221 - Part 1

This Message Has Been Transcribed And Edited For Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.


We have a message tonight on narcissism. You may recall that we did a message on this about six mo- -- or eight months ago, and I’ve been reading this book. The name of it is “Narcissism: The Denial of the True Self,” by Alexander Lowen, L-O-W-E-N.

So, as I was reading it, I just made some notes, and that’s all I have for my outline tonight. I’m just going to look at the comments that I made as I was reading this book and see what the Lord does with them. I was -- been working on this for several hours today, and I kept telling the Lord, this really is not -- these notes are really not enough to preach a message on, but I’ve experienced this with Him before. I’m sure He has something in mind. So let’s see what He’s going to do.

I would like to start by telling you that on the other message that we did on narcissism, I believe I told you that narcissism is a condition whereby the soul has risen up to protect the spirit, and I remind you that Satan is really soul operating in a spirit -- in the role of spirit -- but Satan is really soul and that he has risen up to do Righteous Adam’s job. If you remember, God told Righteous Adam, guard the garden, and the garden was Adam’s fertile parts, which is his human spirit. His human spirit was the one that was capable of producing fruit, and she is the garden that the Lord speaks about.

So I told you that Satan and the carnal mind had risen up. They’ve taken Christ’s role and Christ’s authority and were therefore trying to do the job that God commanded Righteous Adam to do, but being unqualified to do the job, Satan and the carnal mind was not protecting the human spirit, but killing her.

And I think we’re going to look at it from a little different point of view today. Now I’d like to remind you that different psychologists and psychiatrists have different viewpoints, and also we could be seeing what God is showing us from a different viewpoint, and then, sometimes, we go deeper. So we are a ministry of intelligent people here that are not bound. We can make changes. So you might hear something that sounds a little different than I said on the other message, so don’t let that upset you. You know, I’m reading a book by a different psychiatrist, right, and he may have some different opinions, and God may be showing me something a little different through this book than He showed me through the other book. So, if you have a question, feel free to ask me, but don’t get upset if something sounds a little different.

So I’d like to start by telling you that the Lord has altered my opinion a little bit about Satan and the carnal mind rising up to do Righteous Adam’s job. And what I believe He was telling me this morning was that Satan and the carnal mind really couldn’t care less whether the human spirit is protected, and they couldn’t care less about God -- about God’s commandment to protect her -- that the reason Satan and the carnal mind are guarding the human spirit, which is Eve, is that if she gets away from them, this whole existence is coming down. If you remember the teaching, the only way this world can exist -- and Satan has authority over this world, but no authority at all in the Garden of Eden -- this world exists because Satan has stolen the spiritual authority which is in the female seed. Do you remember that? In order to have a world appear, there must be some spirit operating, and Satan is not spirit. He’s soul. They needed the spiritual authority that was in Eve. Who was they? Satan and his carnal mind. They need something that’s spirit to make a world appear, and they have captured Eve. So they’re not guarding her because they’re trying to fulfill the Lord’s commandments. They’re guarding her because if she gets away from them, this whole world’s coming down, and their throne is coming down, and their existence as they now know it is coming down.

So, on the last message, I was correct by telling you that they’re guarding her, all right, but I now see their motive for doing it a little differently.

And I would like to point out to you one more time that every attitude that Satan has appears in men. Satan and the carnal mind are the mind of fallen man, and every attitude that they have, we see in the individual. Now here -- now that must have been my carnal mind telling me that Satan and the carnal mind are guarding Eve  because they’re trying to obey God, trying to be Righteous Adam, and as I was putting this message together, the Lord showed me that this is something that there’s a whole category of people that do it. They’re going to tell you that they’re doing something, and they’re going to tell you that they’re doing it for a good reason. They’re doing it to glorify God, they’re doing it for your good, they’re doing it for someone else’s good, and the truth is that they’re doing it for their own good.

We see this all -- I see -- I run into this -- I’ve been running into this all my life: people, as they’re slitting your throat, telling you that it’s for your own good. So, the next time you see somebody telling you that what they’re doing that’s affecting you is for your own good, when the truth is that it’s for their own good, you should know that it’s coming right out of Satan and the carnal mind, because that’s what they do.

These Scriptures have got to become real. Satan’s not a fantasy. He’s real. He’s in our mind. It’s real easy to say he’s some red freak out there somewhere. He’s in your mind, and he’s evil. Yes, there’s evil in our mind, and we have to know that.

Brethren, if there was no evil in our mind, the enmity in our flesh would not have to be slain. Does not the Scripture say that there’s an enmity in our flesh that must be slain? There’s evil in our mind. Glory to God. I don’t care how nice you are. I don’t care how good your manners are. I don’t care how many times you go to church. You might have it pressed down, but there’s evil in your mind.

So the question is: how are we going to deal with this evil? There is a healthy way to deal with it, and there is an unhealthy way to deal with it. Does anybody know the name of the unhealthy way to deal with evil in our mind?



            To suppress it.

To suppress it, denial, it’s the same thing, yes. That is not healthy. It is not healthy. It can result in a split in your personality, that the real you is pressed down and buried underneath, and the face that you’re showing to the world looks radically different than the real you. And the day comes that you’re going to stop functioning in the world, if you continue along that line. Denial is an unhealthy mechanism for dealing with ungodliness in our mind. And the godly method for dealing with it, does anybody remember?


Exposure. Exposure. You don’t go out and stand in the middle of 347, announcing your sin, but you let God -- you work with God to expose it under a godly situation that is controlled by the Lord, and then you confess it, and you repent, and you start working -- you lay hold of His power, and you start working to stop doing it. You start working to overcome it. You cannot overcome it if you’ve buried it so deep that you don’t believe it’s there. You cannot overcome it if you won’t admit that it’s there, and you cannot overcome it if you won’t repent that it’s there. You’ve got to look at it, full force, full face on, and lay hold of the power of God to overcome it and kill it. It’s got to die.

We’re not saved by works. We’re saved by union with the Son, and when we join with the Son, He exposes and kills our sin. Denial is destructive.

So, on a recent message -- I’ll just review this for you. We just said that the -- that our teaching here, our Scriptural teaching, lines up largely with psychology. Psychology says that we have an unconscious mind. They give it a name, they call it the id, and they identify it as lust. Sometimes I call it raging passions, but it’s really -- it’s dominance, it’s control, it’s lust. It’s very wicked, and the world knows that. The psychiatrists know that, that if we were given over completely to this unconscious mind, we’d probably be destroyed. So, in the Scripture, we know him as Satan, and we have then an unconscious mind, a conscious mind and a personality.

So, over here, we have a conscious mind. It’s called the -- how did I do this here? How did I do this here? I’m -- I see what I did. OK, I put the conscious over here. I’m going to draw a line down the middle, because we have something called the superego that is half conscious and half unconscious, and then we have the conscious mind, which is the personality, the ego -- the ego and the personality.

OK, so we said that the superego, the consci- -- the conscience -- we said the conscience is the carnal mind, believe it or not, God help us. The mind is the conscience. Whether it’s carnal or whether it’s Christ, the mind is the conscience, and the mind involves Eve. Now, when she’s relating to Satan, she’s unconscious, and when she is relating to the conscious mind or external or the world out here, she is conscious. The carnal mind -- Eve is engaged in a union with the carnal mind. She’s attached to her offspring. She operates in the unconscious realm as well as the conscious realm. And this is the conscience, God help us. This carnal mind is our conscience.

Now let me remind you also that the mind, which is in two parts, unconscious and conscious, dwells within a soul -- dwells within a soul. The mind is spirit. Let me remind you, the mind is spirit, and the soul is really made out of dust, but it’s enlivened dust, so we call it flesh, or the Bible calls it flesh.

And I would like to take a few minutes to remind you about something that the Lord brought forth in our Daniel 7 series, that the mind of man or -- which is the spirit of man -- has three parts to it. We found this in Daniel 7, if you’re looking for a Scripture for it. The heart or the mind of man, the Greek breaks it down into two different words, heart and mind, but in the Hebrew, the qualities that the Greek ascribe to both the heart and the mind are found in one word in the Hebrew: heart. The Hebrew word is “leb,” and it means the center. We have a natural heart, around which all of our physical organs are built, and we have a spiritual heart or a spiritual mind, a spiritual center around which everything else revolves. And it is in three parts, and the three are one.

We have the spiritual -- the female seed of God, which is Eve, and we have the spirit that impregnates her, either Satan or the Father, and then we have her offspring. When Eve is impregnated by Satan, her offspring is the carnal mind, and the threefold human -- and the threefold spirit that’s in man, also known as man’s mind, is the carnal mind. And when the Father impregnates Eve, and her offspring is Christ, the threefold spirit that is in man is called what?


It’s called Christ. So we have a mind that is in a soul, and the two of them together are our personality, the two of them working together are our personality, and of course, we have a body. And everything’s all attached. You know, when you -- when there’s physical pain in your body, it affects your soul, and it affects your spirit. We’re all attached. Can I take this down? Or maybe I’ll leave it up for another minute. Let me just go on to the next point here.

I’d like to speak a little bit about parents and their raising of children. They -- you see, we have a plague in this country today. It’s a plague of narcissism, and one of the overriding qualities of narcissism is that people become so involved, or some people, say, fall in love with their image that they’re neglecting their heart. They become so involved with -- and we see this all over the society -- with things -- people working two or three jobs to fill a house full of things, and their children and their family life is withering away because the -- their human needs are not being met, their human needs for family life and love and interaction with other human beings. They’re sacrificing all of that for things. It’s a plague on the nation today, and our society is becoming crippled. And what’s happening is that the true individual, the individual -- what they are inclined to be in their heart -- is being denied, and they’re replacing -- they’re not being true to themself. They’re replacing that with an image that’s conforming to this world system.

