SCIENCE & SPIRITUALITY
The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For
Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By
The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.
While you were praying, the Lord was speaking to me about traveling in the spirit, and I am so excited because I have been asking Him for years, "When we travel in the spirit, does this flesh body go? Or does just our soul go? If just our soul goes, what happens to the body?" I have been asking Him this for years.
He just spoke to me, and He told me that this flesh body does not go. This flesh body does not go, this flesh body stays right where it is, that the soul travels, and it is witchcraft that we can travel in fallen Adam. It is witchcraft, by the spirit of witchcraft. Or we can travel in Christ by the spirit of the Father, but to travel in Christ you have to have the soul of Christ.
Not every believer has the soul of Christ. They have the Holy Spirit which is the spirit of the Father. They do not have the soul or the actual body of Christ in them.
COMMENT: What is the soul of Christ?
PASTOR VITALE: The soul of Christ is what you get when your human spirit is fertilized, and Christ starts to be formed in you.
COMMENT: What I have heard is the soul is the mind, will, and emotions. Is this the mind, will, and emotions of Christ?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, but we are getting a whole new soul. When Christ is conceived in you, for a season you have two souls. Your fallen adamic soul and your soul of Christ. It is the soul that travels, and in fallen Adam it is witchcraft. It is ungodly, and there is a whole organization out in the world called Eckenkar. They are an occult organization, and they practice and teach soul travel, but it is the fallen adamic soul travel.
That is why so few believers travel in the spirit today because it is not a gift that comes with the Holy Spirit. It is a manifestation of the life of the soul of Christ. He has to be to a certain degree of maturity before He starts to fly. Just like a natural baby usually does not walk before nine months, any where from nine to fourteen months. A human baby walks...well, there are many believers pregnant with Christ today, His soul is being formed in them, but He is not old enough to fly in the spirit yet.
COMMENT: That is all the dreams I have had of flying. It is flying in the spirit.
PASTOR VITALE: Of flying in the spirit? Yes, it is flying in the spirit. The Lord says it is going to start as soon as the soul of the body of Christ in us, which is our celestial body....Paul talks about a terrestrial body and a celestial body. Most people think, I always thought....
COMMENT: A terrestrial body can be translated though, right?
PASTOR VITALE: Well, wait a minute. Let me tell you what the Lord told me. The Lord told me that everybody thinks that the terrestrial body is this flesh and the celestial body is the soul, but He said that is not true. The terrestrial body is the soul of fallen Adam. It is made of the earth, and the celestial body is the soul of Christ and God. He has been showing me these last few weeks that He almost never deals with this flesh body in the Scripture. The reason He almost never deals with it is that this flesh body is a prison house. He does not deal with it, it is a prison house.
We talk about that on Tape #8. The terrestrial body is the fallen adamic soul, and the celestial body is the Christ soul. Soul travel is in Christ, is in that of the body of Christ, and that is why you do not hear about it today, because He is not old enough to fly in the believers, but it is coming soon in those in whom Christ is being formed. Those first few, first fruits are going to start flying in His spirit, and the soul travel in Christ is going to be starting real soon.
The body does not go, this flesh body does not go. At one point when I was questioning Him, I was saying "Well, Lord if the flesh body does not go, what if you send someone to minister, and they are gone five hours? What happens to the body? Does it just go into a trance, does it just lay there, what happens to the flesh body if it does not go?"
He just told me that soul travel is outside of the realm of time. This human body, we could just close our eyes for a minute or five minutes. It could look like we are taking a catnap, and we could be gone for five weeks. Our celestial body could spend five weeks some place else, and when we come back into this body it will be like only five minutes passed by.
COMMENT: Actually in the realm of time it was five weeks?
PASTOR VITALE: We could spend five weeks in another place, but as far as this body is concerned it will only be five minutes, because I used to say "Lord, we travel and we go away for five weeks. What happens to the body? It needs to be fed, it needs to eliminate. OK? What happens to the body." He said that soul travel is outside the human body. It is just like a few minutes for the human body.
It is outside the realm of time. The Lord keeps giving me examples. I am going to give you another example. He keeps giving me examples, science fiction examples, and I have been severely criticized for this. For years now, when the Lord teaches me spiritual things He uses science fiction as an example because there is no Godly example. Just in case I put this on tape, anyone listening to it, science fiction is the counterfeit. It is the counterfeit of Jesus Christ's reality.
I know I saw a Star Trek picture where they shot out of the realm of time, and they came back to the 1960's, the whole Star Trek fleet. They were walking around, and they were doing whatever they were doing, and they were there for a few weeks. When they returned to their ship, it was only like a second had passed.
COMMENT: I have a question. What about the ones who have been translated, like the man who was translated, car and all. He had seven or eight hours and said "Lord I cannot make it," and the Lord got him home in a half an hour. He translated him, two people and a car.
