396 - 1 Part
JESUS AND JOHN, ELIJAH AND ELISHA?

The Following Message Has Been Transcribed And Edited For Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.

 

You can see it was spiritualized. A gathering among personal people I've always enjoyed in the past, I was just bored and nothing seemed to have changed. They are very nice people, very personable people, but my preference would have been to be talking about the things of God. At the end of it, in the past when I would go to a gathering like that I would enjoy myself and I would come down into my flesh in a measure because I would be enjoying myself. They are very pleasant people. The conversation is interesting on a human level, but then when I would go home I would find that my anointing was diminished because you can only be on one side at a time, and as your personality gravitates toward the carnal your anointing in Christ goes underneath. I am not saying you should not fellowship or socialize. I am saying that you should be aware of this, and I am aware of it to the point that I even had the computer opened Saturday morning before I left. I knew it was necessary to fill myself up with as much of the word as I could before I got there because if I'm doing carnal things the day before I get there and then I spend a whole day in this carnal stuff when I come back home Christ in me is just buried, and when Christ in you is buried you are very vulnerable to this world. We are living in a spiritual jungle. So I was all filled up Friday night and Saturday morning with this word, and I was meditating on the word all the way up, got revelation all the way up, but I was sitting there Saturday night at the dinner table, everybody was eating and chatting away and I was saying, Lord I had really rather be in the word, and then on the way home I realized that I had not gone down. Now this is just really exciting. I slept over, and I was with my niece this morning and she was really talking in a vein that I would not have had this conversation with anybody. I feel that the Lord has told me that we all are the priest of our family, and that we have to have relationships with everybody, we are the priests for everybody and we are to have a relationship where the Lord directs us, but the conversation wasn't in the best spirit and I know if she wasn't my relative I would have said I don't want to get involved in this because I am into this whole thing of guarding myself. You listen to too many people's problems and it just strips you of all your energy, there is nothing left, but she was my niece, the Lord had me there, and I listened to her. My whole point is I was engaged in a very carnal conversation that was talking about her problems for a couple of hours this morning, but I got in the car and I wasn't down. Christ was still up in me. Now for me, that is a miracle, an absolute miracle that this kind of conversation didn't pull me down. So, I see spiritual growth in myself. that's very exciting. I've just been galloping ahead since I got back from Florida and again I tell you it seems to be directly related to the time that I am putting in. I don't know what you are supposed to do, you people with families. I am just telling you the truth in my case. He can do anything He wants with you. In my case, it seems that all these hours with Him is bearing the most incredible fruit. Now He could do it a different way with you. I can't tell you otherwise. Just giving you my testimony.

This is where I am coming from. I've done some scans in the Interlinear and when I say scan. . . .see when I first started doing this kind of research I would go into each word and three verses would take a whole message. I'd have to look at all my different reference books and my dictionaries and my encyclopedia until I got the revelation of what God was saying to me, but on the basis of this revelation, where we are now, revelationally, and with the knowledge of all the symbols that we have, I've been doing something that I could never do before, and I call it scanning the Interlinear. That means I go into my Interlinear text on the computer and I go very fast, just click click, click click. I look at the Greek. I can't do this with the Hebrew. I have to tell you this. With the Hebrew, especially like in Daniel, very deep, but even the Hebrew I am doing it 500% faster than I have ever done it and I believe getting the understanding. The Greek to me is like, after you work in the Hebrew the Greek is like pabulum. I don't mean to put anybody down, it is just the truth for me. So I scan the Interlinear and it is just click click on the Greek word, click click on the Strong's and I see the potential definitions, and a lot of the Greek words I'm recognizing, a lot of the symbolism I know, and I was telling June just before you came in that I went through the account, and I haven't made any records of this stuff. Believe me, not all of it is on that tape. I am just going like a machine. So I went through the whole account of the temptation again, and I saw that this whole revelation that I have, we worked weeks on that translation from Matthew on the temptation. As I just scanned the Interlinear text it was obvious to me that, that was what it was saying. Now at the time that we did the translation I had to work hours and hours and hours to dig out what was really being said, and even then I didn't have the full revelation which I now have that Satan was saying to Jesus, Don't go on to glorification, stay in the flesh, because it is Satan's purpose to preserve the flesh world, and Satan was saying, Stay immortal, be immortal in the flesh and I will give you dominion over all the people of the earth and you will be able to rule them with mind control. The translation that we got was pretty accurate although I didn't understand it. So here I am zipping through. This was on Friday and I am convinced at this point that when Jesus said, If you can receive it that is the spirit of Elijah, He was not talking about John. He was talking about Himself in the same way that He said to the Pharisees, The Kingdom of God is in the midst of you, and they didn't know what He was talking about, but He was talking about Himself. So I believe that the spirit of Elijah was in Jesus, not in John, but I also believe that it was the spirit of Elisha that was in John, and I will tell you why. This is what I was meditating on as I was driving upstate. I am basing my belief on one statement that Jesus made which was just completely mistranslated in the King James. In the King James, it says that John was the greatest prophet born of a woman but the least in the Kingdom of God is greater than he. I may have mentioned this to you before. When I looked at it in the Greek, what it is really saying is that John is the greatest of those born of a woman. Now the word greatest, it can mean the oldest, it can mean the most mature, it can mean the best. I believe it means the most mature. I believe Jesus was talking about spiritual maturity, and He was saying, John is the most spiritually mature man born of a woman, but yet the least, the youngest in the Kingdom of God is greater than he, and Jesus was saying, I wasn't born of a woman. It wasn't the man Jesus talking. It was the spirit in Jesus. It was the same principle of Jesus saying to the Pharisees, Before Abraham was I Am. It was the One that was in Jesus talking and He was saying, The one in John is the most spiritually mature man born of a woman. Now up until that point who was the most spiritually mature man born of a woman? Elisha. Elisha went on to glorification, and then Jesus said, But yet the least in the Kingdom of God is more mature than He. I didn't make any record of this. There may be even little details that I'm leaving out, but I am pretty sure He said the least in the Kingdom of God, so He was contrasting the one who was born of a woman to the one in the Kingdom of God. I have been asking the Lord for years, What is the significance of Jesus not having a human father, of not having a human male seed, and at one point I was starting to think that maybe there is no significance. It is just that the scripture says He had to be born of a virgin. No, there is a significance. Jesus was born of a woman but He was not begotten of a human man. He was begotten by the spirit of God. He was begotten in a way similar, similar but not the same, as the man in the second stage of the fall. The men that were Noah's contemporaries, they were in the second stage of the fall. We are in the third stage of the fall. We reproduced by two particle beings, one male and one female interacting and producing a third, but in the second stage of the fall, the men were giants, their wives were within them and they reproduced by cell division. So, Jesus somehow, I don't understand it completely, He was conceived in the same way that Shem, Ham, and Japheth were conceived, but He was born of a woman. Shem, Ham, and Japheth were not born of a woman. They were produced by cell division. They were conceived by cell division, and they were born by cell division. Jesus seems to have been a combination of being conceived in the same way those born of cell division were conceived, but yet He was born of a woman, and the significance of His not having been fathered by a human male seed is that He was on His way back up to the second stage of the fall. Do you hear what I am saying? I will say it again. The significance of Jesus not being conceived by a human male seed is that He was the first one, the first man born of a woman who was designated to experience return to the condition or a similar condition that the men were in before this third stage of the fall. It is not exactly the same, but He is going back up, He is going back up. It is one step higher, it is a higher spiritual place to be to be fathered by the spirit of God. Brethren, this is the lowest place we could be, to be fathered by a physical male and a physical female through sexual intercourse, to be born in the totally dependent condition of a human infant and to be subject to human parents with a fallen mind until you are old enough to go out on your own and even then if you want to serve God to be subject to all the family line witchcraft that we have talked about so much. For a spiritual person this is the ultimate humiliation, but you really have to have spiritual ears to hear this. So Jesus was the one designated to be the first man born of a woman to start stepping back up, and the first stage of that step back up was that He wasn't begotten by a human male, that He was begotten by the spirit of God. Can you hear that? I don't have the whole story. There is something missing here. I just don't know what it is yet. I believe at the moment what I am telling you is true, but I don't have the whole picture. There is more information that has to come.

