The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For
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Comment: I am hearing this from Sheila. She is saying God is breaking our adamic mind, our adamic soul, and it has got a real strong will. I hear this from her, and I know it is true, but it is hard to hear it; you know. It is hard to hear it, but the Lord confirms that this is true. He is using this kind of realm where I have to see this, where a child’s will is so strong. (Young child is crying and having a tantrum in the background) It has got to be broken. The sooner that adamic nature is broken in the children, the better. The sooner that will is broken, the better off you are going to be. Let Christ come through you with Christ like authority to break it.
Pastor Vitale: I would like to say something. I have been listening a lot to John Bradshaw. He is a psychologist that has become very popular because he preaches on co-dependency. He has helped a lot of people that come out of dysfunctional families, where there is alcoholism, and many other emotional conflicts present. He would really be disagreeing with someone that he heard saying the spirit of the child has to be broken. He has condemned it in his programs. Now I would like to make it clear that I like John Bradshaw. The Lord has shown me that he really has been a help to humanity in that he has identified a very important problem. I do not agree with his solutions to the problem because they are New Age and meditation. A lot of the things that he says contradicts the Bible.
I would like to put what the Lord showed me in this message. There are two spirits in man. Of course, a child is a small man. The spirit that has to be broken is the satanic spirit that every human being is born with. Satan is the unconscious mind of the natural man. His spiritual power must be broken, utterly crushed, with love, in the child as early as possible. We also have a human spirit, and this is what John Bradshaw deals with. He says how terrible to crush a child’s or man’s spirit, but he is not understanding that there are two spirits. If Christ is crushed, that is a great tragedy. A child’s human spirit is his potential to produce Christ. It is the satanic spirit, the unconscious mind of the adamic man, that must be crushed as young as possible, hopefully with the love of God accompanying him. Anybody not understanding what I just said? All you John Bradshaw fans out there, if this message gets to any of you, what he is saying is true. It is a tragedy to crush the human spirit, but he does not seem to understand that there is also a satanic spirit. Glory to God.
Comment: You are saying that there is a satanic spirit and a human spirit?
Pastor Vitale: Yes, our spiritual makeup is the human soul, the human spirit, and the satanic spirit, which is the unconscious mind. Psychology calls it the libido.
Let me just review this in the message. For anyone reading this message, we go into this in-depth on message #2, The Seduction Of Eve. Just as our human body has a standard makeup, every human being, hopefully, has two arms, two legs, a head, two eyes, a nose, and a mouth. Mankind has a spiritual makeup. We are made out of a human soul, which is our conscience, Adam, and a human spirit, which is likened to the ovarian eggs in a human female. She has the potential, when fertilized, to bring forth the life of Christ. Also, in the earth of our humanity, is something likened to the worms that exist in the earth across our natural planet. When you want to plant, you have to turn over the ground, and you find worms, and maggots, and all kinds of wickedness in the earth. That is Satan. He is the unconscious mind of the natural man.
Comment: You were saying something about John Bradshaw not pointing out that there is a human nature and a satanic nature. I was under the impression that Adam and Satan were the same.
Pastor Vitale: I did not say nature. I said spirit. We have a heart, and lungs, and a spleen, and many organs, but when I look at you, all I see is a woman. I do not separate your lungs out, or your heart out. I do not say there is Rita lungs, or Rita heart. I do not do that. I just say there is Rita. She is a whole person. Well, spiritually we are the adamic nature, but within the adamic nature is a conscience, which is our human soul, which is utterly failing us in this hour. Our human spirit, which is our spirituality, she has the potential, when the spiritual seed of God joins to her, to reproduce the exact image of Christ in all of his greatness. We, as human beings, have the potential to have the image of Christ engraved within us, and come forth as an exact replica of the spiritual life that was in Jesus Christ of Nazareth. When a human woman becomes fertilized, she does not get pregnant in her lungs. She does not get pregnant in her heart. She gets pregnant by the fertilization of the ovarian egg, which roots in her womb.
Well, when we become spiritually fertilized, which is necessary to bring forth Christ, the child that is going to save us in childbearing, spoken of in 1 Timothy, the place that we get fertilized in is our human spirit. She is the spirituality of the human personality, which is in three parts. Adam, our conscience, who is failing in this hour; Eve, our spiritual life, the potential to reproduce God in us; and Satan, who is the intelligence that dwells in the earth, likened to the earth worms out there in the natural earth. God put us all together, and each one has a function. It is God’s intention to have spiritual life take form and appear. The way that we are appearing is that He has covered the spiritual life with earth.
Comment: So Eve is like the fertile dirt out there that I could go plant a flower in. The worms are like Satan. How is Adam compared to the earth?
Pastor Vitale: You would have to put the seed in first to get a flower. Adam is the earth. Eve is the fertile element in the earth. Eve and Adam are one. Adam is the conscious mind and the conscience, but in this hour he is not doing his job. He has been broken by the satanic intelligence in the earth. When Adam was first formed he had dominion over the satanic intelligence in the earth. The satanic intelligence was pressed down, and he could not get out and do any damage. But when Eve was seduced, that imputed power to Satan, and he rose up and crushed the conscience of Adam. That is what happened when the human race fell. This is our condition right now. When the Spirit of Christ comes to us, and fertilizes our human spirit, the very image of Christ can come forth in us, and he is our renewed conscience. He is going to do what Adam cannot do. He is going to raise us up to moral righteousness, that will result in the resurrection of our souls and our bodies from the dead.
Comment: I had a dream that we were in church, and it was at the Upper Room. It was me, Rita, and another girl that I have seen at church. We were all ready to get baptized at the church and the water was ready. I am all excited because I am going to be submerged underwater, and come up, and I could not wait. Rita was with me. There were a couple of people that went ahead of us. I was one of the last, me and this girl. Rita had gone before me. When Rita was submerged underwater, I was ready to go and was all excited, but I could not go because there was not enough water. I was really upset about it. Rita was the last one to go under. I was all excited, but I did not go under because there was not enough water. But the girl who was with me did not really care. She said, at least I do not have to go under, and get messed up, or something like that. I did not go under, and I was upset about it. I kind of felt the interpretation of the dream was that I was ready to commit to the new man, but not yet because I was still in the old man. As of right now I am not under yet, or something like that.
Pastor Vitale: Well, I could say amen to that because if you have been born again, and you have conceived Christ, there is a new man in you. So you have two souls. Soul is typified by water and the spirit, and there is going to be an exchange of souls, that part of us which is our spiritual essence, that is right now joined to the adamic soul. The Lord is separating us from the adamic soul, and He is exchanging our souls. We are going to get the soul of Christ. You cannot be exchanged into Christ until Christ, in you, is maturing. Christ or your new man is growing in you. When he is mature enough, the Lord is going to break you free, your true life, which is Eve your human spirit, is going to separate you from Adam and Satan, and exchange you into his soul. But he has to be there for you to get in. Right?
Comment: I was saying that it could mean that the Holy Spirit is in you, but that you have not conceived Christ yet. That was what I was saying was the possible meaning.
Pastor Vitale: Either she has not conceived him yet, because there was not enough water, or he is not mature enough. It is not even worth haggling over the details. You are going to get there. That is all that matters. That is encouraging.
Comment: In what way do you grow and mature in Christ? Is it more of the word of God, or more of the dying of the flesh?
Pastor Vitale: It is a spiritual thing. Just like any human woman, Christ must be conceived in you, and just like a human woman, you have to be pregnant for nine months. Sometimes the baby is premature and born in eight months, but basically there is no way that that baby is going to come into the fullness of a human being before nine months. Well, Christ is growing in you, however long it is going to take. Spiritual is different than natural. Naturally it is nine months, but spiritually it is not the same amount of time for everyone. There are things you can do to help, by studying and exposing yourself to the things of God, but basically speaking, you can only encourage it so much. The human baby has to grow. The Christ child in you has to grow. He can grow at maximum speed or minimum speed, but you are still going to have to wait out your spiritual pregnancy.
TONGUES: PASTOR VITALE
Yea, my Spirit shall not strive with man, saith the Lord. For indeed, I will bring him unto the end of himself, saith God. I will turn him one against the other, saith the Lord, as in the curse of dispersion, saith the Lord. All are against one another, every man his sword against his brother, saith the Lord. They shall destroy, and they shall come to the end of themselves, and I shall rule in all of my holy mountain, saith the Lord. All that is not of me, and all that is not of my Spirit shall be burnt, saith God. I shall prevail, saith the Lord, and I shall be God of my creation. Hallelujah.
PROPHECY THROUGH RITA
I see your wounds. I see your wounds. I am here to heal you of your wounds. I am here to heal you today. Abide in my love. Look not at the things around you. Look not at the circumstances. Look not at the things in your relationships that are hurting, but look at me. Keep your eyes upon me. Keep your eyes upon me. I will heal you. I will heal you of your wounds, and I will bringunderstanding in time for you. Yea, there are things around you that would draw you away from my Spirit, and cause you to be busy, cause you to keep busy. Take time for me, saith the Lord. Take time for me. Take time to spend with me, and listen to me. Quiet yourself, and be quiet before me, and hear me. I will speak to you, and in this speaking I will heal you. For yea, I have called you. Yea, I have called you to a deep calling. And yea, all of you now, I have called you to a deep calling, and I desire that you come up with me, and spend time with me, and listen to me. So quiet yourselves before me, and listen to me, for yea in this hour, I am breaking the will. I am breaking the will, saith the Lord, that your will may line up with mine, that you may come into the glory that I have for you. Without the suffering, there will be no glory, says the Lord, without the suffering. You must endurethe suffering, and then you shall see the glory, saith the Lord. You are my servants, saith the Lord, and I will draw you to myself by the Spirit. So walk in the Spirit. Walk in love and see one another in love. Bear not your own burdens, but give them to me, saith the Lord. Lay them down before me, saith the Lord. I will surely lift you up out of the pit of your own carnal mind, and I will lift you up to my life, saith the Lord. Hallelujah.
