The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For
Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By
The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.
She (carnal mind) will establish herself as the headship of this meeting. So we need to be aware of that and not yield to it. Not yield to it; what does that mean? It means that when Christ is manifesting, the carnal mind is looking for a vessel who will yield to her desire to speak through you and change the spirit who's manifesting. There's another way of describing that. Does anybody know what we call that, when we have a situation where Christ is manifesting and another spirit begins to speak? The action happening is that Christ is being sacrificed. It's the breaking, it's the destruction, it's the murder of Christ. We have a manifestation of Christ and all of a sudden we don't have any manifestation of Christ anymore. Where did He go? Anti-christ has come in and killed Him. That means we now have to kill anti-christ and get Christ built up again. Now God's authority and chain of order is very important to God. I know that you didn't realize what was happening. The fact is that I recognized what was happening. Who am I? I am the God appointed head over this meeting. So the fact that I recognized what was happening and put a stop to it was honored by the Father and the rebellion was put down immediately and Christ is still the Spirit which is erected over this meeting.
Now you don't have to recognize what's happening with the detailed understanding that I recognize it. Let's put it this way. There was an established head of this meeting who rose up and loved you all enough to make an issue out of this. If I was somebody who said, oh I don't want to embarrass anybody, I don't want to be rude or I don't want to risk offending anybody and I let the conversation continue in that direction (if the head of the meeting did that) Christ would have been torn down. Once the carnal mind was established in this meeting, depending on the maturity of the leader, it could have brought down the whole meeting. It could have brought down the anointing for the whole meeting. So we must not be ignorant of Satan's devices and we must ask the Lord to help us not to be an unwilling vessel. That means that every thought that comes into our mind cannot be spoken out. Now most of us know that. The question is, most of us know that we can't rob people and we can't murder people and we're not supposed to be spewing hatred out of our mouth. Most of us know that. But when it comes to something as subtle as this, it's difficult and it takes a training and it takes a commitment to God to submit ourselves to this kind of correction.
As I tell you all the time, we have benefits in a group this size and we have deficits in a group this size. If we were a church of two hundred people, you would have never had the opportunity to make this mistake. This wouldn't have happened in a church of two hundred people. First of all you would have never done it in front of a pastor standing in a pulpit, with a three piece suit, running a formal meeting. Why? I don't mean that in any bad way, but this is the truth of it.
You just wouldn't have because the formality of such a meeting would have controlled your behavior. You would have never done it in such a meeting. But because of the informality here (this is the positive side of this now) we have an opportunity to not be controlled by an external condition of the numbers in the church, of a man standing in the pulpit and of a formal meeting. Now we can begin to think for ourselves and decide whether or not we're going to start to yield to carnal thoughts every time they come into our mind. I hope you can hear what I'm saying. When you're a child, brethren, you're controlled by your parents. Your mother takes your hand and walks you across the street, but when you become older, you must make an active choice as to whether or not you will cross the street or not. So one of the benefits of a group this size is that we do not have the controlling factors here of a formal group.
On the other hand, it could be painful or embarrassing when I bring a correction like this. I just encourage all of you to rebuke your own pride. There is no condemnation in this at all. The upside is that it's a tremendous opportunity to learn to grow up in Christ. All of us have to get this revelation that everywhere Christ is manifesting, every carnal mind in everybody, in everybody in this room, is seeking an opening to use you to bring down Christ in this meeting. Now in one person it's an apparently harmless thing like that and in another person it's outright rebellion. In another person it could be a fit of giggles, which is a passive rebellion. It doesn't matter. Everybody here, what you need to know is that you are a potential vessel through which anti-christ can kill Christ and now you have a choice. Will you be used this way or will you not be used this way? The first thing is that you make a choice in your mind; Lord, I don't want to be used this way. Then you recognize that your carnal mind is having a "go" at you every time she feels like it. The Scripture calls it spiritual adultery. You see, you have to make up your mind that you would not like to be used to bring down the anointing of Christ and everyone in their right mind is going to feel this way. Then when you realize that you've been used that way, from that point forward, you have perceived sin in your own heart and that it was an act of spiritual adultery. The carnal mind came to you and you laid down. I'm telling you the truth, man. That's how God sees it. You didn't even stop to think.
So if you desire to go on in God and I believe everybody here does, this is where you're at. It's tough at the beginning, but it gets easier and the rewards are very exciting when you begin to see the victory. The beginning of this can be painful or humiliating. Rebuke your pride. Your pride isn't worth two cents. It's not worth two cents. When you start fighting the fight and you start seeing the victory, it is personally the most exciting experience that I have ever had in my life. In the past and it still happens, but it was happening much more when I first started on this path, that the Lord would show me what happened, that somebody made a suggestion to me and without even thinking about it, I said yeah, that's right. Then the next day I would say, why in the world did I agree with them? I was completely raped. My mind was completely raped. There was no resistance whatsoever. When God started showing me this, I first got mad. You get mad and that's good. Get mad because you put up a good fight when you're mad. (Laughter)
So this is what's happening today, brethren. We have a spiritual husband. She's really a lesbian. Her name is the carnal mind. She's completely possessing us. She's possessed us for so long that we don't even know that we're married to her until our true husband comes on the scene and says, hey wait a minute, you're with the wrong guy. That's not me. Not only is it not me, but you're with some lesbian pervert over there. You can't even tell. Not only can you not tell that it's not me, man, you can't even tell it's not a man. You've got a problem. (Laughter) I would say you've got a problem, definitely.
So thank God for a witness and thank God that, number one, the Lord loves us enough to come and tell us the truth. Then number two, He has come to give us the power to get free from the one who is controlling us and has controlled us for all of our life through the fear of death. As I told you in our most recent meeting, that scripture which speaks about fear of death does not mean what we think. The word fear is not how we would take it in our modern English. It does not mean I am afraid of dying and therefore death has controlled me. This fear that's spoken about is a reverence, it is a respect, it is obedience and submission. The Scripture is saying you have been controlled by death all of your life because of your submission to death. What does that mean? It means, brethren, that the day that you stop committing adultery with death, that's the day you stop dying. That's what it means. It means it's the day that her thought comes to you in your mind and you say "gottcha." You haven't got a chance, you can't think it through me, you can't do it through me and I won't yield to you. I serve the Lord Jesus and none other. That's the day you begin to cross over from death unto life.
So we see that death is controlling us and has controlled us through a submission and obedience to death. What is death? To be carnally minded is death. It's through submission to the carnal mind. It's through opening our spiritual members and letting her live through us, think through us, talk through us, do through us and feel through us. That is the fear of death which keeps us dead. When the day comes, we will be sanctified by the power of Christ. True sanctification is separation from our present lesbian husband. Separated from her, we will cleave unto our true husband, whose overriding characteristic is life. When He thinks through us and He talks through us and He does through us, we will no longer be dead, but we shall find ourselves to be "alive." Well, it's full stature. Alive! Alive! Brethren, if the mind that you are in submission to is life, you shall live. But if the mind that you are in submission to is death, you are dead. So through the fear of death, through submission and obedience to the dead mind in us, we are dead. Therefore, the Lord's deliverance for us is a new mind, which mind is alive, and then the war, which kills the mind of death, so that the mind of life can be established in her place. I think that's exciting. If you're upset, rebuke your pride. What an exciting message. What an exciting message. It just gets me.
So what we are going to do today is have a review. I don't know whether you're aware of it or not, but there has been so much revelation coming down these last few weeks. It's no more than two months if that much, that so much revelation has come forth. It's not new revelation because I'll get some pharisee telling me there's nothing new and truth is eternal. Yes, truth has always existed. It exists now and it always shall exist, but it's new for me. I never heard this stuff before. It's new for me and I think it's new for everybody here unless you know something that I don't know. (Laughter) So there's been so much new revelation coming down over these last few weeks that I think I've lost a few of you, if not all of you. The Lord had told me to start a review, at least in this meeting. I'm going to go with the flow because what good is the revelation if you're over saturated? If you can't absorb it, there's really just no point in going on.
Actually I have six topics down here that I would like to touch on. I will be taking questions, certainly after each topic, pretty much as we go. If you raise your hand and I wave at you, all that it means is that I'd like to complete my thought, but you don't have to keep your questions until the end of the meeting. We'll see what God is going to do. I have six points here, but in a meeting like this I never know what the Lord is going to do. I've already started this tape in a manner other than the manner that I had in my mind because of addressing an incident which happened right here. It probably wouldn't surprise me at all if the Lord even pressed your button and pulled it right up out of you because it was something that He wanted to deal with. That's what God does. He will sacrifice us. He will sacrifice our carnal mind to expose sin, and frequently in front of other people, so as to give a teaching. He does that all the time. The Lord sacrifices our carnal mind and our pride all the time. It's not worth two cents. It's not worth two cents.
So I would like to give the exhortation that I thought I would be starting this meeting with. I'm going to try to find the Spirit and follow the path that He is blazing and I pray that the Lord helps me. I did want to make some comments on liberty this morning. There is a scripture which says, where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. I've told you many times that there is liberty in this fellowship. I would like to just make some comments on why, on certain occasions, I would seek to curtail your liberty. I'd like to make that clear. In this nation, which is a democracy, we have individual liberty until that individual liberty interferes with the group welfare. This is what is breaking down in this nation right now. It's alright to be your own individual person and do what you want, but if what you want is to murder me, we've got a problem, you see. If you desire to murder me, you've got the problem because the whole force of the law enforcement system of this nation is on my side. You can't tell me that you've got an urge to murder me and therefore I must lie down and be murdered. So we see that even liberty has limits on it.
In so far as these meetings are concerned, you are all free agents in your personal lives. I have no authority over your personal lives. I have no authority to tell you how to come and go or how to live with your husband or how to relate to other people. I am the God appointed authority here. If you ask me I will have an opinion for you. If I don't have an opinion, I will tell you and offer to pray for you. On occasion, I will call you up or call you in and say the Lord has been speaking to me about you and there's something operating in your life that you might not be aware of and I would like to share with you that I have seen it and this is my opinion of it. But I have no authority to instruct you in how to pursue your personal relationships. To the best of my knowledge I have never done any such thing, although some people who may be a little short of understanding in certain areas, perceive my offering my opinion as an instruction. If that's what you think about me, you're mistaken. How do you know that you're mistaken? This is what you look for. Look for this. Am I trying to enforce my will in your life? If I give you an opinion or make a suggestion, what do I do after that?
Am I exerting influence on you to make you do it? If I am not exerting influence on you to make you do it, then all I've given you is my opinion and I've given you a true suggestion. Some people give suggestions and it's not a suggestion. The minute I try to enforce it, it's not a suggestion, and it becomes a law. So if I make a suggestion about your personal life and then I try to enforce it, it means I am trying to put you under my law in areas where I have no authority. Where do I have authority? In this ministry I have authority and when your liberty affects me personally or affects this ministry or affects somebody else in this ministry, I have the authority of law. Now what does that mean? I have enforcement authority. What can I do? I can ask you not to come here. That's the fullest extent of my authority. I have no authority to punish you. All I could do is say (if you have a choice) if you choose to engage in behavior that I say is not acceptable here, then you can't come here. So you choose. This is the difference and you need to know it because you can't be going around thinking in your mind that someone is treating you in an ungodly manner when they're not.
I have a right to tell you that you cannot engage in behavior that is hurting me and expect me to agree with it. I have a right to tell you that I will make a judgment that such behavior in this house is acceptable or not, at which time I will ask you to cease from your behavior. It's your choice whether you stop or not and if you choose to not stop, I am within my Godly right to remove you from this household. You could continue your behavior. You just can't do it here. Now the Scripture says that everything is supposed to be done decently and in order and it's my responsibility to have order in this ministry as a minister of Living Epistles. It's my responsibility and my right to have order in this private household because I'm the head of this household. So the first thing I do is come to you and reason with you. The Scripture says let us reason together. I am a very reasonable person, brethren. I am a peacemaker. I am a peacemaker. I will come and I will plead with you to be reasonable. I'll make any reasonable compromise with you. I stop short at the point where what you want violates my perception of righteousness.
Your perception of righteousness may not agree with my perception of righteousness and you have a right to think what you want, but not in my house, you see. In my house and in the ministry that I have charge over, your perception of righteousness must line up with my perception of righteousness, at least to the extent that you honor my perception of righteousness. You don't have to believe it so long as you do it. That's what that means. So what I'm trying to do here is help your thinking. You see, if you think that somebody is unfair to you or if you think that you've been mistreated and your thinking is wrong, then it's like taking one step in the wrong direction. By the time you blink twice, you're all the way out in left field and in a lot of trouble. So what am I doing this morning? I'm trying to give you guidelines for right thinking that will help you to avoid grief in your life. Okay? I guess that's pretty much it, unless someone has a question. I think that I made that clear, but to the best of my knowledge, I have never tried to control anybody's life and I've never tried to control anybody's thoughts. I do have a very strong personality in Christ and my convictions are very strong.
Now if you're trying to change my mind or control me, you might come up against some spiritual strength, but don't think that I'm trying to control you when you're the one who's trying to control me, because you can't make me do what you want to do. I'm going to stop you and if you're thinking isn't correct, you might think that I'm the one who's trying to control you. I'm not trying to control you. These are the ground rules. I will do X, Y and Z and I will not do 1, 2 and 3. So if you want to engage in activity X, Y and Z with me, that is fine, but I will not do activity 1, 2 and 3. Why? Because I said so. So if you interpret this to believe that I'm trying to force you to engage in activity X, Y and Z, your thinking is not right. I have a right to say to you, I will do this and I will not do that and these are the rules if you want to engage in this activity with me. Then it's your turn to say yes or no.
The other person says I'll give this much, but I won't go any further and then the both of you stand there or sit there and decide whether or not you want to continue in this relationship. You sit down and take a piece of paper and write down all the positive aspects of the relationship and you write down all the negative aspects of the relationship and you choose whether or not you want this relationship. If you choose that you want it, then you have to deal with the things in the relationship that the other person is not willing to give you and you have to accept it. You can't go in and try and force them to give it to you because you have decided that you want this relationship and you are not willing to accept their right to say, I want this relationship, but I won't do this. It has to be a negotiated peace. No two people will want exactly the same thing in every area. Life is a compromise, brethren. Everything we do is a compromise and you made your choice. You made your decision. You made your priorities. Do you want this relationship? What do you base that decision upon? Is the relationship primarily positive? Do you get more benefits from it than heartache? Or is the relationship primarily negative? Is the effect of the relationship on me primarily benefitting me or is the overall effect of the relationship primarily tearing me down? If the primary effect of the relationship is tearing you down, you should really break the relationship or strictly curtail it and if you don't, you must ask yourself why not.
If you're a Christian, you must ask the Lord, could this possibly be a destructive relationship? If your answer is that it is a constructive relationship, and that the overall effect of the relationship is positive and you want it, then you must say to the Lord, what must I do to make it as positive as it could be? In what areas should I compromise or in what areas must I accept? If I had the power I would change it, but I'm not the only one here. There's another person here. How do I accept something that I wish was different? How do I compromise in a Godly manner? What concessions do I make? Where is the line? Now these are life skills, brethren, that either make or break your life. Why? Because life is a series of relationships. Life is people. Everything else that we have, houses that we live in, recording equipment, cars, all these material things that give us pleasure or pain, they're just secondary. Where would we be without people? Have you not heard about the man who became a millionaire, but was all by himself? What good is all his money if his relationships are none existent or destructive? What have you gained if there is no love in your life, if there is no respect in your life, if there is no honor in your life or if there aren't people in your life that you could depend upon? You know some people think that being is a position where people depend on you is a burden. Well, it is a burden, but what kind of a life do you have if no one can depend upon you and there's no one for you to depend upon? What kind of a life is that?
So if you want people who will let you depend on them, at some point in your life, you must mature enough to a point where you will be a dependable person or a source of dependency to somebody else, because you cannot take and take and take and take and not expect the bottom to fall out. Now when you're an infant and when you're a child, you take and take and take and take and it's acceptable, but then you grow up and you become an adult and you will surely reap what you have sown. So the faithfulness that you sow and the dependability that you sow and the commitment that you sow; whatever you do, it will be done unto you. Life is people, brethren. We must labor in relationships. If you trick, you will be tricked. If you manipulate, you will be manipulated. If you cheat, you will be cheated. You shall surely reap what you have sown and, in Christ, the Lord would like us to be the very best that we can be. He wants to teach us, brethren. He's not here to condemn us or to point a finger at us and say this is what you are. He knows what we are. Believe me, the Lord knows what we are, but He wants to give us another choice. He's not here to condemn us. He does expose our sins and He does convict us of sin, but He never condemns us. What He does is give us another choice. He says you don't have to be that way. You don't have to do that. You don't have to act like that. You can be holy like I am.
