The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For
Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By
The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.
Prelude: The group has been watching a video from another ministry. Pastor Vitale is giving a running commentary. This message begins with Pastor Vitale's comments on the clip from the video in which a minister has brought forth a prophecy as regards judgment on the United States, and another minister is counteracting the prophecy.
PASTOR VITALE: The reason that God repented in that instance (Exodus 32.14) was Moses typified God's government in Israel at that time, and Moses was holy.
7. And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:
8. They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
9. And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
10. Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.
11. And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?
12. Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.
13. Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.
14. And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
15. And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written. KJV
Who is interceding for the country today? The Church is supposed to be interceding for the country today, but the Church is filled with sin. Do you see any difference? That is why I disagree with him. What he is going to bring on now is another opinion which believes that the Church is okay, and that judgment is falling on the people outside of the Church. The Church is supposed to be the high priest interceding for this nation, but the priesthood is corrupt, and that is why judgment is falling on the priesthood. One brother had a vision of New York burning.
One man has just signed an executive order making live-in-lovers of homosexuals that are public employees eligible, I believe, for medical benefits, something like that. He is giving them the same rights as married couples. If you work for the state and have a wife, your wife gets certain benefits. If you are a homosexual and work in the city and you have a live-in male lover, or if you are woman, and you have a live-in female lover, all you have to do is go register and she is entitled to all of the benefits of the married couple.
Did you hear that? I repeat it. He says, What does the Bible say? Can anybody not see that Demetri quoted the Scripture? He quoted the Scripture as he brought forth the prophecy. The man of God had the greatest respect for him, but listen to what just came out of his mouth! I do not even think he knows that he said it. Talk about suggestion! We have talked a lot about suggestion here.
Now, I really do not believe that he understands what he said, but he just put out a suggestion. This man that has the respectful ears of millions of people has just made a suggestion that what Demetri said was not what the Bible said, and that is not true. First of all, the Bible is not this written word. This book is the Bible, but it is not the Word of God. The Word of God is Spirit. The Word of God is the Living Christ, the Rhema. He said, Let us hear what the Bible says, but everybody assumed that he meant, Let us hear what the Word of God says. Do you hear that suggestion?
COMMENT: He is trying to make everybody comfortable again, right?
PASTOR VITALE: My opinion of what happened from this man of God was that God told him to put Demetri on, and he obeyed. I think he respected him and he gave him an opportunity to speak, but he really does not believe what he said, he really does not believe it.
I want to point out something to you. I have been saying this for a long time now, listen to this, it is important. The minute you do not believe what the prophet of God says (I am not saying that you are evil or your motives are wicked), the minute that anyone of us makes a wrong judgment that, that man meant well but it was not the Spirit of God, the second you make that judgment, your carnal mind is ruling in your mind.
The next thing that happened was the suggestion came out of his mouth that discredited what Demetri said, and it goes into your mind. It is called a subliminal cut. It goes into your mind. You may not even recognize what he said with your ears, because he is talking, he is going on, talking more and more, but it goes right into your unconscious mind. If you are not monitoring what goes into your mind, what is going on in there, and what goes out, if you are not developed or mature enough, spiritually mature enough to the point where you are doing that, it goes right in.
I want to tell you it was a war-head, it was an enemy missile, and it went right into your mind. It is going to land in there and it is going to put down roots and it is going to start to grow. Your mind is a garden, and the thoughts which are spoken out as words, are spiritual seeds that enter into your mind. If you are not engaged in the warfare, if you cannot say to yourself, I heard it, and I reject it, it goes right in, and it roots in.
Then, depending on where your training is (and there is no condemnation in any of this), depending on how mature you are in Christ, if you walk around believing a lie, you may wind up stumbling somewhere along the line. If you do not recognize it, and it gets deep, deep roots, you are going to need a deliverance session to get it out.
God is challenging us in this hour to stand there with a shield, and buff that thing right off. Is that not one of the weapons of our warfare in Ephesians 6?
13. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15. And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16. Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: KJV
We are to stand there with a shield and buff that thing right off, and that is what we are supposed to be doing with our mind. It is a practice, it is a training. If you think I am condemning you, you are mistaken.
COMMENT: You said, that the Word of God is a Living Spirit, right? You do not believe in the Bible?
PASTOR VITALE: I do believe in the Bible but...
COMMENT: That is the only written...
PASTOR VITALE: Right, it is the only written expression of the Spirit of God, so I do believe in the Bible, but it is a reflection of what is spirit and we have trouble understanding spirit down here, so the true Scripture is a spirit that is supposed to be in your heart.
COMMENT: The Bible is the letter of the Word.
COMMENT: I know it was written by man.
COMMENT: Inspired by the Holy Spirit, but there is revelation, the deeper you go into it.
COMMENT: The pastor does deep studies in the Word of God. I do not think she disregards the Word of God.
PASTOR VITALE: I do believe in the Bible, but do you understand what I said, that the Bible is the expression of the Spirit of God? Okay.
What happened was, he really in his heart rejected this prophecy, and the next thing that came out of his mouth was an expression of the spirit that was now exalted in his mind. He did not mean it at all, but the next thing that came out of his mouth was an expression of the spirit that was now exalted in his mind, and it put forth a subliminal cut that expressed his true feeling that what Demitis said was not the truth.
COMMENT: It looked like, in his eyes, that he was in terror too. He looked like he was very scared.
PASTOR VITALE: I want to tell you that it scared me too, you know.
COMMENT: What I feel is that I believe this. A brother told me that he had a dream that America was going to burn, and I believe it, but what do we do?
PASTOR VITALE: The thing that you do is.... I am not telling you to do anything that I do not do everyday. I am walking around daily saying, Father forgive me for my sins, show me every sin that I cannot see, grant me repentance, help me to change, have mercy on me. It just comes out of my mouth all day long. I am telling you, great judgment is falling and those people that are in the secret place.... have you read in the Psalms about the secret place?
1. He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. KJV
Have you read the Psalm that says, Kiss the Son, lest he get angry? If you look all of that up in the Hebrew, those Hebrew words that are translated, Kiss the Son, is really saying, Get really close to him until the indignation passes. That is the rest of the phrase.
12. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. KJV
There is great judgment coming, and the only Christians that are going to survive are those who are clinging to Him in their hearts. There is no place on earth we can run. If this comes to pass that this nation is going to burn, I want to tell you that the only thing that is going to save your life is a mature measure of Christ in your heart.
These Bibles might burn up and the Living Word may be the only thing that we have left to get our hands on. This book, I love this book, and God forbid I should ever lose it, but if the day ever comes that this becomes a military state and they take our Bibles away like they did in Russia, all that is going to be left is what is in our heart. What is in this book has to get inside our heart.
Should it come to pass that this nation burns, whether it be an atomic attack or anything like that, I declare to you, the only thing that is going to keep you alive, is the Christ that is in your heart, that is saving your from the inside, from the inside. Salvation is not coming from out there, it is coming from the Christ that is in you.
Is not the kingdom of God within you? Is not the Holy Spirit within you? Why should Christ be coming from outside of you? Spiritual things are inside of you, and He is growing in you. Does the Scripture not talk about babes in Christ?
1 Corinthians 3:1
1. And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ KJV
1 Peter 2:2
2. As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: KJV
He has to be grown to a certain degree of maturity to sustain this flesh if a great holocaust comes upon us. The Father has to do for us what He did for the man Jesus. When this body loses its life, He has to raise us from the dead.
The challenge in this hour is to have Christ grow up. He is starting as a mustard seed. We are babes in Christ when we start. We are feeding on milk; we have to go on to feed on meat. He is to grow up in us to a measure of maturity that can sustain this flesh no matter what happens to the outside of us, just like Jesus. No matter what happened to the outside of Him, because there was righteousness inside of Him, the Father raised Him from the dead. That is what we are doing in this hour.