PROPHECY THROUGH PASTOR VITALE
Jesus Christ is our new mind. This is the gospel of the kingdom. It is the message that is going forth in the earth today. There is a new mind available to men. We die because there is sin in our mind. Our old mind is killing us. We must transfer into the mind of Christ if we are to live. We must let him become our king. We must let him become our ruler, the generator of our every thought, word and deed. For centuries, Satan was the god of this world, even the prince of the power of the air, and he still rules in the children of disobedience. You, who bear my name, even though you prophesy, and read the Bible, and go to church, if you do not what I say, you are not of mine. You must submit to my mind, saith the Lord. I will not strive with you, saith God. I will permit you to fall prey to your own destruction, but I shall rule in my people. I shall rule in my people, saith the Lord. Resist not. Search yourselves, that you be not judged, saith God. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for I come quickly, saith the Lord. Yes, the hour is even at hand, even the hour of my appearance, saith God. The hour draweth nigh, and there shall be a great earthquake, and a great shaking. There shall be many high signs in the heavenlies of your mind, saith God. Yes, even the moon of your adamic soul shall shine no longer, and it shall not be the light of the sun of your adamic soul found anymore, saith the Lord. But I shall be your sun, and the soul of my Son shall be your moon, saith the Lord. I shall be your life. I shall generate every thought, and every word, and every deed. In this hour, saith the Lord, my children are in a great rebellion, saith God. Yea, there has been a great fallen away, even a great apostasy, saith the Lord. They go here, and they go there, and they say, thus saith the Lord, but I have never said it, saith the Lord. Indeed, there is a lying spirit in the mouth of my prophets, saith the Lord. They say thus saith the Lord, but I have not said it, saith God. They stand in my pulpits, and they speak lies, saith the Lord. I have winked, saith the Lord. I have winked for many a season, and my prophets have cried out. Yea, even those that are faithful in Israel, they have moaned, and they have groaned before me, saith the Lord. And they have said how could this sin be in Israel? Where is the God of Israel? Is there no judgment? They have cried unto me, saith the Lord, and indeed, I have heard them. Yes, even now the hour of the judgment of the church is at hand, saith the Lord. Prepare yourself, and ask me for my mind. Excuse not the sins of your brethren, saith the Lord. Excuse not, excuse not, for I am a righteous God, and I shall not have unrighteousness bear my name, saith the Lord. I am a just God. I am filled with mercy, saith the Lord, but not to the extent that I will compromise my righteousness. Either you are for me, or you are against me, saith the Lord. The hour is at hand. You must choose between righteousness and sin, and your softness that says, oh he did not mean it, the hour is past, saith the Lord. If you side with the sin, you partake of that sin, saith God. In every situation, judge ye. Know ye not, that ye shall judge angels? What think you that this means, saith the Lord? You shall judge your brethren. Yea, the Scripture says judge not before the time, but the time is now, saith the Lord. As the appearing of Christ is on the horizon, thou must judge between Christ and sin in your brethren, and you must stand for righteousness. There is no condemnation in Christ Jesus, saith the Lord. My judgment is just, and it is tempered with my love and my mercy. But permitting sin amongst you will bring nothing but death, for indeed a mixture is anti-christ. The purity of my Spirit and the purity of my word must prevail, yea, even the purity of my mind. There shall be no mixture, saith the Lord. Indeed, even going back into the Levitical law, I have given the commandment, thou shalt not mix thy seed, saith God. It shall be my seed in your mind.
There shall be no mixture, saith the Lord. I will not tolerate it, and I say unto you this day, one or the other shall prevail. If Adam prevails in your mind, you shall surely die. But if you wage the warfare of armageddon, if you battle sin in your mind, if you stand against adamic and carnal thoughts, I shall indeed join my strength to you, saith the Lord. And I shall indeed give you the victory, and you shall indeed live. Fill not your head with childish fables, saith the Lord. Yield not to the itching ears that seek for lies, and ministry that tickles your soul, that feeds your soul, saith God, but yield unto my righteousness. And indeed there shall be pain accompanying that righteousness, saith the Lord, but it will only be for the night, saith God. Indeed, joy cometh in the morning. It is not forever, but there is a season of suffering, saith God, during which my life will come forth in you. But you must join with me, and you must wage war against every thought that is not out of my mind, or indeed, thou shalt not live. Be not deceived, thou shalt not live if thou refuses to fight. Wage the warfare, saith the Lord, and indeed the victory is assured. This is a positive message, saith God. I promise you glory, victory life, and all of the promises of the Scripture, but not while you rest in your sins, saith God. You must be cleansed. You must be holy as I am holy. Righteousness must be your goal, not the lusts of your flesh. See not that your belly be your god, saith the Lord, for indeed, you can only have one god. If your belly is your god, I am not your God, and indeed, I am the God of the living, saith the Lord. I am not the God of the dead. I am not the God of those that dwell in their sins, and have no desire to arise out of them. The separation is at hand. I shall separate the goats from the sheep, and I shall separate the cattle from the cattle, and I shall come unto my temple, saith the Lord, and with it a great purging, and great fire, but I shall be glorified in my people, and I shall have a church without spot or wrinkle. There are those that speak blasphemy, saith the Lord. They say that this cometh automatically. This cometh not automatically, saith the Lord. This cometh with much tribulation, but this baby shall not be stillborn, saith the Lord. It indeed shall be born and it shall save my wife in childbearing. I will strengthen you, saith the Lord. Fear not. Think not that you cannot do this thing, for with me you can do all things. Indeed, all things are possible in Christ, but turn towards me. Turn away from your sin, and turn towards me in your mind, and I will give you the victory in your flesh. Even now my church is shaking, saith the Lord. I shall bring down every preacher that preacheth not the truth, saith God. I shall bring down out of the pulpit everyone that speaketh lies, and gives foul food to my people, saith the Lord, that they grow not, but that they remain infantile in their spirit. I shall bring them down by one way or another, saith the Lord. In this hour, most of the members of my church do not understand what is happening, but there shall be a great understanding that shall come upon the church, saith God. Yea, they shall understand my truth when they hear it. I shall open their minds, saith God. I shall anoint their ears, and I shall put eye salve in their eyes, saith the Lord, and they shall see and hear, and know the truth, saith God. And everyone that speaketh not the truth, he shall be taken down. There shall be no more confusion upon my people, saith the Lord. There shall be no more variation of doctrine, but the truth shall indeed be made manifest, and all shall hear, and all shall be taught of God.
I would like to expound on that prophecy a little. In this hour we have many doctrines being taught, coming from many preachers, many differences of opinion, and that is because the adamic mind is divided. There is no agreement. We are under the curse of dispersion. The man has been set one against the other in his mind, and a lot of people that are truly seeking the truth of Jesus Christ, do not know who to believe, and they do not know where to turn. But in this hour, the Lord is coming forth very clearly in a group of preachers, that there will be no doubt in your mind that they are of God. They will speak the truth of His kingdom, and what is the truth? It is that word that should bring forth everlasting life within your own souls. He shall reveal those who speak lies for what they are. He shall indeed defend His people, and there shall be no question in your mind as to what you are to believe. The hour of confusion is past. Glory to God. Hallelujah.
Did anyone have a question on that prophecy? That was really intense.
Comment: It said not to let the belly be our god. Does that mean not to desire food in the natural, like if the Lord is saying, come up higher and you are feeling naturally hungry, and you are torn between eating and praying?
Pastor Vitale: No. If you look up that word belly in the Greek, what it is talking about really is reproduction. The word means reproductive parts. It is talking about our reproductive parts. So He is saying, do not make the part of your adamic soul that produces the carnal mind your god. That is what He is saying. Do not get involved in idolatry. It sounds like He is talking about food, but He really is not. It would apply to anything that is idolatrous. If you have an idolatry for food, it could apply to that, but it means much, much more than that. It means do not make your mind your god. If you look up that word in the Greek, it means your mind, because your mind is fruitful, and your mind produces all of the names of blasphemy that strengthens whatever is in you that would make you have idols.
We are to worship God, and we are to be prepared to give up anything that He asks us to give up, believing that He is a righteous God, and that He loves us, and that He knows what is best for us. If He is asking us to give it up, there is a reason for it. Lots of times He asks us to give things up, and it is just for a season. Sometimes He takes things and He does not give them back. But He is all knowledgeable, all merciful, and all love. If He takes it, and He does not give it back, He knows what is best for us. That is the true worship of God. Submission is worship. The church is filled with people that are saying, Lord, Lord, and God tells them to do something, and they say not now. They do not even pray about it. Not me! Up until now, just about every time I have ever seen anybody say not me to God, He lets them go.
I have gone before Him, and I have said, Lord, I do not understand it, because the revelation that you put in my heart is that if you have called somebody, they are going to come whether they are willing at the time that you call them or not. The example is the Book of Jonah. If God has really called somebody, they can only run so far, and He is going to call them back. I know so many people that have run away from God, and He does not seem to do anything. I am confused. I said, Lord, I do not understand it. Well, He witnessed in my heart, very recently, that He has started to go after all of the Jonahs. We are moving into the hour where those that He has called to this firstfruits company, He is going to put His reigns on them. He is going to draw them back because the time is very short. The time is very short.
As I understand the Scripture now, there is going to be two resurrections, the first and the last. The door is opening in the heavenlies really soon, and only those virgins that have oil in their lamps are entering in. The door is going to close. Everybody is not getting in, in the first resurrection. The Scripture is very clear. The five virgins that went to get oil in their lamps, by the time they got back, the door was closed. There was wailing and gnashing of teeth. So if you are one that God has determined to enter in, when this door into the realm of the Spirit opens, He is starting to reel you in, whether you are willing to come or whether you are not willing to come. If He does not start to reel you in, if you are not willing to come, then you are a bastard, and not a son. I am sorry, but that is what the Scripture says. If He does not chasten you, if He does not correct you, if you are going in the wrong direction, and He lets you go, when He knows the hour is really close, then you are not a son. You are a bastard. Paul said it, not me. Glory to God.
Any other questions on that prophesy? It was very somber.
Comment: You said that if God does not correct you, and go after you, that means that you are a bastard, and not a son. Does God love us all?
Pastor Vitale: Yes, God loves us all, but in this hour, in this year, everybody in the earth is not being called up to full stature. Those that are called up to full stature, those to whom He has imparted His life, He calls them sons. You see, we really have to get above this carnality, because those who are not sons, it is not that they are hated of God, but they are going to live out their life without attaining to this high calling, and He is not turning His attention to them right now. That is what it means in this hour. When man looks at it with the carnal mind, he says so what, but from God’s mind you are not His son.
You are likened to an ovarian egg that has not been fertilized. God deals with the living. He deals with the ones that are coming into His life right now. He is not going to harm them in any way, but in His mind, only those entering into the kingdom are His family. Can you hear that? See, the carnal mind would make a condemnation out of that. The Scripture says that the condemnation is that the light came into the world, and you recognized it not. The condemnation of God is that you live out your whole life without ever experiencing a meeting like this, without hearing the prophesy, without experiencing the anointing, without the blessing of having Him move in your life. From the mind of God that is a condemnation. You are condemned. You are condemned to what? You are condemned to this world of darkness that does not know God. But the mind of man would say, if you are condemned you are going to be in a hell where you are whipped forever, and you are burnt, and tortured with flames. That is not God’s mind. God’s mind is that if you are not in His Spirit, you are condemned. A life outside of His Spirit is hell, but it is the mind of man that makes it into these really corrupt things.
Comment: In the Book of Revelation it says there will be gnashing of teeth and suffering.
Pastor Vitale: It says that there will be gnashing of teeth and suffering, but the question is, is it God’s concept of suffering, or is it man’s concept of suffering? What I am trying to say is that it is my understanding of the Scripture, if you are not moving in the mind of God, you are in hell, and that there are different degrees of hell. The natural man walking out on the street right here, he can have a very decent life, but he is still in hell if he does not have Christ. There are people that were in Hitler’s camps that were very much in hell. What about the Kurds that are being tortured in Iraq now? I have seen pictures of them on TV. They are starving to death. They are fighting for food and killing each other for food. That is hell.
Comment: You are talking about the different degrees of hell. Now I think God is a righteous God, but I cannot understand this. I do not know if I should just let it go, and just put my thoughts with Jesus, and let him give me a revelation about it, but this keeps coming back to me. Why does one person suffer more than others? It is quite evident, if you are a reasonably intelligent person, that this is true in this world. That is a question that has always bothered me. It is confusing. After reading the Book of Revelation, I always thought there was going to be a physical hell on this earth.