This is how I started this investigation, and I said, Well, it really sounds like John the Baptist was Elisha and Jesus was Elijah, and now I am thinking, Well, apparently glorified men. . . .I will be using a lot of wrong words here because I don't have my . . . .If you question anything ask me because it is just gushing out of me. Apparently, what it looks like now is that glorified men can incarnate, they can incarnate, and I suspect that the immortals of this world are doing that but that it is illegal but they are doing it. I don't believe that every human being that is born is the result of some immortal deciding to come into this world, but I think that some people who are born are the result of some immortal coming into this world. Some people, and it is illegal so that there is a truth to reincarnation, and that there may very well be ascended masters who are doing this, but it is all spiritual criminality. So, Elijah and Elisha as far as I know now are the first two men from this fallen world who returned above the firmament. I am calling them glorified men, and the two of them incarnated within a couple of months of one another with the specific mission of saving the whole world, and Jesus was to the Savior of the world. I am pursuing this now, I am investigating this. I am saying, Well Lord, I think what Jesus said about John being the most mature one, to me that is a very strong witness that this was Elijah so I want to pursue this further, and I went in and looked in the Greek Interlinear about the description of John the Baptist. Well, let me tell you what I think before I tell you that. Now after this whole investigation which was anything but thorough, it looks like, I don't understand it completely, but it looks like John the Baptist really didn't. . . .I don't know to what degree that he knew who he was when he was in the flesh, and I've heard from occult sources that once you do incarnate you forget. You forget, if you are a spiritual person God has chosen to incarnate, in the flesh you forget. I don't know how true this is, I am just telling you what I heard and I'm trying to find out from God what is true here, that once you are born as a baby and you spend all these years growing up in this infantile mind under the influence of people with unenlightened minds that you really don't know who you are or that you don't remember that you chose to incarnate, and I think that John didn't know because I went into the scriptures where John sent his disciples saying to Jesus, Are you the one who was to come or should we look for another? I really went in looking to see it saying something else, but it didn't. That's what it said. I couldn't find any shadow of turning in it in the Greek. That's what it said which once again gives me peace that my accusers say that I change everything, but there was nothing to change, that is what it said, and I came to the conclusion that he wasn't sure that Jesus was the one, and the second thing that bothered me was if this really was Elijah who overcame and ascended above the firmament, my carnal mind expected him to be raised from the dead after Herod had his head cut off. My carnal mind expected him to be raised from the dead. I could not find any indication whatsoever that Elisha was raised from the dead, but this is the course that I was pursuing, and I said, Lord what was he here for, I'm going to go on the hypothesis that this is true, that Jesus was an incarnation of Elijah and that John was an incarnation of Elisha. We know why Jesus was here, obviously He is the Savior of mankind. Well why was Elisha incarnated? Why did he incarnate? If he died he wasn't raised from the dead, and I said, Lord I don't mean any disrespect for John but compared to the glorious ministry that Elisha had in II Kings 2 where he had those wonderful experiences where he overcame, he was raised from the dead, he ascended above the firmament. That's marvelous, it's glorious, and you compare that to the ministry that he had as John the Baptist, and I am not putting down the ministry of John the Baptist but when I compare the two ministries, to me Elisha was going backwards. Can you hear what I am saying? There is no comparison to be saying, Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand and dunking people under the water, compared to the glorious supernatural experiences that Elisha had with Elijah. Are you following me? I said, Lord it is just I feel that what Jesus said about John being the eldest to me that is a very powerful witness but something was wrong. I said, Lord I am missing something, there are some things that I don't understand, and this is the way I pray and I recommend you follow me as I follow Christ. I am not panicking, I just said, Lord this thing isn't jelling so it has got to mean I am missing some information and I am believing you to give me the truth and deliver me from deception and this is where I went. I did a scan on the Greek of the description of John, and there was a spiritual message behind the carnal message in his description. He came wearing the camel's hair and my memory may not be completely accurate here. Hair, we know, means spirit and I believe that when I followed the root of the word camel all the way back, now my memory is failing me so this could be wrong, but I think this is it. When I followed it back to the root of the word it means from above. His spirit was from above, and then it said he wore a leather girdle and girdle is a Greek word for a purse much like the young people wear today. They wear these purses wrapped around them. It is on like a belt and then the purse is hanging there. The way it came up in the Greek, it really looked like this spirit that he had. . . .whenever it says from above it means from above the firmament. It is speaking about the firmament. That this spirit he had that was from above the firmament it was inside this leather girdle, and the word leather is simply talking about an animal skin. So his spirit that was from above was inside an animal skin. It was inside the carnal mind, but the really important revelation was the phrase that said, he ate locust and wild honey. Locust. . . .now I had heard Charlie preach from the pulpit, I don't know who he was reading, but Charlie said it wasn't the insect locust. There was a flower called locust as well. I couldn't find any proof of that in my search. Now it may be that he found that in books that I don't have access to, but what I did find in my search was a comment by Strong's Brown Driver Briggs that said, eating locust fried or broiled are a delicacy in the middle east and that it is acceptable, it is not against the dietary laws for Jews to eat them. And I didn't see anything about it being a flower, so I took it from there and I studied the word locust, and what I found was that a locust, the dictionary says that the name locust comes from the fact that the locust itself lights on top of the flower and the root of the word locust means on top of, and the locust land on top of the flowers. That is what the dictionary says, and I know that the flower is the symbol for the Holy Spirit. I have talked about that here a lot so I said, Well locust is something that is higher than the Holy Spirit, and what's higher than the Holy Spirit? What's higher than the Holy Spirit? Who is higher than the Holy Spirit? The mind of Christ is higher than the Holy Spirit. We are talking about the imputed verses the imparted anointing. The imputed anointing is the Holy Spirit, and the imparted anointing is the mind of Christ growing in you. So it says he ate locust and wild honey, and I know that honey is talking about the wisdom of God, and in our study of Elisha we heard about the double portion of honey which is Michael and Adam together, and then we found out about the honeycomb which is the casing for the honey which is the personality, but this wasn't a double portion of honey. It was wild honey so I looked up the word wild, and the only word in the dictionary that could work with it positively was fierce. John's spirit was from above, and he ate, and the word eat refers to eating the word of God, it's your revelation, it's your relationship, it is the one you are joined to. That's what the word eat means. And he ate the fierce honey from above the firmament. He ate the fierce wisdom, he was joined with the fierce wisdom from above the firmament. And who is the wisdom above the firmament? Who is above the firmament? Michael. Michael is the one who is above the firmament and Adam is the one who is beneath the firmament, and I know that I have been saying Elohim for a long time. I just didn't have the specific name. I have been preaching that for a long time. Now it looks like Michael, the last Adam, is the image on top of the firmament, and He is the spirit of judgment and Adam, the living soul, the first Adam, went before the fall was beneath the firmament in the Garden of Eden, but Michael is the warrior. He is the fierce warrior, he is the one that defeated the Prince of Persia so that Daniel could get this message. Michael is the warrior. In Revelation 12 Michael is the warrior, and He is also the wisdom of God and the double portion of wisdom is Michael the last Adam. If you don't believe it is Michael, it is the last Adam, the double portion of honey, if you don't believe it is Michael, it is the wisdom above the firmament and the wisdom beneath. That's the double portion of honey. So, the one above is the last Adam. At this point I believe that it is Michael, but if you don't believe it is Michael, it is the last Adam, the wisdom that's above who is the fierce warrior. So this was the spiritual message that I got about John the Baptist. His spirit was from above, and he ate, he partook of, he was joined with, he was married to, he had a union with, a fulfilling union with the fierce wisdom from above, Michael. You don't have to agree with me. Do you know what I am talking about?

COMMENT: So then we can correctly drop Elohim?

PASTOR VITALE: I don't believe Elohim is wrong, we just now have a more accurate understanding of the form that Elohim is in for this function. Elohim is the one who is forming the creation for Jehovah, and He has put Himself in different forms. He is the sperm, he has become the seed, he has become the man, are you following me? So Elohim is not wrong but now that we understand more accurately we are going to try to walk in the revelation that we have now.

COMMENT: What about the alter now? How is that formed? Is Michael the altar?

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, I believe Michael is a part of the altar, that the altar is Jehovah. You may remember that we learned in Genesis 6 that Jehovah said it is a three part altar and I am half of the altar so the other 50% of the altar was in two parts and I told you that it was Abel and Cain because that was all I had at that time. I now believe that Cain is not a part of the altar. The altar is a holy altar so if Jehovah is half the other side and the other half was in two parts it really could not have been Cain. I just didn't know what else to make of it, but it is Michael and Adam, the first and the last Adam or half of the altar and Jehovah is the other half of the altar. You see, Elohim has made Himself now into the first and last Adam. Elohim is in the form of the first and the last Adam. O.K?