All I'm looking for is a willing heart and I give you the power to change, but you don't change overnight. You have to labor, a spiritual labor, that will result in change. Brethren, how could you change if you don't admit that what you're doing is wrong? So the Lord cannot change you until He first shows you your sins and convinces you that it's not in the other guy, but it's in you. That's the beginning. That's the hardest part, seeing our own sins, because the human tendency is to think it's always the other guy's fault. But the truth of the matter is that we, in Christ, have received the power to learn to deal with every problem known to man, not only to deal with it, but to deal with it victoriously. This is what God requires of us, no matter what the other party does. To get the best from Him, to get the most you can get from Jesus, this is what He requires of us. He requires us to look at our own heart, to evaluate our part in this conflict and to see where we could improve our thinking, our reasoning, our negotiating, our willingness to compromise. It doesn't matter what the other guy is doing. It doesn't matter if it's fair. You're spinning your wheels if you're hung up on fairness because (now listen to this) because if you do what's right and you are willing to see any ungodly contribution on your part in this conflict and you are willing to change, then one of two things happens.
After you do all that you could do, one of two things will happen. Either Jesus will speak to the other person and bring them around or after a season, He will end that relationship and give you a relationship that is Godly. Because if you've really done all that you could do (now this is not overnight) and this depends on whether we're talking about a marriage that's already existed for twenty years. The Lord is not about to tell you to get divorced. If it's talking about a short lived relationship, it depends. It's not exactly the same. But when you have done all that you could do, the Lord looks at your heart. See it's not your decision and it's not my decision. But when Jesus looks at your heart and He says you have grown and developed and matured as much as possible as a result of this painful problem in this relationship and the other person is just not doing their part, sometimes Jesus breaks the relationship. If you hang in there until the bitter end (even when you've been giving all that you could give and the other person hasn't been giving next to anything) but you haven't condemned them and you haven't hated them and you have been Christ to your fullest degree possible, then there's no more reason for the Lord to keep you in such a painful relationship. He will bring you into a partnership with a person who was on your level of reasonableness, of giving, of caring, of compromising, and honor .
Whereas you had no peace in this other relationship, you will now have a peace in this new relationship on a level where it can be said you are now reaping, all the good that you have sown, into this other relationship. It may look to your carnal eyes that all of that effort and all of that good was wasted because that person just has a stony heart. But it wasn't wasted because there's a higher law, you see. There's a higher law and that law says you will surely reap what you have sown, but God never promised that you're going to reap from this person what you have sown into this person. He merely said, you will reap what you have sown. I remind you of Job. He lost his wife, he lost all his children, he lost all his servants, he lost all his cattle, he lost all his friends and everything was restored unto him two fold. But brethren, it wasn't the same wife, it wasn't the same children, it wasn't the same friends, it wasn't even the same cows and goats. But he got another wife and he got other children and he got other servants and these relationships that came into his life were Godly. His wife was wicked. Her counsel to him was curse God and die. You need a wife like that, brethren? Do you need a wife like that? Now that doesn't mean, whoever is hearing this tape or reading this transcript, that sister Sheila said you could run out and divorce your wife or husband. Don't you dare say that about me. I never said it.
You women, don't you go running out and say sister Sheila said I should divorce you because for twenty years I'm laboring with you and you didn't change. Don't you dare use my name like that. I haven't said any such thing. I said, when Jesus makes a judgment and how would you know when Jesus makes the judgment? He will break the relationship and when Jesus breaks a relationship, brethren, that relationship is broken. If you've never experienced what I'm talking about, maybe you will someday. What Jesus put together, you can't break and what He didn't put together, when He says it's broken, you try and keep it together and you'll find out. When will He break it in such a manner that you can't put it back together again? Under what circumstances, brethren? Under two circumstances. One of the people is a son of God who is trying, in every way they know how, to live for God and they're in torment in this relationship. They've done all they could do and Jesus says that's enough, because that person is crying out, I can't bear it anymore, I can't bear it anymore, I can't bear it anymore, but I don't want to give up the relationship. Jesus, their elder, your elder, your Father, your husband, is going to say to you, I hear the cry of your true heart, that you can't take it anymore and I'm responding to it. I therefore have become deaf, as of this moment, to your soul which says I am not willing to give up the relationship.
Jesus says I have made a judgment, this relationship is killing you and you're out of it as of now. Jesus says you cannot cry out to me, out of one side of your mouth, telling me that you're in torment and then, out of the other side of your mouth, tell me how to deliver you. You can't do it, says the Lord. From the day that you start crying out to me about your torment, you better have it straight in your head that the day that I determine to answer your prayer, I'm not going to answer it under your instructions. But I will deliver you in accordance with my own mind and with my own judgment and with my own determination. If my answer to your cry is to bring an event into your life, which will produce pain in your emotions, I will not hear your cries because any affliction I bring upon you is righteous. I will not hear your cries and in due season, when you mature, you will know that there is a God in heaven who has power to deliver you from your own sins which have trapped you in this hell of a relationship. Jesus! I thought I was just going to talk for five minutes on that issue.
Brethren, you are dealing with the God of the universe. You don't play games with Him. When you cry out to God, you better know who you're crying out to and you better know that when He receives your petition, there's no way you're "Jezebeling" Him into fixing it your way. You better count the cost before you cry out to Jesus. You younger Christians don't seem to understand that when you cry out, Jesus is not coming to fix your partner. He's coming to fix you and the end of it will be glorious, but the process is always grievous. Wherever in the world did that come from? Hallelujah.
I'd like to comment on the seating here. Pretty much I believe that you should have the liberty to choose your own seats and I really don't care where you sit unless where you sit is causing me a problem. In line with this whole exhortation, the only time I might tell you where to sit, or ask you in a manner that's really telling you where to sit, is if there's something that you're doing that's distracting me. I'm asking you to please co-operate with me because it's not easy sitting here preaching with such a small group and different people have different mannerisms that sometimes distract me. It's very hard. You should try to get up here and preach sometime. This is not easy. It's not an easy thing to do. So I'm never against you and I'm never trying to embarrass you or hurt your feelings. To the best of my knowledge, I've never ever had that kind of motive in my heart. You're not doing anything that I could legitimately complain about, it's just you. So at that point where it's making it difficult for me to preach, I have a legitimate right to ask you to please don't sit in that seat. Hopefully I would give you a choice of two or three other seats so that I don't have to sound like a dictator by saying sit there. What I am saying is please don't sit there. I'm having a problem preaching under these circumstances. So I'm not trying to completely restrict your liberty. You have your choice of, pretty much, any other seat in the house. I know this morning I told three people where to sit because I was dealing with this recording situation here. I'm open to any reasonable exchange of seats. If I do it, I hope you don't feel I've violated you, but if you do feel that way, I'm sorry. My only motive is to run this meeting efficiently. I'll make any reasonable compromise with you.
I would like to start with the latest revelation that has come down. You may or you may not be aware that some revelation comes forth through my soul. What does that mean? It means when I study and look up words in the Hebrew and the Greek, I actually learn from my studies. Of course I couldn't learn if these studies weren't mixed together with the Spirit of God in me because you could do what I do. People have tried. They've looked up all the words, they've put in the time and they just don't come up with what I come up with. Why? Because all of my studies is mixed together with the Spirit of God and then I get fruit of that union and that study. That is revelation that comes through my soul, through study, basically. There is another way to get revelation and understanding from God and that is for it to come directly through your spirit without the necessity of studying. Wow, wouldn't that be marvelous? We're told in the Scripture that Jesus expounded on every scripture which prophesied His coming when He walked on the road to Emmaus. This knowledge came out of His Spirit. What does that mean? He just knew it. I'm sure He knew why and how He knew it. It was just there. Knowledge was just dropped into His mind. Now that happens to me sometimes. Most of the time I get my knowledge through study mixed with the Spirit of God. But on occasion, when I'm in a high place in the spirit, knowledge and revelation just comes out of my mouth and the thought never even occurred to me before that.
I happen to be in a very high place these days. I'm not always in the same place spiritually. People are not always in the same place spiritually. We've talked about this before, that when Jesus was communing with the Father, He was in a much higher place than He was in when He was speaking to carnal people. There is a variation in spiritual position for people that are in full stature and that this is typified in the ministry of the Zadok priesthood, which we read about in the Book of Ezekiel. It is also typified by the concept of Jacob's ladder. The ministry of the Zadok priesthood instructs us that when the priest are ministering to the Father, they have particular garments that they wear and when they're speaking to the common people, they must change their garments. So we see that Jesus had the ability to be high in the spirit or low in the spirit and still be God. That sounds like a deceptive word to say low in the spirit, but He was still God, but He came down to a lower place than He was at when He was ministering to the Father. Why? Because there's no way He could minister to carnal people on the same level that He was at with the Father. They wouldn't know what He was talking about. Yet He was still God. Now this may be a great mystery to you. First let me finish my thought. The concept of Jacob's ladder is that at the top of the ladder, you're in heaven and at the bottom of the ladder, you're in earth and being an angel, being a son of God, being in full stature, you have the power and authority to ascend or descend at will on this ladder.
It means you can talk to God on the highest level that the Father will permit you to speak to Him or that you can come down to speak to the most carnal man sleeping in the street and relate to him with understanding without losing your Godhead. So we see that there is a variation and degree of the Godhead in Christ. I don't believe that that exists when we're speaking about Jehovah who is pure Spirit. We know Jesus said, I and the Father are one, but the Father is greater than I. Spirit is greater than soul. I believe that Jesus at His highest point of spirituality, within His Godhood as Jesus of Nazareth, was not as spiritually high as the Father who was pure Spirit. That's why He said, I only do and say what my Father tells me to say and do. Why? Because being in the flesh makes you vulnerable. Even when you're in full stature there is a vulnerability available to you that you do not experience in the Spirit. There is no vulnerability whatsoever in the Spirit, to the best of my knowledge, where I now am in revelation. There is no vulnerability whatsoever once you are glorified and pure spirit. As long as you're in this flesh, the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak and as long as you're in this flesh, there is a potential for some kind of danger.
So my point is that a revelation began to come forth. I believe in our last service, it came right out of the realm of the Spirit. If you listen to the tape, if you have ears to hear it, it evolved right in the message. What does that mean? It means first I said it one way and then God corrected me right in front of you. I'm talking about the revelation with regard to the serpent and the devil and the carnal mind. As I was speaking to you, the Lord corrected me and since that message He has corrected me further. So I would like to put it on the board and clarify it to you, as I see it now, but this is a two pronged point that I'm making here. I want to clarify that revelation for you, specifically what the difference is between Satan, the devil, the serpent and the carnal mind. I want to compare it to the Lord Jesus, the position of the Lord Jesus Christ, Christ Jesus, and the Spirit of Christ. I want to show you two sides, the positive and the negative side. I'll put that on the board and I'll make it clearer. But I'm also trying to point out to you an instance that you witnessed of revelation coming forth right in the midst of the meeting, something that I had not prepared, something that I did not know before it came out of my mouth. But it has been a question that has been in my mind for a long time. I've known that there were two generations of Satan and that it was confusing that both had the same name, except that I was wrong. They didn't both have the same name. I just didn't know what the name was.
One of the things that the Lord has been doing in this ministry for the last couple of years is showing us that each aspect of spiritual truth, or something spiritual that we're speaking about, really has its own name. On the one hand it may seem so complicated to see all these technicalities and fine lines and different names. But the truth of the matter is that if you can get this into your understanding, all these subtilis, different names for different aspects of different things in the Scripture, if you can get it straight in your head, it really helps you to understand things. It helps you to rightly divide the word of truth. When you hear a particular word, know that God is speaking about a particular thing. In other words, this is a marker that I write on this white board with. This is a green marker and in that box I have a blue marker. It helps me to know green or blue. So if for any reason the color is significant or if it's me and I'm saying, please write on the board with the marker, it would make your life much easier if I said green marker or blue marker, unless it doesn't matter to me which color marker you use. But if it does matter to me and I haven't told you which color marker to use, you may have to get up there and fiddle around with both markers until you draw your own conclusion about which marker is appropriate. But if I could tell you to use the green one right from the outset, it's going to be easier for you.
So what did I say? I said, initially, it sounds like all these different names are just confusion and if that's how you're hearing them, don't let it bother you. But if your mind is mature enough, this is what I'm saying to you, without condemnation. If your mind is mature enough, these different names about different aspects of spiritual things can help you to understand what we're talking about. But if your mind isn't mature enough, there's no condemnation in that. How do you know whether your mind is mature enough or not? If what I'm saying makes you feel like you're going crazy, that I'm confusing you with all these details, it means your mind is not dealing with it. Don't worry about it. Don't try to understand it with your carnal mind. Just try to relax your mind and submit it to the teaching and either Christ will bring it through your Christ mind or you won't understand it. That's okay. This is a little red schoolroom. Everybody is not on the same level. You need to know that. Everybody is not on the same level and the level that you're on has nothing to do with your age or how many years you've been in God. It has nothing to do with it. Someone who is brand new in Christ can understand some principle that someone who has been in Christ for twenty years doesn't understand. You shouldn't be comparing yourself to one another. You should be resisting with all of your strength any spirit of pride that's making you feel bad because somebody knows something that you don't.
You should have your eyes on yourself and your eyes on Jesus and asking Him to help you have an open heart that's going to let you change so that you can go through this life with positive achievements and with peace and contentment and with joy. If you have pride in you that's causing you pain on every turn, you need deliverance from pride, because you're not suppose to have pain in your emotions on every turn. You're suppose to have peace. You're suppose to feel good about yourself. If you don't feel good about yourself, it's fruitless to blame it on other people. You must deal with life and you must learn to deal with authority. There's no way that you will ever have authority until you learn to deal with authority and submit to it. Everybody here is called to manifest authority. Everybody that's here is called to be a son and to teach and have authority over people, to correct and minister to people who are less mature than them. This is a school of ministry. Everybody here is called to that, but there are certain requirements before you can exercise authority over people and one of them is that you must learn to submit to authority. Brethren, have you ever seen a parent trying to raise up a kid, telling them to do something that they, themselves, don't do? Does it ever work? I drink, but don't you drink. I drug, but don't you drug. I fool around, but don't you dare. Has it ever worked? It never works. You can't teach it. You cannot exercise authority in an area that you are not functioning in.
If you don't think anybody is over me, you are mistaken. I'm under heavy authority, but He's invisible. If you can't see Him, that's your problem. You need to know that nobody ever gets to a place where I'm at without first having submitted to intense, intense, authority. I have been under wicked cruel men for years and submitted to them to get this job. If you think this job is easy, you're mistaken. If you think I just got it because my name was pulled out of the hat, you are mistaken. I have been subjected to the most wicked employers that your mind could ever conjure up and including one very wicked pastor. No matter what you might think of me (I don't care how you might think that I'm too tough) I'm not wicked to you. You may think I am, but someday you'll find out I'm not. I'm telling you, I was under one wicked pastor who hated me for everything that God gave me.
(At the drawing board) So this is what we're doing. I want to talk about this carnal mind and you probably never heard some of this that's coming out now. We have two kingdoms (and you may have heard this)the kingdom of darkness and we have the kingdom of light. Spiritual kingdoms are formed. Let me put it this way. The foundation of spiritual kingdoms is spirit. Spiritual kingdoms are found in the mind of man. Spiritual kingdoms, brethren, are minds. A spiritual kingdom is a mind. So we can also say the mind of darkness. We could say the mind of light. We can also say the mind of evil or the evil mind. We could say the mind of righteousness. We could also say the mind or the kingdom of lies. We can also say the mind or kingdom of truth. Anything else, anybody? Have any ideas there? The mind of evil, the kingdom of darkness; these are all scriptural terms. We just had that. The evil mind came up at a recent study of Zephaniah Chapter 3. That's a scriptural expression. You just suggested the kingdom of insanity. I have no problem with that. Everyone down here is insane. Then the kingdom or the mind of sanity.