Pastor Vitale: I think it is here now. I think it is here now.
Comment: I think that also, but where is the fairness in degree, or should we not think about it?
Pastor Vitale: No, you have a right to think about it.
Comment: As we all do, we have our low days and our days where we are not filled with the Spirit of God. It is almost like a temptress. It is like Satan coming in, and before I know it, that is all I am thinking about. I put it aside and it keeps on popping up.
Pastor Vitale: The answer to the question is that the entire human race is fallen. God has cursed the human race. A lot of people get upset when they hear that, but it is the truth. Some family lines are more cursed than other family lines. The difference is that there are certain things, even in this fallen condition, that produce blessings on our families.
Therefore, when we look at our society today, and we see some people that are suffering a lot more than others, most likely, possibly going all the way back on their family lines, there has been some measure of sin that God has cursed without an accompanying measure of blessing. Well, what brings the blessing? I do not want to make this confusing. Serving God, striving for God, desiring God, brings blessings. It is all in the Levitical law. You can have mercy on the widow and the orphan. You can have mercy on the poor. Do not cheat your neighbor. Keep the ten commandments. If our ancestors have lived like that, the chances are there are going to be a lot of blessings on this generation. We see people that do not even know Christ, that have mighty blessings on their life. Their children are healthy. They grow up. They get educated and they get the jobs. They get married. Their grandchildren are healthy. There is no divorce. They have happy lives. They send five sons away to war and all five come back, and are well and healthy. Someone else sends their only son away, and he dies. These are all the blessings or the cursings of God.
Consider this if your life is very hard. The first thing you have to do is come to the Lord, to be a recipient or to be eligible to get the power of God in your life, to oppose His curse, which He put on us originally. The first thing you have to do is repent, confess that you are a fallen human being, as the whole race is, and come to Him. Then you have to say, Lord, look at all of these curses on my family line. I need help. We need help. My kids need help. My husband needs help. You start seeking. Look in the Bible in the Book of Deuteronomy, Chapter 28. You can read all the curses that God has put on mankind that has failed to keep the law. The Scripture says no one can keep the law. If you fail in one point to keep the law, you are a debtor to the Lord. If you are having what you consider to be an unusual amount of trouble in your life, and you have given your life to the Lord like you have, what I would do is go before the Lord, and petition Him to break the curses.
There are two manifestations to this. For this to be so heavy on your life right now, it has to go all the way back. So we have to confess the sins of our fathers, and then we have to confess whatever sins we have committed in this lifetime because we were raised that way, and we did not know any better. It goes from generation to generation. Lots of times we are committing sins and we do not even know that it is a sin. That was what our mother did to us. That is what her grandmother did to her. That is how the sins shall be visited unto the third and fourth generation. You go before the Lord and petition Him, telling Him that you really need help. Things are desperate. You are serving Him with all that you can. Obviously, there are curses operating in your life. You are a Christian and you are eligible to get the power of God in your life to begin to break all these curses for that deliverance to begin. If you would like me to, I would be glad to pray for you before you leave, along those lines.
What He does, He will come to you as rapidly as you can handle it, because this is a very painful thing. He will come to you. He will show you sin on the family line, or in your own life, and you have to confess it and repent, and when you do, He will start breaking the shackles off. He will do it, but depending on how heavy the curses were when you came to the Lord, that it could proportionately take that much longer to get the bands broken off of your family line. You see, it is a big error in the church. They will see someone that is saved twenty years, who still has a big problem. They will say, what is wrong with her? She is saved twenty years. How come she is not straightened out? The truth of the matter is you do not know where she was when God saved her. Someone else comes to the Lord easier. I know a couple that comes to my mind right now. Their life is okay. He is a great business man with a nice home. They are very pleasant. He used to drink, but no real problems. They have very little tolerance for people that are in God, that cannot seem to stand up, but this couple were never where some of these people were when they came to God. Usually the person that is doing the condemning was never in the terrible spiritual condition that someone else might have been in when God came to them.
It is a battle. When I first came to the Lord, I used to have this dream where I was in this deep pit, and I was clawing my way up out of the pit with my hands by sheer brute power. When I finally got up out of the pit, I saw myself on this big highway. What am I saying? There are a lot of people that have to come up out of this deep, deep spiritual pit before they can even get to the place where they can start walking towards God. It is curses. That is what it is. If you can receive that, if it does not frighten you, if it does not offend you, I will be glad to pray for you. I know the Lord will honor it in your life. There is no condemnation in Christ Jesus. The whole human race is cursed. If anyone condemns you, they are not in Christ. He is here to set the captives free. He is not pointing any finger at anybody.
Comment: I want to ask about the prophesy where you talked about the woman who would be saved in childbearing. Is the woman the church?
Pastor Vitale: Yes, the whole church is bringing forth Christ in many members. Each member is bringing forth Christ, but as far as God is concerned, you are a member, and I am a member. Christ is going to appear in all of us, but when the Lord looks at us, we are just one creature. We are not separate. Christ is not divided.
Comment: Is the woman the whole creation?
Pastor Vitale: The woman is the living soul in many members. She is bringing forth Christ. God sees it as one Christ. As far as we are concerned, because all of us are spiritually immature, we are each having our own baby. But as far as the Lord is concerned, we are one woman, and the baby that we are bringing forth is one Christ.
Comment: Is it yourself or is it the whole creation?
Pastor Vitale: The living soul is the whole creation. You see, we are in separate bodies, but spiritually, even outside of Christ, we are just the living soul. God just created one living soul, Adam, and he is like a plant that keeps putting forth leaves. You see all these leaves on the tree, but it is just one tree. If you did not have an understanding of a tree, that the roots went down deep into the ground, if you had no such education, and you looked out the window, you would think that each one of those leaves is a separate tree. No, it is not. There is only one tree. There are individual leaves and many branches. That is how the Lord sees the living soul. We are a tree. Yes, we are a fruit bearing tree and the fruit is Christ, and he is going to come forth in us.
Comment: When Jesus said if it is your eye that is your problem, take it out, if it is your hand, remove it. It reminds me of the limbs of a tree, like the pruning of a tree. You are not hurting the tree. We are only letting it grow.
Pastor Vitale: Right, but it is very painful for the tree when you cut its branches off. (Laughter)
The members that have to be cut off are those that are not producing fruit. The dead branches get cut off. We are the tree. The living soul is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and there are many members. Scripture describes us as a tree or as a plant.
Comment: I look at my life, and I am not producing fruit. Fruit to me is something healthful and healthy, and at this point of my walk, I am not producing. Do I get cut off on judgment day? I know that no one can answer that. Who are the people that are cut off?
Pastor Vitale: I cannot answer that, but I would be very surprised if you were cut off. Let me say something before I answer your other question. First of all, you are in Christ. You speak in tongues, and you are baptized with the Holy Spirit, and the fruit is Christ. If he is not appearing in you now, hopefully he will appear in you. You have already taken two steps. You have confessed your sin; you have repented; you have had a born again experience; and you have received the promise of the Holy Spirit. You have every reason to hope that you shall bear forth the fruit of Christ. If you do not think so, you have a wrong thought in your mind.
The way these curses operate is they operate in the way you think. Destruction comes into your life, and it affects the way you think, so you should be thinking, well, I am pretty far along the way. I have received the promise, and I have every reason to hope that the fruit of my life, which is Christ, will appear in me. I see his fruit right now. I see humility. I just said some hard things to you, and you sat there and said amen. I see fruit right now. I do not think you have anything to worry about. Yes, it does take time for fruit to grow, and some fruits grow faster than others. We were talking about that earlier. I think that you have every reason to hope for the fruit to appear in you.
Comment: Could you give an explanation of what is called the judgment day?
Pastor Vitale: The judgment day is the same thing as the white throne Judgment. That is the judgment of the soul of man. The judgment day does not start the same time for each individual. It starts for you when Jesus Christ takes up residence in your heart, because the judgment of the soul produces the life of Christ. The Lord does not start to judge your soul before Christ is appearing in you. Let me back up. We are a fallen creation. We are sin. The adamic soul is sin. Every soul that sinneth, it shall die. When the Lord starts to judge your soul, you start dying. If there is no manifestation of Christ, in you, for you to live out of, you will be destroyed off of the earth. Can you hear that or did I confuse you?
Comment: I was thinking that if I was fruitless I would be cut off on the judgment day. What you are saying is Christ is judging me, he is judging Adam in me, and if I do not repent, I get cut off and die.
Pastor Vitale: There are two different questions here. Who is the dead fruit that gets cut off? Let me go back to the dead fruit that gets cut off.
This is one creation. It is one living soul with many members, just like that tree. There are some human beings on the face of the earth that are born spiritually barren. Everything that happens in the natural is a type of something to help us understand spiritual principles. There are barren women in the world. They cannot have children. There are barren women throughout the scriptures that could not bear children. The way our society was years ago, their husband would divorce them, because children were very important. There are human beings on the face of the earth who cannot bear Christ. They are spiritually barren. The Lord goes into this in the parable of the soils. There is only one kind of soil that will bear forth the fruit of Christ. In all the other vessels there is something spiritually malformed about them, that they cannot bring forth Christ. What does cutting them off mean? It means that they will live the rest of their natural life without producing the fruit of Christ. The mind of man would say you are going to get cut off and you are going to go to hell, and all these terrible things are going to happen to you. No, it is not true. What happens to a barren woman in the natural? She lives out her life and she dies without ever having produced a child. They could live a very comfortable life. You are not going to be tormented. They were just born in a spiritual condition where they could not bring forth fruit. What cutting off means is that there just will not be any offspring. Did I make that clear?
Comment: Could you explain judging the soul a little bit more? I am understanding that the white throne judgment is not one big day now. It is the judgment of the soul in each individual person after Christ is conceived in them.
Pastor Vitale: Yes, after Christ is conceived, because remember that your soul must die. Also remember your spiritual life is not your whole body. There is something within your soul that is called your human spirit. She is the potential to bring forth Christ. That is what your life is. The Lord wants to get that life substance away from Adam and Satan, and bring her safely into his soul. Can you understand that? Look at it this way. This woman is married to this wicked man, and he is abusing her, and destroying her. Before the hero can marry her, he has got to get her away from the bad guy. The judgment of your soul is Jesus Christ inflicting stripes upon you. What is your soul made up out of? Adam, Eve, and Satan, and they are all joined together. They are fused together, and they are one. Jesus Christ comes, and he wages war and inflicts stripes upon your adamic soul. Why? It is to break the three elements apart, and lay hold of that which is your true life, which is spirit. We cannot conceive of it. Jesus lays hold of it and brings it into his life. Then he burns whatever is left of Adam and Satan. They are going to get burnt and cast into the lake of fire.
Now if he breaks you free, and gets you loose from Adam and Satan, and there is no city of refuge for you to run to, your whole vessel will die. You will cease to be. So he is not going to judge your soul until the place of safety is erected. The place of safety is his life coming forth in you. That is why we have many Christians in the church that God never seems to touch them. I have heard people complain about this to me. I have all these trials in my life, and all these terrible things are happening to me. All of these people go to church every Sunday. They sing and they dance, and their kids are healthy, and their marriages are happy, and they have got good jobs, and nothing ever goes wrong in their life. Then they turn around, and they condemn me, and they tell me that I am in sin. This is what is going on in the church. I say to anybody that says this to me, they are spiritual children that have not yet been touched by God. When you have a one year old baby, do you expect him to go to work and pay board? He mostly just plays and eats all day. That is what he does.
