like them, but brethren, we shall never receive validation from outside of ourselves, we shall never receive respect and love from outside of ourselves until we learn to love and accept ourselves. Whatever we are on the inside we attract from the outside. Thank you Jesus. So, we see man struggling, we see him struggling with his primitive nature, to keep it contained, to keep it covered over, to keep it whitewashed, we don't want anybody to know that we're afraid, we want them to think we're competent, we want them to think we have everything under control. We want to believe it ourselves, we see a whole nation in denial, and we're starting to break down. We're starting to see more and more people who can not keep up the facade anymore, drug addicts appearing everywhere, alcoholism, smoking, nicotine addiction, all forms of compulsive behavior, gambling, compulsive spending, all arising from unresolved infantile fear. A denial of the right to express our emotions, instead of teaching our children to express their emotions in a positive way, we rebuke them for expressing them. And, why would we do that? Why do parents do that? Brethren, largely they do it because they, the parents themselves, don't know how to deal with their emotions. Frequently we do it because children ask us questions that we don't know the answers to and because parents are laced with pride and cannot say, I don't know the answer to your question. We turn on the child. Someone told me something that just really, um, I don't know what the word is, just really made me stop and think. The other day, someone told me that they asked their mother how come their dead father wasn't up on the cross. How come it was Jesus up on the cross, how come their dead father wasn't up on the cross? And they were punished for it. I think that's a very intelligent question. For a child that doesn't know anything about Jesus, they see this man hanging on the cross and they wanted to know why one man was up there and why another man wasn't up there. So, why were they punished? Most likely because the parent didn't know the answer. Does that make the parent a bad person? It doesn't make the parent a bad person. But the fact remains that this child was punished for asking a very intelligent question. I don't know many adults that would ask that question. So, we see it's become a national activity to repress our children's creativity. An honest question deserves an honest answer. If you don't know the answer you should say that you don't know the answer. But to crush one's creativity is one step towards destroying a mind. We have in this nation a community, a large number of people who cannot think. It's become a sing of our society. If you have a problem with a company, especially with the government, there's nobody that you could talk to. You call up on the telephone and you get a clerk who cannot think. They're like robots. They have their instructions written down. And if you ask a question that cannot be answered by what's written down, there's nothing they can do for you. If you're going to a store these days you can't find a clerk that knows about the products being sold. There was a time that if you went into a store to make a purchase, the clerks knew all about the products. Today all you find in the majority of stores is clerks that know how to take your money and give you the package. They cannot answer your questions. Creativity in this society is being destroyed. People are found, it's more desirable to not think than to think. More and more employees do not want you to think. They just want you to routinely and rotely do the job that you have been hired for. They are looking for machines. The people are drying up from the inside out, their creativity is being crushed. They don't even know who they are, they don't know why they're enraged, they don't know why they are violent. Because Satan has gotten a hold on this society and he's putting men in little pigeon holes. Man can't bear it. We were designed to be creative people. We're designed to have our spirits joined to the Spirit of Christ, to rise up above our primitive emotions. The only way we can do it is with union with Christ. You see, all creativity is in the human spirit. She is joined to Satan in this hour and completely crushed. Many people in this hour are in a form of spiritual slavery. We don't have physical slavery anymore, we have spiritual slavery. There was a song once, it was sung by Johnny Cash, My Soul is Sold to the Company Store. Material things, brethren, we're in bondage to material things. God wants us to fulfill our creativity and you need enough money to live on, you need a house, a roof over your head, you need clothes on your back, you need basic things. But God doesn't want our selling our soul to the company store. Because you won't be able to bear it. You're developing a false self. It's not you, it's not true to yourself, it's a self that probably hates the true you. Because on some level you know you haven't fulfilled your creative potential. You're filled with anger, you're filled with rage, some people admit it, some people deny it, but it's got to come out. Either it's got to hurt your mate, or it has to hurt your children, or it's going to make you sick, or it's going to direct you to some form of self destructive behavior. There is help in Christ Jesus. There's help in Christ Jesus. But when he comes into your life, He has to tear down the ways that you've been living by for all these years of your life. You see, life, or existence is a question of survival. Everybody is dealing with infantile fear, some to a greater degree than others, some people are coping better than others, some people go through their whole life without having to even deal with the reality of it, and they will never even know that they are suffering from infantile fear until enough stress or enough difficult circumstances come upon them to flush it to the surface. Some people believe in their false self. They believe that's really who they are. That's why Jesus said that the alcoholic and the prostitute will enter into the Kingdom before the Pharisee. The Pharisee is a false self. They think that they have everything under control. They think their life is okay, but underneath it all they're dead men's bones, they're just a beast who has control over himself. They don't think they need any help because they are in complete denial of who and what they really are, they are