Does anybody not know what I’m talking about? We have a plague of people working at jobs that they despise. They work all year to take a two-week vacation that will make them happy. We have to be happy every day, brethren. If we’re not happy, we have to ask the Lord why we’re not happy and what we need to make us happy. Things and vacations do not make us happy. We should be happy in our everyday life. That doesn’t mean there are no problems.

So, I’d like to speak a little bit today on what -- or at least, some of the factors that are producing this narcissism, and I want to suggest to you that it has to do with the relationship between the parent and the child. Now, the Bible clearly instructs parents not to be overly harsh with their children, lest they should become bitter, but the Scripture also instructs us to impose strong moral values on our children. And what I want to suggest to you this means is that we as parents are hired by the Lord to strengthen the child’s mind, which is her -- which is his conscience, and that as the child’s conscience develops, it engraves its image upon the soul that it has received.

Let me say that again. Every child is born with a mind and with a soul. The soul is the expression of the mind. The way the Scripture says it, it says that the mind engraves its image upon the soul. That’s the way the Scripture puts it. So every child is born with a mind and with a soul, and depending on how the mind develops, we can see the direct result of it in the image of the mind which is expressed through the soul and seen in the personality. Now let me tell you this. The mind is conscience, the soul is emotion, and the personality is the whole person.

OK, so we see an a- -- an aspect of creativity in everyone’s mind, and that part of us which is creative, I suggest to you, is that part of us which is spirit, Eve. Even though we’re all fallen today, and we have a carnal mind, and Satan is our father, that element which is in us, which is Eve, is our creativity, our spirit, because the Spirit of God is very creative. The Scripture expresses Him, when He’s being seen through the creation, as an orchestra, that He’s doing something different through every human being, but together we all harmonize. All creativity is in the spirit. The soul is just clay. It expresses what we are in the spirit.

So, it’s a parent’s job to not crush that creativity. Now, there’s a very well-known psychologist that gives a lot of lectures these days, and he speaks a lot about that wonder child and how the kind of discipline that we’re instructed to give in the Scripture breaks the heart of that wonder child. He’s talking about the human spirit, and he’s preaching that it shouldn’t be done. And I want to suggest to you -- I did mention this a couple -- a year or two ago -- on another message, but I want to bring it up again tonight, that there -- we have a spirit, a human spirit -- her name is Eve -- but there is also a -- the guy is soul, but he’s acting as spirit. And the kind of discipline that the Scripture talks about, which is designed to strengthen this mind, which is the conscience, is directly designed to break the power of this guy here that’s acting as spirit. He needs to be broken. Satan in the mind of a human being needs to be brought into submission, or that human being will be in hell for their entire life.

And the degree to which the spirit of Satan or -- well, I’m going to say he’s a spirit, because he’s taken on the spirit role -- the degree to which he is broken in an individual is directly proportionate to the -- I will -- I -- for lack of a better word, I’ll say the success level of that person’s life, and I’m not talking about how much money you earn. I’m talking about their ability to have godly and fulfilling relationships and have a blessed life. It is directly proportionate to the degree to which that Satan -- that Satanic spirit is broken in them as a child.

And, on the other hand, their wonder child or their creat- -- Satan is not creative. Your creativity is in Eve. So the degree to which Satan is broken releases the creativity which is in Eve, and she develops all -- to be all that she can be. Her conscience is made strong, and the flesh of her soul becomes a healthy expression of the mind. The -- both the mind and the soul are supposed to be saying the same thing.
Why? Because the soul is -- it’s supposed to be in the image of the mind. Is everybody following me on that? It’s as if you put mud over your face. You should still be able to recognize my features if I put a mud pack on my face, because the mud is just expressing what’s underneath. Is everybody OK? But we find in narcissism that there becomes a big separation and discrepancy, a difference between what the soul looks like and what the mind looks like, and we’re going to talk about how that happens.

So, just to restate what I just said, according to the Scripture, it is the parents’ commission to build a conscience in their child’s mind, break the power of Sat- -- I should have said that first -- break the power of Satan, build a conscience and foster an environment that will permit their spirit to be -- to express all of the creativity that God has birthed in that child. And the way that they do it is by strong moral instruction, strong moral restraint, and the Scripture says, don’t be grievous to your children on the soulish things that they should become bitter. Don’t -- what that means is: enforce the conscience, and give them a chance to make decisions and discipline themself to the fullest degree that they’re able.

Of course, when they’re very young children, you have to watch them, but the way for them to grow up in a healthy way is to build a strong conscience, but what we see in this country today is a society that believes in not forming a strong conscience, a society that is preaching, don’t break the Satanic spirit, because they don’t understand that it’s the Satanic spirit. They can’t -- they don’t understand that there’s a Satanic spirit and a human spirit and that the two are one and that one can -- in Christ, one can be broken. Satan can be broken without breaking Eve. They don’t understand that. So they’re going against all the rules of the Scripture. They’re telling you to do it another way, and what they’re doing is that they’re trying to influence the soul without building the conscience. They’ve got it backwards. They’ve got it backwards.

Let me say it again. God says, work with the spirit. Break Satan, encourage the creativity, and enforce strong moral principles on the mind, and you will see a godly expression of that mind showing through a soul which will line up with the mind.

But we see a society which is rejecting God’s rule, and they’re not working with the conscience. They’re working with the soul, and they’re saying to the children, this is what you should be. I want you to be a doctor. I want you to be a lawyer. I want you to be a good girl. I want you to sit there and not cry. I want you to be an A student. I want you to be my -- what is my concept of a successful person. And this is a fallen parent with a fallen mind saying, I have decided what you are going to be, and I want your soul to be that way. Don’t cry, don’t talk, don’t -- you’re going to go to college, and you’re going to be a doctor. Don’t tell me you want to be an artist. Does anybody not know what I’m talking about? Anybody? OK.

So we see a society that is priding itself in being so liberal about raising their children, but something’s got to be wrong because we’ve got a society of addicts, a society of compulsive people. Something has got to be wrong, and what I’m suggesting to you is that when the parents don’t break the power of Satan and release the creativity in the child, when they come from the outside instead of from the inside, and they tell the child what to do and what to be and what to think -- when they start to tell that child what to think and make their decisions for them, this soul, which is the flesh, becomes something that is not an expression of that child’s mind.

Let me say it again. The soul is supposed to be an expression of the child’s mind. It is the parent’s responsibility to break the power of Satan and create the best possible environment for creativity through moral instruction. When they don’t do that, but they go to the outside, they develop a soul that does not line up with the mind in which Satan is raging, and creativity is crushed, and there is a split. The soul is not expressing the mind of the child, but the soul is expressing the mind of the parent, and we see a soul that is not -- that is split away from the mind of the child.

So we’ve talked here about multiple personalities, and we’ve known -- I’ve always known, from when I first started teaching along these lines, that what we call multiple personalities here, that the psychiatrists would not agree that they were multiple personalities, and the way I’ve described it here is that I’ve called it a lesser manifestation of a multiple personality. And I want to tell you, I’m going to be perfectly honest with you. I always have been. I’m no scientist, and neither am I a psychiatrist, but God has given me some very interesting messages. And a couple years ago, I was speaking to a psychiatric nurse, and I asked her something about a split personality, and she told me there is no split personality. And she gave me a whole big explanation for it, and ever since then, I figured she knew what she was talking about, and I stopped talking about split personalities, and the only way I could describe what I’ve been calling a multiple personality was by calling it a lesser manifestation of what the psychiatrists call a multiple personality.

Well, this book that I’m reading from today speaks about a split personality, so apparently, I got some bad information from some well-meaning person, but I should have -- as a matter of fact, I went to two psychiatric nurses, and they both told me the same thing. So I take full responsibility for it, but here it is, two years later, and I’m going to have to tell you that what we’ve been calling the lesser manifestation of a multiple personality is in fact a split personality. Now what is the difference?

Let me tell you what the difference is. A multiple personality is when a person has more than one complete personality in their mind. They completely switch over to be a completely different person, a different name. Usually, the first  personality is blocked out, and the major personality has memory lapses, because when the second personality is manifesting, the first personality has no memory at all.

A split personality is one identity, one identity, but what’s split is the mind and the soul. The soul is not expressing the mind of that person, and that’s where the split takes place. The mind is supposed to be inside the soul like a glove. The soul is supposed to be covering the hand like a glove. They’re supposed to -- it’s supposed to be expressing the mind, but in this condition, the soul is expressing someone else’s mind, the parent’s mind or someone else’s mind, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the mind of the individual. Is everybody with me?

That is the split, and when this split takes place, it creates a condition called narcissism, and there’s a whole scale of degrees of which you can be narcissistic, some of them much more destructive than others. In the -- in an extreme case, you find what I believe they call psychopathic narcissism, where the -- which is the -- bordering on paranoia, where this person -- where this soul, this -- the personality believes that they’re Napoleon or Jesus Christ. They think that they’re someone that isn’t even real, and inside is a mind that has not been adequately developed. It’s a mind that has not been freed from the tyranny of Satan, and that is our job as parents, to break whatever Satanic will and element is in the child that hasn’t been broken. So Satan’s doing whatever he wants, the creativity has not been released, and the child or the adult at this point is terrified. They suffer from intense fear, and it’s usually a fear of death, because they’re being so overtaken from the outside that they’re riddled with fear.