God has children of all ages. There are many children that are truly children of God in the church, but the judgment has not touched them yet. They, being immature, condemn those believers who God has touched like He touched Job. The end of His touching you will be that He shall be magnified and glorified in you. Do not let any man despise you. This is a big problem in the church. We cannot tell what somebody’s spiritual age is by looking at them. It does not necessarily have anything to do with their human age, so we have people in the church that can be in their 30's or 40's. They could be physically mature. They can be intellectually mature, be doctors, lawyers, successful business men, the great ones of this earth. Our carnal minds say they must be spiritually mature, but they do not have to be. One thing has nothing to do with the other. You can have on one side of the room a very successful doctor wearing a $400 suit, very personable, very likeable, and he could be a spiritual baby.
You can have at the other end of the room a very poor person, a person that has been really hurt by life, whose soul has been ripped by the lions. They have had all kinds of tragedy in their life, and the carnal mind looks at them and says put them in the back of the church. I do not want anyone to see this person in my church, and they could have a mature Christ in them. This is where we must get the mind of Christ, because the carnal mind is dead to spiritual things. How do we discern the spiritual maturity of a human being? It is through the words that they speak, and through their behavior. A lot of Christians speak a good game, but they do not live it. You have to have both witnesses. They have to speak with the maturity of Christ. How do you know what is the maturity of Christ? Well, that is a little tough. You have to seek God, and get a witness in your heart. One thing is for sure, they have to love the brethren. By this you shall know that you are my disciples, that you shall love one another. That you follow the commands of Jesus, that you will forgive one another, that you will build up people and not tear them down, that you cease from envy and strife, and attaching yourself to teachers, pastors, or to groups, and not saying I am of Apollos, and I am of another teacher. We all are of Christ.
All of these are signs of maturity. You can be assigned to a teacher for a season, but to have allegiance to your teacher, in that you will get into an altercation with another teacher, this is carnality. There is a lack of maturity there. I have met a lot of people that talk a good game, and then you find out what their private life is like. Of course, if you see somebody in hunger and habitual sin, that is a real indication of a spiritual immaturity, like habitually fornicating, habitually committing adultery, habitually hating their brother. You know anybody can be provoked, and have a bad moment, where with their voice they say something unkind to somebody. We are all human, but what do you do after you lose it? Do you go to the person? Do you apologize? Do you work out the problem? Do you end up loving each other? Would you separate, and say I do not want to ever see that person again? She is evil and I am good. What do you say? Well, we are just human, and we had a problem, and we are going to work it out. This is how you tell who is mature in Christ.
In this hour the body of Christ is being built, and there are a lot of inconsistencies. We find a lot of people to whom God had imparted very deep doctrine, not being able to love their brother. They are very lifted up in pride. Pride is a sign of immaturity, and lifting yourself up above your fellow Christian is pride, because we are all equal in Christ. Anything that we have is given by God. There is a respect required in the church for those in whom Christ is manifesting in a greater degree, who the Lord may have raised up as a teacher. But if that teacher is requiring an ungodly submission from you, then it probably is not Christ. We have got to get the mind of Christ. Pray for discernment. If you do not have it, pray for discernment. Do you hear what I am saying? There are only two categories. There is God and man. Anything that man has is given to him. You have nothing to be proud of. However, some people that are immature in Christ, will take what I just said and say, well we do not have pride, and very single member of the church is the same as the other one, and I do not have to have any man teach me. All of these false doctrines go forth. God has teachers. God has evangelists. God has prophets. God has sons. God has His people, and you are required to discern His Spirit wherever He manifests. Did I make that clear? The bottom line is there is Christ and there is man. Anything that man has is given.
Comment: In the prophesy you said the Lord was saying that we have to judge between good and evil in the brother, and we have to resist the sin, and look at Christ. Right? You said in one of your messages about immaturity and evil, that God looks at immaturity as evil. Are we also required to look at this immaturity in the brother and resist it?
Pastor Vitale: Well, we are to resist it if it is affecting us. I am not really sure what you mean. Resist it in what way?
Comment: I mean are we supposed to judge it like we judge a sin and resist it, in that way?
Pastor Vitale: I do not know what you mean. Let me say this. We are to judge out of the mind of Christ. See, this is the bottom line in this hour. We have two minds, and the Lord is challenging us to live out of Christ. If we are in our adamic carnality and we judge somebody, there is sure to be condemnation associated with it. That person is saved five years and they are still drinking. I am not going to have anything to do with them. That is a sin, and you need to repent. If Christ rises up in you, and says that person is saved five years, and is still drinking. Why Lord? Is there anything I can do to help? What is wrong? How can this be? Have mercy on them, Lord. What is the problem? That is Christ, and that is a righteous judgment, and that is not sin. The chances are excellent that the Lord will either give you a word for them or put a prayer in your heart for them, or anoint you to help them.
That is the judgment between good and evil. It is the judgment as to whether or not an individual is manifesting Christ or manifesting out of Adam. We must learn to tell the difference, because lots of times our adamic mind does very nice things. Lots of times our adamic mind preaches. Sometimes he will even prophecy. It is called false prophesy. That is just Adam coming forth with a false prophesy. Lots of times Adam invites you to dinner. Lots of times Adam says how pretty you are today. The judgment between good and evil is not between good and evil as man sees it. Evil to God is living out of your adamic personality. He wants us to live out of Christ. Come up higher, He is saying. Come up higher. When He says judge between good and evil, we are to look into men’s motives. Why did I tell you that your dress is beautiful? Was it Christ blessing you, or is it an adamic spirit that is flattering you? We are commanded not to flatter one another for an evil motive.
If we do see someone who is flattering you in Adam, what do you do with the knowledge? Do you become afraid? Do you run away from the person? No. You say, Lord, I just recognized Adam. Would you please help that person to come up higher because the whole creation is being called up higher? Is there anything I can do to help? Is there anything I can do to bless? Is there anything they need to hear that I know that I could say to them? There is nothing to be afraid of. We all get into trouble because we hear what God says, but it means something different to us than it means to God. I know I was at a deliverance service once, and it was in a church where there was a lot of freedom for whoever wanted to participate to go up. This poor woman had submitted herself to deliverance. It is a very brave thing to do, to go into a church with a hundred people, and admit that you might have a demon, and you want it cast out of you. You sit down on a chair, and everybody gathers around you. Someone came up from behind her, and spoke in tongues to this woman and started pulling her hair, saying come out in the name of Jesus. She was ripping the hair out of this woman. It took three other believers to get the woman, that was pulling her hair, off of the other woman.
Now this woman who was pulling the hair, she is born again, and she speaks in tongues. Her carnal mind told her that when you cast out a demon, you pull the person’s hair. God never told her that. The Scripture says it is good to get wisdom, but be sure to get understanding. Understanding is very important. I pray all the time for understanding because I need Christ’s understanding. I do not need my own understanding. My understanding is going to kill me. In this last hour, everything that God is doing is pointed to helping each other live out of Christ, and destroying Adam in our own mind, who if we do not destroy him, he is going to destroy us. If we discern something ungodly in somebody, it is not to get them. It is not to gossip about them. It is not to say aha, look at her. You are to go before the Lord and say what can I do to help? It is grow up time. The church is filled with spiritual children. There is no condemnation in that either, but the word must go out that there is more to this thing than speaking in tongues, going to church on Sunday, and dancing in the Spirit. God wants us to start living Christ. He wants us to start living this Bible. He says after you have been strengthened, strengthen the weak. Go back to what you came out of, and get the others out. We are supposed to be one body, but we all know what is going on in the church today. It is no secret to anybody.
Comment: How do you know when you are manifesting just the gifts of the Holy Ghost, and the baptism of the Holy Ghost, or if you have conceived Christ?
Pastor Vitale: Well, the gifts and the baptism with the Holy Spirit are without repentance, so you will find the combination. Now you have to realize there is no set rules. I am giving you a generalization now.
You cannot go to anybody and say, I see you and you are this way or that way. That is not the purpose of this, but by and large, if you have the Holy Ghost, and you have not yet conceived Christ, there is unconfessed sin in your life, because the baptism with the Holy Spirit and the gifts of God are without repentance. You may find somebody that thinks, well I am very gifted, and I pray for people, and they get healed, and I do all these wonderful things. Usually they think it is their power, but not all the time. They do not realize that until they are perfect, as their Father in heaven is perfect, that they are required to have an ongoing confession of sin, and to get better and better and better, as the Lord reveals sin in our own heart, to confess it, and repent, and rise above it. It has to be an ongoing process. That is one sign. It is very hard to tell for sure. It is easier to tell when someone has conceived Christ. Usually they are striving very hard to lead a holy life. The gospel of the kingdom is operating in them, and usually their discernment is intensified. But you really have to ask the Lord; Lord, who are they? Who is that person spiritually? Are they moving in Christ, or are they moving in Adam? It is very hard. Please do not go labeling anybody, because even if you discern something, you do not know where they are going to be the next week or the next month. The whole church is hopefully maturing upward into Christ, so there should never be condemnation.
Comment: The apostle Paul said, I travail until Christ be formed in you. Is Christ being formed in us the same thing as what you are talking about, him being conceived in us?
Pastor Vitale: Yes. The exact replica of the spiritual life that dwelt in the man, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, is going to be formed in us.
You know, everything that the living soul does, when he tries to imitate Christ, it becomes perverse. You may have heard of something called a clone. It is a terrible thing to the mind of man to be called a clone because what it means is to be made an exact duplicate. It is as if there would be fifteen of you, exactly like you. They look exactly like you. They think exactly like you. They have no mind of their own. If you watch science fiction, they call them androids. They are exactly like you. It is a horrible thought to a human being to be exactly like somebody else, but that is what Christ is doing to us. He is going to make us exactly like him, but in Christ it is going to be glorious. In humanity it is a nightmare to think I would be living in a society with everybody exactly like me, but Christ is cloning us. If you look up those words it says we are going to be made in his image. We are in his likeness now in that we are spirit, but his image has to be engraved upon our souls, and we are going to be exactly like him. That is why when he is in full stature, there will be no more arguments. Strife and conflict will cease to exist. We are going to have total agreement. We all are going to look at that flower, and we all are going to see the same thing. We all are going to look at the Scripture, and we all are going to see the same thing. There will be absolutely no difference in our minds. To the mind of man that is a nightmare, but in Christ it is going to be glorious. I cannot comprehend it totally myself. I just know that if you look up the word image, that is what it means, an exact replica. It is like you would have a tool that would stamp out cookies, the same exact cookie every time. That is what we are going to be, but it is going to be good, not bad.
Comment: A friend told me that the adamic soul is the bottomless pit. Is that true? I do not understand that completely, but if it is true that it is a pit, then to think that there would be replicas of Adam, it would be horrible. Can you explain what the bottomless pit is?
Pastor Vitale: Well that is what the human race is, replicas of Adam. Concerning the bottomless pit, the living soul has an unlimited capacity to be evil, if there were no manifestation of Christ in the earth.