Anybody else? The mind or the kingdom of death and the kingdom of life. What did you say? We have righteousness up here with evil, the kingdom of evil or the kingdom of righteousness. The mind of the flesh and the mind of the kingdom of the Spirit. Well, I'm sorry but the rapture is a doctrine, it's not a mind. Okay, that's enough or otherwise we'll be filling up the whole board. But I'm going to add one that you probably haven't heard of. When we did Romans 6, we did find a scripture that spoke about the wounded heart. So we have a mind or a kingdom which is wounded. How is it wounded? It lost its connection to the tree of life and then we have the mind or the kingdom of completion. The complete kingdom; well maybe that's not right. Maybe that should be completed. That's wrong. That would be the partial tree. Well this completion would line up with the partial kingdom. I don't know what would line up with the wounded kingdom now. Well I guess healed is a word for salvation. How about the saved or perfected kingdom? I like the perfected kingdom. Then we have the partial kingdom and it should be over here.
The wounded and the perfected (let's leave it healed) the wounded and the healed or the restored kingdom. How about that? The restored kingdom and the partial kingdom and the completed or perfected kingdom. There is a kingdom of peace and the kingdom of war. Well, this is going to be a fun message today, I think. The Daughter of Babylon; she's a bastard. She illegitimate. What's that? Well in the world the opposite of son is a bastard, but in spiritual kingdoms, every offspring of God is a son. So therefore every offspring that's not of God is not only a bastard, but a daughter. That's why there's no such thing as a legitimate daughter. Every daughter is a bastard because every legitimate offspring of the Father is a son. We're talking about minds here. Now the daughter of Babylon is a mind. We could say it this way. The kingdom which is illegitimate and the kingdom which is legitimate or the inherited kingdom. The inherited kingdom and the illegitimate kingdom. We could do it that way, the illegitimate kingdom or the bastard kingdom and the inherited kingdom. We could do it that way. Okay, that's good. The fallen kingdom and the redeemed kingdom. So these are all different names for the two minds which the creation is capable of bringing forth.
Now, kingdoms are spiritual kingdoms and are built on an altar. A spiritual kingdom is something that is built or born or arises out of a spiritual altar. So I'm just going to wait. You have the kingdom of tyranny and what would the corresponding one be? The kingdom of tyranny and the kingdom of righteous rule. That's good. Well there is a kingdom of love, but I don't think it's appropriate because a kingdom of tyranny is another way of saying that it's a kingdom of unrighteous control. The corresponding kingdom would be a kingdom of righteous control because it's the kingdom of righteous control or the kingdom of God's authority. That righteousness is speaking about that which is right and just. If we're going to say tyranny, we have to be emphasizing rule or law. So there's a righteous law, a righteous judgment perhaps, but so many people think that God doesn't control. God controls, brethren. There's no disorder in His kingdom. You're locked up fast. The only problem is that there is a righteous control. The only problem is that there is a reconciliation factor. What does that mean? One day to the Lord is as a thousand days to man.
It looks to our fallen carnal mind like God takes a long time to minister justice, but He doesn't. His justice is swift. It's that it takes a long time to get from the realm of the spirit or from the spirit world into the visible world, into the physical world. Sometimes it takes a long time, but not all the time. We know when God killed Ananias and Sapphira, they died quickly. But of course we don't know when their sin was committed. We really don't know that. But I believe that when there are men on the earth in full stature that we will (depending on the seriousness of the crime now) we will see judgment fall very quickly. You see, the factor is righteousness. Judgment falls on sin. The speed with which judgment falls upon sin is in direct proportion to the holiness of the son who has been sinned against. If you're sinning against someone who has no sin at all, judgment could fall on you very quickly. If you're sinning against another sinner, it could take a long time for judgment to fall upon you. If you're sinning on a minister of Christ that has some holiness, it takes time. I don't understand it all.
It depends where you are in Christ, whether you're a son, whether Christ is being formed in you or not, and the measure of maturity and the relationship that you have with the person that you sin against. I have to tell you this. There's somebody here that I have seen experience something time and time again that I've never seen with any other person. It's this lady right over here. She sins against me and walks out the door and she gets the same thing right back on her within an hour or two. Is that not true? It happens within twenty four hours. Is it not true? It's within twenty four hours. She does it to me and she walks out of here and someone does it to her. Why? I'll tell you why. Because our relationship is that I am a personal teacher sent to her to make her into a son. I have God given authority over her and not only the right to, but instruction to correct her. When she sins against me because she's refusing that correction, her (heavenly) Father doesn't like it. My "husband" (Jesus) doesn't like it. He comes home from work and she gets it, you see.
Now if you are not a son yourself, if Christ is not being formed in you, well you're not even being chastened. Then you're a bastard. You're not even being chastened at all. If Christ is being formed in you, but I am not sent to you by assignment of Christ to make a son out of you, then that's not my job. Well, I don't know when judgment will fall. I don't know when you'll reap what you sow. It may be within twenty four hours. It may be within a few years. But if there's anything of Christ in me at all and you are a son, you will reap what you have sown. The problem is sometimes we reap what we've sown so far down the line that we don't recognize it as judgment. So to have judgment fall on you that quickly, within twenty four hours, is a blessing of God because you recognize it for what it is. If it doesn't fall that quickly, you don't recognize it for what it is and then you don't learn your lesson. If you don't learn your lesson, you keep making the same mistake and you keep getting into trouble, you see. So God does exercise a righteous control. There is order in God's house, brethren. God is very strict and either you come under the rule of His God ordained authority or He puts you out.
Now you could see it in a natural church. You know in a natural church they have a whole bunch of people. They have ushers and you make a ruckus and two men come (or if you're a big guy, four men come) and they grab you and they put you out and slam the door behind you. You can't interrupt a service. Who do you think you are? But when you have a smaller group or when you have a group that's being ruled by the Spirit, you need to have spiritual eyes to see the correction of the Lord or you might miss the whole point and think that you could do anything that you want. But you can't do anything that you want just because your eyes are blind to the realm of the Spirit. You need to know that every ministry raised up by Christ has ushers that are going to deal with you if you're making a ruckus in that fellowship. If you can't see it, you're at a disadvantage. Then when you find yourself out on the street, you might think the minister had no right to do what they did, but you're just without understanding because you can't do anything you want in the house of God.
The Lord just reminded me of something that I forgot to tell you before I go on with this teaching. He did want me to give you an example of the righteous judgment of the Lord and how it works over a period of years. God can make changes over a period of years and sometimes it just takes time for His judgment to work out in the lives of people. So without naming any names, I would like to tell you that several years ago, under the instruction of the Lord, I rebuked an incestuous situation in a family that the Lord called to my attention. It wasn't physically incestuous, but there was a very ungodly relationship between a father and a daughter and a mother and, as far as I could see, it was everything but physical. It was very ungodly, where the father and the daughter had teamed up to abuse the mother. It was just very ungodly. On the instruction of the Lord, I had rebuked it and broken curses and I can't tell you exactly when it began to happen. It did not begin to happen immediately. It may have taken a whole year to see the results of that prayer begin to appear in this visible world. I really don't know because I don't see the people that often.
But at the time that I pronounced the judgment, there was a complete break in the relationship between the mother and the daughter. They didn't speak to each other at all and the daughter worked for the father and they went out to all these fancy restaurants and traveled on business. They really had a very strong relationship that excluded the wife and looked very much like a man with a girlfriend. What happened? The first thing that happened was that the Lord restored the daughter's relationship with the mother. That was the first thing that came to my ears. The next thing that came to my ears was that the business, that the daughter was in with the father, started to go down the tubes. At the point that it's at now, it looks like that business might fold and they won't be able to work together anymore. This has happened over a period of years. God is separating them. You think God can't separate people? You don't know what you're talking about. You're ignorant. You think God doesn't control relationships, you're ignorant and you don't know what you're talking about. He just operates differently than men.
See, what a man does is obvious to your natural eyes. I knew a girl once who got mixed up with some guy that was really going to ruin her life. Her father went and got him deported. He just got him kicked right out of the country. The girl screamed and yelled. Too bad! You think God doesn't break up relationships? You are mistaken. God breaks up relationships. But it may happen a couple of years after the prayer is prayed. I know I prayed for somebody once, with their agreement. They were involved in a relationship they couldn't seem to get out of. With their agreement I prayed, Lord, if it's of you, let them get married. If it's not of you, bust this thing up and much to my shock, it took almost five years to bust that thing up, but bust it, He did. It busted, but if you would have asked me if something like that would have taken five years, at the time I would have said, no way. It could never take five years. These people were so mixed up in each other they would have never broken free from each other (that's my opinion) if it weren't for the power of God. So don't be deceived because it takes that long.
On the other hand I prayed for somebody else and with their permission, at their request, if a relationship wasn't of the Lord to bust it up and it broke up four days later. The person called me up and said I have to be careful when I ask you to pray for me. Four days later, that was it. It depends on where you are in God, you see. It depends on how badly stuck you are in the ungodly aspects of the relationship. It depends on how badly your soul is entangled in wickedness and it depends on how badly you really want to get out if it's really not God. Now concerning the one that busted up in four days, this woman who called me up, really had a revelation of the disaster that could be in her life if this relationship was not of God. She was in full agreement that if it wasn't of the Lord that it should break and that it should break now and it broke in four days. The other woman took five years. She had a vague revelation that her life wasn't right, but she really wanted that guy and that's why it took five years to break it up. It depends on how much you're in agreement with what the Lord is doing. But you need to know that once you pray that prayer, honey, you can't take it back. Don't you try and take it back because you may break your part of it, but the Lord won't break His. He heard you and it has already started to move in the realm of the spirit. It's too late. Righteousness will be done.
I know somebody else that came to the Lord and they were so filled with pride, that they said, Lord, if this relationship is not of you, end it. They never thought in a million years God would end it. Well much to their shock, I don't think it took more than a couple of weeks. God controls directly dependent on the degree of your commitment to Him. He controls. Okay, let's go on with this. You can't do anything you want. That's how this country is going off. We think democracy means you can do anything you want. No it doesn't. You can't do anything you want.
Okay, we're talking about spiritual altars now. So I hope I established for you that a kingdom is a mind and that there are basically only two minds in this creation. Each mind has a variety of names, each name of which describes a particular aspect of that mind. The kingdom of darkness means, if you have a carnal mind, there's darkness in your mind. The kingdom of unrighteousness means that there's unrighteousness manifesting in your mind. The kingdom of war means that you have a mind that wages war continuously. They're all the carnal mind. They're different qualities of the personality which is generated by the carnal mind. So we see that a mind is an offspring which is born of a union of two spirits. One is a dominant spirit and the other a less dominant or a passive or a female spirit. The female spirit is always the same in whichever mind is born in this man and her name is Eve. The Scripture says she is the mother of all living. Eve is the human spirit or the spirit which is in man. Eve is the mother of all living. Jesus said, I am the son of God and I am the son of man. What He was saying is, that my mother was Eve, the human spirit, and my daddy was God. It's like saying my mother is Evelyn and my daddy is Lewis. You have a mother and a father. The spirit of man and the Spirit of God joined up and formed an altar and upon that altar or of that union was born the Son of God. So we see that an altar is the union of two spirits. Let's simplify it. Let's give one name to all these names that we had up here for the kingdom of darkness. We'll call her the negative kingdom and for all the names that we had under the kingdom of light, we'll call him the positive kingdom.
(Continuing at the drawing board) So we see this altar. I wish I knew how to draw an altar, but I don't. Eve is joined with the Serpent. Now up until now I've been telling you that it's Satan that joins with Eve to form the carnal mind, but now we're changing this. We're finding out that the Scripture speaks about the Serpent, that old Serpent, which is of old. What does that mean? The serpent has been around from the beginning of time. The Serpent is found in the earth that the soul is made of and was there from the beginning. So we're going to call this altar the serpentine altar, the union of the Serpent and Eve and there is an offspring that comes forth on that altar which lays upon it. Let me get this straight, Lord. The offspring is a mind. The name of that mind is the carnal mind, which is death. So we have three elements here. The female seed, the male seed, the serpent and the mind which is born.
Now actually, that's wrong. (Laughter) That's wrong. I'm sorry. The offspring of Eve and the serpent is the devil.
What is the difference between the Devil and the Carnal Mind? The Devil is mortal humanity's Old Man revealed through a human personality. The Carnal Mind is the mind of our Old Man. Cain, the wicked one, the offspring of the Woman and the Serpent, is the conscious part of the Carnal Mind. The unconscious part of the Carnal Mind is Satan, and the subconscious part is Leviathan. The whole inner man (Satan, Leviathan and Cain) goes by the name of Cain, who, for all intents and purposes, is fallen Adam. Paul calls Cain, or fallen Adam, our "old man."
With regard to the Godly mind, we see Eve joining with the Lord Jesus Christ and that which is born of the altar or the union between the Lord Jesus Christ and Eve, the mother of all living, is the man, Christ Jesus. Christ Jesus has an unconscious mind and a conscious mind. The unconscious mind of Christ Jesus is the Spirit of Christ. The conscious mind is the mind of Christ.
So we see that it's not so much a mind that is born of the union of the two spirits, but more a person. We know that Christ Jesus is a man. We're told that there is only one mediator between man and God, the man Christ Jesus. He has a conscious and an unconscious mind and He has a mother and a father, Eve and the Lord Jesus Christ. I will call this the Christine altar, if you will. It's the altar of Christ and Christ is a family, you see. If your family's last name is Smith, you have Daddy Smith, Mommy Smith, Smith Jr. and you have all of the children. All their first names are different, but they're all the Smith family. So we see a Christine family here and Daddy's name is the Lord Jesus Christ and Daddy Jr. is called Christ Jesus. Two generations of Christ and then we have the serpentine altar, two generations of the Serpent. The first one is called the Serpent and the second generation is called the devil or death. Underneath the second generation or the second generation is broken down into the conscious and the unconscious mind. The unconscious mind is spirit and the conscious mind is soul.
This is the devil, death, and this is Christ Jesus, which is the man Christ Jesus, which is life and we see the woman, whose name is the devil and death. You know the Scripture speaks a lot about the woman, that harlot. Did you ever wonder if she has a name? She has a name. Her name is the devil. The name of the woman that the Scripture speaks about is the devil. Her unconscious mind is Satan and her conscious mind is called the carnal mind. She's the second generation of the serpent and she's appearing in this world as it stands now. Jesus! The man, Christ Jesus, He has a mind and an unconscious mind. You know, this is interesting. I've recently had several books out on the brain. If you look at a picture of the brain, there is a (I may not be remembering the correct words, but there's like a bottom part to the brain) and all of the functions of the unconscious mind are underneath and then there's the frontal lobe of the brain (but I could be mistaken) which lies on top of the part of the brain which controls the unconscious mind.
So this spiritual reality is a physical reality in our brain. There's two parts to the brain, a smaller part underneath and that is covered over by the larger part of the brain. The conscious mind is covering over the unconscious mind, but the unconscious mind rules. I read in a psychiatry magazine once, that depending on the person, up to ninety five percent of what a man does is dictated by his unconscious mind. We never even stop to think about why we do it. We just do it. Either we've been programmed by our caretakers and do it in righteousness, because that's what our mother or father taught us to do, or under the grips of some sin filled mind, we don't even know why we are doing it. It could be some curse that goes back generations. Very few people actively choose their lifestyle and actively choose what they're going to do; very few people. Most people just get swept along in the tide. You say, you're going to marry your lover. Well she's no good for you. What could I do? I love her. What do you mean what could you do? You don't marry her. Who's going to rule here? Your brain or your feelings? If you follow your feelings, you're going into the ditch. You don't marry because of what you feel. You look at your whole potential life and you make a conscious rational choice despite what you're feeling. Is this marriage going to work or isn't it?
Any questions on this issue? Please put it on the microphone.
COMMENT: So who was the guy that got kicked out of heaven?
PASTOR VITALE: That's a good question. The name of the guy that got kicked out of heaven; does anybody know the answer to that? Adam was the guy who got kicked out of heaven. I happen to agree that Lucifer was Adam, but I don't want to get into any controversy right now. I believe that Lucifer is Adam, but right now let's keep it straight to answer this question. Adam was the guy who got kicked out of heaven. However we see here a mystery. Adam, the man, is either righteous or unrighteous, depending upon the mind that's in it. You see, a man is righteous or unrighteous depending on the condition of his mind. So when you talk about getting kicked out of heaven, you have to ask yourself what heaven is. How did Adam get kicked out of heaven? Adam had a righteous mind.