So I went way beyond my notes. Let me just back up here and check over my notes and see what I didn’t tell you. So, you see, when God puts children in our hands, they don’t belong to us. We’re just caretakers, and we’re here to teach them the morality of God and teach them about the things of God, to help them to overcome their -- Satan in their own mind and to overcome the emotions of their soul and the evil that’s in their spirit. And God has told us that if we do that, that we have every reason to hope that this child will become an adult who will lead a productive life. That’s our job. These children don’t belong to us, and they’re not given to us to fulfill what we failed to do in our lifetime.

So the moral development of the conscious mind or of the con- -- not the conscious mind -- of the conscience will produce a strong mind, will produce a mind that breaks the power of Satan and increases the creativity and gives moral strength to the individual.

            What was that [INAUDIBLE]?

I said, the moral development of the conscience produces a strong mind. The moral development will break the power of Satan and free up the creativity. There are people in this world who have a weak mind. We were talking about it earlier. That’s a manifestation of a weak mind, when someone with a strong mind can come to you and join with you and express himself through you. It’s spiritual rape, and for someone to have that vulnerability, something went wrong in the development of their conscience. Something went wrong in the development of their spirit. Why? Because a mat- -- by a matter of conscience, one would be able to say to an invading mind, no, that’s not right, what you’re asking me to do.

So, what Jesus Christ does, when He starts to work with people that are damaged, is that He goes into their mind, and He starts to strengthen their mind. See, no matter how messed up their life looks like, no matter how messed up their soul is, He works on the mind because the soul is just the expression of the mind. But we do find a principle here, that in a case where there’s a split, where the soul is not expressing the mind of the person, but the soul is expressing the mind of the parent who may even have been long dead, that the way this person is going to get free is by looking at themself.

People who are in denial are people who have a split personality like this. They think they are their soul who thinks they’re on top of all their problems, who smiles all the time, who has an answer for everything, but the truth is that in their heart, in their mind, they’re afraid and they’re not in control at all. And there’s no he- -- no hope of strengthening this mind until this false personality that’s out front recognizes that that’s not them, that they’re not really that strong person that they think they are, but they’re this weak person that’s inside, and it’s time to start strengthening that weak person and living in some kind of reality.

So the answer, the cure for narcissism, is to look at oneself, to look at one’s true self, and that is the inner self. And I want to suggest to you, that as I went through this book, it just became clearer and clearer to me that what the psychiatrists today call narcissists is what the Bible calls Pharisees. It was very clear to me. They’re Pharisees. They put on exterior shows of being holy, and they convince themselves that they’re holy because of the things that they do or the things that they wear or the things that they say, but inside, their conscience is undeveloped. Their creativity is stifled. They’re in bondage, and the evil of Satan is raging.

You may not be able to get out, because this personality that’s developed out here, that’s been imposed by the parent, may be a self-righteous personality that says, thou shalt not fornicate, thou shalt not smoke, thou shalt not drink. So the person won’t do it, but the true them is raging to drink, is desiring to smoke, and there’s a conflict between their true desire and what’s appearing in their personality.

You see, the ministry was not to their mind. The true ministry of Christ will convince the person’s mind that they do not want to smoke, that they do not want to drink, that they do not want to fornicate, and then, in their soul, they will not, and they will be at peace. But a law that is imposed from the outside, from someone else’s mind, that says you cannot do these things leaves a person with a mind that’s craving and raging to do them. And it takes a lot of energy to live a life where your soul is complete -- is a com- -- an expression of something that is not you. It takes great energy to maintain and sustain this lie.

And it’s a big psychiatric principles, known throughout psychiatric circles, that those things that we are afraid of -- some people have a lot of fears that if -- at our root, we really desire them. We really desire them. A woman that has a terrible fear of being raped might find out that she has an unconscious desire to be a wildly sexual person. We fear, because deep down in our heart, we desire it, and we are afraid that ungodly desire is going to get out and overtake us. We think we’re afraid of the man walking down the street that’s going to rape us, but we’re really afraid that there’s something in us that is craving. And it doesn’t have to be sexuality -- it could be anything.

We fear what we ourselves, on some level, desire, but we believe it’s ungodly, and we’re afraid we’re going to lose control of it. We think we’re afraid of it happening from the outside, but we’re really afraid that we’re going to lose control, and we’re going to do this thing or we’re going to desire this thing.

So, let’s try and get on with this. I think I mentioned to you that the soul has emotion, and the raging of an immature personality is coming from the soul, but the spirit has rebellion. OK, this is interesting. Let [AUDIO CUTS OUT] board. Let me put this up for you. We hear a lot about Bible schizophrenia and rejection and rebellion, and I don’t know about you, but I always thought that, well, it was just, you know, the personality, and there was a spirit called rejection, and there was a spirit called rebellion.  But I thought you might find it interesting to hear it from this point of view, that when a parent starts to impose his personality on the child, when the parent starts to mold that child’s personality -- I feel to say it again.

The parent is supposed to impose morality. He’s supposed to develop the mind of the child in a strong moral way and then let that child’s mind develop their own personality. When the parent comes in and overreaches his authority and tries to develop the child’s personality -- when the child has a natural talent for music, and you try to divert them away from it because you hate music, that kind of thing. It happens. I hope you know that that happens. OK. So when the parent or the outside influence comes to the child and tries to mold their personality, we see that the spirit of the child or the mind of the child rises up to defend itself, but the child is no match for the parent, and what we have is a spirit that becomes rebellious. Rebellion is in the spirit. The spirit rebels.

The result of the spirit rebelling -- well, let me say this first. The job of the spirit, or the job of the mind, is to rule over the emotions. We know that we cannot all give way to our emotions. A spirit that is defending itself because the parent or the guardian is invading their right to produce their own personality -- that spirit rises up in rebellion against the aggressor, which is exerting an ungodly authority over them, and it may not have enough energy left to deal with the -- with its emotions. So we find raging emotions, temper tantrums, all forms of lack of emotional discipline present, right? So we have a rebellious spirit, uncontrollable emotions because the spirit’s not controlling the emotions, and then, where does the rejection come in?

We all know, those of us that have studied Bible schizophrenia, we know that rejection works hand in hand with rebellion. I want to suggest to you that the personality that the guardian is forcing onto the child, that’s -- that personality, that soul which is not an expression of the mind of the child, but of the mind of the external influence -- that what we might call false self rejects the true self. Now, the parent -- a parent or a guardian has great authority. They could do this. They do it -- parents do it to children all the time. I don’t know any child that can resist the influence of a parent molding that child’s personality. The strongest children -- well, let me say it this way. The weakest children come into the image that the parent makes for them. The strongest children fight as hard as they can and become rebels with messed-up lives. They’ve never given in to that parent, but in the fight, they’re just ruined.

Does anybody not know what I’m talking about? We all know kids like that. They’re just messed up, societal dropouts. So rebellion is of the spirit, uncontrollable emotions is of the soul, and rejection -- the rejection comes from the false self, the false image or the false soul that is created by the guardian, and that false soul is rejecting the true creativity and reality which is the mind of the child. And we find a distorted, perverted personality in a person that has had this experience.

So we can say, parents, don’t -- do not break the child’s spirit, but do the break this -- that which is in the child which is of Satan. Break that. And how is Satan described? He is controlling, he is manipulative, he is rebellious, he is strongly evil. That must be broken. Do not break the child’s creativity. Do not impose grievous external rules. Do impose strenuous moral teaching. Jesus.

In the infantile state, the infant cannot tell the difference between himself and the one who feeds and cares for him. This is called a symbiotic relationship, when you can’t tell the difference between the two people that are involved. It’s acceptable for a season in infants. They can’t tell the difference between themselves and the mother who holds them close. But we find adults in this society today who have symbiotic relationships. They cannot tell the difference between themselves and their husband. They cannot tell the difference between themselves and their adult child. They cannot tell the difference between themselves and their 3-year-old child. You -- it’s not supposed to exist even with a 3-year-old child. They can’t tell the difference.

Well, now, that doesn’t mean that they can’t see that their body is separate from them, but we have parents in this society -- and not only parents -- husbands, wives, sisters, brothers -- that think that whatever they think that their -- whoever their person in the relationship with is going to think. I’ve heard parents say, I can’t believe my daughter thinks that way. I can’t believe my wife thinks that way. You’re not allowed to be difference from me. What I think, you must think. It’s a witchcraft on the mind that possesses the mind.

And some minds are completely under the control of someone else’s mind, and they think whatever that ruling mind thinks. They have no thoughts of their own. Some people are trained not to think. They have no opinions, and their personality has not been developed. If everything you think and say is what my father said or what my husband said or what my brother said or what my teacher said, what do you think? What do you think? What’s your opinion? That’s an infantile condition. I don’t mean to make you feel bad. The truth is going to set you free.

So we have a controversy in the psychiatric world. Some psychiatrists say, well, what has caused this problem in a human being is that they just never matured. For some reason, they just never matured out of this condition where they can’t tell the difference between themselves and the person that they’re attached to. They’ve just never matured. They’ve become fearful because they’re dependent and they’re weak, and it’s just a lack of maturity.

And then we have another group of psychiatrists that say it’s more than a lack of maturity. It’s a diversion of the maturity, and what he means then -- that’s what this author says, and what he means is that the parent has done something to misdirect the development of the child. He thinks it’s not a lack of maturity, but a maturing in the wrong direction, and again, we have what I had on the board, a maturing of the soul without the mind from the outside in.