However, you cannot become righteous if you cannot confess your sins. In this hour, the bottom line is the confession of sin. Stop looking at your brother outside of you, and start looking at the beam in your own eye. That is the word of the hour. It is the only thing that is going to save our life.
It does not matter what they are doing out there, it does not matter what they did to you. It does not matter how they wound you, how they hurt you. It does not matter because even if every word that you are saying is true, that these people are horrible to you, they hate you, they abuse you, if every word is true, how is that building Christ in you?
On the other hand, if these people are in our life and they are hurting us and they are damaging us, if they are doing all of these things to us and we are crying out, or asking God for the ability to cry out, Father forgive them for they do not know what they are doing, Father have mercy on them, save their souls, these painful experiences that we are having are being used to mature Christ in us to the point that if it comes to pass, He will sustain us.
As it is written, all things work for the good for those who love God.
28. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. KJV
If God is dealing with you in this hour, He is requiring each and every one of us to be as sinless as it is humanly possible to be. You do all you can do to not sin. We have a guideline, it is right here in this book.
What are you supposed to do when someone curses you, and what you are supposed to do when someone hates you, and what you are supposed to do when someone wrongs you? What you are supposed to do is written down right here, there is no question about it.
44. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; KJV
14. Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. KJV
Even if you are not feeling it in your heart, if you are doing everything you can do to do it, at the point that God makes a judgment that you cannot humanly do anymore, He is going to move in and carry you the rest of the way. He is not going to carry you if you do not do your part. You have to get as far up as you can, and then He reaches down and He grabs you.
COMMENT: We live in a material world, it gets very hard for us to be a spiritual person out there. You get hurt a lot, you get hurt, people are....
PASTOR VITALE: People are cruel.
COMMENT: Yes, and I do not know what you are talking about when you say maturity.
PASTOR VITALE: I do not mean to insult you, but, are you a Christian? Do you have any experience with the Lord at all?
COMMENT: I believe in God. I mean, I do not go to Church, I was raised Catholic, and then my father is an evangelist, so I had a lot of influence when I was a kid growing up.
PASTOR VITALE: Okay, it will just help me to answer you if I know what your background is. The maturity that I am talking about is that, Christ is supposed to be formed in you. Have you read the Bible? Are you familiar with the Scripture? Do you remember that Scripture that says that Christ is supposed to be formed in you? Do you remember that Scripture?
19. My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, KJV
We are having many experiences with God, for the purpose that we receive Christ as a seed into our heart, and that he grows into maturity in us. We get people preaching.... Are you familiar with the gifts of the spirit? Is your father Pentecostal?
COMMENT: I do not know, I know he is an evangelist but I do not know what kind.
PASTOR VITALE: Okay, so there are all kinds of spiritual experiences you can have in God, some people receive healing, some people speak in tongues. Do you know what it means to speak in tongues?
COMMENT: I have heard about it.
PASTOR VITALE: Some people have many spiritual experiences, but the purpose of all of those spiritual experiences is that the Spirit of God is supposed to enter into your heart like a seed, and He is supposed to start to grow there, and as He grows, He changes the way you think. That is the maturity that I am speaking about. As He grows, He brings His thinking in to your mind, and that is what we are talking about here.
Right now He is outside of many of us, but He has to get inside of us, because that is the protection from the evil that is coming, even from evil people that hurt you. His heart is your ability to forgive them. His heart is your ability to love them when they are crucifying you. We cannot possibly obey the rules of this book if we do not have His heart. It is not possible.
When I speak about maturity, I am speaking about the degree to which the emotions and the thoughts of Christ are ruling in our hearts and in our minds, because when we respond with the thoughts and the emotions of a human being, it is impossible to do what He has commanded us to do. Is that okay? Okay.
There are several ways in which we mature. We read the word, we hear preaching and we have to confess our sins. We have to confess our sins on a daily basis, if God shows it to us, because we do not even know the sin that is in our heart.
Just the fact that He is God, He is our standard. When we look at His holiness, and when we look at His perfection, we see our imperfection, and imperfection is sin. There is no condemnation, but we must recognize that we are not perfect like God is perfect, and when we confess our sins to Him, He is faithful to help us to become perfect. There is really nothing He can do for us if we cannot confess that we are not up to the standard of Jesus Christ.
If we say that we are not as bad as our brother, or we are not as bad as that guy, what we are saying is it is okay to sin. What we are feeling and what we are thinking and what we are saying is that it is really okay, it is okay to sin. It is not okay.
We have to look at Jesus, and see that we cannot hold a candle to Him, and say, Lord, have mercy on me, because I am a sinner next to you, the Lord Jesus Christ. You are perfect, I am imperfect. You are God, I am a fallen man who is a sinner, and I need help, because I cannot forgive my brother.
When we come into that state of mind, He can work in us. But so long as we are defending ourselves and justifying what we do, there is nothing He can do. When we are in that state of mind, where we are justifying our sins, the Bible says we are at enmity with God in our minds.
The only way He communicates with us under these conditions is through judgment, painful experiences. When we come into the other state of mind where we can say, Father, I confess I am a sinner, help me, then He can help us gently to change.
We were talking about this man's theory or his belief that God will go easy on United States because of our good works. Now listen to what he says. He says that there are many evangelicals in the United States and we have done so much for the world and all of this money is coming through the Unites States to evangelize the world, therefore God will surely go easy on us.
I repeat, I have the greatest respect for this man, but, right now we are supposed to be training for survival. There is a holocaust of a judgment coming on the United States. I am not attacking anybody, but it is my job to train you to listen with your ears and understand what you are hearing.
You have to analyze what you are hearing, What did he say? He said that we are saved by our works. Did you hear it? Did anybody not hear it? He said that we are saved by our works.
Brethren we are not saved by works, we are saved by grace, and what is grace? Grace is Christ in you the hope of glory. We are saved by Christ in us, not Christ out there, Christ in us. He is our hope in this world, Christ in us.
COMMENT: Okay, but what did he say that makes you think he believes we are saved by works?
PASTOR VITALE: He said (and this is his opinion, which he is perfectly entitled to), that he thinks God is going to go easy with judgment on this nation because of all of the evangelicals that are here, and that basically, evangelizing of the world is coming from this nation. That is what he said.
Can anyone not hear what I am saying? You do not have to agree with me but do you understand my analysis? Do you understand what I heard? You do not have to agree with me, you can pray about it. God wants us to develop a critical ear. You have to analyze what you hear because if you do not listen with a critical ear, you are literally, spiritually speaking, swallowing everything that anybody puts on your plate.
Spiritually speaking, you are like a beggar. We are beggars, by the way. God sees us as beggars. Spiritually speaking, we are very poor. I do not care how much money you have, I do not care how brilliant you are, I do not care what you have accomplished in this world, spiritually speaking, we are very poor in God's eyes.
God sees us as a beggar sitting on the street with a plate, and we are eating whatever anybody puts on the plate. You are sitting there like this, and someone comes along and throws something on your plate, and you are shoveling it down.
God wants us to develop a critical ear, listen to what you are hearing with a critical ear and analyze it. Ask God to help you, ask Him to open your mind. Ask Him to open your understanding. Ask Him to show you, because if you are not even trying, you are just slurping in every piece of garbage. I am not insulting this man, but do you take everything that anybody says to you? In your house, or if you go to visit somebody, do you eat anything that they put on your plate?
I remember once, years ago, I was at somebody's house and they put out a piece of bad cheese, and someone in the fellowship said to them, That cheese is bad. The person then said that the cheese is that Limburger cheese, and that it is supposed to look like that. But the cheese was bad, and nobody ate it.