Adam was righteous. How do I know? The Scripture says that God set him upright and put him in a garden where all his needs would be met. That means God said to him, you're going to have all the benefits of a righteous man. So for Adam to get kicked out of heaven, it means he lost his righteous mind. He lost his mind. That's why he's insane. All of us down here are spiritually insane. Now when he lost his righteous mind, God gave him a choice. God didn't give him a choice. God made a choice. God could have decided to wipe this creation out completely or to give us a replacement mind until such time as He could restore our righteous mind. So God decided not to wipe us out completely and He gave us (you know when you get a temporary filling) He gave us a temporary filling. So rather than let us die, God gave us an unrighteous mind. The Scripture says that Adam got kicked out of heaven and he went down to hell.
So we see that that righteous mind is heaven and that the unrighteous mind is hell. So we see that heaven or hell is in the mind and that which is in the mind reflects in our external existence. That occurs on two different levels. One level is produced by the first generation of the mind. What level? One level of existence; what level? This world, the physical world that we live in, is produced by the first generation. If you recall the teaching I just had on the board, depending on what altar is forming this mind or external world out here, we'll either be heaven or hell. Depending on which mind is in us, the circumstances of our life will be either heaven or hell. Hell is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Hell is two sided, good and evil. Does anybody know what the good of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is? It's the human spirit. Another name for the human spirit is Christ. But she's the Christ who died. She's the Christ in a weakened condition. She's the Christ who has been injected into the earth in the form of the female seed waiting for the Lord Jesus Christ to join with her and make an altar which will produce Christ Jesus.
So she's only half a man, the good part of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. She's just Christ. To become a man that's strong enough to have all the blessings of God, she needs the Lord Jesus Christ and Christ Jesus. She's only one of a three fold cord that we need to experience a good life. The evil of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; that should be simple. Who is that? The Serpent. Now we know the difference between the Serpent and Satan. The evil is the Serpent which was in the creation from the beginning. So we see down here in hell, we have a mind that has a potential, both for good and both for evil. But here is the great mystery, the potential for evil is stronger, brethren, down here in hell than the potential for good, who is just one out of a three part cord. Down here in hell, the Serpent is stronger than Christ or Eve by herself. So we can say that righteous Adam was kicked out of heaven and he is now become righteous or fallen or dead Adam. Did that answer your question?
Any other questions on this? Please use the microphone.
COMMENT: You say the evil is stronger. Why is that so? Is it because of the fall?
PASTOR VITALE: Well it's a part of the fall. It's the condition of the fall. For good to be strong, it has to be righteous. It's really time to take this break and I really want to stop here because for some reason, I'm very tired. But as soon as we come back from our break, I'll answer that question. Okay, it's a good question.
We're back. There's a couple of issues that the Lord had told me to address in the exhortation, which for some reason got past me, so this is one of them. To be a son of God, the Lord wants us to be well rounded people and matured or cooked on every side. Isn't there a scripture that says someone is a cake baked on one side? Who's the cake baked on one side. Is it Ephraim? He's half baked? (laughter) It may not be Ephraim. God wants us to be well rounded. So if there is anybody who thinks that they're going to study all this high doctrine and practice spiritual gifts alone and be a son of God, you're mistaken. You're mistaken. To be a son of God, you have to be cooked on all sides. That means you have to be emotionally matured and you have to be socially matured as well as spiritually matured. If you are truly under the instruction of the Lord to be in training to be a son; some people think they are, but they're not. If you're truly in such a ministry or under such an anointing, wherever God has you, you need to know that you're suppose to be in a program which is maturing you in every area of life. That means no matter how spiritual you are, if the Lord reveals a social lack in you; what does that mean? If you're lacking in a social grace, if there's something you don't know, that you were never taught, as to how to relate to another human being; God wants that corrected. We are suppose to be as harmless as doves and as wise as serpents. Now included under the category of being as harmless as a dove means to be a diplomat.
What is a diplomat? A diplomat is somebody who is sent to a foreign country as a representative of another country. Diplomats are exceedingly polite people. Why? Because those people who have made a study out of public relations and relationships between nations know that when you deal with people of different nationalities and different ethnic backgrounds, that people think differently about the same issue. What is offensive to one man may not be offensive to another or what may not be offensive to one man may be offensive to another. We always have to set our goals in life. If our goal is peace, if our goal is communication, if our goal is a productive healthy relationship, then we need to know how to relate to other people in a way that will be least likely to offend them without compromising righteousness. If you know that sitting on the right side of somebody will offend them (it really doesn't make any difference to you whether you sit on their right side or their left side) but you just never knew that sitting on their right side offended them. Surely if you knew, you would choose to sit on their left side. It's really as simple as that. So we need to be sensitive to one another and to know what will offend other people and if we can give them what they need without compromising righteousness, we should give it to them. If what they want from me will violate me or will be an act of unrighteousness, then I cannot give it to you. But if what you need makes no difference to me, I will give it to you. I tell you all the time, I will give you anything that you ask me for that I can give you so long as it's not producing or it's not a result of unrighteousness.
So long as you're not asking me for an ungodly thing, so long as you're not asking me for something that violates me personally, if I can give it to you, I will give it to you. Maybe I can't give it to you. Maybe you're asking me for something that I don't have to give you or maybe if you're asking for my time, for example, and I've made a judgment that there's someone who has a greater need than you do, then I can't give it to you. But if I can give it to you, I'll give it to you. I had so much trouble getting up to my sister's house yesterday, I couldn't believe it. First of all I had an event here that gave me only three hours sleep the night before. Then I'm suppose to get out of here at nine o'clock in the morning and at a quarter to eleven, as I was headed out the door, my doorbell rings and there's somebody standing there asking if they could possibly see me for an hour. I had to tell them no. I had to tell them no. I haven't seen my sister in six months and I had to be back for this meeting this morning and they were expecting me for lunch. I was already two hours late. I just couldn't see them, not even for fifteen minutes. I had to go. But if I can give it to you, I'll give it to you, but if I can't, I can't. Then if you demand it, even when I make a judgment that I can't give it to you, then we're getting into witchcraft control. You have to accept a person on the basis of who you know them to be. If they're basically striving to treat you decently and they tell you they can't give you what you want, you have to accept it. You can't get everything that you want. That's not realistic. Life isn't like that. Praise the Lord.
There was also something else that the Lord wanted me to talk about, which has alluded me. But things have been going pretty well this morning. Okay, when we stopped for our break, we were answering a question about who the guy was in heaven that fell. I hope I made it clear that there's only one soul. His name is Adam. God made one soul and that soul was capable of having a mind in it which is alive, but that soul is also capable of producing a mind which is dead. Depending on whether the mind in the soul is alive or dead determines whether or not the soul is alive or dead. So we had a soul called Adam and God gave him a living mind which made him a living soul. But there was a tragedy and a second mind was born in the soul and that mind was death. The dead mind killed the living mind and the only mind in the creation became the dead mind, therefore the soul which was a living soul, became a dead soul. Eventually, the mind and the soul must be in agreement as to whether they are both alive or whether they are both dead.
The only time the mind and the soul will be at disagreement as to whether they are both alive or both dead is during a position or a time of transition. So we see that to fall out of heaven means to fall out of a living mind into a dead mind. How does this happen? The very essence of our nature makes us a complicated spiritual being. We have more than one part. Whether or not the mind is alive or dead, is built around that basic element of which we are. What is that called? What part of us is the seed around which either life or death is built? The human spirit, amen. So when we are being converted from one mind to another mind, it means that everything other than the very human spirit herself, of which the mind is made, is stripped off of her and she's stripped down bare. The Scripture calls her naked. She's stripped naked into her basic human spirit and then she's either built in righteousness, which is life, which is Christ, or she's built into death. She's remade, she's reformed, she's renewed and when she's the human spirit by herself, she's not a mind. She's likened unto a woman's ovum. She's not a mind. She can't do very much by herself. She has to be formed into a mind to be able to engage in any form of spiritual activity.
Okay, you have a question? Please use the microphone.
COMMENT: I had asked you before how did the carnal mind get stronger? Was it because of the fall?
PASTOR VITALE: It was a result of the fall. But this is the basic situation. Just let me think a second about how I'm going to answer that for you. You asked me how the carnal mind is stronger than the human spirit? Is that what you asked me?
COMMENT: The whole formation of the offspring, the carnal mind, are they a three fold cord? Did the fall make them a three fold cord and is that how it was stronger than the mind of Christ?
PASTOR VITALE: Okay, let's try and take this from the beginning here. Let's try and do this with some logic here. (Working at the drawing board) Spiritually speaking, full strength comes with agreement. How can two walk together if they're not in agreement? How can two walk together if they're not in agreement? Okay, this was the situation before the fall. We had an altar erected in the man, Adam, and the altar was made up of Eve and Jehovah. Are you with me? This is the female spirit and the male spirit and there was an offspring born of this union. The name of the offspring was Christ Jesus, the man, Christ Jesus. The man that was formed was Christ Jesus. I'll go into more detail on that in a little while, okay?
This revelation is evolving. So you may have never heard this before. It's coming forth now. The name of the man at the beginning of time was Christ Jesus, but obviously there was a difference between that man and the Lord Jesus Christ. Why? Because Christ Jesus fell and the Lord Jesus Christ didn't. We have said in the past that the man, Christ Jesus at the beginning of time, was immature and inexperienced and therefore he was killed by the carnal mind. The basic difference between him and the Lord Jesus Christ is that the Lord Jesus Christ grew up from seed. He was born to natural parents who instructed Him in righteousness and He grew up having overcoming experiences, experiences of overcoming evil, which eventually strengthened Him to the point that when He was tempted by evil, He made an active choice. He said, I don't care what I'm feeling, the answer is no. We see that with regard to Christ Jesus, he had no overcoming experiences to back him up. All that he had was the commandment that the Father gave him, thou shalt not; thou shalt not or thou shalt surely die. And Christ Jesus says alright, what is death? He didn't even know what death was. He had no experience of death. He had no experience of sin. He had no acquaintanceship with the consequence of sin nor did he have any experience with evil. He couldn't even recognize it. Listen brethren, if God says to you (and He does say to us) beware, Satan comes to you as an angel of light and if it were possible, the very elect would be deceived.
You read it in the Book and you say, oh boy, watch out for the angel of light because the very elect could be deceived. But brethren, you tell me what an angel of light looks like. You could instruct me for the next forty eight hours or the next forty eight years as to what an angel of light looks like and when that guy comes walking through the door, the chances are nine out of ten, you'll never recognize him for what he is unless you have some experience with angels of light or you have the Lord Jesus Christ in your head and you could hear Him. It's not enough to have Him in your head, you have to hear Him; here comes an angel of light and that angel of light has your name in his hand and he's looking to bring you down. If you follow my instructions exactly, I'll get you through this mess, but if you think that you know all the answers and if you think that you're too sharp to be deceived, and if you think that there's no way you could mess up, you better watch out because it says in another place that he who thinks he is standing is getting ready to take one big fall. Brethren, there's only one person that can keep you standing and His name is the Lord Jesus Christ. You see, it's not Christ Jesus. It takes the Lord Jesus Christ to keep you standing. You need both, the Father and the Son. All you Christians out there that think all you need is the Son, hear this; Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall and Humpty Dumpty had a great fall and all the king's horses and all the king's men could not put Humpty Dumpty together again. You'll have to start from scratch if the King lets you.
So we see at the beginning of time, we had an altar established, even Jehovah and the product or the offspring born of that union, is the man Christ Jesus. You see, the word Adam actually does not mean man. Everybody says Adam was the first man and all that, but a lot of this is tradition. If you look at it in the Hebrew, all that Adam means is that he was God's creation and he was ruddy. It doesn't say he was a man. All it says is that God may have formed something. God formed Adam out of the earth. Well God never said Adam was a man. He was the creation and the name of the creation, if you want to get technical, was Christ Jesus, the son of the Living God. Now for this altar to stay together, there had to be agreement. Now this man, Christ Jesus, had a mind. The man, Christ Jesus, was made of soul; that's the earth. He had an unconscious mind, which was the Spirit of Christ, and a conscious mind which was the mind of Christ. Now for Him to stay in this condition, all three elements here, Eve, Jehovah and Christ Jesus, had to be in agreement. Agreement as to what? They had to be in agreement as to the fact that the other part of the earth which was wicked, would stay in subjection to the Spirit of Christ and the mind of Christ and Jehovah because in the earth was an element of evil.
So to keep the creation alive, Jehovah, the Spirit of Christ and the mind of Christ, which is like saying, Sheila (her brain) and her liver and her lungs all had to agree that this negative element, this evil in the earth, would remain contained and controlled and inactive. The problem is that this negative element in the earth had seductive powers and she manifested her seductive powers. God said to the man; He said, Christ Jesus, you are the one who's in control here. You are to hold on and keep subdued the human spirit which is vulnerable. You're in charge and so long as this whole creation is in agreement, you'll stay alive. Now remember, this soul, this man Christ Jesus, has three parts. The soul is a part of him. The evil in the earth is a part of him. So this part of the creation, earth, and the pestilence in the earth, rose up and started making noises which can be likened to a man's passion when he's tempted to adultery. The man, Christ Jesus, fell out of agreement with Jehovah, the Spirit of Christ and the mind of Christ. The Spirit of Christ and the mind of Christ fell out of agreement with Jehovah, that they would keep the pestilence in the earth down. So actually what happened was that this broke up, this mind broke up, because they fell out of agreement with Jehovah. Look, when Christ Jesus fell out of agreement with Jehovah, Christ Jesus died. Can you hear that? Am I losing you?
When the mind falls out of agreement with his Father, there is a separation. Lack of agreement is a separation. The man separated from his Father. When we separated from our Father, we died. The next thing that happened is that this altar broke. I feel like I'm losing you completely. Am I losing you completely? So the whole thing broke up. The whole altar broke up and we found Eve, the human spirit, by herself, unprotected, and the pestilence in the earth came to her and formed his altar. So we see the formation of the serpentine altar and the serpent brought forth his offspring which is called the devil. I remember what your question was now. I had said that in the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, evil was stronger than good and you said how could that be? Okay, this is how it could be. Well, let me put it to you this way. Christ Jesus, the fruit of the union between Eve and Jehovah is the Tree of Life. Another name for Him is the Tree of Life. So we see the serpent came forth and brought forth his offspring, the devil, and the devil is also a tree, of the knowledge of good and evil. So we see that the devil is the evil one. Right? The devil is a three fold cord. The devil is the fruit of the union between Eve and the serpent. The devil is a three fold cord and the devil is the evil of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. But the good in the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is just Eve by herself. She's a single strand.
You have a question?
COMMENT: So it broke when the fall came, right? Actually it was a three fold cord before it broke and it formed another three fold cord which was evil.
PASTOR VITALE: It was a three fold cord in Christ first. So the evil of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is a three fold cord and the good of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is just one strand of that three fold cord. That's why the evil is stronger than the good, so long as the mind of the creation is in this negative form. So we could put this several ways. We could say, at the beginning of time, when the mind of the creation was the man Christ Jesus, the creation was positive or alive or the Tree of Life. When the creation died and the mind of death was formed in the creation (which is our condition now) the creation is negative and called the devil and dead. We can also say that when the creation was a Tree of Life, it was in a garden called Eden. It was a garden in which every need was provided. I suggest to you, that when the creation died, it was still in a garden. If you have trouble believing that, that's okay, but I'm going to give you some spiritual truth. The Scripture says the man was driven out of the Garden of Eden, but in another place we're told that Cain was sent to a place "east" of Eden. If you look up that Hebrew word translated "east" it is not the same Hebrew word that's used to describe the direction east, but it is another Hebrew word which speaks about weakness. It is a female word, a feminine word.
I suggest to you that the Scripture is saying that when the tree of life or the mind of Christ died and the mind of the creation became the devil, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the external environment that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was living in, was and is a garden. It's a garden, which is on the east side or on the female side or on the weak side of Eden. So we see the garden in which the tree of life dwells is on the west side of Eden. What is Eden? The visible world. A garden is a visible place. The west side of the garden is where the tree of life is. That is masculine; male, strong. The dead creation called the devil is on the east side of Eden or on the weak side or on the female side of Eden. Another way to say it is that the garden or the creation was on the positive side and now it's on the negative side. That which was good is now evil. It flipped inside out. It turned inside out, brethren. We could also say that it is the garden of death or the garden on the east side. We can also say it is the land of Nod, also called the land of forgetfulness or the land of sleep. The garden of Eden, we could say, is the land of sight, the land of vision, the land of awareness and the land of spiritual knowledge. So we see, we have two minds, one dead and one alive. We have two gardens, one positive and one negative; one which provides all your needs and one which doesn't provide all your needs and one aware in awareness and in light and the other in darkness and ignorance, spiritual ignorance.