This is what he says, and I’m inclined -- I -- oh, I -- well, I think it’s both. I think that it’s  a failure to mature that arises out of rebel -- you know, rebellion from that pressure that’s coming from the outside to make you into something that you’re not. And then it’s also that pressure that creates the false self that causes a split personality in the individual. And the result is a narcissistic personality. And what does that mean? It’s, in short, someone who has a personality that the way they appear has nothing whatsoever to do with what they are inside. They look self-confident. Sometimes these people are very financially and socially successful, and inside, they suffer from all kinds of pain and torment and fears, fears of death, fear of everything, fear of -- some people fear success. They’re just -- what they are inside is not what they look like outside. They look real good outside, but inside, they’re little children.

And then we have their -- what they call the converse. We have some people that look like they’re real failures. They look like they’re immature, like they’re real children, that they can’t function in this world, that they just can’t make it. They’re falling down all over the place. We see this kind of personality in people that are living on the streets. They look like they just can’t make it, and then you try to get into a relationship with them, and you find out that their mind is tyrannical and controlling and seductive and manipulative. And you look at them, and you say, how come they’re living on the streets when they have such a strong mind? Because the personality that they are does not reflect -- or the personality that you see does not reflect what they are.

So let’s go into this a little deeper.

            I think the true child was crushed.

The true child was either crushed or not developed properly, and we’ll go into that in a little while. Either crushed completely, or both -- both crushed in that it was not allowed to develop and become all that it could be, and then on the other hand, was victimized in that the parent did not break the Satanic power, and the Satanic power has overtaken and is ruling through that child.


So, crushed on the one hand, that they couldn’t become all they could be, and victimized on the other hand in that that child was allowed to become strong in a way that it should have never become strong. Does that answer your question?


So we see this. We see -- those of us that work with these kinds of people, we see it. To the carnal mind, it makes no sense at all, that somebody that weak should be that dominating and controlling and aggressive. It’s inconsistent. It doesn’t make any sense. But the healthier a person is, the less controlling, the ness -- the less domineering and the less manipulative and the less seductive they are. Why? Because they have attained social skills that can help them to get their needs met. They don’t have to do that. That’s infantile. To get your needs met by control and seduction and manipulation is the activity of a human being that has not matured properly, and I don’t mean to insult anybody. That’s the truth.

You do not have to stay that way. If you look at yourself, and you see that you’re doing these things, that you get your needs met through passive aggression, through manipulation, through seduction, you don’t have to stay that way. What you need is to get your human spirit or your mind matured. You need to ask the Lord to help you to mature your mind, because when your mind matures, you’re going to stop doing these things, and you’re going to stop having problems in your relationships, because a person who uses manipulation and seduction and domination to get their needs met has trouble in their relationships. Why? Because people don’t like being dominated, and people don’t like being seduced, and people don’t like being manipulated. They don’t like it. So you’ve got trouble in your relationships, if you’re doing that.

But in Christ, you don’t have to stay that way. Your mind can mature under the power of God. It will go in there, it will break the power of that Satanic spirit, and it will let your creativity express itself, but Satan must be broken. And if he’s not broken as a child, it’s more difficult for him to be broken as an adult, but in Christ, all things are possible. But Satan must be broken. Your mind must mature, and then your mind must bring your emotions under control, under a godly control. And your personality must -- that false personality must come down, and your true self must begin to be expressed through your soul. But we’ve got war on our hands. We’re talking about war here.

So narcissism, on the one hand, appears to be putting it -- an exaggerated amount of effort into putting up an image, putting up a show, making yourself to be something that you’re not. There are all different degrees of narcissism, but every narcissist is involved in putting up a false front. Now what happens is, that after the guardian’s image of you is imposed upon you, and this false personality is imposed upon you, what seems to happen is that the individual that this has happened to receives it as its own and nurtures it, and it’s actually Satan coming out of their unconscious mind, strengthening this false personality.

Now why would Satan want to do that? Because so long as this false personality is strong, and the true creativity and the godly mind is crushed, Satan is having his free reign. You see, as soon as Christ comes in and starts to strengthen your mind, the first thing or one of the first things He’s going to start to do is break the power of Satan. So Satan, wanting to continue in his freedom, gives his strength to the false personality to keep it standing, because he knows when that false personality comes down, and the true creativity comes forth, and Christ begins to exercise authority over the personality, that Satan will be broken. So Satan gives his strength to the false personality. Satan gives his strength to the narcissism that was originally imposed by a guardian from the outside. The Satan in the individual joins with the tyran- -- the tyranny from the outside to make the mind of the in- -- of the child captive.

And we find in this society and among narcissists that they’re more concerned with how they appear than how they feel. They’re more concerned with their false self than when their -- with their true self, which is their heart or their mind, how they appear. So, when we find ourselves with an image that doesn’t reflect what we’re feeling, if we’re -- we’re really a very frightened person, and we put up the image of a real tough guy, as we live our life, we’re going to find the necessity to repress all feelings that contradict our image. If we’re really fearful, and we’re telling everybody that we’re a tough Green Beret, and we find fear arising, we’re going to have to repress that fear lest our person -- lest our false front be exposed.

So we find the denial of feeling being a very significant factor in narcissism or a split personality. Denial of feeling is the number one originating force, and we get to the point where we are willing to sacrifice. Now this is all unconscious. People are willing to sacrifice every degree of creativity, everything that they really are, just to keep this false front up. They’ll sacrifice anything or anybody -- their children, their husbands, their wives -- that this front should not come down, that people should not see the real them. They’ll sacrifice anybody and anything that they should not be exposed.

So we find that narcissism is the denial of the true self, the denial of the true self, which is the heart or the mind of the person. A significant sign of narcissism is a fear of death or a fear of insanity, a fear of death or a fear of insanity, sometimes a fear of success, depending on the personality that has been posed -- imposed externally. If the personality that has been imposed is that you are a loser, that you are a failure, that you can never make it, well, then that person grows up, and they’re afraid of success because this personality that has been imposed upon them is the personality of a loser, and maybe there’s a really talented self inside there. And what results is a fear of success, because the ego cannot resolve this conflict between the false self and the true self, and the true self is in bondage, chained down there.

And, of course, the fear of death and also the fear of insanity originates also with Satan. He went -- he makes -- you know, he lets us be afraid. When that false self comes down, it’s his death. It’s the end of him when that false self comes down.

So I have some signs of narcissism, also known as Phariseeism here. A marked discrepancy between the image -- or between the ego image or between the soul and the actual self, which is the mind. Our actual self is the mind. We are not this body, and we are not this soul. We are this mind, which is spirit. The body and the soul serve us.

Signs of narcissism or Phariseeism: arrogance. Can anybody here not say that Pharisees are arrogant? Can anybody disagree with that? They’re arrogant. They go out, and they’re filled with self-righteousness and condemnation. They’re arrogant. They’re insensitive to other people. They’re insensitive to other people, what they s- -- what they’re saying can be hurting people, can be embarrassing people, and the only thing that they’re aware of is that they have a need to do what they’re doing or to say what they’re saying. And there’s no communication of feeling whatsoever. They have no idea that this person’s embarrassed, or this person is hurt, and usually, people that are so insensitive to other people are insensitive to themselves. The reason that they can’t perceive that they should stop what they’re saying, because they’re gone too far and they’re really upsetting that person, is that they’re -- they deny their own feelings to such a degree that they ha- -- they cannot perceive other people’s feelings. They just don’t perceive feelings, either in themselves or in other people. They just don’t perceive other people’s feelings or their own. They just do -- they are insensitive to feeling.

Now this is the sign of a person whose soul is not an expression of their mind. They are seductive and manipulative. Well, let me say this first. They seek power and control. They seek power and control, because they are not mature enough to have a negotiable relationship, where you go with people, you relate to people, you both express what you would like, and you compromise and find a way for both of you to be happy. They’re not mature enough to do that. They want what they want, and the method that they use to get it is control: control, power and domination. And aligned with that is seduction and manipulation. They desire the power and control, and their weapon is seduction and manipulation.

Now what is seduction? Seduction is when a strong mind comes to you and tells you to do something that you know is wrong, and he keeps influencing you until you give in. That’s a form of seduction. Manipulation -- see, sedu- -- manip- -- well, seduction is more or less forcing the person to agree with you by -- because of their weakness. Manipulation tricks them into agreeing with you. And these two techniques are propelled by power and control, a desire for power and control.

And then, of course, we have denial and projection. Pharisees as well as narcissists are known for denial. Denial of what? Denial of the true condition of their self. They think they are this false front that they have been put up. They’ve read the Bible, and they’ve said to themselves, well, I want to be what’s in this Bible, and I’m going to do all these good works, and I’m going to do all these things. But, as Jesus said, they’ve cleaned the cup and the platter, but they have not cleaned what’s inside their heart, and inside their heart is dead men’s bones. Their Christ is dead. That’s what Jesus meant when He said, “Inside your heart is dead men’s bones.”

Christ was not raised from the dead, and your righteousness has not been raised from the dead in you. You’re not making any internalized change at all. All you’re doing is making externalized change, and you’re filled with dead men’s bones. Your heart has to change. You have to admit that there’s something wrong with your motives, no matter how good it looks on the outside, that it’s not Christ motivating you. How do I know that? Because Jesus said to this category of people, “You’re filled with dead men’s bones.” So, if there’s dead men’s bones in you, that means that Christ hasn’t been raised from the dead. That means what you’re doing, no matter how good it looks, it’s not Christ motivating you. It’s your carnal mind motivating you, and that’s sin, no matter how good what you’re doing looks.

So we see Pharisees and narcissists very deep into den- -- into the denial of their true motives and their true nature, and we find in the Scripture something called the judgment seat of Christ, which the Lord has promised will strip down these walls of denial and show up every Pharisee for what they really are, and what is that? Dead -- men of dead bones, yes, because all we are is spirit, and everything else is just passing through. We are spirit, and if your spirit is dead, your works are dead. And if your spirit -- even if Christ is appearing in your spirit, if your motives are coming out of your carnal mind, you’re as good as dead. Jesus is looking at your motives. He’s not looking what you do -- at what you do.