However, there has always been a manifestation of Christ in the earth. There has been the Bible, His word, even more than that, when He put Adam to sleep, and He said, thou shalt not partake of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, in those few words in the Scripture, the Lord spoke the creative word, and impressed upon his genes and his chromosomes a knowledge of God’s spiritual law. You can go anywhere in the world, go out in the farthest jungles, and you find little societies where they know to take care of the children. They know it is wrong to murder. They know it is wrong to steal somebody’s food. They know it is wrong to rape a woman. Where do they get this knowledge from? They cannot read. They cannot write. They have a very limited society. Where do they get this knowledge from? The Lord impressed it in the chromosomes of man at the dawn of time.
There is always a manifestation of Christ in the earth, but because of curses on the family line, and other problems, and of course a lack of the word of God, man has the potential to walk away from the law of God, and continue to fall into deeper and deeperdegradation until he becomes like an animal. That is why the pit is bottomless. There is no end to the degradation that we can enter into in our mind if there is nothing restraining us, if there is no one praying for us, if there is no word of God. If there was a little boy who grew up, and somewhere in his lifetime, someone spoke the word of God to him, but then he got into terrible, terrible trouble. He was kidnaped or he wound up in child male prostitution. Somewhere along the line, his heart cried out to God, and he remembered a verse of the Scripture, and started saying it over and over. Somehow the Lord will work through that, and start to lift him out.
Comment: So the bottomless pit is not forever.
Pastor Vitale: It is until the living soul comes to an end.
Comment: Through the word of Christ, the person can be lifted up out of the bottomless pit?
Pastor Vitale: Yes, you come up out of the pit by resisting the adamic mind and starting to agree with the mind of Christ. You can be in a pit of homosexuality. You can be in a pit of prostitution. Wherever your body is, your mind has put you there.
You see, this world is a mirror image of the realm of the spirit. We are the negative element of the creation. Jesus is the positive element and when we are joined together, we are going to be a complete atom with a positive and a negative charge. But man is negative, so we see spiritual things backwards. Jesus sees them right. We see them backwards. Now man thinks that where your body is, that is where your mind is. But Jesus says, where your mind is, that is where your body is. So your mind goes down into the pit, and what happens to your body? It winds up in a white slave ring. It winds up on the bowery. It winds up in promiscuity. It winds up in drug addiction. Why? It is because your mind fell. Your mind comes up out of the pit, and what happens to your body? You stop putting needles in it. You stop putting the alcohol in it. You stop going with a different man every night. It is in the mind. It is all in the mind.
That is why Jesus said, do not look at your circumstances. Get your head straight, and almost every problem that a human being could have is a result of wrong thinking. That is why we read the Scripture. If you have a problem, see if you can find that problem in the Scripture, or see if God will lead you to someone who could help you to locate it in the Scripture. See what the Scripture says about it, and compare what the Scripture says to your thinking, and change your thinking to what the Scripture says. It does not always happen overnight, but your life will change. God is not mocked. You shall surely reap what you have sown. If you sow to the word of God, if you sow to righteousness, you shall surely reap righteousness. Unfortunately, as human beings, we like to see it happen much more quickly, but things are slow. It takes awhile for the spiritual change to work out into this realm of appearance. That is just the way it is. Glory to God.
Comment: You were saying something about how we feel when we think it is God telling us to do certain things. You gave the example about the woman who cast out the demon of another lady with her carnal mind. Could that be that she heard a familiar spirit telling her that?
Pastor Vitale: Familiar spirits are a part of the carnal mind. The carnal mind is the name for the whole and it is made up of many parts, which are demons, or spirits, or familiar spirits.
Comment: I was told about a girl who had a dream that a dark man had raped her continuously, and she was allowing it, and she began to like it. The interpretation that I got was that Satan was continuously raping her mind, and she was weak, but she also had lust, and he was seducing her, and she was liking it. My question is what if Satan is seducing your mind against your will, and you want out of it, but you do not know what to do?
Pastor Vitale: The first thing that you have to do is develop a relationship with Jesus Christ. There is no out. There is no way in this world out, except through a relationship with Jesus Christ. Once you have a relationship with Jesus Christ, you have to go before him, and ask him to direct you to someone, who he will anoint to pray, to break whatever curses are necessary to be broken. If it is necessary to have demons cast out of you, you will have to submit to that. It is a slow process. Your ungodly thoughts that are raping your mind have to be exchanged for the thoughts of Christ. Little by little, you will find your mind strengthened as you move in God. But I will tell you this, for anybody that is really troubled in their mind, you really have to get sold out to Jesus. If you want this kind of deliverance, you have to give your life to Jesus.
The only thing that is free is he gives you his Holy Spirit. Salvation is a free gift, but from that point on, you are required to use it like a weapon. You have to fight your way out of this mess that you are in. Some people feel I was born into some mess here, and the other person was not. All that I could say is, try not to be bitter towards God. First of all, to be bitter towards God is a sin, but there is a positive side to it. The harder your life is, the more likely you are to turn to Christ. He will definitely be glorified in your travail and in your trouble. He will definitely be glorified in it. He did not come to those who do not need him. He did not come for them. I used to work in Manhattan with all these people with big executive jobs, and their $400 suits, with so much money and waste. What a spirit of pride over that whole city of Manhattan. It is disgusting. Jesus did not come to them. He came to save the broken hearted. He came to set the captive free, the spiritual captive, the one that is captive in their mind. That is who he has come for.
It is a spiritual mystery. You think that your life is dealt such an unhappy blow, but he is going to be glorified in you. You could be one of the first in whom he is going to appear. The new age has started already. I do not believe in an occultish new age. The new age is Jesus Christ. He is going to appear publicly where everybody can see him. The new age has started, but as a new day, he is just a glimmer coming up over the horizon. A lot of people, even in the church, cannot see him, but he is going to ascend to high noon, and the whole world will see him in his day. In that hour, all of these people that seem to be on top of the world now, with all of their pride, and all of their ungodliness, they will see Christ, and they will be locked out. There is going to be an exchange. Jesus said, he who is last is going to be first, and he who is first is going to be last. If you are in a position of pain right now, take heart, because he will be glorified. He will. Just turn towards him with all that you have got, and he will set you free. Glory to God.
Comment: He will become a physical person and come as one person?
Pastor Vitale: Yes, as a physical person, but he is appearing in a many membered body. He is going to be one spiritual person, but he is going to be appearing in many individuals. He is appearing in many individuals right now, but he is not in full stature.
You came in a little late, but there was really a beautiful manifestation of him. He just went from the music ministry to the testimony ministry, to the prophetic ministry, and everybody here was flowing with the Spirit. Nobody was standing up trying to take control of the meeting. I do not know whether you saw it or not, but I saw him manifesting. He manifested there, he manifested there, he was just bouncing around like a light wave. The Lord told me that he was drawing whoever he would bring in, and this is the way it is going to be in his life. People are just going to be where he wants them to be. I know that he has been dealing with me with my carnal mind, because now I am in full time ministry. I wake up in the morning, and in this ministry there is a lot of office work. I will wake up, and I will have it in my head that I cannot stand the way that office looks. He had to get a hold of me one day, and he said sit down, I am not through talking to you yet. I have someone else I want you to pray for. Stop worrying about what the office looks like, and do what I tell you. He rebuked me, and now I get up in the morning, and I stand rebuked, and I say, Lord, what do you want me to do? Do you want me to study? Do you want me to pray? Do you want me to look at that mess, because I get nauseous every time I look at it? At this point, I am praying to the Lord, help me to cope with what the office looks like, because it looks like it is going to be like that. It is never going to be completely cleaned up, so I am not fighting it anymore.
Comment: I know about getting into those situations. When I am not taking care of my household duties, and running for people, running for things, things of God I am talking about, and not things of the world, the Lord says He never fails. He says, do not worry, I will take care of that too. Somehow, the other things in the household get done. As long as you put His things first, then the other things just get done. They fall into place. Somehow, like you just get a burst of energy or someone will just come over and help you with things that you feel very burdened about. He takes that burden.
Pastor Vitale: He is teaching us to follow after His Spirit.
This happened when I first started preaching. I will never live this down, but one day there was an incredible outpouring of His light. It was so thick that some of us could discern the cloud. It was like walking through a fog. In those days the format of the meetings were different. I studied on the average of six or seven hours a night, and I presented a very formal message, which I am not doing now. It is the exact opposite now. I had studied six hours the night before, and I wanted to preach that message. I thought He was finished, but it was just my own carnal mind pressing through. Well, the people are not going to want to sit here for four hours if I do not preach, so let me preach this message, and the anointing withdrew. When I sought the Lord on it, He said to me, I did not tell you to preach. I do not care if you studied ten hours. Maybe I wanted to do something else today. It was very embarrassing. Thank God, I do not think it has happened again since then, but He wants to run the show. He wants to run our individual lives. He wants to run ministry, and that is why as we move into the new day, the push is away from large groups with two hundred people. When you have two hundred people it is difficult for them to discern the Spirit.
I do not want you to think that I am knocking the other churches because I really am not. We are a mature group here, and we are sensitive to the Spirit. But when you get two hundred baby Christians that cannot discern the Spirit, you have to tell them, sit down in your seat and now we are going to sing, and now we are going to preach, and now there is going to be a prayer line. That is what you have to do with them because they cannot discern the Spirit. The church is supposed to be growing up. Those of us who are growing up, the Lord is breaking down into smaller groups, where He can have the liberty of manifesting His Spirit. See, there is only one pastor in this room. His name is the Lord Jesus Christ. Now He may raise someone up at a particular time. Now I am running the meeting, because you have to have some form of order, but believe me, if I were to stop being useful to Him, He would take me down, because He is running the show.
This is the new move of God. It is the new age and it is happening all over. Maybe, eventually, we will be meeting in larger groups if everybody yields to the Spirit. You cannot have chaos in a meeting. You have got to have order. If you are spiritual enough to yield to His Spirit, then He does not have to raise somebody up to put you in a box, and tell you where to sit, and do all the things that they do in the realms where the younger children are the kingdom. Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty, but if your carnal mind rises up and treads the Spirit of God underfoot, then you do not have liberty anymore. Then you are under the law. Sit down in your seat, you see. You can have liberty as long as you are not abusing the law. When you become lawless, you have to get a law put on you. Can you imagine the whole world with billions of people in submission to the Lord? It would be fantastic, just fantastic, with no one striving with one another. Hallelujah.
Comment: I wanted to say something earlier when we were talking about being a clone of Christ. Could you make that a little clearer, because the world thinks of a clone like that movie, “The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.” Every single person does not deviate at all, like there is no difference. In my heart, I feel like the worldly way is an error. We are different, the way we express ourselves, the tone of our voice, but is it the Christ, in us, that is going to be the same, and we will have a different way of expressing ourselves?
Pastor Vitale: We will each be in the exact image of Christ, but we will also be in submission to that image. He will manifest differently through each of us, but it will be His doing. We will be in submission, just like earlier. He was singing through one person. He was playing through another person. He was asking questions through a third person, and answering the questions through a fourth person, but it was all Christ. Everybody was in submission to Christ. That is where the variation would be. He, whose variation is infinite, will be playing us like an instrument, and manifesting though all of us. But everything that will be done will be coming forth from His righteousness. There will be no unrighteousness. Does that help? I do not have a full understanding of it myself.