One is on the inside and one on the outside because the curse says to the devil, you're going to spend the rest of your days in outer darkness and the spirit is within. So the farther you get away from the spirit, the darker things are. The curse means you're going to not be spiritual, not with the spirit of God anyway. You're going to be in ignorance, in darkness and in death. So I hope I made this clear. This is very interesting. So let me just point out one more thing to you. I don't know if anybody here picked this up, but I sort of hinted at it when I said Christ Jesus fell out of agreement with Jehovah. Why? Jehovah said, keep the garden, keep the soul and don't let any weeds grow in it. The carnal mind is a weed. Jehovah said, don't let Satan plant his seed in your soul because you're going to grow a spiritual weed. It's going to be stronger than you and kill you. If you know anything about gardening, you know that weeds are stronger than cultivated plants. The mind of Christ or Christ Jesus is a cultivated plant and the devil is a weed. So when the man, Christ Jesus, fell out of agreement with His Father, He had to separate from his Father and for this cause shall a man separate from his Father and his mother and cleave unto his wife. For what cause? I want to suggest to you that the name of Eve, the human spirit, is spirit out of the Father. Her name is Christ. Her name is Christ too. That's why the offspring of the union between Eve and Jehovah has to be Christ Jesus, the man, because the human spirit bears the name Christ, also.
Wherever you hear the name Christ alone, if you hear about the Christ consciousness or any talk about Christ alone, whoever you're talking to, whether they know it or not, is speaking about the human spirit as a single strand. Because to be talking about the man Christ Jesus, to be speaking about a Christ with power, you have to be speaking about the Christ Jesus, which is the product of an altar, which is formed between Eve and Jehovah and the man Christ Jesus, a three fold cord. So if they're talking about Eve alone, you're talking about only one third and not even half of a man. You're talking about one third of a man and she is weak and in this condition now. She's not only weak in herself, but she's joined to Satan. She's in bondage in this hour. She's a part of the devil's altar, of the serpentine altar. So I'm not going to get into the whole thing now, because I haven't really finished researching it, but that scripture which says, and for this reason a man must leave his father and his mother and join unto his wife, the Lord is showing me what that scripture is really saying. For what reason; for the reason that Christ Jesus fell out of agreement with Jehovah and therefore let the pestilence in the earth (Satan) join with the female Christ. The result of that was the devil was born. So for this reason the man has to separate from his mother and Father and cleave unto his wife, the devil; if you can hear it. I just want to get all the Hebrew words for you and I'll preach it on another message.
But I always wondered how those couple of verses about a man cleaving unto his wife fitted into the context of Genesis 2. It never sat right with me. The Lord is showing me that it's not at all the way it's translated. The reason the man had to leave his mother and Father and cleave unto his wife, the devil or the carnal mind, was because the man messed up. How did he mess up? Let me say it one more time. He fell out of agreement with his Father. He was disobedient to his Father. He let the pestilence in the earth, Satan, join with Christ, the female in the family and she got pregnant and she gave birth to the carnal mind, which is the devil. So now we have the mind of Christ and the devil in the same creation and the Lord told him, if you eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and the carnal mind is formed in you, the carnal mind is stronger than Christ and she's going to kill you. So Adam fell out of agreement with Jehovah. Satan messed around with the female member of the family, Christ. She became pregnant with the carnal mind and when the carnal mind was born, she killed Christ Jesus. So for that reason, this man, Christ Jesus, had to leave his mother and his Father. Why? Because the carnal mind took over the creation. Do you understand what I said? Isn't that fascinating? There's more. I just want to get all the Hebrew words looked up and get it together for you. I'll go into bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh. I just have to get it straight in my head before I preach it. But it's not what the King James translators made it at all. This is one of the basic principles of what it's saying. It's talking about the fall.
So anybody have any questions on this?
COMMENT: In respect to all this, all the names were changed also. You had mentioned one time that there's a reason for all the names to be changed. So I assume that this is a reason for devil, the carnal mind, etc.
PASTOR VITALE: Once you get the name straight, it really helps you to understand this other revelation. I just keep exhorting you, if you're confused, don't try to understand it with your carnal mind. Wait for the Christ mind to understand it. Don't worry about any of this stuff. It will come if you'll just sit under this and subject yourself to it. The seeds will go in and it will come. Don't try to understand it with your carnal mind because that's how we got the whole King James Translation and all the other translations of the Bible. It's the carnal minds' translation of the Bible. I'm telling you, this is my "high." This stuff just gets me so excited. It's my whole life.
You have a question?
COMMENT: This is in relation to this question of who fell out of heaven. As far as in creation, you've got all these different names with the devil, the serpent and Satan. I'd like to know when you call the creation Adam, when you call it Christ Jesus, when you call it Lucifer, because Lucifer was the man. Scripture says is this the man that caused the nations to fall? I'd like to know why all those different names and when you call them by those names.
PASTOR VITALE: Okay. Basically each of the different names are subtle variations emphasizing a particular aspect of the man for the purpose of understanding. So Adam, I said earlier, really does not mean man. Adam means ruddy. Adam is the creation that God formed out of the earth, but God does not call Adam a man until "until" the woman is formed. At the moment that the woman was formed, that was the first time God ever called the creation a man, a man not as we know a man today, but simply that which is opposite of a woman, strong not weak. That's all that those words mean in Genesis 2. Man means the strong, hard part and the woman is the soft and the weak part of the creation. That's all that it means and that's the first time the word man appears. Adam does not mean man.
The Hebrew word that means man is "ish." The Hebrew word for Adam is "Adom." Adam does not mean man. It means Adam, red and ruddy and it is a word which is derived from the Hebrew word, which I think is pronounced very much like Adam, maybe with a different inflection in it, which is the word for earth. It wasn't even a man. It was something. It was a blob that was formed out of the earth. It was something that was formed out of the earth and he is not called a man until the woman was created, man being opposite of woman.
COMMENT: Adam was just the earth that the creation was made out of, the earth that was picked up to make the creation out of.
PASTOR VITALE: Not exactly, but the words are very close in the Hebrew. The earth is something like adamah and then when that earth came into a formation, it was called Adam; just a variation, the slightest variation. We're talking about formed earth and unformed earth. That's what we're talking about.
COMMENT: Adamah is earth, while Adam is a formed earth or has some form to it.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, Adam is earth in a form. It's as if you take sand at the beach and form it into a sand castle. One is unformed sand and the other is formed sand. As far as Lucifer is concerned the prophet, Isaiah, never used Lucifer as a name. In the Hebrew or the Aramaic, which is a form of Hebrew, Lucifer was never a name. It is a Hebrew word which means light bearer, candle stick carrier of the light.
When the Hebrew was translated into Latin by some Roman Catholic monk somewhere, they made a change. This is an historical fact. This is just not me. It's printed as a footnote in the Amplified Bible, which is a Catholic work in itself. It will tell you that some Catholic monk, somewhere, made this Hebrew word that's translated Lucifer, into a Latin word. The Hebrew was translated into Latin and then the Latin was translated into Greek and I think the English was translated from the Greek, if I'm not mistaken. So the Roman Catholic monk took this Hebrew word that means light bearer and made it into a name, Lucifer. Then when the scripture was translated from the Latin into the Greek, whoever did that translation, kept it as a name. Then when it was translated from the Greek into English, they kept it as a name, but in the Hebrew it's not a name.
COMMENT: Is it a noun or an adjective or what? Is it explained?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, it's explained in the Hebrew. He was a light bearer. He was the earth. He was the light bearer, the bearer of the light. Light is a noun. Bearer is an adjective. It's a combination. Well, I guess you would call it a noun, but it's not a proper name. It's an office. He was the carrier of the light. So the carrier is the soul and the light is Christ.
He was the creation whose mind was Christ, the light carrier, the vessel.
COMMENT: Okay, this is just something explaining that man. It's not taking away from the fact that it was a man. It was something that was explaining that man.
PASTOR VITALE: He was a man who was the light bearer. It's an office, a function. Did I answer your question?
COMMENT: I don't know if I'm in confusion or what, but back in one of your earlier tapes, you had said that (I believe it was Jesus, maybe you gave it another word) was from the great explosion and when it came down it was a meteorite. Is that Adam? I'm really confused. What part is that in comparison to what you're teaching now?
PASTOR VITALE: The son that was propelled into the earth was the spiritual son before he was made into a man. He was spirit that separated from the Father and was forced into the earth. That's Jehovah breathing the breath of life into the creation. That was the spirit connecting with the earth. The man has two sides to him. He's spirit and he's earth. So this connection that you're talking about, this "big bang" was the joining of the spirit to the earth or the breathing of the breath of life into the earth, which gave life to the formation of Adam. Anybody else?
Praise the Lord. Isn't that interesting?
COMMENT: I'm wondering about him being the light bearer. Now when he had the fall, he went into darkness. Would that be right?
PASTOR VITALE: He became the darkness bearer. That's correct. The word bearer is referring to the carrier. It's the soul and the soul is the carrier or the body of either the light or the darkness. The soul is the cup in which either the light or the darkness is ruling. The cup can carry tea or coffee.
COMMENT: Am I right in thinking that Lucifer is the soul of Christ Jesus in the beginning of time?
PASTOR VITALE: Is Lucifer the soul? Is the light bearer the soul? Yes, the light bearer is the name of the soul when the mind in it is Christ. Yes, that is correct. Anybody else? Now the Lord seems to want me to go on here. I'm not thrilled when He does this to me. I am really not fully prepared to give you this teaching from any scholarly point of view, but I will give it to you as I have it. (Laughter)
You have a question?
COMMENT: Was sin before the fall or was the fall before sin or do they kind of both meet at the crossroads?
PASTOR VITALE: Sin is an action and the active sin produced the fall. The active sin resulted in the fall. But what you may be asking me is this. Man had within him the potential to sin, but he had not yet sinned. He had the potential to sin, but he had not yet sinned. You see, the man Jesus of Nazareth, when He became Christ, was incapable of sin. Let me put it to you this way. Man had the potential to sin and when the temptation came, he sinned. The result of the sin was spiritual death, which is known as the fall. When the Lord gets through with us, when the Lord gets through with raising us from the dead, we will be incapable of sin. Satan can tempt us all he wants and God will have rebuilt us in such a condition that we are incapable of sin. Actually it's an interesting question. Before the fall, man had the potential for sin, but had not yet sinned. So we see that we had a creation that was both positive and negative, but it was appearing positive. When the man sinned, all he did was flip inside out. He is still a creation, today, which has the potential to sin and has fallen into sin. So we just went from positive to negative. We flipped inside out. We turned inside out. That's what happened. That is the immature creation, a creation that has a potential to sin, but is without sin. That is the definition of the imputed anointing.
Getting back to your comment, that is the definition of the imputed anointing, to be capable of sin, but without sin. You see, the man was capable of sin. The man, Christ Jesus, at the beginning of time, was capable of sin, but without sin and that was why the Scripture says, And God looked at all that He had made and it was good. It was not perfect, but it was good. But you see, the man Jesus of Nazareth, He was not just good. He was and is prefect. The word perfect means complete. The man Jesus of Nazareth, who was Christ, was perfected. He was completed. He was made in such a condition that He became incapable of sin. The immature Christ Jesus was without sin, but capable of it. The mature Christ Jesus is incapable of sin. So the early creation, the immature Christ Jesus is good, but the mature Christ Jesus, is perfect or complete. The immature Christ Jesus is good, but incomplete and the mature Christ Jesus is perfect and good and complete and incapable of sin.
COMMENT: So Jesus always existed then?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, in spirit form. He's the son.
COMMENT: In my mind, Christ always existed, but Jesus did not always exist. I didn't think He existed until God came in the flesh and then He was called Jesus.
PASTOR VITALE: Oh, I see what you're saying. Well, that's true. I guess I answered too quickly. Jesus is the name of the man. Are you talking about Jesus of Nazareth or are you talking about the son? The son always existed.
COMMENT: I'm talking about the name Jesus. I didn't know the name Jesus existed before the man Jesus of Nazareth.
PASTOR VITALE: Well, it means Joshua. Jesus is the Greek rendition of the Hebrew name Joshua. That's all that it is. Jesus is just a name, Joshua. Okay?
COMMENT: But for you to say that Christ Jesus existed at the beginning of time is telling me that throughout the ages there has been a Jesus that has existed.
PASTOR VITALE: Oh, I really don't know. I may not have it exact. That's a technical question that I'm not prepared to answer because it may be true or it may not be true. I'm just trying to get through this thing with all these technicalities.
But I will say this to you, that there was a man formed at the beginning of time. There was a spiritual man formed who was a combination of the earth and Jehovah and the female spirit that was breathed into the earth and a man was formed out of that and his name was not Adam. Adam is just the name of the earth. So there was a man formed and right now it looks like his name was Christ Jesus, but I could find out next week it was a different name. So right now I'm calling him, immature Christ. There may be another name for him and I just don't know what it is. But he was the creation which had the potential to sin, but had not yet sinned and was good. The man Jesus of Nazareth, who was Christ, is the perfected man, who was not only good, but is incapable of sin. He's completed. What completed Him? What's the major difference between the creation which fell and the man Jesus of Nazareth? I'll show you what that difference is as I understand it at this time. God help me.
This is really splitting hairs. I have to admit that. As I understand it at this time, this is the difference. At the beginning of time there was one tree. I don't believe the King James Translators believe the Hebrew. There was one tree, singular, in the garden. The name of the tree was the tree of life. I hope you realize it didn't look like this picture on the board. It was a spiritual tree, brethren. The Lion of the Tribe of Judah is not golden with a big mane of hair and big teeth. He is a spirit. So we have the tree of life at the beginning of time. I'm not against the King James translators, but if they told you something that's wrong, I have to tell you it's wrong. I'm not against them. They did a good job and there's good things in that Bible, but this is an inaccurate translation that says that the tree was in the midst of the garden. In the Hebrew it says that there was something in the midst of the tree. Now what was in the midst of the tree is the partial tree. We're told in the Hebrew, there was a partial tree in the midst of the whole tree and the name of the partial tree is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The whole tree is called the tree of life. The tree of life can live without the partial tree, but the partial tree can't live without the whole tree. The tree of life is the positive charge in the creation and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is the negative charge of the creation. God said that He made a creation which is both positive and negative.
I didn't read that in the Bible, Pastor VItale. No, it says He made them male and He made them female. The male gives and the female receives. The positive gives and negative receives. It has nothing whatsoever to do with human men and women. It's a principle. The Lord made them male and female, positive and negative, strong and weak, hard and soft. That's in the Hebrew Lexicon. The hard part of the creation is spirit and the soft part of the creation is earth. Spirit is likened unto metal, brethren. If you take a metal ring and you put a bunch in the soft earth out there, the earth does not determine the form of the metal. The metal determines the form of the imprint in the earth. The soft part is the earth and the hard part is the spirit and the spirit forms the earth. Let me tell you something. When the mind of Christ comes up against somebody's carnal mind, the mind of Christ doesn't change. You, whose mind is made out of clay, you change. Your carnal mind is made out of the earth. When you come up against the gold of Christ, you change. Christ doesn't change. So what was my point? (Laughter) What was my point? Oh, I know what we were talking about. We were talking about the difference between the creation at the beginning of time, which was good, which was without sin, but capable of sin and the creation which is in the image of Jesus of Nazareth, who was Christ, which is without sin and incapable of sin.
So we see at the beginning of time that there was a tree in the garden and in the midst of the tree was a partial tree. That was in the midst of the tree of life, just as a peach pit is in the midst of a piece of fruit. But "but" this tree of life was not permanently joined. (At the drawing board) Remember we had an altar up here. Eve, Jehovah, Christ Jesus, and they were all in a sack, when the Scripture says God breathed the breath of life into the man. What the Hebrew says is that God breathed the breath of life into the sack. He doesn't call it a man. He calls it the sack that was able to breathe. These three strands of the cord were not fused together. It's like you're making a dress and you lay out all the pieces of the dress on the table. You might even put a basting stitch in, but they weren't sewn on the machine yet. One strong wind and the whole dress blows apart. The creation was good. It was in order. It looked good, but it hadn't been machine stitched yet. It was capable of blowing apart. The dress is the best example. You see, in due season, Jesus is going to reverse our condition and we'll be back in this spiritual condition, the tree of life. The mind of Christ will be our mind and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil will be in the midst of us. Brethren, this will be our condition once again. This is full stature. This is full stature.