in complete denial of who and what they feel and think, and they're going around killing either themselves or other people, and they have amnesia, for all intents and purposes they might as well be a multiple personality. It's another side of them wielding the knife. Jesus has come, brethren, to tear down these walls of denial, to reintroduce us to our real self, to our real emotions, you see, don't deny your emotions, if you hate somebody, if you are enraged at somebody, for your own sanity's sake, you need to confess it. See, it's important to understand what confession is. Jesus said, forgive your enemies. I, for years, thought that was for the benefit of my enemies. No, it's for my benefit. Unforgiveness kills, kills the unforgiving person. Jesus said, don't judge lest you be judged. I always thought it was for the benefit of the other person. No, don't judge. Because the Satanic judgment will come on you. Jesus said, those who are merciful, they will receive mercy. Be merciful for your own sake. The way the world puts it is, what goes around comes around. You can't go around making people miserable and expect to be happy. You can't go around being cold and withdrawn and aloof and unfriendly and have friends. It's essential that we learn to express our emotions in a way that does not kill. Ideally we will learn to verbalize them as an I expression, I feel, I feel, I feel. Sometimes in extreme cases to get out a baseball bat and some kind of dummy and beat it up. There used to be, I don't know if they're still around or not, but there used to be a deliverance church in Manhattan where the pastor had rooms with baseball bats and whatever he had hanging there, I don't know. And he would pray for you and , whatever the routine was, I didn't know, but you could go to his church and go in one of these rooms and pick up a baseball bat and beat up this dummy. There's a whole in the psychology movement called the primal scream, which encourages people to scream out their frustration and their anger, if you don't get it out in a godly controlled way, it will come out of it's own will and it's own accord in an ungodly and uncontrolled way. You see, if you take authority over it and you determine the parameters, if you determine the circumstances under which it will come out, if you take control over your own life in Christ Jesus, you can express this rage and begin to expel it from you. It doesn't have to come out in the form of a demon. If it comes out in the form of a demon, praise God, it doesn't have to, it can, but it doesn't have to. When I say a demon, I mean the kind of formal manifestations that some of us have experienced, but you've got to express your emotions, brethren, because if you deny them you are living in a false world. For those of us who are living in a false world and trying to have a relationship with a person living in the real world, we find that that relationship is troubled, there's continuous fighting in it. Why? Because one person, if one person is sensitive, they're not so much responding to your words as they are responding to your heart. Now, if your words are saying something different than your heart is saying, and you're in a relationship with somebody who is responding to your heart, you have a severe communication problem. Now, if you yourself don't know what your heart is saying and your words are saying something different because you have a false self that is in complete denial of what you are feeling or thinking, the only relationship you could have is with somebody who will believe your words. But most people are spiritual beings, they cannot respond to your words when they don't line up with your feelings. And you wonder why you go from relationship to relationship to relationship. Something is wrong with what you're saying, something is wrong with what you're thinking, because you're denying your true feelings. Why? Because you think it's not nice to have those feelings. Brethren, feelings are feelings, nice, not nice, they need to be dealt with. No, you don't necessarily have to express them to another person, if you're enraged at that person, and that person has done something to offend you, you might want to tell them that you are greatly distressed over what they did to you, but maybe you have an awareness that that rage is not appropriate towards that other person. I've experienced that. Intense anger towards another person, but my rational mind knows that person hasn't done anything to me that would warrant such a rage. All depending upon who the person is, you might tell them, they might help you with it, you could talk to God about it, you could talk to a close friend about it, as long as you don't let this rage manifest in the form of accusation. Now why would that happen? Because a false self is telling you that you couldn't possibly have done anything wrong, that it always has to be the other person who has offended you, this is why confession of sin is so important. It's confession of one's true feelings. Most of our feelings are sin. Only that which comes out of Christ is not sin. So, confession helps us to be in touch with our feelings, helps us express our feelings, helps us deal with our feelings and hone up our life, and improve our relationships, establishing godly communication, make changes when we are wrong, express to a close person that we're trying to develop an intimacy with, well, their behavior may be hurting us. Maybe they don't know they're doing it, and intimacy, brethren, has nothing whatsoever to do with sex. You could be intimate with your mother, you could be intimate with your father, you could be intimate with a close friend, you could be intimate with your pastor. You could be intimate with your husband or wife and have sex also, but sex is something different from intimacy. When you get it all together it can be very positive. Intimacy does not mean sexuality. Although it's used that way in this society. Intimacy is a close personal relationship, whereby two people flow together in harmony without either one trying to control the other person, but respecting them and accepting their individuality, and accepting their creativity. Intimacy is a relationship where both people take responsibility for themselves and their behavior. Intimacy is a relationship whereby two people can separate and come back together again when both parties are in agreement in spending that time together. True intimacy, brethren, to me, is a