Comment: The adamic nature is where each one of us expresses Adam in a different way, but it is the same adamic nature. It is the reverse with Christ. I suppose that it would be like that, each of us being filled with the righteousness of the Lord, knowing His mind, but expressing it on different levels, right?
Pastor Vitale: No, it is going to be Christ playing us like an instrument. See, this is a real problem for the carnal mind. We are going to die. We are going to come into full servitude to Christ, but again the thought in the natural of coming into full servitude to somebody is terrible, being somebody’s slave. But in the Spirit, in the life of God, it is going to be a better lifestyle than anything we could ever achieve in this world, being in total servitude to Him. Everything we do will be Him,in us,but right now it is us doing it. That is why the world is in all the trouble that it is in. Even those that call themselves Christians, but that are not following after His lead, even they are in trouble.
I was speaking to somebody last night, who is trying to witness to someone. They really want them to be converted because they are dating that non-Christian person. This person said to me, how do I do it? What do I say? She keeps getting angry, and gets into fights with me. I said, of course she is mad at you. You are trying to force her into something she does not want. This is a Christian man, but that is not Christ forcing that young woman to do what he wants her to do. That is his carnal mind. This is a very hard issue for some people. The man is a Christian. He is anointed. He speaks in tongues. I have seen Christ manifested in him, but in this situation, it is not Christ. It is his carnal mind. You know, the world stumbles at that. The world looks at us, and they say, but you are a Christian. Why are you getting me all upset for, trying to force yourself on me? You are beating me over my head with your Bible. I do not want any part of your Christianity. They do not understand that; that it is not Christ. That is Adam with a religious spirit. (Laughter)
Christ does not do that. Christ is very gentle. He said to me, how do you witness to people? I said, the way the Lord has taught me to witness to people, is that He puts me in a relationship with them. I live in that relationship with them. I laugh with them. I cry with them. I visit with them. I go shopping with them. When the Lord opens the door to the Spirit, to say something to them, that is when I say it, and they hear it, but it could be once a month. You have to have an ongoing relationship with them. You cannot come to somebody and say, now you believe it now. They never will believe. To want someone to get saved because you want them to be your girlfriend, that is the worse reason you could pick. We have Christians that are not living out of Christ, but that is coming to an end. That is coming to an end, and the hour is now at hand, that the Lord is starting to bring His church into His submission. Of course, accompanying that, what is going to bring the church into submission to Him is the great tribulation. It is going to be very painful. The more you understand this, the more willing you are to go with Him. We are four mothers here. When the doctor says, when you push, you are going to go easy. If you push when your doctor says do not push, you are only working against yourself. Paul said in the Scriptures, they are those who are opposing themselves. You are not working with God, you are working against God.
Comment: When you talk about the new day and when Christ’s image is coming forth in us, there are people walking that way today. Is that not true?
Pastor Vitale: There are people walking that way today, but nobody that I know of, is walking that way one hundred percent of the time. They are going in and out, but the day is coming when it will be one hundred percent of the time.
Comment: When the image of Christ is filling their body and their soul, and when we are walking in one accord like that, is that the day when there will be no sickness and no tears? Will that be the day that we will all be walking in perfect victory over our carnal body and carnal mind?
Pastor Vitale: The body is just a slave. It will be the mind of Christ. It is not the same day as everybody. We are coming one at a time.
Comment: Okay, that is what I wanted to know, but will that be the day of total victory?
Pastor Vitale: When we enter fully into His soul, there will be an exchange of souls, because all sickness, and all death, and all torment is in Adam. When we are freed, we will be like prisoners of war. We are like people who were in the Nazi concentration camps. Now the war ended, but they were still waiting for the army to come and get them out of the camp. The war ended when Jesus ascended to the Father after being crucified and rising from the dead. The war ended, but we are still in the concentration camp, and we are waiting for the liberating forces to come to get us out.
Comment: Are those people that the Lord has chosen, or people that are willing, out of their own will, to submit to him totally? Is there a difference? In other words, did the Lord choose you to come to that place in Him, or is it everyone?
Pastor Vitale: In this hour, I believe there is a chosen group. They are called the firstfruits company. However, the Scripture says if there is somebody out there that is not called to this firstfruits group, if they by some chance can see it, which is very hard, because it would be very rare for the carnal mind to comprehend this, the Lord can say come. If there is someone out there that is not chosen, and they see this, and they comprehend it, and they petition the Lord, He is God and He can break the dispensation, and say, you can come. I give you permission.
Comment: You said for the last person on earth to come into Christ’s fullness, it would take fifteen hundred years. Did you perceive it or did the Lord say it, or is there a scripture for it?
Pastor Vitale: I think it is going to be about fifteen hundred years. No, it is in the Scripture.
Comment: Where does the thirty, sixty and hundred fold come in? Is it a stage in our walk?
Pastor Vitale: The thirty fold is likened to Passover. You see, God draws us. It is a stage in our maturing into Christ.
Comment: I was confused. I was under the impression that, that was to be a judgment day.
Pastor Vitale: No, it is happening now.
Comment: So everyone will have a one hundred fold?
Pastor Vitale: Ultimately. Now this is a very heavy question. The Lord has to anoint me to answer these questions simply.
Ultimately, the whole creation is being saved. God made one living soul, and right now that living soul is producing many leaves. We are each a leaf on that tree. Does anyone have a problem with that? The whole living soul, the root of the tree, and the trunk of the tree is being saved, but there are some leaves on the tree that are not going to be saved, because in this hour it is not the season. There is a time and a season for everything. There is an hour coming. See, the tree goes in cycles. It produces leaves. The leaves fall off and they die. The next season it produces a new crop of leaves. But the day is coming that the tree is going to be in full bloom, and something is going to happen, and those leaves are not going to drop off, and it is going to be that way without withering, without getting old, in the fullness of its glory for the life of the ages. In this hour, it is not the time to perfect that tree. So there are going to be leaves, or human beings, that are not going to come into it in this year, because it is not the season for the entire creation to be perfected, but that day is coming. The Bible talks about that day. There is an hour coming, a time coming, where it is going to be the right time where the Spirit of Christ is going to go forth in the earth, and every human being on the face of the earth, that is living in that hour, is going to be perfected, and there will be no more death.
Comment: The scripture that says we shall not all die, but we shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye. Is that the scripture along these lines that explains that? We will be caught up by the realm of the Spirit, and we will be here, but we will not die anymore?
Pastor Vitale: I do not see how that relates to that.
Comment: We were talking about living out of the fullness of Christ. Well, there is a firstfruits company, and they will become the full manifested sons of God in the earth. Then they are going to bring the others in the earth into the full manifestation? So we can abide in this fullness even though the others are not there yet? But Paul could not come in without us because it was not the right season.
Pastor Vitale: Oh yes. It was not the right season for Paul.
Comment: Then Paul said we shall not all die, but we shall all be changed. I think it is in Thessalonians. Some do not die. You are talking that these are the sons of God that will not die, when they come into the fullness of Christ. I was thinking along those lines that, that was what it meant.
Pastor Vitale: I do not understand. Try me again. I am sorry. I really do not understand what you are asking me. Can anybody explain it to me?
Comment: In Thessalonians it says not all will sleep. The dead in Christ will rise first, and those of us who remain unto the coming of the Lord will be caught up with them together in the clouds. Are these the ones that remain that do not die? Is that the last generation you say is fifteen hundred years from now? Is that the generation that comes into that fold that does not die?
Pastor Vitale: I really cannot answer your question, but I have a message where I do all of those scriptures word by word in the Greek. I do not want to put something in this message that might be an error. I really do not remember enough of what is on that message to answer the questions. I do not know offhand, but I could look it up for you.
Comments: A lot of people have thought it was the rapture. What does it really mean? The word rapture is not in the Bible. Caught up is in the Bible. What does this really mean in the Spirit? Our carnal minds thought we were geographically going up from this earth.
Pastor Vitale: We talked about this earlier. The carnal mind of man thinks that the mind goes where the body goes, but that is not true. The body goes where the mind goes. What is being caught up is our mind. We are being caught up into the higher mind of Christ. When our mind gets caught up into Christ, shortly thereafter our body shall ascend to a place where it no longer gets sick or dies. There is no such word as rapture in the Scripture, but as just a point of reconciliation with anybody that believes in the rapture, I say to you that I believe in the rapture, but I do not believe your body is getting raptured. I believe your soul is getting raptured. Your soul is getting caught up. We are going to have this body for quite a while, but eventually, when the creation is brought into perfection, we will not have this vile body. We will have a glorious body that does not get sick, that does not die, and does not do a lot of other things. This is a fallen body. We are a fallen creation.
Comment: I always thought that we were going to lose this flesh.
Pastor Vitale: We are not going to lose it. It is going to be converted into a spiritualized body.
Comment: My two youngest children go to Catholic school. Their conception of learning is different than my beliefs. I do not like to confuse them. I try to make it as simple as I can. One of my children asked me what happens when I die? I told them that they will live on forever with their spirit, not with their body. So we do lose our body?
Pastor Vitale: True. I did not understand what you were saying. There are two different conditions. If we are living in the season before Christ is caught up into full stature, our body will die, and our soul will die, but that which we are, our spiritual life, our spiritual substance will go on forever with Christ.
Comment: Another one of my children had asked me this. Those that are still here will witness Jesus come on this earth with their flesh, and then they will be transformed.
Pastor Vitale: Are you talking about that scripture in Job where he says I will stand on this earth, and in my flesh I will see them? Is that the scripture you are talking about?
Comment: It could be. I cannot think of it right now, but I remember reading different scriptures.
Pastor Vitale: It is in Job. I cannot quote it to you exactly, but is sounds something like in my flesh I shall see my saviour. I believe what that scripture means is that he is going to see his saviour in his flesh because Jesus is appearing in man. Every man that saith that Jesus cometh not in the saints, he is an anti-christ.
Comment: It is confusing for my children when the Catholic school teaches them differently. Their minds are so easily formed and changed. They say Christ will come.
Pastor Vitale: Do not make it any more complicated than it is. He is coming. Only answer their questions. Do not say any more than they ask you because they are very young. The Lord is bringing forth such deep revelation in this hour. How do you explain it to children? I do not even know the answer.
Comment: I have a sixteen year old too, who is not a child.
Pastor Vitale: You never know what kind of spiritual preparation someone has done in your child’s heart. Someone brought their 21 year old son to one of my meetings once, when I was teaching. If you have heard any of these messages, they really are deep. We did that for three years. We made this really deep message. When she went home she said to her son, did you know what she was talking about? Her son said, yes I knew what she was talking about.
Comment: That is why they are asking me the questions. They want more information, but they will be satisfied with whatever I say.
Comment: You said this in your message, Thy Neighbors Landmark. They have prepared themselves a garment for when they lose that garment. Their spiritual substance goes into their children. Is that the same thing as what you are talking about in the messages on Grass with multiple incarnations?
Pastor Vitale: I do not know whether it is me or not, but I am not understanding your question.