COMMENT: I remember the New Age book by Betty Eby, Embrace the Light, and she talks about beings up there who decide what family they are going to come down and incarnate.

PASTOR VITALE: I believe that may be true. If it is true this is happening in the lower heaven underneath the stagnant pool of this world, and it is Satan, it is the ones who are immortal in Satan. It just may be true. I would like to go on unless someone has a specific question on this issue.

So, I am pursuing this thought that John is Elisha. I hate to say reincarnated, but if it is the truth, it is the truth. We really shouldn't be afraid of the Word, but still something is bothering me that why would Elisha incarnate for such a ministry that was not insignificant but that was insignificant in comparison to his prior ministry, and as I am scanning through the Greek I understood the New Testament like I never understood it before. For example, John was baptizing and the Pharisees were standing at a distance watching and John yelled at them and said, You vipers, who warned you of the wrath to come? I don't know about you, but I never understood really what he was saying, and as I scanned the Greek I understood what he was saying. He said, You vipers, you offspring of the serpent, Jehovah didn't tell you to come and get baptized for the remission of sins. It's the serpent within you, your knowledge, your spiritual wisdom is of the serpent. What are you doing here? Jehovah didn't send you here? A desire to repent and have your sins remitted didn't come here, what are you doing here? The serpent sent you. He was exposing that their god was the serpent. Did you know that? I never had that....it was just like everything is coming alive, I was just sitting in front of the computer saying, This is too marvelous, this is too marvelous, and it ended up in that whole out pouring for the Jews. So I am trying to remember everything. I am starting to think I should set up a tape recorder when I do these studies to just catch my expressions because I am under an anointing, I don't even stop to write things down or pick up a tape recorder and say this, I am just going from word to word like I am caught up in something.

COMMENT: Just let the tape roll.

PASTOR VITALE: Well, I have this tape recorder that is voice activated so it will go on and off and I am going to try and do that the next time. That is the only thing that I am recalling right now. I was going through all these scriptures and I saw the baptism and I saw John saying to Jesus, No I shouldn't be baptizing you, you should be baptizing me. So here we see John the Baptist whose spirit is from above, he came down from above the firmament, who has a relationship with Michael, the fierce wisdom from above but whose spirit is wrapped in a carnal mind. Now we know that when your spirit is wrapped in a carnal mind, you may not even be understanding what your spirit is saying. When you spirit is wrapped in the carnal mind you are living largely out of your carnal mind so I am not really too sure about this and that is why I was surprised to see that John really didn't know who Jesus was, but somehow when Jesus approached him that day, I don't know what John thought but he knew, he felt that Jesus should be baptizing him so I remember Charlie preached once that he forgot everything, it wasn't irreverent and I am not putting him down at all. I heard Charlie preach once that he couldn't even hold on to the revelation when he was in the jail, he sent his disciples asking. . . .is it true he couldn't hold on to the revelation, but I don't know that, that is true, that he couldn't hold on to the revelation. He may not have known who Jesus was, he was under this heavy anointing calling people to repentance and it may have just been a word of knowledge that came down on him. He may have just seen the anointing on Him and said in his heart, I recognize that your anointing is greater than mind. It may not have gone any further than that except that he saw this great anointing on this man, but it wasn't until after Jesus started doing the miracles that John said, Are you the one? He didn't forget. I can relate to that. I can relate to seeing an anointing on somebody and recognizing it, and I see it on you here from time to time. This may come as a surprise to you, but I see it on you here from time to time, and you may not know it and you probably don't know it, but when I see it I humble myself before the anointing on you. Not before you, but before the anointing on you, and I am praying silently and you don't hear it, but you don't know a lot of what I do here. It seems to me that John perceived the anointing on the man, but it was nothing more than that at all.

COMMENT: I am just hearing the scripture, Know no man by the flesh.

PASTOR VITALE: Right. In my opinion, on a scale of 1 to 10, I am on a 5. I would not fight over this one. At this point, if anyone came to me and said,

SHEILA, I think you are completely wrong that John the Baptist was Elisha even based on the scripture that you gave me that he is the eldest born of a woman, I would say to the person, You are free to your opinion, but until God shows me otherwise I am absolutely convinced. On a scale of 1 to 10, I am a 10 believing that Elisha was incarnated in John the Baptist, but as far as John not really knowing who Jesus was, I am about, when I started talking about it I was a 5, but as I talk about it I am starting to be more convinced that, that was the case.

Now listen to what Jesus said to him. It really is not clear in the King James. Jesus said, No, it has to be this way so that all righteousness can be fulfilled. I don't know about you but I never knew what He was talking about. I was thinking, well He had to become the Savior of mankind. Do you know what He was saying then? If you just had ears to hear, you don't need any witness beyond this that Jesus was a mortal man at the time that He approached John, because what He said to him was, No, it has to be this way so righteousness can be filled up in me, so that I can be filled up with righteousness, so that righteousness can stand up in me. When He approached John He was just a mortal man. Now apparently, Jesus had a revelation of what was about to happen to Him. I believe that He knew the whole story, and that at the time we stand we will know exactly what to expect. Aside from the fact that I am very excited about truth, I just love the truth, it is very exciting to see where my studies are taking me because the more we understand about Jesus' experience the more we are prepared for our experience. So I got a definite witness in my heart that what I was doing. . . .Lord, I was saying, Why aren't I studying Daniel? This was Friday. I am going to be coming back here Sunday, I have a meeting, we are in the middle of Daniel 11, What am I doing here in the New Testament, but it was so strong on me that I just went for it, and I said, Well, I guess I'll preach on the dream, but I guess He had other ideas because it is just pouring out of me. To me, looking at it in the Greek with the revelation that I have now it is just as clear as day that Jesus was as human as we are, and that He had an instruction from the Lord that it was necessary to be baptized by John the Baptist in order for Him to ascend into immortality. Whether or not He knew more than that I don't know. He may have just been instructed that, that was necessary, and then maybe He got the rest of his revelation after He stood up, I don't know. I am trying very hard to not draw conclusions, I am trying very, very hard because it is only my carnal mind that is drawing conclusions. Just looking at the fact that was what Jesus said to him, It is necessary for you to baptize me so that I could be filled up with righteousness.

COMMENT: I always thought when Jesus was baptized that he was probably saying that His body was going to be used to defeat the power of Satan before I even realized that Satan could possibly. . . .I really had no concept of that, and you used to talk about the Old Testament, how much you thrived on it, that the New Testament was a piece of cake to you, and I used to think there is so much in there, so much I don't understand, and I never verbalized a prayer like that, but I am delighted about the New Testament. . . .

PASTOR VITALE: If you understand the Old Testament, you have to understand the New Testament. Understanding the New Testament will not give you understanding of the Old Testament, so we are going the way of the Jews, that's what we are doing.

COMMENT: Isn't the New Testament really. . . .duplicates a lot of the things of the Old Testament, but it actually, for lack of a better word, plays it out, in other words manifests it?

PASTOR VITALE: Well, I don't know that it fulfills it, it explains certain areas but it doesn't explain the whole Old Testament. The New Testament is basically an account of Jesus' experience and instruction as to the fact that we are supposed to be following, but there is much more in the Old Testament than in the New Testament, and the Old Testament is much more difficult even in the book of Revelation. The Hebrew is just more difficult than the Greek, and the symbolism is much deeper in the Old Testament for me. In my opinion, that's a truth, but I don't want to get off on that right now.