fine example of the love of God. It's a very high spiritual level of love that not many people attain to. Why? Because most people have never reconciled their feelings of infantile fear. As soon as they find this intimacy, they find a relationship that is gratifying to them, which is blessing them, overall blessing them, that old fear, that infantile fear of abandonment rises up, and they want to lay hold of that person and capture them and make them their own. Why? Because the relationship is making them feel good. But, what you don't realize, brother or sister, is that as soon as you try to capture that person with whom you have found intimacy, you are destroying that intimacy because you cannot capture intimacy. You must let it remain independent, you must let it be itself. You must continue to let it be creative. So, that infantile fear of abandonment destroys intimacy. You think you've found what you've been looking for and you destroy it. The other fear, the other infantile fear that man deals with is fear of engulfment. If from the earliest stages of your childhood you had a mother who was overwhelming, you may be an adult person with a fear of engulfment. Why am I picking on the woman, the mother, and not the father? Because, brethren, the father traditionally is out of the house at least five days a week for eight or nine hours a day. It's the mother that the child is with continuously. It's the mother who is disciplining continuously. It's the mother, through, to the childish mind of the child, poses this greatest threat of his never being able to individuate, to break away and to become a completely independent, self sufficient individual. This is at least one reason why a father is so important in a family. Two fold: The child who sees the mother as all powerful in his infancy sees the mother submitting to another authority, recognizes the mother is fallible, she is not God. She submits to a higher authority. It helps the child break that emotional tie and enter into their own creative adulthood. And secondly, the father is very important, because part of his role is to help the mother see when she may be too close to the child. In certain societies if the father perceives (in patriarchal societies, you don't see it in the United States) that there's too close a tie between the child and the mother, he'll take the child, send them to a relative for a year or two. He's seeing that the child can't make the break, for whatever reason, without condemnation, whatever reason this mother and this child are too close, the tie has to break. We see people all throughout our society still embroiled in childhood level ties. Forty, fifty year old men and women can't break the ties. Fear of engulfment will keep you from developing intimate relationships. This engulfment spirit is with the mother, or caretaking figure. You may have no memory of this at all, it's bypassing your intellect. It's something that happened in your emotions when you were one year old. On some spiritual level you discerned that this caretaker was overwhelmed in her caring for you, that there was some emotional need in the caretaker that was being satisfied through her caring for this child, probably unbeknownst to her. But, it overwhelmed the child and that child today is an adult having a problem developing an intimate relationship with anybody. Soon as anybody gets too close, they take off running for the hills. We find this manifested in many women who will continuously find themselves involved with members of the opposite sex that are destructive for them. They continuously find themselves in destructive relationships with members of the opposite sex. They thinks it's bad luck, they have all kinds of excuses for why this happens, but the truth is there are unconscious forces operating through them which are causing them to avoid a relationship with any person where there is a possibility of true intimacy. The fear of engulfment is so great that they go on an unconscious level. They would rather do without the intimacy than risk engulfment. The answer to the problem here, brethren, is to face the fear of engulfment. How can you face it if you don't have it? If you have problems in your relationships, if you have relationships that are destructive, if you do get close but your relationship is destructive, or if you don't ever get close, you know that you either have a fear of abandonment, or a fear of engulfment. Ask the Lord to show you which one, ask Him to help you to overcome, ask Him to help you to confess these fears as sin, this is the sin of pride. Your life is being controlled by fear. This is not of God. Confession of sin will be the first step to setting you free from destructive and painful relationships and a lifestyle of pain and torment and hopelessness and despair and distress. True intimacy is expressed in liberty, liberty to the other person, liberty to yourself, true intimacy is a relationship of mutuality, is a relationship of a agreement, where people come together out of mutual agreement, and separate to do their own things, it's a relationship which brings creativity and life and acceptance and vibrancy to the relationship. It's a relationship that glorifies God. Praise the Lord. The Lord is calling His people to get to know themselves that we might worship Him and serve Him with all that we could be. He's calling us to have Godly relationships, He's calling us to be productive, creative human beings. He wants to join with us, He wants us not to be robots, even unto Him, but to walk and to talk with Him. He wants us to think, He wants us to reason, He wants us to know Him, and He wants us to know ourselves. You can't really know the Lord unless we know ourselves. We hear much about projection in this fellowship, I've had several people come to me and tell me, you're just like my mother. I tell them I'm not like your mother. Somebody said to me recently, well, to me you are. I said, that doesn't make me like your mother. That means you have a problem in the way you view me. I am not like your mother, there is something in your mind that makes you see me that way, but I am not your mother. We see the same problem between much of the church and God. We see the Father as our father, the devil. We look at our Father in Heaven, and we think He's our father, the devil. But, He's not, He's God. And it's time for our minds to be cleaned up so that we can see God realistically, as He is. (End of Tape 1)