I do agree with you that when we do have children, spiritual life is passed on to future generations. We live in future generations. The most ideal example is that the spiritual life of Jesus Christ of Nazareth dwelt in the earth in one man. He dwelt in the life of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, and that man, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, no longer lives. He was crucified, resurrected, and ascended to the Father. But the spiritual life that he was dwells today where? In his children. The Lord has prolonged his seed, and he is living in you, and he is living in you, and he is living in me. We are the next generation. The spiritual life that poured out when he was crucified is living in us. The same thing happens in the natural. When this soul and body is crushed, that which is of my substance goes on in my daughter. That is how we continue in the earth. But I do not know how you want me to relate it to your question.
Comment: Is that multiple reincarnations?
Pastor Vitale: Well, that is multiple reincarnations of the spiritual life that goes from generation to generation. The spiritual life that was in Jesus Christ of Nazareth was one generation, and is now living in the next generation. It is more than one generation, more than one incarnation, for the spiritual life of Jesus Christ. Does anyone have a problem with that? Anyone reading this message, we do not believe in reincarnation in this ministry. Do not panic. Do not stop reading the message. Do not throw the eggs. We do not believe in reincarnation, but Jesus Christ of Nazareth is now living in the second generation of his life.
Comment: I have another question with what you just said. Jesus appeared in his body after he resurrected. He can appear in a glorified body if he wants to, but he can also go into a realm where we cannot see him, and spread himself out through his sons.
Pastor Vitale: Yes, he can, and right now he is sprinkling on all of his sons. This is the reason why he is choosing in this hour to not appear in a glorified body that can disappear in your midst. Does anybody not know what I am talking about when I say glorified body? It is a body that can travel through time and space, that is not restricted as this body is. The reason he is choosing to not live in a body like that now is because he has had offspring, and right now he is busy bringing forth his image in all of us. When all of us get resurrected from the dead, and ascend to the Father, he is going to have one spiritual body that will appear or not appear, or take different forms. Did I make that clear? The reason he is not doing it now is because he is repeating the work in us that was done in Jesus Christ of Nazareth. He is doing something else now, but eventually, we all are going to have that kind of body. We are going to be one body of Christ, that is going to appear and disappear, and travel in the Spirit, and do all things when the work is finished. He is still creating. Did I answer your question?
We did a series on the whole Chapter of Daniel 7. We went into the Hebrew and looked up every single one of those words. I have forgotten the phraseology in that chapter. Of course, it was talking about Jesus Christ. When you look up all the Hebrew words, we found it says that he is the one that has matured spiritually to the point that he can live in this earth realm without an earth body. Today, if I were hit by a car, this human body of mine would die. I do believe Christ is dwelling in me, not in full stature, but I believe he is being formed in me. If this body were hit by a car, and my heart stopped pumping, he would die in me. He would die because he is not mature in me yet to live without this body. He would continue to live in you, and in you, and in you, but the manifestation of Christ that is coming forth in me would cease to be. It is not that it goes, but it goes into Christ who is dwelling in the earth. It would be in my daughter. It would be in you. It would be in the whole body of Christ.
It would cleave unto the rest of the Spirit. Think of it like a rubber band, and part of that rubber band is stretched out of me. When this body dies, it would just be released, and it would spring into wherever it is directed. See, Christ is not divided. There is just one Spirit of Christ. He is sitting like a cloud upon all of us. If my body ceased to be, he would still be sitting like a cloud on everybody else. That little drop of him that is in me would just be a part of the cloud. Can you hear that? It is very hard because we think of him as being inside of us. So you say if I die, where does that drop that is in me go to? Try and think of him as a cloud, and think of us as trees. His cloud is resting upon the whole body of Christ. We think he is inside of us. He is inside of us, but he is also outside of us. That drop of him that is in me would just remain as a part of the cloud that is hovering over the body of Christ.
Comment: Would we still have intelligence after we die?
Pastor Vitale: When you say intelligence you are talking about the personality. The personality is a manifestation of the soul and that is going to die.
Comment: But there is also a spirit personality.
Pastor Vitale: It is Christ, and Christ is not divided. It is the same one in all of us. This is very hard. It took me a year to get it.
Comment: Is there a part of us that is spirit separate from the body of Christ’s Spirit?
Pastor Vitale: No, it is Christ like a cloud sitting on the whole body of Christ.
Comment: So the real you is Christ and it will not cease to exist. It will continue on until the whole thing is the body of Christ.
Pastor Vitale: Right. He is in the body of Christ.
Comment: So you will go on through the body of Christ. That is what you are saying. From the message, Thy Neighbor’s Landmark, about multiple incarnations, I had the understanding that the only way I can continue on is if I go on through my natural children.
Pastor Vitale: Yes, your natural children. At the time that we preached that message, I was asked what if you do not have any children? Since I preached that message, this is what the Lord has told me. If you have children, your life substance continues into your children, but if you do not have children, you are just a part of that eternal Spirit that is resting upon the body of Christ. I am sorry I do not have any more answers for you.
Comment: So your personality does not continue on through your children because it dies.
Pastor Vitale: It continues on through your children. All of us here, that have children, know that our children definitely have pieces of our personality. They look like us. They look like one if not both of their parents. They certainly take their appearance from their parents, and they take their personality from their parents. If not from their parents, from their grandparents. The soul is definitely passed along the family line as well as the body. If I were to be hit by a car, the soul and the body that is me, will cease to exist. The spirit that is me, is now, and will continue to be, a part of Christ, only it will no longer be dwelling in this vessel.
It is very hard. I will answer your questions to the best of my ability, but that is all that I have for you right now. Sometimes, I struggle with it, but do not worry about it. Just pray that if it be the will of the Lord, and if the word be true, that he give the understanding to everybody. Do not worry about it. It is very difficult. I almost tried to shut Rita up, and figured I had better not do it, because maybe the Lord is bringing it forth here. I always shy away from these things, and I guess that is a defect in me. Well, she brought it forth, and I have to believe the Lord had her bring it forth. I am answering your questions to the best of my ability.
Comment: What is this all about, if we are not going to exist?
Pastor Vitale: Oh, but we are going to exist, but no, not as a single entity. We are Christ.
Comment: So my battles are not mine. They are Christ’s. But I am feeling the pain and I am living the life. If I were to die tomorrow, I would just free myself.
Pastor Vitale: No, because you are Christ. You are made out of his life. He took a piece of his flesh and formed you.
Comment: So how would it hurt me if I just killed myself tomorrow? I would no longer exist, and feel the hurt and the pain. I mean it is kind of like an anti-climax. Why not be a worldly person and be happy and then die? I have this question because I am the only saved person in my family and extended friends. Their connotation is just live a good life and be happy, because when you die, that is it. Now from what I understood in my ignorance, I know that what you are saying is far deeper than my understanding. It is almost, like I said, an anti-climax, what they are saying to me, and what I am fighting.
Pastor Vitale: It is not really true, if you try and look at it this way. This whole living soul was made out of the substance of Christ. We are him in a female form. The reason he is separating himself into a female form and a male form is for the purpose of reproduction. It was his decision to bring forth many sons to glory. So he separated himself into a male and female element to bring forth this reproduction. We are him, and he is moving in you in his male strength, and his Father has commanded him to overcome. To overcome what? To overcome the carnal mind that is oppressing you, that is making you think thoughts of suicide, that is making you think what would it matter if I just ended it. If you were to do that, he would have failed in your vessel.
Comment: But what would it matter to the vessel? It would not mean anything to the vessel. I have one particular girlfriend who said to me that when she lives a good life, she believes in Jesus Christ, that is it. When she dies, that is the end of her life.
Pastor Vitale: Well, that is not really true, because your children are you, and if you do this, there are judgments associated with it. This kind of thinking is your carnal mind, and it is wrong. I do not want to insult you. I do not really know you that well. This is an ungodly thought. I am not criticizing you personally. This is a very ungodly thought. I am suggesting to you that this is sin in your mind that is manifesting right now. If you were to do this, there are judgments for sin. Those judgments will go upon your family line, and the sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. This is very hard, but for all intents and purposes, you really are living in future generations, and everything that you do today will either curse or bless your offspring, which are you.
Comment: That just cleared the whole thing. I am glad I pursued it because that would have bothered me.
Pastor Vitale: Thank you Jesus. Glory to God.
How we live our lives is important. I have had a lot of people say to me, why should I bother for? Do it for your children, your grandchildren, and your great grandchildren, and for your entire line. Although the Scripture says the sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the children unto the third and fourth generation, when a curse like that comes down, as I mentioned earlier, it affects the way you think. So you can believe, that if not sooner, by the fourth generation, for sure, that same old thinking is in your great grandchild’s mind, and he will commit the same sin, which will perpetuate it for another four generations. The reality of it is that when a curse of God comes down upon a family line, it continues until either the family line is wiped out off the face of the earth, or Jesus Christ appears to save their souls. So you are talking about generations of what is really your extension in the earth.
Comment: I want to ask this question. If you do not want to answer, it is alright.
Pastor Vitale: No, it is alright. It is just that sometimes the coward in me rises up. (Laughter)
Comment: This is about if God has called you to be a eunuch and you do not have children. If He called me to be a eunuch, and I was not going to get married and have children, I cannot think along these lines of why I live. I cannot live through my children. I cannot live through my grandchildren. I cannot think along those lines because I do not have that. I thought what is there after death if I do not go there to be with Jesus in heaven? What happens when I die? I thought it must be the fear of nonexistence. The fear of my body dissolving into dust, my soul, my personality, my thoughts dissolving, it is terrifying to think about. It is the fear of nonexistence. These thoughts, and everything else, if they are not Christ, they are going to dissolve anyway, I guess.
Pastor Vitale: I want to repeat the question back to you to make sure I know what you are asking me. Are you saying to me that if you never get married what will happen? Right now, just for the people that do not understand this, you are considering the possibility that the Lord has called you to be a eunuch for Christ, and that if you never marry, you will not produce children, and if this is not true that you are being called to be a eunuch for Christ, would that not be a terrible loss? Is that what you are saying?
Comment: No, I am saying, if I was called to be a eunuch, what am I to think about living on forever. I cannot live through my children because I do not have any.
Pastor Vitale: Oh, I see what you are saying. I believe this is the answer the Lord has given me for you. If you are called to be a eunuch for Christ, your offspring shall be spiritual offspring. Jesus was a eunuch for Christ, and he had many, many, children, the entire body of Christ. There is a scripture in Isaiah that says, oh ye barren, ye who have no children, ye shall bear more children than the married wife. Can you hear that? So if you are living your entire life for Christ, I will show you how it will manifest. The Scripture says the married woman is concerned with making her husband happy. If you are a eunuch for Christ, and you are married to Jesus, and your whole life is being a missionary, of holding meetings, of blessing the body of Christ, whether you are a musician, a psalmist, or ministering like you do, if you are speaking the word of life that is bringing many, and it will never be just one person, if you have a ministry that is speaking the word of life that is raising people up from their carnal minds into the life of Christ, you have borne a child. Every time Jesus ministers through you, the word of life that will quicken an adamic soul to produce the life of Christ, to have the life of Christ formed in them, you have reproduced yourself. You have reproduced the Christ in you.
Comment: Can I say something? The Lord says he who seeks to save his life in this world shall lose it. He who loses his life in this world shall save it. Whatever that means, God knows it is just His word, and we just have to believe that He says if we lose it, we are going to save it in actuality. I am saying that scripture just came in my heart. Whatever it is that is your life in this world, whatever is your attachment, it could be getting married and having children, or it could be something else. It does not have to be that, whatever is your life, meaning the thing that is so important to you, or the hardest thing to yield up to the Lord, whatever it is, if we lose it, in actuality we are going to be saving our life. If we try to keep it, and hold on to it, we lose it. The Lord just put that in my heart. Whatever it means, I do not know, but it just meant something to me.