Do you eat everything someone puts on your plate? We have a spiritual eating apparatus, it is our mind, and we have to stop taking in everything that is served in front of us. It is time to start analyzing what you hear. You have to start asking God to help you develop a critical, analytical ear and mind or you are going to get poisoned and you are going to die. It is grow up time.
God is calling the Church to maturity. The Church is maturing. Some people are going to mature more easily than others. Some people are going to get a few broken legs and a few broken arms as they enter into a more spiritual life. If you go from Miami to New York, you have to learn somehow, that you need a coat on, that you cannot be walking around in a bathing suit in this kind of weather.
We are moving into a spiritual age, and there are things that you need to learn to survive in this spiritual age, and one of the things is that our mind eats. Our mind eats, and its food is in the form of words. You better start picking and choosing what you take into your mind, or you are going to get stomach ache.
Does anybody misunderstand me? Does anybody think I am attacking this man? I love him, I really do, but even if I did not love him, I am not attacking him.
I just want to take a few minutes to give you the opportunity to try the spirit on the next man that he puts on who is giving you the Bible. One man says that there is going to be burning fiery judgment. This man says that there is going to be blessings from God. Check it out, listen. Do you see the intellectual spirit on him? He did not once say anything along the lines of the Lord spoke to me, the angel of the Lord spoke to me, God said.... Did you hear him mention the Lord once?
I say this with all respect for this man. You have got to learn to hear this. Did he give any credibility or authority to God in anything that he has said so far? It is all man's understanding of the Scripture. I cannot see any move of the spirit on him, I really cannot. I really cannot perceive it, but aside from discerning the spirit (not everyone has discerning of spirits), everyone that speaks English can hear his words, and he has not mentioned God once.
This is all man's understanding of the Scripture, head knowledge, high head knowledge. The man has got a PhD. Again, I want to say I believe with all my heart that he is doing everything he can to be a fair man. I do not believe he has any idea of what we are finding out here that he did, but, he is saying, Oh I believe this one and I do not believe that one.
Are there any questions on what I just said. We will watch a few minutes and see if he mentions God at all. He says, I believe so, I think so, I expect.
[I feel like that man on TV that puts a little thing in the corner of the TV with his comments as they are talking.]
He is not a spokesman for God. The other man was a spokesman for God. It really does not matter what man thinks, the only thing that matters is what God thinks. I am pointing out that he is not a spokesman for God. That is my whole point.
Does everybody see the contrast. We have an uneducated man (I would be shocked if that man graduated high school, I would be shocked), but the Spirit of God is resting heavily upon him. All of this wisdom, and all of this knowledge is coming forth from a Christ that is in his mind and in his heart. Then here, we see the exact opposite, a man who is highly educated by men, he has a degree that is granted by men, a PhD degree, and he did not mention God's name once. He had all of the answers.
Does anybody have any questions or comments on this area? This is what we see in the Church today. It is man's Church and they have locked, in many areas, the Spirit of God out. They do not want to hear what He has to say, or if they do listen to what He says, they reject the Spirit of God in favor of the high intellectual mind of man. This is why judgment is about to fall on this nation.
The people of this nation that do not have a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ have been betrayed by the priesthood in this country. The Church is supposed to be standing as intercessor for the entire nation as Moses did for the nation of Israel. We are worse than the world because we are supposed to know better.
COMMENT: What are those three Scriptures in Hosea that he was talking about?
1. Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2. After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
3. Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth. KJV
PASTOR VITALE: He is talking about the three days, after which the Lord will raise us up. The Scripture does not say it, but, it means full stature. The people who understand the Scripture who believe in the letter of the Scripture, believe our bodies are going to be taken up.
COMMENT: Is he talking of the letter then?
PASTOR VITALE: I do not think so. I do not believe he has a deep doctrinal understanding, but I believe he has a deep spiritual understanding. The Scripture says that we will stand before God, and that means the resurrection. Our true reality, that part of us which is spirit, is now dead, and when you are dead you lie down, do you not? The Scripture describes us as lying down in a bed. We are dead, we are sick, but in the third day, in the third spiritual day, we shall rise from the dead, and stand. What does that mean, to stand before God? It means to stand face to face with God.
COMMENT: Yes, but he said it in relation to when this fiery judgment comes.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, because he did not know the answer. I mean, nobody knows the day. Jesus clearly said that nobody knows the day. I want to tell you that when they asked him that question, my ears really went up, because I am very suspicious of people that name dates.
COMMENT: But he said he did have some information that he could not share.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, but he did not say that it was dates, and if it is, I am very suspicious. Any exact date that has been given, to the best of my knowledge, has always been wrong in this current day and age.
COMMENT: They were asking him when the Russians were going to attack, and he said, he had some information, basically.
PASTOR VITALE: All that I can say to you is that he did not say what that information was. Be careful, do not assume it was the dates, because we really do not know, we really do not know.
Notice, please, how Scriptural this encounter was, saying, And when will these come to pass? The prophet did not say March of 1993. He said, The Scripture says, One day and then two, and in the third day we will stand before the Lord.
36. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. KJV
When the disciples said, When shall these things come to pass? Jesus said, No man knows the day, only my Father in heaven knows the day, but you can see the signs of the times.
Matthew 24:3-4, 36
3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
36. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. KJV
That was how He answered, He answered in a parable, and as far as I am concerned, His answer was perfect.
I perceive a heavy hand of the Spirit on him. I did not really quite understand what he said about America being the golden cup. I will have to listen to it again, although I have listened to it three times already, and that part when he talked about America being the golden cup, he did not say, Thus saith the Lord. He said that was his understanding of it, I think, but I am not sure. In any event, can you see the difference in the two men?
COMMENT: These ministers that are preaching it, for instance the minister that is in New York City, said he saw New York City burning, and I know one brother that said that America is going to burn, that Russia is going to attack America. That was the first time I ever heard it.
The question has always been in the back of everybody's mind, is this ever going to happen, is it going to happen? A lot of people have thought about this, you do not even have to be a Christian to think about it. People in the world have thought about this, right?
But now there are people that are saying that God is telling them this is going to happen, either they have a dream or a vision, and now it is all adding up. I have heard this brother that is a minister in the City say it, and now this guy. I believe it is true, but they are saying, Get out of America, Just get out, physically get out of America. How could everybody just leave America or leave even the state?
PASTOR VITALE: It is going to touch the whole world. The primary thrust of the judgment may be on America, but the whole world is going up in smoke. There is no place to run and God's people are not to run. We are to take the victory. God's people are not to run, we are to stand, to root in under His instruction, and take the victory.
COMMENT: Are we not supposed to get into the ark?
COMMENT: Yes, but that is physical, this is...
PASTOR VITALE: No, no, no, Jesus is the ark.
COMMENT: In those days it was physical, right?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, but there is no physical place that you are supposed to run to. There is no place in the world that you can run to.
COMMENT: But if you are not in full stature and you are in the City when it happens, and there are bombs, and the City blows up in smoke, you would die.
PASTOR VITALE: You have to believe that if God is protecting you, either He would give you a miracle or He would give you a word of knowledge to get out of the city. But you do not run of your own accord, you do not run out of panic. You stand still and listen for the instruction of God. I really have to reject that counsel to leave America, because if God has ordained that you are going to die, it is going to happen to you wherever you go. There is no place to run from God.
COMMENT: If something happens it is going to be a nuclear war, I mean the whole world is going to be involved.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, there is no place to run. I do want to give you something else to think about. It is obvious that these judgments are, in some measure, coming to pass physically, but I do not know whether they will all be physical or not.
I shared this with you before, but I will repeat it because everybody was not here. I did have a word of wisdom from the Lord a couple of weeks ago, that somebody was going to strike me and then a series of events would follow that. He told me how I was to react to that assault. I really believed it was a physical assault that was coming upon me and I prepared myself for it, and it turned out to be a spiritual assault.