I am glad you said that because one of the words describing Jesus' coming for His baptism means in the Greek that it was time for His public appearance. That's what the Greek word means. As I pursued this still just going through all these scriptures I came to the scripture. . . .we already did this of Jesus in the Jordan, but the dove coming down and Jesus coming up out of the water, and I got the revelation that when He came up out of the water He didn't just come up out of the Jordan. When He came up, He came up above Satan's water. He ascended above Satan's water. He ascended above death when He came out, but looking at this scripture which says that the Holy Spirit came down upon Him like unto a dove, and I said, Lord I just don't get this, well what is this Holy Spirit like a dove. I said when I get home after this trip, I couldn't even remember what I taught on it, I have to go into my notes and see what I found with all my study, it just doesn't set right with me. Now this is what I got on the way upstate. If you can't receive it don't worry about it. Just pray about it. It just hit me when I was driving the car. That the Holy Spirit came down upon Jesus as a dove. First of all birds typify spirit, and a dove would be spirit in. . . well, I don't know if it is actually an animal or not, it is part of this world, that is what I am trying to say. The spirit in the form of something of this world is a mind, is it not? The spirit in this world is a mind. I said, Oh I bet you it means a mind, and it just hit me Brethren, it was John's mind, the fierce wisdom from above that was in contact with Michael, that mind of Christ, that locust that was higher than the flower, now remember if we are going to be legalistic we don't want to draw any conclusions at all. The only information that I found about what Jesus was born with is that He was born with the Holy Spirit. Now I know that He was born with a fertilized human spirit, it was coming on me but I don't have any proof of that, and it is looking like it may not have been completely accurate. He was born with the potential, not only with the potential it was prophesied He had to be Savior, but I could not comprehend how His human spirit could be fertilized so I told you He was born with it, o.k? But we found in our study of the Magi that when they approached him it was the Holy Spirit that was there, it was the frankincense I believe, the frankincense that smelled like flowers. It was the Holy Spirit that they humbled themselves before so Jesus just had the Holy Spirit, but John had the mind of Christ. Jesus only had the Holy Spirit, but John had the mind of Christ. Now, this is just going by the symbols I have seen, o.k? And the two had to come together and when John laid hands on Jesus the mind of Christ, the Holy Spirit that was appearing in John as the mind of the fierce honey from above was imparted to Jesus, and the scripture says, And the Holy Spirit descended in the form of a dove. It descended from John. Where did it descend from? I thought, Well it came out of the sky, it came out of the moon, you know. I never really thought about it, but I know myself that I preached that everything is within man, everything spiritual is inside of man, nothing is out there. Well, John laid hands on Him and John had the mind of Christ, and it was imparted to Jesus as a dove. I know this is radical. I'll tell you a funny story about radical. Aurelia called on Saturday and she said was listening to one tape where I said three or four times, I know this is radical, and when she went to sleep that night she had a dream, I forget what the dream was but it was something about radical and the interpretation of the dream was that the Lord was witnessing to her that these radical things are true so she called to ask what I thought of her dream, and I said that's what it sounds like. I can't remember what the words were in the dream. She said she thought it was her personal witness that these radical things are true.

COMMENT: Does radical mean completely reverse?

PASTOR VITALE: Radical doesn't mean reverse. It doesn't mean way off. It means far removed from what is accepted, but it doesn't mean that what is accepted is true. It means far removed from the norm, but the norm is not always right.

COMMENT: In other words, what's the true reality.

PASTOR VITALE: Right, and I keep hearing in my head. . . .we are sitting here with two people and you think that you know all this stuff and the whole church doesn't know it. Did you want to ask me something?

COMMENT: When you said about John laying hands on Jesus and imparting the spirit, would that be Elisha's spirit?

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, that is my next question. We are private investigators here. Why is the lesser laying hands on the greater? I don't know that Elisha is the lesser any more because once you are glorified, they are both glorified. Right? I don't know that Elisha is the lesser, I don't know how God sees it, I don't know Elisha is the lesser any more, but in any event what I did say to the Lord, Well, the one who is called to be the Savior of mankind He only has the Holy Spirit? And the one sent out to help Him, he has the mind of Christ? I said, Lord this doesn't set right with me, and this is what I believe that the Lord told me. That the experience that He was having that resulted in his glorification had to be an experience that we mortals could identify with, and we are not born with the mind of Christ. We have to get it from somebody, so for that reason Jesus had to get it from somebody. So, they were incarnated as a team. Elijah and Elisha were incarnated as a team, and Jesus was the one that was chosen to go on and John was there to impart the mind of Christ to Him, and when his job was done he was executed. He said, John said, I am the a voice crying in the wilderness, and this was something else I picked up as I scanned the Greek. That the wilderness, when that term is used, it is speaking about the spiritual part of this world down here in the sewer, the wilderness is the spiritual world in the sewer. There is a heaven above, and there is a heaven beneath so it's Satan's world, so John said I am a voice crying out in the wilderness. What does that mean? He was crying out, Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins. He was crying out with his mouth, but he was really crying out to who could ever hear him in the spirit because I hope we all know that being physically baptized cannot do anything for you except perhaps direct Jesus' attention to you because it is an act of faith. Nothing physical can do anything for you, and I remind you of the revelation that came down here about Jesus in the garden and Peter cutting that man's ear off, that the spiritual message behind that translation was that I Am had risen up in Jesus and said, I'm forming my Kingdom, and Malchus apparently, something in Malchus responded in the spirit, Peter saw it, and Peter thrust his mind into Malchus' mind, stung his carnal mind, paralyzed it, and inseminated Malchus, and what's incredible about that is that in no way that tremendous spiritual event interfered with the events of this world. Malchus was a part of the company who came to arrest Jesus, and he did his job. He with the rest of the company arrested Jesus and took Him in, and he probably didn't even know that his mind was fertilized with the Kingdom of God. So you see, those in the Kingdom of God knew what was happening to the people down here in this world, but even the people of this world, in this case Malchus, could not recognize the spiritual realm where these men were or what they were doing to Him.

COMMENT: I am thinking of John the Baptist. He said something to the effect that he came to prepare the way and Jesus, we know, is the way, but my mind goes back to when he said, I am not even worthy to loose his sandals and we have learned that the pudenda and the feet, sandal, what it means, like spiritual, bringing forth of the mind of Christ.

PASTOR VITALE: To loose the shoes?

COMMENT: I was thinking about appropriate, in other words to bring forth the mind of Christ, to produce the mind of Christ, spiritual reproduction.

PASTOR VITALE: That's interesting. I think I did look that up Mary, and I really cannot remember what that said, but I would like to check that out again as that is an interesting way to look at it. He also said, I can't loose the sandals from his feet so he could also have been saying I am not qualified to cleanse Him from sin.

COMMENT: Or better still, he wasn't the one it was prophesied to do this job that was given to Jesus. It was prophesied of Jesus that He was going to fulfill the plan of the Father.

PASTOR VITALE: Oh, I guess we are talking about two different things. I thought we were talking about John saying, I am not qualified to loose his sandals from his feet, well you know what that means. It's not so much to cleanse Him from sin, but the covering of the feet is the carnal mind. John said, I'm not qualified to give Him the Christ mind or deliver Him from the carnal mind. I'd really like to look at that in the Greek, but I think it must mean something like that. In any event. . . . well I don't know why John would say that if John laid hands on Him and He got the Christ mind. It is one of two things. When I look at it in the Greek it is going to become clearer or John didn't even know what was going to happen when he laid hands on Him. It is a real possibility it wasn't John that did it. It was Christ in John that just rose up and did it of his own free will. Now isn't that interesting. I told June before you came in that my niece had shared something with me last night, that there is a problem on her husband's side of the family and she apparently will never have any children. It looks like they have made that decision, but her husband has a brother who has two children that she would really like to enjoy, and her sister in law wants nothing to do with her. So when I went to bed that night I was praying about it. I wanted to be open, I didn't want to be defending my niece because she is my niece, but in all honesty I couldn't see anything about her that would be so offensive that her sister in law wouldn't want anything to do with her, but of course you never know, but I couldn't see it. So I went to sleep praying about it and I had a dream and in the dream there was a very evil looking woman and she was holding this child, in the natural it is not possible, she was holding like a six year old boy, five or six year old boy, and she was holding him by the arms, but all the way up off the ground and no one would have the strength to do that except maybe a body builder, and she was just holding him like that, and the kid had his feet stretched out and was kicking with his feet like you would punch with your hands, and I went over, I just had a thought. It was the feet, spiritual attack, the feet are the mind. And I rebuked the woman, she was a wicked woman in the dream. Who ever she was, she was a wicked woman, and I rebuked her and I said, You shouldn't be doing that, don't you know that you are using that child as a weapon and that he could really hurt somebody. So when I prayed about the dream this morning I felt, and I still do feel that Christ rose up in me and did something in the spirit on behalf of my niece which wouldn't surprise me at all if it brings reconciliation there, and I wondered why he didn't do it through my consciousness. He totally bypassed my consciousness in doing this through a dream, and I am wondering if He didn't do that as a witness to what we are talking about now. I am feeling it was a witness because I could have prayed in the room by myself. this is very unusual to execute a rebuke and bypass my consciousness. I can't remember the last time He did that. He usually does it through my mouth with my conscious understanding. It seems to me it is a witness right now that John may not, oh wouldn't that be interesting. If I go into the Greek and I look it up and it really does say that John said, I am not worthy to loose the Christ mind on Him or free Him from His carnal mind, that, that is what John's carnal mind was saying, but then Christ rose up in John and without his consciousness descended upon Jesus, the Holy Spirit descended as a dove upon Jesus, and it completely bypassed John's consciousness. It is a real possibility.