We’ve got to get this into our head. We’ve got to get it into our head that He’s going to the inside and coming out. He’s not going from the outside and in. He’s looking at our hearts. He’s not looking at our good works. He’s looking at our reasons for doing good works, and if your reason for doing good works is that you think that it’s going to get your into heaven, you’re mistaken. It’s not. It’s going to kill you. And if you think you’re holy because you do good things and kind things for people, it has nothing whatsoever to do with Christ or your salvation. You’ll reap what you sow for your kindness to people, but if you want to enter into the Kingdom, you’ve got to start to deal with your motives, and you can’t deal with them until you see them. And your false self will not die until you start to see your true self.

It’s time to look in, brethren. Jesus clearly said, “Look at the beam in your own eye before you look at the mote in your brother’s eye.” It’s time to look inward. We have a church filled with Pharisees that are -- have their eyes on everybody else but themselves. He did this, and he did that, and they -- and I forgive them. And they’re right up there, saying all the right words, but they’re not examining their own souls.

So we also see that Pharisees and narcissists are focused upon their own interests. They’re focused upon their own interest. They’re doing all these things because they want to be holy, but we find that frequently, although they’re focused on their own interest, their values are not what they think they are. In other words, they’re not doing these good works for the true motives. They’re not doing it out of a heart of Christ. They’re doing it because they want to be holy without giving up their sin.

We also find some men -- some narcissists are without a sense of self or without a sense of identity. I’ve known some people like that. They don’t really know who they are, but they’re just being led around by lust and bodily functions. They just follow their lust and their bodily functions, and they’re not -- they have no contact at all with their mind or who they really are. I meet a lot of drug addicts in that condition. I’ve been amazed at the condition of the minds of some of these drug addicts that I’ve met, and it’s just been very clear to me -- they’re intelligent people -- that their mind was never developed. Their creativity was never developed. They’re just living out of some false personality of ignorance. It’s a tragedy. It’s not enough to stop drinking. They need their mind renewed. That’s only half a job, to stop them, if they -- if they do get delivered and stop drinking, it’s only half a job.

Many people that are narcissists experience their life as empty and meaningless and experience a loss of human values, because we put all of our -- those of us who are narcissists or Pharisees put all of their energy into their image, and human values and -- go by the wayside and -- for many of them, and I know many Pharisees that are very depressed. I want to tell you that if you’re really open to God, to moving in the Spirit, life is very exciting. Life is very exciting, but you’ve got to let Him be the boss. He’s not going to be in a power play with you. You can’t be telling Him what to do.

They find success more important than wisdom, and -- more important than wisdom and self-respect. They find financial and career success more important than wisdom and self-respect. And they find notoriety -- that means being famous for a bad reason -- more important than dignity. And this again is the overvaluing of the false image -- it’s not really us -- at the expense of our true creative self. So we find some very messed-up people, some of them living very acceptable social lives. They’re everything that their parents wanted them to be, but they have literally sacrificed their own self to be that, and a lot of these people are just plain depressed, and they’re not even sure why.

So, as I said, in the narcissistic personality, Satan is not broken in early childhood. Satan’s -- rises up, and his rule is tyrannical. OK, I have some diagrams for you on that, if I can find them. Just one second. I want to jump ahead to this. And, well, I have a couple of diagrams on the mind of the child as it’s developing. OK, we have over here Satan unrestrained. This is in the case of a parent that’s forming the child’s soul instead of the child’s mind. And we have the parent over here, and the parent is not being influenced by Christ, but the -- and over here, we have the carnal mind unrestrained. The carnal mind is evil. It needs to be straighten -- restrained. And what is the restraint for the carnal mind with someone in whom Christ is not appearing?

            The law.

The law, the law. And we have over here the false self that the parent is inflicting on the child, also unrestrained. So we see -- this is an instance -- what I’m drawing for you here is the average person that, even though Satan is not broken, they’re not completely evil, because even though the parent is influencing the child from the wrong point of view, they’re still giving them some moral background. So we see an individual that has a personality -- a [?false personality?] developing this way. We see Satan unrestrained has produced an unrestrained carnal mind, which is raging, rebellious and wicked and evil. And then we see a parent whose moving in Satan has produced a false personality.

This person has a false personality and a true personality, and that is what we call a split personality. They’re two people, two people. They have a carnal mind, which is evil and wicked, and a false self that is usually the exact opposite: a goody-goody, happy person, or the false self can be ha- -- can be very personable, and the true self can be just very into themselves. And sometimes, you know, you think you know somebody, and then you see them one day, and they’re a totally different person. Well, what’s happened is that the false self has gone down, and the self that has been produced in this double-minded person has come up. This is a split personality or a double-minded person -- a double-minded person. They both have a carnal mind, which has been unrestrained because Satan hasn’t been broken, and they also have a false self, because their parent didn’t do a totally disastrous job. He gave them some moral training. Does everybody understand that? There’s two of them.

OK, next we have -- I put Satan off over here. Satan’s unrestrained. We have the human spirit, Eve. Oh, I see. This is the healthy personality. We have the parent over here, and this is the parent that is influenced by Christ. OK, and we see the carnal mind appearing -- one personality appearing. We see Satan giving an influence over here and the parent in Christ giving an influence here. Now we -- this is not a split personality. We have one personality coming up, the carnal mind, which is influenced by Christ or the law. This is the healthy personality. They’re not split. That personality is not split. Everybody OK?

OK, just give me a second to look at my notes here. And this carnal mind is restrained, and this personality that I have on the board here, it’s not at all split. The carnal mind is restrained. That means Satan is broken, and this is the person that has the greatest potential for the most positive life one could hope for. We’re all fallen, and it’s not going to be perfect, but the person with the personality like that, where the parent, influenced by Christ, has restrained that carnal mind -- and, of course, Satan has to be broken for that to happen -- that person has the greatest potential for the best life one could hope for. Satan has been broken. Their creativity is allowed to be expressed. The passions of the soul are under the control of the mind, and the person is now ready to go forth, and -- the child is ready to now go forth and, hopefully, make a life for themselves.

I want to tell you, brethren, no matter how intelligent you are -- you can be a genius -- if you cannot control your emotions, or if you cannot discipline yourself enough to study, that mind is going down the tubes. You can’t do anything with your genius if you can’t direct yourself to study, if you can’t discipline yourself to study, if you can’t control your emotions. Your intelligence is going by the wayside. It’s not enough to be intelligent. It’s not enough to graduate law school. You have to know how to deal with your clients. You have to know how to work with other people. Our society, in many instances, has forgotten that. They think all our children need is food, clothing, a bed to sleep in and an education. No, they need a social education. They need to learn how to control their passions, how to deal with the evil in their soul, how to get along with other people, how to respect authority. They need all of these things.

So let me see what my next diagram is here. One, two -- I can’t read my diagram. What did I do here? Oh, OK. I put that one on the board already, and I have one more for you. Hold on. I’m almost finished. Is this the first tape for this message? Yeah, OK. OK, what is this that I have for you? OK, I guess I did this twice. I just want to show you the -- unless I read this wrong. OK.

OK, I just put on here -- I don’t know why I did this twice. I just showed that this is a godly soul tie with the child. When the parent is in Christ and has a soul tie with the personality of the child, that is a godly soul tie. Oh, I think I know what I did here. OK, I’m going to let that go. Yeah, I think what I was trying to show on the -- well, on the other drawing that I had on the board, was that -- well, let me put it back on. Can I take this off the board? And I’ve -- I forgot to tell you something.

OK, in this personality, where the parent is under the influence of Satan, and that just means their carnal mind, and there’s a false personality set up over here, a false front, we see Satan coming across here to strengthen this false personality. And I did mention it earlier, that Satan in the child kicks in and hooks up with Satan in the parent. Satan in the parent hooks up with Satan in the child, and Satan in the child, who is not broken, but actually being strengthened by Satan in the parent, comes along and supports this false personality. I mentioned it before. And the reason Satan is supporting the false personality is that, when that -- for that false personality to come down, it would develop Eve. It would develop the mind and the conscience and the creativity, and Satan would be broken.

So Satan’s out for himself. He’s hooking up with the wickedness in the parent to destroy the mind and the creativity of this child, so that Satan can be free and so that the parent can be satisfied through this false personality. And that is called an ungodly soul tie between a parent and a child. An ungodly soul tie between a parent and a child, they conspire -- of course, this is all unconscious, brethren. Satan and the child and the ungodly motives in the parent conspire to sacrifice the creativity of the child, so that Satan and the child can have free -- as free expression as possible, and so that the parent can be satisfied with the false personality that is erected.

I have a little bit more here. Are you OK? It all seems to be a strenuous teaching tonight. OK, let me just take a look at what else I have here for you. That which comes out of Satan is tyranny, control and control of mind, and he therefore controls the soul and the body. Satan’s evil is expressed on all three levels. He -- when he’s in power, the child has a weak conscience, or the man has a weak conscience. He is aggressive, and he has an aggressive and a manipulative personality, and he misuses the body, either sexually or with substance abuse.

Brethren, when you look at someone with a manipulative, seductive personality, someone who’s involved in the misuse of their body, you should know that as a child, Satan was not broken. The chances are excellent that the child -- that the ministry of the parent to the child was not in Christ, that Satan was not broken, that the creativity was not developed, that the conscience was not developed, and that that manipulation and seduction is a false personality that is not accurately reflecting the person’s mind, which is probably childish, immature and fearful.