Pastor Vitale: I think it is true that if the Lord has called you to be a eunuch for Christ, you will have spiritual children as Jesus did. Does anyone not follow me with that, that Jesus had spiritual children, that the second generation of his life is coming forth right now? If you give that up because you have idolatry, or a drive for a husband and children, that is not coming forth from Christ, in you, you may still never marry and never have any children, and then you will lose everything. I think that is pretty much what that scripture is saying. Seek ye first the kingdom of God. To answer your question, I believe that the answer is that if you are a eunuch for Christ, your children are spiritual children, and that you will be a partaker of the work of the Lord in the vineyard, in bringing forth the image of Christ in the children of the kingdom. Your inheritance will be with Jesus and that your offspring will be the body of Christ.
Comment: We dwell in these thoughts by thinking about them. I have had those thoughts of suicidal and death wish too. If I am not going to have an existence, then what is the use of trying now? I would rather end it or something like that? That is like suicidal thoughts, and it gets worse, because of the fear of nonexistence. It is like a pit. It will put me in a pit of thinking that I do not want to live anymore. Well then, it goes further and further into suicidal thoughts. When you get that fear of nonexistence, or that you are not going to make it, that you are not going to become a manifested son, and you are going to die, how can we think healthy thoughts? If I do die, there is hope that I will go on to live through my spiritual children or my natural children. Is that what I am supposed to think?
Pastor Vitale: No, that is not what you are supposed to think.
When you have suicidal thoughts, it means the adamic or carnal mind is ruling. There is more than one name for things. If I am confusing you by changing the name, it is just like you would call yourself by your real name or a nickname. The adamic mind or the carnal mind is the same thing. When you have these wicked thoughts, that is the carnal mind ruling in your life, and you are to wage war against him, and defeat him, because you are involved in the battle of armageddon. That battle is between Christ and Adam. It really does not matter whether you are thinking suicidal thoughts or your mind is occupied with decorating your house. If Adam is ruling in your mind, Christ is tread underfoot. The battle is for who is going to rule in your mind. Of course, suicidal thoughts are very serious, because if you yield to them, they can cause you to destroy your body. If you destroy your body, you destroy your soul, and the manifestation of Christ that is being formed, in you, will die. It is serious, and it has to be countered with the thoughts of Christ. You have to say, I recognize you, and you are an adamic thought. I curse you, and I command you to go down under the feet of Christ. You know what the right thought is, that you should live for Christ. You can call upon the Lord to help you. I frequently pray, Lord, manifest your soul. These thoughts are killing me. Bring forth your life in my mind. Put these thoughts underfoot.
Comment: When will it be that we will come out of this, this bondage of fear of death? When we receive the spirit of adoption, we come out of that? All of their lifetime they were in bondage to fear of death. There is a scripture that says that.
Pastor Vitale: It says that we come out of it when we die, if we are thinking of the same scripture. Those who, all their life were in bondage through fear of death, shall be free through death. What does that mean? It means through the death of your carnal mind. He must die.
Comment: We will not be thinking we are going to die anymore. In order for me to not to think about the fact that I might die, I have to start resisting the thought that I might die? Is that what I do?
Pastor Vitale: You have to resist it. Say to it, you are an ungodly thought, and you are coming out of the carnal mind. Jesus has promised me life. Just call on the Lord for what scriptures you would use to oppose that. You have got to take authority over your mind, you see.
Comment: I just wanted to comment that we do not have to fear the death of this physical body. By living out of our carnal mind, the separation from the Spirit of God is taking place while we are walking around in these physical bodies. We are worried about what is going to happen when this body is dead, but as long as we are living out of our carnal mind, we are at that place already. There is only the life of Christ, when we are living out of the Spirit of God, and we are joined to Him.
Pastor: Amen. That is exactly how God looks at it. It does not matter that you have a body. If you are not living out of Christ, you are dead.
Comment: If we have Christ conceived in us, is it possible for us to come out of death while still in the body? Is this what is going to happen, that we shall not all die, and that we can come out of death while we are still in this body. I could come out of death, and live the resurrected life forever?
Pastor Vitale: Yes, that is the promise of the Scripture.
You have to be in the proper season. There was a time when it was not yet the season for the Holy Spirit to be poured out. The Holy Spirit was poured out after the ascension of Jesus Christ. The apostles or the disciples before Jesus’ crucifixion were not baptized with the Holy Spirit. The Scripture says Jesus gave them power over all manner of disease and all devils. He gave them the imputed anointing. They did not have the baptism with the Holy Spirit, neither could they have it, because it was not yet the season for it. I declare to you that a young woman of nine years old is most likely not in the season through which she could bear a child. Some nine year olds can, but it is very rare. She is not in her season yet. Well, it is not yet the season for the birth. We have just begun to enter into the season, but to the best of my knowledge it has not happened yet. There is a baby that is going to be born, and it is going to be born any moment, and it is the baby in you, and in me, that is going to be fully born and stand up in full stature. We are in the season, and everybody is waiting for the birth, but to the best of my knowledge it has not happened yet. Once it starts happening, once the firstfruits of the firstfruits, produce Christ in full stature, there are going to be human vessels all over the world. We are just going to be standing up, just like the baptism with the Holy Spirit; one over there, one over there, boom, boom, boom.
Comment: My previous question was what is the difference if I just kill myself or I live to age 95 and die a natural death? There is no difference spiritually, right?
Pastor Vitale: Well, the curses go on your family line for taking your life.
Comment: Ultimately, my spiritual walk on this earth, for me, will remain the same. I am dead at 95 or I am dead because I committed suicide, and then my family will carry the curse. Do you understand what I am saying? She is saying, for her, if she does not have natural offspring, her spiritual walk is ended. Now you had said we would be vessels on this earth if we are present at the time of Christ’s manifestation. Now those are two entirely different thoughts. My hope is to be alive when Christ appears. I also had the thought that it did not matter if I was here when he appeared, because I would also become a manifestation of him.
Pastor Vitale: That is true. Your spirit is Christ. You are Christ. You see, the problem is that the carnal mind tells us that we are this personality. You are Christ. You are Christ.
Comment: My personality and my carnal mind will die sooner than later. But hopefully, like I said, I will last until Christ manifests.
Pastor Vitale: But you see, you are not your personality. You are Christ. When Christ manifests himself, if you are still alive when he manifested himself, you would cease to be. This personality is going to cease to be. You are Christ. When he manifests himself, he is going to rise up, in you, in great power, and slay your carnal mind, and it is going to be him living through you. It is not going to be you anymore.
Comment: What about the Christians that have gone on? Will they still have a spirit? Where is their spirit?
Pastor Vitale: It is in Christ.
Comment: Do they have a separate entity as a spirit?
Pastor Vitale: There is no separation in Christ.
This is a very confusing issue. We think that we are this personality, but we are not. Paul said, I live, yet not I, but Christ in me. Paul had the same body, the same name, the same natural lineage, but Paul, who was a Christian murderer, the one that arrested the Christians and tortured them, that man ceased to be. It was Christ living through him. Whether you commit suicide now, or whether you live to 95, or whether Christ appears in you, you are going to die. Right now, Christ is a little seed inside of you, but when he grows up to be this great mustard tree, he is going to overshadow your carnal personality, which we know by your given name, and you will have the same body, and the same name, but your spiritual life will no longer be what you are now. You will be in the fullness of Christ. The reason this confusion comes upon us is that right now we are in the fullness of Adam, and Jesus is that mustard seed. Our adamic personality will utterly cease to be in that day that Christ is fully born in us. Did I help you at all?
Comment: I was thinking about what she said about why would it matter if she were to die now or at age 95. The question that came to me was why cannot Christ grow in her now, and at age 95, Christ would have grown much more in her, and if her vessel dies, Christ is still going to go on. Will he still exist? If her vessel dies, and her personality dies, any of her personality that was apart from Christ was demonic thoughts anyway. So if that dies, then that is alright. But if any of her was in Christ, if she died now, or took her life now, at the place where she is, where Christ is a seed, but she waited, and by the time she is 95, would Christ have grown in her more?
Pastor Vitale: Well it is a possibility, but the seed of Christ is not growing according to our carnal mind. Everything is in a time and a season. I personally believe he is going to stand up in full stature really soon, but we do not know. We are not living in the season where the whole living soul is going to be absorbed.
Comment: But it is a curse if she kills herself now. Why is it a curse? Is it because Christ wants to come forth in her? Is that why it would be the curse?
Comment: At the same time, at age 95, he will cease to exist in this person also. Christ will cease to exist or Sheila will cease to exist?
Pastor Vitale: This is getting out of hand. Let us just cool it, okay? I think that what she is saying is that if her body dies, he will not be appearing in a vessel, because there will not be a vessel. Father, please anoint me to answer these women’s questions. All that I could say to you is that the only true life is Christ. Our souls and our bodies are just a shadow, and they are just for a season, whether we kill ourselves, whether we enjoy this life, or whether the Lord appears in full stature. These bodies and souls are just shadows. The only thing that counts is Christ. This is the only thing I have to say to you, and this is the gospel of the kingdom that the Lord is bringing forth now. I do not have all the answers. The only thing I have to say to you today, is that if somebody should commit suicide, that person is Christ, and Christ has failed to come forth in that vessel. He will have to answer to his Father, that he failed to come forth in that vessel, and that, that vessel succeeded in becoming the victim of the satanic mind. We are not our personality. We are Christ. We get into trouble with this doctrine when we fail to realize that we are Christ, and we think that we are the adamic personality. That is where we get into trouble. Did I answer your question? Did I help you at all?
Comment: It is coming slowly. I have to pray on it.
Pastor Vitale: This is very hard. I would like to pray for you, for the problems you mentioned earlier. If you would like me to, I would pray that if this be a true word, that the Lord will help you to receive it. I think it is time to pray. Does anybody have a question before we start praying? You have been very quiet, and just listening to everything.
Comment: I know there are a lot of things that we are discussing that are very deep, but I try not to understand it all because it is like I do not understand certain things that I just started to learn two weeks ago, before I can begin to understand the rest. It is like before I go on to the things of college, I have to complete my senior year first.
Pastor Vitale: That was definitely Christ speaking through you because this is a very important point. There are teaching messages that the Lord has brought forth through this ministry, that when you listen to them, they are doing two things. They are not only teaching you, but the Lord has placed an anointing on these messages, that is destroying your adamic soul, and building up Christ in you.
I highly recommend, if you are willing to do it, that you start reading the transcripts, because these things can only be understood in Christ. Adam cannot understand these things, so if the Lord has drawn you to this meeting today, I would feel safe to say that He is calling you unto perfection, and there is a spiritual work that needs to be done in you. The mechanism that is going to understand all this has to be formed in you. It is just like you said, you cannot go to college without learning how to read and write. If you would like to start reading the transcripts, I really recommend it, but I will pray for you now. Anything else before we go off? Okay.
10/10/14 Transcribed by MJS
10/11/14 1stEdit MJS