COMMENT: When you were speaking about your niece I got a mental image of Solomon when the two women came and each said the one living child belonged to them. I just saw a baby ripped in half, literally ripped apart. All I could think of was the body of Christ being torn apart.

PASTOR VITALE: I don't really know how that would relate to my niece, but driving home it did occur to me that the Lord might be moving on her. To be honest with you I had no idea how difficult her life was. I know what kind of problems are there, I know the curses on our family line, but I had no idea. . . .she told me she was emotionally abused, and I had no idea how severe it was. Apparently, it was very severe and anybody that is really hurt they are a prime candidate to come into the Kingdom. So me finding this out about her, and I saw some weaknesses in her that I had never seen, and that dream I was just wondering on the way home if the Lord wasn't going to reach out for her because this was really a reconciliation for us. Every since she saw that video of me preaching in Nigeria, she manifested severely when she saw that video, her eyes were bugging out of her head, and she has really never been the same to me, and about a year ago there was real trouble between us that didn't make any sense to me at all. We never spoke about it, but it was there in the spirit and the thing that set it off is that it made no sense at all, and I just wouldn't get caught in it and I prayed against it, and her inviting me to stay over was an offer at reconciliation and I think the reconciliation was brought to pass. She didn't even manifest that much when I talked about preaching, almost like she had made peace with herself.

COMMENT: I am inclined to think that ? has something to do with John the Baptist, we know he lost his head, put a new head on a body, a new mind, the preparation for the body.

PASTOR VITALE: I don't know. But in any event this is the answer that I have so far as to why Elisha incarnated into what my carnal mind saw as a really insignificant ministry. Don't misunderstand me, I am not putting down that ministry, I am saying in comparison to the glory that he had in II Kings 2 I couldn't understand it, and this is the answer that I got. That Jesus had to have an experience that we could relate to, He was not born with the mind of Christ, He was born with the Holy Spirit, and He had to get this mind of Christ from another man so that was Elisha's mission to be there at the right time to impart the mind of Christ to Him and that was the dove. The Holy Spirit came down as a dove, the Holy Spirit came down in the form of a mind upon Jesus and the Christ mind was imparted to Him.

COMMENT: I feel that Elisha was an a mortal person too so when he had the deal to bring the Holy Spirit to Jesus it was something in connection. . . .

PASTOR VITALE: You mean John?

COMMENT: The spirit of Elisha in John. . . .

PASTOR VITALE: That Elisha was a mortal man in II Kings?

COMMENT: That's the connection with Jesus being a mortal man also. That connection, if it was Elijah he was an immortal man right? . . . but being Elisha was mortal he had something in common with Jesus being mortal.

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, yes that's very good, that Elijah was an immortal, he had no natural father, and Jesus had no human father so that is another witness that it was Elijah in Jesus. Elisha had human parents and John had human parents so that is another witness.

COMMENT: I am having difficulty in my ear hearing the difference between Elijah and Elisha. I am confused on a couple of statements you made.

PASTOR VITALE: Where are you confused?

COMMENT: When you say Elijah I don't. . . .

PASTOR VITALE: But is there anything I could clear up for you now?

COMMENT: Elisha, you said Elisha was in John the Baptist and Elijah in Jesus?

PASTOR VITALE: Elijah in Jesus and Elisha in John the Baptist, and Elijah was not begotten by a human male, neither was Jesus begotten by a human male, but Elisha was begotten by human parents in II Kings and John was begotten. Although I have to check that out, everybody assumes that Zacharias was John's father. I don't know that it really says that, and I was just wondering if John was in a supernatural birth also. I will search and see if I can find any witness to that. I remember that Zacharias was on duty in the. . . .I have a strong feeling that when I study it I will find out that John the Baptist was an immaculate conception although I don't like to use that word, but that the seed did not come from Zacharias. Listen to what just came into my mind. The scripture says that Zacharias was doing his tour of duty as a Levi priest, and they would go for a couple of weeks at a time in the temple, and he wasn't with his wife. Now I remember Charlie teaching that we could figure out, we could have a general idea of when Jesus was born because we can figure out when Zacharias was in the temple and then Zacharias came back to Elizabeth and she conceived then and then Jesus was conceived, I think John was conceived six months after Jesus, but I never really quite understood why Zacharias' mouth was shut by the angel, and what's coming to me right now is that what Zacharias was protesting was that his wife conceived when he wasn't there. That's what is in my spirit. I will see if I can find a witness to it in the scripture. It never made any sense to me at all. Why was his mouth shut like that? What did he say that was so terrible? The angel came and said, and please tell me if you think this is wrong because I am not that big on the New Testament. The angel came to Zacharias and said, Your wife, Elizabeth, she is pregnant and Zacharias said, No, he didn't agree, and the angel smote him with dumbness. Well, why was he so upset that the angel said his wife was pregnant? Because he didn't do it.

COMMENT: No, he said your wife is going to conceive, because of her age and being past the time and at his age, in other words doubt and unbelief. The scriptures say he did go in unto her.

PASTOR VITALE: Does the scriptures say he went in unto his wife and then she conceived?

COMMENT: Yes.

PASTOR VITALE: Then it is not true. I am going to have to check it out because it is possible that he. . . o.k., I'm going to have to check it out. If that is what he said, then John was conceived of two human beings.

COMMENT: And he never denied that it was his son. Many years ago there was a minister who gave a teaching on the similarities between Elijah and the prophet John, in the way they dressed and their style of living, like in the wilderness, not with the normal flow of the people.