So you see, brethren, that it is not until the glorification that you are permanently altered into a condition where you can never sin. It's not likely that we'll fall down once we attain to full stature because we'll have dominion over evil plus the experience of knowing what it's like before. Brethren, I don't know about you, but when I get lifted up out of hell, it's going to be awfully hard to get me to go back, with any kind of knowledge at all of what's happening to me. So we're going back to the condition that Adam was in, in the garden. We're going from a negative mind to a positive mind. We're going from sin to sinlessness, but still with the potential to sin. Why? Because this tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the tree in the midst, the partial tree, is not yet backstitched to the tree of life. How are we going to get these two trees joined? Well we're told in the Book of Revelation that in the glorification, there will be a fusion, a fusion of the parts of the creation that will produce much more power than was revealed when the son separated from the Father. That was atomic fission. There was great heat and the result of it or one of the results of it was that the atoms of the universe were created and out of those atoms, the Father formed the creation. But now we're expecting a fusion of the parts of the creation, a backstitching of the garment. It is going to be caused by great heat.
We're told by the apostle Peter that the elements will melt. Brethren, there is so much heat coming down on this tree that you're no longer going to be able to see the difference between the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They're being cooked, brethren, and they're becoming one completed tree and you won't be able to tell the difference between the male and the female. You won't be able to tell who's in the midst and who's on the outside and you won't be able to separate them anymore than you can pick up a cake and separate the butter and the sugar and the flour. Why? Because the butter and the sugar and the flour that you mix together to make a cake are not really mixed together. They're mingled together. Listen brethren, if I picked up this cup and I put a red marble and a yellow marble and a green marble in here, I've mixed these marbles in here, but they're still marbles. Or even better yet, if I put some batter for a cake in here and I throw raisins in the batter, I have mixed the raisins with the batter. You can go in and pick out the raisins and put them under cold water. Even if the cake is cooked, you could pull the raisins out and wash them off and you could say this is a raisin. It's still a raisin.
That raisin is mixed with the cake, but the sugar and the eggs and the flour, they're not mixed; they're mingled. They're so completely combined that a new product exists. There's no way to separate the eggs from the sugar or from the flour. That's what's happening to the creation. These two, the tree and the partial tree in the midst are going to come under such an application of heat. It's called the lake of fire, brethren. We're going to be melted and we're no longer going to be earth and spirit, a two sided creation. The earth and the spirit are going to be so mingled that they will be a new product. We won't be earth, neither will we be spirit. We won't be soul, neither will we be spirit. But we're told in the Book of Revelation, Jesus is the beginning of a whole new creature called the creation of God. We're going to be a new substance and we will be so mingled that it will be impossible for the tree of the knowledge of good and evil to separate from the tree of life and forever, the Scripture says, we shall be with the Lord. We shall have been perfected and converted into a condition whereby we are now incapable of sin.
What is sin? Sin is the falling out of agreement, of the tree in the midst with the master tree. It will be impossible to fall out of agreement with our master because we shall have become one. So we see that the creation at the beginning of time was incomplete. It was incomplete. It was the beginning stages of the creation and it was good, but it wasn't completed. Before it could be completed, we had a problem, but Jesus is correcting the problem and completing us and we shall never die again, brethren. You see, it is given unto a man once to die, and then the judgment and the casting into the lake of fire, which will raise us from the dead in a new form, in which we are incapable of sin. You're running away from the lake of fire. Don't run away from the lake of fire. Jesus wants to convert you into a form where you'll never fall again, where you can rest from your labor of keeping sin down under your feet. I'm not going to do it today, man. No biting your fingernails, pacing the floor, doing whatever you're doing, I'm not going to do it, I'm not going to do it. You're not going to ever have to go through that again, because you will have been converted into a new creature in which sin is impossible.
I don't think this message has ever come forth as clear as it has come forth right now. So all you Christians out there, preaching that we're already in the image of God and that we're perfect, stop making a fool of yourself and showing the whole world that you don't know what you're talking about. Do you have a question?
COMMENT: At the beginning of time then, there was a form of a negative and a positive and they were separated, right? Then at the end, at the perfection time, they will be joined together as one, the negative and the positive.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, they will be completely melted into each other. Yes, there will be no separation, no potential for separation.
COMMENT: At the beginning, were they ever together?
PASTOR VITALE: They were together, but capable of being separated. They co-existed with the positive ruling and then they separated. When the positive separated from the negative, the negative was stronger. When we're brought back together again, positive and negative will never separate.
We are raised from the dead, to go on with your question....At the beginning, the creation was positive and negative with the positive ruling. The positive and negative were capable of being separated. When we died we turned inside out, and we were and are still positive and negative with the negative ruling, but when the Lord restores us we are temporarily going back to being positive and negative with the positive ruling. That's full stature, but then there is another step called glorification which will meld us together so completely that you won't be able to tell the difference between positive and negative and will never be able to separate again. And that means that we will be....to answer your question, we were together positive and negative at the beginning, but in the restoration we will be together more completely or more perfectly so that we will be incapable of being separated.
COMMENT: That sounds like we will not have any memory of evil at all. Is that true?
PASTOR VITALE: I don't know. Memory of it, I don't know.
COMMENT: What is the experience of being able to look at a memory and choose something else, is that right.
PASTOR VITALE: Well, I think you went beyond memory. Memory is just a knowledge of and choice is another word.
COMMENT: Experience means I have something to look at that I already went through in the past, right? So are we always going to have that, and have the experience in our memory or that going to be wiped out also, and we are going to go into something totally different?
PASTOR VITALE: That's a good question. When I answered you off the top of my head, and I said I didn't know, a Scripture did come into my mind. So it sounds like the Lord to me, and the Scripture that came into my mind was in Genesis 4or 5 where God, must be Genesis 4, is driving Adam out of the garden, and He says, the man has become as one of us, possessing a knowledge of good and evil. OK, so that means Jehovah says that He has a knowledge of good and evil. So that means that when we become glorified and one with Jehovah, pure spirit, we will have a knowledge of good and evil, but I believe what the Lord is saying to me is this. I've been preaching it here, if you can remember, that there is a difference between having a knowledge of something in your soul and having a knowledge of it in your spirit. To have a knowledge of evil in your soul means to experience it in your emotions, and that is sin. It will kill you.
It is OK to have a knowledge of it in the spirit which is likened to having natural eyes. I could look at Joseph, and I say, well I know this man, I don't know what it is like to be a man. I really don't know what a man feels like in many areas, but he's a man. I know that he's a man, but I haven't experienced being a man. So there is a knowledge of a spiritual perception of evil. Exactly what the difference is between perceiving evil with the spirit and experiencing evil.... the only thing I can tell you right now is that experiencing it is sin and kills you, and having some knowledge of it that you can recognize it without experiencing it is a different experience which is acceptable to God. That's all I can give you right now. So, I believe we will have a knowledge of it, a spiritual knowledge of it.
COMMENT: I was going to ask what stage that is, but I believe it is the glorified stage?
PASTOR VITALE: What stage is that?
COMMENT: The stage you were just talking about.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, we are talking about glorification.
Let me tell you this, we only got through Point 1 I think. Another issue that I wanted to review for you today was this understanding of the crucifixion of Christ which the Lord brought forth in Nigeria so I'm going to write it down here. I would like to start with that because we found out that what the crucifixion of Christ is. If you recall, our condition right now is that Eve who is the wife of Christ, you know when you marry a man you take his name. If you marry a man named Smith, your name becomes Smith too. You are the wife of Smith. Eve, the wife of Christ, she's Christ also. But she is the female Christ. She is not as strong as the male Christ who is Christ Jesus. So Eve is Christ, and she is joined to Jehovah, and the mind or the man born of the union is Christ Jesus. I guess I did that wrong, sorry.
Right now, Christ, God's wife Eve, the human spirit, is a part of the serpentine altar....she is married to the Serpent, and they have produced the female child. Anybody?
COMMENT: The Devil.
PASTOR VITALE: OK, have to make some changes here. Their offspring is the female mind, the Devil, and we are finding out that what the term "the crucifixion of Christ" means is that the Lord Jesus Christ is coming into this serpentine altar and piercing through, and the one defending the serpentine altar is the Devil, and the Lord Jesus Christ is piercing through the wall of their city and reaching right for Eve and penetrating Eve, crucifying Eve; therefore, joining Himself to her. The glorified Lord Jesus Christ, joining Himself to the Christ in the midst of the serpentine altar, and that this crucifixion is not a destruction, but a strengthening of her. So we will pick up right there. When we come back I will just make myself a note, crucifixion of Christ to be continued.
Praise the Lord, brethren. Here we are back again. I'm going to wake up one morning with the microphone growing out of my mouth. I've been teasing my father about that for years. I've never, ever seen him without a cigar in his mouth so I wonder if he was born that way.
What we are doing today is reviewing some of the revelation which has come down recently. There has been a lot of new revelation coming down, and it has come down so fast that I think I've either lost a few of you, I've probably lost a few of you, or some of you might have snatches of it. So for those of you who are super spiritual and have caught it, I would like to enforce it for you, and for those who have not caught it I would like you to catch it. So we are going over it. A lot has come down. That was supposed to be funny, but nobody was laughing.
No matter has any power over how much of this you catch or how much of this you cannot catch. You are like fertile ground, and this word rains on you, and as much as your ground can absorb, that's what you absorb, and what you cannot absorb drains off of you. It is the work of the Lord Jesus Christ to reproduce Himself in your soul. So, everybody does the best they can and keep your eyes on yourself and off of everybody else, and may Christ be increased in all of you.
The Lord just reminded me that I was supposed to pray for you all this morning, and I forgot to do it. Brethren, I am of the opinion that something so heavy is coming down out of the spiritual world in this hour, something tremendous is happening. Heavy judgment is falling. Let me remind you that the judgments of God are merciful, and they are directly associated with spiritual growth. You will not grow spiritually without judgment or exposure and correction of your sin. It just simply cannot be. As you die to your sin, you are raised in the newness of the life of Christ. As you die to the death of your wicked, insane, fallen mind you are rising in the life of the Mind of Christ which is being given to you as a gift.
You do the best you can do, and the Lord Jesus Christ does the rest. If the best you can do is 5%, you've got 95% of Him. If the best you can do is 95%, you've got 5% of Him. So you 95%, don't look at the guy that can only do 5%, and tell me it is not fair because it is not fair. And if you don't like it, it is tough. God never said He was fair. He said, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and who are you to tell me what to do. So, let's not hear that word in this ministry. He's not fair, and neither am I. He's God, and I'm His servant.
So I would like to pray for you all tonight. We are living in an awesome time, and I believe that an awesome move of the spirit of God has already begun, only it is hard to recognize with carnal eyes. The more spiritual you are, the more likely you are to see it. If you are not seeing it, that's OK too, but I am here to tell you about it because it is not particularly good to be surprised. Jesus said, I come as a thief to those who can't see me coming. What does that mean? How does a thief come?
One day, one morning, one night you open your eyes and someone's got a gun in your face saying, give me your money. But if you had eyes, you could have seen him coming around the corner, you could have seen him stalking you down the street. Jesus is as bold as brass and as obvious as the nose on your face to the people who could see Him. But to the people who are blind to spiritual things, people who are in spiritual darkness, people who are in ignorance, whatever your problem is, if you can't see Him, He's coming to you as a thief, but He's coming. And He's coming with a recompense in His hand. He's coming to clean you so that He can save your life because you cannot enter into the Kingdom dirty. You won't get in, and He wants you in. So, he's cleaning you. So let me pray for you please.
Father, in the name of Jesus, I bless this group. I bless everybody here. I bless everyone who's joined to us in the spirit who is not here. As your leader that God has ordained over you, I have authority to forgive sins. I forgive all of your sins, and I rebuke your carnal minds, and I pronounce death upon them. I say, may they dry up and wither and may Christ be formed in you, and may He arise in great power and newness of life, and may everyone of you enter into the Kingdom with the least painful judgment that can be possible without hindering God's work in your life because the most important thing is that you enter into the Kingdom, and whatever pain is necessary must be, but I pray for an easy labor for all of you. I pray for knowledge and wisdom and understanding and a birth that leaves you in good health and strong with a healthy manchild which will save your life in child bearing.
I bless you all. I pray that the Lord teaches you how to love on another and how to submit to one another because the Scripture says that this is the sign that you are the disciples of God, that you should love one another. Don't show me your car, don't show me a degree from Bible school, don't show me your Dove pin, I don't care how much revelation you have, I don't care if you speak in tongues or prophesy or if you have written a book. Show me how you love one another, and forgive one another, and work out your problems so that God should be glorified in you.
I pray that God brings you into that reality. For, as it says in another place, if you have every gift available to man, every spiritual gift, and you have not love, you are nothing but an empty sound. So love one another, brethren, that God should be glorified in you and completed in you, and that you should live and prosper and be well and not die, that you should be a glory unto His name. Hallelujah.
So, we are reviewing some of the new revelation that has come down, and let me repeat what I told you this morning. We are continuing this message. We are on the third tape. I'm not making a new message out of this, but I would like to repeat what I told you this morning. For all of you Pharisees out there, I know that there is no such thing as new revelation, and I know that the truth of God has always existed, exists now, and always shall exist, but it may not be new for God, and it may not be new for you because maybe you are smarter than me, maybe you are more spiritual than me, but it is new for me because the consciousness that I am in, in this hour, and the degree of memory, knowledge, and the personality that I'm moving in is incomplete. I do not have a full knowledge of all the truth of God. So, this is new revelation for me, and that's why I call it new.
Wasn't it John who said, I give you a new commandment. It is not really a new commandment. It is really an old commandment, but for you it is new. I give you new revelation. It is not really new revelation, but for you it is new so I call it new. That should teach all you Pharisees out there. Got that straight everybody?
So, we had some very interesting teaching this morning about the Garden, and about the Devil, and I have a list of 6 or 7 points that I had hoped to touch on, and they seem to be following naturally as the Lord was bringing forth the message. We left off with the concept of the crucifixion of Christ, and as I have told you here, this is a living, breathing, evolving, maturing ministry. There is an unfolding revelation coming forth here. It is imperfect, it is incomplete. That means that you must learn to roll with the punches, to go with the flow, and to be able to tolerate, without exploding, me tell you that what I told you three years ago or what I told you last month was not exactly accurate. The Lord has given me a new refinement on it, and this is my understanding of it now. You need to be mature enough to do that.
If you are idolizing me, and if you would like to believe everything that I tell you is written in stone, because that gives you peace of mind, you need to ask the Lord to help you to grow up because that is immaturity. I'm not God, I'm just His mouthpiece, and I'm imperfect, and I'm learning just like you are. It is the same thing as learning physics in Junior High. When you get to High School you take physics also, and they teach it a little deeper, and when you get to College, you take physics, and they teach it a little deeper, and when you go for your Master's, you take physics, and they teach it a lot deeper, and it is all physics.
As your ability to understand increases, as my ability to understand increases, God gives us deeper and deeper levels of spiritual truth. If you can't go with the flow, you need prayer. Don't be embarrassed, but come and ask me for prayer. You have to be able to grow, brethren; otherwise, you are a rigid person. If you can't grow, that makes you a rigid person. What is the opposite of rigid? Flexible.
You have to be able to bend, you see. This piece of paper is flexible. This marker is rigid, can't bend, see. So the Spirit of God is flexible, and if you are rigid and He bends and you can't bend, He is going to turn, and you are going to go off into the ditch. So if you have any reason to believe that you are rigid, don't get mad at me. Ask the Lord to make you flexible. All things are possible in Christ. There is no reason to get your nose out of joint. There is no reason to be upset, there is no reason to be envious, no rational reason, because all things are possible with Christ.
There is never a shortage of anything that comes out of God. Everything He's giving your friend or your brother or your sister, He has enough for you. If you are not getting the same amount, it is not because there is a shortage. So, you have to find out why you are not getting the same amount. Usually, the reason is that you are two different people, you have two different requirements, you have two different capacities, you have two different needs, you have two different levels of sin, but that doesn't mean that you can't be brought up to where that other person is if you are willing to make whatever changes the Lord requires of you. You have to find out what you have to do, and then you may not even have everything that you ask for.