Now, just in defense of the parents, I want to put on this message that, you know, all of us, we’re doing the best we can. You know, we have a world full of people that don’t know about these things. They’re just doing what their parents did to them. That’s why we need Christ. A lot of people, doing the best they can for their children, ruin them, because they’re just doing what was done to them. They just don’t know. They just don’t know. And if anyone’s hearing this message, and you hear yourself in this message, you’ve got to forgive your parents. You’ve got to forgive your parents. They’re -- they’ve been just as victimized as you have been victimized. You’ve got to forgive them.

[1:30:38.7 AUDIO CUTS OUT]

[1:31:04.2] -- -timized. You’ve got to forgive them.

OK, I’m going to read you this note. I pretty much told you this already, but let me read it to you. The alternative for Satan being in control -- and you know Satan’s in control when your life is not in order, when your relationships aren’t in order. If you’re in any form of addiction or substance abuse, any co- -- form of compulsive behavior, in some measure, your mind is not dealing adequately with Satan in your emotions. And your mind, which is your conscience, stands between Satan, your unconscious mind, and your sel- -- and your emotions. And it’s supposed to be com- -- ruling and working them all together for you to have a healthy life.

So, the healing or the help for a person in this condition is to break the power of Satan and bring forth a manifestation of an imperfect Christ mind. And why do I say an imperfect Christ mind? Because no one’s perfect in this hour, but there is such a thing as an imperfect Christ mind. What is that? A mind which has been trained in morality and in the Scripture, which has been made strong in righteousness, although not perfect, Who is continuously breaking the power of Satan and dealing with the emotions and overcoming any godly expression thereof. That is an imperfect Christ mind. And have that Christ mind rule over Satan and limit him for that person’s lifetime. The strength we have to limit Satan in our lives is both hereditary and learned.

Now, when I was in college, and I took psychology, I was taught that there was a big controversy between the nature and the nurture theory. There are some psychologists that say you -- you’re -- you are what you are because of what you were born with, what you inherited from your parents, and then there are those that were trying to say at the time that I was in school that you’re born with a clean slate. I reject that, and I believe that it’s a combination of the two. I believe your hereditary is very important, that we’re born with all kinds of curses and problems, but also, what happens in our lifetime can make us or break us.

So, what have we here? The true self is the mind, and the mind develops as we grow. The ego or the image or the soul is where our emotions are, and in these two, we have awareness of feeling, expression of feeling and containment of feeling, but denial of feeling is a perversion. You see, you can contain your feeling. You can say, I feel hurt, but I’m not going to let it cause me to do something destructive. Denial of feeling is perversion, and it results in destruction to one’s life, to one’s relationships, and it is not good. It is not a good thing to do.

Satan -- in Satan, we see lust for power, domination and control, and it is the mind, which is our true self, which inhibits lust from manipulating our emotions. See, Satan in our unconscious mind is trying to manipulate the emotions of our soul to make our body do something that will gratify him but will be destructive to us. And our mind, our true self, which is our conscience, is right in the middle, legislating between Satan and the emotions. The carnal mind must be modified -- oh, in this world system, which is hell, the only hope for us is that the carnal mind is modified by Christ.

You’ve read about that fire that’s in hell. We’ve done a lot of talking about that here, that the fire in hell is God. It’s down here with us all the time. If the fire of God was not here as a restraining force, life would be, you know, much, much worse than it is. So the fire of God is down here. It’s been given to men. We have the opportunity to lay hold of it and use it to restrain Satan, both in our minds and in our emotions and in our behavior. Satan must be restrained by the fire in hell. That’s why it’s burning so intensely. God wants us to have the best life possible while we’re down here, and the act of fire modifying the carnal mind, which is hell -- the carnal mind is hell -- is called judgment. When the fire of God comes to your carnal mind to modify it, to say you cannot continue to think this way, you cannot continue to do this destruction, it is called the judgment seat of Christ.

OK, I just have a few comments here on physical punishment as -- well, I have some comments here on how we break Satan. Physical punishment is mentioned in the Scripture, to break Satan by paddling our children in the areas described by the Lord. Pain to the body inhibits Satan in the mind. This is a great mystery, but this body is an expression of Satan. This body is not an expression of Christ. This is a fallen body, and when pain is ministered to it, it weakens the ra- -- the rebellion that is in Satan and the control and every other wicked thing that’s in Satan. Now, the psychiatrists today are pretty much teaching -- they’re pretty much in agreement that physical punishment should not be ministered because it breaks their creative spirit, but as we’ve mentioned today, we found out that that’s not true. Fin- -- physical punishment to the body of the child breaks Satan, and when Satan is broken, the creative spirit or the wonder child is released and freed up.

So, what we see in the society today is parents who have been instructed and under the influence of a strong mind control to not physically discipline their children. And when their children act up, which children will do, because it’s normal, being br- -- ma- -- brainwashed to not use physical discipline, they verbally discipline them. And the verbal discipline is abuse. I want to tell you, brethren, to see your child doing something wrong and to give them a hit on their buttocks and have that discipline over with is much less grievous to a child than to be verbally rebuked. Verbal rebuke damages the soul and destroys a child’s self-image.

So we see adults in this country realizing that it’s po- -- really impossible to not have any form of discipline to use upon your children, because children are unrestrained, and they’ve been brainwashed to not use the traditional wooden spoon or paddle, so I -- wherever I go, wherever I go, I hear women abusing their children. “What’s wrong with you? I told you not to do that. I’ve told you four times. What’s the matter with you?” Utterly destroying the children’s self-image. “Aren’t you stupid? Don’t you understand what I said?” So we see a reversal -- another reversal in our society, bringing great destruction upon our children, and eventually, the whole society.

Now, verbal punishment is spiritual punishment. Spiritual punishment, coming from the carnal mind, destroys. Spiritual punishment coming from Christ gives life. Now there is such a thing as a godly rebuke. Of course, it wouldn’t say, you’re stupid, but there is a godly rebuke coming and a strong spirit of rebuke coming from Christ, which will break the power of the carnal mind and Satan and impart life to the person. But, by and large, children and adults should be disciplined in kindness. They should not be hit in anger. They should be told that they have done something that is not acceptable and that the -- and that they must -- there will be a consequence to their actions. And they should be paddled, and they should be set free with hugs and kisses and love.

Verbal reprimands that destroy the soul, coming from the carnal mind, should not be, but then we see the judgment seat of Christ coming forth in the earth today, Christ coming forth with strong rebuke, not only to children, but I can’t really speak for everybody, but I don’t see the judgment seat of Christ coming forth to children. I see children in a godly household disciplined as I just described, physically disciplined with love and explanation as to what’s expected from them. But adults that have grown up without have Satan broken really have a problem, and the judgment seat of Christ comes with a strong verbal rebuke. It’s a spiritual rebuke, and if it’s in Christ, it’s not only acceptable to God, but it will produce the peaceable fruit of righteous.

So we see the people who are in a position ordained by God to give discipline, parents or any other form of authority, when Christ is not in them, the physical discipline seems to work best when you have authority to do it. Now I -- this is a very touchy issue. I don’t want anyone hearing this message and telling them that I’m going out to beat -- that I’m telling them to go out and beat people up. When you have an authority over -- oh, I guess, basically, children -- when you have a God-given authority to implement physical discipline, that seems to be what works best. When there is no -- when you’re in a situation or a relationship where physical discipline is not ordained of God -- and I guess the only physical discipline that I know of is from parent to child -- so when you’re in a relationship where you have authority, but physical discipline is not allowed by God, then all that you have is the verbal rebuke of Christ, and you hope for the spirit of righteousness.

Now, there’s one more -- there is one more condition, and that is in other societies. We don’t have it in this society, but in the society that existed in this country when it was first raised up, we had physical discipline. With the Quakers, they had physical discipline. They had the dunking chair and the stocks, and they were Christians. And I believe -- oh, boy, they’re really going to get me on this one, but I want to tell you what I believe. I’m not doing it. I’m not into physically disciplining people. I’ve never done it in my life, but I believe where it’s acceptable, where the society accepts it, that the person who’s damaged because they have a background like we’ve been talking about for the last hour and a half -- that if you could put physical discipline together with verbal discipline in Christ, that they will recover from their spiritual infirmity twice as fast. But in this society, it’s not acceptable.

Does anyone not understand what I’m talking about? When you get an adult who’s out of control because they had an experience, as we’ve talked about on this message, where they can’t control their passions, where their conscience is weak, where their behavior is self-destructive and their life is in great disaster, what we -- the condition that we have now is we -- I have to wait for God to bring them in here and plant them here, and then I deal with them as best as I can. It takes a long time. It takes a long time. And I believe that, in a society where it would be acceptable to have physical discipline as well as spiritual discipline, that people would recover twice as fast. And I believe that that is the word of God, and I believe that there is heavy judgment coming upon this nation and that it’s God’s equivalent of the physical discipline. And when the people come under the physical discipline of infirmity or whatever it’s going to be, coming from God, they’re going to receive the spiritual correction twice as fast. It just works that way.

Oh, they’re really going to get me on this message. I know it. Don’t anybody listen to this message and go out and start hitting anybody or physically attacking anybody. God’s going to take care of everything. Does everybody here understand what I just said? In this society, it’s just not acceptable. Physical correction is not acceptable, even for our children. We’re getting the whole -- I -- women -- I find women who are afraid to discipline their children. They’re afraid someone’s going to call the child abuse on them.

Glory to God.