PASTOR VITALE: I know that I have said the same thing. When I thought that it was the spirit of Elijah that was in John I've said in these meetings, Well what did they do? Well, they were both holy men, their lives were consecrated to God, they both rebuked the king, I preached the same thing, and that was another question that I asked the Lord during this meditation. Well, what is it about Jesus that identifies with the spirit of Elijah? Although he did rebuke Herod, called him that fox and all that, but I think what's very important is that neither one of them had a human father. That's even more significant than saying that John rebuked the king, and with a holy man it is much more significant to say that neither one of them had a human father. I feel very good about this. I don't have.... The one thing that really did upset me was about a week where I wasn't sure whether I was praying to Jesus or Michael. I was really upset over that, but the Lord straightened that out for me, and I am praying to Jesus and then I said, Well Lord who is Michael in relationship to Jesus, and this is what the answer is at this time. Michael, and I'm telling you I don't have all the answers and I may not be using all the right words, but Elohim came as the sperm of God and He formed Himself into the first and the last Adam which is the seed of civilization, the visible civilization. Everybody o.k? The first and the last Adam together are the seed. Elohim is the sperm. Michael and Adam are the foundation of the spiritual race that will be in Jehovah's image. In human conception the male sperm joins with the female ovum so completely that the become one cell, the first cell of the new baby, and Michael and Adam, what it is looking like, is that the first Adam was the female side and the last Adam was the male side and they were destined to join so completely that they would be inseparable and in human reproduction that ovum and that sperm become so completely one, the first cell of the new baby, and then they begin in cell division so the first Adam and the last Adam, it looks like, they are supposed to join so completely so that they can begin to engage in a form of cell division and populate the earth with spiritual beings, but there is a whole big bunch of stuff missing but apparently before this permanent union took place the serpent seduced the first Adam, and it was the last Adam, Michael, who came into the world looking to get us back. I do want to say this. I did ask the Lord, Well who. . . .the only anxiety I've had over this whole thing was the week that I went through when I wasn't sure who I was praying to, and the way I dealt with it was by saying, Well whatever your name is you are the God that loves me and that I love and have been serving for all these years, and that was how I got through that. this is where I am right now. Michael is the male that is supposed to be joining with the first Adam to be the founders of the spiritual world in Jehovah's image. Michael by himself never incarnated as a whole man, it was supposed to be a whole creature, or a living beast with a mind and a spirit of the mind in it. And Elijah was the first personality with whom Michael joined, but Elijah was a personality that was raised up from an immortal man. He was not a man born of a woman, and then the next personality that Michael joined with was Elisha. Now Elisha was born of a woman, but I don't understand this completely, the only thing I have so far is that Elisha and Elijah were sent to Israel And then the third time that Michael did it. Michael did what? The third time that Michael married the personality of a man was in Jesus and Jesus was sent to go beyond Israel. He was sent to be the Savior of the whole world so it is Jesus coming to us. To us Jesus is the first Adam and the last Adam. To us who are being saved through the mediator, Jesus Christ or Christ Jesus, those of us in the world today who are being saved by the mediator, Christ Jesus, to us Jesus Christ is both the first Adam and Michael to us. Why? Because Michael is in Him. Michael was a part of the seed that was the foundation of the creature that Elohim was building. He was not a whole man. He was the spirit, and the first Adam was the mind, the last Adam was the spirit, and they have to marry a personality of a man to be a glorified man. O.k? So Michael raised Adam from the dead in the man Jesus and the resurrected first Adam and Michael married the personality of Jesus of Nazareth, and now Michael is appearing as the glorified Jesus. He added to Himself. Michael was a spirit. He married Adam, the mind, and then he married a personality so he is just appearing in another form, but to us, to the world today, Michael is appearing as Jesus because He is Jesus, Jesus is Michael. Just stop and think for a second, I've been preaching here maybe close to a year that Jesus is Adam raised from the dead, I've been preaching that for a long time. Just stop and think, what am I saying? Jesus is not only Adam raised from the dead, Jesus is also Michael from above. Jesus is not only the first Adam raised from the dead, also as a part of Him is Michael, the last Adam from above, and they are all one. Michael and Adam and Jesus and they are all one so when Jesus comes to us to raise Adam from the dead in us, I have to tell you I don't have it really clear in my head now, in view of all this who the Holy Spirit is. Then I found a scripture that said the Spirit of God. I want to know the difference between the Spirit of God and the Holy Spirit, and I know what the Spirit of Christ is, and I believe Michael is the Spirit of Christ. Christ is Adam, and Michael is the Spirit. I am saying that when we get fertilized, and I have some thoughts in my head but I am not ready to say it now, that when Adam begins to be raised from the dead in us it is Jesus coming to us as Michael. It is the same thing as saying, you are a married woman, you are wife to your husband, you are a mother to your children, you are a grandmother to your grandchildren, but it is all you. If you go to your grandchildren you are grandma, if you go to your wife, you are Mary, depends on. . . the name changes with the function so when Jesus comes to raise Adam from the dead in us it is Jesus coming as Michael. You don't have to believe it as long as you understand what I am saying. So, Jesus comes as Michael and Adam rises from the dead in us and now we, the mortal person, the personality, remember we are a tripartite being, we are the mind of Christ, and we are the carnal mind, and we are a personality. So once Adam is raised from the dead in us then we the personality we marry Michael and that's the second stage of the resurrection because Michael is above the firmament. We are really marrying the part of Jesus that's above the firmament. Jesus says, I am in heaven and I am in earth at the same time. What did He mean? He meant Adam is raised from the dead in me and he's down here in you. Adam is being raised from the dead in you, but Michael is above the heavenlies but when you marry the one from above that's when you are both in heaven and in earth.

COMMENT: I understand what you are saying, but I don't know if I believe it.

PASTOR VITALE: So, what's the problem, what don't you believe or don't you know what you don't believe?

COMMENT: I don't know, it's a whole new thing. It's like taking from what you've heard before it is completely new. I guess I have to live with it for a while.

COMMENT: I see every move of God as being Holy, He is a Holy God. I don't know why the Holy Spirit has to be dissected is what I am saying, I guess.

PASTOR VITALE: Because I believe that every time there is a change of name it is significant so there has to be a reason why it says Holy Spirit, and not the Lord Jesus. There has to be a reason why it says Michael and not the Spirit of Christ, there has to be a reason.

COMMENT: It couldn't be the whole. . . .

PASTOR VITALE: It could be but it is different than Michael and it is different than Adam and it is different than Christ so there has to be a reason why it is different in scripture. There is a message in everything that's different.

COMMENT: In your opinion could Michael have done. . . .

PASTOR VITALE: Let me say one more thing before you go on, the reason I don't believe that it is the whole thing because Jesus was inseminated by the Holy Spirit, so it can't be the Spirit of Jesus Christ. Now it could be the spirit of Elijah.

COMMENT: But it says the Holy Spirit came upon Mary?

PASTOR VITALE: But Jesus wasn't born yet so the Holy Spirit would not be the resurrected Spirit of Jesus Christ.

COMMENT: I always thought the Holy Spirit was given to Mary, the impartation of Holiness.

PASTOR VITALE: No, it was a spirit, it was a spirit that was given to her. It could not have been the spirit of Jesus Christ because Jesus wasn't glorified yet.

COMMENT: So there are two different spirits, is that right?

PASTOR VITALE: What do you mean two different spirits?

COMMENT: The glorified spirit and the Holy Spirit?

PASTOR VITALE: The whole thing is, I don't know who the Holy Spirit is. I know that the Holy Spirit came upon Mary before Jesus was even born so the Holy Spirit cannot be the Spirit of Jesus Christ which I just printed out a couple of hundred books out saying that it is. If this doesn't break my pride, I don't know what will. But it cannot be, but what it could be the glorified spirit of Elijah, but I don't know because I would have to go into the Bible and do a scan in the Old Testament for Holy Spirit and see if the Holy Spirit is spoken about before Elijah appeared, and if the Holy Spirit appeared before Elijah appears then it is not even the spirit of Elijah who is He? Is it the spirit of Elohim? Maybe it is the spirit of Elohim, I don't know.

COMMENT: .....if the scriptures say this Holy thing. . . .

PASTOR VITALE: I may be mistaken, but I think the word thing was added by the King James translation. It is just this Holy which can be translated this Holy One or this Holy Thing, just Holy.

COMMENT: In your opinion, could it have been possible when Michael fought over the personality of Moses if Moses was willing to yield and cooperate and to go on that it could have been, Jehovah's plan could have been performed then without it coming down as it has?

PASTOR VITALE: I think that if Moses cooperated he could have been glorified, but Moses was born of a woman and he could not have been Messiah because he wasn't born of a virgin.

COMMENT: But Moses was before the prophecy of the Messiah came. . . .born of a virgin.

PASTOR VITALE: Moses prophesied on Messiah himself. He said there is a prophet coming. Moses prophesied it first. Moses didn't say that Messiah would be born of a virgin, but he said that there was another prophet coming. He may have said it was greater than he, I'm not sure, but he prophesied a prophet, and in any event it had to be in the spirit, I believe that everything that happened was written before our ears ever heard it so it had to be in the spirit that Messiah would be born of a virgin. If Isaiah prophesied it, it was already in the spirit, but I do believe that if Moses had taken the victory, well we don't even know what happened to Moses, they never found his body. I think that he could have been glorified but I don't think he would have been Messiah because I think that he didn't fulfill all the prophesies that were written in heaven before Isaiah spoke them.

COMMENT: Remember in Genesis where it says the seed of the woman, I was just thinking that it was the original creation where the female side of God. . . .

PASTOR VITALE: The female side of Adam.

COMMENT: The female doesn't have a seed though.

PASTOR VITALE: The seed of the woman, you are questioning that word in the King James? Is that what you are asking me?

COMMENT: What particularly it meant, the seed that was going to be given to the woman, imparted to the woman?

PASTOR VITALE: It didn't say what was going to be imparted to her, it means the offspring of the woman, and the offspring of the serpent, and the offspring of woman. Jesus is the Son of Man. The offspring of the serpent is referring to the carnal mind, and the offspring of the woman is Christ, and Christ will bruise the carnal mind under His heel. It is the offspring of the woman, that's what it is.

COMMENT: Isn't it ironic that the Catholic church has Mary as bruising the head of the serpent that is under her feet, she is on top of the world, the redeemer of the world?

PASTOR VITALE: This is what I'm thinking right now. Both Elijah and Elisha incarnated and they had a cooperative mission, and as soon as John laid hands on Jesus there was nothing more for him to do here and he was taken from the world, and Jesus went on.

COMMENT: What about Moses? What kind of a spirit did he have, you know he went up to the mountain. . . .he saw God, something had to be within him that was immortal.