I am not saying this is not true. All that I am saying is, let us not jump to conclusions. There is still a possibility that there will be some physical burning, but there will definitely be spiritual burning. What is burning up in our spiritual being? Our carnal mind is burning up. The fire of God, which is Christ, is burning up our carnal mind.
If it happens that there is burning in the streets also, well then, there is burning in the streets also, but the only thing that really matters is that our carnal mind is going into the lake of fire which means we will appear in full stature, stand before the Lord in full stature, as Demetri said.
Now that we see some signs that there may be physical burning, let us not leave all of the spiritual understanding behind us, and run off into a panic, because in my opinion, (and you are entitled to yours, but hear this too), in my opinion, the spiritual manifestation must come to pass. There must be a company of people whose carnal mind is burnt up in the lake of fire, which is Christ, and that is the rising to full stature. It is the resurrection of the dead.
If this spiritual experience is expressed in the outside world by burnings and fires, that is up to God. I am still preaching the same thing that I have been preaching here for five years. There is no place you can run, and that is a very childish reaction to spiritual truth. I am sorry, I do not mean to insult anybody, but I am supposed to be getting you ready for this. That is a very childish reaction to spiritual truth.
God says, Stand still and see the salvation of the Lord, and the work that is going to save our life is not the running away which will preserve our body. The work which will save our life, is the resurrection of the dead human spirit within us. When that happens, if it is true that the world burns, if it is true that it is a nuclear holocaust, we will walk through it. It may not be that severe.
I am not saying it is not going to be, do you understand me? There may be some burning out there, looting, riot. Let us not jump to the conclusion that it is going to be a nuclear holocaust. It may be, but it may not be. One thing I know for sure, the carnal minds of men are going into a spiritual nuclear war. It is called the lake of fire. That I know for sure.
The word of the Lord from this man Demetri, was that there was burning coming on New York or California, Florida, and Nevada. That does not sound like a nuclear holocaust, because if we get hit with a nuclear warhead, it is the whole country that is going up.
Please follow me how I am analyzing this, you do not have to believe it. Just watch how my mind is working here. Now since he named four isolated areas, I would be inclined to believe that there may be physical burning in four isolated areas, but he did not say anything about the burning of America.
Think for a minute, I am going to repeat it. He said fire in New York, California, Florida, and Nevada. Then what did he say about the whole country, what did he say about the whole country, does anybody remember? He said, severe judgment on the whole country, but he did not say what it was.
COMMENT: He did say that it would happen, that Russia will attack those areas with fire, burning.
PASTOR VITALE: You have to be very careful. I am not telling that I disagree with him, I am just telling you to be careful.
COMMENT: You are not disagreeing with the fact that those areas would be attacked with bombs?
PASTOR VITALE: My feeling is that there will be burning in those areas, and there has been already, and my feeling also is that I am being very cautious, as I would be with any prophecy, even one that comes from me. We have to be very careful that we do not cross over that very thin line where the Word of God ends and the interpretation of the prophet begins.
COMMENT: Was there not already burning in California and were they not bombs?
PASTOR VITALE: No, there was a riot.
COMMENT: Oh, there was a riot. This man specifically said, Russia.
PASTOR VITALE: I have been teaching you this here for a long time. We are all imperfect human beings, and one of the greatest dangers of prophecy is that we hear the prophecy and either the person hearing it draws conclusions and wrong interpretations of it, and sometimes the prophet bringing forth the prophecy puts some of his own soul into it. I am not in any way discrediting this man. I am trying to survive being a fallen human being. I am trying to teach you how to survive being a fallen human being.
I want to tell you that at this point, what I have received in my heart from this man is that there will be judgment on the United States. I believe those four areas will be hit. Whether or not it is by Russia or a Middle East nation, I am not convinced, and I will tell you why. I will tell you why I think this way. You can make up your own mind.
I remind you that this man has been probably subject to a lot of the teaching in the Church, and the teaching in the Church is when they read in Ezekiel for example about the enemy coming from the north, do they not teach that it is Russia? This is traditional teaching in the Church. Personally I do not believe that it is Russia. There is a possibility, and I am going to pray about this, but God may not answer me.
God may not answer me, but I want to tell you that you have to pray about this before you make up your mind, that it is a possibility that somehow when this Word of God flowed through this man's mind, which is filled with this teaching that Russia is the enemy from the north, or Gog and Magog from the north, that God was saying to him, the attack is coming from the north, and it came out of his mouth as the attack is coming from Russia.
I want to tell you I have seen these errors occur. Do you understand what I am saying? What I have got out of this is that judgment is falling on America, there is no question in my mind about it. I am inclined to believe those four geographical areas will have tragedy. I am inclined to believe that. I believe that judgment is falling because the Church will not repent. I believe that.
The man was very careful to not give the exact date, but I wonder, and I am not saying he is wrong, I wonder if God really told him that it was Russia and a Middle East nation. I wonder if that was not a little thought from his Church teaching that snicked in, underlying with the prophecy.
COMMENT: Why was the question asked, When will it be? Why should that have been asked, when he knew in his own mind that God did not intend for the specific day to be known. Why would he ask that question?
PASTOR VITALE: It was a carnal question.
COMMENT: He was frightened, he was frightened.
PASTOR VITALE: I was frightened, and I want to tell you what my prayer was. Maybe you want to pray the same prayer, if you want to. I want to tell you what my prayer was as soon as I got scared.
My prayer was, Father, judgment must fall in this nation because you are a holy God, and we are filled with sin. Whatever you decide to do, I know that it is righteous, so you do it. My pray is that you do it and whatever you have ordained should touch me of this judgment. I just pray that you are not ashamed of me in that hour, that I should not be a coward.
That is my prayer, and I want to tell you the fear left. I do not like pain, I do not like pain. Whatever He is going to let happen to me, there is nothing I can do about it, but I can pray.
COMMENT: That is true.
PASTOR VITALE: My faith is in God. I am doing everything He has taught me. I am doing the best that I can, confessing my sins five times a day (but not in a religious ritual, it is just coming up out of my spirit), praying, God have mercy on me and keep me and my daughter and those that I am responsible for as this holocaust comes upon the earth. It is coming up right out of my spirit. My faith is not in myself or my knowledge or my doctrine. It is in God, He has to have mercy on me.
COMMENT: We are going to be hit first, because of the fact that judgment begins at the house of God, which is the priesthood.
PASTOR VITALE: What did you just say? The priesthood?
COMMENT: The priesthood.
PASTOR VITALE: What does that mean?
PASTOR VITALE: They are not amongst the priesthood company. They are doing a fine job in the area that God has assigned them to, but they are not in the priesthood company.
COMMENT: They just invited this man of God in, but it was not the priesthood?
PASTOR VITALE: God must have told them to do it.
COMMENT: He did lead us to believe now that, that this man had a vision of Russia attacking United States, it was not just from what the Bible says in Ezekiel. He led us to believe that it was a vision, and I have also talked to other people who have had dreams that it was in fact Russia that attacked.
PASTOR VITALE: I have a problem with that, but if it turns out that I am wrong, then I will be wrong.
COMMENT: Can you explain who you feel it is then, or...
PASTOR VITALE: I am going on something that I believe God said to me. I am the first one to tell you (not only about the other people of God, but of me too), that you have to be very careful with these visions and these words of wisdom.
I could be wrong, but I believe that God said to me about five years ago, that heavy judgment was coming on the nation, but that he was not turning us over to another foreign nation. He said that the judgment would be spiritual, and I believe that is what He told me, and I am walking in that. We will see. If I am wrong, I am wrong, but that was what He told me.