Tape 2

The walls are coming down, brethren, get ready for the rain, because the Lord's tearing down everything in us that's phony. He wants us to see clearly, not through a glass darkly, but accurately and with the mind of God.

Comment: You were saying people view you as they think that you're their mother, like if I was to see you as my father, you say I have a problem with the way I think. And what is that problem again? You were just explaining that.

PASTOR VITALE: The problem is called projection. What that means is that you've had some bad experiences in your childhood, in your case with your father, and whenever you see an authority figure, you expect that authority figure to be like your first experience with authority. If you've had a bad relationship with your father, you will expect every authority figure to treat you in the same way and most of the time you will, in fact, think that that person is treating you that way. Their words will be twisted in your mind, their motives will be twisted in your mind and you'll really believe what you're seeing, but it won't be true, it will be an illusion. That's how man has this ungodly image of the Father God. We think He's like our father the Devil, but He's not. It's called projection. We need to ask the Father to ask us to see people as they are, not as if we're looking through a mirror of our past experiences. We say that we do this, women do that with their husbands, husbands do that with their wives, it's very destructive to a relationship to not see the person as they are, but to see them as our past relationships. So, what are we talking about? We're talking about a fear of repetition, if our early experiences are that the loved one abandoned us, well, we're expecting our husband or our wife to abandon us. If our childhood experience was that the loved one overwhelmed us, babied us, didn't let us grow up, we're expecting our husband or wife to do the same thing and we're holding them at arm's length. Well, they may be doing that and they may not, frequently we marry people just like our early caretaker. We get caught in that groove no matter how much we dislike it, or even hate it, we get caught up in that kind of a relationship either where we're continuously abandoned or we are continuously overwhelmed and we just repeat it with every relationship that comes into our life until such time as we're set free by some form of intervention. I was telling you the other day, I think it was the last message that we had, that in my opinion, most of the religions of the world seem to, I can't say all because I don't know for sure, but every religion pretty much that I've investigated, probably with the exception of witchcraft, seems to accurately identify the human problem. And that human problem is that we are lacking. We are lacking. The place where religions differ is in our solution to the problem. In addition to that comment, I say to you that it's just more obvious to me than ever how modern psychiatry is very, very much identified and identifying the human problem. Just about everything that God is teaching me I find in these books. All the books do is clarify what God has placed in my heart. So, we see that psychiatry is a form of the study of human nature. Religion is the study of human nature and the solutions to the problem. Psychiatry, therefore, could be identified as a religion. It delves into human problems and it offers a potential solution for the problem. Psychiatry comes under the heading of humanism. It is very much a religion. I find that I can learn a lot from other religions with regard to their insight into the identification of man's basic problems. I don't agree with their solutions. I believe Jesus Christ is the solution. He is the power to do what needs to be done. There are some aspects of psychiatry that they're right on, the question is the power by which you get it done. Some of the solutions are very accurate. I just don't agree with the methods that they use to bring these solutions to pass. But with the power of Jesus Christ these walls have to come down. By the power of Jesus Christ our true feelings have to be exposed, we have to face them for what they are. We have to face the evil in our loved ones. We have to face the evil in other men and learn to deal with it in Christ to lead a productive life. The more immature we are, the more likely we are to expect the other person to change. The more mature we are, the more likely we are to know that we must change, that we must learn to cope with every form of evil in this world, both within ourselves and outside of ourselves. And that within Christ Jesus is the ability to cope with all kinds of imperfection and all kinds of people and to turn what could be a disaster into a positive relationship. In Christ Jesus we find the ability to not be destroyed by wickedness in other people, to not be destroyed by disappointment in other people, but to have the power in Christ within ourselves to help that other person who has disappointed us. Be a giver and not a taker, brethren. Be a giver and not a taker and you will find true happiness. If you continue to be a taker and negative person, if you're continuously looking for your relationships to satisfy you, you will be disappointed for the rest of your life. But be a giver, be the one who gives and get your needs met by God and by the people who He sends to you to meet whatever needs He will send through a human being, and you will find your happiness. Nothing's perfect, but you will find your happiness to the extent that He gives it to you. It is truly better to give than to receive. I never understood that for years, I didn't understand that. When you look to receive, it's not that there's anything wrong with receiving, brethren, but if you're whole lifestyle is based on a desire to receive, you must surely be disappointed. Either you won't receive, or if you do receive, that what you receive may not be of the quality that you are hoping for. Man is never satisfied. But if you give there is great satisfaction in giving. It is truly better to give than to receive. That is a reality. So, seek Jesus, brethren, to be all that you could be, and He will bless your relationships. Be a giver and not a taker. Be a lender and not a borrower, be a credit and not a deficit, and you'll be a happier person.