OK. Let’s see. OK, let me just read you this note. I’m pretty sure I covered this, but I’ll read it to you, and we’ll close this out. When parents attempt to form the image in the child’s soul or to form a personality in their own image, they are actually rejecting the personality of the child and forming an image in that child which is engraved from the outside instead of from the inside. The child’s mind or -- which is spirit, rebels against the invasion of its rights and wages a warfare against the parent, which leaves the soul, the emotions and the personality without a controlling factor. The result is a child that is uncontrollable. The spirit rebels, the imposed self-image rejects, and the soul and the emotions and the personality is out of control and begins to, in many instances, act out.

And let me -- I’ll just take a couple of minutes to talk about acting out. Acting out is when you -- a human being loses control of themselves. For example, someone’s very, very angry and starts punching somebody, screaming and yelling and punching somebody. They had -- their emotion has been expressed physically, and we find some people filled with murderous thoughts, and they may not go out and murder somebody, but they may do something very destructive. They may try to get them to lose their job or have very -- say destructive and hurtful things towards them. A spirit of murder does not have to physically take up a knife and kill your body. A spirit of murder can go against your soul or against your spirit. It can give destructive advice, and all of this is acting out of aggression.

Now this aggression, which is in everybody -- it comes out of Satan and the carnal mind -- it’s supposed to be dealt with by the mind and the conscience. It’s supposed to be confessed and repented of and turned over to Christ. And, once again, those of us that are just denying it and repressing it and pushing it down -- the day is going to come that it is going to explode. We cannot continue to repress and deny our true feelings.

Narcissism is what the church world calls Bible schizophrenia, and narcissists are Pharisees. Oh, I found some more diagrams. What is this? OK, split in Christ. Wow. I see. What I’m saying is that everything that I’ve told you about, with the false self opposing the true self being perverse, we find the same situation occurring when Christ starts to appear in us. We find Christ is another self, and Christ has nothing whatsoever to do with the mind that we were born with, and so we see a split personality or a double-mindedness in the person that has both Christ and the carnal mind. But in this instance, it’s not perverse. It’s godly. Why? Because Christ is doing it, and I want to suggest to you, brethren, that when those of us that are moving into Christ get a real look at what the -- at what we really are -- when we get a real understanding of who we are in Christ, this carnal mind of ours is going to cease to exist.

Let me make that clearer to you. In the person that has the false personality, when they look and they see their true heart and what they really are, the false personality will fall away. Brethren, when Christ starts to rise in you, and you see who you really are in Christ, your human personality, no matter how well-adjusted it may be for this world system, which is hell -- when you see who you really are in Christ, and I’m not talking about any Pharisaical  good works, but when you see who you really are in Christ, your false personality, which is your carnal mind, is going to cease to exist. And, of course, there’s a warfare between Christ and the carnal mind for us to see who we really are in Christ. Glory to God.

I showed you this one already, this ungodly soul tie. OK, well, I’m going to read you this note. I think I just said it, but I’m going to read you this note. When our self-image sees our true self, our self-image dies. And this is what happens in the myth of Narcissus. That’s where the word narcissism came from. It’s a story of a, I believe, a Greek god or a Greek young man called Narcissus, who when he saw his image died. Well, when we see our true self, our carnal mind is going to die. Glory to God.

So let me review split personality and multiple personality for you. Split personality is a mi- -- is a personality whose mind contradi- -- or, I’m sorry, whose self-image contradicts what the mind is. A multiple personality is a person who has more than one whole personality, and schizophrenia, psychiatric schizophrenia, is a break with reality. The narcissist is acting out all the time. He’s got this false front up. He’s never his true self, and he’s so into it sometimes, if not most of the time, that he really believes that this false front is himself. He doesn’t -- he stops even seeing his true self because he loses total contact with his true self and his true feelings and his true reactions.

And, for the healthy person, there is a continuous communication between the true self and the -- and their personality and their soul. Like, we might feel afraid and put up a front. You don’t have to let everything hang out and show all your weaknesses to everybody as long as you know what you’re doing. If you’re having a bad moment, and you’re afraid, and you don’t want anybody to know, well, that’s OK as long as you know what you’re doing. The problem is when you start believing that your false front is you, and you start denying your true self. That’s when you get into trouble.

Once an image is established as a dominant force in the personality -- once this parent sets up this false image, and the individual receives it, and it becomes a dominant force in the personality, that false front, by the power of Satan being imparted to it, will repress any feeling that contradicts that false front. The external imposition of an image allows Satan to reign with strength. Once the image is established and the external force withdrawn -- that means from the parent, when the parent’s influence is withdrawn -- Satan in the mind of the child, now grown up, supports that image, and when the image comes down, the mind becomes strong, and Satan is chained.

Feelings -- now this is really important. Feelings are denied by blocking perception. What does that mean? Perception is what you see. How do we deny feelings? We just don’t admit that we see it. We just deny that we see it. You see, if someone’s hurting your child, and you refuse to see that they’re hurting your child, then you don’t have any pain. So there are no feelings to deny. I mean, this denial gets really vicious.

If someone’s incesting you -- if your husband’s incesting your child, and you refuse to believe it, then you don’t have to deal with the pain. Feelings are denied by blocking perception. In the narcissistic individual, action -- that’s what’s happening -- is disassociated from feeling or impulse, which is denied.

Now I want to give you a little -- this is the last thing I’m going to give you. I feel that you -- this is really heavy on you tonight, but I do want to give you this. For example, if someone says something to somebody, and they start shouting -- they become very angry and start shouting -- and you go to the person and say, “What are you shouting about,” the narcissist or the person in denial will say to you, “What are you talking?” -- oh, if the other person has said, “Why are you angry?”, the narcissist says, “Who’s angry?”

“Well, you were just shouting and yelling your head off. I mean, that’s usually what you do when you’re angry.”

And the narcissist will say, “Oh, no, I just thought they couldn’t hear me. So I was talking loud.”

This is classic narcissism, OK, and this is the way the writer of the book that we’re working with expresses it. He says that, in the narcissist, the action, which is the shouting, is disassociated from the feeling. They admitted they shouted, but they wouldn’t admit they were angry. OK? So they do the action, they deny the anger that generated the action, and then they justify what they did by saying, “I thought that person couldn’t hear me, so I was just yelling.” Total fantasy. It’s an existence of total fantasy. They deny the emotion. They deny the motive. They deny that they were angry. They confess they were shouting, but they deny that they were angry, and they make up some excuse for why they were shouting.

It’s a world and a life and an existence of total fantasy, and I want to tell you that if you have this problem and you’re faithfully serving God, in this hour, as the judgment seat of Christ comes forth, He is coming to tear that thing down. Now He may have let you live with it for 20 years, because it wasn’t time, but the white throne judgment has started, and if you’re hearing this message, and if you’ve gotten this far through this message and you’ve got that kind of problem, you better get ready, because Christ is coming to tear your fantasy land down because it doesn’t glorify him. The denial of true feelings and the denials of motives and understanding that when one is angry and aggressive, it does not glorify God, and He is coming to rid you of it. So prepare yourself.

Denial of motives, which comes from the mind, brings destruction to the soul. And then, when one justifies one’s behavior while denying the motive, it is a perverse condition of your mind. Self is mind. A split personality is a double-minded person. This condition is the carnal mind -- in the carnal mind -- is perverse and destructive. This condition of double-mindedness, which exists because Christ has caused you to split between Christ and your carnal mind, this condition is on the road to mental and spiritual health.

Any questions on this message? This has been an incredible evening. Any questions on this message? OK, just please take the microphone.

When Rita was playing the music earlier tonight, I just felt the Lord saying to me, I -- I’m making the insane sane, not even knowing that you were going to even preach on anything like this.

Yeah, well, let me just comment on that. You know, insanity, according to our psychiatric community, insanity is the absence of normalcy. So, what we have in this society -- we’re living in a crazy society today. Everything’s backwards. Everything’s upside down. And, according to them, according to this rule, which says that insanity is someone who’s not in sync with the norm, we’re all insane, leaving -- leading a holy life and serving God. We’re the insane ones, according to this society. Just listen to the news. They think we’re nuts.

But I think what God was saying to you was, He’s going to turn everything around. I think it’s true on an individual level, that those who have insanity, who are in Christ and truly have a measure of insanity, He’s going to turn their world upside down. He’s going to make them sane, and He’s going to make this world sane. He’s going to show who’s truly sane and who’s truly insane.

            We’re all insane.  I think we’re insane [INAUDIBLE].

Anybody else?

Well, there seemed to be a lot of relation to child and the parent in this whole situation. There was a person by the name of Spock. I don’t know if you recall that person. What would you -- what would your opinion be as to what he developed there? What -- was that demonic?

You mean, this doctor? Well, it didn’t come out of the Bible. It contradicts everything that the Bible says, and we’re seeing the results of it in our children today. And I have the greatest compassion for that man. I’ve been praying for years. I wasn’t always a goody-goody. I’ve done my share of ungodliness in this world. Only God knows that, but I’ve been praying to the Lord for a long time now, since I came to God, let me just -- let me -- I’d rather be persecuted. I’d rather be the one that’s persecuted than be the vessel of dishonor. I’d rather be the persecuted one. Don’t let me do any more harm.

And I want to tell you, I would not want to go down in history as being the man who ruined a whole generation of kids. I really -- I’m sure, in his mind, he thought he was doing the right thing, but -- and I’m not condemning this man, but I’m making a statement, in my opinion, the result of his theories has brought destruction into this society and into this nation. And I would rather be dead than -- at the point, now that I know what I’m doing, I’d rather be persecuted, or I’d rather be dead than go down in history having done that. He’s infamous, you know.

I understand he publicly came out disclaiming -- his methods were wrong.

Did he really?

Yeah, I just saw [INAUDIBLE].


Because [INAUDIBLE]. Now the damage is done, but --

Well, you can --

It was the best he could do.