PASTOR VITALE: Well, I guess God can do anything. I do not know the answer to that question. I believe that God can do anything, but the idea...
COMMENT: Do you believe that happened?
PASTOR VITALE: I believe it happened, but I believe the ideal that God is bringing us to is something greater than that, but I believe He can do anything He wants.
COMMENT: Then Philip was actually translated, right?
PASTOR VITALE: I think it was just the soul of Christ in him.
COMMENT: What about the men that left their body? Well, that was soul travel, because some did.
PASTOR VITALE: Some did...
COMMENT: Then the one like XXX XXXXX left his body and, he said he had to kind of go like this and move his body around. He left his body for hours, and he was lying on the bed. I do not now how long it was. He said when he came back into his body, he was aware that he left his body and that his body was like this, and he was lying on the bed. He was like "wow." His body was a little...it felt a little different when he came back.
PASTOR VITALE: He did not look at a clock and not know how long that body was lying there?
COMMENT: He knew that he was flying because he could even see that he was above Texas. He could see all below him. He saw Texas.
PASTOR VITALE: I heard that testimony from XXXX XXXX, a testimony that he was flying and he could see all the cities below him.
COMMENT: He saw...I think he went to Texas. I do not know if he was in Texas when this had happened, he flew over seas, he went up above Sweden, and he said he saw the whole country of Sweden.
PASTOR VITALE: Praise the Lord.
COMMENT: He knew where he was, he saw it, he flew in the spirit, and he did leave his body. It happened when he was pretty young, but he talks all about it. He said when he came back he was a little stiff. He felt it. I do not know how long he was out of it.
PASTOR VITALE: Well, it could not have been that long because the body needs food, and it needs to eliminate. Maybe it was a couple of hours or whatever, but I believe what the Lord just told me that stiffness that he felt, it was not that the body was stiff from lying there because we sleep for eight, ten hours and our bodies are not stiff.
COMMENT: Yes, but our spirit is still in it or his spirit.
PASTOR VITALE: What the Lord just told me is the stiffness was him coming back into the body and having to get used to walking around in this dense flesh again.
COMMENT: I believe that. I believe that.
PASTOR VITALE: That is what it was. The Lord just told me that. It was not that the body was stiff.
COMMENT: The body was not dead.
PASTOR VITALE: No, the body was not dead.
COMMENT: There had to be spirit in it. Right?
PASTOR VITALE: Well, the Scripture says there is a string, a golden string, that attaches us to the body when we leave it, and it keeps the body alive. It is a spiritual mystery. It is in Ecclesiastes.
COMMENT: What? Does the golden string, if we leave our body.... you are only talking about flying in the spirit of Christ right? That it will say....
PASTOR VITALE: It happens in the occult also. There has to be a connection between the soul and the body to keep the body alive and to keep the soul alive. That connection is made.
COMMENT: The soul could leave the body?
PASTOR VITALE: If it is fallen adamic, it is occultish. In Christ, if God lets you, it is legal. The soul leaves the body, but it has roots in the body. There is never a total separation.
COMMENT: Like when the one who said he was turning off his light, and they said, "Would you go preach?" he said, "Yes," and he went. His body was still there.
PASTOR VITALE: His body was still there.
COMMENT: Standing up? With his hand like that?
PASTOR VITALE: It was outside the realm of time. For his body, it was only a second. For his soul, it was seven hours. For his body, it was only a second.
COMMENT: Wow. That is hard to understand.
PASTOR VITALE: We could talk about it another time, but that is what all the scientists say. Anyone, any religious person who wants to rebuke me for listening to scientists, I am sorry, but God uses everything. He has given me information from psychiatrists, information from scientists, and He has taken all this information and put it in my head, and taught me all kinds of exciting things.
This world system is based on physical principals, and scientists do understand a lot of physical principals, and this is exactly what they say. When you shoot out from the realm of time, your body does not age at all. Here is one more example. Just one more example, that they will tell you if they send an astronaut to a planet that is far away, on a 30-year trip, by the time he gets back it will be 300 years gone by on the earth.
COMMENT: Wow. You mean if he went up there for 30 years, he could live longer than anyone else?
PASTOR VITALE: Right. He would come back to the earth finding out that 300 years had passed, finding out that his wife was dead, his kids were dead, that the whole society had changed, and he did not know anybody, because space is outside of the realm of time. Spent 30 years in space and all this time had passed down here. In the realm of God's spirit, it is the exact opposite.
COMMENT: Do scientists want to do that so they can live out there for years?
PASTOR VITALE: I do not know, XXXX, but in the realm of God's spirit, it is the opposite. I am getting in over my head. Go ahead and play. Because I have seen it both ways. I have heard that kind of story, and then in the Star Trek movies it shows you they shoot out of orbit, and they spend three or four weeks on the planet earth in1968, and they came back in the ship, and it was like they were gone for a second.