Anybody else have anything else to say? Okay, you have a question?

Question: You were talking about childhood experiences, how it can affect the, that any past experiences that the child has and how it can effect them throughout their adult years. If the child comes from a divorced family and are used to seeing relationships in their families where they are always fighting, the wife is always a Jezebel, there's always negativity that the child is always seeing among aunts and uncles or grandparents and the child comes from a divorced family. What impact could that child have as he/she matures into an adult?

PASTOR VITALE: Well, it have a devastating impact on the child. Makes the child insecure, fear of abandonment is usually very strong, and children who become adults who have grown up in that atmosphere have a lot to overcome, they need a lot of healing, and what they need are strong relationships with a mature person in Christ who is not going to abandon them, who is not going to engulf them, and who will not encourage them to deny their feelings and who themselves will no be in denial, but will tell that person the truth in the love of God. That kind of relationship or relationships, if God gives you more than one, with a person, a mature person whom is very grounded in Christ, and who is having healthy relationships can help you to grow out of the areas of your life in which your development has been arrested because of ungodly relationships with parents. So, if the Lord has placed you around mature people, they don't have to be in Christ, but they're most likely to be in Christ, that's your healing, that's your healing. In relationships with spiritually healthy people, let me say it again, who will not abandon you, who will not engulf you, they will not overwhelm you, they will not try to control your life, but they will tell you the truth, okay? When they see sin in you, or ungodliness in you, they will not abandon you, okay? And, when you start to lean on them somewhat, they will not overwhelm you, they will not control you, but they will strengthen you until you are standing on your own two feet and they will set you free. Now, if you have such a fear coming forth from your childhood that you won't establish or you won't enter into an intimacy, even with your pastor, for example, you really, it's my understanding, I don't see how you can begin to heal until you enter into an intimate relationship with the person that God puts in your life. This is the same situation in therapy. You cannot be helped by a psychiatrist until what they call the therapeutic relationship is established. You can go to a psychiatrist for twenty years, if you never submit to him, if you never put your trust in him, he can't help you. The healing is in the relationship. So, people who keep themselves at a distance from everybody, there's no healing for you until that wall breaks down and you come into a true relationship with a healthy person. Just as it takes the greatest amount of fuel to get the car moving, it takes the greatest amount of time and effort to get into a healthy therapeutic relationship which will produce healing for you. Because people are afraid, they're afraid of abandonment, they're afraid of engulfment, they're afraid to let their defenses down, they're afraid to trust, okay? So, you could be in therapy for years and not even begin to move. It could take five years to establish the relationship, and once the relationship is established, then you could move very quickly. But you can't be in self preservation to the degree that you don't let any intimacy touch your life and have any kind of a life. If you won't allow intimacy to touch your life, your life will be shallow, your relationships will be shallow, whether you're talking about a marriage, a husband, a father, a friend, if you don't let people share your feelings with you, if you're so afraid to trust that you keep a big wall between you, your relationships will be shallow and ? And inside you're going to be hurting really bad. You have to take your chances. People who are least likely to form intimate relationships are the people who are determined to not be hurt. If you're so determined to not be hurt that you don't let anybody near you, you may not be hurt, but the isolation that you will suffer as a result of not letting anybody near you is more devastating and destructive to you than any hurt that you could experience. Do you know what I'm talking about? Okay.