You cannot, you know, blame him. The pe- -- the real blame -- he was just Satan’s tool. The real blame is every parent that obeyed him and did not obey the Bible. I have the greatest, you know, compassion for this man. I don’t blame him. The people that walked away from God are to blame. Each individual parent, if you followed his teachings, and your kids are messed up, you cannot blame this on Dr. Spock. You have got to repent for not obeying the Scriptural commandments for raising your children. I want to make that very clear. All these psychiatrists and psychologists and nutritionists, and they change -- every 10 years, they change their minds. God doesn’t change His mind. God doesn’t. His word is sound. His word is sound, and what’s happening in this country is that we’re making educated people gods, and it’s killing us.

OK, very good. Can I ask a question, or are you just wanting to have --

Do you suppose that the lack of religious upbringing, you know, more education along the lines of teaching your children, you know, and having the proper education, like this teaching that you’re giving now -- now, this is really not done, is it? I mean, I think, of late, it has been done.

I don’t understand your question, June.

Well, I can’t -- well, with my upbringing, with my relationship with my own family, I can see where I did a lot of damage by shouting and screaming and that. But, maybe, it’s because I never read up on it, or, you know, I just went along and just went by experience, you know, with the first child and the second child and so forth -- that a lot of people did that very thing, and it didn’t --

Yeah, well, that’s all true, and because of that, there’s now no more condemnation in Christ Jesus, but you can’t pass the buck, June. Yeah, every parent, including me, we have to face up to the fact of -- that we did it, that we did not obey the Scripture in the raising of our children, and you have to own up to that, and you have to repent, and then there’s no condemnation, and then you have to -- I’m living with it. I’ve cried many a bitter tear, so I know where you’re coming from, but I’m telling you that you can’t be making excuses for yourself. You did not raise your children scripturally, and neither did your husband. You know, the greater burden is on your husband. The greater burden is on the husband, but the fact is that you, especially you who had access to the Bible, did not raise your children scripturally. So you just have to face it, that’s all, and go on. You have to admit it.

I do admit it. I do admit it, but I was saying that -- is it the majority of people that have done the same thing? You know, that were in a condition that -- now?

I’m not sure. You tell me if I’m wrong, but what I hear you saying to me is -- I hear you making excuses for yourself. Now, if I’m misunderstanding you, please set me straight, but that’s what I hear you saying to me, that you’re justifying it, that you’re admitting it, but you’re justifying what you did.


Am I misunderstanding you?

I just feel that what I did was what a lot of other people did also.


And that’s why the condition of the -- the relationship of the children and the parent now is wrong. You know what I mean? Like --

Oh, yeah.

It’s -- well, it’s insanity. It’s at the point that you were saying before, you know, that the majority of people have done this. That’s all I’m saying.

Oh, is that what you’re asking me, if the majority of people in this society have done it?


Well, it looks that way. The society’s all messed up. It looks to me that it’s the majority of people, yes.

So we followed a pattern without seeking the Lord, and we still do.

We didn’t seek the Lord, yeah. We took the easy way out. But, you see, me, I’m at the point now -- you see, I was a very weak person, and God has made me a pretty strong person, and I feel I’d like to get stronger, but I’m -- I consider myself a strong person at this point. And, coming from a position of strength, my feeling is that it’s much easier to rebuke your children and to paddle their behinds and do it right quick and on the spot and get it over with. It’s much easier, but when I was a weak person, I had a lot of trouble doing that. I couldn’t -- I had a lot of trouble doing that, and I screamed and I yelled a lot. So this comes out of weakness.

The whole society is just getting -- God help us, you know. I think about the judgment that’s going to come on. I said, I don’t even want to think about it. We’re turning into a weak people.

But look at the pattern now, that the schools are coming against the parents for paddling.


So it’s --

It’s still going on. It’s getting worse.


It’s getting worse, but there are people who are obeying God in the midst of all this. So the bottom line is that we’re responsible for not obeying God, and that’s the bottom line. And we can say whatever we want to say, but our kids are in the condition that they’re in because we didn’t obey God. So, we can make any excuses we want for the society, for ourselves, but it’s just like I say all the time. You know, we can make all the excuses we want for Eve’s committing adultery with Satan, but the fact is, she had the baby. You know, we’re here in a fallen condition. She had the baby. So we can say whatever we want to say, but our kids are all messed up, so we must have done something wrong. We didn’t obey God, you know, in the raising of our children.

So that’s the bottom line.

So -- but what’s the answer now? It’s done with, right?

The answer now is they’re out --

You can’t redress it.

They’re out of your hands. You have to let them go. You pray. You confess your sins, and you pray, and you give them to God.


And that’s all you could do. They’re out of your hands.

At one -- you were saying moral development should be put in the child by the parent, correct? Moral development.

Moral development.

And the question that I have is that at one point in the message, you were saying that if the child is put under a strong law of the parent, that they cannot decide in their spirit if they don’t want to fornicate, they don’t want to drink, they don’t want to smoke, but -- so then, I’m asking -- I mean, because moral is what right -- teaching the child right and wrong. So I’m asking where -- how do you reconcile those two things? That the child is doing it from their true personality and not from a false personality, that the parent said, you -- I don’t want you to fornicate. That’s wrong. And that’s teaching moral development. So, where is the line with that? Do you know what I’m saying?

Yes, I do, and it’s a very fine line, and the only way -- the only thing I can say to you now is this, that I believe parents should tell their children it’s -- God does not want you to fornicate. He wants you to wait until you get married and to put -- to press that home, that this is God’s will for you. But where the parent goes over the line, it usually comes into something like this. Every time the girl goes out and has a date, you know, the mother’s questioning her and wanting to know every detail about the date, you know, and it is a --

Did you know this? I just asked the same thing.


Did you know that from experience of talking with people like myself, or did you know that before talking with people, that you knew that the parents actually do that?

I really can’t answer your question, right. I really don’t know the answer. I know I’m tired, and I’ll think about it. It’s not -- I’m not avoiding you. I just don’t have an answer for you, and this is going on a message, so I don’t want to just say anything.


OK, but I know that that’s the difference, where you teach your children the moral thing, and then you let them go. And now, what do you do? Now what’s godly? You say to them, you’re 15 years old. You’re going out on a date. You have to be home by 11:00. That’s godly. When they come in the house, and you grill them -- did he kiss you? How many times did he kiss you? What did you do? That’s going over the line.

            Oh, yeah?

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

            It’s not news to me.

Do you see the difference? Even if you say to your child, you’re 15 years old, and I don’t think that you’re old enough to be out alone with a boy, so if you want to go out with that fellow, you invite him to the house, and you spend your evening in the den. That’s acceptable to God, but to get ahold of that kid and ask them to relate every second of what they did that night, that’s incest, and that -- yeah.

What if it’s done, like, it’s done, sort of, like, manipulatively, unconsciously, that you just feel compelled to tear -- tell the parent everything, although they haven’t really pried you for it?

Well, if that’s what’s happening.

It’s going on anyway because you feel a pressure and compelled to do it.

Well, it’s not going on. You see --

Could that also be some form of them living through you? Or --

Oh, yeah. Yeah, that’s -- that a parent can legitimately put any form of external restraint on their children -- I’m a real reactionary. You know, I’ve -- I don’t think, you know, that young people should be alone together at all or out in cars together at all. That’s what I believe. No one -- very few people agree with me, but that’s my opinion. I’m entitled to my opinion. But as far as I’m concerned, if there was a parent that did that, or if there’s a society that still does that, that says you can’t even hold the girl’s hand until you’re engaged, I don’t consider that ungodly. But to say to the child, yes, you can go out on a date -- yes, you can go in a car -- yes, you can stay out till 2:00 in the morning -- and then grill them when they come home, uh-uh. Do you see the difference? You don’t see the difference? Let me say -- do you see the difference?


You see, it’s a -- it’s legitimate for a parent to put restrictions on relationships, but when the child is old enough to date, a 15-year-old child, you would be better off telling them that you think they’re too young to date than letting go and crossing their personal space like that. It’s not godly.

Where does this compelling come in? I’m just curious.

A compelling to talk?

A compelling to tell the parent everything and, like, want -- just feeling, like, that they’re going to be afraid they’re going to get off somewhere.

Well, that’s a form of witchcraft, a form of subtle witchcraft that’s pulling at the child’s soul, you know. That’s a very wicked kind of thing. I call it -- someone who’s a victim of that, I say they have diarrhea of the mouth, you know.

Can it be possible that -- would -- the child would do it out of fear, and that there’s nothing that the parent is doing?

Do what out of fear?

Just be compelled to talk out of their own fear, that the parent isn’t actually working witchcraft on the child?

I don’t think that’s a normal thing to do. Everybody needs some privacy to --

What makes the child do that then? It’s -- is it definitely rooted in witchcraft in one of the parents?

It’s an ungodly soul tie. Now, it’s -- you see now, there are different -- let me modify this a little bit. There is a situation, in a therapeutic situation, where if the young person has already reached a condition where they really need counseling, then it’s OK. Everything’s the spirit, you see. But I’m talking about a normal situation with a normal child, and I guess, a normal child, and she should be entitled to her privacy. It’s an ungodly soul tie for a 15-year-old young woman to be telling her mother every detail of her date, you know, and that he kissed her 10 times or three times. I mean, that’s not -- it’s really not right. But, then again, if you get a person that’s had some problems in their life, and they’re in a therapeutic situation, even then, you don’t go and tell your therapist everything that happened. You talk about your feelings.

09/13/14 Transcribed by VerbalFusion

09/17/14 1st Edit CAS/BP

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