I believe, to date, that the judgment is going to be disease, and financial disaster and rioting in the streets, and children rising up against their parents, and anarchy and chaos and murder in the streets, and then the sons of God will appear. The sons of God will stand up in full stature and when the sons of God stand up in full stature.... Does anybody remember what they are going to do on behalf of the people? We had this on a recent tape.
They are going to make the sacrifice. There is no sacrifice in the Church today. There is no sacrifice on behalf of the sins of the people in the Church today. Everyone is screaming in the spirit, What are you talking about? Jesus is our sacrifice!
The man Jesus the Christ, could have lived forever as the man Jesus the Christ because His mind was Christ and therefore He was without sin. However, He gave up that life as Jesus the Christ. He gave up that existence so that the Father could raise Him up to a higher spiritual form, our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorified Lord Jesus Christ.
In spirit form He is now pouring out of His Spirit upon all humanity. He is getting inside of our hearts, and when He gets inside of our heart, He is reproducing the nature of God in our hearts. The nature of God, brethren, is without sin, and it is this sinless heart that is going to destroy our sin filled heart and we shall become righteous. That is the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ, but the sacrifice for our sins is the reproduction of Himself in us.
I want to tell you something. Jesus died for the whole world, but the only people who are being saved by the sacrifice of the man Jesus of Nazareth are those people in whose heart He has entered into, and in whose heart He is reproducing Himself in. The people who are being saved by His sacrifice are those people in whose heart Christ Jesus, and the nature of God, is being formed. Jesus made a sacrifice for us and now the sacrifice has to do its work in us.
Does anybody not understand this? It is like saying we have electricity in this house, and if you do not turn the lights on, you are going to be in the dark. Jesus made a provision for us. We are dying, and there is an antidote for this death. If we lay hold of the antidote and drink it, we will live. If we do not drink it, we are going to die.
He did something for us, now His life has to get inside of us. It has to be reproduced in us. Christ in us is the hope of glory. Christ in us, the kingdom of God in us, is going to save our souls and our bodies. What He was when He was on the earth in the days of His flesh, must be reproduced in us.
The sacrifice for your sins is your carnal mind. Your carnal mind is the beast, your carnal mind is the beast. When Jesus pours out of the realm of the spirit and He gets into your heart and He brings forth Christ in you the hope of glory, Christ in you is going to lay hold of the beast in you and sacrifice Him unto Jehovah.
There is no sacrifice in the Church today on behalf of the people's sins. What does this mean? There is no priesthood company, by and large, there is no high priesthood company (they are just starting to flicker), that is going to God's people showing them their sins, and saying, Look, that is a carnal thought. Look, the behavior that you just did, it is sin. That thing that you just said, I know that you think that it is harmless, but it was sin. God wants you to repent so that He can kill that thing in you and replace it with the corresponding Christ like thought.
This is the ministry of the son, to show the people their sins, because the people cannot see their sins. When you speak the words to them, their blood is off of your hands. If they receive the word, we are told in the book of Jeremiah, they will live. If they receive your words, if they say, Amen, that is sin, God just quickened that to me, that is sin, I repent.
Even if God does not quicken it to them, if they could say, If it is sin, Father I repent, if they do not defend themselves, if they say, if there is any possibility that what you said to me is true, I want to repent, Father, if they just do whatever they have to do, the Christ in that person has just sacrificed their carnal mind. The sacrifice for sins in you is Christ in you crucifying your carnal mind.
COMMENT: Do you not believe then that we are going to be hit with physical bombs?
PASTOR VITALE: I am not going to say yes or no. Let me just say a few things about that. I believe that because of all of this deep teaching that has been coming forth here, a teaching about the resurrection from the dead, we are being raised from the dead and God is teaching us how it is happening.
Let me ask you a question. I will answer your question with a question. If God is doing all of this to a first fruits company right now, and He is raising them so that they can judge the Church, so that the nation and the earth can be cleansed, I have trouble fitting in an invasion from Russia with it. What would the purpose of the invasion be?
Under the Old Covenant, God sent Babylon to invade Judah, and it was judgment. The invasion by a foreign nation is the kind of judgment that I see in the Bible happening under the Old Covenant, but this is the New Covenant. The New Covenant promises us the resurrection of the dead and dominion over our own souls, our own body and dominion over our country.
If God is raising up the sons of God from the dead, where does an invasion from Russia fit in? I cannot reconcile the two, and I am inclined to go with the deep doctrine. I do believe that it is going to manifest on the earth somewhat, because there are still so many carnal people out there that will not fear God without these physical signs.
It is necessary because, first of all, they would never know what I was talking about if they heard me, and even if they had any idea what I was talking about, they would probably just laugh and walk away. So there has to be some destruction out there to get people's attention.
COMMENT: So you believe that there will be some physical manifestation of destruction?
PASTOR VITALE: There will be some, but I do not think we are going to be wiped out by a nuclear holocaust. Who are the sons of God going to judge if we are all wiped out by a nuclear holocaust? As far as Russia invading us, without a nuclear holocaust, is concerned, I believe that, that is an Old Testament type judgment, and that this judgment that is coming now is going to pour out of the fully righteous mind of the sons of God.
The result of the judgment from the sons of God will be the other people's full stature. If we have a nuclear holocaust or if Russia floods in across the land, it will mean physical bondage, rape, plunder. My Bible says to me that God will raise up a first fruits company of men in whom the righteousness of Christ will be revealed, and they will reign down horrible judgments on the people. There will be pain and torment and moaning and groaning in the streets, but the end of it is the resurrection of the dead, of the whole nation, of the whole world.
What are we going to do with Russian soldiers in the street? It does not fit. We will find out. I would not argue with anyone about it, but that is my opinion.
COMMENT: I believe what he said though, that America would be hit by Russia, but I do not think that America will be taken over by Russia. I do not think that all of America will be wiped out. I think they are going to be hit and that is what is going to happen. My opinion is that, I still believe what he said. I believe it was of God, and I believe that it will happen, but I also believe this deep doctrine and the message that the sons of God will come forth. America will not be wiped out, but I think it will be hit in those areas.
PASTOR VITALE: There has to be a reconciliation of the two. For years my understanding of the Scripture that talks about the enemy coming from the north, is that the north typifies Satan.
6. Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction. KJV
22. Thus saith the LORD, Behold, a people cometh from the north country, and a great nation shall be raised from the sides of the earth. KJV
I have it on many tapes, those of you that have heard the whole series of tapes that we have here would have heard it. For years I have taught that the north typifies Satan. If you look it up in Strong's concordance, you would find that the Hebrew word translated north means dark, or cold. It is the exact opposite of what Christ is. Christ is the light and He is heat. The word north is Strong's 6828, meaning properly hidden, that is, dark; used only of the north as a quarter (gloomy and unknown): - north (-ern, side, -ward, wind).
We have many teachings on the north typifying Satan, the unconscious mind of man, and the attack is truly coming out of the unconscious mind of man. That preacher that we watched earlier, the one that I pointed out to you made a subliminal suggestion to everyone who was listening, that suggestion came out of the north. That attack that was a seed which went into the minds of millions of people was an attack out of the north. Can you hear it?
COMMENT: The Lord told this Romanian man to cry out, do not hold it in, tell about it, so there has got to be a reason for him coming and telling it. I mean, I would not just go to somebody and say, Look you are going to die next week, and just give them the information. What good is that information? There has got to be a reason, and I believe it is so that we can repent.
PASTOR VITALE: His message to the Church is repent, and the Church in this hour can not understand what I just said, that the judgment is coming out of the unconscious mind. They would not know what I was talking about, so the Lord let a prophet like that come forth, and he let the man say, there is going to be burning in the streets, and maybe we will get a hit from Russia, and maybe will get a hit from the Middle East. It is possible. Then he lets enough of it come to pass so that the man is not a liar, but that is because God will meet you wherever your understanding is.