PASTOR VITALE: . . . in a temporary full stature. I believe he was caught up to full stature, not because he overcame, but because Jehovah brought him up to that high place so that he could go and challenge Pharaoh. That's the whole foundation of what we are saying about Michael fighting with the devil for the body of Moses. Moses' personality was not convinced that he wanted to go on so there is your proof right there that it was a temporary full stature because to have a permanent full stature the personality of the man has to be completely in agreement and committed and that's how we are woven together with the Mind of Christ. How can two walk together unless they are in agreement, you see? The mind of Christ is a woven garment, woven of the Spirit of God and the personality of the man and the Mind of Christ and they are woven in their together and Jesus' Christ mind unwove, unraveled. It unraveled because His own humanity was really not fully in agreement with it. If God lets me I want to look at that in the Hebrew also so the King James indicates that He was really taken against His will. He did not want to go, but Jehovah said you are the one who's called and you are coming, and then that whole account of God getting angry at him and Zipporah circumcising the child and all that, it can't possibly mean that. I have to go in and see what happened there. It wouldn't surprise me at all, I don't even know if Zipporah did it but Moses didn't want to go because Leviathan was lying over his Christ mind so it must have been Moses' mind that got circumcised in that account and Leviathan was cut off of him and he rose up into a temporary full stature, but he didn't want to go. He came under Jehovah's mind control just like the prophets of Baal came under Elijah and then once Leviathan was circumcised off of him, off of his Christ mind he obeyed Jehovah, but his heart wasn't in it. He was held, Moses' mind was held with the Spirit of Jehovah. You see the whole church and the whole world, God help us, because except for a very few of us, we are very naive about who and what God is and about who and what is about to come to pass on the earth. We are going to see illegal criminal mortals totally possessing the mind of people and making them do what ever they want them to do, but we are also going to see Jehovah through the Sons of God totally possessing the minds of people, and they are going to do what ever He wants them to do. That is what happened to the prophets of Baal on Mount Carmel. We are just preschool. I used to get upset about it. I am working on not getting upset about it, and I am understanding more and more that people are just who they are and they really can't do any more than they can do, most of them are doing the best they can and even if they are doing the best they can they're so hindered by Satan and Leviathan, and I am not justifying their sins. I am saying that it is their condition. I liken them to children, I've had child, I have a daughter, and until such time as Jesus comes and takes them by the hand and makes them do what is in their best interest to do they are not going to do it. It is just as simple as that. It is hard because you see adult human beings, successful in this world, and it is really hard to see that they are spiritual infants. They are spiritual infants that are absolutely refusing to clean their room, and they will never do it until daddy comes and makes them do it. That's what they are, and He's coming. The good news is that He's coming to make them do it. What I am saying is so radical compared to what the church preaches, but the whole world except for a very few of us are in for a tremendous surprise when the Lord reveals Himself in His true nature because He is fierce judgment from above, he's fierce, fierce judgment from above and His wrath is again sin and everybody, all the church is in for the most incredible surprise. I've told you this before and I'll tell you again, the issue is that Jesus moves, the Spirit of Christ moves through human beings and when He moves against His church He will only move through perfect human beings. He will not send a mortal man to force anything upon another mortal man. We are too vulnerable to damage that man, aside from the fact that we don't have the power to do it. Our own sin, the Lord just corrected me on that, I've said that a lot and the Lord just corrected me, it is not even that a mortal man cannot violate another mortal man, we simply don't have the power to do it, and the tendency of mortal man when they are sent and unconsciously or consciously realize that they don't have the power to do the job (End of tape)

Tape 2

And when their sin nature tries to make someone do what's best for them, you damage the human spirit where Christ is being formed, see. So, we just don't have the power to do it, and we won't have the power to do it until we have defeated our own sin nature. That is the time that we will have the power. So, Jesus is putting a lot of effort. . . .of course, He is God, you know. He's working with everybody at once, and I can't even say that He is putting most of his efforts into those who are in the race for standing up. Even that is not true because he's full well able to having a relationship with and to be blessing and helping all of the people who are calling upon His name in a spirit of faith for help. He is not taking anything away from anybody to raise us up. He is an energy source, and the more we draw upon Him the more that will be there. When millions of Christians are drawing upon Him there will be enough energy to energize everybody. He is our sun, He is the Sun of Righteousness. We are really just waiting on Him. I don't see how as far as to the best of my knowledge, I don't have the understanding to do anything more than we are doing here so we are just waiting on Him, and maybe we are not waiting on Him. Maybe we just have to go through this procedure, we have to get this revelation, and as we continue to confess our sins and repent we are ascending. I still don't know what's going to happen. The only information I have is that Jesus didn't even know it was His time. Mary knew it was His time. He didn't even know it was His time. He didn't even know what happened to Him.

COMMENT: The scripture that says a three fold cord isn't easily broken, now we know that is referring to the law of the mind, the mind of Christ. Is that mind Jehovah, Michael and Jesus?

PASTOR VITALE: That's the way it looks right now. Jehovah, Michael and the first Adam is the altar which is in the glorified Jesus. Jehovah, Michael, and the first Adam have now married the personality of the man Jesus so the glorified man Jesus has a living thing in Him. The altar is a living thing, and that living thing is in the form of a mind, and there is a spirit in that mind, and the mind is attached to the spirit and the spirit is attached to Jehovah and they are all flowing through this man Jesus like a river, and He's glorified so He can't ever lose it. So the altar is Jehovah and the first and last Adam, and this altar is a part, this altar is married to the personality of the man Jesus and they're all one in this hour.

COMMENT: So you are equating the altar with the mind of Christ?

PASTOR VITALE: No. The mind of Christ is Adam that is rising from the dead in a mortal man. It is really Abel, at the beginning it is Abel. The mind of Christ is Adam rising from the dead. When Adam is fully risen and dominates the carnal mind, then we know that the first Adam is fully risen, and the mind of Christ. . . .that's the mind of Christ, is Adam. Christ Jesus is Adam and Michael. All of this is spelled out in the beginning of the book on Leprosy; although I've revised it somewhat. It should be available shortly, but it is all spelled out for you. Christ Jesus is Adam and Michael, and the glorified man or the New Man is Adam and Michael and Jesus, and of course Michael is connected to Jehovah.

COMMENT: Is there anything significant about the name Michael?

PASTOR VITALE: Well every name is significant. I am not sure what it means, God with you or something like that. Names are important. Michael is the one who brings God to us. The first Adam was capable of dying, but the last Adam is connected to Jehovah. It is impossible for Him to die.

COMMENT: I would like to ask a question not really related to Michael. I just wondered when the waters go through the diffraction they go up as a vapor?

PASTOR VITALE: The waters are not diffracted, the light stream is diffracted.

COMMENT: When the waters are boiled they go up?

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, but that is not diffraction.

COMMENT: How then are the waters, like the vapor goes up, doesn't that go through the same path as the light?

PASTOR VITALE: No, because the light comes down from above. The light comes down from the eternal place where Jehovah is, passes through the waters, goes down through the firmament, and then goes back up. You are talking about the waters from the black hole ascending, are you not?

COMMENT: Yes. When the abyss collapsed the waters went down. Now how did they get down? they went down the same way as the light right?

PASTOR VITALE: You mean, how did they pass through the firmament? Yes, they passed through the firmament.

COMMENT: So then when the water is boiled and it goes into a vapor and it goes back through the firmament again, now the waters won't be filled again in the abyss if they are boiled and they go into a vapor, it just stays in a vapor? Is that right?

PASTOR VITALE: Right, above the firmament. I think it always was vapor. When it descended, when it appeared through the firmament and descended it became water just like when you take water and you put it in the freezer and it becomes ice, as spirit descends it becomes more and more solid, so it went from vapor to water, to ice. Spiritually speaking, every solid part of this world can be likened to ice because it is all here because of spirit. Above the firmament it is vapor, and then when it fell beneath the firmament the scripture says, And the earth was in the water and out of the water, so we have liquids in this world. We have a spiritual world under the sea, and we have the solid world under the sea, and the earth was in the water and out of the water. What that means is that this world is both liquid and solid, but above the firmament is always gas. I know that I said waters, I know the scripture says waters, and when I questioned the Lord about it, this is the answer that I have right now. For whatever reason the scripture says waters, but when it is above the firmament it is water in the form of vapor, water vapor. Sounds right.

COMMENT: I used to dismiss a lot of my thoughts as being flighty, flights of fantasy, I don't do that any more, I try to say, Lord are you speaking to me about this, is this some kind of idea, are you trying to convey a special truth to me?