COMMENT: If somebody went out in the space, if it was 30 years, what if they went out for six months? How many years would go by here?
PASTOR VITALE: I do not know. Even the 300 years may not be right, but I have heard it two different ways.
COMMENT: I do not understand.
PASTOR VITALE: Well, another time.
COMMENT: If they went like six months, it would be only six months?
PASTOR VITALE: I do not know the figures XXXX, I am not a scientist.
COMMENT: Well, the 30 years and 300 years.
PASTOR VITALE: Well, 300 might not be the right figure, but I have heard it that when they come back their generation is completely dead. The generation is completely dead. I have heard it that way, and then I have heard it the other way. That when they shoot out....well, maybe it is two different principals. I am no scientist. I do not know. I am just so excited that the Lord just spoke to me, because if He is speaking to me about that, it is time to travel in the spirit. It is going to be real soon.
Because I was just saying to Him, "Lord, XXXX and I would both like to travel," and we were both saying that the Lord has not provided any money to travel. He must be getting several ministers ready to travel in the spirit. There has not been any money to travel. Of this group, I know there are a lot of ministers out there traveling.
COMMENT: I know.
PASTOR VITALE: Now we are getting into supernatural things. He fixed my car supernaturally. I am just excited that He explained that to me and He answered me. I have been asking Him for years. The body does not go except in a special instance like that. That was a different situation.
COMMENT: Right. It was like he could not go any further because his body was....
PASTOR VITALE: That was a different circumstance. This is talking about going out to minister.
COMMENT: On a regular basis?
PASTOR VITALE: Right. What good would it have done for God to send him home without his body or without his car. It was a totally different circumstance, but, ideally, the body is not going to go.
COMMENT: Is that not something, how he cried out to God and said, "Lord I cannot go any further." It was because of his body. He was gone like 20 hours and said, "Lord I cannot go any more."
PASTOR VITALE: Well, it must have been true. It must have been true that he could not go any further. For God to do that, it must have been true that he could not go any further.
COMMENT: That means God will do that if need be.
PASTOR VITALE: It has been my experience that He only does supernatural things when the natural totally fails. That has been my experience. Even with infirmity, most people that can be healed by the doctors, He lets them go to the doctors. He just heals the unhealable. He is in the business of miracles.
I do not see anyone coming out to breakfast and seeing food appear on their table. I have heard testimonies about it, and it is always people that really did not have the money to buy it. Or I heard that testimony that during a power failure after a hurricane in the height of summer where all the food was being spoiled in the freezer, and this woman was on welfare and she really... if all that meat went she could have never ever replaced it, and her freezer never defrosted in the height of a heat wave. He preserved her food.
He only does it when the natural means fail. He is overdrive, He kicks in when the natural means fail. When this world system fails, we are to know that He is going to be there in great power. If the economy of this nation fails, He is going to be there in great power providing our needs. If the crops fail, the food is going to appear. It is not going to happen until it is a crisis, but when the crisis comes He is going to do it. Hallelujah.
The Lord just gave me the explanation as to the difference between the astronaut who came back and found that his whole generation was dead, which means time had passed him by, and the situation in Star Trek, for example, where they were in another time for several weeks and came back and found out that only a minute had passed.
Now this is what the Lord tells me is the difference. Space travel and soul travel are outside the realm of time. Space travel....in space travel, you take your body with you. Whatever you take with you is outside of the realm of time and not being affected by time. When you take your body with you, you take your whole being, body, soul, and spirit into outer space, and it is not affected by the realm of time. When you come back you find that the world system has passed you by, and that is the natural. The natural is the mirror image of the spiritual. In soul travel, in Christ, you do not take your body with you. You just take your soul with you, and the exact opposite effect is had upon you.
When you come back you find out that you have just been gone a couple of seconds or for a minute. I have heard varying testimonies. Some say a couple of minutes, but most say that it is just a split second that your soul left your body. You could be gone for two months, six months, a year, and your soul comes back into your body. When your soul comes back into the realm of time, you have lost no time so far as your natural body is concerned. when you take your whole being, including your body, and go into outer space, that is the natural, the exact opposite of the spiritual.
You come back from a trip to outer space, you do not only find that one second is gone, you can find that centuries have gone by. I am not a scientist, I do not know the actual figures. I have been told, and I believe it is documented scientifically that if a man was traveling in space long enough to get to another planet, by the time he came back, his whole generation would be gone.
The natural is the opposite of the.... space travel or travel outside the realm of time has one reaction in the natural and it has another in the spiritual. The flesh lusts against the spirit, and the spirit lusts against the flesh. There are as opposite as black and white. I will say it one more time for the tape.
In space travel, when you take your whole body with you, time passes you by, even to the extent of your whole generation passes away. When you leave your body in the realm of time, and you travel just by your soul, in Christ Jesus, when you come back to your body only a couple of seconds, if more than one second, passed by. Glory to God. Hallelujah.