Question: What happens after the healing?

PASTOR VITALE: Well, hopefully you'll enter into some excellent relationships and have a very rewarding life.

Question: Not afraid of being close to anyone?

PASTOR VITALE: Well, that's your ultimate goal, yes. But, you see, being afraid in and of itself is not so terrible. It's the question of what you do with that fear. Many people are afraid and they do what they have to do anyway. So, the question is what do you do with the fear? Will that fear control you? Will that fear stop you from entering into intimacy, or will you not let it stop you. The fear is not going away. Fear is one of the basic primitive emotions that every human being has. It's not going away. The question is, will it control you, or will it not control you? Okay? Anybody else?

Question: When Michelle was talking about childhood, I came from a dysfunctional alcoholic family, and my mother, who was an alcoholic is in her 80's now and she's no longer drinking, and she lives with me. Not too long ago she went to the refrigerator and opened it up and she slammed it because something that she wanted wasn't in there. I felt such an anger rage up within me that I couldn't believe it. It was red hot and it brought back to me remembrances as a child when I would always go to the refrigerator and there would never be any food in there because that was just the way we lived. And the Lord allowed me to see that I must have had hidden bitterness that I wasn't aware of and that I had to forgive her for it, and then I was able to go and to say, Lord, I lay it on the altar and you burn it up because I know it's part of my carnal mind that He wants sacrificed to Him, and I saw it as something that the Lord was revealing and that He was healing by His power.

PASTOR VITALE: Well, that's excellent that the Lord helped you to realize where that anger was coming from. The anger that most of us experience goes back to our infancy, between a couple of months and the first two or three years of life. It's a gut reaction that completely bypasses our intellect. It's an emotional experience branded in our soul. See, that's excellent, I'm glad to hear you're making that kind of progress, because I think that you have a lot of unresolved childhood conflicts. Glad to hear that God's working with you. Thank you for sharing that.

Question: After the healing takes place, as you were describing to me and you said you people, and one can have excellent relationships. After the healing process takes place and you've established relationships with other people, friends, or even a marriage, for example, and let's say they hurt you and they do to you what you're parents did to you, the person that was just healed and overcame and after establishing a healthy relationship with one person and then goes into another one, it's like a devastating relationship. Would that person be strong and not let that bad experience overtake them or ruin them after they just got healed?

PASTOR VITALE: You see, it's a process. It's a process. The way you get strong in relationships is to overcome your fear and enter in. At the beginning you will have destructive relationships because that's all you're capable of having. But, as you engage in them, as you overcome your fear and engage in them, and practice forgiveness and all of the things that Jesus preaches, okay, you will get stronger and stronger with each relationship. It's like getting an inoculation against a disease. What they do is they inject small amounts of the disease into your bloodstream to build up antibodies. The way we get strong is to overcome. It's to have the painful relationships and take the victory in them through forgiveness of the other person, for praying for your enemies and blessing those who despitefully use you. There's no way to heal without experiencing the pain. And then you just build up an immunity towards the pain and then little by little you find yourself being attracted to healthier relationships as your immunity to pain builds up. But, this is a great mystery. The more sensitized you are to pain, the more likely you are to find yourself in a painful relationship. We're told in the Book of Job that which he feared came upon him. The person who is determined to avoid pain will wind up with the most painful relationship. It's just the way it works.

Question: Why is that?

PASTOR VITALE: That's human nature, that's the way it is. When you learn to deal with the pain, relationships will get healthier. If you're out to protect yourself, this self preservation is pure destruction. The greatest degree that you're looking to protect yourself from pain, that's the percentage of a chance that you're going to wind up with a hurtful relationship. The more you try to protect yourself, the greater your chance of winding up with a painful relationship.

Comment: It's almost like we're ? magnetizing.
PASTOR VITALE: Definitely. Your fear of being hurt attracts hurtful relationships to you, exactly. Exactly true. (End of Tape 2)


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