For those of us who have received this deep word, we have to be very careful that we do not fall backwards into carnality because of panic. Do you understand what I am saying? You do not have to agree with me, but do you understand what I am saying? I believe the man was a true prophet, and I believe that messages from God can be taken on many levels, and that, that message was to the Church at large. We have to listen to it carefully, so that it does not cause us to stumble.
COMMENT: It is both physical and spiritual?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes. Carnal Christians are panicking right now, and talking about nuclear warfare and all that, but we who are called to the first fruits company of the sons of God, we have understanding, we are not to run hither and thither. We are to know the deep truth, because He has called us to it. Why, because we are great? No, because He had to pick somebody and He happened to pick us.
COMMENT: I do not know if I am wrong, but I thought that he is sending fire to His first fruits in Nevada and New York and California and Florida. I thought that was what he was saying.
PASTOR VITALE: I am sure that, that is true, but I also believe that there will be some fire in the streets for the carnal Church that needs to be frightened into repentance.
COMMENT: Right, but the book of Revelations says that He sends earthquakes and they still do not believe it, they are mocking Him. So the first fruits will be there to strengthen those that He is bringing through.
PASTOR VITALE: I believe the message is true on two levels. I feel to say this now. We hear so many testimonies about people dying and meeting their creator, and seeing a bright light and going into a tunnel, and I have had many people ask me how I explain that.
My explanation is the same explanation as I just gave you. God will meet you where you are. If you believe that heaven is in another place, and that angels appear in a certain way, and God wants to give you a communication and He wants to give you a message to bring back to the rest of the Church, God has the ability to let you see a bright light in a long tunnel.
It is just like if you want to give a message to a kindergarten child, you phrase it in a certain way. That Church up in Connecticut that I am so fond of, when I took the tour of that Church last May, we had a little talk by the woman in charge of the children's school, and she said, that the children are taught the same teaching as what the pastor teaches on Sunday. The teachers get a hold of it and they break it down so that the youngsters can understand it, and the youngsters receive the same teaching that adults got, but on the child's level.
Can you hear what I am saying. If you really believe that heaven is in another place, and God wants to talk to you, He does not come to you and start giving you a lecture on where heaven is. He meets you in a place that looks like heaven to you so you can believe that it is Him.
We have to move on, and that does not mean that everyone else in the Church is moving on with us. We must come to a place, by God's grace, where we can believe a mature way while we accept the fact that other Christians may not be as mature as we are. It is okay for everybody to be where they are, and be what they are and who they are, until God says, Come up higher. If we refuse to go, then we have got a problem, but that problem is with God.
As far as individuals go, as far as God's believers go, it is essential that we all come into a revelation that God has children of all ages, and our spiritual age has nothing whatsoever to do with our physical appearance, our education, or our ability to earn money. God has children of all ages and it is very hard to tell how old an individual is. His spiritual age has nothing whatsoever to do with whether he is a doctor or a lawyer or coal miner.
You cannot look at someone's physical body and their position in life, and get a revelation of how old their spiritual man is. The only way you can get that understanding is when you speak to them. You listen to what they say, and analyze their attitudes and you know whether you are talking to a babe in Christ or you are talking to an elder in Christ. If he is a babe in Christ, that is fine, God bless him. We must come to a place where we can accept people where they are. This is not common in the Church.
If God brings you to someone who is not as mature as you are, maybe God has something He wants you to tell them. Maybe He will bring you into a fellowship with them and the elder must meet the younger at their level, because there is no way that the younger can understand what you are talking about. You must talk to them on a level that they can understand, and we are to love one another and fellowship with one another and not try to force people to be as mature as we are.
Just like in an extended family you have parents, grandparents, children of all ages, and hopefully you are all relating to one another. We have to learn how to do it. There is a mistake in the Church. It is a mentality that says, everybody is supposed to be in the same place at the same time, and if you are not, we (some of us), go after each other to try and bring them to where we are.
I just really exhort you with all of the strength that I have, to put that before God, to ask Him if you are doing that in any way, and if you are, to help you to stop. Those of us that are more mature must minister to the youngsters and you cannot minister with condemnation and fear. You must minister in gentleness and in love, and meet them where they are.
The ministry can be just one word, one seed that you plant. It is really glorious. It is a question of the more mature Christians amongst us, being able to minister to the infant Christians. We are all working out our own salvation with fear and trembling right now. We all have our own problems and we all have our own weaknesses and we all have our own fears.
While we are struggling with our own problems trying to overcome, in the midst of our greatest travail, God is sending us out to minister to someone who is saying something that is making our mind go bong, bong, bong, and He wants us to be able to get our act together, just like you would do for a small child.
If your child came home from school, and you were having a bad day, you just get your act together, wash your face if you were crying, and you say, Hi honey, how was school today? Do you cry on your eight year old's shoulder? I do not know about you, but I find this mature ministry much easier to minister when God gives me the example of small children, because I do not see the Church understanding this.
If you talk to someone and you try to explain deep truth to them, and they do not understand, maybe they could not understand it. Give them a chance to digest it. Because we are so carnal, everybody is still so carnal, including me in many ways, we have trouble perceiving that the person may be just too young to really understand this, or maybe they need to think about it for a few minutes before they really understand it.
If we had an eight-year-old child in front of us, we would not have any trouble understanding that Johnny did not understand that, but because of our carnality, we look at the person's physical body, and sometimes we look at their position in life, and we say, You should really understand that. What is your problem? You have a PhD. Spiritually, they do not know what you are talking about.
Then you go down the street and you meet somebody that did not get out of sixth grade and they know everything you are talking about. They understand every word you are saying. It makes no sense to the natural mind. I am going to say it one more time, I really feel to say it one more time. Many of us, and I think all of us sometimes, look at other believers and assess then by looking at their physical age and status, and we expect spiritual things from them by the way they look, and we mess up, we mess up.
What do we have to do? What am I saying? I am saying that we do not know where anybody is by looking at them. We cannot tell by how much money they make or by how much education they have. It has nothing to do with what position they have, or what position they have in God's Church.
So what do you do? You ask God to help you. Some people hear this and they walk away condemned. I am not condemning you, I am giving you thoughts to put before the Lord. If you hear something and you cannot do it, tell God that you want help. Do not be condemned because you do not do it.
This is what you do. While you are standing there talking to the person, you say, Father, who are they? How old are they, what do you want me to say to them? Do you have an assignment for me today? Do they need help? Do you have a word for them? Is there anything that I could say to them that would comfort them. How are you going to be glorified in this conversation? What would you do with the two of us today, Lord?
After you pray these prayers silently in your head, you say to the person, Hi how are you, what is new? and you just wait for God to speak out of your mouth. Sometimes you can be in the conversation with someone for two hours, talking about worldly things like knitting and crocheting and cooking, before He speaks.
Sometimes, something comes out of my mouth after two hours, and I know that it is God. I know that God wanted that person to hear this. Sometimes the person has been praying and they recognize it as an answer to their prayer, and sometimes they do not. If it is God's will, the thought or the word goes into their heart, and God will quicken it to them in His time.
This is not easy. Do not think that I am telling you this is easy, when you are on fire to minster for God and you want to get out there and preach to them and tell them about everything that you have learned. You have to talk about simple things for two hours and then your teaching to them is one sentence. That hurts your carnal mind, that hurts your pride.
It hurts your carnal mind, it is frustrating. It is painful, but I want to encourage you today that there is a piercing through. If you are willing to make this sacrifice so that, that person can hear what God has to say to them, if you are willing in your mind and you try the best you can, there is a piercing through where it stops being painful.