There was a time that I really would have liked to have played a musical instrument, and the Lord pretty much told me "no," at this time, anyway. Why? Because I am a human being with human limits. There is only 24 hours in a day, and the Lord wanted me to teach. Can't do everything. So sometimes you don't get what you ask for, but it doesn't mean God doesn't love you.
One thing He will do for you, I promise you as you move on with Him, is use you to your max. He will enable you to be the fullest creative expression of Him that you are capable of. He will not leave one fraction of an ounce of your creative ability unused, but it is His choice how He uses your creative ability. But you will have the greatest opportunity to express your creative ability in Christ than you could ever have by making a career for yourself in this world, but it is not overnight. He must develop you, and you must yield to Him. And you will be happy some day, brethren.
You may not believe it now, but some day you will be happy if you let Him have His way with you. If you insist on doing it your own way, you may be happy, but you may never be happy. But if you yield to the Lord, I promise you that, in due season, you shall be happy. I don't know how long it will take. Some people are more stubborn than others. Some people need to be beaten more than others, but, eventually, if you stay with the Lord and if He stays with you, you will find happiness, contentment, peace, and joy and love and acceptance and good sweet fellowship, and intimacy in the love of God, in Him.
So, we were speaking about the crucifixion of Christ. Now, this term has puzzled me for a long time, and the revelation that I had of this term, which I have preached to you, up until recently is this. I had a revelation that the crucifixion of Christ is not speaking about the crucifixion of the man, Jesus, who was Christ, but it is speaking about the crucifixion of the mind of Christ. How can I say that? I can say that because, does anybody know how I can say that? That the crucifixion of Christ as it appears in the Scripture, that expression "the crucifixion of Christ" is not speaking about the man Jesus.
Anybody know the Scripture I base that on? Paul said, I am crucified with Christ; nevertheless, I live. I have died, but I live by the life of the Son of God. Paul said, I am crucified to Christ, that I didn't die. He also said, I'm crucified to the world. So there has to be something more to this crucifixion than having your physical body nailed to a cross.
On the other hand, we did a whole series called Christ in which we found out a mystery in the King James translation that, when the article, when the definite article "the" appears before the word Christ, the Scripture is referring to the man Jesus who was Christ, whose mind was Christ. But when the word "Christ" appears without the article, the Scripture is speaking about the mind which was in the man Jesus. There is only one problem. The King James translators have no consistency whatsoever, and if they had any method to their choice of when or why they put the article before the word Christ I haven't been able to figure it out.
So you have to look in the Greek to find out whether or not the definite article "the" appears before the Christ in every incident because there are many, many incidents where the King James says "Christ," and it is "the Christ," or vice versa. So if you want to find out if the King James translation is speaking about the man Jesus who was limited to, I believe, 33 years of an existence in His flesh or 33 ½ years, whether the Scripture was speaking about Him or whether the Scripture was speaking about the eternal Christ, the Son of the Living God, which existed from the beginning and exists in a condition of death in this hour, this eternal Christ that has already been resurrected from the dead in the man Jesus of Nazareth and is about to be resurrected from the dead in all of humanity, if you are speaking about the eternal Christ which far transcends the man Jesus, and you are talking about the crucifixion of that, then you have to say to yourself who crucified Him?
What I have been preaching to you here is that there were two minds that were crucified. There was a carnal mind and a Mind of Christ, and I found another Scripture that says, of the twain He made one New Man. Of the twain, He made one New Man. Of the twain what? Twain means two. Of the two minds, He made one New Man. Of the Mind of Christ and of the carnal mind, He made one New Man, the creation of God.
So, I've been preaching here that the crucifixion of Christ is the joining of the Mind of Christ to the carnal mind, that the Mind of Christ entered into the carnal mind while the man Jesus was hanging on the cross being physically crucified. The Mind of Christ entered into the carnal mind, overlaid it, and the two became one. We will say this moved over here, and the two minds became one mind, the creation of God, and I've been teaching you that this is a great mystery, that the Scripture says, the crucifixion of Christ, but Christ didn't die. It was the carnal mind that died. Christ was crucified, but it was the carnal mind that died because you can't kill Christ.
It was the Christ mind that was nailed to the carnal mind, but the carnal mind died, because when you hear the word "crucifixion," it sounds to me like the one crucified is the one that died. So that's how I've been dealing with this problem for the last year or so saying, well I know the crucifixion of Christ, that phrase, the crucifixion of Christ, is not talking about the crucifixion of the man Jesus. Why? Because of what Paul said? That he was crucified with Christ, yet, nevertheless, he lives. So that was how....I knew something was wrong, and it was bothering me, and that was how I got around it, saying, well it is just a great mystery. The Scripture says the crucifixion of Christ, but it really means the death of the carnal mind, and the joining of the two minds into one glorified mind.
Well, the Lord has shown me that, that is not correct. Yet, it is not so much in error as just a shade of not understanding. So, let me show you what God showed me, and most of the corrections that I'm going to make here, you will find it is not really that I taught you error, it is just that the Lord has shown it to us, shown it to me, a shade deeper, a shade deeper. And this is what He has shown me.
Let me start with this. Let me put it to you this way. Those of us who have been studying here for a while know that there was a mind which was Christ in the garden which died at the beginning of time. He died, and this event is called the fall. So, we see a great mystery here that the Lord brought forth His Christ in the creation, Adam, at the beginning of time, and that, that Christ was the mind of the creation which made the soul a living soul. That mind was killed and replace by the carnal mind which leaves us now with a fallen, dead soul.
This great mystery is that the Lord still calls the dead....there is a dead Christ, there is a skeleton, there is a remain, there is a residue of the Christ which died, and that residue of the Christ which died is now mingled with, and made one with, the carnal mind which is the mind of the dead creation. The name of that residue of the Living Christ, that skeleton, what's the name? The human spirit. The human spirit is what remained when the Christ died, and it is the human spirit which is mingled now with the carnal mind. And we see that the skeleton of the dead Christ is now joined with Satan and the carnal mind, and yet, despite this fact, God still calls the human spirit His Christ.
She was in a masculine form, in that she was a three-fold cord. I will just review from this morning. We have the human spirit, which was joined to Jehovah at the beginning of time. The human spirit was joined to Jehovah and had brought forth the man, Christ Jesus. When the man, Christ Jesus, was killed, a division was made between the human spirit and Jehovah which left the human spirit isolated and the only remaining manifestation of this three-fold cord. So, we see the human spirit which is one strand of this three-fold cord is now all that can legitimately call herself Christ.
The three-fold cord, the man, Christ Jesus, He is male, a full grown male. He is the Son of the Living God, the man, Christ Jesus, the only mediator between God and man. The human spirit is that breath which the Father breathed into the creation which became the female seed. So, by herself, she is female, but when she is joined to Jehovah and has borne the manchild, Christ Jesus, in the condition of this three-fold cord she is part of a male mind. And, for all intents and purposes, she is male.
When the mind in the soul is male, the soul is a man. When the mind in the soul is female, the whole soul is female. So, we see that when this three-fold cord broke up Christ Jesus dissolved, Jehovah separated from the human spirit, and the human spirit was the residue or the skeleton of this three-fold cord. The Lord still calls her Christ. Why? Because, technically speaking, she is now an ovum, a female ovum, which has the potential to produce the Son. At such time as Jehovah would once again join with her, she has the potential to once again produce the man, Christ Jesus, and, in fact, this has already happened in the man, Jesus of Nazareth.
So, this is the same thing as the Lord or a man or a husband going to a woman and looking at her ovaries and saying, my Son is in there. It is like, when the Lord looked at Abraham and said, leave I pay tithes, when he was still in the loins of Abraham. If you can hear it. The human spirit is not complete, but the end of her....you see, she is almost worthless in this condition, but, in her completed state, after she joins with Jehovah or in this hour the Lord Jesus Christ and bears the Son and all three become one, for all intents and purposes she will not be Christ alone, but she will be Christ Jesus. Just a part of the completed male mind.
So, when God looks at the human spirit, even though at this hour she died and is separated from Jehovah and Christ Jesus, He looks at her not in her fallen, dead, weak, beggarly condition, but He looks at her in her completed state. Why? Because He knows He has the power to complete her. So God calls her Christ even though she is in a female condition of weakness because of her potential. It is the same principle as the Lord calling all of us "saints." Now, we are not saintly, and we are not holy, and we are not pure. From the minute He gives us His life and begins to bring forth His Son in us, He calls us His saints. He calls us His armies. Why? Because the Lord calls into being things which do not yet exist.
He said to Elijah, go appoint Hazael King of Syria. That didn't happen until about 20 years later. God said Hazael was King of Syria. He appointed Jehu to....I think he became King of Israel if I'm not mistaken, Jehu. When God said it, it is. So He says the human spirit, she is My Christ, happens to be dead right now, in a female form, but she is Christ. In a mature male form, she is Christ Jesus, and that is why we have this variation of the names in the Scriptures.
So, Christ alone is the human spirit, and here is a great mystery. All this you hear about Christ in the New Age movement. All this that you hear about Christ in the New Age movement, it is not the Lord Jesus Christ, neither is it Christ Jesus, it is the Christ consciousness. Who are they worshiping, brethren, these people, Christians, whatever they call themselves, who worship Christ, but they won't say Christ Jesus, and they won't say the Lord Jesus Christ? Who are they worshiping?
They are worshiping the human spirit, who in this hour is joined to whom? Actually, we found out it is the Serpent. She is joined to the Serpent in this hour, and the offspring of Eve and the Serpent is the Devil. The Devil is a woman. The offspring of the human spirit and the Serpent is the woman whose name is the Devil, and the woman has a conscious and an unconscious mind. And her unconscious mind is called Satan, and her conscious mind is called the carnal mind. Whose unconscious and conscious mind? The woman whose name is the Devil, who is the offspring of the human spirit and the Serpent.
So, we see that when we hear Newagers and other religions worshiping Christ alone, they are worshiping the human spirit which is not joined to Jehovah who, in this hour, is in the form of the Lord Jesus Christ or Christ Jesus. It is a great mystery. You have to find out who you are worshiping, brethren. You have to know who people are talking about. This is a very important revelation because people are ignorant. So in this hour, to worship Christ alone is the same thing as worshiping the Devil. Never heard that before, huh?
So, we see that the crucifixion of Christ, listen to it now, is not the crucifixion of the Mind of Christ, nor is it the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ, nor are we speaking about the crucifixion of the Lord of Glory, nor are we speaking about the crucifixion of Christ Jesus. There is a Scripture which says, had they only known they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory. That's speaking about Jesus. When Paul is saying, I'm crucified to Christ, he is talking about his....I think that word "I'm crucified to Christ," he is speaking about his human spirit being crucified by or being penetrated by the Lord Jesus Christ.
I'm going to make this clearer. Let me show it to you with this circle. This is the way we have been drawing the carnal mind. In this hour, Christ is married to the Serpent. So, Christ, also known as Eve. Did you get it? Christ alone, we are not talking about Christ Jesus now. Christ, also known as Eve, is married to the Serpent, and they have a child called the Devil whose mind is the carnal mind. The Lord Jesus Christ, in this hour, what is His name? In this hour, He is in the form of the Holy Spirit. The Lord Jesus Christ is in the midst of the church in this hour, the glorified Lord Jesus Christ in the form of the Holy Spirit, He was crucified, He was raised from the dead, He was resurrected, and, in this hour, is pouring out of His glorified spirit upon all of humanity in the form of the Holy Spirit.
So the Holy Spirit is coming and penetrating the carnal mind. Now, I've taught you this before. I'm just saying it a little differently now. I've taught you all this before. The Holy Spirit is coming and penetrating the carnal mind of man. Does anybody know that I haven't been teaching you that? I've been teaching you for a couple of years that the Holy Spirit is coming, penetrating the carnal mind of man and going right for Eve because she is the harlot.
She is the girl who can't say "no," and the Holy Spirit is committing legal adultery. He's going right in and committing adultery with Eve right in the midst of her ungodly marital union to the Serpent and the Devil, and He's fertilizing her. And Eve now has two husbands and two offspring. Eve is engaged in an on-going relationship with the Serpent and the Devil, and she is also engaged in an on-going relationship with the Holy Spirit. And if you are blessed, she is pregnant with His Son.
So, in the midst of all this she has a second offspring whose name is Christ Jesus coming forth in the midst of her spiritual being. She has the manchild growing within her spiritual being as well as the Devil and the carnal mind growing within her spiritual being. So if we are talking about crucifixion being a penetration, and crucifixion is a penetration. Right? We know Jesus was crucified. His physical body was nailed with nails. He was penetrated. The crucifixion of Christ, brethren, is the penetration of the Holy Spirit, the crucifixion of Christ. Not of Christ Jesus, not of the Lord Jesus Christ, but of the human spirit which is the dead Christ. It is the penetration of the dead Christ. Can you hear this?
Now what I've been telling you all along is that the crucifixion of Christ is the joining of the Mind of Christ to the carnal mind which joining does not kill Christ, but which joining kills the carnal mind. That's what I've been teaching you. Right now, I give it to you in greater detail.
The crucifixion of Christ is specifically the penetration of the dead Christ which produces the manchild, Christ Jesus, who will eventually kill the carnal mind, and of the twain He will make one New Man. Have I lost all of you? I am pretty much saying the same thing. I just didn't have the details of how it happned.
Father, I just pray that you help me to show it to them. If anybody doesn't understand what I was preaching before, that the crucifixion of Christ was the joining of Christ to the carnal mind, which joining killed the carnal mind, and not Christ. Is everybody OK with that? OK. I used to preach that the crucifixion of Christ was the union of the two minds because the Scripture says, of the two minds Jesus made one new mind. So, therefore, the crucifixion of Christ could not possibly have killed Christ. It has to kill the carnal mind.
Where I was off was that I was thinking that the crucifixion of Christ was the crucifixion of the Mind of Christ, but the Scripture doesn't say that it is the crucifixion of the Mind of Christ. It says that the crucifixion of Christ, the penetration of Christ. Christ, the human spirit. Not Christ Jesus, not the Lord Jesus Christ, but the penetration of the human spirit, Christ. The penetration of the human spirit, Christ alone, and the result of the penetration of the human spirit is that the man, Christ Jesus, is formed in which is the Mind of Christ. And the Scripture still stands of the two minds, the Mind of Christ and of the carnal mind, Jesus made one new mind. The two minds are eventually joined.
Well, I think I am up against a stone wall. I don't know what to do. I will just preach it from time to time as the Lord gives it to me, but let me tell you this that when I investigated this, and I looked up the word crucifixion, I think I even looked it up in Webster's, and much to my surprise I found out that there is a definition of the crucifixion which means that it does not mean death. It does not mean destruction.
As a matter of fact, the first definition of the word crucifixion in the dictionary means to strengthen, to shore up, as if you have a fence or a piece of land that's falling down, and you go in with wooden stakes, almost like railroad ties are used, to shore up a slipping landscape. Does anyone not know what I'm talking about? Where you stick in wooden stakes to stop the land from eroding. That's a definition of the word crucifixion, to strengthen through penetration. To strengthen through penetration, to add strength by putting sticks in something to make it stronger. Not necessarily to kill it, but to strengthen it.
So, the mystery has now been cleared up in my mind. To me, the crucifixion of Christ meant the killing of Christ, and I could not understand it because you can't kill the Mind of Christ. When the Mind of Christ collides with the carnal mind, I know the carnal mind died because Paul said so. So it has been on my mind for a long time that something was wrong with that, that I could not put my finger on.
I guess I should have started with this. Now, the Lord tells me that there is another definition of the word crucifixion that doesn't mean to kill, but it means to strengthen, to shore up, and to make whole, to give strength to. So we see that the Holy Spirit is penetrating the carnal mind and crucifying Eve. The Holy Spirit is the stick. He is the Tree or at least the seed for the Tree of Life which is joining Himself unto the human spirit, Christ alone, not Christ Jesus, not the Lord Jesus Christ, but Christ alone.
So we now see that Christ alone is not being killed by the Holy Spirit, but is being joined to the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is really the Lord Jesus Christ, and so what do we see happening here. We see an altar being formed. The Lord Jesus Christ joining to the human spirit, strengthening her, and how is the Holy Spirit strengthening her? He's cleaving Himself unto her, fusing Himself to her, and when that happens, when the Lord Jesus Christ joins to the Holy Spirit, what happens to the....when the Lord Jesus Christ joins to the human spirit, what happens to her? She is a harlot. This woman conceives every time, and she is about to bear who? Christ Jesus, the warrior in the family of Christ.