PASTOR VITALE: That's important because the Lord speaks to us through our own thoughts, and if we can't recognize that they might be God. See this is where pride separates us from God. It is a reverse pride. We are trying to be humble, but it is a reverse pride that says, Oh that thought, it can't be of God. Well, maybe God wants it to be of God. So, we have to ask Him, Was that of you? And if it wasn't of you, then I repent of pride, but was it of you? I pray that way all the time.

COMMENT: I was so concerned that Satan wasn't going to be sneaking some weird thought or idea, I was trying to protect my mind of Christ.

PASTOR VITALE: Do you hear what you are saying? You were trying to protect it yourself instead of trusting Jesus to deliver us from every thought that's not of God, expose it and deliver us.

COMMENT: But I did always say, I'm putting it on the shelf and then you brought forth that teaching about the shelf. . . .I never thought of it until just now.

PASTOR VITALE: It is sort of scary to say, I am going to listen to everything, now I have this fleece with you Jesus that I am listening to everything and my heart really just wants the truth, and I am just believing that you are going to show me and enable me to distinguish between good and evil, enable me to distinguish between Adam where all this revelation is coming from and the evil which is the carnal mind. I don't know that there is anything that we can do other than honestly make a fleece like that and then it becomes His responsibility. As long as we remain responsible towards Him, it is His responsibility to help us to divide between good and evil, that's the whole test. This is the whole issue. The doctrine is not the issue, the whole issue is that we are hoping to become beings who can distinguish between good Adam and evil, the carnal mind, and we will never do it when we are trying to do it in our own strength because when we are trying to do it in our own strength it is the carnal mind in us that's trying to decide between evil and the carnal mind, and if you think the carnal mind is going to do it the right way you are mistaken. So the whole issue is that we have to let go of it, and is that painful, letting go of your control and saying, Jesus I've been saying for 20 years that I trust you, well here it is, I am believing you that you are going to deliver me from every false doctrine. That's not so easy to do because the truth of the matter is that we trust ourselves more than we trust Him a lot of the time, and that has to be confessed as the sin of pride because we cannot do it for ourselves. I remember telling the Lord when I was desperate in my financial condition, I was just confessing to Him, Lord I have no excuse for myself, I know if my human father said to me,

SHEILA I am going to give you an income and I'm going to give you $1,000 a month or whatever and you can count on me for it, I would have complete peace because my father was trustworthy in that way. I would have complete peace that check was going to be in the mail every week, but you tell me that you are going to provide for my every need and I'm having all kinds of anxiety, I can't believe it, and I said, I'm sorry I have no excuse for myself, but I am telling you that this is the truth of my condition. I'm really scared. Where is this money going to come from? So, I just confessed it. I was never without anything. things were very tight for a long time, but I always had my rent, I always had food, I always had gas for my car, and I always had what ever clothing I needed. It might not have been my first choice of clothing, but I had shoes and I had socks and I had a coat, and I went to Nigeria and I had summer clothes. I have a lot of faith for finances at this point because He has proved Himself, but I really have to tell you that if something should happen right now and my small income should be take from me, and I had to go back to that just believing Him from week to week I would have anxiety because I haven't had to live like that in a long time, and it is just our carnal mind, that's what it is. It says, where is it going to come from? It's crazy, it makes no sense at all that you can't believe the spirit but believe the one of this world.

I am convinced that all of this revelation about Jesus and John is necessary to prepare us to stand up. I think this is a tremendous breakthrough that, that Holy Spirit descending as a dove was the mind of Christ coming down, and it was not coming out of the physical sky of this world. It was coming out of John the Baptist. I think that is a tremendous breakthrough, and I am convinced that we have to have this understanding to stand up.

COMMENT: Run that by me again. You said that the white dove was coming out of John the Baptist rather than Jesus because I thought it was Jesus.

PASTOR VITALE: The scripture says, And the Holy Spirit descended as a dove. Well, where did it descend from? It descended onto Jesus. Jesus went down under the water and the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus as a dove. Well, where did it come from? To be honest with you with all my revelation, I'm very carnal in areas that the Lord has not enlightened me in, and I really have not dealt with that, that I believe that everything is from within a man. I never thought of it. Well, where did the Holy Spirit come from? It came from John. It is so obvious that it came from John. I just never thought about it before.

COMMENT: I can't say it is obvious that it came from John, except that Jesus came to John to be baptized.

PASTOR VITALE: Well, where did it come from? It didn't come out of the physical sky, and Jesus was having an interaction with John when it happened. Where else would it come from?

COMMENT: But you said the Spirit of God has to be added to us so it haven't to initially have to come from without to come in.

PASTOR VITALE: It comes from another man. It comes from without. From without where? It doesn't come from the blue sky above, it comes from another man.

COMMENT: The sour bread dough theory, right?

PASTOR VITALE: Right, exactly.

COMMENT: I think all through the Bible, God has always used man as a means to transmit His power and His spirit.

PASTOR VITALE: Right, so that's your witness to it, but I just never thought of it. It is so simple, I just never thought of it before. And then the next verse is, And a voice came out of heaven and said, This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased. You know what I believe about that? It is that when John the Baptist laid hands on Jesus the mind of Christ was imparted to Jesus, and now the Father dwells in the mind of Christ, or was it Michael dwelling in the mind of Christ? I don't know. I am all confused, but the voice that said, This is my beloved son came out of the mind that had just been imparted to Jesus. It was as if to say, The operation was successful, I'm here, I'm in the man Jesus, Jesus obeyed me, He presented Himself to John, John obeyed Me, even though he saw a spirit that he wanted to bless him he blessed that spirit, the mind of Christ was imparted to Jesus, and the Father spoke out of this newly imparted mind of Christ, and said this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased, I'm here, it's been accomplished. Isn't that exciting?

COMMENT: I entertained the thought that it was Michael.

PASTOR VITALE: I think it was Michael too because, now remember there is a difference between Jehovah, our Father, the eternal God, and the Fathers. Now I've known that for years, I just didn't understand it. When a man dies, we are not gathered to Jehovah. We are gathered to the Fathers, and it's Adam and Michael, and we just had this in the recent studies in II Kings 2, and the king called Elisha our father. They were the father of Israel. It is tradition in Israel that when you are anointed with power from God, we know when you have Adam and Michael in you, you are a father to Israel so if it says this is my beloved son it means there was a father speaking. It doesn't necessarily mean Jehovah. It means the fathers of the human race, Michael and Adam, and that was Michael speaking I believe.

COMMENT: So in effect what you are saying is that we are spiritually contagious, what ever we have within us is going to come off on somebody else?

PASTOR VITALE: Absolutely, absolutely contagious. We are very dangerous to this whole world, and that is why Satan is really trying to do as much damage as she can to us. We are very dangerous, and I've said a long time ago that Jesus is invading this world as a virus invades a human body, and the end of His invasion is that this world will be destroyed and the serpent and Satan and Leviathan and the devil know it, and this is the foundation for such a hatred for Christians.

COMMENT: So we don't even have to be aware of what's happening because the Spirit of God just moves through us unbeknown to us many times.

PASTOR VITALE: Well, that's true, but be careful with that statement. Let me just caution you that we are very responsible for what comes out of our mind, and yes the Christ mind in us will bypass our consciousness, but only temporarily. The maturation process that's going on in us is directed toward us being privy to everything that Christ does through us. The ultimate goal of Christ in our life is that our personality should be aware of everything and in agreement with everything that He does so in our transitional stage while we are growing up on occasion He makes a decision to bypass our conscious mind, but it is only temporary. We are being trained to be heads of state, and eventually we will have to understand everything that He is doing.

COMMENT: So we are not supposed to be silent partners?

PASTOR VITALE: We are supposed to be active partners, but it is possible that something is happening at this moment that Christ in you makes a decision that you are not able to understand it now, you won't be able to deal with it now, there is no time to talk to you about it now, whatever His motive is He may make a decision to bypass your consciousness today, but that is not ideal. The idea situation that He is trying to perfect in us is that we are fully conscious partners with God, and in full agreement with Him, you see. He wants to bring our personality to such a high level of righteous thinking that we are in full agreement, not lip service, but that we fully believe as He believes.

COMMENT: I feel the Spirit of God just said to me, a witness can never be silent.

PASTOR VITALE: It is very exciting to be co-workers with God, isn't there a scripture that calls us co-workers with God? I don't know whether I just heard that preached or it is actual....(End of tape)


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