It used to kill me, I use to think I was going to die. For me, the kind of person that I am, all I want to talk about is the things of God, that is the way I use to be. It was very hard for me to talk about carnal things, but I am really moving out of it. God is moving me out of it, and I have a real peace. I can have a conversation on knitting or crochet. I can do it now, and it does not hurt me, because I know that God is going to bring forth spiritual ministry from me when He is going to bring it forth.
You cannot put yourself in an ivory tower. You cannot say to people, the only thing I will talk to you about is spiritual things. You cannot do that to people, you cannot do that to people.
You have to come together as two human beings, asking God to dominate the conversation, and then whatever happens, happens. You have to be prepared to have carnal conversations, because most people cannot talk about the things of God for five hours, they run.
People use to flee from me screaming. They either get this pained look on their face, and excuse themselves, or they run from me. Why? Because the word of God burns you! They could not bear what I was saying anymore, it was burning their brain out. I went before the Lord and I said, Why are all of these people walking away from me, Lord? How come nobody wants to talk to me? Then I got this revelation, and He gave me the victory.
I can commune with almost anybody on almost any subject as long as it is not obscene, I mean any descent subject. This is what God wants us to do, to have normal relationships with people. He will move right in your conversation. He will do it, if you are willing, He will do it. If you are trying to do that now and you are having some discomfort in your emotions, be encouraged because there is a piercing through where it stops being painful, and it becomes very natural.
It becomes natural to meet them where they are, it becomes natural to pray silently. For a long time I would forget to pray. I would meet the person, and I would forget to pray, and I would go home, and say, Lord, I did not even ask you what you wanted me to say to them, or any of the questions that I put to you. It is a practice.
If you want it, if you can hear this word and you want it and you have a willing heart, God will bring you into it, and He will train you right on the spot. I am here to tell you that this ministry is available to you, and if you can hear it and your heart is open to it, He will train you. He will give you the practical training, so that it can become real to you. He wants you in this ministry more than you want it.
He wants this whole world converted out there, but He wants them converted not with a lie but with His truth. He wants this whole creation raised from the dead and we are being raised from the dead one man at a time. That part of us that is already within us, which died, is being raised from the dead, and this resurrection is being accomplished by a spiritual experience which is initiated by talking, by the foolishness of preaching. Men are saved by the foolishness of preaching.
Jesus said, My words are spirit, and my words are life. I want to tell you that if you can get a subliminal suggestion from someone's carnal mind which goes right into your mind, and roots down and brings forth fruit out of Christ in them, if you have a willing heart, and sometimes even without a willing heart. These words are spirit and they are life and they are going into your mind, and Lord willing, they are going to root down and they are going to grow and produce fruit, not necessarily the next day or the next week or the next month, but you never know, it could be very soon. Even if you have to wait a few years, there will be fruit coming forth from it.
I have proof that this is Christ speaking tonight, and my words will bring about the reproduction of His life in you. You cannot go on my words, it has got to come forth in you. The whole purpose of the preaching is to reproduce what He has done in me in you. You are not being saved from the outside, you cannot be saved by my faith. I may pray for you, and He may heal you if I pray for you, or He may not. But the bottom line is He wants the life that is growing in me, to get inside of you, and that is what the preaching does. It gets inside of you.
I want to tell you that the more spiritual that you get, the more you have to guard your mind. I was speaking to someone just the other night. They were a person that did not know much about witchcraft and they very casually showed me this little town and said to me, If you do not mind witches, there is a real cute café over there, it is called Coven house and it is owned by witches. We can go there and have lunch. That is what they said to me, if you do not mind witches.
I just carefully pursued the conversation and the person told me that they know that there are white witches, they are good witches, and that they know somebody who taught them a few spells. I was being careful, and sort of seeking the Lord as to how to approach this person who does not have any idea that this is dangerous.
I wanted to say something that would help them. I did not want to say something that was going to make them mad at me. I wanted to help them, so I said to the person, What kind of spell did they teach you? I am not going to repeat it to you but I want to tell you she told it to me. It was a simple little thing. There was nothing gross about it, but it went right into my mind, I was aware of it, and it attacked me.
I just repented right there in the car. I said, Father, I had no idea that when I asked her that, that I was opening myself to this witchcraft. I just rebuked it and I prayed, and it eventually went, although it took about an hour. It was like burning in my brain, I knew that I had been penetrated.
If that can happen from a person that does not have the Spirit of Christ, and from just repeating an experience with witchcraft, what do you think the words of God coming forth from a Living Christ in you can do, even though you are not in full stature? What kind of power do you think is in this?
Brethren, you must believe that there is power in the Word of God, and that even if you do not see any immediate result, that God's Word will not come back void. Maybe it will take five years, maybe it will take ten years, but it will not come back void. I was in an encounter with a man this weekend, and he almost cut my heart out. He was so antagonistic towards me, and he would not let me get a word in edgewise, and he knew all of the answers.
He knows all about Christianity. He knows what I preach, he knows what I teach. He knows what I believe, and he is all wrong about everything. He asked questions and he answered the questions, and I am standing there like this. I was praying the whole time, Lord, you have got to be glorified in this.
I am sitting here, I am not arguing with him. I am letting him crucify me. He was very cruel, he was very cruel to me. I said, Lord, you have got to be glorified in this. It went on for close to an hour, and as the conversation was ending, the Lord had me say to him, You have to let me say something, you cannot talk for a whole hour, you have to let me say something, and he got quiet. I knew that, that was my opening, and what came out of my mouth was, A new heart is being imparted to men.
I love this man, but he is a big, loud mouth, man, and he was really bullying me very much. He walked out of the room saying, A new heart? It went right in. Do you know what I am saying? It went right in. I do not know how long it is going to take to bear fruit, but it went in. I let him crucify me for an hour so that I could have the opportunity to speak that word of life.
This is the ministry of the son. When you are in full stature, your title is son of God. When you are operating in any measure in this ministry, without being in full stature, you are a member of the two witness company. The two witness company is a company of human beings that are not in full stature but who are moving under an anointing to do the work.
COMMENT: Does full stature mean spiritual perfection? Is that what it means?
PASTOR VITALE: It is spiritual perfection. Full stature is the maturity of the mind of Christ in you. It is when the mature mind of Christ in you is so mature that it destroys all of the sin in your mind, and this is perfection. You are a member of the two witness company if you are ministering this ministry before you are in perfection. When you come into perfection, you become a son of God.
COMMENT: I have one question. When a child is born, is that a full stature according to your...
PASTOR VITALE: No, a child is born...
COMMENT: I mean, it is a pure soul.
PASTOR VITALE: We have two births; we are born of water and we are born of blood. The birth of a child is the birth of water. We have to have a second birth of the spirit, and the full birth of the spirit in you is perfection.
COMMENT: Because of the fact that we have been born into a material world with good and bad, we have to choose between good and bad until we come to full stature. It is up to us. Is that what you mean?
PASTOR VITALE: No, it is up to the Lord, you cannot do it. He has to do it in you.
COMMENT: Yes, but do you not have to have a will in this, you have to want to do it?
PASTOR VITALE: You do have to have the will, but if He chooses you, He will put the will in you. I think you said babies are born with pure souls, that is not true. Everyone that is born is born in sin.
COMMENT: I think that when you are born, you are pure.
PASTOR VITALE: That is not true.
COMMENT: Then you live in a material world and then you get hurt, and you see what is out there, all sorts of evil things. So you are staining yourself. When you start thinking and seeing things, then you have to choose. Like what it says in the Bible, they have to choose.
PASTOR VITALE: I know that some religions teach that, but the Bible does not teach that. The Bible teaches that our ancestor Adam, the original creation, fell into sin, and all of his offspring, (which we all are,) are born in sin, and shaped in iniquity, since Adam fell into sin.
5. Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. KJV
That is what the Bible teaches. We are not born pure, even little babies, because the sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
9. Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, KJV
COMMENT: It probably is a different religion. What do they say, the Catholics? I am not Catholic, I was just born Catholic, but when a child dies, he just goes right to heaven or whatever. Since he did not have a chance to get the...
PASTOR VITALE: He has the sins of his fathers upon him.
COMMENT: I got involved in some kind of oriental philosophy in my younger years, and I do believe that Jesus Christ was the only who got that spiritual perfection, and I think it is in all of us.
PASTOR VITALE: The potential for it?
PASTOR VITALE: That is true, we have the potential for it.
COMMENT: Yes, but it is very hard. You would have to go and hide up in the mountains somewhere and have no contact at all.
PASTOR VITALE: I think that is what Buddhism teaches, but it is really not true. The reason you see nobody (actually, nobody but Jesus) attaining to perfection is that it has not really been the time for it. There is a time for it. The Bible talks about that day when men will be raised from the dead, and we are about to enter into that time period any moment. Once we enter into it, you will not have to go hide in a mountain. It is going to happen right inside your heart, wherever you are. Are there any other questions or comments?
COMMENT: I just have an observation about the war in the United States. I think it is going to be a civil war, an internal war, between Armageddon, the carnal mind, against the mind of Christ. The battle is within us. It is going to be war....
PASTOR VITALE: ....revealed in the streets, yes.
COMMENT: What is prominent with these four major cities that came forth in the prophecy is that their sin is so tremendous. I have heard many people say that New York City is Babylon, Los Angeles is Babylon. I do not know too much about Florida, but I would say Miami, and Nevada, and Las Vegas also. There is so much of sin there that it is understandable that, that is where the judgment will fall.
PASTOR VITALE: Babylon is a spirit. Let me remind you that under the Old Covenant Babylon was a physical nation, but this is a spiritual covenant. It is happening in the realm of the spirit. Where does the realm of the spirit exist? It exists in the minds of men.
Babylon is a spiritual nation, and wherever that spirit is manifesting, wherever human beings permit that wickedness to be revealed through them, that is where Babylon is, that is where Anti-Christ is.
We have to be careful that we are not carrying the principles of understanding of the Old Covenant, into the principles of understanding of the New Covenant. It is very easy to do that because we are still in physical bodies, and we are still carnal. We must be ever diligent. Just ask God to help you, He will help you. He wants you to be spiritual, He will help you.
COMMENT: We are still carnal when we are saved, and New York is wicked, because we are all wicked. If you are a homosexual, and I liar, God says that my sin is just as great as that of homosexuality. There are no steps in between, sin is sin. My lie is just as bad as this homosexual.
PASTOR VITALE: The true Babylon is the carnal mind. That great city that is about to be destroyed, that we read about in the book of Revelation, is the carnal mind. Do you remember the teaching from Thursday night or from two messages ago about the New Jerusalem, and that great and high nation? Do you remember we talked about that?
We said that it was Christ in the many-membered company. Jerusalem is a spiritual nation in many members of humanity, and so is Babylon a spiritual nation in many members of humanity. Babylon is the carnal mind, and every manifestation of her. She is the one that is getting double for the sins that she has poured out upon God's creation.
New York City is a manifestation of Babylon, and Miami is a manifestation of Babylon. We will find in places across the world that there will such an accumulation of sin, such intense accumulation of sin, that such places will stand out like a sore thumb. But all that means is that sin gathered together in one place. The sinful state is the carnal mind, and it is the carnal mind that is going to be destroyed.
Brethren, the carnal mind is the first born. When the angel of death sent by God destroys the first born of this creation, only those members of humanity in whom the mind of Christ has been fully born and is functioning and manifesting, will survive. When your carnal mind is destroyed, if you have a Christ mind to pick up the responsibility of keeping this body alive, you live.
If the mind of Christ has not been born in you, and the angel of death comes upon the earth and smites your carnal mind, you cannot live without a mind, so your body is going to die. In this hour, God is going forth, He is sounding the trumpet. He is saying, Submit yourself to spiritual ministry, study to show yourself approved, do what you have to do so that, that mind of Christ can be formed in you, conceived in you, born in you, because the angel of death is coming.
Do you hear the prophets? The death of the first born of this creation will be the final judgment, and Christ will rule until every enemy is under His feet, even that last enemy which is death. That is your carnal mind.
1 Corinthians 15:22-26
22. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. KJV
How is the carnal mind the first born? God made the creation, He called it Adam. This creation was made out of the dust of the earth, it was clay, and it had the potential to bring forth a mind. It had the potential for mind to appear in this creation. It was not like an animal out there running around in the streets. We were a creation that had the potential to bring forth a mind.
COMMENT: Is mind a conscience too?
PASTOR VITALE: Conscience, the ability to reason, conscience, yes. God had ordained that the mind that would be born in the creation, the first born mind in the creation would be Christ. God made the original creation righteous. He stood him up in the garden and he imputed righteousness to him. There was a mind in that creation that was righteous, but it was not a mind that was fully born in the creation. How do we describe a fully born mind, does anybody remember?
PASTOR VITALE: No, a three-fold cord. All of these words are true. That is all correct, but what I was getting at was a three fold cord. When there is a male and there is a female and then there is an offspring of the male and the female, when that mind is the offspring of a male and a female seed, it is fully born.
12. And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken. KJV
The Christ that appeared in the creation at the beginning of time in the age known as Innocence, had a mind, but the mind was not fully born in it. It was a two fold cord. The father joined with the creation and formed a temporary mind. It was functioning like Christ, and it looked like Christ, and it acted like Christ, but it was not strong like Christ. It was weak, it was not fully born. There was no penetration of the female by the male, and there was no offspring. It was just the Father and the creation and it was a relationship that produced a temporary Christ. Is everybody okay?
COMMENT: Yes, but what is your understanding of Eve that ate the forbidden fruit?
PASTOR VITALE: I cannot go into that whole thing right now, but I do have tapes on it, if you want to hear the tapes. The first mind in the creation was Christ but it was not the first born. It was a mind that was not born, and we found out, when we did this study, that there was a problem because of a weakness in the creation, which was, as you say, inexperienced and immature.
Satan got in there, as male, joined with the female element of the creation, caused a penetration and brought forth a birth, the carnal mind. The first born of the creation was the carnal mind of man, which is death. Then we see in the man Jesus of Nazareth, that the Father brought forth the second born. The creation joined with the Father, there was a penetration and there was the birth of a mind, the mind of Christ which was not immature, which was not weak, but which was strong and which was in fact stronger than the carnal mind.
We saw in the man Jesus of Nazareth that, that righteous mind of Christ killed his carnal mind, and therefore the Father raised Him from the dead. The first born is the carnal mind, Who is the angel of death, who is going to kill your carnal mind? Christ. When Christ is fully born in you, He is the angel of death to your carnal mind. Brethren, when He is strong enough to do it, He will kill the enmity in your flesh, which is your carnal mind. There is a death coming, there is a death coming, Hallelujah, praise God.
COMMENT: There is pain, living in the carnal mind.
PASTOR VITALE: It is hell.
COMMENT: You said that the carnal mind was born. Do you mean sin?
PASTOR VITALE: Sin, yes, the carnal mind is sin. It is a mind that every man is born with, and it is a mind that thinks sin. We cannot help but think sin, that is the condition of our mind, and the way Jesus is getting us out of this problem that we have is by giving us a new mind, and the name of that mind is Christ.
When we get Christ, He will kill our sin filled mind, and then we shall be righteous, and we will not sin anymore. We will then not have the problems that we have, because every problem that we have is a result of sin. Is there anybody else?