We have a father in the family of Christ, and a mother in the family of Christ, and we have a warrior Son in the family of Christ. So when the Lord Jesus Christ crucifies Christ, an altar is formed of the family of Christ which is in heaven, and the warrior Son of God appears. Hallelujah. And He kills the carnal mind who is the offspring of the Serpent and Eve, the Christ, and the result of the death of the carnal mind is the freeing up or the release of the Lord's Christ who was in bondage to the Devil and the Serpent.
How is she being freed from the Serpent and the Devil? She is being freed in two processes. The first one is the separation of the soul from the spirit. What does that mean? The separation of the soul from the spirit? OK, the person in the spirit role is the Serpent. The Serpent is really soul, but he's acting like a spirit. So we see the one in the soul role is the Devil. So we see the first separation is Eve, joined to the Serpent, and she is being separated from the Devil. The death of the Devil. Who is killing the Devil? Christ Jesus is killing the Devil. That's the separation of the soul from the spirit.
The second step is the separation of the joints from the marrow. What is the joints? Brethren, the marrow is that which runs through the center of the bone. The joints is that part of the bone that's hooked up by joints. So what we are really saying in the separation of the joints from the marrow is the separation of Eve, who is the richness of the bone, from the Serpents, the joints.
So, the first separation is Eve, still joined to the Serpent, from the Devil, and the second separation is Eve from the Serpent, and then Eve is completely freed from her serpentine captors, and the fullness of the human spirit whose name is Christ. She is the female member of the Christ family in heaven. There is a Scripture that speaks of the family of God in heaven. So she is free to join in her fullness with Christ Jesus who has been formed as a result of the union of Christ here and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Although, her whole heart wasn't in it because she also had another child, but now all of her is in this union, and all that remains is Christ, the Lord Jesus Christ forming the altar of Christ, and the man Christ Jesus, the offspring. The Devil is completely killed. Satan is forced down back under the authority of Christ, and the creation is restored back unto a positive expression of God's creation instead of a negative expression.
So did that help by me telling you that the word crucifixion has a positive definition. So if you can hear it, what has been bothering me for quite a while now, now makes sense to me. The crucifixion of Christ is the penetration of Christ, and still the end of the penetration of Christ is still the death of the carnal mind. It is the end result. What I didn't have straight is what happened in between. We are still talking about the penetration of the carnal mind, and the death of the carnal mind. We are still talking about the union or the making of one mind from the carnal mind and the Christ mind. All that is still true.
Everything that I taught you along that line is still true. I've really just added something that makes the actual phraseology of the crucifixion of Christ make more sense. It is not the crucifixion of Christ Jesus. It is not the crucifixion of the Mind of Christ, but when the Christ, the female member of the Christ family, is crucified or penetrated for the purpose of strengthening by the Lord Jesus Christ, the warrior is born, and then everything that I've been preaching to you all along comes to pass. The carnal mind is killed and destroyed by the warrior, Christ Jesus.
Is everybody OK? Does anybody have a question in this area? I know it is a little complicated. Don't worry about it. Let it go into your spirit, and I'm sure that the Lord will have me bring it forth from time to time until it becomes real to you.
COMMENT: When you say he penetrated Christ, what about the Mind of Christ? Is that the same thing as Christ? Is Christ and the Mind of Christ one and the same?
PASTOR VITALE: No. Let me try it again. The way a mind is born into the soul, a mind is the offspring of the soul. The soul has to give birth to the mind which is in it. The way a mind is born is that we have a union between a female spirit and a male spirit. The name of the female spirit is Eve, also known as the human spirit, also known as the spirit in man. She is also the breath which the Father breathed into the soul, the human spirit, that part of the soul which has the ability to reproduce as the female seed. She is the breath that the Father breathed into the soul.
That's how spirit got mixed in with the earth. The Father breathed the breath of Life, and when the male breath of the Father became mixed with the earth of the soul she became female, weak, can't do anything of herself. OK? And because she is made out of the same substance that the Father is made out of, spirit, she still bears His name, and her name is Christ. But she is the mother Christ. She is mom Christ.
What is the name of dad Christ? How do we call dad Christ? In this hour, the Lord Jesus Christ. At the beginning of time Jehovah, in this hour the Lord Jesus Christ.
So we have mom Christ. She is no good without a man. She is no good without a son, she's weak, she can't keep herself alive. So we see her joining with Jehovah who in this hour is called the Lord Jesus Christ, and they are producing an offspring. What is the name of the offspring? Christ Jesus which is the mind. That's not really true. Let me do this again. They are producing the man, Christ Jesus. The man, Christ Jesus, the only mediator between God and man. He is a man. He's a spiritual man, and this spiritual man has a conscious mind and an unconscious mind. He is a whole man, Christ Jesus.
What is the name of His unconscious mind? Anybody? Jehovah is daddy. We are talking about the man, Christ Jesus, second generation. The Spirit of Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ in this hour is daddy, the unconscious mind. The Lord Jesus Christ is the first generation of Christ. We are now in the second generation. The man Christ Jesus is in the second generation. His unconscious mind is the Spirit of Christ, and His conscious mind is the Mind of Christ.
Let's do it this way. We have at the beginning of time Eve which is mom Christ. We have Jehovah which is dad Christ. Then we have the Lord Jesus Christ, first generation. The Lord Jesus Christ has been raised from the dead and returned to the Father. He said, I go to My Father. That means, in this hour, the Lord Jesus Christ and Jehovah, dad Christ, are one. This is the first generation.
Now we are told that the Lord Jesus Christ has children as a second generation of Christ coming forth. That's us, the Sons of God. So in this hour, we still have Eve which is mom Christ. You see, mom Christ, is the mother of all living. She is the mother of the first generation, and she is also the mother of the second generation of Christ. She is the mother of all living. This is legal incest. She is married to Jehovah, she is married to the Lord Jesus Christ, and she is marrying Christ Jesus. She is always the wife, and she's always the mother, and it is legal incest because God said that's the way it is in the spirit.
So we see, in the second generation here, we have Eve who is mom Christ, we have the Lord Jesus who is dad Christ, and we have the man, Christ Jesus, who is the Son. The Son is a whole man, and His name is Christ Jesus. He has a conscious mind and an unconscious mind. The name of the unconscious mind of the man, Christ Jesus, is the Spirit of Christ. The name of the conscious mind of the man, Christ Jesus, is the Christ mind or the Mind of Christ.
Now, I struggled with this for a long time so please just don't worry about it. God will give it to you. We will talk about it until you get it, and I have made some changes here. I have told you that the Lord Jesus Christ is the unconscious mind, and that the conscious mind is the Christ mind, I've told you that. But I've always know there was something wrong with it, I just didn't have the answers.
Every variation in name means something. I just didn't know what it meant. So does this make any sense to you at all? OK. So we have got to make some changes here, and the Lord will help you. Any questions in this area? Praise the Lord.
COMMENT: When you say the Lord Jesus Christ, that's also the glorified Jesus Christ?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, when you hear the word "Lord," if you check this out in the Scripture, pretty much when ever you hear the Lord Jesus Christ it is referring to the glorified Christ. Before He is glorified, they may call Him Lord, but to hear the Lord Jesus Christ, that actual phrase, I think I studied it once, and also every time that phrase appears it is speaking about the glorified Jesus Christ. He's Lord over all. He's the glorified Christ. Hallelujah.
So, we see in this hour, we have Jehovah, and we have the Lord Jesus, and we have Christ Jesus, and we have the man, and then we have the woman. The Lord Jesus Christ either is manifesting as one with Jehovah, as the Father, or He's manifesting as one with Christ Jesus as the Son. So this is a great mystery, but there is only two generations of Christ, not three. The Lord Jesus is either one with Jehovah or one with the Son, and the Lord Jesus is the mediator between Jehovah and Christ Jesus, but Christ Jesus is the mediator between God and man.
Listen, the Lord Jesus is mediator between Jehovah and Christ Jesus, the Lord Jesus is either appearing as the Father, Jehovah, or He is appearing as the Son, Christ Jesus. But the man, Christ Jesus, is either appearing as the Lord Jesus which is the Father, now this is the second generation or Christ Jesus is appearing as one with the man as the Son.
Let me do that for you again. I'll make it clearer for you. The woman has no expression. She is a reflection of the man. That's the truth.
We have Jehovah, we have the Lord Jesus, and we have Christ Jesus. The Lord Jesus is the first generation of Christ, Christ Jesus is the second generation of Christ, and, to the person who doesn't have understanding, it looks like there is three generations here. It looks like there is a trinity, but there is no trinity. We see the Lord Jesus is the first generation mediator who was mediating between the Father, Jehovah, and the Son, Christ Jesus. And we see that the Lord Jesus either appears as one, He's a mediator, He's a "connecting to." He's either appearing as one with Jehovah, at which point He is the father, and Christ Jesus is the Son, and that was true of the first generation of Christ in the man, Jesus of Nazareth.
We see, in this hour, underneath Christ Jesus is the 42nd generation, also known as man. So now we see that Christ Jesus, the man Christ Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. Doesn't say there isn't any other mediator. It says the man, Christ Jesus, is the only mediator between God, the Father, and man. That doesn't mean there can't be a mediator between the Son and Jehovah, the God who is beyond the mind of man. See, Jehovah is outside of the mind of man, the Lord Jesus exists within the mind of man.
So, we see in the second generation of Christ, the mediator, Christ Jesus, can be either the Father when He's appearing with the Lord Jesus, or when He's at the bottom of Jacob's ladder the man, Christ Jesus, when He's appearing in humanity, is the Son, the second generation. Can you hear that? Or have I confused you totally? Ok.
Underneath all this, we have the woman who is the soul, and she has no identity. She is a reflection of the mind which is being revealed to her. OK? Now to human women, that sounds terrible, and for generations this was the true lot of women. They had no self-identity. They were merely expressions of their husbands and their children. Up until the time of women's lib, women was told if she didn't marry her life was worthless because the woman had no life in and of herself, and that was a type of the spiritual reality.
In this hour, women are finding self-expression, but there has been a terrible price that they have paid because when this dead soul tries to do what God can do, she does it imperfectly. So we have a lot of women, the psychiatric term is "individuated." Many women who have individuated, who have become individuals, who have developed themselves to a point where they can actually be satisfied without a husband and children, they develop their minds, they develop their talents, they develop their skills, they have careers, and there are many women out there today who don't want to get married because they have developed into an individual along the same lines that a man develops into an individual, but there are all kinds of drawbacks and problem in this soulish world.
But when the woman in the spiritual realm develops, the way the woman in the spiritual realm develops is that she becomes so joined to the Son that there is no difference, and she's completely satisfied, and it is a good thing in the spirit. It is a good thing. She is completely satisfied.
See, the problem that women ran into in this world is that when society was such that a woman's only creative expression was to be a wife and a mother, it left a lot to be desired because the average man lives a life to be desired. Men are not perfect, and a lot of women have been hurt for many centuries, having their happiness and their fulfillment dependent on imperfect men and imperfect children. But Christ Jesus is perfect.
So we are both the woman and the man. Right now, we are the woman, but in complete union, when we completely join with or when we marry the man, then there is no separation any more between us and the man. This is how you can say there is no male or female in Christ Jesus. When it is the man, Christ Jesus, fully manifesting through me, I am spiritually male.
So, this is a great mystery. But the woman is the soul, and when she is completely joined to the man, for all intents and purposes, will be the man and have all of the satisfactions and privileges and benefits of being a man because, in the realm of the spirit, when you are a woman, and you have children you are not tied down to homemaking and child rearing.
In the realm of the spirit, it is your Son, Christ, who is carrying you, who is supporting you, who is taking care of you, who is nourishing you, and there is no labor in spiritual things, so there is no cleaning or cooking or baking. It is the exact opposite of what it is in the soul realm.
So the soul is elevated up to the realm of spirit in spiritual marriage. In natural marriage, marriage and child bearing weighs the woman down to a soulish life of caring and nurturing children that she is locked into for 20 or more years, depending on the ages of her children. But, being a woman in the spirit raises you up to manhood, the exact opposite. Are there any questions? I'll take questions on any subject.
COMMENT: I heard you say several times that Job's wife was killed, and I can't find that in the Scripture.
PASTOR VITALE: I think you asked me that once before.
COMMENT: You said it again this morning. That's what brought it to my mind.
PASTOR VITALE: I think I told you I was going to check it out, and I haven't done it. It doesn't say anything about his wife?
I can't prove it to you, but it doesn't say that his wife died, but the reason I took the stand that his wife died is that I believe that this whole story of Job is a parable, speaking about Job's conversion from carnal man to Son of God, from the carnal mind to the Mind of Christ. And that is why I take the stand that his wife died because I know that we must die to our carnal mind, but I cannot prove it to you.
We might use a different choice of words, not so much that his wife died, but when we are speaking in spiritual terms his wife was renewed because when in Job's transition from a man who was filled with pride, that was moaning and groaning and condemning God for his condition, into a man....there had to be change in him. The change in him was that he received the Mind of Christ.
So what happened is that his carnal mind had to die and be stripped down to the human spirit, to the basic seed that was preserved, the human spirit, and she was rebuilt in Christ. So if you want to get technical, I guess you could say his wife didn't die, she was renewed or she was remade. If you want to get spiritual, or if you want to stay in the natural, as far as I'm concerned, she died. I believe his wife was his carnal mind, and he died to his carnal mind. That's my understanding by the spirit. If you choose not to believe that, that's perfectly alright with me. I acknowledge that the Scripture is not clear.
I just remind you that the Book of Job is the oldest book of the Bible, I'm told, and that....I hope you believe it is a parable, OK, it is a parable about the conversion process. His wife, I don't believe she was ever named, was she ever named? I don't believe she was ever named, so, to me that is another witness that Job was a man of the type who existed, possibly, before the flood, a superior man whose wife was within him. Because, you know my opinion here, that the men who existed before the flood had wives who were within them, and no ones wife is named before Abraham's wife, Sarai. I am speaking now about the descendants of Seth. I am not speaking about the descendants of Cain which was a fallen race.
Speaking about the descendants of Seth, no man's wife was named until Abraham's wife, Sarai. And I am of the opinion that all of those men up through Noah, Ham, Shem and Japheth were not men as we know men today, but they were some form of superior being, each of which was both male and female who had their wife within them. And that is why their wives aren't named, and I suspect that Job was one of those superior men whose wife was within him.
Why? Because she is not named, and if that be true, and I read this book and see the type of conversion that he had, I believe that I'm drawing an educated conclusion that he was married to his carnal mind, and she died, and he received the Mind of Christ. But you don't have to believe that, if you don't wan to. But I acknowledge that it doesn't say that his wife died. OK.
Any other questions about any issue?
COMMENT: When it says in Job that he had a house and children, does it means that he lost a spiritual house and spiritual children? I don't understand that. I thought I did, but now I don't.
PASTOR VITALE: Well, does it say he lost his whole house?
COMMENT: Yes, doesn't it say that?
PASTOR VITALE: He lost his sons and daughters and his cattle. I don't think it says he lost his whole house. I don't think his children were spiritual. I think his children were real. It is just a question of what they looked like because these superior beings that lived on the other side of the flood, they did have offspring. Again, I can't prove it to you, but I believe the Lord has told me that they did not reproduce in an animal body like we do; therefore, their offspring were not born dependent. Our offspring are born in a vile condition which are symbols of our spiritually weak condition. If a child doesn't receive care it will die.
Human beings are the only animals which are born in such a vile, weak condition, and I believe the Lord has told me that the offspring of the superior beings which existed on the other side of the flood were born as a result of some form of cell division, and they were born fully mature and able to care for themselves. So, he did have sons and daughters. I believe that, but they aren't spiritual. They are real, but they were born in an adult form that did not need a nurturing kind of mother that you are thinking of. What you are probably thinking is that if his wife was just his mind, who took care of his children? Or who gave birth to his children?
COMMENT: Where did they come from, what does it mean?
PASTOR VITALE: These beings did reproduce by some form of cell division which produced a fully mature adult offspring. That's the only information that I have right now, and I haven't looked up the words "sons and daughters," but I know that when those words appear in the Book of Genesis in the early part of the Scriptures they frequently do not.....the earlier back, the farther back you go, the less likely that these words will mean sons and daughters as we know sons and daughters. They just mean offspring. Not specifically referring to human sexuality.